Wattie Watson: Professional Firefighters’ Union National Secretary on the firefighters' strike

The firefighters union says workers don't want to strike, but Fire and Emergency needs to take their concerns seriously.  

Professional firefighters will walk off the job for an hour at midday on October 17th –protesting pay, staffing, and ageing equipment. 

The previous offer from Fire and Emergency was 5.1% over three years, made in June. 

Further bargaining is set for the end of next week. 

Professional Firefighters’ Union National Secretary Wattie Watson told Kerre Woodham in reality the offer would’ve been over five years, not three, as they haven’t had a pay rise since 2023, meaning it would actually be less than 5.1%.  

She says it’s a sinking lid kind of scenario, the longer it takes to ratify the pay increase, the less it is.  

LISTEN ABOVE 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news Talk,
said b.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
The Firefighters Union says workers do not want to strike,
but FENS needs to take their concerns seriously. Professional firefighters
will walk off the job for an hour at midday
or October seventeen, protesting pay, staffing and aging equipment. Further
bargaining is set for the end of next week. Professional
Firefighters Union National Secretary Watty Watson joins me, Now, good

(00:35):
morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Good morning, Carrie.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is five point three over five point one over three years?
That bad an offer given the straightened times in which
we will live.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Well, in reality, it's over five years. If it was
a three year agreement. Our members haven't had a pay
increase since July twenty twenty three. Fenn says. The government
won't let them back date, so anything that and any
pay increase only applies from the date that it is ratified,
So that offer isn't even five point one percent anymore.

(01:11):
It reduces it's a thinking kind of scenario the longer
it takes to ratify. There was also nothing else in
that collective agreement at all really to address the other issues.
So ninety nine percent of our members rejected it. Finds
were notified of that in July, were still yet to

(01:32):
get a different position from them.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
If you'd accepted the payoffer, would there have been the
issues around the fact that it then you know, would
have kicked in sooner for you.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Well would have kicked in from the data ratification. But
five point five essentially one percent a year is not
is not reasonable and it's not fear fins has are
given increases to other staff in that interim. We got
a pay increase back when we settled in twenty twenty two.

(02:05):
Finds passed on a lot of that to other staff,
so our members are well behind. In addition, the reason
we got that pay increase back in twenty twenty two
was due to report by former Employment Court Chief Judge
Graham Colgan which demonstrated that the NZP few members were
paid significantly less than the other roles within fans. Is

(02:27):
that because that disparity still exists, is.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
That because a lot of firefighters back in the day
used to have other jobs that paid well, they could
juggle a good job on the side as well as
their duties as professional firefighters.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Firefighters have other jobs so that they can pay the
bills like there's just because someone has other jobs, like
with any other employer, the employer that they work for,
and particularly for firefighters that put their quality and quantity
of life on the line in every shift, they should
be paid properly for doing so. So we understand and

(03:06):
the context that we are bargaining in this time around,
but essentially one percent, which is less than that now
over five years, just didn't cut it.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I understand what you're saying. But like with my boss,
I'm not you know, he said, I pay you so
you don't go and work other jobs. I've got time
to do it, but he doesn't want me doing it
because he doesn't he wants me ready and fresh for
this job.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, that would be great, That would be great if
they paid firefighters sufficient.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Right, so great. So at the moment they pay them,
expecting them to do other jobs.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
They pay them. I don't think whether they do other
jobs or not. Even enters Fin's he had to be
perfectly honest with you. The pay is low. It is
still low comparatively. We did get an uplift in twenty
twenty two, but as I see comparatively, the iniquity within
FINS still applies. The iniquity with other firefighters in externally

(04:07):
including overseas or for example, airport firefighters in New Zealand
still applies. We need reasonable pain conditions, but we also
need the addressing of the other key issues totally.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
I mean when it comes to the aging equipment and
the failure of the equipment, I totally totally understand that.
How do you compare with police and nurses?

Speaker 3 (04:30):
So we are way behind and police. One of the
struggles that we have is that police are paid more
upon recruitment as well, so people who are considering a
career or a profession serving the community, such as police,
fire or nursing, fires way down the list in terms

(04:50):
of remuneration. So if remuneration is the key factor, we
lose out on those quality candidates.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
So you know, if a young person, male or female,
is looking for a job, they're looking at nursing, they're
looking at teaching, teaching, they're looking at police, they're looking
at fire because they've got that kind of public service
mentality as well as being up for a challenge. Is
it ten thousand dollars the difference twenty.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head.
For those others because police got to increase recently, and
I'm not sure where the teachers are right now.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
What about a young person joining the fire what would
they start on.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
So it's also a bit of a fallacy that it's
all young people. I just want to say. So generally,
it's really encouraged for people to have had other experiences
before they come into fire fighting because of the range
of responses, etc. So generally people are in their mid
twenties to mid thirties when they sign up or they

(05:51):
managed to pass all the standards for the recruitment, and
they will start on between fifty eight and sixty thousand
to start with, and then as they go up through
the ranks, that will increase. But it was about ten
thousand differents when we've bargained in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Okay, And do they get penal rates and overtime? Like
do you get more for sleeping overnight at the station or.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
You don't get more for sleeping overnight at the station.
So the firefighters work a shets set shift system which
includes the holidays rosted into that system. But if they
work overtime, they get paid over time. Now, fans relies
very heavily on firefighters working over time in order to
keep the crews at minimum minimum staffing, and that's failing

(06:42):
regularly now. And it was before the last bargaining. The
last bargaining. Part of the outcomes of that settlement was
a process to look at uplifting the number of firefighters,
and there was an agreement in principle for two hundred
and thirty five more firefighters in order to maintain minimum crewing,
and we had a process to achieve that over six years.

(07:05):
Ends won't say that they have reneged on that, but
they appeared or walked away from it because they've already
cut one of the usual four recruit courses next year
and another one's in jeopardy. So those recruit courses aren't
the extras. They were just to cover for natural attrition
and the usual rate of.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Ree's concerning the fire truck thing is just a fiasco.
How on earth does somebody not work out what's needed
to go in the truck before you send them away?

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Oh that is just that is. It blows our minds
sometimes as well. And the thing that really is disappointing
is Fens originally tried to claim that the firefighters were
sabotaging that and deliberately not fitting the gear, and that's
why they did another trial in another station, And that's

(07:56):
just appalling. Firefighters would never sabotage the opportunity to have new, better, reliable,
workable responding tracks. They are fed up with the risks
that they faced daily with these failing tracks, and to
suggest that firefighters would would sabotage as just nonsense.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
It sounds like it's not a terribly productive related or
you know it does. It doesn't sound like you've got
a good working relationship between FENS and the union.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
No, And part of the settlement in twenty twenty two
was the establishment of working parties, which the CEO Kerry
Gregory said at the time as well, was we both
at both parties wanted to use those working parties as
a way in which to start to build a more
productive relationship. Now, those working parties got off to a

(08:50):
good start, but last year, for example, the staffing working
party that was working really well on those additional firefighters
and how they would be recruited and accommodated, et cetera,
were kept in the dark that things in natual fat
had pulled the plug behind the scenes is I said,
they still won't confirm that, but then they've just asked
for another extension before they come back to us confirming that.

(09:14):
But all indications are those that they're walking away from
that agreement. Also, in this bargaining, we've asked for other
working parties and consultation committees, and in the bargaining a
couple of months ago, fans just said outright they never
wanted to have such things. Again, in the last bargaining
session there was conversation that indicated they'd move from that

(09:35):
hard position, but we've yet to see any changed in
an offer.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
And just finally, should we be paying for your gym
subscriptions in your pilates memberships.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well, we've never asked for pilarates memberships. What we've asked
for is an allowance so that people can use that
for gym's or health or well being or whatever medical
problems that they have. Been a firefighter and some of
our other jobs is really really taxing physically. In addition,

(10:07):
we know the mental well being of firefighters in the
one on one dispatch center, callers are dangerously low. The
mental well being is dangerously low. We all know, and
the link between fitness and well being and mental health

(10:28):
and those things should be acted upon. Now. Most firefighters
have access to gyms and stations across the country, but
they vary and the reason they vary is the quality
and the type of equipment is often down to those
firefighters are funding it themselves. Fans has just pulled the
plug on gym access for the recruits who are paid

(10:52):
miserably while they're in training and they have to fund
their own gyms and the Colm Center. People have a
whole lot of issues because they are sitting at it
is for their generally for their whole shift, even at night.
They don't have the ability to go and get wholesome foods, etc.
They obviously have a lot of other issues, including sleep

(11:12):
related issues due to those as do the firefighters due
to the shift work. So we think it's reasonable for
how safety and well being for friends to assist them
in addressing pro addressing those.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Thank you Woddy Watson, National Secretary of the New Zealand
Professional Firefighters Union.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.