Officials have tried multiple times to build a life-saving disaster coordination system, similar to those other countries have invested in.
But, New Zealand has shied away from its latest attempt, a Common Operation Platform.
Minister for Emergency Management and Recovery Mark Mitchell tells Kerre Woodham many people are working to figure out a way to bring information together quickly during times of disaster – but it is a complex solution to find.
Mitchell praises the work of Civil Defence controllers, first responders and local leadership during national emergencies and says collectively the system will be a heavy investment for the country.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from news
Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talk said be there was a piece and Aren
said this morning investigating our national disaster coordination system And
according to Radio New Zealand's inquiries, for twenty years, authorities
have tried to adopt the sort of effective and enduring
disaster coordination solution that other countries have invested in. States
in Australia have invested in, but then they've shied away
(00:33):
from it. I remember talking to Kitty Allen, who was
then Minister for Civil Defense, about She was talking about
the work that was going on to establish an effective
disaster coordination system, but New Zealand's latest attempt at building
a common Operation Platform or COP was abandoned apparently just
(00:53):
weeks ago. To discuss I'm joined by Minister of Emergency
Management and Recovery Mark Mitchell, fresh from the Rumble in Russell.
Very good morning to you. Any injuries from trotting around
the past.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, Sarah told me that if I played, I wasn't
there to complaining about inrece But yes, I've got some
sal roots a saw bag.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It looked like somen though.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
It was a great day and it was. She was
a great weekend all around, and it's so good to
get up and support Northland and mbut there there's a
great buzz and that was excellent.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
For Old Northland's been doing it a bit tough. But
that was also one of the areas that was badly
affected and cut off with Gabriel. Like, I know of
a number of people who are absolutely traumatized really by
the fact that for nearly a week they had no communications,
no power, nothing. What's happened to our national disaster coordination system?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, I mean, so what you're talking about, what sel
Penning was talking about, Orange's talking about is a what
we called a common operating picture, and yes there's been
a lot of work done on that over a couple
of decades. It's is extremely complicated. It is not simple
because you need a system that can meet the needs
of a local emergency, which is since I've been the Minister,
(02:13):
I've had four of those to deal with, and then
a system that can right up through the whole regional
and to central level. In terms of a national response
as well. It's very difficult. Most countries really struggle to
be able to sort of come up with that utopian
solution for that, the one hundred percent solution I think
where ongoing as the Minister is that we're doing a
lot of work on it. Obviously as a result of
(02:34):
the report that came back to me from Sideriu metaprie
On Gabriel is we it may be impossible to hit
one hundred percent solution, but let's get as close to
it as we can.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And what happened to the work that Kady Allen was.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Doing well, I think the work that Fills are referring
to was the work that Lind's were doing, and that
wasn't around a copper common operating picture. That was some
work around you, how do we get the best information
around geospation information and the information that Lind's sort of has.
That's a big part of it. Of course, it's really
important that that data has sheared quickly, and of course
(03:11):
we have NEE where we have the met service and
geo net too that will contribute into that. I was
literally at a symposium in christ Hitch last week meeting
a lot of our hydrologists, scientists and engineers around this,
everyone is working really hard to figure out a way
of being able to bring all that information together quickly
(03:31):
so people are informed. But I come back to the
point that it is really complicated. It's not as simple
as it sounds to build a system that is able
to accommodate all that. I was in Australia recently I
met with Benda Moon, their director of the ANEMA, and
they have exactly the same struggles and challenges that we have.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But according to the story, there are there are systems
that have been set up, but I don't understand how
a system would work anyway. I mean the whole when
you have a natural disaster, there are no communications.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So that's a very make a very good point, is it?
In these days we deal with so many different thes.
The one thing that I would like to say here
and the opportunity to say, is that since I've been
the minister for the last seven months, I've had four
local states forburdencias. I've had the Porthills fires and christ
Church West Coast heavy rain and flooding. But we thought
(04:24):
we might look we has a stop back and spank
in five hundred residents are at risk, Hawk's Bay, Warre
and Gisbone. Recently that all the responses have been outstanding
from the CDM controllers, the civil defense controllers, right throughout
our right through our first responders, the mayors, the councils.
The system is not waiting for reviews to come back.
(04:44):
Now everyone is recognizing that we have to make change. NIMA.
I've asked Nina to step up and they've done that.
They stood up and took control of the crowd strike,
which was just another infrastructure failure. We had space weather
that the country probably wouldn't have been that aware of,
but we were right across that dealing with the utility
companies making sure that our power was managed. So we
(05:04):
are getting much better, and there's a lot of work
going on around emergency management for US as a country
because we do sort of sit at the top of
the risk index around continue to be hit with these
types of events.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, we really do. But I mean all of this
work that's been going on, I mean it started twenty
odd years ago and a lot of the technology would
have been superseded by now. So I mean, like you say,
it's impossible, well, it would be nigh impossible to get
one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think utopia would be one hundred percent where everyone
has plugged, and I think that's part of the problem.
So I think everyone's sort of been aiming for that.
I've got a slightly different view, but I think that
listen if around the world, if you look at it
and you see that it's impossible to deliver a perfect system.
Let's get as close to perfect as we can, but
let's just get it done. And so that's the work
(05:58):
that's going on at the moment. Though we'll be reporting
back to Cabinet. It is costly, make no mistake about that.
I think it's going to be a heavy investment for
us as a country, but it continues to be signaled
as one of the things that we need to move towards.
It's certainly something that I hear out on the ground
where I'm dealing with all our emergency management experts, that
(06:18):
we need a common operating picture. So I think it's
time that we really knuckled down and figure out how
to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It seems really weird that, you know, we can't even
get any kind of agreement between our weather forecasting systems
like met Service and knewhere at each other's throats. If
we can't even get that right, how on earth are
we going to get anything more common? You know anything
more sophisticated.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Look, I agree with you. You raise another very good
point and that's something else that we're looking at from
central government point of view in terms of what is
the best most efficient way to get data and information
out that gspatial information out to people. And look, I
agree with you. I remember as a local MP and
my own electric when we got hit with the Auckland
flooding events, not knowing not actually pulled the veil back
(07:04):
in terms of how how does our emergency system work.
I was really surprised as the incoming minister that there's
a whole lot of things that we need to do
that haven't been done. And that's really what my focus
is now.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well, good luck, I mean it's going to be geantuan task.
And yeah, I'll be very interested to hear any updates.
And I thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Thanks Kurrie, thanks having me on.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Mark Mitchell Ministry for Minister for Emergency Management and Recovery.
It's going to be really interesting to see if they can.
I don't know how they're going to be able to
pull it together. I think there's almost too much information
and yet ultimately when it comes down to it, regions
are on their own. You know, it's all very well
and good having the information, but if you can't, if
you can't get it to the people who need it
(07:49):
to make decisions, how are we going to be any
better off? In twenty years of work? Holy? Here can
we still haven't got anything?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
news talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from news
Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talk said be there was a piece and Aren
said this morning investigating our national disaster coordination system And
according to Radio New Zealand's inquiries, for twenty years, authorities
have tried to adopt the sort of effective and enduring
disaster coordination solution that other countries have invested in. States
in Australia have invested in, but then they've shied away
(00:33):
from it. I remember talking to Kitty Allen, who was
then Minister for Civil Defense, about She was talking about
the work that was going on to establish an effective
disaster coordination system, but New Zealand's latest attempt at building
a common Operation Platform or COP was abandoned apparently just
(00:53):
weeks ago. To discuss I'm joined by Minister of Emergency
Management and Recovery Mark Mitchell, fresh from the Rumble in Russell.
Very good morning to you. Any injuries from trotting around
the past.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, Sarah told me that if I played, I wasn't
there to complaining about inrece But yes, I've got some
sal roots a saw bag.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It looked like somen though.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
It was a great day and it was. She was
a great weekend all around, and it's so good to
get up and support Northland and mbut there there's a
great buzz and that was excellent.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
For Old Northland's been doing it a bit tough. But
that was also one of the areas that was badly
affected and cut off with Gabriel. Like, I know of
a number of people who are absolutely traumatized really by
the fact that for nearly a week they had no communications,
no power, nothing. What's happened to our national disaster coordination system?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, I mean, so what you're talking about, what sel
Penning was talking about, Orange's talking about is a what
we called a common operating picture, and yes there's been
a lot of work done on that over a couple
of decades. It's is extremely complicated. It is not simple
because you need a system that can meet the needs
of a local emergency, which is since I've been the Minister,
(02:13):
I've had four of those to deal with, and then
a system that can right up through the whole regional
and to central level. In terms of a national response
as well. It's very difficult. Most countries really struggle to
be able to sort of come up with that utopian
solution for that, the one hundred percent solution I think
where ongoing as the Minister is that we're doing a
lot of work on it. Obviously as a result of
(02:34):
the report that came back to me from Sideriu metaprie
On Gabriel is we it may be impossible to hit
one hundred percent solution, but let's get as close to
it as we can.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And what happened to the work that Kady Allen was.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Doing well, I think the work that Fills are referring
to was the work that Lind's were doing, and that
wasn't around a copper common operating picture. That was some
work around you, how do we get the best information
around geospation information and the information that Lind's sort of has.
That's a big part of it. Of course, it's really
important that that data has sheared quickly, and of course
(03:11):
we have NEE where we have the met service and
geo net too that will contribute into that. I was
literally at a symposium in christ Hitch last week meeting
a lot of our hydrologists, scientists and engineers around this,
everyone is working really hard to figure out a way
of being able to bring all that information together quickly
(03:31):
so people are informed. But I come back to the
point that it is really complicated. It's not as simple
as it sounds to build a system that is able
to accommodate all that. I was in Australia recently I
met with Benda Moon, their director of the ANEMA, and
they have exactly the same struggles and challenges that we have.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But according to the story, there are there are systems
that have been set up, but I don't understand how
a system would work anyway. I mean the whole when
you have a natural disaster, there are no communications.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So that's a very make a very good point, is it?
In these days we deal with so many different thes.
The one thing that I would like to say here
and the opportunity to say, is that since I've been
the minister for the last seven months, I've had four
local states forburdencias. I've had the Porthills fires and christ
Church West Coast heavy rain and flooding. But we thought
(04:24):
we might look we has a stop back and spank
in five hundred residents are at risk, Hawk's Bay, Warre
and Gisbone. Recently that all the responses have been outstanding
from the CDM controllers, the civil defense controllers, right throughout
our right through our first responders, the mayors, the councils.
The system is not waiting for reviews to come back.
(04:44):
Now everyone is recognizing that we have to make change. NIMA.
I've asked Nina to step up and they've done that.
They stood up and took control of the crowd strike,
which was just another infrastructure failure. We had space weather
that the country probably wouldn't have been that aware of,
but we were right across that dealing with the utility
companies making sure that our power was managed. So we
(05:04):
are getting much better, and there's a lot of work
going on around emergency management for US as a country
because we do sort of sit at the top of
the risk index around continue to be hit with these
types of events.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, we really do. But I mean all of this
work that's been going on, I mean it started twenty
odd years ago and a lot of the technology would
have been superseded by now. So I mean, like you say,
it's impossible, well, it would be nigh impossible to get
one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think utopia would be one hundred percent where everyone
has plugged, and I think that's part of the problem.
So I think everyone's sort of been aiming for that.
I've got a slightly different view, but I think that
listen if around the world, if you look at it
and you see that it's impossible to deliver a perfect system.
Let's get as close to perfect as we can, but
let's just get it done. And so that's the work
(05:58):
that's going on at the moment. Though we'll be reporting
back to Cabinet. It is costly, make no mistake about that.
I think it's going to be a heavy investment for
us as a country, but it continues to be signaled
as one of the things that we need to move towards.
It's certainly something that I hear out on the ground
where I'm dealing with all our emergency management experts, that
(06:18):
we need a common operating picture. So I think it's
time that we really knuckled down and figure out how
to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It seems really weird that, you know, we can't even
get any kind of agreement between our weather forecasting systems
like met Service and knewhere at each other's throats. If
we can't even get that right, how on earth are
we going to get anything more common? You know anything
more sophisticated.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Look, I agree with you. You raise another very good
point and that's something else that we're looking at from
central government point of view in terms of what is
the best most efficient way to get data and information
out that gspatial information out to people. And look, I
agree with you. I remember as a local MP and
my own electric when we got hit with the Auckland
flooding events, not knowing not actually pulled the veil back
(07:04):
in terms of how how does our emergency system work.
I was really surprised as the incoming minister that there's
a whole lot of things that we need to do
that haven't been done. And that's really what my focus
is now.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well, good luck, I mean it's going to be geantuan task.
And yeah, I'll be very interested to hear any updates.
And I thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Thanks Kurrie, thanks having me on.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Mark Mitchell Ministry for Minister for Emergency Management and Recovery.
It's going to be really interesting to see if they can.
I don't know how they're going to be able to
pull it together. I think there's almost too much information
and yet ultimately when it comes down to it, regions
are on their own. You know, it's all very well
and good having the information, but if you can't, if
you can't get it to the people who need it
(07:49):
to make decisions, how are we going to be any
better off? In twenty years of work? Holy? Here can
we still haven't got anything?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
news talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!