Francesca Rudkin: The new Jobseeker sanctions are worth a try

Yesterday the Prime Minister said that the vast amount of people on Jobseeker Benefits were trying hard to find a job and meet their obligations, and before we have a conversation about changes to the Jobseeker Benefit, that is important to remember.   

But we do have a problem with the number of people on the Jobseeker Benefit, and how long they are on it.   

According to the current government, the number of people on Jobseeker Support increased by 70,000 under the previous government as the use of sanctions significantly decreased, and almost two-thirds of the people receiving this benefit have been for over a year.  

The Government’s plan clarifies what they see as the deal between the government and the Jobseeker beneficiary. They have basically said, there are some responsibilities you must meet to receive this benefit, and if you take those responsibilities seriously, then life goes on.   

The changes Cabinet have agreed to include: 

Requiring Jobseeker Support recipients to reapply every six months, instead of annually – sensible.   

Requiring all beneficiaries with work obligations to have a jobseeker profile before receiving a benefit – I would have thought that was already in place!   

The introduction of a traffic light system that informs people what is required of them and alerts them if they are not keeping up with their requirements – which is a fair move as it gives people the chance to get back on track.  

Those who aren’t interested in fulfilling their obligations could face sanctions such as money management, where half of the benefit goes onto a payment card that can only be used for a limited range of essential products and services.   

Social Development and Employment Minister Louse Upston explained this to Heather du Pleiss-Allen last night: 

“So the traffic light system: green, you're complying; orange, you've got a warning; red, there's a sanction. So, at the moment the sanctions are either a 50% reduction in the benefit or a cancellation completely. We want to introduce for parents, in particular, a maximum reduction of 50%, but instead of going to that straight away, we could then use a non-financial measure like money management, so they still get the same amount of money but less choice over how they use it.” 

Surely this is a better alternative to outright cutting of the benefit? But it is one measure which comes with some risk – the last thing we want to see is the welfare of children or family affected by this sanction.   

There is also a new community work sanction requiring beneficiaries to "build skills and confidence", and they have extended the period a failure to meet obligations counts against a beneficiary from one year to two years, which seems a bit petty.   

All in all, these are the checks and balances we would expect for people on a benefit, and hopefully they will be delivered with respect.   

But will these measures get people back into work? Alongside these obligations, we still need to keep working on breaking down barriers that prevent people finding work – especially with our young people.   

Former welfare expert advisory group member and also former BusinessNZ CEO Phil O'Reilly spoke to the Mike Hosking Breakfast this morning about the importance of this:  

“One thing that was happening very well under the last government was the idea of at least building some work capable skills. So the idea of getting people a driver's licence and a site safety certificate and so on, just so they could go get a job in construction, for example. All of that, I think, is a really important part of building the capacity for people to move off welfare. So most people do want to do that. I mean, there are some people who just want to sit around and do nothing, and they should be sanctioned, of course, but most people want a job, so we should have a bit of yin and yang in this about making sure we can do both.” 

While the Government says it has seen enough evidence more sanctions will be effective in getting people into work, Greens and Labour have argued the opposite, echoing findings from the Welfare Expert Advisory Group who deemed sanctions to be “problematic” and ineffective at getting beneficiaries into work.  

But it’s a step forward, it’s worth a try and maybe a wakeup call for younger people who have found themselves on the Jobseeker Benefit and discovered they quite like it.   

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry wood of morning's podcast from
News Talk, said.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
B yesterday, the Prime Minister said that a vast amount
of people on job seeker benefits were trying hard to
find a job and meet their obligations. And before we
have a conversation about the changes to the job seeker benefit,
that is important to remember. But we do have a
problem with the number of people on the job seeker

(00:30):
benefit and how long they are on it. According to
the current government, the number of people on job seeker
support increased by seventy thousand under the previous government as
the use of sanctions significantly decreased, and almost two thirds
of the people receiving this benefit have been on it
for over a year. So the government's plan that they

(00:54):
announced yesterday, the issues that Cabinet has approved it clarifies
what they see is the deal between the government and
the Job Seeker Benefit Fishery. They've basically said, hey, there
are some responsibilities you must meet to receive this benefit.
We want to see you're making an effort to get
a job. If you take those responsibilities seriously, life goes on.

(01:18):
So the changes that Cabinet have agreed to include requiring
Job Seeker support recipients to reply every six months instead
of annually, which I think is sensible, right, It'd be
very easy to apply, get it and go woo whoo,
that's me for the year. There is. They're requiring all
beneficiaries with work obligations to have a job seeker profile

(01:41):
before receiving a benefit.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Going.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
To be honest, I would have thought that was already
in place. I would have thought that would have been
a very sensible thing to be doing anyway, So that's
good tech. The introduction of a traffic like system that
informs people what is required of them and alerts them
if they are not keeping up with requirements is going
to be put in place, and you know we were

(02:06):
told about this a while ago. I think it's a
fair move as it gives people the chance to get
back on track and seems to be all about keeping
some good communication going. Those who aren't interested in fulfilling
their obligations could face sanctions such as money management, where
half of the benefit goes onto a payment card that
can only be used for a limited range of essential

(02:27):
products and services. Social and Development and Employment Minister Louise
Upston explained this to Heather deplicyaa last night.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
So the traffic light system green, you're complying, Orange, you've
got a warning. Read there's a sinction. So at the moment,
the sanctions are either a fifty percent reduction in the
benefit or a cancelation completely. We want to introduce for
parents in particular, the maximum reduction is fifty percent, but

(02:58):
instead of going to that straight away, we could then
use a non financial measure like money management, so they
still get the same amount of money, but less choice
over how they use it.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
So surely this is a better alternative to outright cutting
the benefit, but it is one measure which comes with
some risk because the last thing we want to see
is the welfare of children or family affected by this sanction.
There is also a new community work sanction requiring beneficiaries
to build skills and confidence, and wouldn't it be great
if they could do that in areas where they could

(03:30):
then potentially go on to be employed. And they have
extended the period a failure to meet obligation counts against
a beneficiary from one year to two years, which I'm
going to be honest, just feels a little bit petty.
That is maybe the one aspect of this, which feels
like kicking people while they're done. All in all, these
are the checks and balances we would expect for people
on a benefit, and hopefully they will be delivered with respect.

(03:55):
But while these measures get people back to work, alongside
these obligations, we still need to keep working on breaking
down barriers that prevent people finding work, especially in a
young people. Former Welfare Expert Advisory Group member also former
Business New Zealand CEO Pillow Riley. He spoke to Mike
Hosking breakfast this morning about the importance of this.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
One thing that was happening very well under the last
government was the idea of at least building some work
capable skills. So the idea of getting people a driver's
license and a site safety stige it and so on,
just so that they could go get a job in
construction for example. All of that I think is a
really important part of building the capacity for people to
move off welfare. So most people do want to do that.

(04:36):
I mean, there are some people who just want to
stick around and do nothing, and they should be sanctioned
of course, but most people want a job. So we
should have a bit of yin and yang in this
about making sure we can do both.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
While the government says it has seen enough evidence more
sanctions will be effective and getting people into work, Greens
and Labor have of course argued the opposite, echoing findings
from the Welfare Expert Advisory Group, who deemed sanctions to
be problematic and ineffective at getting beneficiaries into work. But
surely this is a step forward if we heard what

(05:06):
Phil said there. We need to work on two things
at once, don't we We need to make sure that
those checks and balances are in place so that people
don't get the impression that they're most welcome to sit
there on the job seeker benefit without making any effort
to get a job. But at the same time, we
need to make sure that we're building that capacity for
people to be able to find work, building those skills

(05:28):
up so that they are able to go and find
a job that they're going to stick at. So it
is a step forward. It's worth a try, maybe a
wake up call for long term beneficiaries and younger people
who have found themselves on the job seecret benefit and
discovered they quite like it.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen Live to
News talks that be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio