Kerre Woodham: It's all about timing when it comes to sanctions

It's no surprise really, given that National campaigned on getting tough on work-shy beneficiaries, that benefit sanctions have increased more than 50% since the same time last year. Last year Louise Upston said should National become the government, they would make it crystal clear to those who were receiving the job seeker benefit, what their obligations were and what the consequences would be if they refuse to do their bit. So there were 10,389 sanctions issued in the June quarter, up 3,630 or 53.7% compared to June last year, mainly for not attending appointments and failing to prepare for work.  

The National Party has a traffic light system for those on Jobseeker Benefit to make clear the consequences of not fulfilling their obligations. Green light - you're good to go. You're compliant with finding and preparing for work. You receive your benefit as normal. The government doesn't interfere in your life. Anyone on an orange light is at some risk. These are clients who have received one or two warnings, that they aren't fulfilling their obligations, so they might have to do more frequent check-ins with WINZ, not necessarily in person - you can have phone check ins, or computer check ins, or do mandatory training. If you're high risk, you've had three chances and a number of sanctions can be applied to these people, including either cutting or suspending the benefit, subjecting them to money management, or making them do community work.  

Money management is a new sanction. WINZ would pay the person's rent, bills and debt directly, puts some of the benefit into the bank account and then add the rest to a special card that could only be used for food and groceries at approved stores. People might not like that level of interference, but that will only happen after you have had three or more warnings.   

Green Party spokesperson for Social Development and Employment Ricardo Menendez March spoke to Jack Tame last night and said the benefits sanctions will hurt people already struggling to make ends meet and it will limit their chances of getting out of poverty.  

“Benefit sanctions have not been shown to work, so I think just peddling with the same failed approach won't actually help anyone, and it's also quite rich for the government to be kicking people off work, cutting jobs, and pushing people onto a benefit, while at the same time doubling down on punishment and yet not being able to substantiate the millions of dollars that go into these works seminars that have not shown to help people into good work. We've got plenty of reports that show that people get just pushed into casual jobs that end up costing more in childcare, that are insecure as well.” 

That was the Greens Ricardo Menendez March talking to Jack Tame on the drive show last night. I would like to know if he's right? Are the work seminars a complete and utter waste of time? Because if they are, then let's not keep doing that. We've learned that that if something doesn't work, if something isn't getting the desired result and you can measure that, then we stop it. We don't go throwing good money after bad. So, if the work seminars are not worthwhile and they're not meaningful, what is the point? And perhaps you have been on a work seminar in the immediate aftermath of Covid, when people suddenly found themselves without a job, you might have had to go to a work seminar or have some counselling over the phone. Does it help you find another job, look at another career?   

Also, in politics it's all about timing and I totally support getting tough on people who choose not to work, who are able to work and choose not to, when employers are screaming for staff. People like BBQ man and Nature Boy who think we're the idiots for getting up and going to work and paying our taxes while they refuse to take w

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks. He'd be.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Came out yesterday, but it's no surprise really, given that
National campaigned on getting tough on workshire beneficiaries. That benefit
sanctions have increased more than fifty percent since the same
time last year. Last year, Louise Upstein said, should National
become the government, they would make it crystal clear to

(00:33):
those who were receiving the job see could benefit, what
their obligations were and what the consequences would be if
they refused to do their bit. So there were three
hundred and eighty nine sanctions issued in the June quarter,
up three six hundred and thirty or fifty three point
seven percent compared to this time last year or June
last year, mainly for not attending appointments and failing to

(00:57):
prepare for work. Not sure if that involves drug testing,
but failing to prepare for work anyway. No party has
a traffic light system for those on jobs Seeker benefit
to make clear the consequences of not fulfilling their obligations.
Green light, you're good to go, your compliant with finding
and preparing for work. You receive your benefit as normal.

(01:20):
The government doesn't interfere in your life. Anyone on an
orange light is at some risk. These are clients have
received one or two warnings that they aren't fulfilling their obligations,
so they might have to do more frequent check ins
with WINS, not necessarily in person. You can have phone
checkens or computer checkings, or do mandatory training if your

(01:42):
high risk. You've had three chances, and a number of
sanctions can be applied to these people, including either cutting
or suspending the benefit, subjecting them to money management, or
making them do community work. Money management is a new sanction.
WINS would pay the person's rent, bills and debt directly,

(02:02):
put some of the benefit into the bank account, and
then add the rest to a special card that could
only be used for food and groceries at approof stores.
Would that I had WINS managing my money like that
when I started work, But nonetheless I get that people
might not like that level of interference, but that will
only happen after you've had three or more warnings. Green

(02:24):
Party spokesperson spoke to Jack Tame last night, and the
Green Party spokesperson for Social Development and Employment, Ricardo Menendez
much said the benefit sections will hurt people already struggling
to make ends meet, and it will limit their chances
of getting out of poverty.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Benefit sanctions have not been shun to work, so I
think just peddling with the same failed approach want to
actually help anyone. And it's also quite rich for the
government to be kicking people off work, cutting jobs and
pushing people into a benefit while at the same time
doubling downe and punishment, and yet not being able to
substantiate the millions of dollars that go into these works
seminars that have not shown to help people into good work.

(03:02):
We've got plenty of reports that show that people get
just into casual jobs that end up customing more in
cholt care that are insecure as well.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
That was the Greens recutimin end as much. Talking to
Jack Tame on the Drive Show last night, I would
like to know if he's right, Ah, the work seminars
are complete and utter waste of time, because if they are,
then let's not keep doing that. We've looped that that
if something doesn't work, if something isn't getting the desired result,

(03:33):
and you can measure that, then we stop it. We
don't go throwing good money after bad So if the
work seminars are not worthwhile and they're not meaningful, what
is the point. And perhaps you've been on a work
seminar in the wake of you know, in the immediate
aftermath of COVID, when people suddenly found themselves without a job,

(03:55):
you might have had to go to a work seminar
or have some counseling over the phone. Does it help
you find another job, look at another career, get yourself
you've been in the same job for twenty years, get
yourself ready to go out there into a terrifying new
world and find yourself a new job. Because if they

(04:16):
don't work, stop them. Also, in politics, it's all about timing,
and I totally support getting tough on people who choose
not to work, who are able to work and choose
not to when employers are screaming for staff, people like
barbecue Man and forest boy who think we're the idiots

(04:36):
for getting up and going to work and paying our
taxes while they refuse to take work because they are
better than the jobs being offered them. They are superior humans.
They're worth more than the money being offered and the
job being offered. I mean nobody else thinks that apart
from them. But they will continue to take their barbecue

(04:58):
to the beach and have a lovely time on a
glorious day while we're at work, or whistle through the
wheat fields and the forests, communing with nature and hugging
trees and listening to the birds, and pitying us for
going to work and providing the taxes that pay for
their benefits. So I yeah, they grind mygear's and I'd

(05:19):
love to see them go under the oaken, go to
a bloody pointless seminar, cut off my nose to spite
my face, to see them have to account for the
money that's been given to them by us working. Well,
they have nothing but contempt for us. But like I say,
it's all about timing to come out swinging sort of sanctions,

(05:41):
more sanctions when people are suffering through job losses and
a recession, When there are people who would love to
be working and paying the mortgage and putting the food
on the table, but they can't because they've lost their
jobs through an engineered recession, seems a bit cruel. You
lose a bit of the impact with your talk of

(06:02):
sanctions and your talk of getting people back into work.
People at the moment can't precisely because the government and
the previous government, the Reserve Bank of engineer a recession.
They need people out of work so we can get
inflation down. So it's all about the timing. I have
no problem with getting tough on people who choose not

(06:25):
to work when the jobs are going begging and they
just can't be asked. Going to a nine to five
is going to interfere with the drug dealing. How am
i supposed to meet all my customers when I'm expected
to be at work. It's not going to do it.
Benefits a nice little supplement to my black market dealings.

(06:48):
I have no intention of getting a job. Sure, get
tough on them. I would have liked to have seen
this come out when we were at a time of
high employment, not at a time when there are people
who are desperate for work, and because a recession has
it been engineered, they cannot get one.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
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