Kerre Woodham: I don't blame retailers for wanting to ban the homeless

A month ago to this very day, Heart of the City, the business association for Auckland City Centre, released a scathing report that found store owners and offices believed homelessness, too few police, neglect and disorder, and frightening anti-social behaviour were crippling their businesses.  

Amongst the most dire findings was 91% of those surveyed saying rough sleepers and begging were affecting their business. 81% believed the city centre was not in a good state to attract significantly more people and investment. The findings came from 102 business owners in and around the Queen Street valley area in late September who were asked about the state of the city centre and what factors were hindering their financial success.  

This isn't news. There have been problems with rough sleepers for years now. But the business owners I've talked to in Queen Street say although there was always the odd person around before Covid, it was when Labour turned the inner-city hotels and motels into emergency housing during Covid that things became absolutely dire. Because when everything was freed up, the people stayed. They'd made a home there, they'd found a home there, they weren't going to be moved on, they'd found their people.  

In Ponsonby, when I was living there, there were about three or four characters, men and women, who were either sleeping rough or living in halfway houses. But they were part of the community. You knew them by name, you greeted them. They were they were different. They were odd, but that was okay. We're all different and odd at different times and perhaps not quite as odd as these ones, but they were there first, and they were part of the community.  

And I think we all do have empathy for those who are doing it tough or are going through a tough period in their life or who are just wired a little bit differently. But when you are swamped with people in need, when you are one district, one area that is overrun with people who are odd, who are wired differently, who don't behave as you would imagine civilised humans would behave, who quite literally crap on your empathy, inevitably you will start to take a tougher stance. And I think that's what's happened to the store owners and retailers in Queen Street.  

It's back in the news again. As I said, homelessness is seldom far from it because Labour has suggested that the Government is looking at introducing a ban on rough sleepers in the city. Well, as Chief Executive of Heart of the City Viv Beck told Mike Hosking this morning, bring it on, something needs to change.  

VB: What I'm seeing is we need a game changer. We can't just keep moving people around. As long as there were really good solutions for vulnerable people, I think a majority of the people that we represent would support a scenario where you don't lie on streets or you house people.  

MH: I don't know if you were watching Parliament yesterday, but they seem squeamish about it. Why don't we just be a bit blunt about it? And the cold hard truth of homelessness is that it ruins central cities, and we need to clean it up and clear it out. I mean, it's that simple, isn't it?  

VB: I believe so. And what's been really pleasing in the last four weeks is that there has been constructive debate and people are recognising these are real issues. We need to be bold about this. We do have to care for people. We've got a track record of caring for people. The reality is though, we cannot leave it the way it is. It does need a game change and I really hope the politics don't sabotage a really important issue that needs resolving.  

Oh, I think it probably will. Politics generally does, especially when there's an election looming. I was listening to Ginny Anderson and Mark Mitchell this morning, on the Mike Hosking Breakfast. Ginny said, "Well, where are they going to go? People don't want the homeless outside schools or their homes." Well, no, they don't, but they also don't want them outside their bloody businesses either. Hairdressers and cafe owners and accountants and clothing retailers and the like in Queen Street have had enough of looking after them.  

And I don't think many of the retailers would have a problem with rough sleepers if that's all they were doing. Looking for a warm, safe, dry place to sleep, then packing up and moving on. It's the detritus and the bodily fluids and the aggressive, pugnacious attitudes that most retailers have the problem with. Sleep in the doorway, but it's the associated issues that come with it that are the real issue, the real problem.  

We have got people out of motels. There are no children on the streets, and that's got to be a good thing. There are places,

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks HEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
A month ago to this very day, Heart of the City,
the Business Association for Auckland City Center released a scathing
report that found store owners and officers believed homelessness, too
few police, neglect and disorder, and frightening anti social behavior

(00:33):
were crippling their businesses. Amongst the most dire findings was
ninety one percent of those surveys saying rough sleepers and
begging were affecting their business. Eighty one percent believed the
city center was not in a good state to attract
significantly more people and investment. The findings came from one

(00:56):
hundred and two business owners in and around the Queen
Street Valley area in late September, who were asked about
the state of the city center and what factors were
hindering their financial sALS success. This isn't news, there have
been problems with rough sleepers for years now, but the

(01:16):
business owners I've talked to in Queen Street say although
there was always the odd person around before COVID, it
was when labour turned the inner city hotels and motels
into emergency housing during COVID that things became absolutely dire
because when everything was freed up, the people stayed. They'd

(01:37):
made a home there, they'd found a home there. They
weren't going to be moved on. They'd found their people
and Ponsymbie. When I was living there, there were about
three or four characters, men and women who were either
sleeping rough or living in half way houses. But they

(01:59):
were part of the community. You knew them by name,
you greeted them. They were different, they were odd, but
that was okay. We're all different and odd at different times,
and you know, perhaps not quite as odd as these ones.
But they were there first, and they were part of
the community. And I think we all do have empathy

(02:22):
for those who are doing it tough, or are going
through a tough period in their life, or who are
just wired a little bit differently. But when you are
swamped with people in need, when you are one district,
one area that is overrun with people who are odd,
who are wired differently, who don't behave as you would

(02:44):
imagine civilized humans would behave, who quite literally crap on
your empathy, Inevitably you will start to take a tougher stance.
And I think that's what's happened to the store and
retailers in Queen Street. It's back in the news again,

(03:05):
I mean said homelessness is seldom far from it because
Labor has suggested that the government is looking at introducing
a ban on rough sleepers in the city. That's Chief
executive of Heart of the City, Viv Beck told Mike
Coskin this morning, bring it on, something needs to change.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
What I'm seeing is we need a game changer. We
can't just keep moving people around as long as there
were really good solutions for vulnerable people. I think a
majority of the people that we represent would support a
scenario where you don't lie on streets or you house people.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
So I don't know if you're watching Parliament yesterday, but
they seem squamish about it. Why don't we just be
a bit blunt about it? And the cold, hard truth
of homelessness is that it ruins central cities and we
need to clean it up and clear it out. I mean,
it's that simple, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
I believe so. And what's been really pleasing in the
last four weeks is that there has been constructive debate
and people are recognizing these are real issues. We need
to be bold about this. We do have to care
for people. We've got track record of caring for people.
The reality is, though we cannot leave it the way
it is, it does need a game change. And I
really hope the politics don't sabotage a really important issue

(04:17):
that needs resolving.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh. I think it probably will. Politics generally does, especially
when there's an election looming. I was listening to Jenny
Anderson and Mark Mitchell this morning on the mic co
hosting Breakfast. Ginny said, or where are they going to go?
People don't want the homeless outside schools or their homes. Well,
no they don't, but they also don't want them outside
their bloody businesses either. Hairdressers and cafe owners and accountants

(04:41):
and clothing retailers and the like in Queen Street have
had enough of looking after them, don't put it. Other
parts of the city can have their turn and housing
the homeless. And I don't think many of the retailers
would have a problem with rough sleepers if that's all

(05:01):
they were doing, looking for a warm, safe, dry place
to see then packing up and moving on. It's the
detritus and the bodily fluids and the aggressive, pugnacious attitudes
that most retailers have the problem with fine, you know,
sleep in the doorway, But it's the associated issues that

(05:24):
come with it that are the real issue, the real problem.
It's happening everywhere and cities all around the world. I
mean and Sydney and the part of Sydney that I
was staying in, Pott's Point. It's very close to King's
Cross and there were a lot of women rough sleepers

(05:45):
with the bottles of wine by them. One of them
seemed to be she seemed to have her act together.
She was begging outside the supermarket and five dollar minimum
for the cash. Wasn't interested in your tatty old coins.
It was a five buck minimum for her. Shouted it

(06:07):
at a woman who put two dollars into her little
cardboard box. So, I mean, it's everywhere, but it doesn't
mean that the heart of the city that the retailers
there have to have to endure it and put up
with it. We have got people out of motels. There

(06:31):
are no children on the streets and that's got to
be a good thing. There are places, as Mark Mitchell
referred to, four people to go. It's the associated issues,
the problems that they have that mean they don't feel
either safe staying there, they don't want to stay there.
They don't feel comfortable being within four walls. They're quite claustrophobic,

(06:53):
especially those that have done time. It is a huge issue,
way beyond just putting a roof overheads. If only that
billion dollars into mental health at actually done some work.
So I don't blame the retailers for saying, okay, make

(07:13):
a law move them on. At least if they are
in communities twenty four to seven communities, not retail areas,
they might become part of the community. They're dispersed throughout
the community. You can, I don't know, adopt a homeless person,
but like it was in Ponsonbe back in the day,

(07:38):
I don't know what the answer is. I really don't.
With so much money going into mental health, but it
doesn't seem to be affecting the very people that you
would hope would be benefiting from that massive contribution of
taxpayer money. Those who are living on the edge, those

(08:00):
who are wired differently, those who do need extra help,
and those who are making it almost impossible to run
a business in the central city.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
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