Kerre Woodham: Who actually wants the expanded citizen's arrest powers?

Well, after a spirited discussion yesterday on the potential changes to the laws around citizen’s arrests, the press conference announced the actual changes. They are amending the Crimes Act so that citizens can intervene to stop any crimes act events at any time of the day, requiring that a person making an arrest contact police and follow police instructions. Clarifying that restraint can be used when reasonable when making an arrest and changing the defensive property provisions to the Crimes Act so it's clear that reasonable force may be used.  

Almost immediately, a wide range of groups and organisations slammed the proposals. The Police Association says the changes are highly risky and could have unintended consequences. Police Association President Chris Cahill told Mike Hosking this morning that the reforms are risky and unnecessary, and says it's not worth getting hurt or even killed for a few bucks or some ciggies.  

“I mean, look at dairies for instance, they don't have security guards, and they have shopkeepers and family people, and there's going to be an expectation that they do it, especially if they're working for some boss who thinks they should do it. But even security guards, you look at some of these security guards – they're not really highly trained they're not highly equipped. To think of police officers, we've got all the equipment, all the training, still get assaulted every day, some really seriously. So, I don't mean to be the humbug. I get why people think on the face of it, a good idea, but when you peel it back, it's pretty risky stuff.” 

Retail NZ chief executive Carolyn Young said member businesses had “grave fears” about the proposals. “The great majority of members we have consulted have made it clear that only police should have powers to detain offenders”, she said. “Most retailers train their staff to prioritise their own safety rather than try to recover stolen goods. We cannot condone retail workers putting themselves into dangerous and volatile situations”.  

The Employers and Manufacturers Association said business owners were being encouraged to put themselves and their staff in harm's way. They fear it will lead to an escalation in violence – if an offender believes they'll be met with aggression, they'll come prepared. “Far from discouraging thefts or aggression and retail workplaces”, the EMA says, they believe this will result in “swarming behaviour in which a number of offenders will be present to create numerical superiority, those are outcomes no one wants”. Goes without saying that the unions and Labour hate the proposals.  

To me, what is really alarming is the group that LOVES the idea of beefed up powers for citizens. Do you know who LOVES the idea? Destiny Church. Destiny Church leader Brian Tamaki says he's “excited” to receive “increased powers to police, where law and order has failed”. If Tamaki wants something, I don't. The idea of his boofheads going around deciding what's right and what's wrong and who's a criminal who's not gives me the heebies.  

But the thing that gets me is, did the government not ask the police, and Retail NZ, and the EMA whether they wanted to increase the powers of citizen’s arrest? Call me naive, and in fact you did yesterday, and in fact I accept that I was, but I would have thought that before you set up a working group, that the working group was as a result of Retail NZ, and the EMA, and the police, and the dairy owners saying we really need to do something about these citizen’s arrest powers? We really need to beef them up. I would have thought that it would have the support of Retail NZ and the EMA and all these pivotal groups that are actually involved at the coal face. If they say no, no thanks very much, leave it to the police, and the police say no, no, we're highly trained and we still get hurt, imagine what can happen to

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks,
he'd be well.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
After a spirited discussion yesterday on the potential changes to
the laws around citizens' arrests, the press conference yesterday announced
the actual changes, and they are amending the Crimes Act
so that citizens can intervene to stop any Crimes Act
defense at any time of the day. Remember those silly
rules about the times of during the night when you

(00:35):
could do so. Requiring that a person making an arrest
contact police and follow police instructions, clarifying that restraint can
be used when reasonable when making an arrest, and changing
the defense of property provisions to the Crimes Act so
it's clear that reasonable force may be used almost immediately.

(00:56):
A wide range of groups and organizations slammed the proposals.
The Police Association says the changes are highly risky and
could have unintended consequences. Police Association President Chris Carhole told
My Costing this morning that the reforms are risky and
unnecessary and says it's not worth getting hurt or even

(01:18):
killed for a few bucks or some cigies.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
I mean, look at dairies for instance. They don't have
security guards. They have shopkeepers and family people, and there's
going to be an expectation that they do, especially if
they're working for some boss who thinks they should do it.
But even security guards. You look at some of these
security guards, they're not really highly trained. They're not highly equipped.
I think of police officers. We've got all the equipment

(01:42):
and all the training, still get assaulted every day, some
really seriously. So I don't mean to be the humbug.
I get why people think on the facebook's a good idea,
but when you peel it back, it's pretty risky.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Start Retail end Z chief executive Carolyn Young said member
businesses had grave fears about the proposals. The great majority
of members we've consulted have made it clear that only
police should have powers to detain offenders. She said. Most
retailers train their staff to prioritize their own safety rather
than try to recover stolen goods. We cannot condone retail

(02:18):
workers putting themselves into dangerous and volatile situations. The Employers
and Manufacturers Associations said business owners were being encouraged to
put themselves in their staff and harm's way. They fear
it will lead to an escalation and violence. If an
offender believes they'll be met with aggression, they'll come prepared
far from discouraging thefts or aggression and retail workplaces. The

(02:41):
EMA says they believe this will result in swarming behavior
and which a number of offenders will be present to
create numerical superiority. Those are outcomes no one wants. Goes
without saying that the unions in labor hate the proposals.
To me, what is really alarming is the group that
loves the idea of beefed up powers for citizens. Do

(03:04):
you know who loves the idea? Can't Wait? Destiny Church.
Destiny Church leader brand Tummocky says he's excited to receive
increased powers to police where law and order has failed.
If Tommocky wants something, I don't. The idea of his
buffhead's going around deciding what's right and what's wrong and
who's a criminal who's not gives me the he bees.

(03:27):
But the thing that gets me is did the government
not ask the police and retail in z and the
EMA whether they wanted to increase the powers of citizens arrest?
Call me naive, and in fact you did yesterday, And
in fact I accept that I was, but I would

(03:47):
have thought that before you set up a working group,
that the working group was as a result of Retail
in Z and the EMA and the police and the
dairy owners saying moman, heck, we really need to do
something about these citizens arrest powers. We really need to
beef them up. I would have thought that it would
have had the support of Retail NZ and the EMA

(04:10):
and all these pivotal groups that are actually involved at
the coal face. If they say no, no, thanks very much,
leave it to the police, and the police say no no.
You know, we're highly trained, and we still get hurt.
Imagine what can happen to people who don't have the
training and don't have the equipment. Who did they ask
before they set this up? Who wants this? Apart from

(04:33):
Destiny Church, which really, as I say, puts the heavies
at me.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
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