Todd Sheppard: Envirocheck CEO on the realities of meth testing in New Zealand

Former Auckland mayor Phil Goff is pushing for more action against drugs - and one expert agrees that New Zealand's meth problem is a unique issue.

Goff spoke to Herald Now after it came to light that his rental property became a meth lab, and fixing the house cost $160,000.

Envirocheck CEO Todd Sheppard joined the Afternoons team to discuss further.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
We are talking about myth testing after Phil Goff mentioned
to Ryan Bridge on The Herald Now that he's spent
one hundred and sixty thousand dollars decontaminating and renovating a
property that was discovered to have been or had a
p lab operating in it. Todd's very good afternoon to you.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
How are you going good? Now? You're a good man
to chat to. You are one of the pioneers of
myth testing in New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
No, you know, I am the pioneer of myth testing
in New Zealand, right and yeah, And we have a
problem in New Zealand and it's growing. After the SIRD
Peter Buttman report, a lot of people stopped testing and
now we're seeing a large portion of what we're testing
coming back positive. The contamination throughout New Zealand is really

(01:02):
bad and it's impacting families. The government has lost control
at this stage. The only option that I see is
continuing testing. Yeah, it's just it's major, It's just the
impact is unbelievable. When I started in twenty twelve. I

(01:23):
didn't think it was a major problem. Back then, twenty
percent of houses that we randomly tested came back positive.
Now it's eighty six percent. What's happened is because of
the Peter Gupman report, a lot of people stopped testing
and those houses moved through the system and they are
still contaminated today.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
So well, let's have a chat about the Sir Peter
Gluckman report, because, as you said, that did change how
a lot of people felt about meth testing. But arguably
it is still quite common within the residential housing market.
Certainly we were asked to do that by our property manager,
but he did say it was a big panic. And
you've got to say, Todd, when that first started testing

(02:04):
and there were a lot of cowboys in the market
and a lot of confusion about what is a safe
level and what is a concerning level. There was panic
around any tiny little bit of methamphetamine that was found
during testing. Residents and homeowners would freak out that this
has been causing a massive health issue for them. But

(02:24):
that wasn't true, though, was it. It is to a
certain level, but most of the homes that that was
being picked up and then quite expense if remedial work
was undertaken, that was a have.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
It was very interesting because when we first action the
meth testing labs here in New Zealand to analyze, the
main important thing was to determine if it was a
lab or was it from a residuence from smoking. And
so when we're screening, we're actually not just looking for meth,
we're looking for precursors associated with manufacturing and that gives

(02:57):
us an indication of what's happened over time and how
to deal with a property. Everyone talks about it being
welling out of proportion. No. In two thousand and forteen
I went to the Commerce Commission. I laid multi complaints
that got turned down. In twenty sixteen I went to
the Prime Minister and the Housing Minister and they didn't

(03:21):
want to listen. So the end results what we had
was in action of any regulations, there was a vacuum
and we had to use what was there at the
time and the only scientific information that we had on
limits where the two and ten guidelines were clean up

(03:41):
the lamps worldwide. When there is no regulations, you have
to use what is appropriate that you can use until
the regulations come in. Now, what I can tell you
is it's been over six years since the government report
came out. The end result is that why has it

(04:02):
taken six years? And I believe that the government is
waiting to see what the exposure researchers overseas are trying
to put together. I think the government's moved to fifteen
too quick, and you know in Australia it's one point five.
So yeah, we have to be cautious moving forward. Look,

(04:23):
any of raising the limits is ideal. I agree ras
can happen in meth testing, and when you're dealing at
one point five microgram, it doesn't take much of a
technical issue to throw that up, you know, over sampling
the surface on the paint, that can that can elevate
readings And yeah, so that's that's that's a major problem.

(04:48):
I'm actually writing a book called The Very Truth about
the meth testing industry and why the government didn't listen
to us, And yeah, it's yeah, you know, I think
about how I started the industry and there was a
lot of people that came in and just yeah, just
caused panic. And I'm ashamed about that because you know,

(05:12):
I developed the industry. But I went to the government.
The government didn't listen, and they're still not listening, and
it's quite sad.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
But what has changed since Sir Peter Gluckman produced that report,
because that, to me, Todd, is the government listening or
certainly the Chief Science Advisor at the time, looking at
what was going on in the residential market and this
testing boom that we had and determining I need to
do an investigation here and figure out is this going
to have adverse health impacts on people living with this

(05:46):
sort of methamphetamine detection in their homes. And then he
came out with that report and said it was overblowing
and that we are more at risk with black mold
in properties, and yes, you can do testing for black mold,
but not the hysteria around black mold is not to
the extent that we still have with methamphetamine youth within
a property.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, what it comes down is we're not testing, we're
not descending our assets. And the problem is the housing
stock is quite contaminated. Now. Every seven years people paint.
We've seen contamination under paint and the problem, the problem
moving forward is the contamination is getting worse.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Now.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I talked to house in New Zealand one hundred and
ten million dollars they spent. I went and showed them
what evidence I had. They didn't listen. They would have
listened to me. And the end result is the general
public has really come to a conclusion that yes, they
believe they've been it's been overstated of the problem. By

(06:45):
the end result is where was the government in twenty
twelve the twenty sixteen They just they weren't proactive.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Todd really good to get your thoughts. Thank you very much,
appreciate you calling up.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
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