There's calls among industry experts for the Government to throw unscripted TV hits a financial lifeline to save local content and jobs.
Many are concerned that unemployment will impact New Zealand's entertainment sector without a financial boost.
Andrew Szusterman from South Pacific Pictures joined the Afternoons team to discuss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We're looking at whether or not reality TV show should
get a government rebate given the loss and advertising revenue
in the industry, the loss of jobs. Joining us now
and you can be on the program as well on No.
Eight hundred eighty ten to eighty. But Joining us now
is the managing director of South Pacific Pictures. Andrew Shusterman
has been with the company since twenty twenty. He's worked
on shows which are in this category of reality or
(00:40):
what is also known as unscripted content, So shows like
Travel Guides, The Doghouse, Snack Masters, The Traders, I mean
The Traders, Big Show, Travel Guides. These are major shows. It's,
as I keep saying, it's not just married at first sight.
So whether or not a being eligible for the rebate
is something that could really benefit the industry and therefore
(01:01):
New Zealand Andrew Shustaman joins us now. Good afternoon, Hi
com hell are you do be very good? So Shane
Curry article it's in the paper today, What did you
make of it?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Well, I was dr I was actually just dropping my
son back off to go back to university, and I
was listening to your show on the way back and
heard the topic, and I've read Shane's article this morning. Look,
using the word reality is highly inflammatory, right it is.
It gets everyone thinks they know has their picture of reality,
and in their mind, reality is just junk and isn't
(01:32):
good TV. Realistically, what we refer to as content is unscripted.
If you take a show like Dancing with the Stars,
that isn't a reality TV show, It's an unscripted light
entertainment show. So by just referring to these shows as reality,
of course we expect and it's a great talkback topic
because you know, it's we want people to argue about
(01:53):
these things, much like we do on Married Up First Site.
When we watch Married Up First Site, the reason we
watched that. We're not looking at watching that show for,
you know, for great storylines. We're watching it for the arguments.
And this is what makes things race. And the thing
about these shows and shows like That's Australia is that
they rate incredibly, incredibly well and most of your audience,
(02:15):
or a lot of the audience, if they were honest
with themselves, they would actually accept that they have watched
an episode to are marrit at First Site, that their
partners probably watch it and they probably get caught up
in a few of those episodes, because the ratings prove
that that's the case. When we look at this from
a New Zealand point of view, we look at this
about making it an even playing field. So currently, if
we were to shoot, if Married at First Site Australia
(02:37):
was to shoot in New Zealand, it would be eligible
for a rebate. It could get the rebate a government rebate.
Local shows of international formats can't. And we're trying to
even that playing field because the television environment is changed
so dramatically as we know that these high rating shows
and for many reasons along for advertising review and the
(03:00):
fact that the streamers are taking audience share off what
was traditional television being TV and Z and Stey and
TV three means that these shows are still watched and
that backs up your argument earlier today. But the funding
model needs to change because if we lose these shows,
like you said, we have a massive hole unemployment and
(03:20):
you know in the industry, and on top of that
have an inability to provide creatives to make international shows
on a mass scale, and our industry, the local industry,
and the international industry are combined and one cannot survive
without the other. And if we don't have a local industry,
we don't have an international industry. It's that simple.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And that's what I was saying before, is that you know,
whether we look down our noses at certain shows or not,
that people who work in the industry work across lots
of different shows, and so.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yes, it's so subjective. Exactly when we say that someone
looks down their nose at one of those shows, that
show may rate incredibly well and be someone's favorite. Not
everyone is going to love everything. It's like if you
look at some scripted series or some documentaries, some are terrible,
some are amazing. It's the same unscripted space. It's no different.
It's just when we put that reality lens over it.
(04:12):
We use the word reality and we automatically think Kardashians
or we think something of van Elk that we that
we go into the space where we just hate it.
And it has to be a way more measured conversation
around unscripted content shows. And this is about audiences. This
is about creating shows and maintaining shows that audiences love
(04:33):
and there is no doubt that they love them, even
though if on talkback people say they don't, because that's
the nature of talkback. And so I feel like there
has to be just bringing some even key to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Right, No, no, no, I want that, you know, and
you know, and I've been trying to do that because
I've worked in TV as well, and you know, and
I think it's so sad when you realize that there
are people, like you were saying, people who are creatives,
people who have these skills, and there's still a demand
to watch these things. But if people can't be employed
(05:08):
by it because of that lost and advertising revenue, then
that impacts us down the line, and we don't see
as many New Zealanders on our screen.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Correct and that and at the end of this, at
the end of this, it's about how do we keep
our stories alive? And this is a wider conversation which
goes into a whole different category around the streamers and
the impact of the streamers and the fact that they
aren't commissioning any local programs here, which is a whole
different conversation for a different day. But this is about
protecting our local sector, about making shows that people watch
(05:39):
and enjoy on a regular basis, and keeping New Zealand
is employed while as you say, representing ourselves on screen.
And some people might like those shows and some people
may not. But the alternative is if we head down
this line and get rid of popular shows that people
enjoy on TV, is that not only does the industry collapse,
(06:01):
but the television the television channels themselves collapse. Right, So
it's be careful what you wish for if that's the case.
And all I'm saying is be that we're measured in
your approach. I'm talking about when you're thinking about these things,
you're not just categorizing in one place and going reality TV.
Is this therefore I must hate it?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, exactly, Which is why to explain that that so
much of what falls under the umbrella of reality, which
in the in TV Lingo is unscripted. It shows that
people will love or rather.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Country Calendar as an unscripted center you go. You could
turn around and say that Country Calendar is a reality
show if you wanted to put it in that space.
It's in that same realm of things that don't rely
on a script, and so we have to just be
careful about the way that we couch this and the
way we talk about this, because it isn't as simple
(06:54):
as saying we don't want married at first sight or
any of that stuff on TV.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
A couple more questions, Well, yeah, I mean as you
say it rights through the roof. A couple of questions.
While I've got you, how optimistic are you? And by
the way, I for you are just joining us. Andrew
Schusteman is with us, managing director of South Pacific Pictures.
How optimistic are you that the government will realize that
they do have to intervene in order to help save
(07:23):
the broader industry.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Let's be kept what we're saying here. We're saying this
is a rebate. This isn't funding. This is basically money
has to be spent for money to be returned. Right.
This is not basically going for a handout. This is
in saying can you pay for my show? Facts, This
is basically saying we have all this money here that
the networks are putting in or the commercial partners are
(07:46):
putting in. This is about going, how do we get
This is about attaching a rebate to that. So this
is not simply going can you pay for one hundred
percent of the show? This is not New Zealand on air.
The rebate scheme, the screen production rebate has been an
action for years and years and years and works well.
It works on shows like it works on films like Avatar,
It's worked on Lord of the Roots. It is That's
(08:07):
how rebates work funding. How do I think the government
is going to look at this piece here? I don't know.
I can't pick that. I hope they look at it
favorably because it's about employing New Zealanders and making sure
where you have ourselves represented on screen more and more.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And then the second question, and this is something you
briefly touched on so hypothetically, and a show I could
imagine doing it. Let's say you've got The Bachelor or
The Bachelor Rat the Australian version or an American version,
and they decide that they want to film in New Zealand,
so not the New Zealand version, but an international version.
So they is an international show, irrespective of what genre
they are. They is an international show. They can get
(08:46):
the rebate. But if we were making the same show here, no.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Rebate on P one hundred percent. And look there are
caveats to that, but the theory, and that's getting into
deep detail. But in theory, the Bachelor US can come
to New Zealand and should it meet the criteria, which
has nothing to do with the format or the show
title itself, it is eligible for a rebate. That's how
screen production works. It's the same as that. That's the
(09:10):
way that it works. It's incentivized people to come here.
For instance, if we look at a show like The
Trader's New Zealand, which has done incredibly well on the BBC, again,
it's taking our shows internationally, yet I can't get that
show funded through the rebates currently because it's an international format.
But it also exports itself. So I know New Zealanders
(09:32):
nuanced conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right, I know New Zealanders who live in Singapore who
love that show. New zealandersho live in the UK who
love that show. That so so one, it's exporting our culture,
but it's also giving New Zealand as a broad a
taste of home that I know that's done extremely well overseas.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
And if you think about things back in the day,
you know the idols, the ex factors that is showing
telling us in our talents, our kids and our teens
and adults on television and showcasing singing under a formatted
kind of world. But it is again, it's another part
of our storytelling. It's another part of seeing our culture
(10:07):
on TV. And how sad is it that we don't
have a lot of that on television anymore and that
we're relying on international imports of shows. Don't we want
to see more of ourselves on screen? Are we beyond
the cringe factor of that? I think we are if
we truly admit it. We do well with our music,
we do well with film Internationally, our television shows scripted
(10:28):
get picked up, our unscripted shows get picked up. Let's
be proud of that, Let's celebrate that. Let's see more
of it. Instead of coming up with reasons as to
why we shouldn't. This is about employing New Zealanders. It's
about hearing our stories and seeing ourselves on TV here
and internationally.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Great stuff. I echo everything you've said and please to
have you on the program. Andrews, managing director of Take
Care My Pleasure, Managing director of South Pacific Pictures.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
For more from News Talks, Ed B. Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on IR Radio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We're looking at whether or not reality TV show should
get a government rebate given the loss and advertising revenue
in the industry, the loss of jobs. Joining us now
and you can be on the program as well on No.
Eight hundred eighty ten to eighty. But Joining us now
is the managing director of South Pacific Pictures. Andrew Shusterman
has been with the company since twenty twenty. He's worked
on shows which are in this category of reality or
(00:40):
what is also known as unscripted content, So shows like
Travel Guides, The Doghouse, Snack Masters, The Traders, I mean
The Traders, Big Show, Travel Guides. These are major shows. It's,
as I keep saying, it's not just married at first sight.
So whether or not a being eligible for the rebate
is something that could really benefit the industry and therefore
(01:01):
New Zealand Andrew Shustaman joins us now. Good afternoon, Hi
com hell are you do be very good? So Shane
Curry article it's in the paper today, What did you
make of it?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Well, I was dr I was actually just dropping my
son back off to go back to university, and I
was listening to your show on the way back and
heard the topic, and I've read Shane's article this morning. Look,
using the word reality is highly inflammatory, right it is.
It gets everyone thinks they know has their picture of reality,
and in their mind, reality is just junk and isn't
(01:32):
good TV. Realistically, what we refer to as content is unscripted.
If you take a show like Dancing with the Stars,
that isn't a reality TV show, It's an unscripted light
entertainment show. So by just referring to these shows as reality,
of course we expect and it's a great talkback topic
because you know, it's we want people to argue about
(01:53):
these things, much like we do on Married Up First Site.
When we watch Married Up First Site, the reason we
watched that. We're not looking at watching that show for,
you know, for great storylines. We're watching it for the arguments.
And this is what makes things race. And the thing
about these shows and shows like That's Australia is that
they rate incredibly, incredibly well and most of your audience,
(02:15):
or a lot of the audience, if they were honest
with themselves, they would actually accept that they have watched
an episode to are marrit at First Site, that their
partners probably watch it and they probably get caught up
in a few of those episodes, because the ratings prove
that that's the case. When we look at this from
a New Zealand point of view, we look at this
about making it an even playing field. So currently, if
we were to shoot, if Married at First Site Australia
(02:37):
was to shoot in New Zealand, it would be eligible
for a rebate. It could get the rebate a government rebate.
Local shows of international formats can't. And we're trying to
even that playing field because the television environment is changed
so dramatically as we know that these high rating shows
and for many reasons along for advertising review and the
(03:00):
fact that the streamers are taking audience share off what
was traditional television being TV and Z and Stey and
TV three means that these shows are still watched and
that backs up your argument earlier today. But the funding
model needs to change because if we lose these shows,
like you said, we have a massive hole unemployment and
(03:20):
you know in the industry, and on top of that
have an inability to provide creatives to make international shows
on a mass scale, and our industry, the local industry,
and the international industry are combined and one cannot survive
without the other. And if we don't have a local industry,
we don't have an international industry. It's that simple.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And that's what I was saying before, is that you know,
whether we look down our noses at certain shows or not,
that people who work in the industry work across lots
of different shows, and so.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yes, it's so subjective. Exactly when we say that someone
looks down their nose at one of those shows, that
show may rate incredibly well and be someone's favorite. Not
everyone is going to love everything. It's like if you
look at some scripted series or some documentaries, some are terrible,
some are amazing. It's the same unscripted space. It's no different.
It's just when we put that reality lens over it.
(04:12):
We use the word reality and we automatically think Kardashians
or we think something of van Elk that we that
we go into the space where we just hate it.
And it has to be a way more measured conversation
around unscripted content shows. And this is about audiences. This
is about creating shows and maintaining shows that audiences love
(04:33):
and there is no doubt that they love them, even
though if on talkback people say they don't, because that's
the nature of talkback. And so I feel like there
has to be just bringing some even key to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Right, No, no, no, I want that, you know, and
you know, and I've been trying to do that because
I've worked in TV as well, and you know, and
I think it's so sad when you realize that there
are people, like you were saying, people who are creatives,
people who have these skills, and there's still a demand
to watch these things. But if people can't be employed
(05:08):
by it because of that lost and advertising revenue, then
that impacts us down the line, and we don't see
as many New Zealanders on our screen.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Correct and that and at the end of this, at
the end of this, it's about how do we keep
our stories alive? And this is a wider conversation which
goes into a whole different category around the streamers and
the impact of the streamers and the fact that they
aren't commissioning any local programs here, which is a whole
different conversation for a different day. But this is about
protecting our local sector, about making shows that people watch
(05:39):
and enjoy on a regular basis, and keeping New Zealand
is employed while as you say, representing ourselves on screen.
And some people might like those shows and some people
may not. But the alternative is if we head down
this line and get rid of popular shows that people
enjoy on TV, is that not only does the industry collapse,
(06:01):
but the television the television channels themselves collapse. Right, So
it's be careful what you wish for if that's the case.
And all I'm saying is be that we're measured in
your approach. I'm talking about when you're thinking about these things,
you're not just categorizing in one place and going reality TV.
Is this therefore I must hate it?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, exactly, Which is why to explain that that so
much of what falls under the umbrella of reality, which
in the in TV Lingo is unscripted. It shows that
people will love or rather.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Country Calendar as an unscripted center you go. You could
turn around and say that Country Calendar is a reality
show if you wanted to put it in that space.
It's in that same realm of things that don't rely
on a script, and so we have to just be
careful about the way that we couch this and the
way we talk about this, because it isn't as simple
(06:54):
as saying we don't want married at first sight or
any of that stuff on TV.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
A couple more questions, Well, yeah, I mean as you
say it rights through the roof. A couple of questions.
While I've got you, how optimistic are you? And by
the way, I for you are just joining us. Andrew
Schusteman is with us, managing director of South Pacific Pictures.
How optimistic are you that the government will realize that
they do have to intervene in order to help save
(07:23):
the broader industry.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Let's be kept what we're saying here. We're saying this
is a rebate. This isn't funding. This is basically money
has to be spent for money to be returned. Right.
This is not basically going for a handout. This is
in saying can you pay for my show? Facts, This
is basically saying we have all this money here that
the networks are putting in or the commercial partners are
(07:46):
putting in. This is about going, how do we get
This is about attaching a rebate to that. So this
is not simply going can you pay for one hundred
percent of the show? This is not New Zealand on air.
The rebate scheme, the screen production rebate has been an
action for years and years and years and works well.
It works on shows like it works on films like Avatar,
It's worked on Lord of the Roots. It is That's
(08:07):
how rebates work funding. How do I think the government
is going to look at this piece here? I don't know.
I can't pick that. I hope they look at it
favorably because it's about employing New Zealanders and making sure
where you have ourselves represented on screen more and more.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And then the second question, and this is something you
briefly touched on so hypothetically, and a show I could
imagine doing it. Let's say you've got The Bachelor or
The Bachelor Rat the Australian version or an American version,
and they decide that they want to film in New Zealand,
so not the New Zealand version, but an international version.
So they is an international show, irrespective of what genre
they are. They is an international show. They can get
(08:46):
the rebate. But if we were making the same show here, no.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Rebate on P one hundred percent. And look there are
caveats to that, but the theory, and that's getting into
deep detail. But in theory, the Bachelor US can come
to New Zealand and should it meet the criteria, which
has nothing to do with the format or the show
title itself, it is eligible for a rebate. That's how
screen production works. It's the same as that. That's the
(09:10):
way that it works. It's incentivized people to come here.
For instance, if we look at a show like The
Trader's New Zealand, which has done incredibly well on the BBC, again,
it's taking our shows internationally, yet I can't get that
show funded through the rebates currently because it's an international format.
But it also exports itself. So I know New Zealanders
(09:32):
nuanced conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right, I know New Zealanders who live in Singapore who
love that show. New zealandersho live in the UK who
love that show. That so so one, it's exporting our culture,
but it's also giving New Zealand as a broad a
taste of home that I know that's done extremely well overseas.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
And if you think about things back in the day,
you know the idols, the ex factors that is showing
telling us in our talents, our kids and our teens
and adults on television and showcasing singing under a formatted
kind of world. But it is again, it's another part
of our storytelling. It's another part of seeing our culture
(10:07):
on TV. And how sad is it that we don't
have a lot of that on television anymore and that
we're relying on international imports of shows. Don't we want
to see more of ourselves on screen? Are we beyond
the cringe factor of that? I think we are if
we truly admit it. We do well with our music,
we do well with film Internationally, our television shows scripted
(10:28):
get picked up, our unscripted shows get picked up. Let's
be proud of that, Let's celebrate that. Let's see more
of it. Instead of coming up with reasons as to
why we shouldn't. This is about employing New Zealanders. It's
about hearing our stories and seeing ourselves on TV here
and internationally.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Great stuff. I echo everything you've said and please to
have you on the program. Andrews, managing director of Take
Care My Pleasure, Managing director of South Pacific Pictures.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
For more from News Talks, Ed B. Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on IR Radio
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