October 27, 2025 • 8 mins
Early this morning, the Labour Party made a surprise Capital Gains Tax announcement.
The targeted tax would raise funds for the health system, including three free doctors' visits per year.
The tax wouldn't apply to the family home, farms, KiwiSaver, shares, business assets, inheritances, and personal items.
Dentons Tax Partner Bruce Bernacchi told Kerre Woodham that, "people will call it a capital gains tax when it's actually not, because it's extremely targeted just on property."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Wood of Morning's podcast from
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be earlier this morning. The Labor Party made a
surprise capital gains tax announcement because it had been leaked
and they had to release their policy early. The targeted
tax would raise funds for the health system, including three
free doctors visits per year. The tax wouldn't apply to
the family home, the family farm. Key we say a
(00:30):
shares business assets, inheritances and personal items. I'm joined now
by Denton's tax partner, Bruce Binaki. Good morning to you,
Good morning, carry out of ten, How sensible is this policy?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Oh? I probably give it a three or of four.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I gave it a two, okay, Oh.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Okay, I'm being more generous and maybe I'm more woke
than you are career, I don't know, but I give
it it a three or of four. And I think
I say this because even politically, I'm scratch my head
because people will call it a capital gains tax when
it's actually not, because it's extremely targeted just on property,
and it seems like they really want to do something
(01:17):
more substantial than this, in the form of a wealth
tax or a real comprehensive capital gains tax and you've
got this very watered down version which is going to
introduce a lot of complexity. Look, I haven't seen any
of their numbers yet. I've been on their website another
press the numbers yet, the problem are to come because
it's been leaks of the numbers aren't ready. But it
(01:37):
seems like a lot of complexity for that's not going
to raise a lot of money and what it's looking
to funds actually seems like a reasonable idea. This MEDICRD thing.
I lived in Australia for a while. You have your
medic card over there and the system works quite well,
a good way of tracking people's health needs, etc. And
(01:57):
the idea of maybe getting people to go to the
doctor and getting care early so they don't get even
more sick and costing the health system more. Maybe that
has some but I think but I think that are
linking it to that and having this watered down version,
I do scratch my head what the point of it
all is?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well quite and I mean even in their own press
release they say one in six can't afford to go
to the doctor, which is awful, and they're probably the
very people who need to be able to get to
see the doctor. Five out of six of us can
when we need to go.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So yeah, yes, yes, why exactly so mate, So make
it targeted. So why why subsidize those of us who
can afford to go or have private health insurance and
all the things you help out the people who really
need it and cost one sixth of the amount and
not have to have this tax.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and imagine the worried well that are going to
fill the waiting rooms of the doctor's surgeries because they
want to use up their three free visits and say, look,
I've had a dicky ticker and I get flutters and.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
The poor gps.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, there is a bit of that. And when you
have a help insurance policy like I do, and it's like, oh,
I've got this benefit, I haven't I haven't reached my
maximum for the end. Maybe I'll just go check that
out just in case. And I probably really don't need to,
you know, but god damn it, I'm paying for this.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the wead bit of that
going on, I think too. And yeah, so it's it
(03:23):
is a bit strange. And I go back to my
original point, like I'm not a gain member too woke Cary,
I'm not actually adverse to the idea of it, of
a comprehensive capital game.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
No, we've talked about this before, haven't we.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
If it's actually used to fund stuff that we we
really need, and you know, some of the the real
long term health care hot costs are going to hit
the system as we all age, the increasing costs of
funding superannuation as we all age. I mean, we've got
some big bills to pay coming at us pretty quickly,
(03:57):
and so using it to fund something like that rather
than the sort of watered down version with a nice
feel good headline. And we're all probably terrible for criticizing
it and stopping people going to the doctor, but it's like, well,
to me, it's if you're going to do it, do
it properly.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, that's exactly it. Like if they had had the
cahones to come out and say, yep, you're right, we're
going to introduce a capital gains tax, the same as
every other just about every other country in the world.
We need more money, we need to pay down our debt.
You know, that would be good, that would be a
good use of money.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But to give it to try and dress it up
as as being something that's going to improve the health
of the nation is just so weak.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
It's so pagetic. Yeah, and I wonder, you wonder what's
gone on inside their internal debating and looking at this,
because it's been well known that there's a solid group
in the Labor Party who support a wealth tax, a
solid group who support a capital gains tax. And this
is really surprising. And we've been looking for a while
like they're heading down the capital gains tax route, but
(05:04):
not this very sort of water down version. It's like
if you know, and all the polls you sort of
read that you know, for a long time the idea
of going to an election proposing capital gains tax was
electoral suicide and that was sort of approved by David
Cunliff and fell Golf back in the twenty tens. But
I think now people seem to be coming around to it.
(05:27):
People are realizing more and more we've got all this debt,
We've got these upcoming costs, and you know, we've got
to pay for it somehow.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, we do. But I'm just imagining, you know, the wokesters,
like like clever young things, like the spin off readers,
you know they would be all for a capital gains tax.
Of course they would, and you know that they need
to find some sort of way of paying for the oldies.
But a capital gains tax linked to three doctors visits
(05:56):
a year is they will be scratching their heads thinking,
come on, labor, give me a reason.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, and the thing is of cool, it's linked, right,
We're going to do this to pay for that. But
of course that's not how the system works.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
No, it does.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
It raises the taxes. It goes into one bucket, and
they've got there other buckets where all the money comes
out of. So it'll all be if this sexually went ahead,
it will just be forgotten and goes into the wash.
And there's no direct link, right.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Will it be a way of getting people on board
and then changing it once they're like a trojan horse.
So it's to help people who need to go to
the doctor. Oh, now we're here, we're going to change it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That is a possibility, Like okay, you could slowly do
a creep in terms of the nature of the assets
that are subject to it. It's like when the bright
line test came in. It was two years, then five years,
then ten years, and something like that could happen here.
But you just introduce a lot of complexity in the system. Right,
(06:59):
So this is only going to tax gains made after
the first of July twenty twenty seven, and that's sort
of like a date the people can work with. If
all of a sudden you start bringing in different assets
and different dates and all that sort of thing, it
just makes the whole thing more complicated. Great for business
for people like me, but for people you know, average
person on the street or the average business person on
(07:19):
the street trying to get on with their daily lives.
Like you know, you want to you want to keep
these regimes as simple as possible and not get in
the way of introduced compliance costs to stop business being done.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
They just get in the way of themselves, quite frankly.
And the people you would have to really want to
vote labor to get past this, like this level of incompetence.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Well, I would have thought for their base, it's actually
quite disappointing. This is doesn't seem to be what their
base is asking. If I'm sitting there as a you know,
center left voter, you know, going, well, this this is
this is, as I keep saying, very lukewarm and and
maybe gives scope, you know, on their left flank, to
the Greens and to Party Mari to come out with
something a lot more bolder that that may, you know,
(08:06):
off some of their left leaning voters, because it's, yeah,
it's it's it's not something that fills you with a
lot of sort of enthusiasm or confidence that they've got
some sort of grand plan for the economy on how
we're going to fund all this stuff in the future.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Exactly. Thank you so much, Bruce Pinaki, Denton's tax partner.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks a B from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerry Wood of Morning's podcast from
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be earlier this morning. The Labor Party made a
surprise capital gains tax announcement because it had been leaked
and they had to release their policy early. The targeted
tax would raise funds for the health system, including three
free doctors visits per year. The tax wouldn't apply to
the family home, the family farm. Key we say a
(00:30):
shares business assets, inheritances and personal items. I'm joined now
by Denton's tax partner, Bruce Binaki. Good morning to you,
Good morning, carry out of ten, How sensible is this policy?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Oh? I probably give it a three or of four.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I gave it a two, okay, Oh.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Okay, I'm being more generous and maybe I'm more woke
than you are career, I don't know, but I give
it it a three or of four. And I think
I say this because even politically, I'm scratch my head
because people will call it a capital gains tax when
it's actually not, because it's extremely targeted just on property,
and it seems like they really want to do something
(01:17):
more substantial than this, in the form of a wealth
tax or a real comprehensive capital gains tax and you've
got this very watered down version which is going to
introduce a lot of complexity. Look, I haven't seen any
of their numbers yet. I've been on their website another
press the numbers yet, the problem are to come because
it's been leaks of the numbers aren't ready. But it
(01:37):
seems like a lot of complexity for that's not going
to raise a lot of money and what it's looking
to funds actually seems like a reasonable idea. This MEDICRD thing.
I lived in Australia for a while. You have your
medic card over there and the system works quite well,
a good way of tracking people's health needs, etc. And
(01:57):
the idea of maybe getting people to go to the
doctor and getting care early so they don't get even
more sick and costing the health system more. Maybe that
has some but I think but I think that are
linking it to that and having this watered down version,
I do scratch my head what the point of it
all is?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well quite and I mean even in their own press
release they say one in six can't afford to go
to the doctor, which is awful, and they're probably the
very people who need to be able to get to
see the doctor. Five out of six of us can
when we need to go.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So yeah, yes, yes, why exactly so mate, So make
it targeted. So why why subsidize those of us who
can afford to go or have private health insurance and
all the things you help out the people who really
need it and cost one sixth of the amount and
not have to have this tax.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and imagine the worried well that are going to
fill the waiting rooms of the doctor's surgeries because they
want to use up their three free visits and say, look,
I've had a dicky ticker and I get flutters and.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
The poor gps.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, there is a bit of that. And when you
have a help insurance policy like I do, and it's like, oh,
I've got this benefit, I haven't I haven't reached my
maximum for the end. Maybe I'll just go check that
out just in case. And I probably really don't need to,
you know, but god damn it, I'm paying for this.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the wead bit of that
going on, I think too. And yeah, so it's it
(03:23):
is a bit strange. And I go back to my
original point, like I'm not a gain member too woke Cary,
I'm not actually adverse to the idea of it, of
a comprehensive capital game.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
No, we've talked about this before, haven't we.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
If it's actually used to fund stuff that we we
really need, and you know, some of the the real
long term health care hot costs are going to hit
the system as we all age, the increasing costs of
funding superannuation as we all age. I mean, we've got
some big bills to pay coming at us pretty quickly,
(03:57):
and so using it to fund something like that rather
than the sort of watered down version with a nice
feel good headline. And we're all probably terrible for criticizing
it and stopping people going to the doctor, but it's like, well,
to me, it's if you're going to do it, do
it properly.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, that's exactly it. Like if they had had the
cahones to come out and say, yep, you're right, we're
going to introduce a capital gains tax, the same as
every other just about every other country in the world.
We need more money, we need to pay down our debt.
You know, that would be good, that would be a
good use of money.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But to give it to try and dress it up
as as being something that's going to improve the health
of the nation is just so weak.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
It's so pagetic. Yeah, and I wonder, you wonder what's
gone on inside their internal debating and looking at this,
because it's been well known that there's a solid group
in the Labor Party who support a wealth tax, a
solid group who support a capital gains tax. And this
is really surprising. And we've been looking for a while
like they're heading down the capital gains tax route, but
(05:04):
not this very sort of water down version. It's like
if you know, and all the polls you sort of
read that you know, for a long time the idea
of going to an election proposing capital gains tax was
electoral suicide and that was sort of approved by David
Cunliff and fell Golf back in the twenty tens. But
I think now people seem to be coming around to it.
(05:27):
People are realizing more and more we've got all this debt,
We've got these upcoming costs, and you know, we've got
to pay for it somehow.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, we do. But I'm just imagining, you know, the wokesters,
like like clever young things, like the spin off readers,
you know they would be all for a capital gains tax.
Of course they would, and you know that they need
to find some sort of way of paying for the oldies.
But a capital gains tax linked to three doctors visits
(05:56):
a year is they will be scratching their heads thinking,
come on, labor, give me a reason.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, and the thing is of cool, it's linked, right,
We're going to do this to pay for that. But
of course that's not how the system works.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
No, it does.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
It raises the taxes. It goes into one bucket, and
they've got there other buckets where all the money comes
out of. So it'll all be if this sexually went ahead,
it will just be forgotten and goes into the wash.
And there's no direct link, right.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Will it be a way of getting people on board
and then changing it once they're like a trojan horse.
So it's to help people who need to go to
the doctor. Oh, now we're here, we're going to change it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That is a possibility, Like okay, you could slowly do
a creep in terms of the nature of the assets
that are subject to it. It's like when the bright
line test came in. It was two years, then five years,
then ten years, and something like that could happen here.
But you just introduce a lot of complexity in the system. Right,
(06:59):
So this is only going to tax gains made after
the first of July twenty twenty seven, and that's sort
of like a date the people can work with. If
all of a sudden you start bringing in different assets
and different dates and all that sort of thing, it
just makes the whole thing more complicated. Great for business
for people like me, but for people you know, average
person on the street or the average business person on
(07:19):
the street trying to get on with their daily lives.
Like you know, you want to you want to keep
these regimes as simple as possible and not get in
the way of introduced compliance costs to stop business being done.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
They just get in the way of themselves, quite frankly.
And the people you would have to really want to
vote labor to get past this, like this level of incompetence.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Well, I would have thought for their base, it's actually
quite disappointing. This is doesn't seem to be what their
base is asking. If I'm sitting there as a you know,
center left voter, you know, going, well, this this is
this is, as I keep saying, very lukewarm and and
maybe gives scope, you know, on their left flank, to
the Greens and to Party Mari to come out with
something a lot more bolder that that may, you know,
(08:06):
off some of their left leaning voters, because it's, yeah,
it's it's it's not something that fills you with a
lot of sort of enthusiasm or confidence that they've got
some sort of grand plan for the economy on how
we're going to fund all this stuff in the future.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Exactly. Thank you so much, Bruce Pinaki, Denton's tax partner.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks a B from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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