Leeann Watson and Viv Beck: Business Canterbury CEO and Heart of the City CEO on rejuvenating a city
September 30, 2025 • 14 mins
The state of central cities is a big issue as local body elections loom.
Both Wellington and Auckland’s CBDs are suffering, with the percentage of empty retail spaces jumping.
In Auckland, major retailers such as DFS Galleria and Smith & Caughey have left or closed their doors.
So how do you rejuvenate a city?
Leeann Watson, CEO of Business Canterbury, and Viv Beck, CEO of Heart of the City, joined Kerre Woodham to discuss the topic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news
Talks hed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
With the local body elections nearly upon us. In Auckland,
one of the big issues is the future of the
central city. Many of the big retailers like DFS, Galleria
and Smith and Gooe have left door shut their doors.
There's been a jump in the percentage of empty retail
spaces as a proportion of overall space in both Auckland
and Wellington. So how do you rejuvenate a city and
(00:36):
how do you create a thriving city center? Well once
it who's done that very well as christ Church and
Leanne Watson as the CEO of Business Canterbury. She joins me, Now,
good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
LeeAnne, morning Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It wasn't easy, was it. It's not just the fact
that your central city went and so you built a
new one and people came because people for a long
time were shopping in the suburbs and they grew up
to meet that consumer demand. How did you get right
them back to the central.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
City and it is It's a very complex process, I guess,
and one of the things that people don't necessarily probably
know about christ churches. I think We've got one of
the most highly populated, suburban more situations of most other
main centers. So you know, there is a more to
every corner in christ Church, and so having a really strong, vibrant,
(01:30):
thriving central city has always been a bit of a challenge.
But yes, you're right, we have managed to achieve that,
which is great, particularly for those businesses that you know,
made some pretty significant investments and were really committed to
rebuilding the central city after the Christchurch ethquakes. And it's
a real combination.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Your your vacancy rate is three point three percent in
the central city for shopping space compared to thirteen for Auckland.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah. Yeah, And look, I think that's because in the
I guess, and we had the opportunity of, you know,
what was a pretty horrific situation that the city of
Cristich had to go through, But we did have the
opportunity to be very strategic about the design of that
central city and very deliberate about what went were and
making sure that we had things like the convention Center,
(02:19):
like our stadium as part of that heart of the
central city. Now, obviously the way that it was planned
out turned out to be somewhat different because those anchor
projects are sort of supposed to be the lead projects,
and they were supposed to be developed and built ahead
of sort of private sector development. It turned out to
be the other way around. We were very fortunate to
(02:40):
have some very committed private property developers and businesses that
remain really committed to the central city and they rebuilt,
and so that redevelopment of the central city was definitely
led by the private sector. And having the right brands
and having the right unique experiences in the central city
and making sure it's a destination in its own right
to bring residents in has been really important. Even things
(03:03):
like the Margaret Mayhee Playground, which is the love our
central city, has been such a draw card to bring
families back into the central city. For example, having the
two Langer Library right in the heart of the central city,
which is a world class library. Those are the sorts
of things that have been very deliberate in terms of
the design and the thinking about how we rebuilt the
(03:24):
central City of christ Church.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And yet at the same time, the malls haven't collapsed either.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
No, there has been quite an interesting shift though in
some of the malls. We've certainly seen a bit of
movement from you know, some of the some of the
bigger malls, having some of them that what I would
consider to be their anchor tenants move out, but they
have moved into other malls, and so it's just a
matter of moving them around the sort of the suburban
(03:54):
malls as opposed to them, you know, moving out completely.
And that's what I mean by it's important to have
your central city offering quite unique. So generally when you
come into christ Church in Central City, you know, things
like Riverside, you know, which has been a significant player
in getting people back into the central city. That's unique.
(04:14):
You don't have that type of hospitality offering and that
sort of experience when you go to a suburban mall.
And so you know, Valentine's, you know, who obviously has
been an anchor a key part of this heart of
the central city, have remained committed and you don't get
Valentine's in a suburban mall. Some of the brands that
(04:35):
the property owners in the central city have attracted, again,
you don't get them in the suburban malls. And so
I think that that real unique offering is certainly a
draw card, and that's what the heart of the central
city is really important to draw tourism as well. I mean,
I don't know any you know when certainly when I
go overseas, I don't go out to the malls. I
go into the central city, and I think that's what
tourists want to see as well.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I agree, I totally agree with you. And then that's
exactly where I go when I come to christ Church
and I love it. It is unique. You don't see
it anywhere else. Was the fact that you were willing
to commit to the rebooth of the central city with
Container City, was that intrinsic to keeping the spirit of
(05:18):
the city alive?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, look, I think that certainly played a big part.
What we have to remember is, you know a lot
of young people, you know, certainly over the you know,
initial sort of five to ten year period, had never
experienced at the central city, and so they grew up
without a central city and so of course they didn't
know to come back because they had never experienced it.
(05:40):
So the concept I think behind the container wall was
to not lose the momentum and making sure that people
continue to bring their families into the central city so
they didn't lose that connection that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Behind the artworks as well.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That was on all of the yeah, yeah, yep, yep,
getting getting some of the artworks that the activations in
the central city and any central city again are a
really important partner. We had the buskers for a number
of years, you know, continuing to perform in the central city.
We've had ice skating rinks set up in the central
city for families to come in over the weekend. We've
(06:17):
had all sorts of different things, and so many many
people have worked really hard to make sure that there's
really really strong reasons to get people back into the
central city and to give them reasons to come back
again and again. And I think that's really easy. You know,
transport into the central city, parking in the central city,
they all play quite a strong role. We've had a
lot of controversy over parking in our central city is
(06:38):
I'm sure most central cities have, but making it accessible,
making it easy for people to get to as another
component of a vibrant, successful central city.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And just finally, can I ask you how do you
sustain it? Because Auckland will have Ponsmbee comes up and
everybody loves that for a while, and then they moved
and then they moved to Commercial Bay and they die
after them. They atrophy and die after them.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So how do you yeah, I mean, look, I think
you know, anyone that's involved in retail and hospitality, I
take my head off to them. They are hard industries
to be in. The ones that tend to be successful
and the ones that have been around for quite some
time are constantly keeping one eye on the future. You know,
(07:24):
we know that consumer patterns have changed. We know that
online shopping has taken a significant we had a significant
impact on you know, you know, going into a bricks
and mortar retailer. So those businesses are really having to
constantly look at reinventing themselves and creating a really strong
customer experience, you know, making sure that they are aware
(07:45):
of what the trends are, making sure that they're doing
things different to the you know, the lights of what
you might get in the malls. And we have some
amazing businesses in christ Church that that do just that
and are constantly looking at how to create reasons to
draw people in. How do we leverage off things like
you know, cup and show Week in christ Church? You know,
we leverage off the fact that we've got cruise ships,
(08:06):
christ Church and welcoming people into the central city. So
you know, long gone other days where you open the
doors and your customers customers will come. You need to
do more than that. And so you know, if you
look at the likes of Valentine's is a great example.
Actually think of it. You know Valentine's, it's been around
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It is the lost post excellently.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And you know they put people on buses and took
them to Timaru when their customers couldn't get into the
central city because it was in the red zone. And
the reason they did that is because they wanted to
retain that customer base and they had a very loyal
customer base, and so they have you know, businesses have
to think really creatively about how to do that.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Brilliant ideas, Lee, and thank you. I could talk to
you all morning, but we can't. Lee And What's in
Business Canterbury CEO News Talk sd B as we're discussing
the future of Auckland City Center is becoming a big
issue for voters in the local election. The CBDs strip
vacancy rate has gone from zero point nine percent in
June of twenty nineteen to eleven percent at hit high
(09:07):
of fourteen point four percent and twenty twenty one. Vive
Beck is the CEO of Heart of the City and
she joins me, now good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
With good morning Odie.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Hell are you going to have a job soon? It
sounds like the Heart has done well.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I can tell you that the exasperation level is very high.
I think, to be fair, there are some pretty amazing
things happening here. And if you look at the waterfront area,
you look at developments like the sod turning yesterday at
the Symphony Center, there is a range of things. There
are some great people doing great things, and you go
(09:42):
down to the silos with families enjoying the space down there.
So I think that's an important context. But there are
some things and I listened to Leanne and I have
been to christ Church recently and I think they've done
an outstanding job. But there are some quite significant differences.
And one of the things she talked about was accessibility.
And we have been on about this for as long
(10:04):
as I can remember. In christ Church we had a
rental car and we wanted to go into the central
city and we did not get fined, We did not
feel unwelcome. We got very close to where we needed
to be and we had a very happy time. Contrast
that to a trip in January to Japan. We did
(10:27):
the entire holiday with public transport. However, what we've got
here is a vision that in and of itself is
actually fine, and you only have to look at the
water front end of the central city to know that
there are some magnificent things that have happened. But the
execution has been extremely poor. And we have gone on
about this till we blue in the face, talking about
(10:49):
the importance of accessibility, and unfortunately they've closed off so
much before we had viable alternatives, and we've had enough.
I mean, this can't go on because it's strangling many businesses.
And the other point that Leanne made is just how
private it was private sector lead. Now ours has had
(11:10):
some outstanding private sector development. We've had some outstanding business investment,
and we want to keep that going. But I would
say to you that only some would say that they've
been well looked after in terms of and welcomed and
listened to in terms of what they need. So what
we are saying is there is tremendous potential here. The
(11:32):
State of the City report says it a lot of
the things that are being done are actually what international
cities are doing. What they've forgotten here is that we're
not Manhattan, We're not London. We don't have the volume
of people to sustain some of these things, and they've
done too much too soon at the expense in many
ways of business. But we have got a lot of
(11:54):
investment and what we're going to do is nurture that
investment in the period ahead. So we are concerned not
for the five years out. We're concerned about the next six, twelve,
eighteen months whilst the ends that I see and CRL
come on board and we are actually saying things must change.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
But I mean, Leanne talked about the library in Christchurch
and I've visited that, the Margaret Markey playground, I've visited that.
The fact that you go to the riverside markets to
catch up with friends and to buy market style food,
You're not going to get that anywhere else. This doesn't
happen in the central city. I mean, you want to
go to the library in the central city.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Now, well you wouldn't at the moment. No, and that's
the reason we're pushing so hard on the social issues,
and because the reality is we do have we've had.
We did have the worst impact of COVID in the country.
I can graph it for you.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Yeah, we did have ten years of construction and the
light rail in Sydney was about four. We've had ten years, long,
hard years of construction, very very slow. We've had fines
on Queen Street trying to get the cars out. What
they don't realize is that they've taken the people out
and to spend that out, and they don't seem to
(13:10):
mind that we do. And I think those things are
all possibilities. And what we've got to do now is
actually act on the things that are holding us back
so we can reap the rewards that are coming. They
will come. We do need more people and we have
to attract them. That we've got more. We've got the
same number of international students back than we had before COVID.
(13:33):
There have been some recent announcements about major events that
we've been pushing for and some tourism. We need the
people back, but we can't brush over the challenges that
we've got from COVID. One of them is the social
issues and we need to deal with them, and we've
made it very clear to counsel and we haven't got
what we need yet, but we're going to continue on
(13:54):
that one. We've now got government recognizing that there has
to be a cross agency solution. But what we need
is urgency that these things have to be dealt with urgently,
so when we do open the convent, we've got a
step change in the environment. Business needs a great environment
to operate in so that people will want to come back.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I think you've got a hell of a job to do,
Viv Viv big Heart of the City, Chief Executive.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks at b from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news
Talks hed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
With the local body elections nearly upon us. In Auckland,
one of the big issues is the future of the
central city. Many of the big retailers like DFS, Galleria
and Smith and Gooe have left door shut their doors.
There's been a jump in the percentage of empty retail
spaces as a proportion of overall space in both Auckland
and Wellington. So how do you rejuvenate a city and
(00:36):
how do you create a thriving city center? Well once
it who's done that very well as christ Church and
Leanne Watson as the CEO of Business Canterbury. She joins me, Now,
good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
LeeAnne, morning Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It wasn't easy, was it. It's not just the fact
that your central city went and so you built a
new one and people came because people for a long
time were shopping in the suburbs and they grew up
to meet that consumer demand. How did you get right
them back to the central.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
City and it is It's a very complex process, I guess,
and one of the things that people don't necessarily probably
know about christ churches. I think We've got one of
the most highly populated, suburban more situations of most other
main centers. So you know, there is a more to
every corner in christ Church, and so having a really strong, vibrant,
(01:30):
thriving central city has always been a bit of a challenge.
But yes, you're right, we have managed to achieve that,
which is great, particularly for those businesses that you know,
made some pretty significant investments and were really committed to
rebuilding the central city after the Christchurch ethquakes. And it's
a real combination.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Your your vacancy rate is three point three percent in
the central city for shopping space compared to thirteen for Auckland.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah. Yeah, And look, I think that's because in the
I guess, and we had the opportunity of, you know,
what was a pretty horrific situation that the city of
Cristich had to go through, But we did have the
opportunity to be very strategic about the design of that
central city and very deliberate about what went were and
making sure that we had things like the convention Center,
(02:19):
like our stadium as part of that heart of the
central city. Now, obviously the way that it was planned
out turned out to be somewhat different because those anchor
projects are sort of supposed to be the lead projects,
and they were supposed to be developed and built ahead
of sort of private sector development. It turned out to
be the other way around. We were very fortunate to
(02:40):
have some very committed private property developers and businesses that
remain really committed to the central city and they rebuilt,
and so that redevelopment of the central city was definitely
led by the private sector. And having the right brands
and having the right unique experiences in the central city
and making sure it's a destination in its own right
to bring residents in has been really important. Even things
(03:03):
like the Margaret Mayhee Playground, which is the love our
central city, has been such a draw card to bring
families back into the central city. For example, having the
two Langer Library right in the heart of the central city,
which is a world class library. Those are the sorts
of things that have been very deliberate in terms of
the design and the thinking about how we rebuilt the
(03:24):
central City of christ Church.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And yet at the same time, the malls haven't collapsed either.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
No, there has been quite an interesting shift though in
some of the malls. We've certainly seen a bit of
movement from you know, some of the some of the
bigger malls, having some of them that what I would
consider to be their anchor tenants move out, but they
have moved into other malls, and so it's just a
matter of moving them around the sort of the suburban
(03:54):
malls as opposed to them, you know, moving out completely.
And that's what I mean by it's important to have
your central city offering quite unique. So generally when you
come into christ Church in Central City, you know, things
like Riverside, you know, which has been a significant player
in getting people back into the central city. That's unique.
(04:14):
You don't have that type of hospitality offering and that
sort of experience when you go to a suburban mall.
And so you know, Valentine's, you know, who obviously has
been an anchor a key part of this heart of
the central city, have remained committed and you don't get
Valentine's in a suburban mall. Some of the brands that
(04:35):
the property owners in the central city have attracted, again,
you don't get them in the suburban malls. And so
I think that that real unique offering is certainly a
draw card, and that's what the heart of the central
city is really important to draw tourism as well. I mean,
I don't know any you know when certainly when I
go overseas, I don't go out to the malls. I
go into the central city, and I think that's what
tourists want to see as well.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I agree, I totally agree with you. And then that's
exactly where I go when I come to christ Church
and I love it. It is unique. You don't see
it anywhere else. Was the fact that you were willing
to commit to the rebooth of the central city with
Container City, was that intrinsic to keeping the spirit of
(05:18):
the city alive?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, look, I think that certainly played a big part.
What we have to remember is, you know a lot
of young people, you know, certainly over the you know,
initial sort of five to ten year period, had never
experienced at the central city, and so they grew up
without a central city and so of course they didn't
know to come back because they had never experienced it.
(05:40):
So the concept I think behind the container wall was
to not lose the momentum and making sure that people
continue to bring their families into the central city so
they didn't lose that connection that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Behind the artworks as well.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That was on all of the yeah, yeah, yep, yep,
getting getting some of the artworks that the activations in
the central city and any central city again are a
really important partner. We had the buskers for a number
of years, you know, continuing to perform in the central city.
We've had ice skating rinks set up in the central
city for families to come in over the weekend. We've
(06:17):
had all sorts of different things, and so many many
people have worked really hard to make sure that there's
really really strong reasons to get people back into the
central city and to give them reasons to come back
again and again. And I think that's really easy. You know,
transport into the central city, parking in the central city,
they all play quite a strong role. We've had a
lot of controversy over parking in our central city is
(06:38):
I'm sure most central cities have, but making it accessible,
making it easy for people to get to as another
component of a vibrant, successful central city.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And just finally, can I ask you how do you
sustain it? Because Auckland will have Ponsmbee comes up and
everybody loves that for a while, and then they moved
and then they moved to Commercial Bay and they die
after them. They atrophy and die after them.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So how do you yeah, I mean, look, I think
you know, anyone that's involved in retail and hospitality, I
take my head off to them. They are hard industries
to be in. The ones that tend to be successful
and the ones that have been around for quite some
time are constantly keeping one eye on the future. You know,
(07:24):
we know that consumer patterns have changed. We know that
online shopping has taken a significant we had a significant
impact on you know, you know, going into a bricks
and mortar retailer. So those businesses are really having to
constantly look at reinventing themselves and creating a really strong
customer experience, you know, making sure that they are aware
(07:45):
of what the trends are, making sure that they're doing
things different to the you know, the lights of what
you might get in the malls. And we have some
amazing businesses in christ Church that that do just that
and are constantly looking at how to create reasons to
draw people in. How do we leverage off things like
you know, cup and show Week in christ Church? You know,
we leverage off the fact that we've got cruise ships,
(08:06):
christ Church and welcoming people into the central city. So
you know, long gone other days where you open the
doors and your customers customers will come. You need to
do more than that. And so you know, if you
look at the likes of Valentine's is a great example.
Actually think of it. You know Valentine's, it's been around
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It is the lost post excellently.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And you know they put people on buses and took
them to Timaru when their customers couldn't get into the
central city because it was in the red zone. And
the reason they did that is because they wanted to
retain that customer base and they had a very loyal
customer base, and so they have you know, businesses have
to think really creatively about how to do that.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Brilliant ideas, Lee, and thank you. I could talk to
you all morning, but we can't. Lee And What's in
Business Canterbury CEO News Talk sd B as we're discussing
the future of Auckland City Center is becoming a big
issue for voters in the local election. The CBDs strip
vacancy rate has gone from zero point nine percent in
June of twenty nineteen to eleven percent at hit high
(09:07):
of fourteen point four percent and twenty twenty one. Vive
Beck is the CEO of Heart of the City and
she joins me, now good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
With good morning Odie.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Hell are you going to have a job soon? It
sounds like the Heart has done well.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I can tell you that the exasperation level is very high.
I think, to be fair, there are some pretty amazing
things happening here. And if you look at the waterfront area,
you look at developments like the sod turning yesterday at
the Symphony Center, there is a range of things. There
are some great people doing great things, and you go
(09:42):
down to the silos with families enjoying the space down there.
So I think that's an important context. But there are
some things and I listened to Leanne and I have
been to christ Church recently and I think they've done
an outstanding job. But there are some quite significant differences.
And one of the things she talked about was accessibility.
And we have been on about this for as long
(10:04):
as I can remember. In christ Church we had a
rental car and we wanted to go into the central
city and we did not get fined, We did not
feel unwelcome. We got very close to where we needed
to be and we had a very happy time. Contrast
that to a trip in January to Japan. We did
(10:27):
the entire holiday with public transport. However, what we've got
here is a vision that in and of itself is
actually fine, and you only have to look at the
water front end of the central city to know that
there are some magnificent things that have happened. But the
execution has been extremely poor. And we have gone on
about this till we blue in the face, talking about
(10:49):
the importance of accessibility, and unfortunately they've closed off so
much before we had viable alternatives, and we've had enough.
I mean, this can't go on because it's strangling many businesses.
And the other point that Leanne made is just how
private it was private sector lead. Now ours has had
(11:10):
some outstanding private sector development. We've had some outstanding business investment,
and we want to keep that going. But I would
say to you that only some would say that they've
been well looked after in terms of and welcomed and
listened to in terms of what they need. So what
we are saying is there is tremendous potential here. The
(11:32):
State of the City report says it a lot of
the things that are being done are actually what international
cities are doing. What they've forgotten here is that we're
not Manhattan, We're not London. We don't have the volume
of people to sustain some of these things, and they've
done too much too soon at the expense in many
ways of business. But we have got a lot of
(11:54):
investment and what we're going to do is nurture that
investment in the period ahead. So we are concerned not
for the five years out. We're concerned about the next six, twelve,
eighteen months whilst the ends that I see and CRL
come on board and we are actually saying things must change.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
But I mean, Leanne talked about the library in Christchurch
and I've visited that, the Margaret Markey playground, I've visited that.
The fact that you go to the riverside markets to
catch up with friends and to buy market style food,
You're not going to get that anywhere else. This doesn't
happen in the central city. I mean, you want to
go to the library in the central city.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Now, well you wouldn't at the moment. No, and that's
the reason we're pushing so hard on the social issues,
and because the reality is we do have we've had.
We did have the worst impact of COVID in the country.
I can graph it for you.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Yeah, we did have ten years of construction and the
light rail in Sydney was about four. We've had ten years, long,
hard years of construction, very very slow. We've had fines
on Queen Street trying to get the cars out. What
they don't realize is that they've taken the people out
and to spend that out, and they don't seem to
(13:10):
mind that we do. And I think those things are
all possibilities. And what we've got to do now is
actually act on the things that are holding us back
so we can reap the rewards that are coming. They
will come. We do need more people and we have
to attract them. That we've got more. We've got the
same number of international students back than we had before COVID.
(13:33):
There have been some recent announcements about major events that
we've been pushing for and some tourism. We need the
people back, but we can't brush over the challenges that
we've got from COVID. One of them is the social
issues and we need to deal with them, and we've
made it very clear to counsel and we haven't got
what we need yet, but we're going to continue on
(13:54):
that one. We've now got government recognizing that there has
to be a cross agency solution. But what we need
is urgency that these things have to be dealt with urgently,
so when we do open the convent, we've got a
step change in the environment. Business needs a great environment
to operate in so that people will want to come back.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I think you've got a hell of a job to do,
Viv Viv big Heart of the City, Chief Executive.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks at b from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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