It’s not just the Government who are taking a look at building consents.
Hastings District Council has been looking into a more risk-based approach to building consents, aiming to bring the costs down for both building firms and consumers.
Council CEO Nigel Bickle told Kerre Woodham that the current system was put in place with the 2004 Building Act in response to the significant damages and issues caused by leaky homes.
He said that the system was always meant to be recalibrated.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood of Mornings podcast from News
Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
There is cautious bipartisan support for the government's proposed building
consents scheme. Businesses with a track record of delivering bigger
projects will be able to access streamlined consenting. Qualified trades
people will be able to forego inspections for low risk
builds through the opten self certification scheme, and a piece
(00:32):
in the Post this morning, Luke Malpis talked about the
fact that Hastings District Council has in fact been doing
its own work on consents, driven by their Chief Executive,
Nigel Beckle, who knew something had to change. Hastings District
Council CEO Nigel Beckle joins me, now a very very
good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Good morning carry How are you very well?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Did you know that the government was working on something
similar or was this just coincidence?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, Look, we did a review into our own building
consent function at Tastings District Council and so the guts
of our own review, said Locke, we are really risk
averse and there are opportunities to take more risk based approach,
which we're in the process of doing. But one of
(01:20):
the recommendations out of the review was to say, well,
this is really an issue at the national level, and
so we did a big piece of work that we
furnished to the ministers that basically just said there are
really big opportunities to streamline the consenting system, taking a
risk based approach and to take some costs out of
housing supply for both consumers and for building firms.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And yet you understood why why councils were so risk
averse because you had worked in the industry when the
leaky buildings crisis came to a head.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yes. So the author of the report, Dave Kelly, the
former chief executive of Registered Master Builders, was also a
former council chief executive and he was a league get Envy.
So both of us were involved in the response to
the leaky homes crisis. And I think it's really important
to remember that, you know, the current regime was put
in place with the two thousand and four Building Act
(02:18):
and it was a response to quote Don Hunt, who
did the Ministerial inquiry into leaky homes a major market
failure in New Zealand that it posts over twenty billion
dollars worth of costs largely on homeowners. So and Don
described it in his ministerial inquiry as a bolts embracest
system that required councils to be accredited as building consent
(02:39):
authieties required builders and designers and architects to get licensed.
But it was always imagined that the system would get recalibrated.
And the thing that we pointed out so the ministers
was that the concept of taking a risk based approach
wasn't new. In fact, the Key government changed the Building
Act in twenty twelve and enabled in law for a
(03:01):
risk based approach to be taken, but it was never implemented.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Was that in ressentants to christ Church?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, it wasn't in response to christ Church. Some work
was done by the industry with MV back in sort
of two thousand and nine twenty ten. Probably looking back
on the time, was probably a combination of the earthquake
Christ you know, to christ New to earthquakes, the establishment
of NB. Probably lots of reasons why it wasn't implemented.
But the law is in place, it's never been repealed,
(03:30):
it just needs to be implemented. So we think that
what's being proposed has some merits. So if you're a
group home building company that's got a strong balance sheet
as offering consumers home warranty insurance. You're using licensed builders
and designers and architects, and you're building repeatable, low risk
(03:51):
timber frame homes. Right. Yeah, absolutely should be able to
take a much more streamlined approach. The key question is
about putting risk where it belongs. And part of the
reason that counsels are risk of rse IS is when
things go wrong, they're often the last man standing having
to pick up yes the bill.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, So everybody has said the devil is in the
detail direct So what is the detail? What would be
an ideal gold standard detail that that is informed by
the mistakes of the past and has learned from the
mistakes of the past.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
So I think a really big opportunity for government, local
government and industry working together. So but on you could
take a scenario of saying, take any any sizeable group
home building company in New Zealand. It's part of registered
master Builders. So take a GJ Gardner or a Jenian
home that has good systems and processes that someone would
(04:53):
have to certify, like MB that offers you know, home
warranty insurance, has insurance protection as building standard, repeatable, low
risk and ale level tumber framed houses using licensed building practitioners.
You've got to believe that there is a massive opportunity
(05:13):
to streamline the consenting system and to take cost out
for both consumers who are paying for this and to
building building firms. So the devil was in the detail.
But I think there's real opportunities to do what was
always envisaged in terms of recalibrating the building system once
you'd put all of those things in place, like the
(05:33):
licensed building practitioners regie.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
When you lock down top down on New Zealand, and
what we've done, like we built homes that were made
to last back in nineteen hundred and nineteen thirty, nineteen fifty.
All of a sudden we went Hootswaheans had your Italian
you know, the villas on the on top of the hill.
(05:58):
Anything went, any kind of materials went, And then we've
lurched back again so that it is so expensive and
difficult to build a home that there's going to be
a generation lockdown of ever owning a home.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, and that's what we tend to do. And then
so again I go back to Don Hun who led
the ministerial inquiry into leaky homes and that was, you know,
it was a massive market failure in New Zealand, right
with big consequences for New Zealanders who lost a lot
of their asset values through leaky homes. And he said
it is a Belts embraces response initially, you know, so
(06:33):
you do tend to have a strong regulatory response from
a market failure. I think the challenge has been it's
nearly twenty years since those changes, and you've got to
be able to recalibrate the system. And on the face
of it, you know, there are lots of opportunities to
streamline the consenting system by taking a it's not a
(06:56):
you know, it's not like you describing in the nineties
and stuff just a free for all and anything goes,
but actually taking a deliberate risk based approach around where
is the risk tolerances. You know, if there are low risk,
repeatable houses being built by companies that are doing this,
you know, in the hundreds every year using licensed professionals,
(07:17):
that's probably a good place to start.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Just a couple more questions. I've got Helen looking at
me saying, hurry out, but you are very very good
on this and so Hu jolly well should be given
the work you've done. The lack of competition that concerns
some people. Have we learned nothing about, you know, creating
monopolies and making it difficult for other players to get
into the market.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, And so I think one of the things, and
in the reports that we did which canvas the last
twenty years, one of the things that we seem to
be really good at is just every couple of years
doing the same old reviews of Join and several liability
of competition on building materials. It's almost some of the
things are so big to solve that we keep looking
at the big things there's opposed to where are some
(08:03):
things that we could start with that would actually make
make a difference for New Zealands in terms of consumers.
And so I know that the current government and the
current Minister is going to again lock at Jordan and
several liability, and I know whether the competition, you know,
in terms of building materials and the duopoly and all
of that's in play. But I think the opportunity is
(08:25):
actually to start with something that we can do whilst
we look at these much bigger things, Because I think
sometimes we continue to look at the big things but
don't make any yes, don't make any change.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Getting paralyzed again. And my only other question would be,
do you really think that the quality of work being
done by current tradees is up to scratch to allow
them to self certify, especially as some of the true
craftsmen are starting to get out of the business.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Now, yeah, I mean again, that's something that's going to
need to be work through. But I think there would
be a bigger, you know, a bigger question that would
need to be asked. I mean ty years ago. As
part of that response to market failure, we introduced huge
amounts of huge costs associated with occupational regulation and requiring
builders and designers and architects to be licensed. And if
(09:19):
you can't take a risk based approach, we should be
probably asking well, what is the point of that whole
occupational regulation regime?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yep, good questions? Is your report available for anyone to read?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, yeah, yep.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Where do we find it?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, I'll flick you a copy and I'll probably have
posted it up on the website. But certainly we've provided
it to everyone that's that's that's interested, And as I say,
it's nothing else. That's a pretty factual account of the
last sort of twenty five years in New Zealands building industry.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I would find that fascinating. Thank you very much for
your time. I appreciate it. Nigel Bikel Hastings District Council
CEO News Talk Said B.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
For more from kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talk Said Be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerrywood of Mornings podcast from News
Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
There is cautious bipartisan support for the government's proposed building
consents scheme. Businesses with a track record of delivering bigger
projects will be able to access streamlined consenting. Qualified trades
people will be able to forego inspections for low risk
builds through the opten self certification scheme, and a piece
(00:32):
in the Post this morning, Luke Malpis talked about the
fact that Hastings District Council has in fact been doing
its own work on consents, driven by their Chief Executive,
Nigel Beckle, who knew something had to change. Hastings District
Council CEO Nigel Beckle joins me, now a very very
good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Good morning carry How are you very well?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Did you know that the government was working on something
similar or was this just coincidence?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, Look, we did a review into our own building
consent function at Tastings District Council and so the guts
of our own review, said Locke, we are really risk
averse and there are opportunities to take more risk based approach,
which we're in the process of doing. But one of
(01:20):
the recommendations out of the review was to say, well,
this is really an issue at the national level, and
so we did a big piece of work that we
furnished to the ministers that basically just said there are
really big opportunities to streamline the consenting system, taking a
risk based approach and to take some costs out of
housing supply for both consumers and for building firms.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And yet you understood why why councils were so risk
averse because you had worked in the industry when the
leaky buildings crisis came to a head.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yes. So the author of the report, Dave Kelly, the
former chief executive of Registered Master Builders, was also a
former council chief executive and he was a league get Envy.
So both of us were involved in the response to
the leaky homes crisis. And I think it's really important
to remember that, you know, the current regime was put
in place with the two thousand and four Building Act
(02:18):
and it was a response to quote Don Hunt, who
did the Ministerial inquiry into leaky homes a major market
failure in New Zealand that it posts over twenty billion
dollars worth of costs largely on homeowners. So and Don
described it in his ministerial inquiry as a bolts embracest
system that required councils to be accredited as building consent
(02:39):
authieties required builders and designers and architects to get licensed.
But it was always imagined that the system would get recalibrated.
And the thing that we pointed out so the ministers
was that the concept of taking a risk based approach
wasn't new. In fact, the Key government changed the Building
Act in twenty twelve and enabled in law for a
(03:01):
risk based approach to be taken, but it was never implemented.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Was that in ressentants to christ Church?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, it wasn't in response to christ Church. Some work
was done by the industry with MV back in sort
of two thousand and nine twenty ten. Probably looking back
on the time, was probably a combination of the earthquake
Christ you know, to christ New to earthquakes, the establishment
of NB. Probably lots of reasons why it wasn't implemented.
But the law is in place, it's never been repealed,
(03:30):
it just needs to be implemented. So we think that
what's being proposed has some merits. So if you're a
group home building company that's got a strong balance sheet
as offering consumers home warranty insurance. You're using licensed builders
and designers and architects, and you're building repeatable, low risk
(03:51):
timber frame homes. Right. Yeah, absolutely should be able to
take a much more streamlined approach. The key question is
about putting risk where it belongs. And part of the
reason that counsels are risk of rse IS is when
things go wrong, they're often the last man standing having
to pick up yes the bill.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, So everybody has said the devil is in the
detail direct So what is the detail? What would be
an ideal gold standard detail that that is informed by
the mistakes of the past and has learned from the
mistakes of the past.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
So I think a really big opportunity for government, local
government and industry working together. So but on you could
take a scenario of saying, take any any sizeable group
home building company in New Zealand. It's part of registered
master Builders. So take a GJ Gardner or a Jenian
home that has good systems and processes that someone would
(04:53):
have to certify, like MB that offers you know, home
warranty insurance, has insurance protection as building standard, repeatable, low
risk and ale level tumber framed houses using licensed building practitioners.
You've got to believe that there is a massive opportunity
(05:13):
to streamline the consenting system and to take cost out
for both consumers who are paying for this and to
building building firms. So the devil was in the detail.
But I think there's real opportunities to do what was
always envisaged in terms of recalibrating the building system once
you'd put all of those things in place, like the
(05:33):
licensed building practitioners regie.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
When you lock down top down on New Zealand, and
what we've done, like we built homes that were made
to last back in nineteen hundred and nineteen thirty, nineteen fifty.
All of a sudden we went Hootswaheans had your Italian
you know, the villas on the on top of the hill.
(05:58):
Anything went, any kind of materials went, And then we've
lurched back again so that it is so expensive and
difficult to build a home that there's going to be
a generation lockdown of ever owning a home.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, and that's what we tend to do. And then
so again I go back to Don Hun who led
the ministerial inquiry into leaky homes and that was, you know,
it was a massive market failure in New Zealand, right
with big consequences for New Zealanders who lost a lot
of their asset values through leaky homes. And he said
it is a Belts embraces response initially, you know, so
(06:33):
you do tend to have a strong regulatory response from
a market failure. I think the challenge has been it's
nearly twenty years since those changes, and you've got to
be able to recalibrate the system. And on the face
of it, you know, there are lots of opportunities to
streamline the consenting system by taking a it's not a
(06:56):
you know, it's not like you describing in the nineties
and stuff just a free for all and anything goes,
but actually taking a deliberate risk based approach around where
is the risk tolerances. You know, if there are low risk,
repeatable houses being built by companies that are doing this,
you know, in the hundreds every year using licensed professionals,
(07:17):
that's probably a good place to start.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Just a couple more questions. I've got Helen looking at
me saying, hurry out, but you are very very good
on this and so Hu jolly well should be given
the work you've done. The lack of competition that concerns
some people. Have we learned nothing about, you know, creating
monopolies and making it difficult for other players to get
into the market.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, And so I think one of the things, and
in the reports that we did which canvas the last
twenty years, one of the things that we seem to
be really good at is just every couple of years
doing the same old reviews of Join and several liability
of competition on building materials. It's almost some of the
things are so big to solve that we keep looking
at the big things there's opposed to where are some
(08:03):
things that we could start with that would actually make
make a difference for New Zealands in terms of consumers.
And so I know that the current government and the
current Minister is going to again lock at Jordan and
several liability, and I know whether the competition, you know,
in terms of building materials and the duopoly and all
of that's in play. But I think the opportunity is
(08:25):
actually to start with something that we can do whilst
we look at these much bigger things, Because I think
sometimes we continue to look at the big things but
don't make any yes, don't make any change.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Getting paralyzed again. And my only other question would be,
do you really think that the quality of work being
done by current tradees is up to scratch to allow
them to self certify, especially as some of the true
craftsmen are starting to get out of the business.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Now, yeah, I mean again, that's something that's going to
need to be work through. But I think there would
be a bigger, you know, a bigger question that would
need to be asked. I mean ty years ago. As
part of that response to market failure, we introduced huge
amounts of huge costs associated with occupational regulation and requiring
builders and designers and architects to be licensed. And if
(09:19):
you can't take a risk based approach, we should be
probably asking well, what is the point of that whole
occupational regulation regime?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yep, good questions? Is your report available for anyone to read?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, yeah, yep.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Where do we find it?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, I'll flick you a copy and I'll probably have
posted it up on the website. But certainly we've provided
it to everyone that's that's that's interested, And as I say,
it's nothing else. That's a pretty factual account of the
last sort of twenty five years in New Zealands building industry.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I would find that fascinating. Thank you very much for
your time. I appreciate it. Nigel Bikel Hastings District Council
CEO News Talk Said B.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
For more from kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talk Said Be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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