Kerre Woodham: Willis and Richardson debating would be a pointless waste of time

Do you see any advantage or benefit to the country in having a former Finance Minister and the current one debating fiscal policy? 

The current Finance Minister, Nicola Willis, has challenged the former Finance Minister, Ruth Richardson, to a debate. Now, that is misguided in my view, but to be fair, she was grievously provoked. Ruth Richardson is the chair of the Taxpayers' Union. The Taxpayers' Union is a pressure group, a ginger group, founded in 2013 to scrutinise government spending, publicise government waste, and promote an efficient tax system. 

Its basis is its membership is mainly conservative, centre-right, right-wing figures, and it's regarded as a right-wing pressure group. Normally you would think they'd be scrutinising Labour and Labour's spending. Last week, the Taxpayers' Union sent out a provocative pamphlet and an accompanying box of fudge, accusing Nicola Willis of not delivering on her election promises to rein in reckless spending, unsustainable borrowing, and the hiring of endless bureaucrats. The Union accused Willis of failing to deliver the goods and fudging it, hence the fudge that arrived with the press release. 

Provoked and incensed beyond reason, Nicola Willis swiped back. She said, "My message for Ruth Richardson is a very clear one: come and debate me face-to-face, come out of the shadows. I will argue toe-to-toe on the prescription that our government is following. I reject your approach, and instead of lurking in the shadows with secretly funded ads in the paper, come and debate me right here in Parliament. 'm ready anytime, anywhere, I will debate her." So you can see she was a little bit brassed off. 

Willis said she stood by her decisions in government and wanted Richardson to defend her legacy, having introduced the infamous Mother of All Budgets in 1991, when her government under Bolger came in and were left with, I would argue, an even worse fiscal mess than this government inherited.  

It's all got very personal. I don't think there's anything wrong in critiquing decisions made by government ministers, looking at how they're going, giving updates, having a reckon, especially when the ministers came in on a campaign of fixing the economy and reining in irresponsible spending, it's fair enough to say, "Okay, have you?" The Coalition Government possibly hasn't done enough, been innovative enough to suit the Taxpayers' Union agenda. They wanted more. They wanted cuts in spending, they wanted slashing of and wholesale firing of bureaucrats. That's what they wanted, but the Government's in the tricky position of having to be responsible stewards of the public purse and get re-elected. 

And that's a tricky one. The Taxpayers' Union doesn't have to worry about getting elected. It's a stand-alone lobby group. The Taxpayers' Union has criticised Nicola Willis for a measly 1% reduction in public servants, but as David Farrar from Kiwiblog points out, this may well be the first government in history to actually reduce the number of public servants. They're the first ones to have done it. 

It was never going to be easy inheriting the situation left by the previous government, and it never is. The Labour governments spend, that's what they do. But there's also nothing wrong with critiquing the performance of the government. The Taxpayers' Union shouldn't have made it so personal. Nicola Willis should have showed superhuman restraint and not lashed back. 

The debate is a pointless waste of time in my view. I know that we're all political tragics here and we take far more interest than the average person does and if I thought there was any merit whatsoever, and if lessons could be learned or if as a country we would benefit from having these two Finance Ministers thrashing out points of economic order, fine. I just don't see it. I think it's egos have been wounded and it is the equivalent of challenging somebody to 50 press-ups – a pointless exercise. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks HEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Do you see any advantage or benefit to the country
in having a former finance minister and the current one
debating fiscal policy. The current Finance Minister, Nikola Willis has
challenged the former finance Minister Ruth Richardson to a debate.

(00:33):
Now that is misguided in my view, but to be fair,
she was grievously provoked. Ruth Richardson is the chair of
the Taxpayers Union. The Taxpayers Union is a pressure group,
a Ginger group founded in twenty thirteen to scrutinize government spending,
publicize government waste, and promote an efficient tax system. It's basis.

(00:59):
Its membership is mainly conservative center right right wing figures,
and it's regarded as a right wing press us group.
So normally you would think they'd be scrutinizing labor and
labour's spending. Last week, the Taxpayers Union sent out a
provocative pamphlet in an accompanying box of fudge, accusing Nikola

(01:21):
Willis of not delivering on her election promises to reign
in reckless spending, unsustainable borrowing and the hiring of endless bureaucrats.
The Union accused Willis of failing to deliver the goods
and fudging it. Hence the fudge that arrived with the
press release provoked and incensed beyond reason. Nichola Willis wiped back.

(01:47):
She said, my message for Ruth Richardson is a very
clear one. Come and debate me face to face. Come
out of the shadows. I will argue toe for tow
on the prescription that our government is following. I reject
your approach, and instead of lurking in the shadows with
secretly funded ads in the paper, come and debate me
right here in Parliament. I'm ready anytime anywhere. I will

(02:10):
debate her. So you can see she was a little
bit brassed off. Wellis said she stood by her decisions
in government and wanted Richardson to defend her legacy, having
introduced the infamous Mother of All budgets in nineteen ninety
one when her government under Bulger came in and were
left with and I would argue an even worse for

(02:32):
school mess than this government inherited. So it's all got
very personal. I don't think there's anything wrong in critiquing
decisions made by government ministers. Looking at how they're going
giving updates, having a reckon, especially when the ministers came
in on a campaign of fixing the economy and reigning

(02:55):
in their responsible spending. It's fair enough to say, okay,
have you the coalition government possibly hasn't done enough, been
in of it enough to suit the taxpayer's union agenda.
They wanted more, They wanted cuts and spending. They wanted
slashing of and wholesale firing of bureaucrats. That's what they wanted.

(03:21):
But the governments in the tricky position of having to
be responsible stewards of the public purse and get re elected,
and that's a tricky one. The Taxpayer's Union doesn't have
to worry about getting elected. It's a standalone lobby group.
The Taxpayer Union has criticized Nichola Willis for a measly

(03:43):
one percent reduction in public servants, but as David Farrer
from Kiwi Blog points out, this may well be the
first government in history to actually reduce the number of
public servants, and the first ones to have done it. It
was never going to be easy inheriting the situation left
by the previous government. It never is, you know, the
labor government spend. That's what they do. But there's also

(04:08):
nothing wrong with critiquing the performance of the government. The
Taxpayers Union shouldn't have made it so personal. Nikola Willis
should have showed superhuman restraint and not lashed back. The
debate is a pointless waste of time in my view.
I know that we're all political trageics here and we

(04:29):
take far more interest than their average person does. And
if I thought there was any merit whatsoever, and if
lessons could be learned, or if as a country we
would benefit from having these two finance ministers thrashing out
points of economic order, fine, I just said. I think
it's egos have been wounded and it is the equivalent

(04:53):
of challenging somebody to fifty press ups pointless, a pointless exercise.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.