August 19, 2024 • 8 mins
Paramedics countrywide are taking to the picket line as part of industrial action at Hato Hone St John.
More than two and a half thousand officers are staggering withdrawals of labour.
St John advises the service will operate at 70 percent capacity.
He says anyone with a life-threatening problem should still call 111 for an ambulance.
The Executive Director of the New Zealand Ambulance Association Mark Quinn called Simon Barnett and James Daniels to discuss funding of the sector.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Simon Barnett and James Daniels Afternoons
podcast from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
ZEDB so Saint John staff, some of which are on
strike even as we speak over this funding issue and
the shortfall and funding and it does seem as I
use the word hotchpotch because it just seems weird that
they have to do, you know, jump through so many
hoops to try and get the money to run their service.
Eighty three percent is funded by the government and then
of course they have to rely on donations, fundraising and
(00:32):
other parts patient part charges to make up the funding shortfall.
So we've got a very interesting call come in a
couple of minutes ago from Mark Quinn. And Mark is
the executive chair of the New Zealand Ambulance Association and
he joins us now Mark, good afternoon and thanks for
calling up.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good afternoon sir, and yes, so it's just happened to
be listening to the show and I have heard the
conversations going on.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, it's great to thank you for calling, so the
executive chair of the New Zealand Ambulance Association. So you
all know has the government actually offered Saint John one
hundred percent funding.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
No, not not what I believe at the moment. They
have not and they are quite true that the current
contract which they are halfway through, was based on an
eighty three percent funding when the contract went in, and
they're quite right that the contract still has two years
or just under two years to go, right.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Is it a contestable contract, like can other people contest it?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yes, certainly I know that in previous with patient transport Services,
which is part of that contract in a sense, and
the staff sit under our collective that has been contested
that that part of it. So there is nothing to
stop another competitor coming in. But because of the infrastructure
(02:00):
and the logistics of it, that is the challenge.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah. So we've sort of heard from a couple of
callers Mark that this is actually a staush between staff
and management at Saint John, not the government at all.
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Yeah, It's it's not as simple as that.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
It is complex in the sense that the funding comes
through Health New Zealand, through Saint John, you know, to
run the ambulance services, and so that the trouble is
at the moment is that unlike the fire and the police,
you know, you've got a third party involved in that,
and that's the complication here, particularly when you're trying to
(02:39):
unearth the truth around where the money is, the funding
and where the money goes.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
So why don't we just cut out that layer of
Saint John and just have Health New Zealand running it?
Speaker 5 (02:53):
So good question, So you know it doesn't you know, Saint.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
John have been very very good at running an ambulance
service in terms of the clinical care and the skills
and how they've delivered them, and they would it. You know,
based on the clinical perspective, it's very ranked, very highly
amongst ambulance services across the world.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
So I don't think people should not forget that.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
They've been very good in delivering that that aspect of it,
and the key to the people it's around this is
around the funding and resources to continue.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
That level of clinical care.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And you know, like I said just mentioned earlier, the
logistics and doing the having the infrastructure to run an
ambulant services not as straightforward because many of the ambulance
stations are tied up with what we call area committees,
which are separate from running from the ambulance operations.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
So it's it's a very complicated.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Model organization in that sense, and you look at an
ambulance station and think, well, saying John owns it.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Well, no, it's not.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Quite straightforward because some of those inlets stations are leased
and some of them are owned by area committee. So
it's not as straightforward as that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right is it about pay to some extent mark you
talked about this extremely high level of clinical care second
to none basically in the world that comes at a
cost are some of our paramedics and that is that
is that we're a little bit of the problem lies here.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, the history, the short history lesson is that you know, say,
you know, originally our ambulance service is going back, you
know the fifty sixties were based out of hospitals and
what's happened over what's transitioned over a period of time,
is that Saint John is you know what for a
better We're brought out or taken over the emblance services
(04:44):
respectively by the what was then individual hospitals and then
dhpe's the last one being Taranaki that was running their
own ambulance service and leaving only Wellington Free Separate is
the only other ambulance service.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
In New Zealand and so they've along the way. It's
certainly the.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Training and education of ambulance officers and communications staff along
the way has increased.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
It's come so more complex and skilled. It's hard to.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Define totally in this format, you know, on a radio station.
But you know we've gone from being where Saint John
did all the training to now being degree based, which
is similar to being a doctor and being a nurse
or being a social worker.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
And that's where we've moved to it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And so you know, the delivery of care has reached
a highest standard than ever before. And this is where
you'll see slogans and you'll see staff talking about being
valued because it's not been recognized and that is the
issue here at the moment.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And would that be one problem they would argue with
the one hundred percent funding from the government, they would
wouldn't get those services or talents ever recognized if it
was government owned always because you'd always have your hand out.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, yeah, I mean noting that the police and fire
have had their own problems. Yes, party, I'm not you know,
no one's saying you know that, can they be easy
look at the fence and say that it looks better,
But they've had their own issues. So that's what I'm saying,
I would try to be balanced about it, is that
the funding is the key to the issue. And that's
(06:22):
the trouble here at the moment is that Saint John
is now saying, and they've been saying since February, we
need one hundred percent funding. And we can argue about
you know, should have Saint John been telegraphing this a
lot earlier, and from a union perspective, we've been saying
for years you probably should have been doing but they haven't,
(06:45):
and now they're asking for the one hundred percent funding
and you know, the timing is not well considering what's
happening in the wider health spectrum.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, very interesting. Just before you go too, Mark, you
might be able to shed some light on this. There's
a person that says they work for Saint John. That's
text in saying Sint John does ten percent of the
health work in New Zealand for two percent of the
health budget. This is one reason the government's happy to
fund Saint John and not take it over fully. Is
that true? Does it do ten percent of the health work?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I can't tell you these percentos, but what I can
tell you is that the amblance services you know, both metropolitan,
provincial and rural, are sometimes the only medical resource in
that area and particularly after the weekend, after hours and
weekends that they can access. And what is when I
said to you earlier about the increasing skills, what has
(07:39):
happened is the ambinance offices traditionally in years gone by
and just would attend emergencies and car accidents, you know,
and heart attacks. Now they're attending a lot more psychiatric incidents.
They are attending incidents that are more around social welfare.
They are attending incidents that are I would argue at
(08:02):
times that we are not being best well trained for
even with through the tudiaries.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
And we've been asking you know, I've been asked myself.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
When I work in the road to go and do
search and rescue looking for someone wandering up and down
the road. So because there are no police available to
do this, and sometimes we've been called increasingly because there
is no police in the situations we shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
It's very interesting getting your perspective, Mark, and I think
you were very fear and balance and what you said
really appreciate your calling.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Up A nice time to you. Thank you for the time.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Thank you Mark Quinn, Executive Chair of New Zealand Ambulance Association.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
For more from Simon Barnett and James Daniels afternoons, listen
live to News Talks d BE, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Simon Barnett and James Daniels Afternoons
podcast from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
ZEDB so Saint John staff, some of which are on
strike even as we speak over this funding issue and
the shortfall and funding and it does seem as I
use the word hotchpotch because it just seems weird that
they have to do, you know, jump through so many
hoops to try and get the money to run their service.
Eighty three percent is funded by the government and then
of course they have to rely on donations, fundraising and
(00:32):
other parts patient part charges to make up the funding shortfall.
So we've got a very interesting call come in a
couple of minutes ago from Mark Quinn. And Mark is
the executive chair of the New Zealand Ambulance Association and
he joins us now Mark, good afternoon and thanks for
calling up.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good afternoon sir, and yes, so it's just happened to
be listening to the show and I have heard the
conversations going on.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, it's great to thank you for calling, so the
executive chair of the New Zealand Ambulance Association. So you
all know has the government actually offered Saint John one
hundred percent funding.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
No, not not what I believe at the moment. They
have not and they are quite true that the current
contract which they are halfway through, was based on an
eighty three percent funding when the contract went in, and
they're quite right that the contract still has two years
or just under two years to go, right.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Is it a contestable contract, like can other people contest it?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yes, certainly I know that in previous with patient transport Services,
which is part of that contract in a sense, and
the staff sit under our collective that has been contested
that that part of it. So there is nothing to
stop another competitor coming in. But because of the infrastructure
(02:00):
and the logistics of it, that is the challenge.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah. So we've sort of heard from a couple of
callers Mark that this is actually a staush between staff
and management at Saint John, not the government at all.
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Yeah, It's it's not as simple as that.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
It is complex in the sense that the funding comes
through Health New Zealand, through Saint John, you know, to
run the ambulance services, and so that the trouble is
at the moment is that unlike the fire and the police,
you know, you've got a third party involved in that,
and that's the complication here, particularly when you're trying to
(02:39):
unearth the truth around where the money is, the funding
and where the money goes.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
So why don't we just cut out that layer of
Saint John and just have Health New Zealand running it?
Speaker 5 (02:53):
So good question, So you know it doesn't you know, Saint.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
John have been very very good at running an ambulance
service in terms of the clinical care and the skills
and how they've delivered them, and they would it. You know,
based on the clinical perspective, it's very ranked, very highly
amongst ambulance services across the world.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
So I don't think people should not forget that.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
They've been very good in delivering that that aspect of it,
and the key to the people it's around this is
around the funding and resources to continue.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
That level of clinical care.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And you know, like I said just mentioned earlier, the
logistics and doing the having the infrastructure to run an
ambulant services not as straightforward because many of the ambulance
stations are tied up with what we call area committees,
which are separate from running from the ambulance operations.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
So it's it's a very complicated.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Model organization in that sense, and you look at an
ambulance station and think, well, saying John owns it.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Well, no, it's not.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Quite straightforward because some of those inlets stations are leased
and some of them are owned by area committee. So
it's not as straightforward as that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right is it about pay to some extent mark you
talked about this extremely high level of clinical care second
to none basically in the world that comes at a
cost are some of our paramedics and that is that
is that we're a little bit of the problem lies here.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, the history, the short history lesson is that you know, say,
you know, originally our ambulance service is going back, you
know the fifty sixties were based out of hospitals and
what's happened over what's transitioned over a period of time,
is that Saint John is you know what for a
better We're brought out or taken over the emblance services
(04:44):
respectively by the what was then individual hospitals and then
dhpe's the last one being Taranaki that was running their
own ambulance service and leaving only Wellington Free Separate is
the only other ambulance service.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
In New Zealand and so they've along the way. It's
certainly the.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Training and education of ambulance officers and communications staff along
the way has increased.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
It's come so more complex and skilled. It's hard to.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Define totally in this format, you know, on a radio station.
But you know we've gone from being where Saint John
did all the training to now being degree based, which
is similar to being a doctor and being a nurse
or being a social worker.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
And that's where we've moved to it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And so you know, the delivery of care has reached
a highest standard than ever before. And this is where
you'll see slogans and you'll see staff talking about being
valued because it's not been recognized and that is the
issue here at the moment.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And would that be one problem they would argue with
the one hundred percent funding from the government, they would
wouldn't get those services or talents ever recognized if it
was government owned always because you'd always have your hand out.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, yeah, I mean noting that the police and fire
have had their own problems. Yes, party, I'm not you know,
no one's saying you know that, can they be easy
look at the fence and say that it looks better,
But they've had their own issues. So that's what I'm saying,
I would try to be balanced about it, is that
the funding is the key to the issue. And that's
(06:22):
the trouble here at the moment is that Saint John
is now saying, and they've been saying since February, we
need one hundred percent funding. And we can argue about
you know, should have Saint John been telegraphing this a
lot earlier, and from a union perspective, we've been saying
for years you probably should have been doing but they haven't,
(06:45):
and now they're asking for the one hundred percent funding
and you know, the timing is not well considering what's
happening in the wider health spectrum.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, very interesting. Just before you go too, Mark, you
might be able to shed some light on this. There's
a person that says they work for Saint John. That's
text in saying Sint John does ten percent of the
health work in New Zealand for two percent of the
health budget. This is one reason the government's happy to
fund Saint John and not take it over fully. Is
that true? Does it do ten percent of the health work?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I can't tell you these percentos, but what I can
tell you is that the amblance services you know, both metropolitan,
provincial and rural, are sometimes the only medical resource in
that area and particularly after the weekend, after hours and
weekends that they can access. And what is when I
said to you earlier about the increasing skills, what has
(07:39):
happened is the ambinance offices traditionally in years gone by
and just would attend emergencies and car accidents, you know,
and heart attacks. Now they're attending a lot more psychiatric incidents.
They are attending incidents that are more around social welfare.
They are attending incidents that are I would argue at
(08:02):
times that we are not being best well trained for
even with through the tudiaries.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
And we've been asking you know, I've been asked myself.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
When I work in the road to go and do
search and rescue looking for someone wandering up and down
the road. So because there are no police available to
do this, and sometimes we've been called increasingly because there
is no police in the situations we shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
It's very interesting getting your perspective, Mark, and I think
you were very fear and balance and what you said
really appreciate your calling.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Up A nice time to you. Thank you for the time.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Thank you Mark Quinn, Executive Chair of New Zealand Ambulance Association.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
For more from Simon Barnett and James Daniels afternoons, listen
live to News Talks d BE, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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