December 17, 2025 • 9 mins
It’s been a tough run for the economy this year, but the Finance Minister is celebrating the progress that was made.
Nicola Willis told Kerre Woodham the economy is growing, which means that when they look back on 2025, they’ll be able to say it ended a lot better than it started.
She says that looking into next year, it’s set to grow much faster, with many more jobs being created.
“People can look forward to their incomes rising faster than inflation and ongoing low interest rates – that's a positive way to start the next year.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry Wood and Mornings podcast from
News Talk S'B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This week we're catching up with different ministers who hold
significant portfolios, and today it is Nikola Willis, Minister of Finance.
I spoke to her earlier because she is flat out
like elizard drinking and asked her to talk her wins
for the year and what her focus will be for
(00:31):
twenty twenty six, and I wished her a very good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Good morning greatly on the show.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Well, let's look back. Are there any wins for the year.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
The economy has been a tough bugger.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, it's been very toast for Kiwiz, I've come through
a really challenging time. The win is that now the
economy is growing, which means that when we look back
on twenty twenty five, we'll be able to say it
was a year that ended a lot better than it started.
And if we look into next year, the economy is
set to grow much faster with many more jobs being created.
(01:05):
Level can look for their incomes rising faster than inflation
and ongoing low interest rates. That's a positive way to
start the next year.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It is I think Keywis there's a lot of kiwis
that are a bit punch drunk. They've heard that things
are going to get better any minute. Now.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Look there's grass shoots.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh my goodness, it's going to turn around thrive in
twenty five and they're like, really.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, look, I totally get it. And I can tell
people about all of the data that retail sales and
the manufacturing index in the business confidence, but unless you
feel it in your family and your business and your workplace,
it's not really real. And so I completely understand that.
And Kee we have been through. It's it's sensible years actually,
(01:49):
because in the post COVID period, we saw those massive
price increases, we saw interest rates, saw people were looking
to get out of that, and it's been a really
difficult economic recovery. But I think increasingly what I am
hearing some people from their own communities and their own
homes is it was just starting to get a little
bit better. And what we want is for that momentum
(02:10):
to continue and for more people to feel better. And
that's why the economic data matters, because it tells us
that there's a realistic reason to think that's coming.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
We've got the GDP out soon. What are you expecting.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Actually, my forecast is that the Treasury have increased their
forecast for what they think has been happening in the
economy in the past few months, as has major economists
from a range of outlets. So I think we could
be in for some a pre Christmas happy surprise.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Were you surprised when you took on the job at
how little you could actually do to affect the economy.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
It's been very humbling to see how the forecasts, which
Treasury obviously gave us before the election, how subject to
change they have been. Because all Treasury needs to do
is make a small percentage point change in the estimate
of future activity or global trade partner growth or whatever
(03:08):
it is. Factor is outside our control and it has
a massive impact on the books and the outlook for
the economy as a whole. So I really had to
focus with our team, what are the things that are
in our control that we can drive forward. And that's
where I'm really proud that our team has been making
a big difference. When you look at what we've achieved
with reducing violent crime, with lifting education standards, with making
(03:32):
sure that we have delivered real tax relief to kiwis
that we are being more disciplined than the spending. Those
things are real, they're what we can achieve, but it
doesn't mean we control the world.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
No exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Going into twenty twenty six into an election, there are
you willing to have tough conversations with kiwis? Do you
think that kiwis are ready to hear that we simply
cannot afford the lifestyle we've had for such a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, it is my job to have tough conversations about
where the dollars that we're spending on your behalf. Remember
it's the tax you pay from your wages isn't actually
having the impact that it should. And we've had a
few of those tough conversations already with New Zealanders. You know,
I think back to the plan to redesign the school
(04:22):
lunch system to say, actually, it shouldn't be first year
fees three, it should be final years fees three. Actually,
can we really afford to say to eighteen and nineteen
year olds, yep, you can just get on the benefit,
that's fine. Can we really afford to have a pay
equity scheme that's no longer about rewarding women for discrimination,
but has turned into a really big grievance industry. We've
(04:45):
had a number of tough conversations and the reason I
know I can keep having them with New Zealanders is
because people get it. Actually, there's no magic money tree.
We can't just racking up debt to the rest of
the world. That's our countries come acropper, and New Zealanders
have asked our government to be responsible in our management
of the finances and put the cash rep matters into
our lease, into our schools, into our hospitals, our doctors,
(05:09):
and to keep doing that while being responsible with to borrowing.
We do need to look carefully at those things which
you've got a bit out of control.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
As soon as Pete you say borrowing, I'll get texts
saying you've borrowed love and labor.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, let's remember what labor left me with, which is
an interest bill every year of around nine billion dollars
on the massive debt they wrapped up. They more than
double debt is a proportion of our economy, bringing it
to the highest level it's been in many generations. And
I think if you look back, what did we get
for that debt? That's the big question I think is
(05:43):
still unanswered because the heaps of money gun went around
during COVID, but we didn't get a new harbor bridge,
we didn't get new hospitals, we didn't get anything substantive,
and so we're now in a position where we're having
to pay that interest off and keep the money going
out the door to all of the public services that
we're still funding and get the books back and balance.
(06:05):
So we are borrowing at the moment. Around eighty percent
of the borrowing over the next four years is for
capital infrastructure investment and things like roads and hospitals and schools.
But we are also borrowing to make sure that at
this time of need, when the economy has been flower
we have that safety net there for New Zealanders who
need it, and we can keep the lights on in
our sexual public services. That's a responsible thing to do
(06:28):
only if we have a plan to reduce the borrowing,
and we do, and that's what I'd want your listeners
to hear is in our plan that I presented, we
will be getting that debt curve bending down, We'll be
getting the books back in balance.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And what will be your big win for twenty six
what's the what's your real goal you're aiming for.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Well in twenty twenty six. A big goal for me
is that everyday New Zealanders have worked so hard these
past few years, have had to really hang on in
many cases feel like their life has got a bit easier.
And by that I mean that at the end of
the week they feel like they're getting head and for
that to happen. That means more jobs being created so
(07:10):
that people feel more secure in their employment and more
optimistic that they can get a promotion or a better
paying job in the future. That means more businesses opening
their doors and taking a risk and taking on a
new investment or deciding to export overseas. It means inflation
staying under control so we don't get there's rocketing prices.
(07:31):
And it means employers feeling confident in us that they're
going to give people some pay rises. So all of
those things are what I'm hoping for in twenty twenty
six because what it comes down to me down to
for me is that family have worked hard, have a
really good keiwi to do all the right things. They
save hard, they work hard, they did a great job
(07:53):
for their kids, and what they deserve and reward for
that is to feel like they can get ahead.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And what do Kiwis need to do?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You can't save the country on your own. What do
New Zealanders need to do?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Oh? Well, I can't help myself, can I? They need
to stick to the course and don't make a terrible,
terrible mistake by putting it our economy at risk and
electing a labor to Parsi mardor their green government. Truly,
we've been through some hard yards together. Let's bank the win.
Let's not put it all at risk again. And I
(08:26):
think that's the task that we have next year as
a government is to prove to New Zealanders that we're
worthy of another term so that we can keep delivering
for them. And I recognize that there's a lot more
work for us to do, and we will be going
hard at it. But my experience of most Keywiss, they're
already doing the right things. They get up in the morning,
they work hard, they put some money in their key wesaver,
(08:49):
they look after their family, they look after their neighbors
and their community. And what you need now as an
economy that's working alongside you. And as I say, the
data tells me that'll be happy next year.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Now before you can crack into twenty six, you'll need
a break. So what's your plans over the Christmas break?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Will we take our kids to a little place called
Riversdale Beach on the Wide and Upper Coast. It's got
one dairy that extends to fish and chips if you
can't do obid cooking, and the contusis life saving, so
they do the Nipper and Cadet program and then they
roll around on their bikes all day. And I essentially
(09:26):
will read a couple of books, hopefully get a bit
of a ten. That's not very PC to say, is it,
But that's what I'll be aiming for and enjoying a
GMT or two well deserved.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you so much for your time, and do enjoy
the break with your beautiful family.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Thank you, We'll do Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
For more from Kerry Wood in Mornings, listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the carry Wood and Mornings podcast from
News Talk S'B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This week we're catching up with different ministers who hold
significant portfolios, and today it is Nikola Willis, Minister of Finance.
I spoke to her earlier because she is flat out
like elizard drinking and asked her to talk her wins
for the year and what her focus will be for
(00:31):
twenty twenty six, and I wished her a very good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Good morning greatly on the show.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Well, let's look back. Are there any wins for the year.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
The economy has been a tough bugger.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, it's been very toast for Kiwiz, I've come through
a really challenging time. The win is that now the
economy is growing, which means that when we look back
on twenty twenty five, we'll be able to say it
was a year that ended a lot better than it started.
And if we look into next year, the economy is
set to grow much faster with many more jobs being created.
(01:05):
Level can look for their incomes rising faster than inflation
and ongoing low interest rates. That's a positive way to
start the next year.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It is I think Keywis there's a lot of kiwis
that are a bit punch drunk. They've heard that things
are going to get better any minute. Now.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Look there's grass shoots.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh my goodness, it's going to turn around thrive in
twenty five and they're like, really.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, look, I totally get it. And I can tell
people about all of the data that retail sales and
the manufacturing index in the business confidence, but unless you
feel it in your family and your business and your workplace,
it's not really real. And so I completely understand that.
And Kee we have been through. It's it's sensible years actually,
(01:49):
because in the post COVID period, we saw those massive
price increases, we saw interest rates, saw people were looking
to get out of that, and it's been a really
difficult economic recovery. But I think increasingly what I am
hearing some people from their own communities and their own
homes is it was just starting to get a little
bit better. And what we want is for that momentum
(02:10):
to continue and for more people to feel better. And
that's why the economic data matters, because it tells us
that there's a realistic reason to think that's coming.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
We've got the GDP out soon. What are you expecting.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Actually, my forecast is that the Treasury have increased their
forecast for what they think has been happening in the
economy in the past few months, as has major economists
from a range of outlets. So I think we could
be in for some a pre Christmas happy surprise.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Were you surprised when you took on the job at
how little you could actually do to affect the economy.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
It's been very humbling to see how the forecasts, which
Treasury obviously gave us before the election, how subject to
change they have been. Because all Treasury needs to do
is make a small percentage point change in the estimate
of future activity or global trade partner growth or whatever
(03:08):
it is. Factor is outside our control and it has
a massive impact on the books and the outlook for
the economy as a whole. So I really had to
focus with our team, what are the things that are
in our control that we can drive forward. And that's
where I'm really proud that our team has been making
a big difference. When you look at what we've achieved
with reducing violent crime, with lifting education standards, with making
(03:32):
sure that we have delivered real tax relief to kiwis
that we are being more disciplined than the spending. Those
things are real, they're what we can achieve, but it
doesn't mean we control the world.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
No exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Going into twenty twenty six into an election, there are
you willing to have tough conversations with kiwis? Do you
think that kiwis are ready to hear that we simply
cannot afford the lifestyle we've had for such a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, it is my job to have tough conversations about
where the dollars that we're spending on your behalf. Remember
it's the tax you pay from your wages isn't actually
having the impact that it should. And we've had a
few of those tough conversations already with New Zealanders. You know,
I think back to the plan to redesign the school
(04:22):
lunch system to say, actually, it shouldn't be first year
fees three, it should be final years fees three. Actually,
can we really afford to say to eighteen and nineteen
year olds, yep, you can just get on the benefit,
that's fine. Can we really afford to have a pay
equity scheme that's no longer about rewarding women for discrimination,
but has turned into a really big grievance industry. We've
(04:45):
had a number of tough conversations and the reason I
know I can keep having them with New Zealanders is
because people get it. Actually, there's no magic money tree.
We can't just racking up debt to the rest of
the world. That's our countries come acropper, and New Zealanders
have asked our government to be responsible in our management
of the finances and put the cash rep matters into
our lease, into our schools, into our hospitals, our doctors,
(05:09):
and to keep doing that while being responsible with to borrowing.
We do need to look carefully at those things which
you've got a bit out of control.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
As soon as Pete you say borrowing, I'll get texts
saying you've borrowed love and labor.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, let's remember what labor left me with, which is
an interest bill every year of around nine billion dollars
on the massive debt they wrapped up. They more than
double debt is a proportion of our economy, bringing it
to the highest level it's been in many generations. And
I think if you look back, what did we get
for that debt? That's the big question I think is
(05:43):
still unanswered because the heaps of money gun went around
during COVID, but we didn't get a new harbor bridge,
we didn't get new hospitals, we didn't get anything substantive,
and so we're now in a position where we're having
to pay that interest off and keep the money going
out the door to all of the public services that
we're still funding and get the books back and balance.
(06:05):
So we are borrowing at the moment. Around eighty percent
of the borrowing over the next four years is for
capital infrastructure investment and things like roads and hospitals and schools.
But we are also borrowing to make sure that at
this time of need, when the economy has been flower
we have that safety net there for New Zealanders who
need it, and we can keep the lights on in
our sexual public services. That's a responsible thing to do
(06:28):
only if we have a plan to reduce the borrowing,
and we do, and that's what I'd want your listeners
to hear is in our plan that I presented, we
will be getting that debt curve bending down, We'll be
getting the books back in balance.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And what will be your big win for twenty six
what's the what's your real goal you're aiming for.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Well in twenty twenty six. A big goal for me
is that everyday New Zealanders have worked so hard these
past few years, have had to really hang on in
many cases feel like their life has got a bit easier.
And by that I mean that at the end of
the week they feel like they're getting head and for
that to happen. That means more jobs being created so
(07:10):
that people feel more secure in their employment and more
optimistic that they can get a promotion or a better
paying job in the future. That means more businesses opening
their doors and taking a risk and taking on a
new investment or deciding to export overseas. It means inflation
staying under control so we don't get there's rocketing prices.
(07:31):
And it means employers feeling confident in us that they're
going to give people some pay rises. So all of
those things are what I'm hoping for in twenty twenty
six because what it comes down to me down to
for me is that family have worked hard, have a
really good keiwi to do all the right things. They
save hard, they work hard, they did a great job
(07:53):
for their kids, and what they deserve and reward for
that is to feel like they can get ahead.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And what do Kiwis need to do?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You can't save the country on your own. What do
New Zealanders need to do?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Oh? Well, I can't help myself, can I? They need
to stick to the course and don't make a terrible,
terrible mistake by putting it our economy at risk and
electing a labor to Parsi mardor their green government. Truly,
we've been through some hard yards together. Let's bank the win.
Let's not put it all at risk again. And I
(08:26):
think that's the task that we have next year as
a government is to prove to New Zealanders that we're
worthy of another term so that we can keep delivering
for them. And I recognize that there's a lot more
work for us to do, and we will be going
hard at it. But my experience of most Keywiss, they're
already doing the right things. They get up in the morning,
they work hard, they put some money in their key wesaver,
(08:49):
they look after their family, they look after their neighbors
and their community. And what you need now as an
economy that's working alongside you. And as I say, the
data tells me that'll be happy next year.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Now before you can crack into twenty six, you'll need
a break. So what's your plans over the Christmas break?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Will we take our kids to a little place called
Riversdale Beach on the Wide and Upper Coast. It's got
one dairy that extends to fish and chips if you
can't do obid cooking, and the contusis life saving, so
they do the Nipper and Cadet program and then they
roll around on their bikes all day. And I essentially
(09:26):
will read a couple of books, hopefully get a bit
of a ten. That's not very PC to say, is it,
But that's what I'll be aiming for and enjoying a
GMT or two well deserved.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you so much for your time, and do enjoy
the break with your beautiful family.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Thank you, We'll do Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
For more from Kerry Wood in Mornings, listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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