Kerre Woodham: Can Kiwis be swayed to support Nuclear Power?

It seems hard to believe, but the Maxim Institute reckons New Zealand can lead the world in sustainable AI infrastructure. They warn, however, that the window of opportunity is closing quickly because everybody wants to be in on it.  

Every other country wants the rewards that come from hooking their carriages to the AI machine, the choices we make now will determine whether New Zealand becomes a leader in the AI economy or is stuck in competing for the rats and mice that are left.  

Much hinges on being able to generate the electricity needed to power the massive warehouse sized computers driving the AI economy. Right now, those data centres use 2% of global electricity - more than 10 times New Zealand's annual generation capacity and demand is only going to get greater. 

The institute argues that New Zealand has nearly 90% renewable electricity, a temperate climate that reduces cooling costs and strict privacy laws, and thus that makes us an attractive destination for global tech firms. ‘But we haven't got any electricity’ I hear you cry. We're having to burn coal to keep the lights on. Nanas going to bed at 6pm because her power bill is so high. And here is where the Maxim Institute makes its recommendations.   

We need to double geothermal generation, explore emerging energy sources such as supercritical geothermal. Small modular reactors, which are next generation nuclear technology that offer safe, scalable zero carbon power. We need to streamline, consent and incentivise investment.   

Speaking to the Mike Hosking Breakfast, Thomas Scrimgeour, researcher at the Maxim Institute, is all for exploring the nuclear energy option.  

‘Small nuclear reactors are an excellent source of energy that we should be exploring. The International Energy Agency's report earlier this year was titled A New Era for Nuclear Energy. The world is heavily, heavily investing in nuclear power.  

Over 30 countries have signed a pledge to triple nuclear power production by 2050. The world is returning to nuclear power because it is clean, because it is reliable, because it is always there for you. 

Nuclear power is something we should be looking at. New Zealand's opposition to nuclear power is quite recent. In the 1970s, so not that long ago, we had a Royal Commission on Nuclear Power, and it released a report in 1978 that was expecting a significant nuclear power programmes in New Zealand by the early 21st century.  

It's only since the 1980s that we became a country that reacted against nuclear power because of its associations with weapons testing in the Pacific. But nuclear energy is not the same thing as a nuclear bomb, and New Zealand hasn't always been opposed to nuclear energy. Once upon a time, we were expecting to get nuclear power, and we can talk people back into that.’  

Can we though? That was Thomas Scrimgeour, one of the researchers at the Maxim Institute, talking to Mike Hosking this morning.  

He says, basically, that the David Lange ‘no nukes’ identity around which we wrap ourselves, it's an anachronism, a thing of the past, it was a blip in history. One moment we were all for nuclear power, next thing we decided it was absolutely abhorrent.  

We were never going to have anything to do with nuclear power ever again, even though we have X-rays, and even though our hospitals leak more radiation than the most efficient nuclear-powered vessels, he thinks that we can forget about those Lange years.  

He thinks that we can forget about the fact that much of how New Zealand sees itself – pragmatic, humble, innovators, #8 wire mentality, no nukes, no nonsense, give everyone a fair go - he thinks that we can differentiate between no nuclear weapons and the need for nuclear power.  

On the surface, it would solve all of our problems. If we can make ourselves an attractive market to global tech firms and being able to store all this massive amount of data in our country, it would solve our problems around electricity too. Is it worth having the discussion or are you not prepared to even talk about it? S 

Surely the younger generation, those who weren't around when we got this frisson of excitement when David Lange took us to the world. We took a stand, and we were noble, and we were principled and the whole world knew who we were. Surely the younger generation don't have their identity as a Kiwi tied up in that. Or do they? 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news
Talks HEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
It seems hard to believe, but the Maximum Institute reckons
New Zealand can lead the world in sustainable AI infrastructure.
I mean, at the moment, there is a large group
of New Zealanders who are very wary of AI. There's
a growing number who are using AI as their personal

(00:33):
servants and pas, and they're getting the hang of it.
And then there are some who are at the cutting edge,
and the Maximum Institute is amongst that group. They say
New Zealand can be global leaders when it comes to
AI infrastructure, but they warn that the window of opportunity
is closing quickly because everybody wants to be in on it.

(00:55):
Those in the know. Every other country wants the rewards
that come from hooking their carriages to the AI machine.
The choices we make no will determine whether New Zealand
becomes a leader in the AI economy or is stuck
in competing for the rats and mice that are left.
Much hinges on being able to generate the electricity needed

(01:18):
to power the massive warehouse sized computers driving the AI
economy Right now, those data centers use two percent of
global electricity. So that's just right now at the moment,
those data centers need two percent of all the electricity
the world produces more than ten times New Zealand's annual

(01:42):
generation capacity, and demand is only going to get greater.
The Institute argues that New Zealand has nearly ninety percent
renewable electricity, a temperate climate that reduces cooling costs, and
strict privacy laws, and thus that makes us an attractive

(02:02):
destination for global tech firms. But we haven't got any electricity.
I hear you cry. We're having to burn coal to
keep the lights on. Nan is going to be at
at six o'clock because her powerbill is so high. And
here's where the Maximum Institute makes its recommendations. We need

(02:22):
to double geo thermal generation, explore emerging energy sources such
as supercritical geothermal. Apparently that means it goes deeper, and
that's what makes it super critical. Small modular reactors, which
are next generation nuclear technology that offers safe, scalable, zero

(02:44):
carbon power. We need to streamline consenting and incentivize investment.
Speaking to the Micostking Breakfast, Thomas scrimsher researcher at the
Maximum Institute is all for exploring the nuclear energy option.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Small nuclear reactors are an excellent source of energy that
we should be exploring. The International Energy Agencies report earlier
this year was titled a New Era for Nuclear Energy.
The world is heavily, heavily investing in nuclear power. Over
thirty countries have signed a pledge to triple nuclear power

(03:19):
production by twenty fifty. The world is returning to nuclear
power because it is clean, because it is reliable, It
is always there for you. The nuclear power is something
we should be looking at. New Zealand's opposition to nuclear
power is quite recent, in the nineteen seventies, so not
that long ago. In the nineteen seventies we had a
Royal Commission on Nuclear Power and it released of report

(03:40):
in nineteen seventy eight that was expecting a significant nuclear
power program in New Zealand by the early twenty first century.
It's only since the nineteen eighties we became a country
that reacted against nuclear power because of its associations with
weapons testing in the Pacific. But nuclear energy is not
the same thing as a nuclear bomb, and New Zealand
hasn't always been opposed to nuclear energy. Once upon a

(04:03):
time we were expecting to get nuclear power, and we
can talk people back into that, can we though.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
That was Thomas Scrimger, the researcher at the one of
the researchers at the Maximum Institute, talking to Mike Costing
this morning. He says basically that the David LONGI no
nukes identity around which we wrap ourselves. It's an anachronism,
a thing of the past. It was a blip in history.

(04:31):
One moment we were all four nuclear par next thing
we decided it was absolutely abhorrent. We were never going
to have anything to do with nuclear bar ever again.
Even though we have X rays and even though our
hospitals leak more radiation than the most efficient nuclear powered vessels.

(04:52):
He thinks that we can forget about those longer years.
He thinks that we can forget about the fact that
much of how New Zealand sees itself breakmatic, humble innovators,
number eight wire mentality, no nukes, no nonsense, give everyone
a fair go. He thinks that we can differentiate between

(05:20):
no nuclear weapons and the need for nuclear power on
the surface, it would solve all of our problems. I mean,
if we can make ourselves an attractive market to global
tech terms at tech firms, and being able to store

(05:41):
all this massive data in our country the data centers.
It would solve our problems too around electricity. Is it
worth having the discussion or are you not prepared to
even talk about it. Surely the younger generation, those who
weren't around when we got this free son of excitement,

(06:02):
when David Longi took us to the world, we took
a stand, and we were noble, and we were principled,
and the whole world knew who we were. Surely the
younger generation don't have their identity as a key we
tied up in that or do they?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
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