July 3, 2024 • 34 mins
Christopher Luxon joined Kerre Woodham for an hour of talkback, taking questions from listeners and delving into their plans for the upcoming months.
The Prime Minister says our housing development has been running like it's 1975.
The Housing Minister is today announcing planning changes agreed by Cabinet in an effort to address the housing crisis.
It will reform council powers on urban boundaries, liberalise planning, and require councils to plan for 30-years of growth.
Christopher Luxon told Kerre Woodham that he recently opened a great build-to rent-development in Auckland's Sylvia Park.
He says we've ended up in a crisis because we haven't evolved laws to unlock those kinds of developments, or to encourage investment in build to rent programmes.
With politics heating up all over the world, Luxon is keeping his thoughts about major overseas elections to himself.
Democrat US President Joe Biden and former Republican President Donald Trump are facing off again on the 2024 election campaign trail.
Meanwhile, people vote today in the UK on whether to support Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's Conservatives or flip to Labour and Keir Starmer.
Luxon told Kerre he can work with either Biden or Trump.
He says it's his job to advance New Zealand's interests, and he will do the same in the UK with Sunak or Starmer.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry wood of morning's podcast from
news Talk, said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talk said B. It is seven past ten, Carrie
Woodham and the Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon with you through
until what Christopher Luxon will be with us till eleven,
and I will be with you through until Middays. So
lots to talk about. Did you know Doug and Trish Mackay?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, look, I know Doug really well, and he's a
great man. It's a great family and it's just an
absolutely tragic set of circumstances and the family will be
in huge shock and I think all our thoughts and
prayers are with them because they're just top people.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, that's what I've heard too. Yeah, really awesome, very
very sorry about that. Now you've got Chris Bishop about
to make an announcement which seems to have already been
made in the Herald, and he's talked to Mike Coskin
about about the need for building more homes and we
have to. I mean, that's just the root of many
of our social ills, is the fact that there aren't
enough homes for young people, aren't enough homes for social housing.
(01:06):
But is there's got to be I mean just look
out there. Some of those apartment buildings are just appalling,
and a lot of our arable land has been taken
for developments.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Look, I mean the way I look at it is lot.
Just zoom out and say you've got a country the
same size as Japan. You got the country the same
size as the UK, right in terms of land size.
But we've got a lot these people, and yet we've
got more expensive houses. And so the whole problem we've
got in New Zealand is actually a supply side problem,
right we are. It's not a demand problem. It's actually
a supply problem that we've got because we don't build
(01:40):
enough new houses. You can't buy one at an affordable prices,
so you end up renting one. Then we haven't had
enough rental property, so you can't rent one, so you
end up on a state house or a social house waitlist.
And then if you can't get a social house, you
end up actually in emergency housing. That's kind of how
those four things are all linked. And the four components
of housing actually have the same problem, which is supply problem.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And we get the idea of building up, but they've
got to be done with community spaces, correct green spaces.
So how do you force developers to do that to
build livable spaces.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah, Well, what Chris is saying is, look, we have
to densify our cities, particularly around big transport hubs. If
you take a city of the scale and size of
Auckland and you look at it comparably to say Brisbane
or even parts of Sydney, you know, subparts of Sydney,
you know, what you've done is densify over transport hubs.
And if you go out to you know, Chris and
(02:30):
I recently actually opened a build to rent facility, yes,
out of Sylvia part Residio, and like, honestly, go there.
It's a fantastic development, right, We're actually people get long
term rentals with fantastic amenities, great gardens, great spaces, great rooftops, gymnasiums, walking.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Soviet part to build teen around Auckland.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, that's what we want to do. But in fairness,
what's happened is the reason we've ended up in this
problem is that we've been running the country like it's
nineteen seventy five and we haven't actually evolved our laws
to enable developments like that to happen. We haven't encouraged
investors to go off and invest in something like a
build to rent proper program. Now, build to rent is
just one thing that we can do around getting more
(03:10):
rental properties into the market. The reasons we did the
bright line tests and the introsductibility is to make sure
we keep that private landlord market open as well. And
there's more that we've got to do in what Chris
is announcing today is actually thinking about how do we
actually build more houses and make it more affordable for
people to own. Now there's a whole bunch of things
in that space as well, Like our building products are
(03:31):
really expensive in New Zealand. It cost us fifty percent
more to build a house in this country than it
does in Australia. And it turns out we can't access
building products that are approved for use in America or
the UK, or Australia or Singapore other countries that we
would respect those jurisdictions, and as a result, our own
building products are very expensive. So that's one little thing that.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
You've got to do.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You've got to work on as well. But what Chris
is saying is, look, big cities, Tier one, tier two
cities should actually be very clear like other countries do
all around the world, to say we are rezoning land
that actually will be parked for residential development over the
next thirty years, whereas in New Zealand it's tended to
be exaggerate a bit. But it's been a bit ad
hoc because you have a farm that then gets rezoned,
(04:13):
the price goes up fifteen percent as it gets into
residential subdivisions and it happens in add hoc places across
the city and it's not planned development as such. So yes,
we've got to expand out on the city limits. We've
got to protect the productive lands for sure and the
growers both well. We can I mean our top five
percent of land we can certainly protect very strongly. That's
very productive growing lands, and I think we can do
(04:35):
that as well as obviously expand the piece. But you've
got to look at places like Pammua where we've got
big potential transport hubs and you say that's a good
place to densify and put high rises into us. We've
seen in parts of Sydney over the years as well.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
We will go. There's lots to cover. There's been much
and you have been busy, we've been busy. There's been
a lot grown under yours.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Mid We've got a lot to do to get the
country sorted though.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, well, you know, making a start and at least
whether people agree with you or not, they can see
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, and I'm trying to be transparent about it. So
I have these quarterly plans and I'm being sort of
foreshadowing in the next thirteen weeks, the next three months,
what is our government focused on to try and get something.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I did love the way you put some things in there,
like I would like some things I've already done, so
you can cross them off and it makes you feel better.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
About your lisf that's how you do you to do
And it looked a bit like Q.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Your Q three was a bit like that. It's like,
take cabinet decisions. Yeah, well yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But they're actually quite important because if you think about
a government, you're trying to make sure inside you actually
all agreed on the course of action. And in a
coalition government, I think it's even more important that you're
aligned because if you don't get it sorted inside and
agree and actually have had the robust discussions with officials
and others and advice about is this the right thing
to be doing? That actually is quite important, So it's
(05:55):
not not meant to be frivolous at all, but just
highlighting that. You know, if you think about we put
a whole bunch of things in the first one hundred
days around tackling gangs. Well over the last six months,
that led just of me goes through several readings, becomes
a law which will get past in August September. The
police can sult operationalizing in October November.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, so basically that's two things on your list you
can cross off, which is really only one. But that's
the way I do listen to and that way it's
less daunting, actually, Craig, is a question about gangs. Craig,
good morning to you.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Good morning mister Lux and thank you for your time
with the pet flow that you're bringing in truit here.
And then I'll hang up and listen to your answer.
Does the Bill of Rights have to be changed for
you to implement this? And regardless of that, what's to
stop future government from banning and Sydney as such as
(06:46):
there an eightist government such as the Valies are wearing
the uniform down the street. Yeah, I'll let you answer.
I'll hang up so I can hear you.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Thank you, Craig, thank you for one question. And look
what we're doing here is we just want to crank
the pressure up on gangs. Gangs have grown fifty one percent,
we've out a thirty percent growth and violent crime, and
they've been big drivers of a lot of that. We
want that gang life to be really unattractive for young people,
and so we've taken the laws that we've seen in
Western Australia, which have actually been implemented by a labor
premier very successful one, and have been very successful banning
(07:22):
gang patches. We already do it in the public buildings
like the hospitals and court rooms and other government buildings,
and we're expanding that out to public pressure because that's
about intimidation. So in terms of Bill of Rights, there's
always a Bill of Rights assessment about legislation that's passed,
but it's ultimately up for a government to say okay,
(07:42):
even if there's a what's called a bora negative Section
seven report, that can still fire ahead and actually make
that decision if it thinks it's in the interest of
New Zealand, doesn't We do.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
But what is a policeman in Portugy going to do
when there are twenty gang members gathered around here mustache?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And that's a question I've been asked a lot, and
police themselves have said, look, we will find the way
to operationalize that. It may be that you actually take
note of those individuals and you go follow up afterwards,
and there'll be a whole bunch of things that they
can do operationally to make sure that that policy is enforced.
But I just say to you, go look at Australia
and we've taken this idea out of there, out of Queensland,
(08:17):
out of West Australia. We've been a huge focus on
gangs and they very big organized crime biky gangs over there,
and this works. So and why wouldn't we try it? Frankly,
because I'm over it. I mean, we're all sick of
it and we can keep banging on and talking about it,
or we can try some stuff and you know it works.
It may not work, but who cares, We're going to
do that.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
We also have to accept that if there are young
people who find gang life more acceptable than joining the community,
there's something wrong with the community as well.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, and I think you know there's two parts of this, right.
We're putting pressure on gangs to say, hey, listen, you
want all the rights of being a key, but you're
not prepared to take the responsibilities. You cause impedal huge
amounts of pain and suffering across the New Zealand population,
across your fellow citizens, and that's not right. So we
are going to ban the game patches. We're giving police
the powers to break gangs up from associating with each other,
(09:06):
and we're also cracking down on the illegal guns through
fire and prohibition orders with them. And we're making gang
membership and aggravating our factor and sentencing right. So that's
the suite of gang laws that will be passed in
August September and now be the law of the land
for the police to now operationalize. But that's what we
have to do with make that attractive.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
On the other hand, we also have to do what
we call social investment, and we have to work at
the problems that are actually the root causes of a
lot of our social challenges in New Zealand are through
something called social investment, and that's why you saw us
in the last few weeks. It's technical, but we created
what's called a central government agency called the Social Investment Agency,
which is taking Bill English as thinking about those really
(09:45):
hard and tractable social problems and trying to find really
innovative solutions to them and getting often community organizations developed
that solution, rather than government sitting in the bureaucracy in
Wellington trying to dream it up.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
News Talks said, be Prime Minister Christopher Luxon taking your
question the fairies, the fairies, the fairies, Ben, You've got
a question about the fairies.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Yeah, we shouldn't a vestigating did Onceston Peter sign off
the two theories of the same size as we already
cad and then following this demise in twenty twenty that
labored them increased the size of those theories. We'll foot
giving the costings on the infrastructure upgread.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I mean I can't answer as to what was done
back in twenty seventeen. I just don't have that detail
with me at the moment. But what I can say
is essentially again take a step back. What happened here
was there was a seven hundred and fifty million dollar
investment planned for the fery upgrades for two new ferries,
and then what happened was the project then continued to
blow out to three point two billion dollars and actually
(10:47):
there was no end in sight actually as to where
that was going.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Was that on them?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, So what happened. What happened was because the firies
that were selected were quite unusual and special from what's
available around the world and custom built for New Zealand
or custom built for this project. They I think we're
about forty meters longer and ten meters wide and all
of that then necessitated massive upgrades to port infrastructure in
Picton and also in Wellington. So by the time we
(11:13):
looked at the three point two billion dollars, I think
only twenty percent of it was actually the boats and
eighty percent was actually all the enabling infrastructure needed to
support the boats. And then there were questions about actually
there's been a cost blowout, but there's also questions as
practically are these actually the right boats? Are they just
too big and the wrong kind of boat for the
actual task at hand. And so what we've said is, look,
(11:35):
we just can't carry on just drip feeding money in
making it a three point two billion to a five
billion dollar program and we've got a whole bunch of
challenges in New Zealand. So what we've done is we've
got money set aside. That's all good. We put a
ministerial advisory group of three people into a quick assessment
of what we actually need for the fairies and then
there will obviously be a process will come out very
shortly and talk about what we will do in that regard.
(11:56):
We need a solution, but it will be a different
solution and obviously got to be in a realm of
costs that's not as more digestible for or the country
and for the economy. At this point, we'll get the
right ships on the right piece of water and we'll
make sure that we get it set up right. But
you can't have a cost blowout with no end in
sight and then actually you know, actually getting seer expressions
(12:19):
whether these are the right practically the right sort of
boats to have on the water.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Anyway, just looking at the refresh of the Kiwi Rail
board and coming order and so forth, do you believe
that there have been board members have been elected for
their ideology as opposed to their skills.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, I won't go into that because that's for previous
governments to determine. But what I'm interested in is have
I got a board and a chair that actually can
deliver outcomes for New Zealanders. And so in the ki
We Rail it's fear to say, you know, we lost
a lot of confidence actually that this project was well
managed and other things. And so the chair has retired
and we are refreshing the board on health on kok
(12:56):
and Goora. You know, we had concerns about that organizations
we've talked about and so we have replaced the chair
and refreshed the board there. We want to turn around
planned by.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
The end of the year.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Why did he get the pay it?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, that will be an employment contract between the CEO
and the board. What I do as government is my
responsibility is to appoint the board, who are what are
called the governors of that organization. The management is then
selected by those governors.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So if it was smart enough, and if I was
smart enough to say, if there was a change of
boss at news talks, the'd be and they didn't like
the cut of my jib, I should negotiate that. Even
though he wants me gone, I want to be paid
out my contract.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I'm sure you have a great contract, Harry, and they
should pay you more anyode really good?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Ye should?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You should should really hit them up hard for that.
But no, I mean the dealer is. There will be
different details of employment contracts that individuals have with their boards.
But if you're sitting in my position, you know Ko's
are forty five billion dollar enterprise. I think there's something
like seventy five thousand people of families involved there. We
know it's been You've got financial management challenges, you've got
asset management challenges, and very poor consultation with communities and
(14:00):
other things.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
And we want it.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
We want to step change the performance there because we
know we need to build, as we talked about before,
more social houses. But actually I want to know that
every dollar I put into an organization is going to
be well run and well managed. I'm not wanting to
put good money after bad strategy or bad management.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Are you hann Good morning to you, Hi, Gerrie Homer's selection.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
How you guys, good your hunt? How are you going?
Speaker 6 (14:21):
I'm very good things My wife she's the first year
nurse now in factice and you guys campaigns on paying
nurses student learns up to four and a half thousand
a year, so you know, she was in studying while
it was too keiped on one Sundary and with all
(14:42):
the other nurses speaking with her and they're saying when
it's going to come in place because a lot of
them are living to Australia, so it's want to ask, Yeah, yeah,
I'm to put that in place.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah, good, good question your hands. I mean the first
thing is your wife's incredible, because our nurses are amazing.
And what's been actually really encouraging is that we over
the last six months have recruited several I think we've
got a couple fifteen hundred to two thousand more nurses
actually in the system, which is actually really good. I
know it's still imperfect. I know a healthcare system is complex,
and there's still lots more for us to do, but
(15:15):
we've made good progress on the recruitment with respect to
what we were proposing, which was the bonding program, which
was to say, if you go and prepared to study
as a nurse, actually we would reimburse your fees over
that if you stayed in the system for five years
or more. That's something that Shane Retti is still working through.
So we'll have more to say about that, hopefully in
the next week while. But we know we've got a
(15:37):
homegrow as many nurses doctors as we possibly can. We've
still got our immigration settings really open for international nurses
and doctors. We are making progress on the numbers and
the recruitment just in the last six months. More to
do obviously, it's not even up and down the system
in terms of the different hospitals and different situations people
are in. But yeah, there's more work for us to
do in that space.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Shame.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
We'll have more to seavocgeally.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So what kind of timeframes because Farmac happened very quickly.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, Farmac was a big one because we had to
work through a different process as to what was the
better way to deliver that that commitment that we made.
And I know he's I know it's on his work plan.
I just can't give you a precise time frame on
that at this point.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Not six months, not three years.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Oh well, we want to do it, obviously, I've got
in this term clearly, But it's just that what we're
trying to do is just march through quarter by quarter
to make sure we're doing the must do critical stuff
and you know, he's done a lot of great work,
for example on getting sixteen point seven billion dollars into
the healthcare system, and of the last budget, we had
to find the two billion almost in farmat core funding,
(16:39):
and then we wanted to, you know, get the six
hundred million with the fifty four cancer medicines away. So
it's not to say, you know, Johannes right, you know,
will come back. We are looking at that. It's just
that we're practically just trying to manage, you know what,
We're trying to land and get it done well and
delivered well. So when we do get to that, we've
got that really gripped up and well delivered.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
We talked about this in the election campaign last year.
Rebecca says, is it possible to get long term bipartisan
agreement on in for structure, health education strategies and outputs
to avoid stop starts and budget blow You talked about
that a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, I'd love to and I really would love to
try to do exactly that. And I think with our
three year cycle, the problem is things get turned off,
turned on, turned off, turned off, and nothing happens right,
and people get very frustrated about that and I'm frustrated
about that too.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You were talking about a fifty year time plane.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, so what I want is a thirty year infrastructure pipeline,
and then I want ten years for regional city deals
so that we know what's happening in a region, what
needs to happen, and then it locks up and then
it's actually doesn't matter whether I lose my job or
a mayor loses their job. That program carries on, right.
And then we have what's called a National Infrastructure Agency
that actually is coordinating that and also getting the money
(17:51):
soon's from the government. Well, that is going to happen,
So that is what we're working on.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So you've got labor on side.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well, we're working on, first of all, getting the thirty
year pipeline delivered and locked up so that it's not
just post it notes of ideas. You know, we've actually
got a lot of detail around when we want to
do structure.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Doing a bipartisan plan infrastructure plan, you would have to
have the other parties in with you at the start.
Otherwise you're just handing them a fate a compliance saying
sign that.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, the first thing is actually to just before we
can even start, you know, like, what you want to
do is go to that conversation hey saying hey, listen,
here's our innovation pipeline. You know, I'd want other parties
to react to that as the set of projects that
they think that is the right set as well. But
you've actually got to have a straw man and a
starter for ten and at the moment, what we've got,
as you've seen Auckland light Rail you know, been a
(18:39):
project for a long time, we still don't have a
route six years going two hundred and fifty million dollars,
not a single I mean, we do it really badly, right,
And so the first thing I'm trying to do is
as the government, I want to take control and say, right,
thirty year pipeline, not post it notes with ideas, but
proper projects, to find ten year city regional deals as
to what sort of is the core infrastructure in the
regions and then what's the national infrastructure agent that actually
(19:01):
works at how we finance and fund that stuff. And
it doesn't sound you know, it's actually really important stuff
because if you think about key bits of roads that
have been promised and they're not delivered, and they're promised,
they're not delivered as successive governments have had a different
view about all of that. The more that we can
get that aligned is important. Simon Watts has done a
good job on the environment because we know, as we
(19:23):
think about climate adaptation, we're going to need infrastructure that's
much more resilient. And he started that process with the
parties knowing that there will be different governments of different
colors over the next thirty to fifty years. It's going
to be different generations. There's lots of people involved in it,
so he's trying to do that in a very bipartisan
way from the beginning. But I get the frustration. I
also think that's why for your term would be a
good thing to pray.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Minister Christopher Luxon in studio Cheryl, good morning to you.
You have a question.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Good morning here, Good morning mister Luxan, good morning.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Oh well, thank you. I'm interested to understand how it
works when an MP from another coalition partner prepares a
bill that will pretty much rides roughshod over what the
National Party promised and your manifesto. I'm talking about youth
faith here, which is what's happening. So my specific question
is if there was appetite within your National Party caucase,
(20:13):
would you consider using the agree to disagree clause on
a bill to go back to the drawing board and
deliver on a commitments you've made.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Look, I mean the way that I tried to do
it was have these coalition agreements between the National Party
and ACT and National Party and New Zealand first, and
then I made New Zealand person and Act actually sign
off on each other's agreements with me in the National
Party as a result as well, and that's given us
a lot of stability and security. Otherwise you get a
lot of instability in that coalition agreement. But where we
(20:42):
have things outside of the coalition agreement, then what we
have is an ability to have agree to disagree clauses
in our agreements as well. And we've actually, i think
used two of them actually already in the first seven months.
And the things where the parties have different points of
view and we come to a very sensible, it's a
very mature, reasonable conversation to say, look, you know that
(21:02):
doesn't work for us, And here's the reason for why.
It's all pretty calm and sorted with those clauses. And
we also have these separate meetings where we have points
of tension that we have clearing what we call the
clearing house meeting in my office. Once are sitting on vaping,
I just say to you on you know, in March
we announce we want a complete ban on disposable vapes.
The second thing is that we've had a significant increase
(21:24):
in fines for sales to under eighteen's and we're putting
more restrictions on retailers. So I am actually quite concerned
about underage vaping in particular. And I think, you know
Casey Cossello in the work that she's doing that space,
and she's got more work planned towards the end of
the year in that area as well, I think is
all good right across it?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, we're right across it. We actually far preferred what
you had in your manifesto. So I'm just really curious
to know whether there's any halfway to achieving that. Maybe
a conscience vote, Yeah, well that comes forwards. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
The other thing I just say, look is if you
think there are things that we should be considering, and
you know that we do try and run these select
committee processes as laws get changed, that's a great chance
to sort of put those thoughts in. We genuinely do
take in those public submissions and stakeholder submissions really seriously
because actually that's why we go through a process where
you have a first reading of a bell, then you
(22:16):
go to a select committee where you get public submissions
and feedback. Then you go back and rewrite the law
a bit and improve it to get a second reading,
and then it obviously goes through to a third reading
and becomes a law. So I just encourage you. If
they think there's things that are missing, you know, tell
us and we'll be very upen to that. But I
do agree with you underage vaping big problem.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We talk to principles parents, and I just think some
of the measures that we've got going actually are going
to be helpful.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Banning the phone seems to have worked.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Banning phones was a classic, right, I mean, that was
an interesting one where official said we need to consult
on the hand and he said, well, no, actually we
need to do men.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Principles that were a bit empty, and now yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Mean, principles are loving it. The cyber bullyings down, the
kids are playing in the playground, and actually the kids
that I run into now. I always ask them, you know,
how's it going without the phones and schools and they
say it's actually working.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, you know, I have a question from an emailer.
The Public Service Commissioner left at the end of feb
to date has not been replaced. If you look at
the leadership of the public service, you see exactly the
same phases that we're there under labor performance of some
departments has been shocking to say the least. Does the
public service need a culture change to raise the expectation
of those working there? How is that possible with the
(23:23):
same people in charge the Yes, ministers.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Well, I'd say yes, it does need a culture change,
and that's what we are bringing to Wellington for sure.
That's why I put targets in place. That's why I
hold the Minister and the CEO jointly accountable for delivering
on those targets, and they come back to a committee
that I actually cheer on their progress on those things.
That's why we've got the quarterly action plans to focus
the public service. But I just also say I think
(23:47):
government and ministers have a big role to play. If
you're a minister of a portfolio and you don't have
clarity about what you're there to deliver in the next
three years and focus on those ends and those outcomes.
How on earth is the Public Service CEO is supposed
to just react to the waffle or the lack of
clarity they're getting from our ministers. And that's how I
felt about the previous government, that the ministers weren't directing
(24:08):
and clear about what they wanted. So, you know, if
I look at someone like Chris Bishop, you know who's
responsible for sedate housing, he's very clear that KAO has
been underperforming. We want change there. We've done a quick
review with SABIL English, We've made changes and we know
what we want to do. If I look at Louise
Upston in the social development space, we want people off
welfare and into work, so she's working really hard on obligations,
(24:31):
you know, making sure that people are checks, to make
sure that they've got to reapply for their unemployment that
actually are doing their job, which is to look for
a job. So if you don't have ministers with clarity,
then in fairness, the public service ends up implementing a
whole bunch of stuff that actually, in the absence of
clarity or in a direction, do it through the wrong stuff.
(24:51):
But having said that, we're very clear with the public servants.
You've seen us move on organizations, whether it's Health New
Zealand's getting a refresh board, KAO is getting a refresh board.
You've seen us with KiwiRail, other other entities and Crown
entities and government agencies. We continue to do that. The
Public Service commissioner role is very important to get it
right because that is the role that I want to
(25:12):
see driving a lot of that cultural shift and change,
and I want the right leader in there to do
exactly that.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
News talk z'd be the boot camps. The boot camps.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
The boot camps.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
If you're going to introduce something that hasn't worked in
the past, but you say is different and will work.
But there is some you know, pushback against the boot camps,
You've got to be clear in your communication. And I
don't really think there's been clarity around it.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Look, I mean I just say I've said in on
the sessions. As that program's been designed, it's led by
a wrong a Tamaiki. We've had inputs from Defense No
wrong a Tamaiki under the Mike Bush review and under
Karenchua's leadership and the management changes that she's made and
the staff that have been actually taken out of the
organization terrible they have but a terrible job. But we've
got a massive responsibility to her to manage that our
(25:56):
most vulnerable kids that are often hitting in the wrong direction.
And so so I'm really pleased because yeah, I get it.
You know, we've we've tried it in the past and
there were things that didn't work, particularly actually there integration,
integrated into community. That's been a big problem. But that's
why we've got police inputs, defense inputs, community organizations are
(26:17):
there from day one working with these young people on
their issues, working with their siblings, with their families. We're
taking them off the streets and out of the communities
to the community safe. But we're actually going to use
opportunities like that to try and turn those.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Where does the message get muddled with the defense Force,
with Mitchell with you, because that just takes time away
from really important stuff that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I mean, I'm sure we know what we're doing. We're
really clear on the inside. Maybe we've got to you know,
we've got to communicate it better.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
I get that.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I mean, we won't get everything right, you know, to
be brutally honest with you on that, but I tell
you we are doing it. A lot of what you're
getting is pushed back from pundits, media commentators that won't
like it, But I don't care because actually, what I
care about is those young people. What I care about
is those victims, and what I care about is actually
getting crime down in this country. And I damn it,
We're going to try something different.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
And you do have to, as you've looked at with
the gangs, you have to work with the social investment
to stop them going into the gangs as well as
the gang problem. So are you going to continue with
programs like Kotah te Fakar or that was started under
labor that does seem to have.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Worked, programs that do work, will continue to put money
towards as long as they're getting hard outcomes. And so
a good example. And I want to do a lot
more of that. And that's what we mean by social investment.
And actually I have more announcements around mental health later
on today, just so that's in that same vein the
reason we gave twenty four million dollars to I Am Hope,
gum Boot Friday was because Mike in that organization, for
(27:36):
every dollar you give them, there's about five dollars seventy.
I think of social benefit that's actually created of money
that's not being spent in the criminal justice system and
the healthcare system, in the education system with those young people.
So we have to get the money out of Wellington
and the bureaucracy. We have to power up good communication
community organizations that are often doing great work in a pocket,
(27:59):
but you actually want to hit the photocopier button and
have them do it across the whole country.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So that's a good example where we're putting money in
an organization like that, and we want to do a
lot more of that. But the quid pro quo is
pretty simple. You have to get a result. It's not
just big hearted people with good intentions doing some.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Stuff saying our boys feel more mona as a result.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, you've actually got to make sure that that is
leading to hard headed, improved outcomes.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
If you have time, could you ask and we're running out, Gosh,
this goes quickly, doesn't it. If you have time, could
you ask the PM about apprenticeships. We have two boys
looking for apprenticeships. The country needs more qualified trade workers. However,
companies aren't hiring because construction is done. The plot call
my words, Now is the time to be training, so
when the economy picks up, we have skilled workers.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Fully agree fully, and actually that was the one program
and policy out of the previous government that I respected,
which was actually the Apprenticeship Boost program, which we've kept
and we will continue to invest in that. Penny Simmons
is doing a big reach reset of sort of vocational
training to make sure we get that right. But I
agree with you, but it is challenging for construction at
the moment because the economy with all that spin, drove
(29:06):
inflation up, drove interest rates up, slowed the economy down,
and has left lead rising unemployment. That's why we're working
so hard. The number one thing I have to do
is get inflation down so I can get interest rates
down and get the economy growing again, keep people on work.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
How much inflation can you control when you've got Ukraine,
when you've got those two s, yeahthetic old men who
are battling it out for the.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Well the things of the US. Inflation breaks into two bits,
the international bit, which is actually down I think just
below two percent, So that's not our problem at the moment.
Our problem has been the domestic part, and that has
been driven by, as I said, you know, lots of
government spending last time fueling that inflation. So if we
can get that down to three percent, I know it's hard,
but it is hard for New Zealanders right now.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It's really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
It's really hard paycheck to paycheck week to week, and
I'm very conscious of that. We're very even.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
People who never would have considered themselves having to compare
cheeses or butter at the Super Bowl, they're doing so.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, I've met with families, you know, and food banks
for example, up and down the country who are never
thought that ever be there, that are there as middle
lower middle income working families.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And the social contract is that if I work hard
and pay much to get ahead, do well, I should
get ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, but we're dealing with the hangover of economic mismanagement.
And I know New Zealanders you don't alway appreciate it,
but good management and good economic management matters a lot,
because when you don't get it gripped up, you end
up causing the pain and suffering that we're all experiencing.
So we're having to go through. The good news is
you look at something like food prices that's only gone
about zero point two percent in the last twelve months.
(30:36):
Inflation's out at four that's the lowest I think it's been,
certainly food down for about five years, updown from seven
and so we've actually now got to push on get
it below three. And then when we do that, interest
rates can come down. Then the economy starts to grow
because businesses can invest in construction and development, all of
those good things.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I think a lot of tired New Zealanders want to know,
are we there yet?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I know, I know, I know, but we've had seven months.
We're trying to undo six years of bad economic management
and New Zealand. These are the lessons that we've learned
in the past. If you don't control governments, you lose
control of inflation. When you lose control of inflation, interest
rates go up. When interest rates go up, the economy
slow down, and why unemployment goes up. So it's that simple,
and that's why I've got to deal with the root
(31:16):
cause of the problem. And that's what Nicola and I
are spending most of our days trying to get you
moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It seems you're also delegating quite well. You've got a
good suite of ministers who seem to be and.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
We've got a great, I mean big job of my
job as Prime ministers to make sure I get the
right people on the right assignment with a very clear
brief and a set of expectations that I have of them.
And I think when I look across all of my portfolios,
I'm really proud of our ministers. I know they're working
really hard. We're in a turnaround mode and so we
are moving at pace and we are deliberately making decisions
(31:46):
and I know some of them are tough and they're
they're doing it fast. But it's more important that we
get a hard yes or a hard note to people
rather than mush and non decision.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
News talk said. Be well that's that really, And you're
off soon, aren't you? Yeah, Nato birday.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I've got Timaru tomorrow. Why ra are on Saturday, back
to Aukland on Sunday, a lot of reading and then
off on Monday evening to the States. And really I've
got speed dating with a bunch of US politicians across
the aisle on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What are you doing in San fran.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, Wednesday, I've got actually European leaders for they're all
in town for NATO. We have a NATO IP four meeting,
which is what I'm there for on the Thursday. And
then on Friday, I'm in San Francisco meeting with investors.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Actually want to invest here.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
In New Zealand. That's what I'm trying to do. So
everywhere I go around the world, I meet with investors
because one of the things we need, in light of
some of the conversations we've had today, is investment. And
we're actually the worst in the developed country at attracting
overseas capital to come into New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
But not just to build golf courses.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
But no, no, I like to partner, like I want
to build roads for US. Okay, right, And so we
could wait, we could wait thirty years to get State
Ioway twenty nine done, or we could actually do that
in a joint venture with private capital from pension funds
and superannuation funds from in New Zealand and from around
the world and actually get that built much quicker. Yes,
you might have to pay a toll for it, but
New Zealander say to me, I quite like my roads
(33:05):
that have been new roads that have been built. And
I pay a norminal toe if it means it much quicker.
So absolutely so an interesting Yeah. So the States is good,
good time to build that relationship and to week with others.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Do you have a preference between the two dottery old men,
the narcissist or the bumbling idiot.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
I will work with whoever the American people will deliver
as president, because my job is to advance New Zealand's
interests and I'll make those relationships work, whichever they are
or Rish you soon there again, I make it work.
That's my job, Kerrie Burriller pen, I'll make it work.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Okay. So we going to leave with Teddy swims the door.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah, he's coming to town this weekend.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
He is Are you going on Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
No, because I think I'm coming. I'm in Roirah, so
and on. But he's awesome as always, lovely to have
you in studio.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Thank you for taking the time. They always enjoy asking
the questions. So refreshing listening to mister Laxlin. Mind you,
this is an easy audience. Properly, do you go to
the hard audiences like you know, I can.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Try to go everywhere. I don't always like me, but
I've got to go everywhere to make sure I get
the message out.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Well, very nice to have you. Safe travels. You're not
hopefully traveling on that clunker.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
No, we won't. We won't push the limits and make
it go that farthest time.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Can we get a new plan?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
We're gonna work on it. I tell you we're going
to get one.
Speaker 6 (34:18):
Yep. Nice.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the carry wood of morning's podcast from
news Talk, said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talk said B. It is seven past ten, Carrie
Woodham and the Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon with you through
until what Christopher Luxon will be with us till eleven,
and I will be with you through until Middays. So
lots to talk about. Did you know Doug and Trish Mackay?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, look, I know Doug really well, and he's a
great man. It's a great family and it's just an
absolutely tragic set of circumstances and the family will be
in huge shock and I think all our thoughts and
prayers are with them because they're just top people.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, that's what I've heard too. Yeah, really awesome, very
very sorry about that. Now you've got Chris Bishop about
to make an announcement which seems to have already been
made in the Herald, and he's talked to Mike Coskin
about about the need for building more homes and we
have to. I mean, that's just the root of many
of our social ills, is the fact that there aren't
enough homes for young people, aren't enough homes for social housing.
(01:06):
But is there's got to be I mean just look
out there. Some of those apartment buildings are just appalling,
and a lot of our arable land has been taken
for developments.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Look, I mean the way I look at it is lot.
Just zoom out and say you've got a country the
same size as Japan. You got the country the same
size as the UK, right in terms of land size.
But we've got a lot these people, and yet we've
got more expensive houses. And so the whole problem we've
got in New Zealand is actually a supply side problem,
right we are. It's not a demand problem. It's actually
a supply problem that we've got because we don't build
(01:40):
enough new houses. You can't buy one at an affordable prices,
so you end up renting one. Then we haven't had
enough rental property, so you can't rent one, so you
end up on a state house or a social house waitlist.
And then if you can't get a social house, you
end up actually in emergency housing. That's kind of how
those four things are all linked. And the four components
of housing actually have the same problem, which is supply problem.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And we get the idea of building up, but they've
got to be done with community spaces, correct green spaces.
So how do you force developers to do that to
build livable spaces.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah, Well, what Chris is saying is, look, we have
to densify our cities, particularly around big transport hubs. If
you take a city of the scale and size of
Auckland and you look at it comparably to say Brisbane
or even parts of Sydney, you know, subparts of Sydney,
you know, what you've done is densify over transport hubs.
And if you go out to you know, Chris and
(02:30):
I recently actually opened a build to rent facility, yes,
out of Sylvia part Residio, and like, honestly, go there.
It's a fantastic development, right, We're actually people get long
term rentals with fantastic amenities, great gardens, great spaces, great rooftops, gymnasiums, walking.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Soviet part to build teen around Auckland.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, that's what we want to do. But in fairness,
what's happened is the reason we've ended up in this
problem is that we've been running the country like it's
nineteen seventy five and we haven't actually evolved our laws
to enable developments like that to happen. We haven't encouraged
investors to go off and invest in something like a
build to rent proper program. Now, build to rent is
just one thing that we can do around getting more
(03:10):
rental properties into the market. The reasons we did the
bright line tests and the introsductibility is to make sure
we keep that private landlord market open as well. And
there's more that we've got to do in what Chris
is announcing today is actually thinking about how do we
actually build more houses and make it more affordable for
people to own. Now there's a whole bunch of things
in that space as well, Like our building products are
(03:31):
really expensive in New Zealand. It cost us fifty percent
more to build a house in this country than it
does in Australia. And it turns out we can't access
building products that are approved for use in America or
the UK, or Australia or Singapore other countries that we
would respect those jurisdictions, and as a result, our own
building products are very expensive. So that's one little thing that.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
You've got to do.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You've got to work on as well. But what Chris
is saying is, look, big cities, Tier one, tier two
cities should actually be very clear like other countries do
all around the world, to say we are rezoning land
that actually will be parked for residential development over the
next thirty years, whereas in New Zealand it's tended to
be exaggerate a bit. But it's been a bit ad
hoc because you have a farm that then gets rezoned,
(04:13):
the price goes up fifteen percent as it gets into
residential subdivisions and it happens in add hoc places across
the city and it's not planned development as such. So yes,
we've got to expand out on the city limits. We've
got to protect the productive lands for sure and the
growers both well. We can I mean our top five
percent of land we can certainly protect very strongly. That's
very productive growing lands, and I think we can do
(04:35):
that as well as obviously expand the piece. But you've
got to look at places like Pammua where we've got
big potential transport hubs and you say that's a good
place to densify and put high rises into us. We've
seen in parts of Sydney over the years as well.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
We will go. There's lots to cover. There's been much
and you have been busy, we've been busy. There's been
a lot grown under yours.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Mid We've got a lot to do to get the
country sorted though.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, well, you know, making a start and at least
whether people agree with you or not, they can see
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, and I'm trying to be transparent about it. So
I have these quarterly plans and I'm being sort of
foreshadowing in the next thirteen weeks, the next three months,
what is our government focused on to try and get something.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I did love the way you put some things in there,
like I would like some things I've already done, so
you can cross them off and it makes you feel better.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
About your lisf that's how you do you to do
And it looked a bit like Q.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Your Q three was a bit like that. It's like,
take cabinet decisions. Yeah, well yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But they're actually quite important because if you think about
a government, you're trying to make sure inside you actually
all agreed on the course of action. And in a
coalition government, I think it's even more important that you're
aligned because if you don't get it sorted inside and
agree and actually have had the robust discussions with officials
and others and advice about is this the right thing
to be doing? That actually is quite important, So it's
(05:55):
not not meant to be frivolous at all, but just
highlighting that. You know, if you think about we put
a whole bunch of things in the first one hundred
days around tackling gangs. Well over the last six months,
that led just of me goes through several readings, becomes
a law which will get past in August September. The
police can sult operationalizing in October November.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, so basically that's two things on your list you
can cross off, which is really only one. But that's
the way I do listen to and that way it's
less daunting, actually, Craig, is a question about gangs. Craig,
good morning to you.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Good morning mister Lux and thank you for your time
with the pet flow that you're bringing in truit here.
And then I'll hang up and listen to your answer.
Does the Bill of Rights have to be changed for
you to implement this? And regardless of that, what's to
stop future government from banning and Sydney as such as
(06:46):
there an eightist government such as the Valies are wearing
the uniform down the street. Yeah, I'll let you answer.
I'll hang up so I can hear you.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Thank you, Craig, thank you for one question. And look
what we're doing here is we just want to crank
the pressure up on gangs. Gangs have grown fifty one percent,
we've out a thirty percent growth and violent crime, and
they've been big drivers of a lot of that. We
want that gang life to be really unattractive for young people,
and so we've taken the laws that we've seen in
Western Australia, which have actually been implemented by a labor
premier very successful one, and have been very successful banning
(07:22):
gang patches. We already do it in the public buildings
like the hospitals and court rooms and other government buildings,
and we're expanding that out to public pressure because that's
about intimidation. So in terms of Bill of Rights, there's
always a Bill of Rights assessment about legislation that's passed,
but it's ultimately up for a government to say okay,
(07:42):
even if there's a what's called a bora negative Section
seven report, that can still fire ahead and actually make
that decision if it thinks it's in the interest of
New Zealand, doesn't We do.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
But what is a policeman in Portugy going to do
when there are twenty gang members gathered around here mustache?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And that's a question I've been asked a lot, and
police themselves have said, look, we will find the way
to operationalize that. It may be that you actually take
note of those individuals and you go follow up afterwards,
and there'll be a whole bunch of things that they
can do operationally to make sure that that policy is enforced.
But I just say to you, go look at Australia
and we've taken this idea out of there, out of Queensland,
(08:17):
out of West Australia. We've been a huge focus on
gangs and they very big organized crime biky gangs over there,
and this works. So and why wouldn't we try it? Frankly,
because I'm over it. I mean, we're all sick of
it and we can keep banging on and talking about it,
or we can try some stuff and you know it works.
It may not work, but who cares, We're going to
do that.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
We also have to accept that if there are young
people who find gang life more acceptable than joining the community,
there's something wrong with the community as well.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, and I think you know there's two parts of this, right.
We're putting pressure on gangs to say, hey, listen, you
want all the rights of being a key, but you're
not prepared to take the responsibilities. You cause impedal huge
amounts of pain and suffering across the New Zealand population,
across your fellow citizens, and that's not right. So we
are going to ban the game patches. We're giving police
the powers to break gangs up from associating with each other,
(09:06):
and we're also cracking down on the illegal guns through
fire and prohibition orders with them. And we're making gang
membership and aggravating our factor and sentencing right. So that's
the suite of gang laws that will be passed in
August September and now be the law of the land
for the police to now operationalize. But that's what we
have to do with make that attractive.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
On the other hand, we also have to do what
we call social investment, and we have to work at
the problems that are actually the root causes of a
lot of our social challenges in New Zealand are through
something called social investment, and that's why you saw us
in the last few weeks. It's technical, but we created
what's called a central government agency called the Social Investment Agency,
which is taking Bill English as thinking about those really
(09:45):
hard and tractable social problems and trying to find really
innovative solutions to them and getting often community organizations developed
that solution, rather than government sitting in the bureaucracy in
Wellington trying to dream it up.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
News Talks said, be Prime Minister Christopher Luxon taking your
question the fairies, the fairies, the fairies, Ben, You've got
a question about the fairies.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Yeah, we shouldn't a vestigating did Onceston Peter sign off
the two theories of the same size as we already
cad and then following this demise in twenty twenty that
labored them increased the size of those theories. We'll foot
giving the costings on the infrastructure upgread.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I mean I can't answer as to what was done
back in twenty seventeen. I just don't have that detail
with me at the moment. But what I can say
is essentially again take a step back. What happened here
was there was a seven hundred and fifty million dollar
investment planned for the fery upgrades for two new ferries,
and then what happened was the project then continued to
blow out to three point two billion dollars and actually
(10:47):
there was no end in sight actually as to where
that was going.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Was that on them?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, So what happened. What happened was because the firies
that were selected were quite unusual and special from what's
available around the world and custom built for New Zealand
or custom built for this project. They I think we're
about forty meters longer and ten meters wide and all
of that then necessitated massive upgrades to port infrastructure in
Picton and also in Wellington. So by the time we
(11:13):
looked at the three point two billion dollars, I think
only twenty percent of it was actually the boats and
eighty percent was actually all the enabling infrastructure needed to
support the boats. And then there were questions about actually
there's been a cost blowout, but there's also questions as
practically are these actually the right boats? Are they just
too big and the wrong kind of boat for the
actual task at hand. And so what we've said is, look,
(11:35):
we just can't carry on just drip feeding money in
making it a three point two billion to a five
billion dollar program and we've got a whole bunch of
challenges in New Zealand. So what we've done is we've
got money set aside. That's all good. We put a
ministerial advisory group of three people into a quick assessment
of what we actually need for the fairies and then
there will obviously be a process will come out very
shortly and talk about what we will do in that regard.
(11:56):
We need a solution, but it will be a different
solution and obviously got to be in a realm of
costs that's not as more digestible for or the country
and for the economy. At this point, we'll get the
right ships on the right piece of water and we'll
make sure that we get it set up right. But
you can't have a cost blowout with no end in
sight and then actually you know, actually getting seer expressions
(12:19):
whether these are the right practically the right sort of
boats to have on the water.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Anyway, just looking at the refresh of the Kiwi Rail
board and coming order and so forth, do you believe
that there have been board members have been elected for
their ideology as opposed to their skills.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, I won't go into that because that's for previous
governments to determine. But what I'm interested in is have
I got a board and a chair that actually can
deliver outcomes for New Zealanders. And so in the ki
We Rail it's fear to say, you know, we lost
a lot of confidence actually that this project was well
managed and other things. And so the chair has retired
and we are refreshing the board on health on kok
(12:56):
and Goora. You know, we had concerns about that organizations
we've talked about and so we have replaced the chair
and refreshed the board there. We want to turn around
planned by.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
The end of the year.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Why did he get the pay it?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, that will be an employment contract between the CEO
and the board. What I do as government is my
responsibility is to appoint the board, who are what are
called the governors of that organization. The management is then
selected by those governors.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So if it was smart enough, and if I was
smart enough to say, if there was a change of
boss at news talks, the'd be and they didn't like
the cut of my jib, I should negotiate that. Even
though he wants me gone, I want to be paid
out my contract.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I'm sure you have a great contract, Harry, and they
should pay you more anyode really good?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Ye should?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You should should really hit them up hard for that.
But no, I mean the dealer is. There will be
different details of employment contracts that individuals have with their boards.
But if you're sitting in my position, you know Ko's
are forty five billion dollar enterprise. I think there's something
like seventy five thousand people of families involved there. We
know it's been You've got financial management challenges, you've got
asset management challenges, and very poor consultation with communities and
(14:00):
other things.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
And we want it.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
We want to step change the performance there because we
know we need to build, as we talked about before,
more social houses. But actually I want to know that
every dollar I put into an organization is going to
be well run and well managed. I'm not wanting to
put good money after bad strategy or bad management.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Are you hann Good morning to you, Hi, Gerrie Homer's selection.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
How you guys, good your hunt? How are you going?
Speaker 6 (14:21):
I'm very good things My wife she's the first year
nurse now in factice and you guys campaigns on paying
nurses student learns up to four and a half thousand
a year, so you know, she was in studying while
it was too keiped on one Sundary and with all
(14:42):
the other nurses speaking with her and they're saying when
it's going to come in place because a lot of
them are living to Australia, so it's want to ask, Yeah, yeah,
I'm to put that in place.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah, good, good question your hands. I mean the first
thing is your wife's incredible, because our nurses are amazing.
And what's been actually really encouraging is that we over
the last six months have recruited several I think we've
got a couple fifteen hundred to two thousand more nurses
actually in the system, which is actually really good. I
know it's still imperfect. I know a healthcare system is complex,
and there's still lots more for us to do, but
(15:15):
we've made good progress on the recruitment with respect to
what we were proposing, which was the bonding program, which
was to say, if you go and prepared to study
as a nurse, actually we would reimburse your fees over
that if you stayed in the system for five years
or more. That's something that Shane Retti is still working through.
So we'll have more to say about that, hopefully in
the next week while. But we know we've got a
(15:37):
homegrow as many nurses doctors as we possibly can. We've
still got our immigration settings really open for international nurses
and doctors. We are making progress on the numbers and
the recruitment just in the last six months. More to
do obviously, it's not even up and down the system
in terms of the different hospitals and different situations people
are in. But yeah, there's more work for us to
do in that space.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Shame.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
We'll have more to seavocgeally.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So what kind of timeframes because Farmac happened very quickly.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, Farmac was a big one because we had to
work through a different process as to what was the
better way to deliver that that commitment that we made.
And I know he's I know it's on his work plan.
I just can't give you a precise time frame on
that at this point.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Not six months, not three years.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Oh well, we want to do it, obviously, I've got
in this term clearly, But it's just that what we're
trying to do is just march through quarter by quarter
to make sure we're doing the must do critical stuff
and you know, he's done a lot of great work,
for example on getting sixteen point seven billion dollars into
the healthcare system, and of the last budget, we had
to find the two billion almost in farmat core funding,
(16:39):
and then we wanted to, you know, get the six
hundred million with the fifty four cancer medicines away. So
it's not to say, you know, Johannes right, you know,
will come back. We are looking at that. It's just
that we're practically just trying to manage, you know what,
We're trying to land and get it done well and
delivered well. So when we do get to that, we've
got that really gripped up and well delivered.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
We talked about this in the election campaign last year.
Rebecca says, is it possible to get long term bipartisan
agreement on in for structure, health education strategies and outputs
to avoid stop starts and budget blow You talked about
that a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, I'd love to and I really would love to
try to do exactly that. And I think with our
three year cycle, the problem is things get turned off,
turned on, turned off, turned off, and nothing happens right,
and people get very frustrated about that and I'm frustrated
about that too.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You were talking about a fifty year time plane.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, so what I want is a thirty year infrastructure pipeline,
and then I want ten years for regional city deals
so that we know what's happening in a region, what
needs to happen, and then it locks up and then
it's actually doesn't matter whether I lose my job or
a mayor loses their job. That program carries on, right.
And then we have what's called a National Infrastructure Agency
that actually is coordinating that and also getting the money
(17:51):
soon's from the government. Well, that is going to happen,
So that is what we're working on.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So you've got labor on side.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well, we're working on, first of all, getting the thirty
year pipeline delivered and locked up so that it's not
just post it notes of ideas. You know, we've actually
got a lot of detail around when we want to
do structure.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Doing a bipartisan plan infrastructure plan, you would have to
have the other parties in with you at the start.
Otherwise you're just handing them a fate a compliance saying
sign that.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, the first thing is actually to just before we
can even start, you know, like, what you want to
do is go to that conversation hey saying hey, listen,
here's our innovation pipeline. You know, I'd want other parties
to react to that as the set of projects that
they think that is the right set as well. But
you've actually got to have a straw man and a
starter for ten and at the moment, what we've got,
as you've seen Auckland light Rail you know, been a
(18:39):
project for a long time, we still don't have a
route six years going two hundred and fifty million dollars,
not a single I mean, we do it really badly, right,
And so the first thing I'm trying to do is
as the government, I want to take control and say, right,
thirty year pipeline, not post it notes with ideas, but
proper projects, to find ten year city regional deals as
to what sort of is the core infrastructure in the
regions and then what's the national infrastructure agent that actually
(19:01):
works at how we finance and fund that stuff. And
it doesn't sound you know, it's actually really important stuff
because if you think about key bits of roads that
have been promised and they're not delivered, and they're promised,
they're not delivered as successive governments have had a different
view about all of that. The more that we can
get that aligned is important. Simon Watts has done a
good job on the environment because we know, as we
(19:23):
think about climate adaptation, we're going to need infrastructure that's
much more resilient. And he started that process with the
parties knowing that there will be different governments of different
colors over the next thirty to fifty years. It's going
to be different generations. There's lots of people involved in it,
so he's trying to do that in a very bipartisan
way from the beginning. But I get the frustration. I
also think that's why for your term would be a
good thing to pray.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Minister Christopher Luxon in studio Cheryl, good morning to you.
You have a question.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Good morning here, Good morning mister Luxan, good morning.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Oh well, thank you. I'm interested to understand how it
works when an MP from another coalition partner prepares a
bill that will pretty much rides roughshod over what the
National Party promised and your manifesto. I'm talking about youth
faith here, which is what's happening. So my specific question
is if there was appetite within your National Party caucase,
(20:13):
would you consider using the agree to disagree clause on
a bill to go back to the drawing board and
deliver on a commitments you've made.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Look, I mean the way that I tried to do
it was have these coalition agreements between the National Party
and ACT and National Party and New Zealand first, and
then I made New Zealand person and Act actually sign
off on each other's agreements with me in the National
Party as a result as well, and that's given us
a lot of stability and security. Otherwise you get a
lot of instability in that coalition agreement. But where we
(20:42):
have things outside of the coalition agreement, then what we
have is an ability to have agree to disagree clauses
in our agreements as well. And we've actually, i think
used two of them actually already in the first seven months.
And the things where the parties have different points of
view and we come to a very sensible, it's a
very mature, reasonable conversation to say, look, you know that
(21:02):
doesn't work for us, And here's the reason for why.
It's all pretty calm and sorted with those clauses. And
we also have these separate meetings where we have points
of tension that we have clearing what we call the
clearing house meeting in my office. Once are sitting on vaping,
I just say to you on you know, in March
we announce we want a complete ban on disposable vapes.
The second thing is that we've had a significant increase
(21:24):
in fines for sales to under eighteen's and we're putting
more restrictions on retailers. So I am actually quite concerned
about underage vaping in particular. And I think, you know
Casey Cossello in the work that she's doing that space,
and she's got more work planned towards the end of
the year in that area as well, I think is
all good right across it?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, we're right across it. We actually far preferred what
you had in your manifesto. So I'm just really curious
to know whether there's any halfway to achieving that. Maybe
a conscience vote, Yeah, well that comes forwards. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
The other thing I just say, look is if you
think there are things that we should be considering, and
you know that we do try and run these select
committee processes as laws get changed, that's a great chance
to sort of put those thoughts in. We genuinely do
take in those public submissions and stakeholder submissions really seriously
because actually that's why we go through a process where
you have a first reading of a bell, then you
(22:16):
go to a select committee where you get public submissions
and feedback. Then you go back and rewrite the law
a bit and improve it to get a second reading,
and then it obviously goes through to a third reading
and becomes a law. So I just encourage you. If
they think there's things that are missing, you know, tell
us and we'll be very upen to that. But I
do agree with you underage vaping big problem.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We talk to principles parents, and I just think some
of the measures that we've got going actually are going
to be helpful.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Banning the phone seems to have worked.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Banning phones was a classic, right, I mean, that was
an interesting one where official said we need to consult
on the hand and he said, well, no, actually we
need to do men.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Principles that were a bit empty, and now yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Mean, principles are loving it. The cyber bullyings down, the
kids are playing in the playground, and actually the kids
that I run into now. I always ask them, you know,
how's it going without the phones and schools and they
say it's actually working.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, you know, I have a question from an emailer.
The Public Service Commissioner left at the end of feb
to date has not been replaced. If you look at
the leadership of the public service, you see exactly the
same phases that we're there under labor performance of some
departments has been shocking to say the least. Does the
public service need a culture change to raise the expectation
of those working there? How is that possible with the
(23:23):
same people in charge the Yes, ministers.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Well, I'd say yes, it does need a culture change,
and that's what we are bringing to Wellington for sure.
That's why I put targets in place. That's why I
hold the Minister and the CEO jointly accountable for delivering
on those targets, and they come back to a committee
that I actually cheer on their progress on those things.
That's why we've got the quarterly action plans to focus
the public service. But I just also say I think
(23:47):
government and ministers have a big role to play. If
you're a minister of a portfolio and you don't have
clarity about what you're there to deliver in the next
three years and focus on those ends and those outcomes.
How on earth is the Public Service CEO is supposed
to just react to the waffle or the lack of
clarity they're getting from our ministers. And that's how I
felt about the previous government, that the ministers weren't directing
(24:08):
and clear about what they wanted. So, you know, if
I look at someone like Chris Bishop, you know who's
responsible for sedate housing, he's very clear that KAO has
been underperforming. We want change there. We've done a quick
review with SABIL English, We've made changes and we know
what we want to do. If I look at Louise
Upston in the social development space, we want people off
welfare and into work, so she's working really hard on obligations,
(24:31):
you know, making sure that people are checks, to make
sure that they've got to reapply for their unemployment that
actually are doing their job, which is to look for
a job. So if you don't have ministers with clarity,
then in fairness, the public service ends up implementing a
whole bunch of stuff that actually, in the absence of
clarity or in a direction, do it through the wrong stuff.
(24:51):
But having said that, we're very clear with the public servants.
You've seen us move on organizations, whether it's Health New
Zealand's getting a refresh board, KAO is getting a refresh board.
You've seen us with KiwiRail, other other entities and Crown
entities and government agencies. We continue to do that. The
Public Service commissioner role is very important to get it
right because that is the role that I want to
(25:12):
see driving a lot of that cultural shift and change,
and I want the right leader in there to do
exactly that.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
News talk z'd be the boot camps. The boot camps.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
The boot camps.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
If you're going to introduce something that hasn't worked in
the past, but you say is different and will work.
But there is some you know, pushback against the boot camps,
You've got to be clear in your communication. And I
don't really think there's been clarity around it.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Look, I mean I just say I've said in on
the sessions. As that program's been designed, it's led by
a wrong a Tamaiki. We've had inputs from Defense No
wrong a Tamaiki under the Mike Bush review and under
Karenchua's leadership and the management changes that she's made and
the staff that have been actually taken out of the
organization terrible they have but a terrible job. But we've
got a massive responsibility to her to manage that our
(25:56):
most vulnerable kids that are often hitting in the wrong direction.
And so so I'm really pleased because yeah, I get it.
You know, we've we've tried it in the past and
there were things that didn't work, particularly actually there integration,
integrated into community. That's been a big problem. But that's
why we've got police inputs, defense inputs, community organizations are
(26:17):
there from day one working with these young people on
their issues, working with their siblings, with their families. We're
taking them off the streets and out of the communities
to the community safe. But we're actually going to use
opportunities like that to try and turn those.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Where does the message get muddled with the defense Force,
with Mitchell with you, because that just takes time away
from really important stuff that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I mean, I'm sure we know what we're doing. We're
really clear on the inside. Maybe we've got to you know,
we've got to communicate it better.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
I get that.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I mean, we won't get everything right, you know, to
be brutally honest with you on that, but I tell
you we are doing it. A lot of what you're
getting is pushed back from pundits, media commentators that won't
like it, But I don't care because actually, what I
care about is those young people. What I care about
is those victims, and what I care about is actually
getting crime down in this country. And I damn it,
We're going to try something different.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
And you do have to, as you've looked at with
the gangs, you have to work with the social investment
to stop them going into the gangs as well as
the gang problem. So are you going to continue with
programs like Kotah te Fakar or that was started under
labor that does seem to have.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Worked, programs that do work, will continue to put money
towards as long as they're getting hard outcomes. And so
a good example. And I want to do a lot
more of that. And that's what we mean by social investment.
And actually I have more announcements around mental health later
on today, just so that's in that same vein the
reason we gave twenty four million dollars to I Am Hope,
gum Boot Friday was because Mike in that organization, for
(27:36):
every dollar you give them, there's about five dollars seventy.
I think of social benefit that's actually created of money
that's not being spent in the criminal justice system and
the healthcare system, in the education system with those young people.
So we have to get the money out of Wellington
and the bureaucracy. We have to power up good communication
community organizations that are often doing great work in a pocket,
(27:59):
but you actually want to hit the photocopier button and
have them do it across the whole country.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So that's a good example where we're putting money in
an organization like that, and we want to do a
lot more of that. But the quid pro quo is
pretty simple. You have to get a result. It's not
just big hearted people with good intentions doing some.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Stuff saying our boys feel more mona as a result.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, you've actually got to make sure that that is
leading to hard headed, improved outcomes.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
If you have time, could you ask and we're running out, Gosh,
this goes quickly, doesn't it. If you have time, could
you ask the PM about apprenticeships. We have two boys
looking for apprenticeships. The country needs more qualified trade workers. However,
companies aren't hiring because construction is done. The plot call
my words, Now is the time to be training, so
when the economy picks up, we have skilled workers.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Fully agree fully, and actually that was the one program
and policy out of the previous government that I respected,
which was actually the Apprenticeship Boost program, which we've kept
and we will continue to invest in that. Penny Simmons
is doing a big reach reset of sort of vocational
training to make sure we get that right. But I
agree with you, but it is challenging for construction at
the moment because the economy with all that spin, drove
(29:06):
inflation up, drove interest rates up, slowed the economy down,
and has left lead rising unemployment. That's why we're working
so hard. The number one thing I have to do
is get inflation down so I can get interest rates
down and get the economy growing again, keep people on work.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
How much inflation can you control when you've got Ukraine,
when you've got those two s, yeahthetic old men who
are battling it out for the.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Well the things of the US. Inflation breaks into two bits,
the international bit, which is actually down I think just
below two percent, So that's not our problem at the moment.
Our problem has been the domestic part, and that has
been driven by, as I said, you know, lots of
government spending last time fueling that inflation. So if we
can get that down to three percent, I know it's hard,
but it is hard for New Zealanders right now.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It's really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
It's really hard paycheck to paycheck week to week, and
I'm very conscious of that. We're very even.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
People who never would have considered themselves having to compare
cheeses or butter at the Super Bowl, they're doing so.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, I've met with families, you know, and food banks
for example, up and down the country who are never
thought that ever be there, that are there as middle
lower middle income working families.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And the social contract is that if I work hard
and pay much to get ahead, do well, I should
get ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, but we're dealing with the hangover of economic mismanagement.
And I know New Zealanders you don't alway appreciate it,
but good management and good economic management matters a lot,
because when you don't get it gripped up, you end
up causing the pain and suffering that we're all experiencing.
So we're having to go through. The good news is
you look at something like food prices that's only gone
about zero point two percent in the last twelve months.
(30:36):
Inflation's out at four that's the lowest I think it's been,
certainly food down for about five years, updown from seven
and so we've actually now got to push on get
it below three. And then when we do that, interest
rates can come down. Then the economy starts to grow
because businesses can invest in construction and development, all of
those good things.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I think a lot of tired New Zealanders want to know,
are we there yet?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I know, I know, I know, but we've had seven months.
We're trying to undo six years of bad economic management
and New Zealand. These are the lessons that we've learned
in the past. If you don't control governments, you lose
control of inflation. When you lose control of inflation, interest
rates go up. When interest rates go up, the economy
slow down, and why unemployment goes up. So it's that simple,
and that's why I've got to deal with the root
(31:16):
cause of the problem. And that's what Nicola and I
are spending most of our days trying to get you
moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It seems you're also delegating quite well. You've got a
good suite of ministers who seem to be and.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
We've got a great, I mean big job of my
job as Prime ministers to make sure I get the
right people on the right assignment with a very clear
brief and a set of expectations that I have of them.
And I think when I look across all of my portfolios,
I'm really proud of our ministers. I know they're working
really hard. We're in a turnaround mode and so we
are moving at pace and we are deliberately making decisions
(31:46):
and I know some of them are tough and they're
they're doing it fast. But it's more important that we
get a hard yes or a hard note to people
rather than mush and non decision.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
News talk said. Be well that's that really, And you're
off soon, aren't you? Yeah, Nato birday.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I've got Timaru tomorrow. Why ra are on Saturday, back
to Aukland on Sunday, a lot of reading and then
off on Monday evening to the States. And really I've
got speed dating with a bunch of US politicians across
the aisle on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What are you doing in San fran.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, Wednesday, I've got actually European leaders for they're all
in town for NATO. We have a NATO IP four meeting,
which is what I'm there for on the Thursday. And
then on Friday, I'm in San Francisco meeting with investors.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Actually want to invest here.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
In New Zealand. That's what I'm trying to do. So
everywhere I go around the world, I meet with investors
because one of the things we need, in light of
some of the conversations we've had today, is investment. And
we're actually the worst in the developed country at attracting
overseas capital to come into New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
But not just to build golf courses.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
But no, no, I like to partner, like I want
to build roads for US. Okay, right, And so we
could wait, we could wait thirty years to get State
Ioway twenty nine done, or we could actually do that
in a joint venture with private capital from pension funds
and superannuation funds from in New Zealand and from around
the world and actually get that built much quicker. Yes,
you might have to pay a toll for it, but
New Zealander say to me, I quite like my roads
(33:05):
that have been new roads that have been built. And
I pay a norminal toe if it means it much quicker.
So absolutely so an interesting Yeah. So the States is good,
good time to build that relationship and to week with others.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Do you have a preference between the two dottery old men,
the narcissist or the bumbling idiot.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
I will work with whoever the American people will deliver
as president, because my job is to advance New Zealand's
interests and I'll make those relationships work, whichever they are
or Rish you soon there again, I make it work.
That's my job, Kerrie Burriller pen, I'll make it work.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Okay. So we going to leave with Teddy swims the door.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah, he's coming to town this weekend.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
He is Are you going on Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
No, because I think I'm coming. I'm in Roirah, so
and on. But he's awesome as always, lovely to have
you in studio.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Thank you for taking the time. They always enjoy asking
the questions. So refreshing listening to mister Laxlin. Mind you,
this is an easy audience. Properly, do you go to
the hard audiences like you know, I can.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Try to go everywhere. I don't always like me, but
I've got to go everywhere to make sure I get
the message out.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Well, very nice to have you. Safe travels. You're not
hopefully traveling on that clunker.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
No, we won't. We won't push the limits and make
it go that farthest time.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Can we get a new plan?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
We're gonna work on it. I tell you we're going
to get one.
Speaker 6 (34:18):
Yep. Nice.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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