The Government's instructed Auckland Council to allow apartments at least 15 storeys high near key City Rail Link train stations.
Density requirements around the Mt Albert and Baldwin Ave stations require at least 10-storey apartments, while buildings around the Maungawhau, Kingsland, and Morningside rail terminals will be allowed to reach at least 15 storeys.
Hamish Firth, Director of Mt Hobson Group, told Kerre Woodham these sites won’t be filled up within a week or two – it might take 15, 20, even thirty years.
He says it’s the sort of planning we need around those areas to ensure the areas and communities are vibrant and happening.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be The government has instructed Auckland Council to allow
apartment buildings of at least fifteen stories near key train
stations as the City rail Link nears completion. Housing Minister
Chris Bishop and Auckland Minister Sam and Brown made the
announcement yesterday to ensure that Auckland takes economic advantage of
this transformational investment in the city. Mount Hobson Group is
(00:33):
a specialist urban planning and resource management consultancy, and director
Hamish Firth joins me, Now, good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
You, Kerry. Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Makes perfect sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It's logical, isn't it. You don't spend five and a
half billion dollars on a new train system and then
not intensify around those stations.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
What safeguards can we put in to ensure we don't
have a repeat of the hideous monstrosities that were thrown
up in Auckland Central City around twenty years ago.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Interesting herey. Those monstrosities prompted a series of plan changes
which required all new buildings to have resource consent with
regards to amenity and urban design. So I think you'll
find there'll be the same requirements. And I think some
of your callers in textas have said, you want to
(01:28):
create communities around this area. So that's about promoting amenity,
that's about promoting community, places to go and actually places
people want to live. At the end of the day,
people are going to have choices. And i'd suggest to
you that ugly buildings won't sell, Ugly buildings won't get built.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I really really hope not, because it's a crying shame
what happened to the inner city. It was an opportunity
for urban redevelopment and it set us back probably fifty years.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, and it probably put people off living or buying
in some of those apartment buildings. But let's take the
polites out of them. Let's look at Kingsland Railway station.
So you're right by Eden Park. Yep. You are surrounded
by a cafe and bar scene, so you'll be able
to pop out your front door. All of your amenities
are there. You can jump on a train which will
go in two or three directions. You can probably be
(02:20):
in the CBD in ten minutes and you probably won't
need a car. This isn't going to suit everybody, is it.
This is probably a stage in life, so you might
be younger or older and unencumbered by children and so
so you made the point before. The four bedroom house
on seven hundred square meters in Mount Albert is probably
(02:41):
going to increase in value because you've got people who'll
desire that, and then you've got other people who'll, as
stages and places in life, will love to live in
an apartment building walking distance from all that sort of
amenity that something like Kingsland will provide.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, I mean I can see it like as older people.
I've heard from a number who live in central City, Auckland, Wellington, Toto,
and they they're older, they're downsized from the big family
house and that, but they don't want to go to
a retirement village at the moment, and they love living
in the middle of a city. They love being a
(03:16):
part of it, and that would suit them just fine.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
What allows them to do is, as you said, age
in place. Now all their amenities are a close walking
distance away.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The suburb they know is there, you know, and it's evolving.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And they remain sort of part of that, the life
and vibrancy. They're not sort of tucked away in a
gated retirement village, you know, waiting to die.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well that's not really what happens in a retirement village.
But yes, so when we talk about the infrastructure underneath
the ground, what we don't see who's going to pay
for that? Because John Turkey raised a point about the
you know there there'll be questions around funding. And if
central government is coming in and saying you must do this,
(04:01):
then can can Auckland Council legitimately turned around and say okay,
well you pay for that then?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Okay, So let's look at the sewage. The council has
invested a couple of billion dollars in what's called the
Central Interceptor, effectively an enormous tunnel deep underground from Herne
Bay out to Maungary. So we may well have enough
sewerage capacity. Then it's about looking at things like electricity,
water and the other and your telecoms. It probably should
have been done ten years ago when the CRL was announced.
(04:32):
Then we probably would have had the infrastructure in place.
But I think with this push for the density, the
infrastructure must be provided. It'll come by a way of
two things, development contributions and growth charges which are already charged.
And secondly, maybe we need to have a growing up
conversation about sort of value added tax. So let's say
(04:53):
your property has been rezoned from three levels to fifteen.
Maybe we look at taking at tax on the profit
you make above what you would have sold your property
before it was rezoned. And I think it's probably a
growing up conversation to have, and it allows for us
to capture some of that value add or that profit
that people make and use that for the infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
So I think there's many ways what's really good And Kirie,
I was on your show what month or so ago
with the k Road project. If it hadn't been for
Chris Bishop, that project would still be stalled in the
Environment Court. So I think we have to take our
hats off to a minister who's not only hard working,
he's got his finger on the pulse, but more importantly,
(05:37):
he's making proactive changes which make common sense.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean you have got a government that
knows that wants to make things happen and knows how
to make things happen. Will there be sufficient demand? Do
you think will it be? You know, because developers can
only build, there's only there's a limit to how low
they can make the prices, right, I mean, they've got
(06:02):
costs involved in construction and those are set, and then
you allow for a little bit of profit. Are there
going to be enough people who are going to be
able to afford to live in these places?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I think the starting point for me is I'd rather
there was the zoned opportunity than not. So having these
areas ready to go or ready to build from a
zoning point of view will allow for that capacity to
come when the demand arises. This isn't going to happen overnight.
All of these sites aren't going to be filled up
within a week or two. It might take fifteen or
(06:35):
twenty years, maybe thirty. But that's the sort of planning
we need around these areas to make these communities vibrant
and happening. This is no different than Sydney. When I
was in Vancouver a couple of years, I stayed in
an airbnb. It would have been a minute ninety seconds
walk from the train station. It was a forty five
(06:56):
square meter one bedroom. It was short stay accommodation. So
this will allow for short stay, long stay, different types
of accommodation. It won't happen overnight. It'll happen because you've
provided this opportunity. You know, fifteen stories is a decent
sized building.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, what's to stop though, if you allow central government
to come in and trump a unitary plan, what's to
stop labor Greens to batimari because that's your other joys
coming in and saying right, well, we think this is
sensible according to our theory, according to our ideology, and
we're going to trump your unitary plan with our amendments.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I think we have to face that bridge when we
come to it. For the first time in a long time,
we've got some real positive common sense. I'd rather look
at that. I don't think anyone in those other parties
is going to take this opportunity away. It wouldn't make sense. Look,
let's just face that when it comes to it. I'm
not going to worry about that. I'm just thinking that
(07:57):
this is a very positive day. This is a very
good announcement from a government that's taken its time. All
of us probably got a bit frustrated not a lot
was happening. I think they were doing a lot of
work behind the scenes, understanding the problem and looking for
a sensible solution. Yeah, you see today it just makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, to build a structure underneath this legislation and looking
for any fishocks or unforeseen consequences or unintended consequences and
future proofing it. I mean it sounds really exciting, Like
I would love to think I could live, you know,
in a cool apartment with communal green spaces, and you know,
(08:37):
a train close by and a city that was alive,
a neighborhood that was alive, you know through into my dotage.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
So you could hop on a train Carrie in your
lovely apartment at Kingsland overlooking Eton Park. You'd hop off
at the ATA or the horror to station, walk up
to work. And that's pretty good. My only concern, if
I want to throw it in there, is this all
these things called view shafts. So the days when you
paid the toll on the Harbor Bridge you got to
look up to Mount Eden and feel virtuous when you
(09:08):
pay your twenty cents, all of those view shafts are
still there. So a lot of the area around Mount
Eden train station cannot go to fifteen levels. So again
we have to have this grown up conversation to say,
are these view shafts so important that they all need
to be kept because the holding development back at a
height and they are spread all over Auckland, and I
(09:30):
think some of them are now superbse they no longer required.
You know, the Harbor Bridge one. You know, you're no
longer stopping there. You should be concentrating on driving. You're
not paying a toll. So if you're where the old
toll booths used to be, you could look up and
see Mount Eden. Does that really matter? What's that holding
development opportunity back? So if there's a fishook, the only
(09:52):
fishook still is the view shaft.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
But at the same time, we don't want to block
out the blue sky. Has happened in the central city
with these monstrous, hideous, decaying buildings that were put up there.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, I think those days are gone. You cannot build
those now. There are parameters in place, requirements in place,
minimum expectations, and I think you'll see buildings built beyond
say two thousand and eight two thousand and nine, have
a much better standard of amenity, have a much more
livability about them. You've also got to bear in mind
people have to live somewhere, and you know there's about
(10:27):
seven hundred units down on Stanley Street. As I mentioned before,
the old Celtech site down there, which is now student accommodation.
That little hub is buzzing. The little cafes, the little bars,
the little pizza shops are full, and that's the sort
of thing you need. We need that density around town
nodes to make things happen. Carry The alternative is I
(10:49):
give you a section in Drewy for six hundred thousand dollars,
I build you a house for another six or seven
hundred thousand, and you're thirty five kilometers from the CBD,
trapped on a motorway or an hour and a half
away by bus or train. The are the two options
we're faced. I think intense going around these train stations
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Couldn't agree more and always lovely to talk. Thank you
so much, Hamish Birth, director of the Mount Hobson Group.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks at b from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be The government has instructed Auckland Council to allow
apartment buildings of at least fifteen stories near key train
stations as the City rail Link nears completion. Housing Minister
Chris Bishop and Auckland Minister Sam and Brown made the
announcement yesterday to ensure that Auckland takes economic advantage of
this transformational investment in the city. Mount Hobson Group is
(00:33):
a specialist urban planning and resource management consultancy, and director
Hamish Firth joins me, Now, good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
You, Kerry. Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Makes perfect sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It's logical, isn't it. You don't spend five and a
half billion dollars on a new train system and then
not intensify around those stations.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
What safeguards can we put in to ensure we don't
have a repeat of the hideous monstrosities that were thrown
up in Auckland Central City around twenty years ago.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Interesting herey. Those monstrosities prompted a series of plan changes
which required all new buildings to have resource consent with
regards to amenity and urban design. So I think you'll
find there'll be the same requirements. And I think some
of your callers in textas have said, you want to
(01:28):
create communities around this area. So that's about promoting amenity,
that's about promoting community, places to go and actually places
people want to live. At the end of the day,
people are going to have choices. And i'd suggest to
you that ugly buildings won't sell, Ugly buildings won't get built.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I really really hope not, because it's a crying shame
what happened to the inner city. It was an opportunity
for urban redevelopment and it set us back probably fifty years.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, and it probably put people off living or buying
in some of those apartment buildings. But let's take the
polites out of them. Let's look at Kingsland Railway station.
So you're right by Eden Park. Yep. You are surrounded
by a cafe and bar scene, so you'll be able
to pop out your front door. All of your amenities
are there. You can jump on a train which will
go in two or three directions. You can probably be
(02:20):
in the CBD in ten minutes and you probably won't
need a car. This isn't going to suit everybody, is it.
This is probably a stage in life, so you might
be younger or older and unencumbered by children and so
so you made the point before. The four bedroom house
on seven hundred square meters in Mount Albert is probably
(02:41):
going to increase in value because you've got people who'll
desire that, and then you've got other people who'll, as
stages and places in life, will love to live in
an apartment building walking distance from all that sort of
amenity that something like Kingsland will provide.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, I mean I can see it like as older people.
I've heard from a number who live in central City, Auckland, Wellington, Toto,
and they they're older, they're downsized from the big family
house and that, but they don't want to go to
a retirement village at the moment, and they love living
in the middle of a city. They love being a
(03:16):
part of it, and that would suit them just fine.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
What allows them to do is, as you said, age
in place. Now all their amenities are a close walking
distance away.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The suburb they know is there, you know, and it's evolving.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And they remain sort of part of that, the life
and vibrancy. They're not sort of tucked away in a
gated retirement village, you know, waiting to die.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well that's not really what happens in a retirement village.
But yes, so when we talk about the infrastructure underneath
the ground, what we don't see who's going to pay
for that? Because John Turkey raised a point about the
you know there there'll be questions around funding. And if
central government is coming in and saying you must do this,
(04:01):
then can can Auckland Council legitimately turned around and say okay,
well you pay for that then?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Okay, So let's look at the sewage. The council has
invested a couple of billion dollars in what's called the
Central Interceptor, effectively an enormous tunnel deep underground from Herne
Bay out to Maungary. So we may well have enough
sewerage capacity. Then it's about looking at things like electricity,
water and the other and your telecoms. It probably should
have been done ten years ago when the CRL was announced.
(04:32):
Then we probably would have had the infrastructure in place.
But I think with this push for the density, the
infrastructure must be provided. It'll come by a way of
two things, development contributions and growth charges which are already charged.
And secondly, maybe we need to have a growing up
conversation about sort of value added tax. So let's say
(04:53):
your property has been rezoned from three levels to fifteen.
Maybe we look at taking at tax on the profit
you make above what you would have sold your property
before it was rezoned. And I think it's probably a
growing up conversation to have, and it allows for us
to capture some of that value add or that profit
that people make and use that for the infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
So I think there's many ways what's really good And Kirie,
I was on your show what month or so ago
with the k Road project. If it hadn't been for
Chris Bishop, that project would still be stalled in the
Environment Court. So I think we have to take our
hats off to a minister who's not only hard working,
he's got his finger on the pulse, but more importantly,
(05:37):
he's making proactive changes which make common sense.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean you have got a government that
knows that wants to make things happen and knows how
to make things happen. Will there be sufficient demand? Do
you think will it be? You know, because developers can
only build, there's only there's a limit to how low
they can make the prices, right, I mean, they've got
(06:02):
costs involved in construction and those are set, and then
you allow for a little bit of profit. Are there
going to be enough people who are going to be
able to afford to live in these places?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I think the starting point for me is I'd rather
there was the zoned opportunity than not. So having these
areas ready to go or ready to build from a
zoning point of view will allow for that capacity to
come when the demand arises. This isn't going to happen overnight.
All of these sites aren't going to be filled up
within a week or two. It might take fifteen or
(06:35):
twenty years, maybe thirty. But that's the sort of planning
we need around these areas to make these communities vibrant
and happening. This is no different than Sydney. When I
was in Vancouver a couple of years, I stayed in
an airbnb. It would have been a minute ninety seconds
walk from the train station. It was a forty five
(06:56):
square meter one bedroom. It was short stay accommodation. So
this will allow for short stay, long stay, different types
of accommodation. It won't happen overnight. It'll happen because you've
provided this opportunity. You know, fifteen stories is a decent
sized building.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, what's to stop though, if you allow central government
to come in and trump a unitary plan, what's to
stop labor Greens to batimari because that's your other joys
coming in and saying right, well, we think this is
sensible according to our theory, according to our ideology, and
we're going to trump your unitary plan with our amendments.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I think we have to face that bridge when we
come to it. For the first time in a long time,
we've got some real positive common sense. I'd rather look
at that. I don't think anyone in those other parties
is going to take this opportunity away. It wouldn't make sense. Look,
let's just face that when it comes to it. I'm
not going to worry about that. I'm just thinking that
(07:57):
this is a very positive day. This is a very
good announcement from a government that's taken its time. All
of us probably got a bit frustrated not a lot
was happening. I think they were doing a lot of
work behind the scenes, understanding the problem and looking for
a sensible solution. Yeah, you see today it just makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, to build a structure underneath this legislation and looking
for any fishocks or unforeseen consequences or unintended consequences and
future proofing it. I mean it sounds really exciting, Like
I would love to think I could live, you know,
in a cool apartment with communal green spaces, and you know,
(08:37):
a train close by and a city that was alive,
a neighborhood that was alive, you know through into my dotage.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
So you could hop on a train Carrie in your
lovely apartment at Kingsland overlooking Eton Park. You'd hop off
at the ATA or the horror to station, walk up
to work. And that's pretty good. My only concern, if
I want to throw it in there, is this all
these things called view shafts. So the days when you
paid the toll on the Harbor Bridge you got to
look up to Mount Eden and feel virtuous when you
(09:08):
pay your twenty cents, all of those view shafts are
still there. So a lot of the area around Mount
Eden train station cannot go to fifteen levels. So again
we have to have this grown up conversation to say,
are these view shafts so important that they all need
to be kept because the holding development back at a
height and they are spread all over Auckland, and I
(09:30):
think some of them are now superbse they no longer required.
You know, the Harbor Bridge one. You know, you're no
longer stopping there. You should be concentrating on driving. You're
not paying a toll. So if you're where the old
toll booths used to be, you could look up and
see Mount Eden. Does that really matter? What's that holding
development opportunity back? So if there's a fishook, the only
(09:52):
fishook still is the view shaft.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
But at the same time, we don't want to block
out the blue sky. Has happened in the central city
with these monstrous, hideous, decaying buildings that were put up there.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, I think those days are gone. You cannot build
those now. There are parameters in place, requirements in place,
minimum expectations, and I think you'll see buildings built beyond
say two thousand and eight two thousand and nine, have
a much better standard of amenity, have a much more
livability about them. You've also got to bear in mind
people have to live somewhere, and you know there's about
(10:27):
seven hundred units down on Stanley Street. As I mentioned before,
the old Celtech site down there, which is now student accommodation.
That little hub is buzzing. The little cafes, the little bars,
the little pizza shops are full, and that's the sort
of thing you need. We need that density around town
nodes to make things happen. Carry The alternative is I
(10:49):
give you a section in Drewy for six hundred thousand dollars,
I build you a house for another six or seven
hundred thousand, and you're thirty five kilometers from the CBD,
trapped on a motorway or an hour and a half
away by bus or train. The are the two options
we're faced. I think intense going around these train stations
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Couldn't agree more and always lovely to talk. Thank you
so much, Hamish Birth, director of the Mount Hobson Group.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks at b from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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