April 3, 2025 • 10 mins
Slow and steady improvements in mental health and addiction service access.
Minister Matt Doocey's latest quarterly target updates have been released and show a small increase in the proportion of people being seen by specialist and primary services in under a month.
However shorter ED department stays are still far below the 95% target, rising slightly to 65%.
Doocey told Kerre Woodham it's a work in progress.
He says he believes there is no silver bullet, but improvements happen through the sum of every action, which is why they now have very clear targets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks hed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
As we have been talking about accessing mental health services,
positive information has come out from the Minister for Mental
Health has released a set of stats that arrived in
our inbox just as we were talking about the access
programs that are available. Second Cord of Mental Health and
Addiction Target data indicates New Zealanders are seeing genuine progress
(00:34):
and improving weight times and increasing access to timely mental
health support. Minister for Mental Health Matt Doocy is with us.
A very good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You, Morning, carry Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh it was very timely because we've sort of got
overrun by events yesterday talking about the Access and Choice
program and then the data was released today about the increases.
There's small increases, but we'll take the ones where we
find them, won't we.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, very much so. And timely and timeliness are important
words and mental health, because I'm sure you agree when
people are in a time of need, being stuck on
a wait list is a huge red flag. So for
me as the first mental health minister, I wanted to
set very clear expectations but also hold myself accountable. So
that's why we set New Zealand's first mental health targets
(01:23):
that we can now measure how timely people are being
seen for primary mental health and addiction services specialist and
also through the emergency department system.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Absolutely know because when we look at the increased use
of myth as it's getting cheaper and cheaper, all very
well to target the importers and the gangs, but the
better way of doing it is reducing the need surely
for that drug.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, very much. So when you look at how we
will approach that as a government, it'll be stopping meth
coming through the border with customs, disrupting the distribution with
our focus on disrupting gangs, but also for the demand
side for people who are choosing to use meat. It's
how we take a health lead approach. And more importantly
(02:09):
with drug use and addictions, it is around timiness because
people's commitment to change can vary due to the drugs.
So when people want to change, we need to ensure
there's a support they're available to help them do that.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The real problems have been like in the past, there's
been a surplus in budgets because there just haven't been
the staff there to pay, So money is set aside
to pay mental health professionals, but they haven't been there
to pay them. What's happened in terms of being a
why have we seen these small increases and I should
(02:43):
let people know what they are. It is a three
point one percent increase in the overall number of people
who are now accessing primary mental health and addiction services
within one week and a one point five percent increase
of Kiwi's accessing specialist mental health and addiction services within
three weeks. Are we getting more of the staff? Are
(03:03):
we getting you know, people who are able to intervene
before it reaches crisis point where you need the more
specialized staff.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well. Workforce is absolutely vital here and I would say
actually one of the biggest barriers to timely mental health
and addiction support in New Zealand is workforce and workforce
vacancy rates. That's why the Order to General was very
critical of the last government for having no mental health
and addiction workforce plan. We published ours in our first
(03:35):
year and it shows how we're going to work through
each of the mental health and addiction professions to grow
the pipeline of that workforce. And that's why I've also
set a target of how we will commit to training
five hundred mental health and addiction professionals each year. And
what we're really excited about. We've seen an uplift from
four hundred and twenty seven since setting that target to
(03:57):
now four hundred and fifty seven, and we expect as
more university intakes come in through the year, we'll see
that number significantly rise.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now, you mentioned criticism of the previous government, and god
knows I've given a bit of it myself in the past,
but nonetheless, there is no doubting their commitment to trying
to improve the mental wellbeing of New Zealanders with that
enormous boost in funding for mental health services.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, very much so. But I think we've got to
move past more than just commitment using big slogans. It's
actually about implementation. And when you saw the result of
the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission release its report on
the last government's Access and Choice program, Hey, a good
program putting mental health and addiction professionals in GP practices,
(04:44):
But what we saw the goal of three hundred and
twenty five thousand to be seen every year after the
five year roll out rollout, it's only me met two
thirds of that target two hundred and seven thousand. So
for me as the first mental health minister, it has
been able to get into the detail, whether it be
targets like this, to actually ensure that things are being
(05:05):
implemented so they reach their desired goals.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
The problem is that whenever we talk about mental health,
it ranges from parents with young children in absolute crisis.
You know, children who have been brought home by the
police because under sixteens, because they have been about to
do something rarely you know, irrevocable, and they can't access
(05:30):
the psychological services that they need for kids in crisis.
And even if they could pay the two hundred and
fifty dollars to five hundred dollars a session, they can't
even get into private counselors. You've then got people with
mild depression situation or depression because of a breakup or
a poor financial situation. It will pass, you know, they're
not on severe crisis, but they need help. You've then
(05:53):
got people with addictions. They're not all created equal mental
health crises, are they No?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I think what you're talking about is a very
complex system. And look, I'm of the view is a
silver bullet, but actually it's the sum of everything that
we do. That's why we've set very clear targets for
the publicly funded mental health and addiction system delivered through
Health New Zealand. We'll spend two point six billion on
that this year, and those targets will ensure people get
(06:22):
seen within one week for primary mental health, three week
for specialists. But through the Mental Health and Addiction Innovation Fund,
we're also resourcing NGO and community groups at the front line,
the grassroots who have capacity to actually shift some of
the demand from the publicly funded mental health system and
actually be able to provide more timely support in the
(06:44):
communities they serve.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like the Mongrel Mobs olcohol addiction program Harry Tamspring.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yes, we won't be funding gangs to deliver their own
drug rehab programs in adverted commas. What we do know
is is very hard working NGO and community organizations already
on the ground. A lot of them are peer support
lived experience workers who have actually been there themselves. I'm
(07:10):
calling lived experience a quiet revolution in New Zealand. I've
committed a million dollars to funding more of those roles
and training more of them and that's what we want
to see rolled out across New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And as you're saying that, I've just had an email
from Dave saying I attend CADS, the Drug and Alcohol
Counseling Service, which does a great job. My counselor was excellent.
I felt comfortable confiding in him. Unfortunately he's recently been
made redundant due to funding cuts. I'm finding it really
difficult to build up a relationship with someone else's absence
leaves a significant gap in my support network. This is
(07:45):
just one example of the damage these funding cutbacks have.
So you're saying you were increasing funding, he's funding cutbacks
mean that my counselor has been made redundant.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, that's right, and there's been no funding cuts In fact,
Health New Zealand and MOHS have been very clear to
say we have a protected Mental Health and Addiction ring
fence fund every year in New Zealand. This year it
will be two point six billion. It increased under the
last budget twenty twenty four by two hundred million, so
(08:15):
it is protected for mental health and addiction funding. And
what we're doing with these targets is ensuring that investment
flows into access to ensure people are seen more timely,
so that money is protected.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So if his councilor was made redundant, it's not because
of your government doing funding cutbacks to cads.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, because actually what you've seen is funding actually been
increased from two point four billion last year to two
point six and what we want to make sure is
that money gets to the front line. So that's not
only while we're increasing the funding for our publicly funded
mental health and addiction services, but getting more money out
to grassroots NGO and community groups as well.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Do you think do you think a lot of the
mental health issues that many people have experienced have just
come about. It's been a shitty old time over the
last six years, and there's a limit to how long
people can just pick themselves up and carry on every day.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yell. I think part of mental health is a response
to stress in your life, and when we think about
our own stress and how we respond to it. Some
people have the ability to respond to quite a bit
of stress, and for other people they need support about
how they navigate them themselves through that. So lot there's
always stresses in our lives, and that's why the fifth
(09:40):
target is protecting twenty five percent of that ring fence
two point six billion to go into prevention and early intervention,
because we can't wait for people to go into crisis.
But what I would also say is that I think
New Zealand's done very well as a country breaking down
the barriers of stigma and discrimination. There's always been a
(10:01):
certain level and prevalence of mental health distress in the community,
but in pre vies generations they didn't have the confidence
to come forward. Now we're seeing people being very open,
coming forward looking for support. That should be celebrated. Sadly
now though that some people it takes too long to
be seen and that's why we're focused on access to
ensure people can be seen more timely.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Thanks very much for your time, Minister. It's Minister for
Mental Health, the first Minister for Mental Health, Matt doc
News Talks Said be it.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
News Talk Said be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks hed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
As we have been talking about accessing mental health services,
positive information has come out from the Minister for Mental
Health has released a set of stats that arrived in
our inbox just as we were talking about the access
programs that are available. Second Cord of Mental Health and
Addiction Target data indicates New Zealanders are seeing genuine progress
(00:34):
and improving weight times and increasing access to timely mental
health support. Minister for Mental Health Matt Doocy is with us.
A very good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You, Morning, carry Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh it was very timely because we've sort of got
overrun by events yesterday talking about the Access and Choice
program and then the data was released today about the increases.
There's small increases, but we'll take the ones where we
find them, won't we.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, very much so. And timely and timeliness are important
words and mental health, because I'm sure you agree when
people are in a time of need, being stuck on
a wait list is a huge red flag. So for
me as the first mental health minister, I wanted to
set very clear expectations but also hold myself accountable. So
that's why we set New Zealand's first mental health targets
(01:23):
that we can now measure how timely people are being
seen for primary mental health and addiction services specialist and
also through the emergency department system.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Absolutely know because when we look at the increased use
of myth as it's getting cheaper and cheaper, all very
well to target the importers and the gangs, but the
better way of doing it is reducing the need surely
for that drug.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, very much. So when you look at how we
will approach that as a government, it'll be stopping meth
coming through the border with customs, disrupting the distribution with
our focus on disrupting gangs, but also for the demand
side for people who are choosing to use meat. It's
how we take a health lead approach. And more importantly
(02:09):
with drug use and addictions, it is around timiness because
people's commitment to change can vary due to the drugs.
So when people want to change, we need to ensure
there's a support they're available to help them do that.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The real problems have been like in the past, there's
been a surplus in budgets because there just haven't been
the staff there to pay, So money is set aside
to pay mental health professionals, but they haven't been there
to pay them. What's happened in terms of being a
why have we seen these small increases and I should
(02:43):
let people know what they are. It is a three
point one percent increase in the overall number of people
who are now accessing primary mental health and addiction services
within one week and a one point five percent increase
of Kiwi's accessing specialist mental health and addiction services within
three weeks. Are we getting more of the staff? Are
(03:03):
we getting you know, people who are able to intervene
before it reaches crisis point where you need the more
specialized staff.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well. Workforce is absolutely vital here and I would say
actually one of the biggest barriers to timely mental health
and addiction support in New Zealand is workforce and workforce
vacancy rates. That's why the Order to General was very
critical of the last government for having no mental health
and addiction workforce plan. We published ours in our first
(03:35):
year and it shows how we're going to work through
each of the mental health and addiction professions to grow
the pipeline of that workforce. And that's why I've also
set a target of how we will commit to training
five hundred mental health and addiction professionals each year. And
what we're really excited about. We've seen an uplift from
four hundred and twenty seven since setting that target to
(03:57):
now four hundred and fifty seven, and we expect as
more university intakes come in through the year, we'll see
that number significantly rise.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now, you mentioned criticism of the previous government, and god
knows I've given a bit of it myself in the past,
but nonetheless, there is no doubting their commitment to trying
to improve the mental wellbeing of New Zealanders with that
enormous boost in funding for mental health services.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, very much so. But I think we've got to
move past more than just commitment using big slogans. It's
actually about implementation. And when you saw the result of
the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission release its report on
the last government's Access and Choice program, Hey, a good
program putting mental health and addiction professionals in GP practices,
(04:44):
But what we saw the goal of three hundred and
twenty five thousand to be seen every year after the
five year roll out rollout, it's only me met two
thirds of that target two hundred and seven thousand. So
for me as the first mental health minister, it has
been able to get into the detail, whether it be
targets like this, to actually ensure that things are being
(05:05):
implemented so they reach their desired goals.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
The problem is that whenever we talk about mental health,
it ranges from parents with young children in absolute crisis.
You know, children who have been brought home by the
police because under sixteens, because they have been about to
do something rarely you know, irrevocable, and they can't access
(05:30):
the psychological services that they need for kids in crisis.
And even if they could pay the two hundred and
fifty dollars to five hundred dollars a session, they can't
even get into private counselors. You've then got people with
mild depression situation or depression because of a breakup or
a poor financial situation. It will pass, you know, they're
not on severe crisis, but they need help. You've then
(05:53):
got people with addictions. They're not all created equal mental
health crises, are they No?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I think what you're talking about is a very
complex system. And look, I'm of the view is a
silver bullet, but actually it's the sum of everything that
we do. That's why we've set very clear targets for
the publicly funded mental health and addiction system delivered through
Health New Zealand. We'll spend two point six billion on
that this year, and those targets will ensure people get
(06:22):
seen within one week for primary mental health, three week
for specialists. But through the Mental Health and Addiction Innovation Fund,
we're also resourcing NGO and community groups at the front line,
the grassroots who have capacity to actually shift some of
the demand from the publicly funded mental health system and
actually be able to provide more timely support in the
(06:44):
communities they serve.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like the Mongrel Mobs olcohol addiction program Harry Tamspring.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yes, we won't be funding gangs to deliver their own
drug rehab programs in adverted commas. What we do know
is is very hard working NGO and community organizations already
on the ground. A lot of them are peer support
lived experience workers who have actually been there themselves. I'm
(07:10):
calling lived experience a quiet revolution in New Zealand. I've
committed a million dollars to funding more of those roles
and training more of them and that's what we want
to see rolled out across New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And as you're saying that, I've just had an email
from Dave saying I attend CADS, the Drug and Alcohol
Counseling Service, which does a great job. My counselor was excellent.
I felt comfortable confiding in him. Unfortunately he's recently been
made redundant due to funding cuts. I'm finding it really
difficult to build up a relationship with someone else's absence
leaves a significant gap in my support network. This is
(07:45):
just one example of the damage these funding cutbacks have.
So you're saying you were increasing funding, he's funding cutbacks
mean that my counselor has been made redundant.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, that's right, and there's been no funding cuts In fact,
Health New Zealand and MOHS have been very clear to
say we have a protected Mental Health and Addiction ring
fence fund every year in New Zealand. This year it
will be two point six billion. It increased under the
last budget twenty twenty four by two hundred million, so
(08:15):
it is protected for mental health and addiction funding. And
what we're doing with these targets is ensuring that investment
flows into access to ensure people are seen more timely,
so that money is protected.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So if his councilor was made redundant, it's not because
of your government doing funding cutbacks to cads.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, because actually what you've seen is funding actually been
increased from two point four billion last year to two
point six and what we want to make sure is
that money gets to the front line. So that's not
only while we're increasing the funding for our publicly funded
mental health and addiction services, but getting more money out
to grassroots NGO and community groups as well.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Do you think do you think a lot of the
mental health issues that many people have experienced have just
come about. It's been a shitty old time over the
last six years, and there's a limit to how long
people can just pick themselves up and carry on every day.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yell. I think part of mental health is a response
to stress in your life, and when we think about
our own stress and how we respond to it. Some
people have the ability to respond to quite a bit
of stress, and for other people they need support about
how they navigate them themselves through that. So lot there's
always stresses in our lives, and that's why the fifth
(09:40):
target is protecting twenty five percent of that ring fence
two point six billion to go into prevention and early intervention,
because we can't wait for people to go into crisis.
But what I would also say is that I think
New Zealand's done very well as a country breaking down
the barriers of stigma and discrimination. There's always been a
(10:01):
certain level and prevalence of mental health distress in the community,
but in pre vies generations they didn't have the confidence
to come forward. Now we're seeing people being very open,
coming forward looking for support. That should be celebrated. Sadly
now though that some people it takes too long to
be seen and that's why we're focused on access to
ensure people can be seen more timely.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Thanks very much for your time, Minister. It's Minister for
Mental Health, the first Minister for Mental Health, Matt doc
News Talks Said be it.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
News Talk Said be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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