October 12, 2025 • 9 mins
This year’s local government elections have seen the lowest voter turnout in 36 years, with less than a third - or 32% - bothering to have their say.
Of those who did, the contrast between the urban rural divide was stark. In metro areas, only 28.8% cast their votes, provincial people made up 38.3% while rural turnout was 43.6%
Local Government New Zealand says it is clear local elections have to change urgently - they'd like to see a voter turnout of at least 80%.
University of Otago Law Professor Andrew Geddis told Kerre Woodham that moving away from postal ballots could be the way forward.
'We can't keep using postal ballots because the postal service is disintegrating.'
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be this year's the local government elections have seen
the lowest of voter turnout in thirty six years, with
less than a third thirty two percent bothering to have
their say. Of those who did, the contrast between the
urban rural divide was stark. In metro areas, only twenty
eight points eight percent cast their votes, while rural turnout
(00:33):
was forty three point six. Local Government New Zealand says
it's clear local elections have to change urgently. They'd like
to see a voter turnout of at least eighty percent.
Apparently it was a miter ten ad not placemakers which
had the week Kid saying Tellumy's dreaming, But it's true
an eighty percent turnout. How University of Otago law professor
(00:55):
Andrew Getis joins us now a very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, good morning, Carry Why are.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
People so disengaged given the huge numbers involved and and
what's at stake?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, that's for you.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
The answer to that fixed it a lot earlier. There's
a number of thoughts about why it might be. One
is that you know, while local government.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Is actually very important.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You know, just about everything we do day to day
relies in some way on decisions that your local council makes,
you know, walking down the street, flushing the toilet, drinking
the water comes out of your taps, getting on a bus,
et cetera, et cetera. All of that's local government stuff.
There's still I think a misunderstanding amongst lots of the
population as to what local government actually does and central government.
(01:48):
Wellington is seen as been the really important government stuff.
Local government just doesn't matter that much. Now, as I say,
that's just not true. But if that's how people feel,
then they're not going to, you know, be as minded
to engage. That's also possibly extra true for people who
don't directly pay for the cost of local government. So
(02:10):
if you're a rate payer and you're a homeowner and pay.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Rates, you see the cost of local government.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
If you're a renter and your rates are encapsulated in
the rent you paid your landlord, who then pays the rates,
you maybe don't see it quite so directly. And then
the final thing is it's just a lot harder to
vote in local elections than it is national elections. So
even though your ballot paper gets posted out to you.
When you've got it, you still have to return it
(02:40):
either by finding a post box what are those or
going to one of sort of a smaller number of
drop off places. So it's actually just not quite as
easy to cast your ballot as at national election time.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
No, and if we made it easier, would we see
a better turnout?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, that is a hope.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
So one of the proposals that's been made, and I
was part of a local government New Zealand group that
sort of recommended this, is to try to make the
experience of voting at local elections as close to voting
at national elections as you can, so moving away from
postal ballots because we can't keep using postal ballots because
the postal service is disintegrating. A New Zealand Post itself
(03:25):
has said that they don't think they can guarantee a
postal service that will allow for postal ballots beyond the
next local election, so something has to change around that.
And the hope is that by going to a system
where we have like a much shorter voting period so
that you know, it doesn't stretch out forever and people
coming oh yeah, should get around to that oh yeah,
(03:47):
and then forget but you know a much shorter concentrated
period where everyone is voting at the same time and
you get that kind of mass kind of oh ye yeah,
we should all do it with the ease of being
able to go to a physical place and cast your
ballot as you do it a national election, it might encourage,
you know, put it on people's radar in a way
(04:07):
that doesn't seem to be at the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You know, there are interested parties who understand how important
control of local councils can be, and so we've seen
political parties push their people to try and gain control,
and people will be manipulated if they allow themselves to
(04:33):
be possibly.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Now, the role of political parties is a really interesting one.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I mean, what political parties basically do is they brand
the candidate, right, They say, this candidate is this sort
of person who has this sort of beliefs and if elected,
will pursue these sort of objectives. So when a candidate
has act local the act party, you know what they're
going to think. If they're green on them, you know
what they're going to do. That's actually a really useful
(05:01):
signaling device where you've got you know, maybe twenty candidate
and sure you get the booklet and you can read through.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It, but they're also to say the same thing.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
You know, I will be responsible, I will be efficient,
I will blah blah blah. If they've got a party
branding on them, you know, oh well, you know, the
parties had to look at them. Thinks that they are
of quality to you know, take a punt on, and
thinks that they believe things that I either like or
don't like. So party involvement in local government at one level,
(05:34):
I can see voters going to hate it because they're
just going to think as an extension of national politics
and you know, the party will tell people what to
do rather than local issues and so on and so on.
But in terms of actually helping you know, what a
candidate is and what they might do, it's actually very useful.
So you've got to kind of choose what you want.
You know, do you want people voters to know with
(05:56):
some you know, guarantee of what they're going to get
when they vote, or is it too risky to have
political parties really involved to local elections because then you'll
just see an extension of you know, national politics coming
down to the local level.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, I mean you can only allow people to do
you know, you will allow that to happen by not
taking an active interest in your community.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a truth to that. But
I mean, we all of us are very busy individuals
that have you know, lots and lots and going on
in our lives, and so while it would be lovely
if we were all hyper motivated, hyper interested and sort
of paying great deal of attention to our local media
and reading up of the issues and so on and
(06:43):
so on, it might be asking a bit much of
you know, eighty percent of the population to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
If that's you want to get to with voting.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean, well, I mean your listeners will be
sitting there, and of course the people who listen to
UK just a proper selection of the community, because of
course they are the interested.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yet et cetera.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
You know, it's the it's the you know they you know,
a person who's working two jobs, trying to put food
on the table, worrying to begin the kids to school,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. How much time have
you got left over in your day to worry about
whether a you know, council controlled water organization is better
(07:24):
than joining with three other local areas to foremost super well,
you know those sort of issues, and that's what local
government's about, right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, it is. That's also you know, I look at
my my area and we've got a new playground going in,
and we've got a council creation nearby, and we're you know,
if I'm working two jobs, I'll want my kids to
have the best facilities around me, you know, because I'm
not going to be able to buy the bells and
whistles for them. And if if you're living in an
area where families and children are prioritized by your counselors,
(07:55):
you'll want them back again.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Well that I think that's true.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And I mean that nothing, nothing gets you re elected
better than doing a good job for the people who
voted you last time. The problem I think with local
government is that doing a good job for your people
is often quite expensive, and that puts rates up.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And it's great stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Going on exactly, and then people start going, you know,
why am I paying extra fifteen hundred dollars a year
when I you know, I don't see a new playground
going around?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Because you know, fixing.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
The pipes is really really important, but you don't see
it right. So those sort of things make local government
very difficult for incumbents and that's what I think we've
seen that this election, certainly in smaller councils. You know,
the big cities have basically stayed the same, So you know, Auckland, Wellington,
christ Church to need In have all pretty much stayed
(08:51):
the same.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
In terms of their politics. The small councils, the rural
councils where we've.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Seen big changes and a lot of mayors voted out
because they've had to put in place double digit rate
increases just to pay for the stuff that you need
day to day in the community, and the public have gone,
I don't want to pay for the stuff, but if
you don't pay for it, then you know, you literally
get poisoned water to drink.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So what do you do?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Nice to talk Andrew as always Andrew Gettus, University of
Otago law professor, News Talk said B.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
For more from Carry Wooden Mornings, listen live to News
Talk said B from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be this year's the local government elections have seen
the lowest of voter turnout in thirty six years, with
less than a third thirty two percent bothering to have
their say. Of those who did, the contrast between the
urban rural divide was stark. In metro areas, only twenty
eight points eight percent cast their votes, while rural turnout
(00:33):
was forty three point six. Local Government New Zealand says
it's clear local elections have to change urgently. They'd like
to see a voter turnout of at least eighty percent.
Apparently it was a miter ten ad not placemakers which
had the week Kid saying Tellumy's dreaming, But it's true
an eighty percent turnout. How University of Otago law professor
(00:55):
Andrew Getis joins us now a very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, good morning, Carry Why are.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
People so disengaged given the huge numbers involved and and
what's at stake?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, that's for you.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
The answer to that fixed it a lot earlier. There's
a number of thoughts about why it might be. One
is that you know, while local government.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Is actually very important.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You know, just about everything we do day to day
relies in some way on decisions that your local council makes,
you know, walking down the street, flushing the toilet, drinking
the water comes out of your taps, getting on a bus,
et cetera, et cetera. All of that's local government stuff.
There's still I think a misunderstanding amongst lots of the
population as to what local government actually does and central government.
(01:48):
Wellington is seen as been the really important government stuff.
Local government just doesn't matter that much. Now, as I say,
that's just not true. But if that's how people feel,
then they're not going to, you know, be as minded
to engage. That's also possibly extra true for people who
don't directly pay for the cost of local government. So
(02:10):
if you're a rate payer and you're a homeowner and pay.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Rates, you see the cost of local government.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
If you're a renter and your rates are encapsulated in
the rent you paid your landlord, who then pays the rates,
you maybe don't see it quite so directly. And then
the final thing is it's just a lot harder to
vote in local elections than it is national elections. So
even though your ballot paper gets posted out to you.
When you've got it, you still have to return it
(02:40):
either by finding a post box what are those or
going to one of sort of a smaller number of
drop off places. So it's actually just not quite as
easy to cast your ballot as at national election time.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
No, and if we made it easier, would we see
a better turnout?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, that is a hope.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
So one of the proposals that's been made, and I
was part of a local government New Zealand group that
sort of recommended this, is to try to make the
experience of voting at local elections as close to voting
at national elections as you can, so moving away from
postal ballots because we can't keep using postal ballots because
the postal service is disintegrating. A New Zealand Post itself
(03:25):
has said that they don't think they can guarantee a
postal service that will allow for postal ballots beyond the
next local election, so something has to change around that.
And the hope is that by going to a system
where we have like a much shorter voting period so
that you know, it doesn't stretch out forever and people
coming oh yeah, should get around to that oh yeah,
(03:47):
and then forget but you know a much shorter concentrated
period where everyone is voting at the same time and
you get that kind of mass kind of oh ye yeah,
we should all do it with the ease of being
able to go to a physical place and cast your
ballot as you do it a national election, it might encourage,
you know, put it on people's radar in a way
(04:07):
that doesn't seem to be at the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You know, there are interested parties who understand how important
control of local councils can be, and so we've seen
political parties push their people to try and gain control,
and people will be manipulated if they allow themselves to
(04:33):
be possibly.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Now, the role of political parties is a really interesting one.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I mean, what political parties basically do is they brand
the candidate, right, They say, this candidate is this sort
of person who has this sort of beliefs and if elected,
will pursue these sort of objectives. So when a candidate
has act local the act party, you know what they're
going to think. If they're green on them, you know
what they're going to do. That's actually a really useful
(05:01):
signaling device where you've got you know, maybe twenty candidate
and sure you get the booklet and you can read through.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It, but they're also to say the same thing.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
You know, I will be responsible, I will be efficient,
I will blah blah blah. If they've got a party
branding on them, you know, oh well, you know, the
parties had to look at them. Thinks that they are
of quality to you know, take a punt on, and
thinks that they believe things that I either like or
don't like. So party involvement in local government at one level,
(05:34):
I can see voters going to hate it because they're
just going to think as an extension of national politics
and you know, the party will tell people what to
do rather than local issues and so on and so on.
But in terms of actually helping you know, what a
candidate is and what they might do, it's actually very useful.
So you've got to kind of choose what you want.
You know, do you want people voters to know with
(05:56):
some you know, guarantee of what they're going to get
when they vote, or is it too risky to have
political parties really involved to local elections because then you'll
just see an extension of you know, national politics coming
down to the local level.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, I mean you can only allow people to do
you know, you will allow that to happen by not
taking an active interest in your community.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a truth to that. But
I mean, we all of us are very busy individuals
that have you know, lots and lots and going on
in our lives, and so while it would be lovely
if we were all hyper motivated, hyper interested and sort
of paying great deal of attention to our local media
and reading up of the issues and so on and
(06:43):
so on, it might be asking a bit much of
you know, eighty percent of the population to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
If that's you want to get to with voting.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean, well, I mean your listeners will be
sitting there, and of course the people who listen to
UK just a proper selection of the community, because of
course they are the interested.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yet et cetera.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
You know, it's the it's the you know they you know,
a person who's working two jobs, trying to put food
on the table, worrying to begin the kids to school,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. How much time have
you got left over in your day to worry about
whether a you know, council controlled water organization is better
(07:24):
than joining with three other local areas to foremost super well,
you know those sort of issues, and that's what local
government's about, right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, it is. That's also you know, I look at
my my area and we've got a new playground going in,
and we've got a council creation nearby, and we're you know,
if I'm working two jobs, I'll want my kids to
have the best facilities around me, you know, because I'm
not going to be able to buy the bells and
whistles for them. And if if you're living in an
area where families and children are prioritized by your counselors,
(07:55):
you'll want them back again.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Well that I think that's true.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And I mean that nothing, nothing gets you re elected
better than doing a good job for the people who
voted you last time. The problem I think with local
government is that doing a good job for your people
is often quite expensive, and that puts rates up.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And it's great stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Going on exactly, and then people start going, you know,
why am I paying extra fifteen hundred dollars a year
when I you know, I don't see a new playground
going around?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Because you know, fixing.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
The pipes is really really important, but you don't see
it right. So those sort of things make local government
very difficult for incumbents and that's what I think we've
seen that this election, certainly in smaller councils. You know,
the big cities have basically stayed the same, So you know, Auckland, Wellington,
christ Church to need In have all pretty much stayed
(08:51):
the same.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
In terms of their politics. The small councils, the rural
councils where we've.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Seen big changes and a lot of mayors voted out
because they've had to put in place double digit rate
increases just to pay for the stuff that you need
day to day in the community, and the public have gone,
I don't want to pay for the stuff, but if
you don't pay for it, then you know, you literally
get poisoned water to drink.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So what do you do?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Nice to talk Andrew as always Andrew Gettus, University of
Otago law professor, News Talk said B.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
For more from Carry Wooden Mornings, listen live to News
Talk said B from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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