Full Show Podcast: 21 July 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello great, you said us.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Welcome to man Tyl Full Show pocast number one six
five for the twenty first of July ment some Monday.
Had a fantastic show and unfortunately we got embedded and
boring in c chat that sucked the absolute life out
of me and we didn't get round to what I
wanted to talk about, which was the CEO. We got
there for half an hour.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, it's so many phone calls on that.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
The CEO and the bloody ye.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Lady.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
But so we only have a juicy little half hour
of gossip at the India.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
But it was a good half hour of pass it
wasn't it.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah? Yeah, And we had some great chats about lying
on the CV. So ultimately a good show. But I
could have done with another hour on that salacious, sexy
topic of infidelity.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
We might bring it back tomorrow maybe, Yeah, plenty more
to come in that story. But download, subscribe, give us
a review, and give a task Kim love you.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
The big stories, the big issue, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons News
Talk said the welcome into Monday.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Hope you're having a great day and you had a
fantastic weekend as well. Awesome to have your company as
it always is.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
You get a Tyler one. And before we get on
to how much you should lie on your CV or not,
I've got a question for you, yep and everyone. So
I was out at a restaurant in the weekend. I
want to really ask the question about how demanding you
can be at a restaurant. So I was out with
my partner and her mum for her mum's birthday. Nice

(01:45):
happy birthday, Rosie. And I was sitting there and my
partner goes, oh, the light here, it's too bright. And
she goes, I'm going to ask them to turn the
light down, and I said, you categorically cannot in a
restaurant ask them to change the lighting setting.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
You can't.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
That's too far. That's you can ask for a glass
of order. You can maybe asked to taste the wine
before they pour it. I don't know, depending on how
flash places now, but I was mortified. As a good
Southern land you get what you get and you don't
get upset. You cannot in my opinion, am I wrong?
Love to hear on nineteen nineteen. You cannot ask that

(02:27):
is outside of the remit of the the wait staff.
The lighting design is what it is.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I don't know. This is a great discussion. I love this.
I got a few follow up questions for you. How
much did you pay for the dinner?

Speaker 3 (02:40):
How much do I pay for the dinner?

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Wow, well the dinner was pretty expensive?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay? Well that it was a move?

Speaker 5 (02:47):
Was it at?

Speaker 3 (02:47):
It was at Kazuya Kazuya your Kazuya, which is which
is a nice Japanese restaurant on Simon Street in Lookland.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yep, whoo. I'm just having a look at the menu now,
that's flash mate, where goo beef ebaloney put a crayfish
in there as well?

Speaker 3 (03:06):
The tasting menuo Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, the premium seven course tasting menu. Yeah, lardie dah yeah.
I think for that price and I'm eving to look
at the price now, what was the price two hundred
and ten per person? Geez, geez, what a treat? I
would say, you're okay to ask for them to turn
the lights down a little bit. What if it was
the AC unit that was blasting and you were freezing

(03:29):
your butt off. At that point, you'd think, geez, can
I just ask them to crank the heating up a
little bit? But you are grin and bear at. You're
at a nice place. It's just a bit of bright lights.
Just look down.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
It's just it's this thing that I talk about a
lot in this show called chronic dissatisfaction syndrome. You just
sit down.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's okay.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
You just suck it up as it is. You enjoy
the environment as it has been presented to you. You
don't sit there and immediately find things to be annoyed at.
The lights are slightly too bright. I just think it's
a wrong attitude to take towards the evening.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, all right, okay, I look the teachts are already
coming in thick and fast.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
I have definitely asked for the music to be turned
down in restaurants because when I'm out with my elderly
parents and they are hard of hearing, it can be
incredibly difficult for them if the backcome music is too loud.
That's from Nikola. Well, yeah, that's different. That's different than
the lights. Music's too loud and your parents with their
hearing aids can't hear.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, you don't want to be shelting at Grandad or
your parents.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Anyway, anyway we had to talk about I thought everyone
would support me and I could use it against my
lovely partner as proof that she's too fussy.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
But no, no, no, no, full come in. It's not
of Tracy turning the lights down. It turns out, once again,
I'm the dick. You get used to that, mate, Right
our to today's show after three o'clock. Gone of the
days where you could have and a fear in a
public setting. In piece, it turns out in the Internet age,
we all know the cameras are always rolling and people's
worst moments draw millions of eyeballs as online audiences flock

(04:52):
and to weigh in, and such as the case for
Andy Byer and the chief executive of tech company Astronomer,
who last week was film cuddling with his human resources
chief at a Coldplay concert in Boston. It's gone everywhere.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, that's what everyone's been talking over the weekend. There's
been some very funny memes. Look who knows why, but
the CEO has stepped down, and there was comments from
his company about the standards they set. But what should
the penalty be for being caught cheating? You know, personally,
I don't care what my workmates are up to. And look,

(05:24):
I guarantee right now, whoever you are, where you are,
there's a good chance that someone that you're working with
is cheating.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Highly likely.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
I mean it's a good chance you went to a
concert with another woman in the weekend and your partner,
lovely partner, may doesn't know about it. Good chance you
just didn't go viral on it. Yeah, but is it
any any of your works business that you've been cheating?
I know, what should the penalty for that be? In
twenty twenty five, we'll talk about that after three o'clock.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
After two o'clock, a damning government briefing is raised significant
concerns about the credibility of NCEEA. So this document was
obtained by The Herald over the weekend and among the
red light alerts to Minister Stanford is that the flexibility
built into NCEA, including regarding what assessment students sit, mean
courses can be structured around those perceived to be easier

(06:11):
to accumulate credits. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Look, as a parent with kids that have done the
NCAA system. I just want to know exactly how well
my child is doing. I want to know the cold
hard facts. If they're rubbish at something, I want to
know that so they can either get better at it
and we can put some resources there, or they can
focus their energies on something that they're actually good at.
All we need, as far as I'm concerned as a parent,

(06:35):
is a cold heart percentage point yep, A cold hard
where they are at. If it's ten percent, I need
to know. If it's ninety percent, I need to know.
But I don't want to sugarcoated with funny words or whatever.
I just want to know exactly how they're doing. And
I want to be told straight to their face you
are doing very badly or you are doing very well,

(06:56):
and you want everyone to know.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Do you agree with that? Oh? Eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
So I don't care if it's Cambridge or NCAA. Let's
get a systemhere that happens.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yep, that is going to be a good chad after
talk clop it right now. Let's have a chat about
embellishing things on your CV. This after new Justice appointee
Farley Andrew Lesser says he's decided to resign from everything
after an investigation explore exposed rather than flaws in his CV.
So in June, Lessa was appointed of Visiting Justice, with

(07:23):
the power to investigate prisons and prisoner treatment. He does
have an impressive list of credentials, but a claim he
made in a speech at the University of Texas that
he had a jurist doctor that's a law degree at
Lale Yale turns out not to have been true. Here's
the quote from him, that degree doesn't exist. What I
meant by that is I have studied at Yale. It

(07:45):
was during COVID. It was an online course on governance. Yeah,
but I don't have a doctorate at Yale.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
No, who says that who pretends to have a doctor
is a doctorate from Yale is quite something.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, to just say that you've got easy to pick apart,
isn't it? If anyone does the slightest bit of digging
on that, they can find out. But where do you.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Get into you are fantasis? Where do you get into
a position where you start saying things that are so
ridiculously untrue? But CVS in general, I know this isn't
a CV issue with him. But cvs are qualifications And
in general, have you lied on a CDV?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Because and how much?

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Because I would say that most people kind of massage
a CV definitely, So how much lying on a CV
is okay? And are you an idiot if you don't
sort of just massage it from say I worked here
for three years too. I was an exemplary employee, much

(08:45):
loved by my fellow workers, and made a real difference
at this company for three years.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Team member attention to detail is top notch. But you're right,
I mean any sort of.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Have any weakness is working too hard.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I'm a perfectionist, but you're right. I mean, when
it comes to a CVN you've got to present what
you achieved at your previous job, and you are part
of a team that achieved that. You don't mention the
team members, you say and you CV. Surely most people
would do this. So I was a critical part of
achieving this particular goal. And then you set out what
that goal was. You don't just say you are a limming.

(09:17):
You were just one of twenty people involved in this project.
You claim ownership of that project. It was only got
across the line because of what I brought to that situation.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, and say a secondary question on e one hundred
and eighty ten eighty. If you're an employer and you
find out that your employee has lied on their CV,
how do you feel about it? Is that immediate dismissal?
But what if they have lied on their CV and
they've ended up being a great employee anyway, and so
what they did to get over the hurdle for you

(09:47):
to hire them has ended up being a boon for
both of you. Then do you care? Do you care
if they've said they've got a doctorate from Yale and
it turns out that they're excellent on the floor of
nol Leaming or whatever you're.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Working out, Oh, eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty.
I would hope on that question most employers, unless the
lie was incredibly far featured or even damaging to the company,
would you care? Because half the hassle of trying to
find a good worker is trying to find a good worker.
You can go through all the pilava of looking at
a CV and doing multiple interviews and a lot of

(10:19):
people still get duds. So if you've got someone who's
told a few porky's on their CV, but it turns
out to be an excellent worker. Why would you give
a stuff? Surely you'd look past that.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, well, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty What makes
a good CV if you're writing a CV, as a
good CV include not necessarily lying, but some stretching of
the truth. And are you an idiot if you tell
the full truth on your CV?

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. It is sixteen past one.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heathan Taylor Adams. Afternoons used talks.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Be very good afternoons. You we're talking about cvs. Have
you ever embellished on your CV? Is that the normal
thing to do? You talk up your experiences that you've
had in the past to make you stand out. It's
on the back of a gentleman who has resigned from
all other jobs that he's got after he was found
out to have made a bit of a pulky about
a doctorate he got at Yale.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
As this lying, says Robert. As I approached my sixties
and beyond, I started leaving things out of my CV
and for fear that they'd think I'm an old bloke.
That's an interesting one. So you've got some great things
on your CV, but there's just slightly too many of
them in the years add up. Yeah, I would say
that anyone that's thinking of not employing someone because they're
in their late fifties or sixties as an idiot. Yeah,

(11:44):
I agree, because you're going to get some of your
best employees around that age exactly, experience, you know, dedication,
all those kind of things come with age.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yep, one hundred percent. Stephanie, how are you.

Speaker 6 (11:55):
Hi?

Speaker 7 (11:55):
Good?

Speaker 2 (11:57):
And what's your view on on CVS and embellishing or
potentially even telling a few white lives.

Speaker 7 (12:04):
No, I've had a care and so I've employed a
lot of people and built a lot of teams. And
the most important thing I think you can have in
your work environment is trust. It's a value that you
have to have in order to build a solid team.
And you know and enjoy and appreciate each other and

(12:26):
trust each other and hard work, attitude and trust are
really important. So I think that lying isn't a good value.
It's against our values, and it was certainly against things
that I have all my working life, and I actually
ended up unfortunately hiring a couple of people have had

(12:49):
lied and then by downate it the most sneaky damn
things to other people and their teams and go far
for them. Because they're live, they're not putting out you
can't trust them. So it's a big deal when your
values don't line was the integrity of the organization and

(13:13):
the team working.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Is it possible though, that they desperately want and need
this job and so the CV and maybe it's something
like I don't know, they slightly upgrade the job title
that had at another place from from to or they
I don't know, they sort of changed the dates a

(13:36):
little bit, or you know, they stretched slightly the credentials.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
You know, Like, is that really that bad?

Speaker 7 (13:49):
Well, I think it is because it's not telling the truth.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
I thought.

Speaker 7 (13:53):
You know, someone earlier just said something like, you know
you can say in your TV and yours are part
of that team. If you just think I was a
part of that team, that we achieved it in my
heart in that team's development or achievements or whatever, I
do this and this and that and that. I think

(14:14):
that's really powerful. And when you're interviewing someone to FORTI,
you'll follow up on that, and then a good person
who's interviewing will certainly pursue and actually uncover mostly whether
or not people are all actually they should do.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
And that's the point, Stephanie, isn't it? Sorry? You carry on? Sorry?
Say that part again?

Speaker 7 (14:38):
You've got I mean, if you've got a company you're
trying to run with integrity, look after your customers, hopefully
make a positive bottom line, you have to have people
you can trust who are in your team.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, But to your point about getting to the interview stage,
because that's where I sit with people who embellish or
maybe look make themselves look a bit better than they
actually are at their previous position. To me, that is
to get to the interview stage. And at that point
it's up to the interviewer to get a measure of
the person that they are talking to and to ask
those questions, to try and break down some of those
things that they might have questions over. So I've got

(15:11):
no problem with people embellishing and making themselves look like
a fantastic candidate, but by maybe tweaking a few of
their skills to get to that stage and then at
that point that's on the employer, isn't it.

Speaker 7 (15:24):
Well, no, I just agree because I mean a lie,
a lie, you know you're not you're not telling the truth.
And I can remember someone once years and years ago,
they they applied for a job and they knew that
lots of people are the other people were, and they
used a particular calligraphy on the on the application m hm.

(15:46):
And I mean they because you get lots and lots
of people submitting in there having their cvs. But this
person drew attention to themselves for doing something different and
I obviously did it themselves. And so yes, that came
to it in the pile and came up to interview.
And whilst the person doesn't have probably a lot of

(16:10):
us experienced some of the others. I took that as
being really good because they had initiative and they didn't lie.
That's what they did. They consequently used that to advance
several different ways. So no, I'm not being on liars
because they turn out to be self serving in a team.

(16:30):
And also the company doesn't benefit because they can they
don't serve the customers to the best of their efforts
all the time. They put themselves. First, I don't approve
of lying, I really don't. I think it's just sets
the business if everyone on the team really knows they
can trust it. God, they had so many people who

(16:53):
just thin would be staggered about. And they took my
breath away because how could they be so awful to
do these various things that I'm described haven't described, to
just get one over their teammates. It's just not coming
in the weekend, falsifying documents, lying about what they did

(17:15):
in comparison to somebody else, almost kind of thing. This
is a filthy, filthy culture. It's a topic culture.

Speaker 6 (17:21):
And I don't of lying because how about it, how.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
About this example Stephanie, just to see, just test the
limits on it. So, back in the day, I used
to be a television like an editor right the edited
TV ads and TV shows and such, and so I
was going for a job at C four was the
place at the time. And in the interview they said,
can you edit on an Avid? And I said, yep,
I'm excellent on an Avid. I've had a lot of experience.

(17:46):
I hadn't. But but but I edited on another Michelle.
I was editing on final cut at the time and
an Adobe Premier year, just to give the exact examples.
And so I said that, and then just once I
got the job, I spent a couple of days boning
up on Avid editing and turned up completely capable of
doing the job and ended up being an excellent employee

(18:09):
in my opinion going forward. If i'd see it at
that point, nah, I go, no, I've never used EVID before.
They might not have employed me, and then I would
have missed out on a job and they would have missed.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Out on me.

Speaker 7 (18:20):
Well, and I hear what you're saying, and I completely
agree was why you did it? But why wouldn't you
say I've been editing on the three fours or the
thirty months. I've done that and this came out very well.
And I've also adjusted to this one. You know, you
can always tell yourself and someone who's got employer, it's
going to pick that up immediately.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Ye, But a lot of people are going for this job,
and you you you'd be concerned that they'll just go, well,
the last guy, these guys are equal, but that other
guys had ever experience, ever editing experience. So I'll go
with him. So for me and my family. The most
important thing for me was I got this job so
I could put food on the table.

Speaker 7 (18:58):
So that would that they stopped my emotional blackmail.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
You can see why you got the job, Stephanie. You
can see why you got the job. He's got away
with words.

Speaker 7 (19:15):
If I, if I had a mession, I would have
pardoned because I would have been able to tell, you know,
if you told the truth, and I would have got
the message that you were a damn good guy and
crazy boy that's the keys.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, right, well, thank you so much for your call, Steffan.
I appreciate that. So a's what's your ever experience? But yeah,
I'm great.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's awesome, light so much high level. Yeah, I love
that program so much.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
On that program.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yes, heepes, that was a great call. Thank you very much, Stephanie.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty love to hear
from you. Is it okay to embellish on your c
V to make yourself look better there? Maybe you were
at your last position. Nine two nine two is the
text number. It is twenty eight past one.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
The sixer says, would you get on a plane with
the pilot that had lied about the training you idiot.
Uh probably not. No, No, let us at the far end.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, very true.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Example pass one.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers. The mic asking Breakfast.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
The Prime Minister is with us, So you've cut into
the public service.

Speaker 8 (20:15):
And yet I read a rung A tomaerriki is spending
two million dollars a year plus on communications stuff.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
How's this possible? It's funny you say that someone raised
that with me. I say that at all.

Speaker 9 (20:24):
No, What I mean is it is an awful lot
of comms people in the government service and we've been
trying to say, get rid of the back office, make
sure you put the resources in the front line.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Why don't you just second? Well, I mean we're putting.

Speaker 9 (20:35):
The pressure back on CEOs to say, you've got these
goals to deliver for us. How you organize your resources
is up to you, but we're going to hold you accountable,
so you're in.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Charge of it.

Speaker 8 (20:42):
And this is I rung A tomaeriki who couldn't get
out of their own way if their life depended on it.
Back tomorrow at six am, the Mic Asking Breakfast with
Maylee's Real Estate News.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Talk z B Afternoon have passed one. Plenty of great
techs coming through.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
So we're talking about embalancing your CV on the back
of this. It's a different situation.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
What's his name was, Andrew I fairly Andrew lessis so
quite a different situation here that he told a Texas
University crowd during a speech that he had a doctorate
from Yale. He does not have that degree. He did
an online course during COVID and that was found out.
And it's a weird thing to lie about.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
And back here he had stepped down from his position.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, so he was appointed a new position to oversee
all the prisons within New Zealand. But he has now
resigned from all of his roles and he did have
quite a lot of credentials in a CV, but it's
all tumbled down now.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Just made up, just a ridiculous lie for no good reason. Yeah,
it's so odd. But that's a bit different then slightly
embellishing your CV. As this textas says, fake it till.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
You make it, yep.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
I think there's something in that. Yeah, you just got
to get the job for you yep. And then when
you're there, you can be the most honest person in
the world and be a real force.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
For the workplace.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
But if you don't massage your CV, then you may
never get the ability to shine and make everyone's lives better.
I applied for a position in the New Zealand Police
and missed out. Said this is text to lance. During
the feedback, I got told I had been too honest
in my interview.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
At two hodents for the police. Here you go, right,
we're taking more of your calls on eight hundred and
AC ten eighty were a little bit late. So headlines
coming up and if you want to see the tax
nine two nine two, it is twenty eight to two.

Speaker 10 (22:26):
You talk said, be headlines with blue bubble taxis it's
no trouble with a blue bubble. Inflation rose to two
point seven percent over the year to June. That's up
from two point five to March. But that's alongside tough
conditions for households, with steep food price rises, particularly hard
on lower income families. Principles say consultation is the key

(22:49):
to developing a high school qualification New Zealand can be
proud of. After criticism and a new report on NCEA,
the Secondary Principles Association says NCAA needs to be robust
and work to educate students from all backgrounds. Regional Airlines
sounds As says costs imposed in the past three months

(23:11):
are forcing it to drop its Blenham to christ Church
and Christchurch Twarnica flights from September. It's selling a fleet
of small planes and ten jobs will go. A Dunedin
woman who was pulled over transporting children in an after
school car pool on Friday scord nearly four times the
legal alcohol limit. The well Being Protocol reckons community funding

(23:33):
can be done way better. You can find out more
at enz at Herald Premium. Back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Thank you very much, Rayleen, and we're talking about a
story today. New Justice appointee Farley Andrew Larsa says he's
decided to resign from everything after an investigation exposed flaws
in his CV.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
So.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
The big one was a speech he made to the
University of Texas that he had completed a jurist doctor
a law degree at Lale at Yale, and after an
investigation he admitted that wasn't true. He said, I quote,
the agree doesn't exist. What I meant by that as
I had studied at Yale. It was an online course
on governance. But I do not have a jd at Yale,
so that is very different. And we've taken a step

(24:12):
backwards to talking about emballishing on your CV. Clearly that
is an outright lie about a degree that that person
did not have. But we're talking about embellishing or making
yourself look better on a CV.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Yeah, I mean just little things like you're part of
a team, but then you just put in might call
it my team, or you claim you lead the team,
but you're part of.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
A successful team exactly.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
I mean that's a classic CV embellishment, or you know,
claiming skills you don't have. I mean, there's a lot
of things you could do that are a long way
from making up a doctorate from Yale. Yeah, there's a
long way back, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
But like saying I've got attention great attention to detail,
now that highly likely is not true all of the time.
There might be sometimes where you're pretty good at the
smaller things, but I'd say most people put that on
their CV, and it's just the reality. There's a lot
of people who are not great at attention to detail.
But of course you put it there because you want
to put your best foot forwar.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, well, I mean that's probably like a step too far.
Maybe I'm just trying to find the limit is to say,
claim a title if you're a director, and use if
you're a manager and you call yourself director, yeah, you know,
or you're a slightly upgrading yourself.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah. But there's that line though, wasn't it say you're
a salesperson and then you decided to put executive salesperson.
That is closer to what you could do. But if
you said you ran the company, clearly that's too far.
That's a straight up lie.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, can't Welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (25:39):
Yeah, thanks, guys. Can I start my saying when you
take your wife out to dinner, mat, I feel like
you do everything you possibly can to make your white
heads the most enjoyable night you can mean, I'm about
the lights down in body lightsown nice.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
So you're saying that I should have put instead of
going you don't make it fast, Just be quiet, just
enjoy the meal. I should have been one, darling. If
you don't like the lights of get the lights sort
of for you anything you want and I'll move you
play to be let.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
They'd be like because there's all the things you are.
But yeah, I have a light too, has orders. So
when we go to a restaurant, there is quite a
few things that sensory. We like to sit in the
booth and there's a few things. It's lights and the
heats and different things that I need to have sort
of at the restaurant when we go to make her.

Speaker 11 (26:39):
So.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Yeah, so what you're saying is instead of trying to
fix her, I should try and fix her problems for her.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Absolutely, that's like.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
To be fair to a testy start to what was
supposed to be quite a nice dinner.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
Yeah you told man, Ye see, any think we actually
I'm old school. I'm forty five and I've been a
truck driver or a Darius barber for most of my life.
I'll have a light on a CV. I I have

(27:21):
only the last five or six jobs i've got. I've
handed my CV and I so I answered you. I've
said to them, I will work for you guys free
for a day. You can put someone in the truckle
with me and they can walk for me, and I'll
drive sweet for a day. And I will get a
job with the Innident. And I've got my last five

(27:42):
jobs out there that's slowly becoming out like that today's.
But yeah, that's my question to you. Event would be
if you were going for a job and somebody else
was going for that job and they lied and enough
to get the job ahead of you with that flying
s CV okay, or.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Like, yeah, I see what you're saying because the moral Yeah,
I totally see what you're saying there. So you're because
you'd be gutted if you found out that they lied
to get ahead of you, and you would think that
they're a terrible human being for doing it. But I'm
kind of saying that you should be an equally terrible
human being to get what you want, which is kind

(28:24):
of a shaky moral standpoint for me to take you
quite right there, you can't.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
You're very smart man, quite easily here. You're like a
life coach form at the stage can carry on.

Speaker 4 (28:42):
I just I gave up alcohol and drugs nine and
a half years ago, and I talked to the first
couple of people may talking about honestly. They just want
me to be honest, yeah, and I want and I
told them about it, and I didn't get the job.
So it was kind of but I've struck with that.
Somebody asked if I haven't issue without whole, Like, yes, absolutely,

(29:05):
I'm an addict and I'm a nine and a half
year scene and I'm doing everything I need to stay cletenance. Yeah,
just as the job.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, And a lot of people are saying that. I mean,
just to to Khn's point about someone else told a
porky and they got the job ahead of you, I
would if that happened to me, I would think they're
going to get found out, depending on how big that
lie is and Khn's example, if they like and said, yep,
I've driven trucks for twenty years and they don't know

(29:34):
how to drive a truck, They're going to be found
out pretty fast, and so then there's a bit of
a shoulden freud. And but also you'd look at that
and thinking they're not going to last. They're going to
get found out pretty quick, and then I'm ready to
go to step up.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
But I guess I would push back on that a
little bit and say, desperate times, cause for death, desperate measures.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, So if you've got a family to feed and
you really need the job, and it's a slight embellishment
of the situation, then I don't know where to see
moral that that that's when things get murky in a
moral sense, because I would think that your first moral
duty is to make sure that you can house and

(30:13):
feed your family right deferently. So that's whatever that takes
at that point beyond breaking the law. I guess yeah,
I would say you'd go to and if that means
in my case, saying I could use software that I couldn't,
then I would maybe don't feel great about that, but
better than you know, the not being able to pay.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
The rent, Yeah, yeap, or your kids going hungry. Absolutely.
Oh eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. We'll take more of your calls very shortly.
It's seventeen to two.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Your home of Afternoon Talk mad he than Taylor Adams
afternoons call Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talk said, be.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Very good afternoon due. It is a quarter to two
and we're talking about embellishing things on your CV to
get a foot on the door. Is it ever okay?
I eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
You've got to say, there's a lot of very strictly
honest people here, and it's good to see, especially on
nine two ninety two. How about the companies that mister
is that themselves at the interview saying they have a
great culture, et cetera. I mean, I'm sure there's a
lot of people out there that have gone to an interview,
and the way the place has been sold to you
is very different from the actuality when you start the job.

(31:22):
You know, we're a place that looks to move people
up quickly on merit.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
There's a lot of opportunities for you to make a
difference here.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
The great team culture. We're a family here. Yeah, that's right,
We're a family.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
It's a classic one. I don't see this workplace so
much as a workplace, but more as a family. You
hear that so much it's not a family.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
And then you get in there and realize everybody hates
each other.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
I lied on my life that I was straight and
married with kids, but in reality I am gay.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Wow, this.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Texture So if you if you couldn't get the job
back in the day when people were prejudiced against gay people,
would was that morally wrong for them to not share
that information?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's a great question, Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Your anti your anti CV embellishment totally.

Speaker 12 (32:16):
I think it's a moral and I think it goes
against the grain and a lot of us. But one
stage further, I'd just like to amplify as people out
there who actually wear medals to remember to parade in
anzac service that they've never been given or their family
hasn't given. How bad is that?

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Stolen vala as they call.

Speaker 12 (32:37):
It, correct stolen valor yes as I call them.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
I listened to this podcast recently about this woman I
can't remember her name, but she lied about being in
the Twin Towers and nine to eleven to the point
where she happened to people investigated she'd seen all the
major events and these heroes, and then started talking to
families about what she'd seen, became a head of this
charity and took all the glory about her time in

(33:05):
nine to eleven, and then it was proven that she
was not nine to eleven at all. You just go,
you're it'spect what a despicable human being.

Speaker 12 (33:13):
Yeah, it's just stoopid low to try and get something
or gain credit or kudos for something. Really that you
haven't had in the first place, you know, And why
do people stoop that load? Why do you want to
embellish you see the if you haven't got that credential.
But they're going to get found out, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, and that is despicable talking about wearing medals that
you haven't earned to an Anzac Day ceremony or Mett's case,
the woman who said she was a nine to eleven
and she wasn't there. But to me, Jeremy, there's a
spectrum here. You might disagree about the and let's call
them embellishments. And I think, you know, I just need
to clarify that because there's a lot of people coming
through on the text machine saying no, never lie. But
I think there's a difference there between a pathological liar

(33:53):
who's clearly got some sort of mental illness that would
do the things you're talking about, versus someone saying that
they were a greater part of a team and a
previous job to make themselves look a bit better.

Speaker 12 (34:04):
Yeah, but it's what Matt just said previously. You know,
he said you'd do everything and any thing for the
sake of his family. You know, Well, if it's anything
and everything in your embellishing cv possibly to get greater
renumeration or greater title in the job, which would lead
to a better position remuneration. Yeah, that's one point, a
su guest, which were saying. But to actually put like

(34:25):
if you said stolen valor medals upon your chest for
conflicts that you've been to, or a massive instance like
the Twin Towers, that is wrong in every single sense
in the world, and in fact, up in the UK
there is an actual Walt Amittis Hunters Club which goes
out sort of sorting these people out, and to actually
do it in the United Kingdom, wearing medals on your

(34:47):
chest is actually going to be a legal thing, and
that leads to a custodial sentence.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
You're right, there are limits, because I generally believe that
and I tell my kids no white lies, and generally
in my life I believe that honesty is the best policy.
But there are eache cases Jeremy say, for example, and
I know people always go to this era for the
edge case examples, but say you're in the house of

(35:14):
Anne Frank and she's in the attic and the Nazis
knock on the door and they say, is there anyone
in your house? In this house, then that is the
far edge case with I believe that you go, no,
there's no one else in here.

Speaker 12 (35:35):
Life or death, isn't it? That is life or death.
I mean, at the end of the day, if it's
your life or their life, and you're going to get
away with not losing your life for making a story
up or to protect your family and your loved ones,
that's it. Yes, I mean that's an isolated incident. But
going back to writing, it's physically writing and coringuring up
a CV and then applying for a position, which you

(35:56):
know on the CV, quite a lot of the information
that you supplied or just an isolated piece isn't correct.
It's fabricated. That's where I'm coming from. But it's also.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
I think we don't agree qualifications too far.

Speaker 12 (36:10):
Yeah, it's all in human instinct. It's what you're going
to get out of it. Why would you do it
in the first place? Yeah, tell the Nazis that there's
nobody obviously, well I'm going to I'm going to survive.
But to put something on a CV for what for
an extra ten fifteen, one hundred K?

Speaker 10 (36:25):
What?

Speaker 13 (36:25):
What? What? What?

Speaker 12 (36:26):
Is the benefit, you know, what is the benefit? Well fabricating?

Speaker 3 (36:30):
What about what about a mission? So say you're a
CV and you've recently been photograph Okay, let's say what
if you work in HR and you've been recently recently
photographed at a Coldplay concert and you get probably looking
for another job and your and your CV up to
that point has been pretty good.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
But you just lying by what are they call it
lying by mission?

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Mission?

Speaker 14 (36:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Mission? So basically you say you don't mention that one
time that you accorded the coldplate concept, canodling with your
with your CEO.

Speaker 14 (37:05):
But yeah, but what things like that?

Speaker 12 (37:07):
I mean, that's just gone tone out and that's been
around the world five times. Everybody's talking about in the pub,
around the breakfast table, in the Smoko bar, two love birds,
but looking at a Coldplay concert makes national headlines. Yeah,
I think that's absolutely crazy. You know their lives are
ruined through media.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, Jeremy, you won't get media, Jeremy, you won't like
a topic. After three o'clock, I'm turning off, boys, I'm
turning back.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
It's gonna be a good honestly, honestly, honestly, I can
say honestly that we've got a good angle on it.
We've done our research and we're up.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
To the task.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
And I think if you just employ us for from
three to four, I think we'll deliver what you need
from from us.

Speaker 12 (37:46):
Well, I'll stay tuned in, but you've got further than
sixty degrees in the angle to sort it out. Otherwise
you're coming back on yourselves.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Jeremy, thanks you call, Jeremy, appreciate it. Right're going to
play some messages, but beat with more of your calls. Oh,
eight hundred and eighteen eighty is the number of calls.
Seven to two.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Mediath Tyler Adams taking your calls on eight hundred and
eighty eight. It's mad Heath and Tyler Adamsons news Dogs.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
It is five to two windy. Good afternoon to you.
We've got about ninety seconds before the news. Sure.

Speaker 15 (38:17):
I am an employer and had an applicant last week
emailed to me. It said, hey, mate, I'm applying for
this job at your esteemed organization and went on to
say that you know she was applying for this particular role.
I opened her CV and she was applying for a
different role at a different company. Now she's gone on

(38:38):
about her detailed, her attention to detail and professionalisms. I
wrote back and said, you'll have no attention to detail
and not very professional calling to the owner of the company.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Hey mate, Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 15 (38:51):
He got out chart for those.

Speaker 13 (38:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Now, I wonder if people using chat GPT to write
their cvs and and it's going to make people dumber
and dumber. Are not doing that kind of thing?

Speaker 15 (39:01):
Just oh, esteemed organization has always chat GBT or AI
because that do they No one would talk like that.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Jee such a red flag we did. That's a great one.
Thank you very much for We're going to carry this
on for a little bit because we've had so many
phone calls and texts. So eight hundred eighty ten acy
little white lies or embellishments on your CV? Are they ever? Okay?

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, Well, I'm impressed by the amount of people that
listen to news talks. He'd been Texan and nineteen nine
two and say they would never lie about anything.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Ever, liars.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
I'd like to test the limits of that.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, right, that is coming up. Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten and eighty is the number to cool New
Sport and weather is on its way. Really great to
have your company. As always, you're listening to Matt and Tyler.
Good afternoon to you.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Your new home are insateful and entertaining talk. It's Mattie
and Taylor Adams Afternoons on news Talk.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Sevvy, very very good afternoons. You welcome back into the show.
At is seven past two. I've just been involved in
the most exciting possible thing. Yeah, so on the.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Coffee machine out here in News Talks, he'd be it's
got a percentage of how long to go in the
making of the coffee. And I was third in the
queue and the time was ticking down for us to
be on air, and someone was making a complicated late
macchiato that was going incredibly slowly, and I was like, oh,
I've still got time. And then you abandoned ship, Tyler

(40:26):
because you thought it was too close.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
I got out of that. I mean, it was a
wonderful thing to watch, folks, because Matt was very diplomatic.
He was sitting there and saying, how much time we got,
Tyler trying to hurry this feller along, but the guy
was in no hurry.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
We there's someone else after that as well. Meanwhile, we're
about to go live, and I'm not willing to abandon
my coffee. No, So then I'm watching it. It was
like one of those scenes in the movie, you know,
you're trying to download the secret files onto the USB
stack and the person's coming back to their office.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, we've got to go. We're going to go.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
It's really increased my my heart rates. It's quite exciting actually.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
But we made it and you got your coffee, so
there was good news. No coffee for me at this stage.
We ran out of time, but I'll get mine. Hey,
now before we're going to carry on this conversation for
a little bit because we had so many people texting
wanting to have a chat about this embellishing things on
your CV. Is it okay? This is after an investigation
has discovered a man called Farley Andrew Lesser. He did

(41:19):
tell a bit of a poky about his credentials to
a speech to Texas University where he said he had
a jurist doctorate degree from Yale. That wasn't the truth,
and now he's decided to resign from everything but talking
about white lies. And I've just been reading a chapter
in a book about telling white lies. Okay, so can

(41:40):
I mention this chapter? So I mentioned the book for
you just before we go to the book.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
So what I'm saying on a CV there's room Morally,
I believe if you really need the job or you
want the job, to just leave a few things a
little bit unsaid, and maybe if you take a little
bit more credit for something, then maybe was yours at

(42:06):
the last job. And if you know that you can
an up skill by the time you start the job,
to maybe not mention that you haven't quite used that software, right,
just just a little it's not even it's not a
white lie, or maybe it is. Maybe they're just sort
of a white lie to get into the job. And
generally speaking, I believe in honesty. Yeah, absolutely truth. So

(42:26):
I just think you can just in the CV world
because you.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Know, so it's a white lie, but a white lie
is lying for good reasons, right, good intentions. It might
be a bit of a selfless act if you're trying
to get the job to make sure that your family
has food on the table. But here's a bit of
the chapter, and then I'll mention the book. So telling
lies is an excellent way to complicate life and pilot
on stress.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Okay, I see what you're doing here. You're hoisting me
on my own potad.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yep. So the book in question, by the way, is
a life less punishing Thirteen Ways to Love the Life
You've Got, written by Matt Heaths. Telling lies is an
excellent way to complicate life and pylon stress, whether it's
making untrue statements, creating false or misleading impressions, hiding secrets,
or telling white lies. In his book Lying, neuroscientist Sam
Harris makes a strong case against dishonesty. Dishonesty. He points

(43:11):
out that a liar must expand expend rather mental space
and energy to uphold a falsehood, remembering what he has
said to whom, and when this is effort you could
be using for authentic communication. This is well written. The
stress grows because a liar then has to analyze every
conversation to protect the lie. Whether you get rumbled on

(43:32):
it or not, it generally makes things more complex and difficult.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Whether you go and I can see why that book
by me was the number one best seller.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Very well brilliant.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
But you have done what you've done there, Tyler, and
it's very clever. You've hoisted me on my own potat Yeah, correct,
because I have written extensive, extensively about how I think
liag is a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I researched and what would Sam Harris think about So
this conversation.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Now I'm currently on shaky ground because I'm saying that
there are points. But in that book, I go on
to say I tried to spend a week not lying,
and then in the first five minutes, within five minutes
of trying, I lied when my my lovely partner asked
me whether I liked her matching brown shorts and single
it combo, Yeah, I said, it looks amazing, Daylor.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
You're a smart man.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah. So I failed on the first step with a
white life.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
But when it comes to white lies, and this is
a question for you, Matt and for our listeners. So
to me, embellishing the CV or a white light if
it is done for a selfless purpose, whether that's getting
your job, to look after your family, or in that instance,
saying that your partner looks really good on whatever she's wearing,
even if she's not to me, is a selfless act.

(44:40):
So that's a difference. Even if it is dishonest, it
is still selfless. If you lie to better yourself. Then
that to me is a no.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
No, is it a selfish act. The reason why you're
saying to your partner that they look great in this thing,
and they do look great in it, but maybe what
they're wearing slightly odd. The reason why you do that
is not to be selfless. You do it to get
rid of the hassle and just to smooth things over,
because the actual right thing to do is say, know,

(45:09):
that looks a bit weird, rather than them going out
and someone saying that's a bit weird.

Speaker 11 (45:12):
Right.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
And actually, if you're listening, Tracy, we've disgusted because she
read the book.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, and she read, But that was my brown outfit,
wasn't it? Your bloody lied you look good, Tracy. It
was just you know, the clothes were a bit different,
That's all. But yeah, I hears it.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
So arguably, the honest truth makes people make the right
decision for themselves. And that's and I guess the reason
why I'm seeing a little bit of nuance in it
in the CV region is because you're trying to get
the Ah, God, it's hard. I could be on shaky
ground with maybe maybe if you think that you could

(45:48):
be great for the employer. Yes, right, if you honestly
believe that you can do the job and you'll be fantastic,
then maybe leaving a couple of things out and twisting
a few things here and there isn't the bad worst thing.
But yeah, I understand I'm on shaky ground logically.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Oh one hundred and eighty, ten to eighty. If you've
ever embellished on your CV, why did you do it?
And what did you embellish? Love to hear from you.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
And look, we all agree that this muppet that's saying
he's got a doctorate from Yale and he didn't. I mean,
that's that's out the gate. That's insanity.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, you know that fabrication. Yeah, and a degree.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
And if you're a pilot, don't say that you've got
your part.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Listen your tone. And if you're a heart surgeon, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
The obvious points, Mike, whatever you want to say to
a prospective boss, nothing beats a reference from former employers
to secure the job. So important keeps people honest and reliable. Yeah,
but I've always got people asking me to be their
reference and asking me to say certain things, and.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
You've got to tell them a white lie and say look,
I'm just.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Well, I'm an honest person, so I don't. But if
they're asking me, they're actually asking around their groups of
friends to come up with references. Anyway, David, welcome to
the showy fellows. Are right, very good.

Speaker 14 (46:55):
Just going back twenty five thirty years ago. Top of
thing when we were living in London, flatipus and one
of the guys went along. He was actually a property value,
quite a smart guy named Matt Taylor. He's got practice
here in New Zealand now. But anyway, he went along
to a job as a handyman and the guy said

(47:18):
to Mark, could you go and hang a door? And
he goes, I met before and he goes, oh, well
could you go to knock down this wall? And he goes,
well I'm not too sure, I've never done that before.
And he asked him something about and then they got
what's the handing about you? And he goes, I just
live around.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
The corner, so he is a handy man.

Speaker 14 (47:41):
Yeah, And he laughed him off and carried on the goad.
They just ended up on the building side shed of
boxing with some old Irish guy getting paid the same money.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Yeah, that's a great Yeah, that's good one.

Speaker 14 (47:55):
Thanks how many time you can how many times I've
told that story to people?

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yeah, well you nailed the delivery of it. Thank you
so much for your call, David. Now, I had a
friend who he was working in the mind over and
you know Australia, as so many of us do, and
he sought he wanted to get out of the mines
and he took a job on a farm. It was
a sort of a man from Snow River situation. If

(48:20):
you're listening, you know who you are, and you know
who you are, Logan Pain. And I won't use this
full name. I'll take that back. We'll call him l
Pain now, we'll call them Logan p. Anyway, he just
turned up and for a job breaking in horses, and
so he arrived with this farmer, you know, out back,

(48:41):
and the guy said, okay, let's see what you got,
and he got a Logan to his credit, got with
a horse and tried to imitate what it was like
to break in the horse. And then eventually the farmer
just said, mate, you've never been near a horse in
your life, as you have you and Logan said no.
And then and the farmer said, you know, I'll give
you a job. Just the pure gumption for you to
come out here and try and break in a horse

(49:02):
and nearly kill yourself means you've got something.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Mate. That's his sort of king. Ended up working for
him for quite a while.

Speaker 14 (49:08):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Oh one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
It is sixteen past two. Plenty of texts to get
to as well.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Your home of afternoon Talk Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams afternoons
call Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth Talk said.

Speaker 16 (49:24):
Be.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Very good afternoon, dear. We're talking about embellishing on your CV.
On the back of his story about a gentleman who lied,
straight up lied about a doctorate that he said he
got at Yale during a speech to the University of Texas,
But he never got that degree. He studied at Yale
online during COVID. His name is Farlet. Andrew Lesso was
appointed to quite a high powered job and now he's

(49:47):
decided to resign from everything.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
This Texter who's a recruiter says, Hi, guys, who are
the absolute muppets who are conducting the interviews. Any decent
recruiter would expose all eyes and then the applicant would
never get a chance to get another opportunity. Cheers Graham.
This Texas says, I've hired a lot of people into
accountancy jobs over the years, never really cared what's in
the CV more if I can communicate easily with them,

(50:11):
always looking to provide some upskilled opportunities. Perhaps some embellishment
may have filtered a few of my hires out right.
What if you endanger others, sayss texta at getting the
job via lying, Matt, You're on very shaky ground. I
really do believe I can drive this to go.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Well, yeah, but you made the point that if it's
a pilot, for example, when you say that you've got
ten thousand flight hours and you've got zero flight hours,
that is very different to say that I've got attention
to detail and I'm a team player and you might
not be a team player.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Well yeah, It's like the example I gave when I
was going for a TV editing job, editing for a
TV station, an overnight editor, and they said the software
that they use, and I said, yeah, I can do that,
but I hadn't done it before. But I backed myself
before I started the job to learn the software exactly,
and that was a difference between getting the job and

(51:05):
not getting the job and getting the job. I mean,
I could feed the fan so sweet airs.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
And nobody's going to die, and then using a different
and then then I landed it and was buddy, great, yeah,
and look at you now, I wait, one hundred and
eighty teen eighties the number to call Jack. Your thoughts
on this very good? Yeah, I have.

Speaker 6 (51:22):
There's a couple of things, just just The first one
was there was a politician that declared he had a
couple of degrees and he didn't and he was a
leader of a political party, and the the you know,
that's pretty pretty rude. Really, yeah, it's just disgusting. I
found that out. I'm a I'm a I've got a
couple of degrees myself, and I had a company and

(51:43):
I was hiring people from overseas because they were hard
to find in New Zealand. And when I found out,
James Shott, really I really got really really angry with
that because it's not it's not it's not really really right.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
So can I just get sorry because I'm not I
see this on TV?

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Was it on a c as LinkedIn?

Speaker 6 (52:03):
Was it yeah, yeah, when you when you googled him
on his part elementary when they say what they are
in their parliamentary standards. He had a degree in Wellington
University and he had a degree in bath University in Scotland,
and when they checked them, they were all bullshit. He
didn't have anything anyway.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
I got just got to make sure where I create
that Jack slightly, and you're quite right about the Bachelor
of Arts, but that was on his LinkedIn and I'm
not defending this at all, but I'll just read back
what that story was at the time. So he had
to go back and never look at his socials to
correct his study history. Asked if he had a Bacheler
of Laws, sure said he didn't, so why did his
LinkedIn say he did, I haven't looked at my Lincoln

(52:42):
in years LinkedIn in years? He said, I will take
a look at it. But ultimately, when I put the
stuff on my LinkedIn, I put the dates I was
studying towards the BA. But I've always been very open,
and I've joked about it quite a lot that my
qualification for this job is that I am a middle
class guy.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
So hang on a minute, how did he get the
point we.

Speaker 6 (52:59):
Don't need to we don't really done it to go
he did anyway, he lied it. But the thing is,
when you're a guy like me as an engineer, I'm
the engineering company, and when you're spending a lot of
money hiring people and you've got these people come up
and say they've got these things, and whether they've forgotten it,
you don't forget these things, right. And I was spending
a lot of money as a business owner trying to

(53:21):
hire qualified people, and there was very short We were
very short at the time ten and fifteen years ago
of very highly qualified engineers. So I was actually hiring
people from overseas. And there was a certain country where
a lot of people were running away. I won't stay where,
but they were coming to His Zealand with these cvs
and they look like they're pretty good.

Speaker 15 (53:42):
And I was.

Speaker 6 (53:43):
I hired one guy and I says, mate, are you
really an engineer? I was watching his work and I says, mate,
who was doing the work for you?

Speaker 4 (53:50):
Is old?

Speaker 6 (53:51):
We had other followers do the work. We just set
in an office and I sacked him immediately. He took
me to the small claims court. I just ignored him
to turn up. I kept on throwing the letter and
I didn't turn up at all. And when they said
they're going to they're going to have me up for
a fine, I just ignored them because the guy wasn't qualified.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
He said he was.

Speaker 6 (54:09):
But then when I had several other guys came in
from the same country with these big cvs who didn't
see that the CV's out for you guys, because I
couldn't checked the qualifications. So in the end I asked them,
I said, well, there's a worlder there, there's a peat
weld in the midweld, and I want your well, this
sends up for me. And you know, none of them
could act welopers. And they go from this country where
you couldn't check them out, and I says, well where

(54:30):
did you guys learn you get do degrees from? And
I thought, Jesus is difficult. You know, it's really difficult
to check the place from a certain countries with their qualifications.
And I think it was so hard when you own
a company and you've got it, you've got a lot
of work on and you get these people with these
bulls at TVs and you say, well, how do you

(54:51):
really work?

Speaker 3 (54:51):
So it's the current situation. You'll know this because I
know there's ninety day trials or whatever. And we had
a caller before Cahn, I think it was who was
saying that he offers when he goes for a job, Look,
I'll work for you for free for a day and
show you what I can do. So what is the
you know, there's there's a job interview, a practical side
of it. Sounds like that's what you do, Jack, as

(55:12):
you go, well.

Speaker 6 (55:14):
I'm retired and now I gave up. It's just too difficult.
One of the last governments that made it too differ
with me to be in business. I gave it up
in the end.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
But but you know what I mean, you know, you
know know what I'm saying. Jack.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
It seems like in your in your world, it would
make sense that you go, it's not let's have a
talky bit. We'll sit around and you can talk about
we'll read your CV, but let's go out into the
out on the floor and see what you can actually do.

Speaker 12 (55:37):
That's that's right.

Speaker 6 (55:38):
You've got to give them a trial here and sometimes
some of the in the engineering world, it's quite sophisticated
because lots of different world you know, it's different parts
to it. They work the engine. There's lots of different bits,
and some people are good at some bits and some
people are good at others, and you work that out
and you can streamline them to that sort of work.
So you look through the work that they've done, and
I try to go from England. He was very very

(56:00):
good on farm machinery, but useless on everything else. So
you sort of how much farm machinery work do I do?

Speaker 13 (56:07):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 (56:07):
And how which value is this guy going to be
for me? Inc You're not going to really be beneficial
to me because you can't do this. He says, all,
you're going to give me three three months thing, And
I said, well, I'll give you three months right now.
There's the door out you go, and he says, I'll
take you to court. I just made I can't be bothered.
Let's go away. And I had one guy had me

(56:30):
on he's going to assume me and everything else. I said, look,
just I haven't got any time for this sort of stuff.
So what I did in the end, and I'd laid
one guy off, I just kept on throwing throwing the
letters from the rubbish, and I just couldn't be bothered
with it, and they tried to take me to court
and I just didn't play the game. Honestly, I couldn't
play the game, which just skipt on threaten of the bin.
They said I was too difficult to deal with. They's

(56:52):
top bothering me because I really said, I look, I
wanted somebody that said the CV was a lie. I
had sex good guys working for me, and I wanted
eight and I couldn't find two more.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Yeah, that's that's rough, Jack. Sorry, we got to go
to the break. But you know what I'm saying, though,
you know, there's the there's you know, maybe it's not.
You don't even need three months for most jobs. You
get someone in for a day and the rubble would
hit the road where they can do what they said
they're going to do.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Definitely, particularly an engineering firm say all right, there's the machine,
go for gold.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I was like Jack saying that if it's a very
you know, there's a there's a lot to it, you know, Yeah, yeah,
a lot lot of different disciplines.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yep, absolutely, thank you very much.

Speaker 7 (57:33):
Jack.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Got to take a break, but back with more of
your call shortly, oh eight hundred eighty ten eighties.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
The number to call.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. On News Talk vs.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Twenty nine past two, we're talking about CV embellishment, Tony.
You've got an employer's perspective on this.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Oh you godae mate, and what's your take on it
as an employer?

Speaker 13 (58:02):
So Justina, Yeah, I was you on the CVS and
you know we employed that forty forty stuff. We don't
advertise really off, but I've been doing one or two
lately because I've had a couple of guys retire and
the big things we ask for on a CV for
three previous employers, their phone numbers. We don't really care

(58:23):
about a reference. We try to make it some it's
not three people I've worked for and just maybe how
long they've worked somewhere, like when they see in the CV,
that's about all I look at. I don't take too
much notice of what they're say they do or because
everyone's a good team good team person. Yeah, they're all

(58:46):
fairly matched the same And the main thing for me
is if I don't get those people, they just go
on the bin. We might get twenty or thirty cvs.
So my big thing is anyone's listening. You really want
to put in there what people are asking.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Yeah, and so just growing back to the referees, do
you ring them or you don't even ring? You just
got to make sure that you've got your three referees
there with numbers, and that for you is enough that
they you at least start to give them a shot.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Hi, one hundred ring though no you yeah?

Speaker 13 (59:19):
Yeah, And if I can't get them unfortunately, I do
have to flip those cbs as well.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
What about that catch twenty two?

Speaker 3 (59:27):
What about that catch sorry, Tony, what about that catch
twenty two situation where you've just finished training?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
You're good, but you need to get your first job?

Speaker 3 (59:35):
If you know what I'm saying, Like, how do you
how do you get into your first job if you
need three referees before you can start.

Speaker 13 (59:42):
They might have teachers. That doesn't necessarily someone that've worked
for most, right people, I would have thought they would
have done something or like, we like local people, so
they might know someone who we know for Yeah, that's
tracking for the young ones. And to be sure we
like the young ones. We've got about we've probably got

(01:00:04):
half a dozen guys under twenty five even more probably
about that actually, so we like getting to them, but
we just got to persevere with the young.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
Yeah, we do you like them?

Speaker 13 (01:00:18):
And I've got about seven questions, So I asked those
employees then't eb eight dollops them and if anyone gets
to know, it's yeah, that's the end of it as well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Can you give us those can you give us those
key questions?

Speaker 13 (01:00:34):
You can ask you that. One of them is don't
not any sort of order? How they get on with
people like that they work with and whoever's employer was,
or probably school teacher, someone that they've given me, who's
a friend or whatever. And one of th questions is

(01:00:58):
what's the attitude? Will tell the safety? Do they say
it's strap or you know, do they just to say yep,
we go and.

Speaker 12 (01:01:07):
It's all gird.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Oh we got Yeah, just lost Tony.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
We lost Tony before people got their questions to bone
up on.

Speaker 14 (01:01:15):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Sounds like you're a good employer, though, Tony. Hey, here's
a good text, guys. Richard Branson says, if somebody offers
you an amazing opportunity but you are not sure if
you can do it, say yes, then learn how to
do it later.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
See, that was what I was saying. That's what I
did around this particular editing software. It's a bit different
than this text here. I worked at an international airline,
was involved in the simulator and training phase, flying passengers
with a couple of guys who were clearly fraudulent in
their claims of experience.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
They would fired. I mean, yeah, there's levels.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
There's one thing when you sort of slightly embellish things
as opposed to anything to do with flying people or
putting people's lives at riskin very different. So this text is, so,
which is it Matt okay to lie to benefit your
family or because the employee will benefit You're putting a
lot of energies into justifying your big fat Porky's says
the sext there. Yeah, looking back now, and I actually

(01:02:07):
think that maybe generally speaking, it's best to be as
honest as you possibly can. Yeah, generally speaking, and as
you wrote in your generally yeah, just be honest. Come on,
as you wrote in your book, it makes things complicated, right,
and just add stress. Even white lies sometimes. Yeah, yeah,
that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
All right, all right, good discussion, Thank you very I
think we can.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
All agree with this guy that said that he had
a doctorate from Yale, you know, even though it was
just in a speech, not a CV mate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Don't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
That's silly. That is very sad as an absolute muppet show.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Yeah, right, headlines with Raylen coming up. Then we want
to have a chat about NCEA. Is there a problem
with that? If you're a student, if you're a parent,
if you're a teacher. Love to get into this one.
I Waite hundred eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Honesty is always the best policy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Nicely said.

Speaker 10 (01:02:54):
You talk headlines with blue bubble taxis it's no trouble
with a blue bubble. A group of skiers were rescued
on Mantepe who after an avalanche buried two people, one
who had only their hand proto from the snow. STATSN
said figures show annual inflations reach two point seven percent.
That's up from two point five to March. The heralds

(01:03:17):
Liam Dan says people will notice inflation's cooling as they
book services like a plumber, but power bills and groceries
are still high. Auckland Council's head is looking into the
mayor's chief of Staff's property company going into liquidation owing
in land revenue more than half a million dollars. No
Leming says it will vigorously defend itself against Commerce Commission

(01:03:41):
charges laid over its price promise promotion, which the Commission
calls misleading because of its limitations and conditions. Worker First
Union says its rate of ide and industry leading two
year pay deal for kmart workers. It matches the living
wage and will rise when it increases next year. Is

(01:04:01):
Flying business Class worth it? An experts guide on how
to make the most of it. You can see the
story at it and said Herald Premium back to matt
Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Oh, thank you very much, Raileen, turn your mi con
Tyler right. This is going to be a good discussion NCEA.
There are questions being raised about n CEA at the
highest levels. Erica Stanford has been given advice around the
implementation of that system and whether it's working as well
as it should. Among the red light alerts. This was

(01:04:34):
in a document obtained by The Herald. Was that flexibility
built into the system included regarding what assessment students that
mean mean courses can be structured around those perceived to
be easier to accumulate credits, and that has long been
one of the criticisms of NZA. They call it credit farming,
that they can utilize what might be considered uneducational things

(01:04:59):
like picking up rubbish, and they can acquire credits to
get them over the line.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Right yeah, I mean whatever, It's complicated, Incaa, I've got kids.
I've got one kid doing it now, and I've had
a kid that's gone through it. I've never really fully
understood what was going on with the system. I just
want as a parent, I just want to know how
well they're doing so a percentage, and I don't want
them going because I always talk to them they're going
to exams and one of them might go, yeah, well

(01:05:23):
I've got this and this and this, so i don't
need to get much in the exam. And I'm like, well,
that doesn't seem right to me.

Speaker 7 (01:05:29):
Am.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
I just looking at it. When I was at school,
that was just the exam, right I think. No. I
know we had internal assessment in year twelve, but I
don't know. What do you want as a parent and
what do you want as a students? That's what I
want to know. One hundred and eighty ten eighty. If
we're going to it says there's a Cambridge system. The
NCAA system, Right. The NCAA system seems incredibly complex to me,

(01:05:50):
and it feels like you can hide amongst it and
it and it feels like there's a hell of a
lot of work for teachers in it. There's a lot
of internal assessment. My gut feeling is just exams at
the end of the year and then you just get
a percentage and that sums it up. It's very clean.
You find out that you useless at math, and that's
interesting knowledge to know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Yeah, and that was an easy way to determine whether
you needed some more help as it. You know, my
parents saw in year eleven, fifth form at the time
that I was terrible at math because I got about
thirty percent of my final examination. So at that point
they came into the mold. They could see quite clearly
Tyler is terrible at maths and started getting me a tutor.
But for everything else I kind of just got over
the mark. But still my old man knew when he said, Tyler,

(01:06:32):
you're better than fifty five percent in English.

Speaker 14 (01:06:34):
You know that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
But that was a clear cut So instead of this achieved,
and achieve sounds good that you've achieved something, but that
is the bare minimum. Then you've got merit. What is merit?

Speaker 13 (01:06:43):
Me?

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
And when I say to my one of my kids
said he got a merit on something, and I said,
well that's good, he goes, no, Merrit's not very good.
They've lowered the bar, so merit isn't really anything. Yeah,
and you're like, well, I don't know, just give me
a percentage. What was your percentage? I don't know what
my percentage was.

Speaker 14 (01:06:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I mean part of me looking at the system thinks
that it was designed to keep self esteem of the
children in mind, right, that if you're not achieving that
well and you get an achievement there, the ideology there
is that you're not telling the kid that they're failing.
You're not telling the child that they're not doing well.
They've achieved. They can just do a bit better and
get some merit. But I wonder how good that is

(01:07:18):
for a child, surely, even children.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
You want the raw, cold hard data. We've just been
talking about the truth, and that's what you want, right.
You want to know that if you are useless at something,
that you're currently useless at it. You don't want You
don't want it to be given to you softly, do you?
And I don't think parents want that either. Yeah, I
mean we're talking about parents I know that put their
report cards through chet GPT just to understand what it's

(01:07:42):
trying to actually say to them. Yeah, And meanwhile, teachers
are spending ages and ages on this. Don't you just
want the teachers to teach to the curriculum and then
you're examined from the outside and you get the results.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Yeah. Oh, eight, one hundred eighty ten eighty is the
number to call.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
But is that the system you want for your kids?
And if you have recently been through the system, or
you've been through NCAA or you've been through Cambridge, love
to hear from teachers as well, what are we want
from the system because a lot of people don't seem
to be happy with the current system.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Yeah, and obviously it got changed at the time from
the Cambridge system. So can you hear your thoughts? What
does the perfect system look like at the secondary call
our school system level? I should say it is eighteen
to three, the phones of a letter, the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Issues that affect you and a bit of fun along
the way Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons news talks
that'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Supporter to three. Is NCEEA working and if it's not working,
what is the perfect system to assess those in secondary school?
And your thoughts on this?

Speaker 7 (01:08:47):
How you guys?

Speaker 17 (01:08:48):
My thoughts are that too many parents and employers don't
actually understand NCA, and that's that's a big you know,
people talk about being able to pick up credits for
doing very little. It stems back to enter school certificate.

(01:09:10):
Fifty percent of us were branded as failures at the
first academic hurdle and that's no good for anyone. And
we can all tell tales about people who have made
millions and millions of dollars and pale school. See, so
it wasn't a great system. We then the you know,
if you're looking for quality candidate, look to set. They've

(01:09:32):
got university entrants. And if I've done those subjects and
pass them, including sitting external exams that have passed all
on internals, then they've got their level toes or their
level trees, but they aren't necessarily university firefight.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Can I just it's interesting you say that so in
school shirt if you weren't fifty percent, then you weren't
fifty percent. So maybe it's not great to hear that.
But but isn't that Isn't that information that you need
to know? So if you if you're seeing so let's
take that. Yeah, so let's se you can only be
within the world, right, So fifty percent only means how

(01:10:14):
you sit between everyone else and you you maybe that's
how you you set the course.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
But do you see what I'm saying? Don't you need
to know if you're no good at a subject?

Speaker 17 (01:10:25):
Yeah, but I mean that you come to the end
of that year and your brand of a failure and
there are no more for you if you if you
can't pass, you see that you can't go on it.

Speaker 14 (01:10:34):
But if you're you're lead forward nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
But you're a failure if you are a failure, So
don't you need to know that you're a failure?

Speaker 17 (01:10:42):
But how many people who have failed to sor fee
have gone on to do go very well in life?
So it was an a you're a measure of someone's.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
Wear, Well, it is a measure. So if your massage
around the edges, and I guess this is the complaint
when you massage the system such that everyone feels like
they are doing okay, then you don't have a realistic
information on the decisions you should make life. So if

(01:11:09):
you're if you're terrible at if you're terrible at math,
then either you know, deploy the resources so you get
better at it, or focus your energies in another area.

Speaker 17 (01:11:21):
Oh, you'll know if you are.

Speaker 13 (01:11:23):
But it's it's more the people.

Speaker 17 (01:11:24):
It's more the parents than the employers. Now have they
got there twelve numerous the credits you know, and you
can actually get your numeracy and your literacy credits than
other subjects they are it's not necessarily math. Yeah, but
you need to get those level of credits in order
to pass your A year.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Is this so you can?

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
You can.

Speaker 17 (01:11:48):
Credits and science?

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
So do you have Do you think the NCAA system
as it is is going well or are there any
changes that you would make to it?

Speaker 17 (01:11:58):
What the say? I had three kids go through The
oldest didn't get any university entrance subjects, but past everything
but really with me at school read as much. Now
runs a very successful business employing quite a few guys,
doing really really.

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Well because he took these value being educated.

Speaker 17 (01:12:18):
The next one's got an honors degree and you know,
and he worked really really hard all the way through,
but he's not making as much as the old one.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
MM.

Speaker 18 (01:12:31):
I don't think how education system is particularly great.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
So in that regard, would you say that everyone then
should be awarded school certificate? Not that we have that anymore?

Speaker 7 (01:12:44):
Is that with that?

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
I was done level one yep.

Speaker 17 (01:12:48):
I think my captain probably past that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Yeah, But just going back to the old system, ndy,
and look, I was terrible mess and I failed school
sert mass in the fifth form and was threatened to
go into what they called the accelerate class at the time.
But that enabled me to get some support around me
to actually achieve in the sixth formers. So, because you know,
it was pretty clear that I had thirty percent of

(01:13:12):
mess in the fifth form, that gave me a boot
up the bum to start actually achieving and getting that
support needed.

Speaker 19 (01:13:20):
Yep.

Speaker 17 (01:13:21):
That said your school should be doing that. They should
be they should be seeing that you needed that wrap
around support and that subject awsome remedial training and that's
what you that's what.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
They're paid for.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
So with n c A.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
So, so I just asked you before what you change?
So you get rid of level one. What else don't
you like about.

Speaker 5 (01:13:42):
N c A.

Speaker 17 (01:13:44):
I would tend to narrow it up a little bit more.
They so the kids do things called credit mining, and
they will look and they will say, Okay, here's an internal.
It's going to take me sixty hours and I get
four credits for it. But here's another one and I
get six credits and it's only going to take me

(01:14:05):
forty hours. And they will do that and ternel over
the other one.

Speaker 13 (01:14:09):
Yeah, let's work quiet.

Speaker 17 (01:14:11):
But then when they get to UNI, they find they
really needed that other paper and they hadn't done it.
Yeah right, that they weren't taught well enough, but it
was it was their mining credits.

Speaker 5 (01:14:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
So and and I think that's the problem that everyone has,
as it's so complicated, and you you find it very
hard as a parent anyway, I find it quite hard
to find out exactly where the child is at.

Speaker 7 (01:14:37):
And so you just.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
But but you know they're running a campaign against you
as well. And then you go and then you go
and meet the teachers, and then and then the kids
run the parent teacher interviews. Now, so the teacher that
they get their laptop out and it's I'm like, this
is this is this just a whitewash?

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
What's going on here? I just want to know?

Speaker 3 (01:14:59):
And that's why I quite like just I'm sure no
system is going to be perfect, but it seems to
me as a parent, if I could just find out
exactly where they sit. And I was saying before, Andy,
one of my kids got a merit on a paper
and I was like, that's good, and he was like, no,
a Merit's bad.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
I was like, so, how can it be called merit
if it's not great? And he goes, oh, Merrit's more
like a C in your in your day and age.
And I'm like, what, I don't get it.

Speaker 13 (01:15:24):
A merits from sixty five to eighty ten, sixty.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
Five to eighty is huge, but you know what I mean,
sixty five to eighty it's like sixty five is very
different from eighty.

Speaker 17 (01:15:34):
Yeah, well that's that range. But it depends on the
expectations of your kids. Maybe if if they got a
merit were disappointed with it, then they're an excellent student
and I wouldn't be too concerned about them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Yeah, that's a good point, Andy, Thanks for your call. Yeah,
great call. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is
the number to call. We're going to play some messages
and come back with that. But very interesting. I mean
Andy's been on a school board and clearly there are
some elements there that are incredibly confusing that needs to
be tight and up. But keen to hear your views.
Nine two nine TiO is a text number as well.
We'll get to feel those short leaders to three, the

(01:16:10):
issues that affect.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
You, and a bit of fun along the way. Matt
Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons news talks'd be afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
It is five to three this Texas.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Scott says, how, hey, what about using the Cambridge system? Yeah,
that's really what we're discussing here is so how far
away from NCAA towards Cambridge you wanted to be? Is
Cambridge system perfect?

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Or as?

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
What would you like to see change in the NCAA?
Is this something in the middle between the two?

Speaker 18 (01:16:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
Oh, one hundred and eighteen eighties and number to call. Julie,
welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
You've got three kids at UNI.

Speaker 19 (01:16:42):
I have and so obviously it all went through the
NCAA system at two different schools and my oldest son
I'd say, we had to his school. I felt I
had to be a lot more onto it, a lot
more sort of what was going on. How many credits
did he have or was he going to pass to
the point that even year thirteen, he had handed everything

(01:17:05):
in said it was completely is exam. Just had gone
up the school to kind of put Olio and the
art teacher lot at his everything and said you don't
have three the three three of the writing credits, you
won't get your ui. And that was basically he had two.

Speaker 7 (01:17:25):
Days and everything was going to close wow for the.

Speaker 19 (01:17:28):
End of the year.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
So he managed to do that.

Speaker 19 (01:17:31):
He got us into and he got yui. But that
was the year going back off probably about five or
six years by only thirty thirty percent of the whole
nation children got the yui.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
So, Julie, sorry, we've got some poor time management here,
and we actually have to go to the news. But
can we can we get back after the news to
finish this chat?

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Okay, yeah, yeah, awesome, Sorry, sorry about that, You're great.
Tyler's fault entirely my fault on the on the time
master here and that was poor time keeping. But Julie,
we've got plenty of questions.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
Called Tyler the time Lord that I might take that
away from after this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Back Oh inner, back right, new sport of weather coming up.
Then we're going to go back to Julian and we
want to hear from you. Oh eight hundred eighty ten
eighty is the number car.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Talking with you all afternoon. It's Matt Heathan Taylor Adams
Afternoons used talk.

Speaker 6 (01:18:20):
Zid be good a to you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
Welcome back into the show. Six past three and we're
having a great discussion about NCEEA. There are questions being
raised to the upper inchelons about whether that is the
right system for our secondary school students.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
So the other option is Cambridge. Do you want it
to be exactly Cambridge? Or is this some changes that
can be made to NCA to make it better. What's
the perfect system you'd like to see now, Tyler? Yes,
speaking of being able to see, can you see a clock?

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Yep, I've got seven in the studio as we speak.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Because your lack of following the time and the last
down I mean that we had to rudely cut off Julie.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
So Julie, thank you very much for hanging on and
so sorry for wasting seven minutes of your time.

Speaker 3 (01:19:02):
So just to just recap your three you've got three
kids at university, so you're talking about your experience of
NCA and so.

Speaker 5 (01:19:08):
It's very different.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:19:10):
So what I really just wanted to say was I
think that how the school's manage it can be incredibly different.
My daughter school, on the other hand, just so so different,
very onto.

Speaker 15 (01:19:22):
It very about.

Speaker 5 (01:19:24):
What they did was they managed each child individually tone
as a large school. She got to year eleven and
they called me, called us an apparent interview, and they
just said that she's doing really, really well, but she's
actually struggling with mad We believe we've got a class
set up. So what they did was if they thought

(01:19:45):
any students were struggling with this particular subject, they would
call talk to the parents. They would say that we
can set up this class. It's a smaller class. What
we do is we take out on one of the
sort of credits for the year that might have been
what she was she was struggling with the couples side
of it.

Speaker 19 (01:20:00):
We take that out.

Speaker 5 (01:20:01):
She can have an extra week on everything else in
that mass curriculum. I think it was a set or
not one being to be maths sorry, and so she
gets alonger with each So then ideally her marks actually higher,
which they were across the board, because she's more confident
because she's not failing or she's not just getting a shaved.

Speaker 19 (01:20:21):
So they did that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:22):
Apparently were just with every subject that they had as
a student.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
It was like a very focused school, a good school.

Speaker 5 (01:20:29):
They just didn't want They had a very good path rate,
but they had a pass rate. Her high path rate
in the lower that the students that started there in
lower they had one of the highest pass row. They
didn't not fit them, and they didn't tell them. They
wouldn't undersit just because they thought they might fail. They
actually help them.

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
Yeah, right now, Julie, do you think that your children,
you know, say, this daughter that we're talking about right
now has an.

Speaker 5 (01:20:56):
Accurate I'd love to hear them on here.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Do you think she is getting and you're getting or
got accurate information at where she actually sat.

Speaker 5 (01:21:08):
In terms of yes, very much so, I think. And
they did that for all the students I know, some
of her friends. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
The she some of her friends the same situation a
different subject, and so they would so they might have
had been in that class story and then maybe even
two or three features because they possibly had some the

(01:21:29):
techarades and there with them, and so when knew exactly
what was happening, and the way it was handled was
very respectfully. So it was not telling her that she
couldn't pass. I was telling her that she would actually
get a better That was maybe something that she wasn't
interested in talk to her about it. She had to
say in the decision, but ultimately it was the better.

Speaker 12 (01:21:52):
So how do you think does that makes sense?

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
So how do you think she would have gone or
the other students would have gone if they'd been in
the system where it's just at the end of the
year there's an exam and that's your year. What percent
did you get?

Speaker 5 (01:22:03):
I think she would have struggled with the mats and
she wouldn't have liked it. And I think that is
the big thing, because she would have helped that that
even just that one part the calculus, it would have
made her It sort of taints everything else because it
sort of that I'm not good at maths, where she
was just not good it, well not not even not
good it, but she was just found that part harder

(01:22:27):
some of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
The opposition I hear, Julie is the interpretation that's open
to some teachers and individual schools. And from what we're
hearing from you, clearly this school was very competent in
how they interpreted it and how they helped their students
and your daughter through. But do you think that's part
of the problem, that there's too much flexibility there for
different schools.

Speaker 5 (01:22:46):
Yes, And I think some of the problems also, as
I think somebody were saying before, just this whole idea,
is that maybe we're just making it seem like everyone
has to pass and we're dumbing it down a weaver
it and maybe you've got to have the real conversations
and the schools. And I know that the school doesn't
run that for the many more that I'm talking about,

(01:23:08):
because they I think they've had some complaints about the
effect of their stream and some parents didn't like streaming,
so they've changed the system that lost very very well,
and they don't do that in what to my knowledge.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
Yeah, the whole getting bit of streaming thing confuses me
because that, you know, and another complaint that you sort
of get about this is that whilst trying to make
it less painful for people that aren't doing so well.
You fail to celebrate the excellence of the students that
are really, really good. And that's a problem because there's

(01:23:46):
a country we need, we need more excellent people and
we and and I guess people would complain that when
you move the the goalpost around to sort of massage
people through the passing, then it sort of takes away
the competitive situation that leads to just exemplary students.

Speaker 5 (01:24:07):
But is it that or is it actually some people
some I didn't just take away but longer to mature
and sometimes take away bit longer to work it out.
So if you have a system that's heared so to
manage that, then you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Can see a lot get the best out of every student.

Speaker 5 (01:24:23):
Maybe, yeah, absolutely, but it's just taking away more time
in managing or working for the individuals.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
Yeah, I think if you called Julie, yeah, great call.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
Qologies again for Tyler's poor men.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
I'm going to hang of the clock. Hey watch this,
I'm going to nail it right now. It's thirty past three.
We're taking more of your calls very shortly. I know
one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
Including this text around the crippling problem with school SERT back.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
In the day you still ZIBB sixteen past three.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
We're just asking the question, what is the ultimate system?
People are saying that NCAA isn't the way, and maybe
Cambridge system's too far the other way. What's your ultimate
system for your kids at high school? The sex says
the problem with school SIRT was that only fifty percent
were allowed to pass. Therefore, if ninety percent scored more
than fifty sent the forty percent above there allowed were

(01:25:11):
failed even though they had scored a pass. That was
called scaling. So I did school SERT and I remember
a lot of pressure because you couldn't go on to
the next year unles you passed, Yeah, and it was
it was just exams at the end of the year.
And I thought that I could understand that, and it
put a lot of pressure on and it made me
step up and actually concentrate because I didn't want to

(01:25:33):
be held back another year, Definitely. I didn't want to
be held back. Yeah, So the threat was real, the
risks were real. Yeah, And isn't that a representation of
the real world? And isn't school getting you ready for
the risk and reward of the real world.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
That was my thinking when I got threatened to be
put in the accelerant class, which is the class you
get put into if you need to do better in
a subject. Because I flunked Mass. That made me get
my A into G So I mean they let me
carry on because I did okay and some of the
other subjects, but Mass. I had to go in front
of the principal with mum and he said, You're going
to have to go into the accelerant class unless you

(01:26:08):
can step up, and thankfully I did the next.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
And would you have you didn't want to go into
that class because what you would have felt shame?

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
Yep, one hundred Yeah, it was. That was a hard
thing in secondary school. There was a different name for it.
I can't say that on air, but we all remember
those classes and what it was an all boys school
and of course, yeah, the fellas that were in that
class kept it very quiet because there was shame involved.

Speaker 3 (01:26:29):
Yes, so maybe those days are too extreme, but really
I guess what I'm saying, maybe there's somewhere between Cambridge
and NCIA and maybe that's what the government's looking for.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
Matt.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
You are suggesting that people who are great at passing
exams are the best and smartest. Those days are gone. Yeah,
but NCAA seems to be too far the other way
I would say, I mean, if you study your subject
and you know it, then you can pass the exam exactly,

(01:27:00):
you can. So it's not that you're the brightest, but
you've got a definite time and a place that you
have to know the subject, and that's the exam. It's
not doing a little bit here, doing some papers here,
moving things around the classes there and there, and massaging
your way through. So maybe there's something. There's somewhere in

(01:27:21):
the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
It's retention and knowledge across the year. Afternoon NCAA.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
As a joke, my example, my son and best friend
at different high schools in Auckland did the same subjects.
They would compare results in what one school considered an
excellence would only be an achieved at the other. No
consistency at all. And yeah, that's a problem with it
not being outside the school, being done within the school,
I think could be a bit of a problem rather
being external examine and examinations.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
Grant your thoughts on this.

Speaker 18 (01:27:48):
Yeah, hi guys, second time you are calling into talk
back radio. So you've touched the nerve.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
With me on this topic, Well, come in.

Speaker 18 (01:27:56):
For I'm an engineer for my SINS. I spent six
years lecturing and engineering it at probably what you call
a second tier university, and I rocked in the class
and what I discovered was that the students basically couldn't
do mass and this concerned me. I would give them

(01:28:17):
what I would consider to be a year simple year
ten mass test, six questions in ten minutes, and two
thirds of the class couldn't do it, and I was astounded.
We held on file their school transcripts, so I went
and looked up the transcripts of the students that couldn't
do the test, and what I discovered was that the schools,

(01:28:42):
and it wasn't the top schools that were doing this.
There was schools that you would regard as being not
top schools. They would not have let the students sit
external papers. So to simplified, if mass is divided into multiplication, division, addition,

(01:29:02):
and subtraction, the students would only have done the addition
of subtraction papers, which were internal and they'd pass those,
and they wouldn't even have attempted the balance of the
course and the schools are really doing a terrible disservice
to these students. And with those internal papers, they would

(01:29:22):
also give them what they call a mock test, which
was basically the same test with the numbers slightly different,
so that they could practice exactly what they were going
to get. And the end result was you had students
turning up to do engineering that couldn't do math.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
Yeah, so that doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help the
student because they don't have the truth, and it doesn't
help you teach them to move forward to learn to
do something they need math for. So yeah, sort of
massage in the truth. I guess that's what I've been
trying to say is massage in the truth doesn't help anyone.
You need to know what you can do so you

(01:30:00):
can make decisions about your life and where to put
your energies.

Speaker 4 (01:30:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (01:30:05):
So I'm of an age that I did school see
you an bursary, and I did very well at that system.
I went onto university and got an honest degree in
engineering and in a postgraduate degree, and so that system
worked very well for me. My son went through NCAA.
I think NCAA is a really good system. You need
to understand how the achieved merit and excellence works, and

(01:30:29):
obviously I'm focused on the STEM subjects, but it needs
some tweaking to stop the gaming of the system.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
Is there any way that it could be complete?

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
Do you think the fact that it's the schools have
that power that you're talking about internally, which you know
they may have motivations around their own personal numbers to
massage things. Do you think there's a way it could
all be externally? You know all the grading has done
externally well.

Speaker 18 (01:30:57):
It wasn't out in my day, so I think that
would be that would be something. Do feel slightly sorry
for those schools because they get beaten up in the
media about their results, right, so they have found a
way to put on their website their pass rates for
the various level of levels of NCAA. But when you
drilled down into it, it's it's not a very pretty site.

(01:31:20):
The sad thing is that those kids that failed the
engineering or sorry, failed that little test I gave them
should never have been doing engineering exactly university they.

Speaker 13 (01:31:31):
Would have made.

Speaker 18 (01:31:32):
They would have made the best plumbers and builders and
electricians exactly who we're now importing those people from overseas.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
Yeah, exactly, because they haven't been given the information they
need to make the decisions about their life. And you know,
so many people you were going to, so many people
that text through that said that they failed school. Certain
that made them make decisions in their life to lead
us anyway. So what would be the basic changes you
would make Grant.

Speaker 18 (01:32:00):
Around Yeah, external assessment that you have to do all
the units and you have to tempt allar units. So
the other the gaming that goes on at the top schools,
one of which my son went to, is that the
top students have stood going really well and I've got
an excellent average, and they go into the exam at
the end of the year to sit your external standard

(01:32:21):
and they pick up, say the calculus paper, and they
look at it and it's very difficult, and they think
it's going to be a challenge. They're instructed by the
school to screw it up and throw it in the
pin and walk out of the exam because it will
drag their average down. So I think that that really
needs to be.

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
The head What about what about you go Grant?

Speaker 18 (01:32:44):
Sorry, Yeah, the basic structure of it. I was a
bit wary of it until my son came home with
sort of a mess thing and pointed to the excellence
question and I had to go away and research it
before I could figure out how to do it. So
I think the basic structure is fine. There just needs
to be more those tweaks and more understanding of how
it's all put together.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
Do you think that's some advantage in getting rid of
excellence and merit and these wide I know, you know
there was more divisions of A plus as the more divisions,
because what if you're rocking along and you're at the
high end of merit and you're and if there's a
fifteen point range in it, then you don't know how

(01:33:27):
you know what I mean, You're not getting the reward
you are for being close to excellence. You're one percent
off excellence because because the you just get us merit.

Speaker 18 (01:33:37):
Yeah, there's some merit in that for some students. Equally,
if you take the mess paper, which is what I
was sort of focused on, it's very clear when you
open up the paper that this question and this question
are the achieved questions, and if you're not very good
at MASS, you can identify those questions and examine focus
on those A question and at least walk out with

(01:33:59):
and achieved, and then the merrit questions are very easily identifiable,
and then the excellence questions are identifiable. So within the paper, right,
if you're not very good at mass and focus on
the two questions in the paper and try and pass those.

Speaker 10 (01:34:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
But then this all seems quite cruel. For you're talking
about engineering school at varsity and then medical school, and
I've got questions about how they figure out who are
going to be the top achievers and get through medical school.
But that seems to be the point where these kids
get a rude awakening, is that they're passed in CEA
through gaming the system. Then they get into varsity and realize, shit,

(01:34:35):
I you know, I do not have the skills to
move any further. And that would be a real blow
for a lot of these kids.

Speaker 18 (01:34:42):
Yeah, I mean, how long have you got I said,
I was lectured at a second tier university. I got
my PhD from a first tier university. The students, basically,
if they could tick the box to say the university
will get some money from the government for the course,
they let them in. Yeah, and it's a bums on

(01:35:06):
seat funding model, and that's what's that's where the universities
are to blame.

Speaker 3 (01:35:10):
Yeah, that's that's that's a problem as well. This teacher says,
I'm a math teacher. This teacher says, this text to
says I'm a math teacher. And the previous call is
completely incorrect. It is not the school's decision whether a
student sits the externals. It is up to the student.
A school teacher, to the best of their abilities, cannot
make a student go to an external We do our best.
He has no idea about how it works. Okay, right, guys,

(01:35:31):
the guys correct. My daughter was told she couldn't sit
the maths exam because she needed more help and they
didn't want their numbers not passing to show up. So
we're getting some contradictory messages here.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Certainly it is twenty six to three bag visually.

Speaker 1 (01:35:47):
Matt Heathan Tyler Adams afternoons call oh, eight hundred eighty
ten eighty on used talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
Twenty nine past three. So many texts on this one.

Speaker 7 (01:35:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:56):
Unsurprisingly, we haven't solved the NCAA situation and our hour
on talkback radio, but we've given a good, good go.
People have been able to have voiced their opinion. So
let's with some texts here. NCAA should be bind and
we should adopt Cambridge. I have taught both, no comparison.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (01:36:16):
This teaches, this text says I teach a diploma course.
And the difference and knowledge of NCAA and students who
have had school set or more focus exams as chalk
and cheese. They don't even really know how to time manage,
let alone access of computer or even spell properly. Don't
even know how to put commas and paragraphs that take
them back to the basics. Blah blah blah. Yeah, I

(01:36:38):
get what you're saying here, but ironically, there's a lot
of errors in your text message.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
Too many commas in that one.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
I'm not blaming you. I'm sure it's spell check or something.
As an employer, I need to know the capabilities otherwise
I end up with the problem, and we have having
to deal with more and more. Let's have some honesty
for all parties and lean into helping and directing people
to help themselves. Sometimes parents also need to take responsibility
to help their kids thrive. It can't always be other

(01:37:05):
people's issue to deal with. Oh my god, sixty five
to eighty percent waters going on. Yeah, good text My
daughter was told not to sit English exam because she's
already had literacy.

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
And there's hundreds and hundreds of others and so.

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
We've got teachers saying that they don't do that, and
then lots of parents saying that that's what's happened.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Yeah, So the debate will carry on and we'll see
what Minister Stanford has to say about NCAA going forward.
But thank you to everybody who called and text on
that right, looking forward to this discussion.

Speaker 3 (01:37:32):
It's what everyone's been talking about. Yes, like the CEO
and the HR lady being caught at the Coldplay concert.
But our question is what's the price for cheating? What
is the price? What should the penalty be for being
caught cheating? Personally, I find the whole thing pretty funny

(01:37:54):
and amusing, but I wouldn't care if my CEO was
caught cheating with the HR person. I wouldn't think they'd
need to step down. I mean, the punishment is within
your family, right.

Speaker 2 (01:38:06):
Yeah, Oh, eight hundred is the number to call. This
is going to be a great discussion. You would have
seen this story over the weekend. It is the biggest
thing in the world right now, Andy Byron, the chief
executive and his HR head of HR, what should be
the punishment for that little warfare?

Speaker 3 (01:38:22):
And before you text in with nine two nine two,
why are you guys talking about this?

Speaker 13 (01:38:27):
Is?

Speaker 3 (01:38:27):
They're not more important using the world than an a
fear between a CEO and an AhR lady on the
other side of the planet. Let's be honest, everyone's talking
about it exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
One hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Headlines with Raylene coming up.

Speaker 10 (01:38:44):
Jew's talks'd be headlines with blue bubble taxis It's no
trouble with a blue bubble. The Commerce Commissions found no
evidence of cartel behavior affecting lending to farmers from our
Bank's involvement in the un organized Net zero Banking Alliance,
which aims to support climate mitigation. Two skiers were briefly

(01:39:05):
buried in an avalanche on Mantrupe Who on Friday, but
they were quickly freed by other members of their group
of six. Noel Leming has complained about inconsistent consumer protections
from overseas traders, while denying charges from the Commerce Commission
over its price promise promotion at a need and woman

(01:39:25):
is due in court next month, charged with driving a
car full of children on an after school carpool on
Friday with an alcohol reading nearly four times the legal limit.
A twenty five year old real estate agent has been
arrested at Auckland Airport accused of importing four kilos of
cocaine into suitcases. Yesterday, a Wellington worker has been sentenced

(01:39:48):
to three and a half years in prison for stealing
more than a million dollars from a charity families buying
transportable houses as alternatives to retirement villagers. You can read
more at Ens and Herald Premium. Now back to matt
Ethan Tyner Adams.

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
Thank you very much, railing right. It's the story that
everyone everyone around the world is talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:40:09):
It's interesting what stories catch on. This one has just
gone absolutely crazy, and I think it's primarily their reaction. Yep,
so the CEO and the head of HR or if
someone a lady that works in agr up on the
kisscam at a Coldplay concert camera comes on them, they
jump for cover like they've been shot at there on

(01:40:30):
the head there's a sniper. Chris Martin from Coldplay, A
great man says, either they're very shy or they're having
an affair. Yep, clearly having an affair because everything has
blown up and the CEO has stepped down from his position.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
Yep, resigned from his position. We don't know what's happening
to the head of HR at this stage, but as
we mentioned, this is a story that's gripped the entire world,
and the pylon and the humorous side of things, as
the Internet tends to do, has been significant over the
course of the weekend. But the question we've got for
you is what should be the punishment for being caught

(01:41:07):
having an affair a place like a Coldplay concert. Yeah,
I mean, has it got anything to do with your
employment at all? I would say no. I would say
absolutely no. The fact that I mean he resigned, but
arguably he was pushed to resign because the board got
so freaked out with the mass of publicity around the
world that this was causing for their company. But having

(01:41:30):
an affair is, you know, a personal side of your life,
and granted it is absolutely wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:41:39):
Just watching the footage again, it is poor old.

Speaker 2 (01:41:43):
Dere in the headlights in that freeze frame has been
seen so many times.

Speaker 3 (01:41:47):
Yeah, and the Phillies Mescot imitating it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:49):
I mean the memes.

Speaker 3 (01:41:50):
The memes have been great, and this is when the
Internet is at its best. Yea, as just how quickly
people crowdsourced the funniest things, as I was saying before
the one where they replaced the lady with Max for
stepping and the CEO worth Toto Wolf, and then cut
to George Russell crying for if one fans that I

(01:42:12):
found it very much.

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
There is very very clever people out there. But seen
watching this over the weekend. Matt and I have been
enjoying the content content like everybody else. But you see,
I mean everyone the whole entire world knows about this
now that and you're still enjoying it, and as you should,
because it's an enjoyable piece of content. But the guy

(01:42:37):
has had his life dismantled it by Bert.

Speaker 3 (01:42:40):
Yeah, I mean has Astronomer, which is the name of
Coming has committed to the values and culture that have
guided us since our founding. They said, our leaders are
expected to set the standard and both conduct and accountability.
The Border Directors has initiated a formal investigation to this
matter and we will have additional details to share very shortly.
That's what the company said. Yeah, so you know they're
committed to the values and culture that have guided us,

(01:43:03):
is it? I mean, ideally you don't cheat on your partner,
but I mean as any workplace in the world where
someone right now isn't cheating on their partner with someone
in the workplace, many they just happen to end up
on the internet. Yeah, just out of pure bad luck.

Speaker 2 (01:43:17):
And I think that's the big quition here is does
your workplace have any say when it comes to what
happens in your private life?

Speaker 3 (01:43:24):
Or what should the punishment be for straying from your
partner professionally. Let's be honest, guys. If a couple truly
love one another, then they will never cheat on each other.
Why would anyone spoil this magic? If someone cheats, then
there is some sort of breakdown of the relationship and
someone is doing something very wrong. That's from Mike, Yeah,
or just someone likes a bit on the side.

Speaker 2 (01:43:46):
Yeah. Oh, one hundred eight, ten and eighty is the
number to call. What should be the punishment for having
an affair? Should your place of employment have anything to
do with that? Love to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:43:55):
If you're cheating on your partner and your domestic relationship,
then there's every likely that you will cheat on your
work colleagues as well, and are therefore untrustworthy.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
Wow, I don't know about that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
Yeah, Hi guys, it wouldn't be funny. If he hurt himself,
the tide would turn. He's really had the whole world
criticize him. He's devastated while you're having fun and laughing, I.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
Matt Heath is not having fun. Oh, come on, if
you don't find that funny.

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
We always get this text on news talks. He'd be
for these people that are the absolute epitome of moral
like they.

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):
Would never laugh at anything like this. How dare you
laugh at it?

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
What about this? We always get these textas, who are
these people that are so much better than me?

Speaker 4 (01:44:40):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
I guarantee they are consuming this content as we all
are over the weekend. Oh wait, hundred eighty ten eighty
is the number to call? What should be the punishment
for cheating? And should your weekplas have anything to do
with it? Love to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (01:44:51):
It's twenty to four, Matt Heath Taylor Adams with you
as your afternoon rolls on Matt Heath and Taylor Adams
Afternoons news Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
The'd be seventeen to four.

Speaker 3 (01:45:02):
This Texas says no one, no one's business, but there
is how many people within the company knew and couldn't care.
Do what you like with whomever you like your business.
No one else is is that text to this Textic
disagrees and says the punishment for adultery should be death
by stoning old school let's go. That's from buzz. This
person says they should be tired and feathered and then
tase it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:23):
I'm sure that would be preferable. But what's happened to them?

Speaker 3 (01:45:26):
I reckon if they could choose that, they could choose
a tasering over the public shaming. Yeah, just even a
couple of wounders all the way down here in New
Zealand on one hundred and eighty, ten to eighty talking
about it, Sharon, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 5 (01:45:41):
Hi.

Speaker 11 (01:45:42):
Two things in this particular case. You know, he's been
intimate with or having an affair with somebody who reports
to him, and that adds a whole different kind of
layer of complexity to the workplace and his potential future
decision making and all of those sorts of things. So
I believe losing his job's probably been the right thing

(01:46:03):
on that basis, because how could the board trust him
to make balanced visions in the interests of the business
rather than himself on that basis. But the other thing
I wanted to say is, you know, I personally have
never been into it with the work, colleague. I've seen
thinking of people who have been, and it's usually the
woman who loses, right, Ultimately, it's her career who's compromised.

(01:46:25):
And it's really great.

Speaker 3 (01:46:26):
Really, I mean, well, I think it's generally the man
that loses these days.

Speaker 17 (01:46:32):
I mean, I know, a bit longer than the two.

Speaker 11 (01:46:35):
Maybe I'm going back too fast.

Speaker 3 (01:46:37):
Yeah, But when you say that they're on that she
reported to him, do you think that within an office relationship,
let's just say that neither of them have partners, would
it be okay then for you? Or do you think
that the power and balance is such that he shouldn't
be seeing her, whether she he's got a wife or not.

Speaker 11 (01:46:56):
Absolutely so, does that mean she's a power and balance?

Speaker 3 (01:47:01):
So should CEOs only be able to date CEOs at work?

Speaker 11 (01:47:07):
You know, it's not just about the two of them,
it's about everybody else who works in the company, So
it's for you know, So how other people view any
special relationship that may compromise their roles or their careers
or decisions that impacted them.

Speaker 2 (01:47:24):
What do you think about her being from HR?

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
Surely she has been in a situation before which she
said she's had to deal with this, so there's a
certain amount of hypocrisy she You would think, of all
people would be schooled up on the risks of going
to a cold place, play concert and cuddling up with
the CEO that's married.

Speaker 11 (01:47:44):
I'll be tactful and say that it would appear to
me that her judgment was flawed.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for your call.

Speaker 3 (01:47:51):
Sharing.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
Yeah, good call. Plenty of teas coming through on nine
two ninety two.

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
Well, I've seen some good memes online and how they
should have behaved. Yeah, there's one saying that he should
have immediately if he was smart, he would have immediately
pretend he was doing the Hemrich maneuver and then she
could have faked spat out a piece of food.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
That would have been quick thinking. If only, if only, Linda,
how are you this afternoon?

Speaker 11 (01:48:16):
I have to.

Speaker 5 (01:48:16):
Completely concur with Sharon. Everything she said was exactly what
I was about to say. But there's one other matter.
If he had stood his ground and smiled at the
camera and not reacted, no one would ever.

Speaker 2 (01:48:29):
Have none, Absolutely definitely, if he had had the courage.

Speaker 5 (01:48:33):
He obviously had the courage to have an affair outside
of his marriage. If he had, if he was genuinely courageous,
he would have stood his ground, carried on cuddling her, smiling,
and Chris Martin would have moved on. No one would
ever have picked it up.

Speaker 3 (01:48:48):
Yeah, I mean the chances of it that we definitely
would have gone globally vibe viral, would it so? The
way she put her hand on her face, and the
way he died for cover like there was a sniper
shooting at him, and the way her their friend that
was there, stared over at them, it was just you
couldn't have looked more guilty if you'd planned it.

Speaker 5 (01:49:07):
But he does deserve to Louise's job because the power
and balance he hired the HR specialist, he hired the
lady he was having an affair with. Now did he
hire her before the affairs started or after?

Speaker 3 (01:49:21):
But but are you saying do you think that Linda
the woman are just so easily led astray and have
no agency in their life. Surely she's a powerful woman
with her own life and her own ability to make
decisions precisely, But the.

Speaker 5 (01:49:37):
Power and balance between them is such that he does
have the power to end her employment and in that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:46):
Situation, but if you're an HR, you have the power
to end people's employment as well, I mean, if you're
an HR.

Speaker 5 (01:49:53):
But if she reports to him, she is in a
position where if she ended the relationship suddenly she might
find herself out of work.

Speaker 3 (01:50:03):
If it was a female CEO with a male HR employer,
you'd still just just the same.

Speaker 5 (01:50:12):
Just as sad. It's a power thing.

Speaker 3 (01:50:15):
So who can who can? Who can who can have
Let's just say, I mean, I was going to ask
the question Linda, who can have an affair with who?
And work? So maybe let's let's let's take away the
affair part of it. So who do you think can
have a relationship with who in a workplace?

Speaker 5 (01:50:32):
Do they have to be they have to be on
the same level, not necessarily if they're in a situation
like that. If you have a senior executive who is
free to have a relationship and meet someone at work.
The sensible thing was if it were serious, one of
them would change jobs.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
Mm hmm. So you're so the a fair side of
things doesn't even come into it for you, Linda. You're
just saying on a power and balance, even if these
two individuals were single, you'd still see an issue with it. Absolutely, Okay,
that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:51:06):
I just think that women are more powerful than that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:09):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's my thinking is. And I'm
glad you asked that question. But someone in a senior
executive role, it doesn't really matter what their gender is.
She is the head of HR, she's intelligent in her
own right, and it's seemed by all accounts consensual. And
if she wasn't happy with it, then, as someone who's
you know, got a bit of nounced, don't get involved.
And you know historically that was how you jumped classes,

(01:51:32):
so you know you married up. Yep, very true.

Speaker 3 (01:51:36):
I disagree with the power and balance, says Denise. How
many doctors marry their nurse or pilots their Stewardessa's principles
with teachers.

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
Yep, does happen? Absolutely right. I got to play some
messages and come back with more of your calls on
eight Under at eighty ten eighty. It's tender for the.

Speaker 1 (01:51:51):
Big stories, the big issues, the big trends and everything
in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons US Talks
B News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
There B we're talking about this viral moment that people
are still talking about. The CEO of a company called
Astronomer and his head of HR caught on the kiss
cam having an affair. It's all gone pear shaped, but everybody,
everybody is talking about it.

Speaker 13 (01:52:17):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
Just before we get back to the calls, I can
see you tapping away their matte. Heath, You're you're responding
to some of our beloved Texas. A few texts here,
Yeah yeah, a bit of a bit of a bit
of trouble and going on, yeah yeah, good times. Okay, Jean,
welcome to the show.

Speaker 16 (01:52:36):
Oh hi, I'm coming from a distant, distant, different thing.
You're all laughing about it, But has anybody's got to
think about if they've got children's Yeah, yeah, Well I
don't think it's fair on the kids because the kids
once they hear anything, and they'd all go to school
and they'll all be making fun of them. You don't

(01:52:58):
know what the outcome might come from those Do.

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
You think it's okay for us to be laughing on
it all the way over here in New Zealand though so,
I'm not sure if those kids listen to news talks,
he'd be in the afternoon.

Speaker 16 (01:53:07):
I'm just taking it from the point of view that
if they have got children, I couldn't care less what
they do. Doesn't affect me. But I'm thinking of you've
got children over there. Everybody's carrying on like they are here.
They're doing it over where they live.

Speaker 3 (01:53:22):
The thing is that laughter is a great leveler gene
because once you've laughed, you've you whether it's morally right
or not, you've you've admitted that you laughed. So the
fact that I saw it and laughed, there's no there's
no there's no coming back down.

Speaker 16 (01:53:36):
Yeah, you can laugh at it, but you don't have
to keep talking about it. I'm talking it from the
child's point of view. You don't know how that's going
to affect them. If they've got children in the are
the parents talking about it?

Speaker 3 (01:53:49):
Well, you're a bestian, You're a bestion of moral virtue,
and I admire that look I wish that I was
the kind of person that didn't gossip and find things
like this funny. But I'm afraid, Jean, I'm not as
good a person as you, but I admire, I admire
your stand good on.

Speaker 16 (01:54:03):
You well as I say, I'm parent myself and I've
got grandchildren, but I would interesting to happen. And those
who people laughing and stories going around about their parents.

Speaker 3 (01:54:14):
Yeah, well there you go, here you go. Thank you
very much better than she's better than you. And all
these hundreds of other people that are trying to ring in. Yeah, Jean,
and all these people making the memes and the whole
world laughing about it. Walks through the news at HEROLD,
you know the news. What do you call it? Box room?

Speaker 2 (01:54:31):
Yep. Everyone was talking about it, and everyone's still talking
about it. And that's why we're talking about it. But
more Jean's less Tyler's Yeah, absolute, here's a good dicks here.
I was a secretary met my partner at work. He
was a partner of the firm. I was not his secretary.
He was married. We've now been married thirty years. You
get to know someone while working with them, though, one

(01:54:53):
of the partners said of secretary is what you get
your leg over, not what you leave your wife for
years he had many affairs. Son.

Speaker 3 (01:55:00):
Okay, but you know historically, you know, if you make it,
you know, there's if everyone just only on the same level,
then how do people move up levels?

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (01:55:12):
And surely were in a world where someone the fanciest
person in the world can fall in love with the
most lowly person in the world. I mean, ideally it's
not a fear, but I'm not so sure about this
whole parrotpower balance though.

Speaker 13 (01:55:23):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
No, that's an orientic view on things. Thank you very
much to everyone who text and phoned on that good
discussion and more will come out of that story, no doubt,
but that is asked for another day.

Speaker 12 (01:55:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:55:34):
Thank you to all your great New Zealanders for listening
to the show. Thanks so much for all your calls
and text We had a great time chatting. I hope
you had a good time listening. The Matt and Tyler
Afternoons podcast will be out and about now, So if
you missed out jets on lying on your CV and
the morality about that and what would be a better
system than NCAA, then follow our podcast wherever you get
your pots hither dooper Cee Ellen is back, Yes, next

(01:55:57):
she's a great New Zealander. But right now, Tyler, why
would I be playing this song from Coldplay Viva?

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
And I think one of the lyrics is quite apt
to the situation we've just been talking about. He used
to be so high, king of the world, Now he's
sweeping streets. No, we're not really.

Speaker 3 (01:56:13):
I'm sure that CEO is going to be absolutely fine.
And so I said, thank you so much for listening. Everyone,
see you tomorrow Ava.

Speaker 20 (01:56:20):
Until then, give a taste a key Jesus when I
came the world Now, Tyler.

Speaker 1 (01:56:32):
For more from News Talks at b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.

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