September 9, 2024 • 12 mins
A reminder to construction workers to keep looking out for each other on World Suicide Prevention Day.
MATES in Construction's recent survey finds 85% of workers reported good mental health last year, an improvement from previous years.
But also last year, 80 workers died from suspected suicides, a jump from previous years.
Dr Chris Bowden, MATES in Construction’s Academic Director, told Kerre Woodham the participants in their study group talked a lot about the bullying, harassment, aggression, and conflict that was common on job sites, as well as the ritual hazing that often comes with being a new member of the community.
But on the plus side, he said, they heard that things are slowly changing in that culture, and people are starting to take safety and mental health and wellbeing a lot more seriously in the workplace.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News
Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Today is World Suicide Prevention Day, a time to reflect
on New Zealand's confronting suicide stats and confronting they are.
Latest research from Mates and Construction shows in twenty twenty three,
eighty eight zero construction workers died from suspected suicide, a
big jump from previous years. To discuss as I'm joined
(00:32):
by Mates and Construction academic director doctor Cris Boud and
a very good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You, Curre Kerry CURLEDA eighty.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Is a hell of a lot. But then you multiply
that by the ripple effect that those deaths have caused,
all those devastated families. That's a lot of people that
have been affected. What on earth is going on?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
There's a lot behind us, and it's pretty complex. We've
seen an increase in the stresses that our construction workers
are dealing with in the last few years, and I
think that's kind of reflected in the numbers and also
the number of people seeking how.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It's this. I mean, you also look at the days
off work as a result of self harming incident and
the numbers of people who have had to take time
off for self harming, and that is enormous too. I
would have thought it would have been worse when everything
was shut down and nobody was able to work or
get out and look after themselves. But is it just
(01:36):
playing catch up to previous years or.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I think there's a lot of things going on. I mean,
during COVID and the shutdown and lockdown, we saw a
lot of workers isolated from socially isolated from their workmates,
their colleagues, the natural support system that is there in
the workplace for a lot of people, you know, that
(02:00):
keeps people going through really tough times, and all of
a sudden they find themselves at home dealing with a
lot of financial stresses, a lot of family pressures, you know,
physical exhaustion, concern about job and security. Am I going
to have a job to go back to? And so,
you know, I think since we've come out of that lockdown,
(02:21):
we're seeing the accumulated impact of this, but also a
number of other stresses that are impacting families and the
wider construction sector.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Is it any particular age group or any particular particular
sector of the construction industry that are affected more than others?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, yeah. We actually the research that we've just completed
recently with the Wellbeing survey and the focus groups have
actually helped us drill down a bit more into who
our most vulnerable groups are and try and understand, you know,
who might we need to be providing a bit more
tailored support to and reaching out a bit more to.
(03:02):
And in particular, it's Rangatahi, our young Mari apprentices, It's
our female construction workers, it's labor higher and lower paid
construction workers, those with disabilities and physical impairments often as
a result of their work, and also our rainbow community
(03:28):
as well.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Is bullying still an issue on construction sites? That used
to be a big thing of you know, the old
guys thought it was a bit of harmless fun to
rag the apprentices, but that's not how it felt when
you're on the receiving end of it. Is that still
an issue?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It is still an issue. Our participants in our focus
group study talked a lot about the bullying, the harassment,
the aggression, the really negative relationships and conflict that was
happening on the job site, particularly for our female construction
workers and for our young workers as well, who had
(04:07):
that you know, exposure to, you know, kind of the
hardened up attitude, the you know, why can't you just
deal with this, and that whole kind of ritual hazing.
You know that often goes with you know, being a
new member of the community. But on the plus side,
we also heard that, you know, things are slowly changing
(04:30):
in that culture and that you know, people are starting
to take safety and mental health and wellbeing a lot
more seriously in the workplace and are trying to advocate
for and support and be allies to those people that
are often subject to that stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I would have thought the young people havn't grown up
in at a time where you're told to ask for help,
where mental health and well being is considered very important.
I would have thought they would have known to ask
for help before things got too tough.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, you know, the whole knowing how to ask for
help and where to ask for help and then removing
those barriers to asking for help still an issue. But
you know, with programs like Mates and construction on the
work site, we're trying to make it as easy as
possible for people to ask for help, but more importantly,
(05:23):
for people to offer help to those that they see struggling.
All that they're worried about. You know, if they're seeing
people stressed or you know, concerned about their mental health
and wellbeing, you know, to actually reach out and say,
hey mate, you know, let's have a bit of a conversation,
let's have a bit of a chat about what's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Although you know a lot of people who are really
suffering put on that bright smile and that you know,
answer back and they present as the chip of chappie
when in fact they're just doing that to hide the
fact that they are just so unhappy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And I think that came through in the survey, the
wellbeing survey, that a lot of people are trying to
manage as best as they can and protect their family
infarno from the stress at work. And I think what
we're seeing in you know, the number of debts and
also the big impact on those left behind is that
(06:19):
you know, people are getting to a point where they're
just struggling to hold it and you know, they're struggling
to cope with it and manage it. And you know,
the message is very clearly that help is available, you know,
ask for help and offer help.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It's interesting because a lot of you know, a lot
of people who can express themselves, who know words, who
master words, they're able to put into words what they're feeling.
It must be a real struggle if words aren't your thing,
if you're more used to doing stuff than chatting about stuff,
it must be really hard to express just what you're
(06:57):
feeling if words aren't your tools.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I think that's that's right, and I think for a
lot of guys still, you know, that's the real struggle,
you know, to be vulnerable to tell somebody that you know,
you need some support, you need some help, and you know,
we try to encourage you know, that presence support as well.
You know that sometimes it's not words that that matters.
(07:24):
It's just sitting with your mate having lunch, you know,
having a bit of a yarm and just letting them
know that they're not alone. Sometimes that's enough to just
get somebody through until you can find them that help.
But yeah, it is making making it as easy as
possible to ask for help. And like the eight hundred number,
the confidential helpline that makes is God as well has
(07:47):
been an absolute brilliant tool for you know, encouraging people
to reach out for that help privately and confidentially. And
to get the support when they need it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's amazing that you operate twenty four seven.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, yeah, abspletely.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's a triumph. And how many calls are you taking?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Oh, thousands of calls? Yeah, you know, thousands of calls
a year. And the case workers, the field officers, you know,
the connectors, the assist trained guys and women out there
who are working hard for mates are doing an absolute
brilliant job connecting people with support. You know, the eight
(08:26):
hundred number is an absolute great tool ASB is kindly
sponsoring that going forward, and so that's going to be
a really great tool in our talkit and that's.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Our eight hundred support line. Yep, yeah, Okay. The other
thing I was just thinking back to, reflecting back to
I talked to Auckland Grammars Tim O'Connor about getting kids
back into school, and the message coming through was that
you know, sometimes even if you don't want to, even
if you're anxious, even if you're worried, you have to
(08:58):
face up to it and you will feel better for
doing that. You will feel like a winner instead of
a victim for fronting up and being a bit tougher.
I know we've worked very hard to get rid of
the you know, man up and toughen up and don't complain.
But have we gone too far so that, I mean,
there'd been nothing worse than feeling like a powerless, helpless child.
(09:20):
You want to feel like a like a man, You
want to feel like you can deal with things.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, I think there's I think there's two parts to that.
Like I do quite a bit of resiliency research as well,
so I know I know a bit about personal resilience,
but also social resilience. And you know, you can equip
young people with you know, the attitude and the optimism
and you know the kind of you know, some some
(09:50):
obstacles and barriers. You just have to give it a
go and do your best and manage the best you can.
But unless we change workplaces, and it's the same for schools,
to tell you the truth, you know, if unless we
make workplaces a more supportive place to come to, you know,
(10:11):
just focusing on individual resiliency is not enough. We actually
need to make workplaces and schools more safe for people
to come back to. You know, it's pretty hard to
come back to the job if what you're dealing with
is harassment and bullying, you feel like you're not valued,
or you're underpaid, or that you know, the stress is
(10:33):
just too great. So we really need to work on
workplace culture environment as well as you know, equipping young
people and workers with you know, the mental attitude and
skills to be able to deal with stress.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So just finally, what would you ask of those who
run construction sites, who are the decision makers in the industry,
what single thing could they do to affect a safer
work environment for their workers.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think for me to prioritize mental health and worlbeing
for their workers, to you know, to make it a
top priority and not just say it's the top priority,
but actually put things in place to to show that
commitment to mental supporting mental health and workplace well being.
(11:21):
You know, that could be in terms of providing a
living wage for all workers. It could be providing toolbox
talks and support, or inviting mates to come and partner
up and provide support on site. There's a bunch of
things that employers and the sector can do, but there's
(11:43):
also things that the government can do. There's things that
the community can do and families can do, and I
think it's you know, in relation to suicide prevention. We've
we've all got a part to play.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Thank you for your time, Doctor Chris Bowden, academic director,
Mates in Construction.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, Listen live, can
use talks that be from nine am week or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News
Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Today is World Suicide Prevention Day, a time to reflect
on New Zealand's confronting suicide stats and confronting they are.
Latest research from Mates and Construction shows in twenty twenty three,
eighty eight zero construction workers died from suspected suicide, a
big jump from previous years. To discuss as I'm joined
(00:32):
by Mates and Construction academic director doctor Cris Boud and
a very good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You, Curre Kerry CURLEDA eighty.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Is a hell of a lot. But then you multiply
that by the ripple effect that those deaths have caused,
all those devastated families. That's a lot of people that
have been affected. What on earth is going on?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
There's a lot behind us, and it's pretty complex. We've
seen an increase in the stresses that our construction workers
are dealing with in the last few years, and I
think that's kind of reflected in the numbers and also
the number of people seeking how.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It's this. I mean, you also look at the days
off work as a result of self harming incident and
the numbers of people who have had to take time
off for self harming, and that is enormous too. I
would have thought it would have been worse when everything
was shut down and nobody was able to work or
get out and look after themselves. But is it just
(01:36):
playing catch up to previous years or.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I think there's a lot of things going on. I mean,
during COVID and the shutdown and lockdown, we saw a
lot of workers isolated from socially isolated from their workmates,
their colleagues, the natural support system that is there in
the workplace for a lot of people, you know, that
(02:00):
keeps people going through really tough times, and all of
a sudden they find themselves at home dealing with a
lot of financial stresses, a lot of family pressures, you know,
physical exhaustion, concern about job and security. Am I going
to have a job to go back to? And so,
you know, I think since we've come out of that lockdown,
(02:21):
we're seeing the accumulated impact of this, but also a
number of other stresses that are impacting families and the
wider construction sector.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Is it any particular age group or any particular particular
sector of the construction industry that are affected more than others?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, yeah. We actually the research that we've just completed
recently with the Wellbeing survey and the focus groups have
actually helped us drill down a bit more into who
our most vulnerable groups are and try and understand, you know,
who might we need to be providing a bit more
tailored support to and reaching out a bit more to.
(03:02):
And in particular, it's Rangatahi, our young Mari apprentices, It's
our female construction workers, it's labor higher and lower paid
construction workers, those with disabilities and physical impairments often as
a result of their work, and also our rainbow community
(03:28):
as well.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Is bullying still an issue on construction sites? That used
to be a big thing of you know, the old
guys thought it was a bit of harmless fun to
rag the apprentices, but that's not how it felt when
you're on the receiving end of it. Is that still
an issue?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It is still an issue. Our participants in our focus
group study talked a lot about the bullying, the harassment,
the aggression, the really negative relationships and conflict that was
happening on the job site, particularly for our female construction
workers and for our young workers as well, who had
(04:07):
that you know, exposure to, you know, kind of the
hardened up attitude, the you know, why can't you just
deal with this, and that whole kind of ritual hazing.
You know that often goes with you know, being a
new member of the community. But on the plus side,
we also heard that, you know, things are slowly changing
(04:30):
in that culture and that you know, people are starting
to take safety and mental health and wellbeing a lot
more seriously in the workplace and are trying to advocate
for and support and be allies to those people that
are often subject to that stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I would have thought the young people havn't grown up
in at a time where you're told to ask for help,
where mental health and well being is considered very important.
I would have thought they would have known to ask
for help before things got too tough.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, you know, the whole knowing how to ask for
help and where to ask for help and then removing
those barriers to asking for help still an issue. But
you know, with programs like Mates and construction on the
work site, we're trying to make it as easy as
possible for people to ask for help, but more importantly,
(05:23):
for people to offer help to those that they see struggling.
All that they're worried about. You know, if they're seeing
people stressed or you know, concerned about their mental health
and wellbeing, you know, to actually reach out and say,
hey mate, you know, let's have a bit of a conversation,
let's have a bit of a chat about what's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Although you know a lot of people who are really
suffering put on that bright smile and that you know,
answer back and they present as the chip of chappie
when in fact they're just doing that to hide the
fact that they are just so unhappy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And I think that came through in the survey, the
wellbeing survey, that a lot of people are trying to
manage as best as they can and protect their family
infarno from the stress at work. And I think what
we're seeing in you know, the number of debts and
also the big impact on those left behind is that
(06:19):
you know, people are getting to a point where they're
just struggling to hold it and you know, they're struggling
to cope with it and manage it. And you know,
the message is very clearly that help is available, you know,
ask for help and offer help.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It's interesting because a lot of you know, a lot
of people who can express themselves, who know words, who
master words, they're able to put into words what they're feeling.
It must be a real struggle if words aren't your thing,
if you're more used to doing stuff than chatting about stuff,
it must be really hard to express just what you're
(06:57):
feeling if words aren't your tools.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I think that's that's right, and I think for a
lot of guys still, you know, that's the real struggle,
you know, to be vulnerable to tell somebody that you know,
you need some support, you need some help, and you know,
we try to encourage you know, that presence support as well.
You know that sometimes it's not words that that matters.
(07:24):
It's just sitting with your mate having lunch, you know,
having a bit of a yarm and just letting them
know that they're not alone. Sometimes that's enough to just
get somebody through until you can find them that help.
But yeah, it is making making it as easy as
possible to ask for help. And like the eight hundred number,
the confidential helpline that makes is God as well has
(07:47):
been an absolute brilliant tool for you know, encouraging people
to reach out for that help privately and confidentially. And
to get the support when they need it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's amazing that you operate twenty four seven.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, yeah, abspletely.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's a triumph. And how many calls are you taking?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Oh, thousands of calls? Yeah, you know, thousands of calls
a year. And the case workers, the field officers, you know,
the connectors, the assist trained guys and women out there
who are working hard for mates are doing an absolute
brilliant job connecting people with support. You know, the eight
(08:26):
hundred number is an absolute great tool ASB is kindly
sponsoring that going forward, and so that's going to be
a really great tool in our talkit and that's.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Our eight hundred support line. Yep, yeah, Okay. The other
thing I was just thinking back to, reflecting back to
I talked to Auckland Grammars Tim O'Connor about getting kids
back into school, and the message coming through was that
you know, sometimes even if you don't want to, even
if you're anxious, even if you're worried, you have to
(08:58):
face up to it and you will feel better for
doing that. You will feel like a winner instead of
a victim for fronting up and being a bit tougher.
I know we've worked very hard to get rid of
the you know, man up and toughen up and don't complain.
But have we gone too far so that, I mean,
there'd been nothing worse than feeling like a powerless, helpless child.
(09:20):
You want to feel like a like a man, You
want to feel like you can deal with things.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, I think there's I think there's two parts to that.
Like I do quite a bit of resiliency research as well,
so I know I know a bit about personal resilience,
but also social resilience. And you know, you can equip
young people with you know, the attitude and the optimism
and you know the kind of you know, some some
(09:50):
obstacles and barriers. You just have to give it a
go and do your best and manage the best you can.
But unless we change workplaces, and it's the same for schools,
to tell you the truth, you know, if unless we
make workplaces a more supportive place to come to, you know,
(10:11):
just focusing on individual resiliency is not enough. We actually
need to make workplaces and schools more safe for people
to come back to. You know, it's pretty hard to
come back to the job if what you're dealing with
is harassment and bullying, you feel like you're not valued,
or you're underpaid, or that you know, the stress is
(10:33):
just too great. So we really need to work on
workplace culture environment as well as you know, equipping young
people and workers with you know, the mental attitude and
skills to be able to deal with stress.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So just finally, what would you ask of those who
run construction sites, who are the decision makers in the industry,
what single thing could they do to affect a safer
work environment for their workers.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think for me to prioritize mental health and worlbeing
for their workers, to you know, to make it a
top priority and not just say it's the top priority,
but actually put things in place to to show that
commitment to mental supporting mental health and workplace well being.
(11:21):
You know, that could be in terms of providing a
living wage for all workers. It could be providing toolbox
talks and support, or inviting mates to come and partner
up and provide support on site. There's a bunch of
things that employers and the sector can do, but there's
(11:43):
also things that the government can do. There's things that
the community can do and families can do, and I
think it's you know, in relation to suicide prevention. We've
we've all got a part to play.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Thank you for your time, Doctor Chris Bowden, academic director,
Mates in Construction.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, Listen live, can
use talks that be from nine am week or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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