A new white paper warns there will be a significant transition of sheep and beef farms into pine forestry unless current Government policies and economic signals are reconsidered.
Called “Why Pines?”, the paper summarises the results of four recently completed research programmes, funded by Our Land and Water.
The four research programmes used different techniques and perspectives, but all found a likely increase in pine plantations on land currently used for sheep and beef farming.
White paper co-author and director of Our Land and Water, Dr Jenny Webster-Brown, said while the results “raise significant concerns”, they were not a prediction of an unavoidable future.
Dr Jenny Webster-Brown joined Kerre Woodham.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood of Morning's podcast from Newstalk
st B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A new white paper warns there'll be a significant transition
of sheep and beef farms and of pine forestry unless
current government policies and economic signals are reconsidered. The paper,
called y Pines, summarizes the results of four recently completed
research programs funded by our Land and Water. The four
(00:33):
research programs used different techniques and perspectives, but all found
a likely increase on pine plantations on land currently used
for sheep and beef farming. White paper co author and
director of our Land and Water, doctor Jenny Webster Brown,
said while the results raised significant concerns, they're not a
prediction of an unavoidable future. Dr Jenny Webster Brown joins
(00:56):
me now a very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We heard from a caller early on that the forestry
and sheepened beef can coexist, that it doesn't have to
be one or the other. Is that what you felt.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
We didn't specifically address that issue co existence of the
two land uses. What we were doing was trying to
see if there was a way forward and using modeling
to do this that would enable us to meet our
obligations under the freshwater Improvements legislation. So that pointed towards
(01:39):
pine trees, and that was a worrying trend obviously for
many reasons. You know, most New Zealanders do not wish
to see New Zealand covered in pine trees and beef
and cheap farmers in particular do not want to be
forced into that conversion. So there almost certainly is a
(02:01):
way for beef and cheek farming and pine trees to
exist as land uses and New Zealand. That wasn't exactly
the point of our modeling exercise, right, You.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Were looking at a You're looking for a widespread, national
scale discussion about the social and community impacts of so
much legislation around farming, freshwater, climate change, and the like.
And we're looking to quantify the risks and benefits of
both pine and native forestry so that policy decisions can
(02:35):
be informed around that. And do you think you have
the basis now to be able to give that sort
of advice?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I believe, so you're absolutely correct. We're trying to use
this results as a catalyst for discussions pointing out that
if we just let things go as they currently are
we are likely to end up in a place where
New Zealand doesn't necessarily want to be, and at the
cost of a lot of people trying to make a
(03:04):
living off the land. So let's think about the consequences
of our policies. Let's look at what changes need to
be made. Our white paper ended up with eight sort
of recommendations for things which could be done to change
this particular prediction.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Because it's pretty tough going, I think for our woolen
red meat exporters, not just with the weather or with legislation,
but also with international markets making it difficult and losing
their means losing a lot of our rural communities. So
there's real concern about that. Is there a way for
(03:43):
them to endure? Did you find any kind of action
points where they could they could endure going forward?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Absolutely? I mean we've come up with some ideas. We're
not about to tell them how they should not do business.
But you know a lot of the research done by
our Land of Water was focused on value change and
how to improve the value that you get from any
particular commodity, and there are you know, there are ways
forward where we could improve the value we get, particularly
(04:15):
for our wall seat. And I know there are a
lot of initiatives out there at the moment trying to
grow value from wolves strong wall especially. You know, the
options are there, and I guess this is something that
we kept coming up against. We were mandated to find
ways to use our land better while improving our fresh
water systems. There are lots of ways out there, There
(04:36):
are many opportunities, but we do keep coming up against
obstacles of the system that's in place at the moment,
of the policies that are in place at the moment.
So you know, it is time for a discussion about
what we really want for our rural communities. And there
are our land use this is what those opportunities.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Are, So what sort of things can they be doing.
I mean, most of the farming community the presentatives have met,
are really open to change into science and to doing better.
There's very few that are dragging the chain these days.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I agree, Yeah, no, it is. It's generally a very
encouraging experience talking to farmers. As you know, I'm a
freshwater scientist, and definitely we see a lot of willingness
out there and a lot of capacity and capability for
making the changes required. What we need to do is
remove some of the obstacles that currently sit in front
(05:39):
of them. You know, they could all turn there their
farms into hectares of native bush, but they can no
longer make a living. So we need to find that balance,
I guess, and at the moment our system seems to
be wired in a particular way, you know, fostering forestry
and dairy and particular land uses over others. We need
(06:00):
to look at rejegging that system so that there's more
opportunity for diversity of land causes.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What is a number of what are some basic things
that government could do to facilitate that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, one of them is sort of going on at
the moment, and that is a review of the ETS
policy because that is really of pushing the changed forestry.
And another is looking at better ways to capture the
value from native planting native forests, and that also is
(06:36):
kind of on the table with the biodiversity credits system.
I think, you know we are like it or not.
We're in the a phase of reviewing policies that are
in place at the moment, So make those reviews count
in a way that not just takes us back to
(06:58):
where we were before. That makes policies work in a
way where they work together better and where they avoid
some of these issues and obstacles that we're seeing come
up in terms of our way forward.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Because am I right that farmers weren't given credit for
existing copses of small forests of native trees?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yes, I believe that is the case. Yeah, yeah, And
there's you know, there's a few things like that, like
can you get carbon credits for other shorter term planting,
you know, and maybe not for pasture grasses because a
very short term, but you know, there are other other
carbon credits that linking them all to pine forests is
(07:41):
obviously going to drive if you tur in that direction.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
What are the negatives of pine forest planting when it
comes to fresh water?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
When it comes to fresh water, I mean, at first glance,
covering a landscape and pine trees as opposed to you know,
using it for dairyal beef and sheep is an advantage
for fresh water. It does lead to better outcomes. This
less night journal les phosphorus, and overall less sediment produced
while the forest is growing. One of the problems is
(08:13):
that once it's harvested, you can get much greater erosion
of sediment. And as we've seen on the next coast
of Zealand, you know, you get out a weather system
coming through a pretisely the wrong time and it's it's
you know, it's devastating. So the risks are quite significant
during harvesting, but while it is planted, it's a it's
(08:36):
a much better. It generates silence, nutrients and contaminants into
the water systems.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Interesting, Ginny, Thank you so much for your time, Doctor
Jenny Webster Brown, who is the author of a recently
released white paper, Wide Pines.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerrywood of Morning's podcast from Newstalk
st B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A new white paper warns there'll be a significant transition
of sheep and beef farms and of pine forestry unless
current government policies and economic signals are reconsidered. The paper,
called y Pines, summarizes the results of four recently completed
research programs funded by our Land and Water. The four
(00:33):
research programs used different techniques and perspectives, but all found
a likely increase on pine plantations on land currently used
for sheep and beef farming. White paper co author and
director of our Land and Water, doctor Jenny Webster Brown,
said while the results raised significant concerns, they're not a
prediction of an unavoidable future. Dr Jenny Webster Brown joins
(00:56):
me now a very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We heard from a caller early on that the forestry
and sheepened beef can coexist, that it doesn't have to
be one or the other. Is that what you felt.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
We didn't specifically address that issue co existence of the
two land uses. What we were doing was trying to
see if there was a way forward and using modeling
to do this that would enable us to meet our
obligations under the freshwater Improvements legislation. So that pointed towards
(01:39):
pine trees, and that was a worrying trend obviously for
many reasons. You know, most New Zealanders do not wish
to see New Zealand covered in pine trees and beef
and cheap farmers in particular do not want to be
forced into that conversion. So there almost certainly is a
(02:01):
way for beef and cheek farming and pine trees to
exist as land uses and New Zealand. That wasn't exactly
the point of our modeling exercise, right, You.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Were looking at a You're looking for a widespread, national
scale discussion about the social and community impacts of so
much legislation around farming, freshwater, climate change, and the like.
And we're looking to quantify the risks and benefits of
both pine and native forestry so that policy decisions can
(02:35):
be informed around that. And do you think you have
the basis now to be able to give that sort
of advice?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I believe, so you're absolutely correct. We're trying to use
this results as a catalyst for discussions pointing out that
if we just let things go as they currently are
we are likely to end up in a place where
New Zealand doesn't necessarily want to be, and at the
cost of a lot of people trying to make a
(03:04):
living off the land. So let's think about the consequences
of our policies. Let's look at what changes need to
be made. Our white paper ended up with eight sort
of recommendations for things which could be done to change
this particular prediction.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Because it's pretty tough going, I think for our woolen
red meat exporters, not just with the weather or with legislation,
but also with international markets making it difficult and losing
their means losing a lot of our rural communities. So
there's real concern about that. Is there a way for
(03:43):
them to endure? Did you find any kind of action
points where they could they could endure going forward?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Absolutely? I mean we've come up with some ideas. We're
not about to tell them how they should not do business.
But you know a lot of the research done by
our Land of Water was focused on value change and
how to improve the value that you get from any
particular commodity, and there are you know, there are ways
forward where we could improve the value we get, particularly
(04:15):
for our wall seat. And I know there are a
lot of initiatives out there at the moment trying to
grow value from wolves strong wall especially. You know, the
options are there, and I guess this is something that
we kept coming up against. We were mandated to find
ways to use our land better while improving our fresh
water systems. There are lots of ways out there, There
(04:36):
are many opportunities, but we do keep coming up against
obstacles of the system that's in place at the moment,
of the policies that are in place at the moment.
So you know, it is time for a discussion about
what we really want for our rural communities. And there
are our land use this is what those opportunities.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Are, So what sort of things can they be doing.
I mean, most of the farming community the presentatives have met,
are really open to change into science and to doing better.
There's very few that are dragging the chain these days.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I agree, Yeah, no, it is. It's generally a very
encouraging experience talking to farmers. As you know, I'm a
freshwater scientist, and definitely we see a lot of willingness
out there and a lot of capacity and capability for
making the changes required. What we need to do is
remove some of the obstacles that currently sit in front
(05:39):
of them. You know, they could all turn there their
farms into hectares of native bush, but they can no
longer make a living. So we need to find that balance,
I guess, and at the moment our system seems to
be wired in a particular way, you know, fostering forestry
and dairy and particular land uses over others. We need
(06:00):
to look at rejegging that system so that there's more
opportunity for diversity of land causes.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What is a number of what are some basic things
that government could do to facilitate that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, one of them is sort of going on at
the moment, and that is a review of the ETS
policy because that is really of pushing the changed forestry.
And another is looking at better ways to capture the
value from native planting native forests, and that also is
(06:36):
kind of on the table with the biodiversity credits system.
I think, you know we are like it or not.
We're in the a phase of reviewing policies that are
in place at the moment, So make those reviews count
in a way that not just takes us back to
(06:58):
where we were before. That makes policies work in a
way where they work together better and where they avoid
some of these issues and obstacles that we're seeing come
up in terms of our way forward.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Because am I right that farmers weren't given credit for
existing copses of small forests of native trees?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yes, I believe that is the case. Yeah, yeah, And
there's you know, there's a few things like that, like
can you get carbon credits for other shorter term planting,
you know, and maybe not for pasture grasses because a
very short term, but you know, there are other other
carbon credits that linking them all to pine forests is
(07:41):
obviously going to drive if you tur in that direction.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
What are the negatives of pine forest planting when it
comes to fresh water?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
When it comes to fresh water, I mean, at first glance,
covering a landscape and pine trees as opposed to you know,
using it for dairyal beef and sheep is an advantage
for fresh water. It does lead to better outcomes. This
less night journal les phosphorus, and overall less sediment produced
while the forest is growing. One of the problems is
(08:13):
that once it's harvested, you can get much greater erosion
of sediment. And as we've seen on the next coast
of Zealand, you know, you get out a weather system
coming through a pretisely the wrong time and it's it's
you know, it's devastating. So the risks are quite significant
during harvesting, but while it is planted, it's a it's
(08:36):
a much better. It generates silence, nutrients and contaminants into
the water systems.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Interesting, Ginny, Thank you so much for your time, Doctor
Jenny Webster Brown, who is the author of a recently
released white paper, Wide Pines.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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