Full Show Podcast: 11 August 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed be
follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello all you great New Zealanders, Welcome into podcast one
eighty one eighty Far Out Time Flies. So no met today.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Matt is.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
He had some surgery. But when you're listening to this,
hopefully it was thumbs up for him. He's been waiting
a long time for that. Nothing to be too concerned about.
But he well, he actually turned up for the first hour.
So when he turned up here, how are you doing here?

Speaker 4 (00:42):
Mate?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
You got surgery today. But that's the sort of workhourse
he is. And it was a great show today. So
we talked about myth amphetamin testing and had a guy
called up who reckoned he was the pioneer of myth testing,
but a lot of pushback on the regulations around myth testing.
Then we talked about Winnie Peters and the high version
of you didn't see that. He had a bit of

(01:03):
a standoff with the head of CRL about wearing his
high vision, and then that turned into a great discussion
about how safety, whether that's gone mad, and then some
great stories about those who've worked in the Australian minds
and done the old Fifo hard yacker but good money.
It's a great show. Download, subscribe and give us a
review and we'll catch you here back tomorrow. Give him

(01:24):
a taste love you.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Big stories, the big issues, the big trends and everything
in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons News Talk said, be.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Very good afternoon to you. Welcome into Monday's show. Hope
you had a fantastic weekend whatever you did in this
beautiful country of ours. Now it's just me today. Matt
is off this afternoon. He's back tomorrow. A bit of
planned surgery he's been waiting on. But the workhorse even
turned up this morning and help put the show together.
So all the very best mate for your surgery this afternoon,

(01:59):
and all going well. He will be back tomorrow on
to today's show. It is a doozy as it always
is after three o'clock. Great story about a Kiwi guy
who over to Perth to work in the mines under
Fifo fly in fly out. His name's Lockey Samuel, but
at twenty eight years old he had to be evacuated
from his work site in Western Australia, after telling his

(02:20):
superintendent that if he went back into his room he
might never come out. So he started working in the
mines at nineteen, but what was meant to be a
fresh start quickly turned in to a bit of a
breakdown for him. Long hours, it was big money, but
loss of connection and a lot of drinking. So we
want to have a chat to you if you've done
the mines working in the mines operation, or you've done

(02:42):
the FIFO. It has been tilted as an easy way
for young Kiwis to earn quite a bit of money.
But is the hype maybe a little bit talked up
when it comes to FIFO that is after three o'clock,
after two o'clock. Winston Peters and safety jackets. You may
have seen this on Friday. Rail Minister Winston Peters he
got upset at the first passenger train ride on the

(03:05):
City rail Link after being asked to wear high so
the New Zealand First Leader asked, I quote, what do
I need to wear that when presented with an orange
high vis jacket by City rail Link Chief Executive Patrick Brocky,
and then he went on to say, this is not
a safety zone area. It feels a little bit over
the top. No mate, I'm not going I'm going on

(03:27):
a train ride. I'm not putting on stuff that I
don't need. So that was a hell of an exchange
between Winston Peters and the CEO of the City rail network.
But we want to have a chat about health and
safety in general. Is this symbolic of our over the
top health and safety laws? As did Winston Peters really
need to wear a high viz on a train, but

(03:47):
love to hear what's going on in your workplace when
it comes to health and safety. Is it just holding
things up across the board. And this is a problem
that we're facing when it comes to infrastructure. That is
after two o'clock. But right now, let's have a chat
about meth testing. So it has cost former Auckland Mayor
Phil GoF one hundred and sixty thousand bucks to renovate
his myth contaminated rental property. There was a lap that

(04:10):
was discovered in Gof's Cleveden rental property in April twenty
twenty four. But during an appearance on Herald Now this morning,
he lets slip that it cost him one hundred and
sixty thousand dollars in renovation for tenants that were there
for nine weeks, which he called just outrageous. So the
home tested for a methamphetamine level of two hundred micrograms,

(04:31):
which is officially measured over one hundred square centimeters. The
safe level is fifteen micrograms per one hundred square centimeters.
That's according to settle dot govt dot NZ. But meth testing,
have you found yourself with thousands in reno costs after
myth was detected? And is it's still worth it? A
famous report you might have seen this. This was some

(04:53):
time ago where it was meth testing galore all over
the country and there were cowboys operating and offering their
myth services to at quite a high cost actually, but
to arguably do something that wasn't needed if you're renting
out your property. But love to hear from you if
you have been stung after renting out a property and

(05:14):
then you found that the tenants were using methamfetamine and
you had to pay a pretty penny for renovations or
to decontaminate that property. But here's a little bit of
what Phil GoF said to Rhyme Bridge on hereld now
this morning.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
It's hard to know why New Zealand probably has the
worst statistics for meth am fatamine. It's easy to manufacture.
You're talking about somebody whose house was used as a
meth lab when he was overseas by again, say.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
You were there at that time.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
No, no, I wasn't there.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:44):
It just cost me one hundred and sixty thousand dollars
in renovation for tenants that were there for nine weeks.

Speaker 6 (05:50):
Just outrageous. But look what really worried me.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
Was that they had kids in that house and the
meth level was two hundred when the safe level is fifteen.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
So that was phil goth story one hundred and sixty
thousand dollars when it was discovered a p lab was
operating as a rental But really keen to hear from
you on oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty, we're still
over the top when it comes to these meth testing rules.
When we rented out our place down in christ Jute,
I undertook meth testing and it was two hundred and
sixty dollars to do that. But more and more I'm
starting to think maybe that wasn't money well spent as

(06:21):
an it wasn't really needed, and a lot of property
experts would say after that famous Sir Peter Kluckman report
that myth testing is only recommended with meth lab activity
or heavy use is respect is expected. So the chance
of your property being a myth lab is obviously very small. Thankfully,
recent figure show zero point zero one percent of rental

(06:41):
properties identified as p labs, which is a very very
low number. So can you hear from you, oh, eight
hundred eighty ten eighty myth testing? Is it just a
massive have or have you been stung when you've rented
out a property and it was discovered that myth was
used within the house after myth testing and you had
to pay a lot of money to decontaminate. Really, can

(07:01):
you get your thoughts on this one? O eight hundred
eighty ten eighty is the number to call if you
want to send a teacher more than welcome. Nine two
ninety two. It is twelve past one.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons, excused talks.

Speaker 6 (07:19):
It'd be.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Very good afternoon to you. We are talking about meth
testing in New Zealand. It's on the back of phil
Goff admitting that it cost him one hundred and sixty
thousand dollars to decontaminate and renovate his home after tenants
were found to have been operating a myth lab inside
one of his rentals. One hundred and sixty thousand dollars
is a hell of a lot of money. But can

(07:42):
you hear your stories if you've been hit before when
you've rented out one of your properties and it turned
out that the tenants were using methamphetamine? Did you have
to pay a pretty penny to decontaminate and to do repairs? Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. And we talk about this
because there was a big pushback on the myth testing
operations some years ago. So Peter Gluckman, he was the

(08:04):
Science Advisor to the Prime Minister at the time, rose
A reports and the key part of that report was
that meth testing is only recommended where meth lab activity
or heavy use is suspected. And there'd be a lot
of people listening right now that would have paid a
lot of money for meth testing when they've rented out
of property. In between tenants, Me, myself and my partner Maye,

(08:25):
we just spent three hundred dollars having meth testing in
our property. But the question is are we a little
bit over the top when it comes to these testing requirements,
Because if it isn't going to be a meth lab situation,
or arguably the heavy use element is hard to determine,
then is this just a bit of a half when

(08:45):
it comes to meth testing. But there'll be a lot
of people also out there that perhaps didn't get the
meth testing done and were hit with big costs when
they discovered that their tenants were using a lot of
meth amphetamine in the house or indeed had operated a
p lab, as is the case with former Auckland mayor
and labor minister Phil Goff. A couple of texts coming

(09:06):
through here, Tyler, you do not need inspections for rentals.
You can buy myth sensors that're going to a home
and detect gases in the use and making of myth
in your properties and send notifications straight to your phone
from Craig. So that certainly takes away the idea of

(09:27):
meth testing where before a tenant moves in and when
a tenant moves out. But arguably, I mean I'd love
to hear more about that, Craig, Does that start to
impinge on the privacy and the ability for those tenants
to use the house without complete oversight? I mean, what
happens when one of those sensors kick off potential meth

(09:49):
and fetamine use? And how reliable is it? Can you
then at that point go straight in there and kick
them out? Love to hear more? Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty is the number to call, Susan And
how are you and what's your take on the myth testing?

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Oh? Look, I think it's It's part of healthy homes, really,
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yes, there is an element to it. And I've got
to say, in our case, we just listened to the
property manager. The property manager gave us a choice and
said it's up to you whether you want to do
meth testing. But as we understood it, and as I
understood it, it was to protect ourselves. So three hundred
dollars to get the guy to come in to deliver
the report, and that report effectively meant that once our

(10:30):
tenants move out of the house and there is myth
detected after that, we're not liable. We could show that
it was perfectly clean before they moved in correct.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
And you know, for the price, the price of what
it is, I get our houses done through Myth Solutions,
a fantastic service. Great you can ring up and have
a conversation with them. I would suspect that none of
the state owned houses will have meth testing done pre
and post tenancy. So and the Glutman report actually increased

(11:05):
it from point I think it was one point five
micrograms per meter squared up to fifteen so and that
was during our previous government's reign. And I think there's
no reason for that. But as a landlord, if I
want to provide healthy home, it's no different than having

(11:28):
an extract defan or you know, warmth and heating in
my passion, and it provides a really good benchmark. So
from my point of views, free hundred and fifty bucks
is a good benchmark and belly for money.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Have you Have you ever been stung when you perhaps
didn't get the myth testing report done or you discovered
after a tendency that there was meth use because you
did testing after the fact, and it costs you a
lot of money to remedy.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
That never had been stay as over the composite average.
We've cleaned houses because there has been use in the house,
but it hasn't gone over and above that. So certainly
the last rental that we did, we cleaned it noticed

(12:17):
that it was raised a little bit, so we went
through and cleaned everything uphill down and got it tested
again to check that it was safe for people. So yeah,
it's certainly.

Speaker 7 (12:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
I think it's you know, some of the landlords don't
believe that, and that's you know, that's fine, But from
from my point of view as a landlord, I think
that it's it's part of being a good landlord.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Really, it's a peace of mind. I mean a lot
of people are texting through Suzanne and calling it a
scam across the board that if it was discovered someone
operates a pea lab, meth myth amphetamine lab in your property,
that's still covered by insurance. So the idea of paying
a consultant to come in for three hundred bucks for
testing is not needed. What would you say to those people.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Oh, I'd say that part of having your sept a
tent cleaned is that you get an inspection for your
septic tank. You know, when you get your chimney sweat.
You get an inspection for your chimney. This is no different.
And this is about making sure that your house is
healthy for people. And one of the previous Texas talked
about children in there. You know, children are incredibly open

(13:25):
to that sort of contamination. How would I feel if
my children and my grandchildren were in a house that
had not been tested and found to be over the
level you know, three hundred and fifty dollars to get
a house checked. What is that over a year's rental,
you know, a dollar week or you know that's fifty

(13:46):
to six dollars a week something like that. You know,
I would pay that if I was a tenant going
in and you know, but I don't think I should
have to pay this a tenant because I think it's
part of a landlord's responsibility.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
So good, You're a good landlord, Susan, no doubt about it.
But just on that, I mean, I suppose part of
the confusion here for a lot of people is after
that that Gluckman report that the levels we thought were
harmful originally and this is when the cowboys were operating,
just wasn't true that there would be many more things
in the house that nobody worries about that would be

(14:19):
far more toxic to children or general people than than
minimal meth and fetamine use. He was worried about pe lapse,
and he was worried about very very heavy meth and
fetamine use. But in general, the danger to people with
a little bit of meth and fetamine use in the
house was was minimal to zero.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, but if you don't if you don't test, you
don't know that, do you. And if you look at
if you look at the Gluckman report, in comparison to
I understand the rest of the world, we are still
far in advance of the rest of the world. The
rest of the world is still one point five. We're fifteen.
So you know, you know, you just have to have

(14:57):
to decide what if as a landlord, you have to
decide what benchmark you want and and work to that.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yep, Suzan, really nice to hear from you. Thank you
very much forget van us A barz O eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number. Call love to
hear from you if you've had issues with metham fetamine
use in it and a property that you've rented out
or you've been a tenant and you've been unfairly accused
of using methamphetamine when you haven't. Oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. The other question here is one hundred and

(15:25):
sixty thousand dollars. Former Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has spent
on decontaminating and renovating his property when it was discovered
there was a PE lab in operation. There's a few
people texting through saying he got ripped off, and I
can understand that sentiment. One hundred and sixty thousand dollars.
And again this goes back to the fear and freak
out we've had over minimal often and in this case

(15:46):
it wasn't minimal, but even significant use of methamphetamine in
a property. One hundred and sixty thousand dollars to decontaminate.
Does that sound right to you? Love to hear from you.
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
It is twenty three past one.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers, the mic asking
breakfast the time.

Speaker 8 (16:04):
Ministers in the studio and like I've just come from TVNZ.
They said they'd take you for some predy treasure roll.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Oh they did today.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
I said, I don't think you'll survive if I enter,
I win.

Speaker 6 (16:12):
I've got a one eye.

Speaker 9 (16:13):
You'd be hopeless at it.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
You'd come in here.

Speaker 9 (16:15):
Well, no, no, you're going to help me with all
your questions.

Speaker 8 (16:18):
It's nice you're going to give it a go, but
I can't see your surviving without your pig screen TV. Yeah, no,
that's probably that's true.

Speaker 10 (16:22):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (16:23):
Hipkins was alluding to the fact he may well run
on capital gains tax. Would you be happy to run
a campaign? I'll bring that on the thing that I
was quite alarmed about. You had Chloe Swarbrook's name. She
wants to be finance minister, and you didn't have Chris
Sipkins rull it out. She wants to have forty four
billion dollars worth of debt eighty eight billion dollars worth
of taxes back Tomorrow at six am the Mike Hosking
Breakfast with Mayley's Real Estate News Talk ZV.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Very good afternoon to you, just Tyler, and today Matt
is about to go under in about twenty minutes for surgery,
long awaited surgery, so wishing him while he will be
back tomorrow. Text here, Tyler, where is a sick note
from Matt to Nasville one? So we'll get one of
those from him tomorrow when he's back. But we are
talking about meth and fetamine testing, know it? Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. This is on the back of
Phil Goff who mentioned to Ryan Bridge on Herold Now

(17:06):
this morning, Nettie spend one hundred sixty thousand dollars renovating
and decontaminating his property after a meth lab was found.
So a couple of questions there. One, generally meth testing
is is it a bit of a have have you
gone through that process? We have, me and my partner Mave.
We spent three hundred bucks before we rented our property out.
Is it really needed? On the back of the Sir

(17:27):
Peter Gluckman report that mentioned it wasn't needed unless there's
a p lab operating or very heavy use. And the
second follow up question is one hundred and sixty thousand
dollars for Phil Goff, was that a bit of a
ripoff in terms of decontamination? Oh, eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call Graham. You used
to be a myth tester.

Speaker 11 (17:46):
Yeah, man, a couple of points on that. The lady
that was on before, Yes, she's right in that the
rest of the world is still at one point two
one and one point five. The Gluckman report advised that
the level could be fifteen, and he said he had
put his kids in the back or even higher, but
underwork safe and the legislation in New Zealand at the

(18:08):
moment still one point five. So in theory, if a
real estate agent's got a house on the market and
he's got it the sailing in their noses, methan there
he should be wearing the bloody full suits and DP
and all this sort of stuff before these people in.
That's going to one extreme, But that's the way it
stands at the moment with regards to testing, and I've

(18:30):
been I'm not doing it anymore. I haven't done for
a couple of years. But when we were doing it
a while ago, there was instances where we would do
a test on the house, but we would have been
called in because Mum was really concerned about the kids.
And if a house has been used and myth has
been spoke in it for any length of time, of
course the myth settles and it goes on the carpet.

(18:52):
So if you've got the young kids are pulling around
on the carpet, that's what kids like, and pick up
stuff and sucking.

Speaker 12 (18:58):
All sort of things.

Speaker 11 (18:59):
So that's one of the severe dangers that you'll have
of meth inside a house. Now, when you look at
Phil Goff and his costs evolved in the renovation, you've
got to think of things even down to the air
conditioning units, because if you've had meth in the environment
and the fans are going, all of the meth particles

(19:20):
are stuck inside that air conditioning unit. So you might
decontaminate the whole house, but then you turn the air
conditioning unit back on and all of a sudden you've
got problem again. But is that not just the or
the paint or anything.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
So and this is good too to chat with you, Graham,
because you used to do this. But I'm just reading
some summaries of the Gluckman report now. So he said,
as long as the meth residue levels are under fifteen
per one hundred centimeters square, the health threat risks are
pretty much neglible, sorry, are pretty much non existent. So
when you talk about that residue that might be in

(19:55):
the carpet or in the air vents events. Most of
the time, ninety nine percent of the time, unless it's
very heavy use or it's a pea lab, it won't
be much of a health issue, will it.

Speaker 11 (20:08):
What do you call heavy use?

Speaker 6 (20:09):
Tanta?

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, yeah, that is a good question, and he did
indicate heavy use. So is that smoking mythan fetamine each day?
Is that on a weekly basis? Is that after they've
had a wild party and a friend's lights up.

Speaker 11 (20:22):
Well I did a heavy use property and the level
was two thousand.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, so that very high.

Speaker 11 (20:33):
Yeah, unless your test, you're not going to know. So
it's got to be tested full stop. So if you
want to have a healthy home, if you want to
have a place that you move into. And we used
to do a lot of testing for tenants that had
shifted into a house and a number of times we
found houses that had a very high reading that the

(20:55):
landlord wasn't prepared to test. So then there was compensation
done through the tenancy tribunal for the tenant.

Speaker 9 (21:02):
To move out.

Speaker 11 (21:04):
But the thing is you and at cost is what
it's getting at before. So you've got the painting and
sometimes you'll there was a couple of houses we did.
We had the jib board had to be taken off
and the framing behind it was showing a level of
over fifteen. So that's how far it can go. In
that case, that was an extreme one. But so sometimes

(21:25):
the jib has to come off, curtains have got to go,
carp it's got to go repail or cleaning first, then repainting.
It can be the even the stone of the elements
in all some electrical equipment. So it depends on what
was actually included in that one hundred and sixty that
shows they contaminations concerned. I can see why the cost

(21:46):
has gone up to that level in some cases most
of them that was done for I think their quotes
came in between fifteen and twenty I suppose right, was
that that was the average back then.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
So what is the danger if there is a home
at those high levels and if it's got children or
actually people that they don't know that there was heavy
use mithuse with an that property. What are the health concerns?
Is it at lung issues? Is it across the board?
Is that? What would be the big dangers there?

Speaker 11 (22:16):
And you've got to think about pets as well, not
just kids. There was one lady we were dealing with
now at Morinsville on a farm property. Her young daughter
was actually airlifted hospital twice with respiratory issues and they
couldn't work out what it was until we were board

(22:36):
into test and we found the levels in the house.
So most testing is done on the walls. You know,
it's very hard to test on the carpet, so you
do on the walls. And here's another thing. You might
get one a landlord, for example, will get one agency
into test and then they might not get that same

(22:57):
agency back.

Speaker 13 (22:58):
To do the second test.

Speaker 11 (22:59):
But unless it's photographic evidence that we've done that testing from,
you've got no benchmark as to whether or not their
decontamination has been effective. Close to a window. The testing
should be close to a window because that was where
air movement is greatest. So it could do one in
the middle of the wall, down the hall or something
like that, you're not going to get the same sort

(23:20):
of reading as if you would next to a door. Yeah,
there's all those sort of things that need to be done.
And you're write about the cowboys. There were so many
of them around who were doing it for cap price.
That's one of the reasons we've got out of it,
because the credibility of the agency's doing the testing that
were shot when that report came out, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, and they were charging big money for it, and
people were a bit confused, and the differing standards and regulations.
I don't think there were standards back then, right, so
that they could come in and if they got a reading,
even if it was very small, that would freak out
homeowners and say jeepers, yep, we better do something here,
when in reality it just wasn't an issue for most people,

(23:58):
for most people during those times.

Speaker 11 (24:00):
Yeah, I think you'll find the jury's out on the
Glackman report. He is a it's obviously a scientist. Applications
and everything that I could show you also a number
of scientists who have got a completely different opinion.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Right, Graham, Really good to chat with you. Thank you
very much for giving us a buzz. Love to hear
your thoughts. All right. Hundred eighty ten eighty is the
number call coming up after headlines, We're going to have
a chat with a gentleman who was the pioneer of
meth testing industry. So this will be good headlines coming.

Speaker 14 (24:28):
Up new talks be headlines with blue bubble taxis it's
no trouble with the blue bubble. A committee of former
MPs is holding its first hearing on the pay equity
bill rush through Parliament under urgency to free money for
this year's budget. They suggest it could tarnish New Zealand
in the eyes of the world. On upholding the rule

(24:51):
of law, a call for more police reinforcements in Northland,
where out of town offices have been brought in for
five week shifts alongside a rash of violent crime. South
Auckland's Aerie College has come out of lockdown after aggressive
adults entered the grass this morning. The Papa Toy Toy
Schools says staff escorted them away with art incident and

(25:13):
says parents shouldn't turn up and all students are safe.
Mystery surrounds the death of fifty nine year old Leanne
ray Davis in Auckland's Parnell last Thursday, found inside a
Craycraft Street apartment, bost Morton, was inconclusive and the debt's
still under investigation. Moor laser pointer attacks on aircraft and

(25:34):
more devices intercepted read more at nzed Harold Premium back
to Matt Heath and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Thank you very much, Jody. We are talking about myth
testing after Phil Goff mentioned to Ryan Bridge on the
Herald Now that he's spent one hundred and sixty thousand
dollars decontaminating and renovating a property that was discovered to
have been or had a p lab operating in it.
So love to hear from you on eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty the idea of myth testing. And we've

(26:01):
been talking about the Sir Peter Gluckman report that was
released in twenty eighteen, and I'll just reduce some of
his comments that he made at the time. So the
Prime Minister's Chief Science Advisor as he was in twenty eighteen,
says he cannot see the point in testing homes for
methamphetamine because the risk to health is so low in
most cases. So he produced that report for then Housing
Minister Phil Twinevit and he says there's no evidence that

(26:23):
third hand exposure from methamphetamine smoking causes adverse health effects.
So the third party exposure of the third hand exposure
is effectively when it's settled into the drapes and the
carpets and the curtains, and that report found there was
no adverse health effects. So is it all a bit
of a have Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty

(26:43):
is the number to call Todd. Very good afternoon to you.

Speaker 15 (26:47):
Yeah, good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
How are you going good? Now, you're a good man
to chat to. You are one of the pioneers of
meth testing in New Zealand.

Speaker 16 (26:54):
No, I am the pioneer of meth testing in New Zealand,
right and yeah, And we have a problem in New
Zealand and it's growing. After the third Peter Buttman report,
a lot of people stop testing and now we're seeing
a large portion of what we're testing coming back positive.

(27:14):
The contamination throughout New Zealand is really bad and it's
impacting families. The government has lost control at this stage.
The only option that I see is continuing testing. Yeah,
it's just it's major. It's just the impact is unbelievable.

(27:35):
When I started in twenty twelve, I didn't think it
was a major problem. Back then, twenty percent of houses
that we randomly came back positive. Now it's eighty six percent.
What's happened is because of the Peter Glupment report, a
lot of people stopped testing and those houses moved through
the system and they are still contaminated today.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
So well, let's have a chat about the Peter Gluckman report, because,
as you said, that did change how a lot of
people felt about meth testing, but arguably it is still
quite common with than the residential housing market. Certainly we
were asked to do that by our property manager, but
he did say it was a big panic. And you've
got to say Todd when that first started testing and

(28:18):
there were a lot of cowboys in the market and
a lot of confusion about what is a safe level
and what is a concerning level. There was panic around
any tiny little bit of methamphetamine that was found during testing.
Residents and homeowners would freak out that this has been
causing a massive health issue for them. But that wasn't

(28:39):
true though, was it. It is to a certain level,
but most of the homes that that was being picked
up and then quite expense if remedial work was undertaken.
That was a have.

Speaker 16 (28:51):
That's very interesting because when we first action the myth
testing labs here in New Zealand to analyze the main
important thing was to determine if it was a lab
or was it from a residence from smoking, And so
when we're screening, we're actually not just looking for met
we're looking for precursors associated with manufacturing and that gives

(29:12):
us an indication of what's happened over time and how
to deal with the property. Everyone talks about it being
one out of proportion.

Speaker 17 (29:23):
No.

Speaker 16 (29:23):
In twenty and fourteen I went to the Commerce Commission.
I laid multi complaints that got turned down. In twenty
sixteen I went to the Prime Minister and the Housing
Minister and they didn't want to listen. So the end
results what we had was in action of any regulations,
there was a vacuum and we had to use what

(29:46):
was there at the time and the only scientific information
that we had on limits were the T and ten
guidelines were clean up the lambs worldwide. When there is
no regulations, you have to use what is appropriate that
you can use until the regulations come in. Now, what

(30:09):
I can tell is it's been over six years since
the government upment report came out. The end result is
is that why has it taken six years? And I
believe that the government is waiting to see what the
exposure researchers overseas are trying to put together. I think
the government's moved to fifteen too quick, and you know

(30:31):
in Australia it's one point five. So yeah, we have
to be cautious moving forward. Look, any of raising the
limits is ideal. I agree. Errors can happen in meth testing,
and when you're dealing at one point five microgram, it
doesn't take much of a technical issue to throw that up,

(30:53):
you know, over sampling the surface on the paint, that
can that can elevate readings and yeah, so that's that's
that's a major problem. I'm actually writing a book called
The Very Truth about the myth testing Industry and why
the Government didn't listen to us, And yeah, it's yeah,

(31:14):
you know, I think about how I started the industry
and there was a lot of people that came in
and just yeah, just caused panic. And I'm ashamed about
that because you know, I developed the industry, but I
went to the government. The government didn't listen, and it's
still not listening and it's quite sad.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
But what has changed since Sir Peter Gluckman produced that report,
because that, to me, Todd is the government listening or
certainly the Chief Science Advisor at the time looking at
what was going on in the residential market and this
testing boom that we had and determining I need to
do an investigation here and figure out is this going
to have adverse health impacts on people living with this

(32:00):
sort of methamphetamine detection in their homes. And then he
came out with that report and said it was overblowing
and that we at risk with black mold in properties,
and yes, you can do testing for black mold, but
not the hysteria around black mold is not to the
extent that we still have with methanphetamine youth within within
a property.

Speaker 15 (32:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (32:20):
What it comes down is we're not testing, we're not
defending our assets. And the problem is the housing stock
is quite contaminated. Now every seven years people paint. We've
seen contamination under paint and the problem, the problem moving
forward is the contamination is getting worse now. I talked
to house in New Zealand one hundred and ten million

(32:42):
dollars they spent. I went and showed them what the
evidence I had. They didn't listen. They would have listened
to me. And the end result is the general public
has really come to a conclusion that yes, they believe
they've been it's been overstated of the problem. But the
end result is where was the government in twenty twelve

(33:04):
the twenty sixteen they just they weren't proactive.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Todd really good to get your thoughts. Thank you very much,
appreciate you calling up. What do you say? I eight
hundred eighty ten eighty Do you think methaan fhetamine testing
is still a rought? Have you refused to do it,
if you have tended in your place out or have
you been stung when you didn't get a report and
then found out the tenants we're using methan fetamine and
it costs you down the track? Really, can you get
your thoughts on this? I eighte hundred eighty ten eighty

(33:28):
is the number to court. It is a quarter to two.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Matt Heath Tyler Adams taking your calls on Oh, eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty, it's mad Heathen Tyler Adams Afternoons.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
News Talk said, afternoon, it is twelve to two and
we're talking about meth testing. A great text here, GeTe Tyler.
I think the debates has become conflated in the testing
in itself is valid, but the debate should be around
what is the safe level to warrant a decontamination. The
argument that we shouldn't be testing full stop is not valid.
It's about what level of the test results should there

(34:02):
be a decontamination of what is considered safe? And I
think that's a very fair point. Thank you for that.

Speaker 13 (34:09):
Gary, Hi, it's.

Speaker 18 (34:11):
Me you're talking to.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, that's you, my friends. What's your thoughts about?

Speaker 18 (34:16):
Yeah, sorry, it's Jerry, not Gary.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Oh, Jerry. That's right, mate.

Speaker 18 (34:19):
Yeah, okay, that's all good. Look I have some pretty
staunch views on this, and my day I was around
a lot of it, and I'm talking quite a serious
amount of it, both in use and and everything else. Now,
my experience with all of all of that is I've
seen people absolutely consume bucket loads of it themselves and

(34:43):
just you know, like myself or whatever, everybody's clean now
that I've survived or whatever, probably had what what would
you would some people would say, should kill ten horses
or whatever. But you know, the bottom line is, I've
seen people exposed to it, had massive amounts of it
and there was nothing wrong with them. So if you're

(35:06):
telling me that because you've had heavy smoking in the
house or doing a little kroock in our house, that
down the track, that is a liability to anybody's health,
and you need to spend all that money on cleaning
it up. To me, you need your head read.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Isn't there a balanced Jerry? I mean, I agree with
you that it feels like a bit of a wrought
in general. But if there is a methanphetamine lad in
your property and you don't know about that, then you
find out about it. Surely at that point that is
probably a level. And according to the Gluckman reporter he
believed it was that's probably a level that could be
harmful and least you decontaminate.

Speaker 18 (35:44):
I agree with that, but I mean in the early days,
and I've even struck it now through friends and other
areas of business that have been involved in apartment rentals
and residential rentals and whatnot, and they have sold the
concept that because they knew that the tenant had been

(36:04):
a meth smoker, there've been mes in there that they
had to have all this money spent before they could
put new tenants in and safety for this that and
it was an absolute.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Raught as part of it Jerry the insurance side of things.
That's why me and my partner decided to get one
is I just wanted that peace of mind. Paid three
hundred bucks for a peace of mind that if something
is discovered down the track, we made it clear and
we've got evidence that it was perfectly clean when we
tended it out of the place. So if one of

(36:37):
the tenants asides to set up a pe lap, then
we've got that piece of paper right there to say
it was clean as a whistle. Now it's not, we've
got to come after the tenants and that's proof.

Speaker 18 (36:48):
No, I absolutely agree with that. That's common sense future
proofing yourself against liability and whatnot. But you know the
promise that because people have been sitting in the lounge
smoking a lot of metal whatever, all your paint's going
to fall off and your baby's going to touch the
wall and come out with five eyes and things like that,

(37:10):
that was marketed by people that's that saw the opportunity
to make a lot of money out of something. You know,
they're all suited up going into that refidential place because
there's been reported miss moking and so they're all in there,
has has gear and this there and the other and
it was just an absolute clock.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah. I agree with you there. I mean they made
it look like they were going into Fukushima. It was
way over blind. Jerry, thank you very much for your call.
It is eight minutes to two. Back very shortly.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Matt Heath Tyler Adams taking your calls on eight hundred eighty.
It's Mad Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talks.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
B News Talks. They be good afternoon, Mary.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Here are you toil up?

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Very good? So you had a bit of an issue
with myth and fetamine use not you yourself, sorry, but
with a home, yes.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Where the house have just about got pulled down. They
got washed three times to try and remove it, and
they were just about to pull it down. The last wash.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
Actually saved it, right.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
And what happened was it a lab, Yes.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
And the cops knew, and the cops did nothing about.
The neighbors complained because they were so they nearly had
to move out of their house because the stench from
the fumes were so bad. Everyone knew and no one
knew anything about it?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Right, And so how much did you pay so decontaminate?

Speaker 3 (38:38):
We were just lucky that the insurance covered it. This
was in the early days. But coming back to the
Gluckman report, that that was rafted that way to save
the government from heaps of money because all their houses
would have been condemned. They increased the level. Otherwise they

(39:00):
would have known the people to live because that many
there's that much contamination and all those mental houses that
the government owned.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
That was a part of a barrier. I do recall
it though, were the part of a report was that
the government would save one hundred million dollars from not
having to do myth testing on all of the state homes,
but arguably for residential landlords who were tendanting out their property.
You can see back in the early stages there was
a hysteria over myth testing.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Well, when the tenant was sick and when we got
the house refurbished because we didn't know it was contaminated
and the painter got sick and no one could put
it down, do anything. And when we finally got the house,
the neighbors come over into the house has tested, I
mean as a pea lab tested and sure enough, so

(39:48):
all the good work had done.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
How to get undone, well, that is a horror story.
Barry but glad it worked out and the insurance came through.
Thank you to everybody who phoned and text on that one.
That was a great discussion. Coming up after two o'clock.
This will be good as well. Winston Peters in high
visibility jackets. Is health and safety gone crazy? Oh eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. The number to call nine
two ninety two is the text number. New Sport and

(40:11):
Weather on its way.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Talking with you all afternoon. It's Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams
Afternoons News Talks.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
It'd be afternoon to you. Welcome back into the program.
Just Tyler today, Matt as we speak as under undergoing surgery.
He's been expecting that for some time, So go well mate,
Not that you'll hear me saying that, because you'll be
well under by now. But he will be back tomorrow.
This is going to be a good chat. Just have
a chat about Winston Peters and high VERZ gear. So

(40:42):
it all kicked off on Friday. The New Zealand first
leader was asked to wear a high VIZ jacket by
the head of CRL, Rockie Peters. And here's a little
bit of that exchange.

Speaker 9 (40:55):
So we can we can make sure we look after
you and get your there's going.

Speaker 11 (40:58):
To be.

Speaker 16 (41:01):
I'm serious money.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Matey, right, we don't need it in the station.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
Job set.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
No, it's part of our protocol.

Speaker 19 (41:21):
You got to tell you.

Speaker 12 (41:24):
I don't know what to say.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Somebody used to work.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
A little bit of.

Speaker 9 (41:31):
Fun danous job this one.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yes, that's probably true. Agree, So that is part of
the exchange and a little bit to hear some of
what was said. But that was an exchange with Patrick Brockie,
who was the chief executive of the c r L,
trying to make the honorable Winston Peters wear that high
viz h and Winston Peter said, na, mates, I'm going
on a train ride. I'm not putting on stuff that
I don't need. And then Brocky replied, it's simply if

(41:56):
we have an incident in the tunnel or something like that.
And then Winston Peters went on to talk about his
history of going into tunnels and doing some very dangerous work,
so he knew what he was talking about when it
came to health and safety. He did eventually put on
that high vis jacket. But here's what he said after
the event. Some of us have lived our lives in
high visibility safety is critically important, but turning it into

(42:18):
a costume period drama risks undermining it. So we asked
for an explanation and got one. It was confirmed that
hard hats and safety glasses were not required given we
were visiting an open station and sitting on a passenger
train where physical work had been paused and separation barriers
put in place. So can I have a chat with
you about this? He obviously pushed back hard on this
idea of wearing these high vis jackets and dotting the

(42:40):
hard hats and the safety glasses because, as he said,
they weren't in a risky environment. Safety wasn't a concern
in this area. But is this symbolic of where we're
at when it comes to health and safety in this country?
No doubt about it. Whenever you go into one of
these things, one of these sites, and as a former journalist,
I attended many events where they asked us to put
on the hard hats and the steel cap birds and

(43:02):
the high vis jackets, And sometimes you do look and think,
is this all rarely needed? So is this part of
the reason why we just seem to not get stuff
done in this country? That the health and safety has
gone crazy. O eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. The phones have lit up if you
want to send a teacher more than welcome nine to
ninety two. But Kendy here from you health and safety regulations?

(43:25):
Is this too far? I understand why the boss of
CRL pushed Winston Peters on wearing that jacket because a
lot of it's about liability, right, And things changed after
the Pink River tragedy that those health and safety regulations
and work Safe came into the picture and Osh was
a decommissioned, so to speak. But did that go too far?

(43:46):
When work when that explosion happened, and people, quite rightly
were very upset. What happened? The regulations that were put
in safe and work Safe's oversight? Has it become too precious?
Love your thoughts on this one. It is ten past two.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Wow your home of afternoon talk, Mad Heathen Taylor Adams
afternoons call Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth talk,
Say be.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Very good afternoon to you. We are talking about Winston
Peter's reluctance to put on a high viz jacket when
he went to go see the new cr ol. Is
this symbolic of health and safety regulations going too far?
And I will mention the work, Workplace Relations and Safety
Minister Brook van Velden is currently consulting on potentially changing

(44:36):
and altering some of those regulations. So can you get
your views? Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is
the number to call Pete. How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 6 (44:44):
Yeah, Tarli good.

Speaker 10 (44:45):
No, when he goes on there's there'shrebious a standard of
address in the Parliament, shouldn't he?

Speaker 4 (44:52):
So?

Speaker 10 (44:53):
I think you know's what he expects.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
You know that.

Speaker 10 (44:56):
But the end of the day, as I've been a
construction myself over the years, it's part of the job,
whatever the job is, if you're required do wear health
and safety year which in this case it was the
high viz. You don't like the He must have known that.
I think he made a big issue out of nothing.
Just put the damn best on and because the end
of the day, those people u lest they got that

(45:17):
they wear those mostly we wear those best or whatever
at various any site, whether at the Britain mart and
the train station where it might be or in a
place of work whatever that's a uniform. If you don't
like it, then basically go find another job. I think
he made himself he's pretty short now. He made himself
look a little bit shorter that day.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
I think a lot of people will you thinking that
Peter is that you're there to celebrate the opening of
the CRL or certainly the first trip, and you're going
to do what's needed under those health and safety regulations.
And the head of CRL didn't make those. He just
has to abide by them, you know, or else face
potential liability. But can you see Winston Peter's point that

(45:59):
this is a man who has worked in the minds
and he's operated in tunnels in a previous life, so
he understands health and safety. And he's looking at the
situation he's going into and look at the sea, at
the chief executive. Now he's got his hard hat on,
he's got a safety glasses on, he's got this ginormous
high ver's jacket on, he's probably got steel cap boots
for riding on a train. And when Ston Peter's is

(46:20):
probably looking at all this and thinking what happened? What happened?
To going so overboard with health and safety that for
many industries out there, they struggle to get things done.

Speaker 20 (46:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (46:34):
I've been in construction myself too on the Motui plant,
converted it brand new when it was some fields at
the time in the building was on the government rules
and we had no how often visiting those days.

Speaker 13 (46:51):
He that was back.

Speaker 10 (46:52):
In the early eighties, and that that was a sign
of the time. So things have now changed, So you know,
sometimes you have to go along with the change. You
might not like the change. The end of the day,
it is, that's what it is. If you don't like
the rules. He must have known that, basically. Yeah, And
I don't understand when he took he worked in the mines.
I worked in that construction site in nineteen eighties, well

(47:14):
and stuff there, and we got away of that. But
now we're not in the nineteen eighties or the nineteen
sixties or the nineteen seventies anymore. We're in We're in
the year twenty and twenty five.

Speaker 12 (47:24):
So we have to move on.

Speaker 13 (47:25):
And I think he may he just he should have
just put the vest on.

Speaker 10 (47:28):
He made himself as tired. You can't break the rules.
The rules are the rules. And that we're all at
the wears of it. Put the damn best on to
save them a lot of waste of energy getting stressed
out about nothing. He made usself a little bit stupid, I.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Think yeah, and a lot of people again would would
feel that way, Pete, And good on you for fighting
your argument strongly. But it's symbolic, right, So take the
vest aside, and yep, he could have worn the vest
jumped on that train happily. Ever after, nobody would say
anything but to me, I think this is symbolic of
the wider health and safety regulations. And I'll just give

(48:00):
you an example. Back when I was helping. My daddy
was a sparky, so I was laboring and I could see.
It was well known on a work site that if
you needed to get up a ladder or to undertake
something that had a small amount of risk sometimes that
you needed Osh to come in and sign it off,
and that held things up like nothing else, and a
lot of builders and a lot of other tradees would

(48:22):
just get up there and do it and get it
done because they could see the risk was little. And
yes there was fear of prosecution if they were found out,
but that frustration of just saying I can get up
that ladder and wire that up as quick as you like,
and I don't need the oshmen to come around here
and sign that off. And then it feels that we've
got further and further into a situation where there's so
many hold ups and red tape that this is why

(48:46):
the costs of blooming out and this is why we
struggle to get anything done, because every tiny little thing
has to be signed off by a health and safety consultant.

Speaker 13 (48:55):
I agree one.

Speaker 10 (48:56):
Hundred sent what you just said. It's an overtook, a
rook band of Valden's doing right now. I had supert
it hotally, I've been on construction those days and that
as well, and there is too much paperwork, and there's
more paperwork than actual we've ben get on the site.
So end of the day is no one wherever it
goes to work with fifteen fingers. They want to come
home with your teen fingers. Right, So anyday waughts upon

(49:19):
you ourself, make sure you're safe and your people around
you're safe. So a lot of it's to do of
common sense, but the common sense part of its sky.
Now they're treating a lot of people like kids one
hundred percent agree what you're saying about and it's Goyne
too far hope book ren Vald and what she does
takes a lot of those things away. So they're doing
a lot of being away for a lot of the
red tape stuff and make it start thinking for yourself.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Pete always good to check my friend. Thank you very
much for giving us a buzz. Wilson, how are you?

Speaker 18 (49:47):
Yeah? Good?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Thanks Tyler and your thoughts about the high Viz stand
off with Winston Peters in the head of CRL.

Speaker 9 (49:54):
I agree with Winston. It's absolutely amazing. You see it
on the TV and these politicians are opening a new
road standing under a clear blue sky, wearing an idiot
looking hat, glass air up and they're coming a ribbon
and there's absolutely no danger at all. And a couple

(50:15):
of points on the CRL, those vests they were all
brand new, brand new printed for that you know, five
minute media stand up. And the CRL is an absolute
when you look at the stations, the large yes, the
stations of it are just like art galleries. So there's

(50:35):
a billion dollars an overrun there. But going back to
the health and safety, once the stations are open and
the city links open. What ten thousand commuters a day
are going to go down and ride that train without
any hiver's on it all.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, Well, wouldn't it be a sight if every run
head to don Hiver's. I don't think many people would,
but you're quite right.

Speaker 9 (50:56):
People in the world would like us all to wear hivers.
It's the same even repairing the footpath, it's all health
and safety cones men and hivers footpath opens and general
public walks along that footpath for the next ten years
were just managing their own risk.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah, it does feel like the bubble Boys situation more
and more. And you're quite right about the blowouts on
the costs of the CRL And I want to be
fear here Wilson, whether you could equate some of that
cost blowout to you know, exaggerated health and safety legislation,
Maybe you can. There was some other problems there, but
I do think it is symbolic of why we are

(51:32):
facing these big cost blowouts and why it is so
slow to get these projects under ways, because we've got
health and safety regulations that are onerous and very hard
to push things through without millions of people trying to
sign it off.

Speaker 9 (51:49):
But I agree with you there that's part of the
city rail Lake Boy. We need to open a few
people are in for a real surprise the bootlog. Yes,
I mean we just want stations to the clean and
tidy with tiles. We get in and get out and
get back onto the up above the road. But when
you see what they've done down there is just so
much cost is just oh it's insane.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, certainly is a lot of people would agree with that,
me included Wilson. That cost blowout was huge. But it
is coming and it's going to be ready next year,
so that is something hopefully to get excited about. Appreciate
your phone call. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
the number to call Health and safety regulations? Has it
gone too far? Is it now? Madness and Brook van Walden?

(52:30):
What do you want her to achieve now that she
is consulting around these health and safety regulations? What should
be the outcome there? Really keen to hear your views.
And got a great text about someone who wanted to
put an extractor fan into their bathroom and got a
quote for a large sum of money. I will tell
you more about that very shortly. It is twenty one

(52:52):
past two.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Matt Heathan Tyler Adams afternoons call OH eight hundred eighty
ten eighty on Youth Talk ZB afternoon.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
We are talking about health and safety regulations in this country.
It comes on the back of with some Peter's putting
up a fight on putting on as Hiver's jacket when
they were celebrating the opening or the early launch the
VIP trip for the CRL. It does open to the
public early next year. But is that symbolic of the
problems we have with health and safety in New Zealand.

(53:24):
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. Bruce. Very good afternoon to you.

Speaker 21 (53:29):
Well, aside from the health and safety and all that,
if you have rules on it for something, you stick
to the rules you don't you know, just thinking all
them will froll out them. If you don't like them,
change them. But as a manager, and Peters technically is
one of the managers of the country, he should have
led by example. Now, someone who just makes a decision

(53:53):
like that is really could never be trusted. I'm not
saying it because it's Peter's But I'm saying anyone who
bends the rules, they haven't got that mindset to keep
for the straight and narrow.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Do you think it was petty?

Speaker 21 (54:07):
So I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't like working for me.
And I'm in a position where they sad a lot
of people like that and sometimes to go down and
help them and deliberately do something naughty. They didn't kick
my aside boot of theirs.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yep, not fair enough to But they're there.

Speaker 21 (54:22):
For a reason.

Speaker 15 (54:23):
Yeah, that's that's the See.

Speaker 21 (54:25):
Although they might seem silly in some cases, they are.
It's when they're not and you think you know better
and maybe you don't know better.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Well, that's the other side of the equation, Bruce. When
it comes to health and safety is that it is
there to protect lives and protect people getting injured. So,
and that's the.

Speaker 21 (54:41):
Point I'm making this case is you lead by example.
You do not throw out the rules because everyone's looking
up to you for leadership.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Absolutely, But the same arguement could apply when it comes
to a manager or in this case, a minister who
has some sway over health and safety regulations in conjunction
with Brook van Velden that he does have the power
to influence stupid decisions and stupid rules. So perhaps, I mean,
whether you know whether he was doing that in that

(55:11):
situation or he just didn't want to wear the high
viz all.

Speaker 21 (55:15):
The people around him looking at him.

Speaker 18 (55:17):
That that's I'm saying.

Speaker 21 (55:18):
It's the leadership that he's got the set, and I mean,
I can't say anything wrong with that. So we had
procedures where we had machinery and I mean someone would
put their peddlock on it and put a card on it,
which was, you know, you couldn't get it off of it.
You couldn't get you couldn't get the card off the padlock,
and on the back would be written a reason so
that person could go away or something and be injured

(55:40):
raw you know, couldn't come back to take it off.
You had to then take it off. But there was
a procedure for that.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah. But that's where the balance lies, though, isn't it.
Bruce and I would argue that that balance has gone
too far in the way of overregulating so that nobody
is ever put in any danger. And the fact of
the matter is, with a lot of industries. Risk and
danger is a part of that, and of course we
don't want anybody dying in the work place and we
don't want anyone being injured. But there needs to be

(56:07):
a bit of responsibility that you are, you know, going
into a situation that might not be completely risk free
and that is a reality of living. So it's that
balance between regulations that we can protect people but also
not going overboard with red tape so we can get
things done and have a bit of common sense. No,

(56:30):
I think we're lost lost brains. Oh yes, right, yeah,
thoughts on that one.

Speaker 21 (56:34):
I agree with you, silly. A lot of the rules
are this bloody stupid. They're written for bloody people haven't
got a brain in the head, and got a brain
in the head, they shouldn't be on the side.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
We can agree on that one, Bruce, Thank you very
much for having a yct Sean. How are you doing?

Speaker 22 (56:49):
Hey?

Speaker 19 (56:50):
Hey you going, Tyler?

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Having a good day, very good day, mate, miss my
my my friend over the side. But he I think
all will go well for him. He's under as we speak,
so fingers crossed and it was well overdue.

Speaker 15 (57:02):
Yeah yeah, well I hope he's safe. Ye, This whole
tale thing. Right, Winston Peters is not an employee. He's
there as a guest. He's surrounded by about three people
with high vers who are all brought into the chool aid.
But next week when the public are in there, are

(57:23):
they all going to have to wear high vers?

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Nope, down high down yeah yeah.

Speaker 15 (57:30):
Yeah, So obviously it's not safe this week, but it's
safe next week not to wear it. I mean, Winston's
quite right to say this is ridiculous, and it's a
small point, but when you have HC blanket rules, yes,
you're right, it takes away a lot of thinking. It's
trying to make it's trying to defeat Darwin and keep

(57:53):
the dumb people safe. And by large it works, and
HC does happen, you know, and you know it's got
a point. There is absolutely a point. But you get
these blanket rules which can be pulled back anytime they like.
So here here's a working example of AHSD gone stilly
working on a vessel. I got an electrician on my

(58:14):
team and he wants to stand on a three hundred
mil step still and work on a light bulb in
the gang way. Now he has to have a work
at heights briefing and a harness and clips, which is
ridiculous because there's a lot of overhead pipe there. It's
a vessel, it's a boat. But we're going to do it.

(58:34):
We're going to do HTC for it. And they say
anything over ton of mill height. You've got this at
varies at various places, but this was their rule. So
at my next meeting, we sat down. I said, hey,
you know your department, you had a guy caught working
at height not sake, and I had a black mark

(58:55):
on my name. And I turned around and I wrote
a safety report on people getting into their bunks on
the boat because it's one point seven height to get
into the top bunk and you needed to call a
restaurant harness. So well I pull you out. Yeah, now
you see it.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Yeah, top bunks. So you can.

Speaker 15 (59:14):
Actually say, well, this is ridiculous, we're going to wave it.
Winson dead will say yeah, I'm not an employee. I
mean he didn't say that, but he's not. He's a
guest there. And there's going to be thousands of people
there next week and none of them are where hires.
Are they so slavish adherence to safety is.

Speaker 13 (59:32):
I'm all for it.

Speaker 15 (59:33):
I'm all for walking it back.

Speaker 22 (59:35):
I have.

Speaker 15 (59:37):
As an example, four years ago, my compliance costs my
storage was five hundred dollars a year for some guy
to come into my property and take a GPS fox,
take a paroh on a little tin shed and walk away.
And then in both years it's gone to two thousand,

(59:57):
three hundred dollars every year angry to get my place
certified for safe storage.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
And that's a short exactly. And you talk about the
light bulb situation, and that equates to cost. Right that
if you've got to go through a course and then
get it signed off by a step ladder expert or consultant,
that changing a light bulb that should have taken five
minutes and maybe cost I don't know, thirty five dollars

(01:00:23):
of labor time has ended up costing five hundred dollars
to change the light bulb. And that's where we're at
at the moment. Thank you very much. Headlines are coming
up with Jody, but can you hear from you? Oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to
call now. I mentioned this text just quickly before you
go to the headlines. I mentioned this text before about
an extractor fan. Gid A Tyler. I had to get
an extracted fan put into my bathroom and got a

(01:00:43):
quote for three thousand dollars. As they said they have
to put in scaffolding for a job that takes thirty
minutes with a ladder. What a joke. The scaffolding takes
longer to put up than the actual job. Health and
Safety gone absolutely crazy. I love your views. O eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call
headlines on their way.

Speaker 14 (01:01:04):
You talk said the headlines with blue bubble taxis it's
no trubble with a blue bubble. A committee of former
MPs is holding its first hearing on the pay equity bill,
rush through Parliament under urgency to free money for this
year's budget. The bill was rushed through before budget Day
and in thirty three active claims, particularly affecting women. Victoria

(01:01:26):
University pro Chancellor Marion Street says it's shifted the goalposts
so under valued professions can't be compared with others. A
post mortem on Auckland woman Leanne ray Davis has been
inconclusive and police is still investigating after she was found
unresponsive in a Parnell apartment last Thursday. South Auckland's Airie

(01:01:48):
College is out of lockdown entered this morning. It says
all students are safe and parents shouldn't turn up. A
person's been airlifted to Greymouth Hospital with moderate injuries after
falling near Brunner Mine on the South Island's west coast
just before one pm. Popular Active Web and Dad's Forth

(01:02:09):
New Zealand store. Find out more at NZ Herald Premium.
Now back to Matt Heath and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Thank you very much, Jody. We're talking about health and
safety on the back of Winston Peter's potting up quite
a fight when he was asked to wear some high
vis during a VIP visit to the Cral. It opens
to the public next year and a lot of auckland
Is are very excited about that, and I think there's
some excitement around New Zealand as well for the first
train underground in New Zealand, which is a hell of

(01:02:35):
a thing. But he did refuse for some time after
the CRL Chief Executive Patrick Brocki asked him to wear
that high viz. He eventually did wear it, but he
said after the fact that health and safety has gone
a bit far when we're asking politicians like him to
wear a high viz in a place that would be
considered having not much of a safety risk. So can

(01:02:57):
you get your thoughts on this, but also want to
take it to the area that if we do and
most people texting through and phoning through do accept that
health and safety has gone too far in the direction
of overregulation and being too onerous. So if we all
agree on that and it starts to get rowed back
and we'll see what workplace Health and Safety Minister Brook
van Velden comes out with after the consultation. But does

(01:03:20):
that mean us as workers if we are working in
an industry that does have some risks. That's a part
of it that employees have to accept some of the
liability if they get themselves into a stupid situation. Because
it comes down to, I mean you hear time and
time again this idea of common sense. Common sense does
have to be legislated to a certain extent, But that

(01:03:42):
would mean that employees would have to take some liability
there if they do something stupid that they injure themselves.
Is that where we need to go. Oh, eighte hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number to call Ross.
How you doing okay, Tyler?

Speaker 23 (01:03:56):
Your mate?

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
I'm good mate, long time, no speak, hope you will.

Speaker 6 (01:03:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 23 (01:04:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:04:02):
A couple of things.

Speaker 23 (01:04:03):
First of all, I was kind that side one day
and this guy came in in his company truck, a
big company. He was employee, and he walked halfway across
the car pack which is about fifteen to twenty meters wide,
I suppose. Then he went and he saw of stopped
in a hurry. He went back to his truck, got

(01:04:24):
his hivers out and put dton and walked over the
car back again. And I thought, what the hell's going
on here? And but anyway, that's I think on with Winston.
It has gone too far. I was at a work
site a while ago and all these hi guys were there.

(01:04:45):
Do you know who's stood out the most? The guy
on the blue overalls. Yeah yeah, I didn't notice the others.
I noticed the guy on the blue overalls.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Yep, yeah, wait yeah. I mean, if it's a situation
is as Patrick Brocky said that we need to know
where you are in case of an emergency. I mean,
anybody knows who Winston Peters is. You can spot them
from a mile away.

Speaker 23 (01:05:06):
Right, Well, the other thing is a tool drive for
a long time. And does that mean I should stop
at the Homer Tunnel alway to Milford and say, right, guys,
everyone will put the Slovas on.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Well, that's where we'll get to Ross. I think you know,
if we keep moving in that direction, that's probably not
you know, outside the realm of possibility.

Speaker 23 (01:05:26):
We're going to stop it now then, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Ross. Always good to hear from you, mate, Thank you mate,
see you later. It's a nice text here from Andrew
Hi Tyler. Mister Peters could have made the same point
but still put the vest on and got a much
better reaction all around. If he had done the vest
but said while he did it that this is the
stuff we need to change and the Minister is on it.
Point would still be made without the supposed disregard for rules.

(01:05:50):
Message was okay, method of delivery poor for someone of
Peter's wits and experience. It's from Andrew, which is a
fair point. I mean where the Winston Peters was looking
at the wider picture there with health and safety. I
mean you could argue yes, you could argue no. I
think he didn't want to wear the vest because it
would crinkle his beautiful suit. We know he's a very
stylish man and he didn't want to put on the

(01:06:10):
hard hat because he's got a beautiful head to hear.
But if he had done it in a more polite
way and still made the points that this is health
and safety gone gone mad and this is why the
crl for one has blown out? Would that have been
a better way to do it? Oh eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty is the number to call. It is
twenty to three.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Wow your home of afternoon talk, Mad Heathen Taylor Adams.
Afternoons call Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
They'd be afternoon. It is eighteen to three Ray. How
are you?

Speaker 19 (01:06:42):
Heych I learned not too bad. Just to tell you
about my experience on the building site, please. I was
shriving past his football ground where I knew they were
laying down some of the new artificial turf. Hey, yep,
I'd sort of have a look. You know, it was
a big operation, very expensive turf. So got out and
walked up to the side of the pitch and look
very good. I asked the guy. Could could I have

(01:07:03):
a walk around on it because it was nearly finished.
He say how it should be okay, and he handed
me a hard hat.

Speaker 15 (01:07:08):
Yep.

Speaker 19 (01:07:09):
I said, what's that for? He said, well, you're going
on to a building site.

Speaker 23 (01:07:12):
Mate.

Speaker 19 (01:07:13):
I looked up and there was nothing but sky and
beautiful blue sky.

Speaker 18 (01:07:18):
They don't worry about itself.

Speaker 19 (01:07:19):
We'll leave it. Then I shut off. I just couldn't
go through with a charade and putting a hardhead on
to walk onto a football pitcher.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Yeah, I mean, that is it all, doesn't it?

Speaker 6 (01:07:27):
Ray?

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Like you know, I get where the fellow who told
you to where the hardhead is coming from from liability.
But unless it's a chicken little situation and the sky's falling,
that ain't going to save you from anything. Even if
you slip on the new artificial turf, I don't know
if that's really going to protect your noggin at that stage.
That's right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ray, that is a great story,
Thank you very much. I mean, that is what it
comes down to, isn't it. And I'm not having to

(01:07:49):
go at the boss of CRL because he is just
abiding by the health and safety regulations. It's all about
liability for people like him, and so asking Winston Peters
to put high version. He doesn't give us stuff really
whether the minister looks good or whether he actually puts
that high version apart from the liability side of things.
And that was being broadcast and there were journalists down

(01:08:11):
there and TV cameras, so they had to abide to
the letter of the law. But I'm sure even someone
like Patrick Brocky and I'm putting words in his mouth there,
but I'm sure even someone like that can arguably see
that some of these regulations go a little bit too
far and hold things up and end up costing these
projects a lot more down the down the line. But
love to hear your thoughts on eight hundred and eighty

(01:08:33):
ten eighty geto Val, Oh.

Speaker 22 (01:08:35):
Hi Tyler, I just heard on your radio about these
VIZ things. I'm just wondering, where did they supply him
with steel cap shoes when he's in the train.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
So great question, Val, And I've got no idea. I
love a nice some steel caps as much as the
next person. But you're quite right, there was no talk
of steel caps because my.

Speaker 22 (01:08:55):
Sister had to go out of her office into a
manufacturing part of the business. Johnnie had to step out
with her size fall shoes and she had to wear
steel caps. She had to wear plastic glasses over her
normal glasses, which are strengthened for sport. Oh, but you
can't wear them. So I putting the plastic ones on.
I couldn't see where I was going. Was like the

(01:09:16):
blind leading the blind. So how safe? How safe is that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
Yeah? Well that is I mean that defeats the purpose,
isn't it. If they make a wear glasses which you
can't see, that's gonna create more of a problem.

Speaker 22 (01:09:28):
And the actually the fact that they're plastic and how
much safety in these two dollar plastic glasses compared to
ones that are worth about twelve to thirty hundred dollars
that you have to wear.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Yeah, well there's no safety in that. No, Well, it's
just ticking a box at the end of the day,
isn't it. And yeah, I mean even if you made
the argument vell that, you know, your sister made the
argument that I've got glasses that are reinforced and designed
for sport and nothing's coming through these bad boys, They'll
still make you wear those awful plastic ones because that's
what they have to do under legislation. Thank you very much.

(01:10:00):
If we've got time for Tom, I think we do
get a Tom.

Speaker 6 (01:10:03):
Hello, the tyler talk.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
To me about the Winston Peter's situation with the high.

Speaker 17 (01:10:08):
Yeah, yeah, So it started a two billion three.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
It started off.

Speaker 17 (01:10:15):
Two billion. The project started.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Talking about the CRL yep, yep. I think that was
the price, yep.

Speaker 17 (01:10:21):
And it ended up at.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Oh, another couple yeahs, so another four billion on top
of that.

Speaker 17 (01:10:28):
How can you blow something out that far? I mean
I could handle three or maybe four to push six.
And I think Whennie there was a lot of symbolism
in that, and that was part of the deal. Yeah,
compliance it's over the top. We've lost the plot. We've
gone backwards. The pendulum has gone from one extreme. Back

(01:10:49):
in the turn of the century, you had you had
flywheels flying around with with v belts on it with
no guarding, and now we're protecting the lowest common denominator,
the person that to be honest, some people should be
scooping ice creams. They shouldn't be on the building site.
And that's that's where it's that's what it's coming down to. So, yeah,

(01:11:10):
there was a lot of symbolism being played there. The
boss of the CRL was trying to enforce his authority
and when he wasn't having a bar of it, and
good on when he was standing up to it, because
we have to stand up to this kind of carround.
What was the train going to do? Jump off the rails?
That was the only thing if there was for cliffs
and what have you? Racing around down here? Understandable And

(01:11:32):
I would say when he took a good view, had
a good look, he risks, sessed the risks, no risk here,
What the hell are we doing? And that's that's my
my chomp on it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
Why do you think the CRL blew out so significantly? Tom?
It kind of all about health and safety.

Speaker 17 (01:11:51):
Yeah, no, no, look, I'm over eating it the same
as these guys over But when he did so, Yeah,
when that comes one way, it goes the other way.

Speaker 7 (01:12:00):
I would say.

Speaker 17 (01:12:01):
Also, when you dig underground, you don't know what you're
going to bump into. It's like when you put the
shovel on the ground, he's not too sure as it's
going to be soft ground in a half ground. But
you would think you would think that the project people beforehand,
when they did the assessment, would have would have had
a contingency what have you. And yeah, I look, as

(01:12:22):
I say, I could have handled maybe three and a
half four, but six to be real, And that's why
would you try and attempt to do more projects like
that in this country. We'll just end up poorer and poorer.
So when he's when he's doing a great job on
their front and the top it off. The only guy
I saw that little half decent and a high viz
and he didn't really want to wear it was old

(01:12:43):
Trumpy And when he had the man the rubbish track,
I think that that might have got him across the line.
It similarized again he was down with the common man.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Yeah, yeah, no, good point. I mean, look, creep me
if I'm wrong here, Tom. But some of the costs
blowout for the CRL occurred during COVID, when all these projects,
you know, were shut down by the government at the
time because they thought the risk was too much and
we had social distance and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah,
but you hear what I'm saying is that obviously this

(01:13:14):
project if it was shelved and shut down and they
lost a whole bunch of engineers and experts from around
the globe who had to go back home. Then that
would have had a significant cost to let those guys go,
have to re employ almost getting it going back in
the middle of a project would be incredibly expensive.

Speaker 17 (01:13:32):
Don't disagree, don't disagree, But have they shown those figures.
I had no idea that it was six billion, and
that was announced to us by the host this morning.
So I was like, what I couldn't believe in the
ish and that wasn't forthcoming till he blewed it out
this morning. So here's got to be a yeah, okay,

(01:13:52):
So what would you build into that two billion of
it or one and a half billion for that there's
still a fair bit.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Yeah. Well, I know there's a lot of questions that
have been asked and will still continue to be asked
about the cost blowouts for the CRL, no doubt about it.
But the good news is it's almost there and we'll
be open to the pub next year early next year.
This is a full noise text. I wonder if I
read it out now. No, oh wait, I'll read this
one out after we play some messages. It is ten to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Three, the issues that affect you, and a bit of
fun along the way. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons NEWSTALKSB.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
News Talk said, B it is eight to three. We've
been talking about health and safety. Now here's a text
that just came through pretty full on Tyler, can't believe
you and these other morons. It's a construction site still
in a testing phase underground. If the lights go out
or even not high Verz allows the contractors to see
the visitors on site. Many Kiwi's diet work every year.

(01:14:48):
Very irresponsible, irresponsible attitude on the part of Winston Peters,
like not wearing a seat belt because you think you're
a good driver. Thank you very much for that text.
Passion love it, get a.

Speaker 20 (01:14:58):
Newcom there you go?

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Good? What do you reckon?

Speaker 20 (01:15:03):
I've written a you know there's time and place where
it's like you said, it gets a bit current away
where they helped to safety sometime. But he just don't
approve that they put roles in the tear for him
to be followed in and nothing worth and a big
bloss or a person was sayding like that, you know
to actually try and reject it. You know it doesn't

(01:15:26):
look be good for the rules they're setting and other things,
you know what I mean? And if he wants to
break it himself. It's only a silly little thing. Like
you said, he could have just put the deck and
on and nothing would have been known.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
So you agree with that previous take takes of the seas.
The message might be right, but the way he went
about it was a bit pt. Arguing with the CEO
of CRL.

Speaker 20 (01:15:50):
That's right. And one good example was at one time
I was in my truck looking on work side, of course,
on in our own depot. I looked across the yard
and honestly, it couldn't be more set up. If we'll tired,
This young lady was gonna just under the ladder, and well,
I got up a fresh square in the middle of

(01:16:11):
the head and she didn't have a hardhead on and
I went and she was busy for in a couple
of hours. But it's a bright example of expected you know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
What I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
Yeah, yep, I hear what you're saying. You can thank
you very much for giving me a buzz couple of
texts before we move on to another topic. After three o'clock,
Winston is getting to the stage that he needs to
gain attention for next year's election. That's all this is about.
It wasn't to be found last week when there was
a Ministry of Foreign Affairs matters requiring comment didn't suit

(01:16:44):
his agenda. Then you guys spends your whole life supporting
this flecking government. I think you're looking a bit deep
into this one, dear friend. You guys are talking rubbish.
The Hivers thing is out of control and ridiculous. I'm
worth Winston all the way and this one afternoon. Guys,
we own one of New Zealand's leading luxury lodges. At
this time of the year, we do traffle hunts. How

(01:17:05):
good we had to for a the event was in
the Hawks Bay. Fill out a health and safety risk
assessment form for the truffle hunts and lunch back at
the lodge. Absolutely bloody ridiculous. That's from Gary. And just
a reminder as well that current health and safety rules
are being consulted on as we speak by the Minister

(01:17:27):
of Workplace Relations and Safety, Brook van Velden. So she
said she started undertaking this consultation in July with some
of the industries where the risk is a bit higher
than others. So this is the likes of manufacturers, bakers, millers,
a part of the sector reforms, she said at the time.
The proposed changes aim to ensure standards reflect real world

(01:17:49):
risks and align with international benchmarks. So I think that's
what it comes down to, right, real world risks, and
I think most of the people who are called all
texts absolutely see health and safety has gone too far.
So we've got to get that balance right. And I'm
sure more will come on that before the election, no
doubt about it. Right coming up after three o'clock, let's

(01:18:10):
have a chat about five fo and working in the minds.
A great story and a pretty for long story in
the Herald today about a guy called Lockey Samuel Kiwi.
He was twenty eight years old when he had to
be evacuated from the mines because he told his superintendent
that if he went back to his room, he might
never come out. He effectively had a breakdown from long hours,

(01:18:30):
lack of social connection and a whole raft of other things.
So the Australian minds long being talented as a sure
fire way to set yourself up and earn great money.
But is it more hyped up than reality of working
in a situation like that? Love to hear your experiences
if you've done Fi Fi worked in the minds, new
sport and weather coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Your new home are instateful and entertaining. Talk It's Mattie
and Taylor Adams afternoons on news Talk Sevvy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Very good afternoon, Welcome back into the show. Matt is
off today. He is underg going surgery that he's been
waiting for for a long time, but all going well,
which I am sure it will go well for him.
He will be back tomorrow, So just me in the
hot seat today. But great to have your company. As always,
Let's get into this so five fo or working in
the mines fly in, flyout. It has long been touted

(01:19:22):
as a surefire way to set yourself up the dream
of big easy money, freedom, work hard and party harder.
More so than ever as we're seeing more and more
Kiwi's head off to Ozzie. But is it more hyped
up than the reality of working in a situation like that?
A story in the Herald Today that reports on the
story of a man called Lockey Samuel. He's a Kiwi

(01:19:43):
and he was just twenty eight when he was evacuated
from his work site in Western Australia after telling his
superintendent that if he went back into his room, he
might never come out. So at nineteen he left his
home right here in New Zealand, jumped on a plane,
ended up in Perth and started working for ten years
in a flyout flyout situation where he was at one
point earning two hundred thousand dollars Australia per year between

(01:20:09):
three and five hundred bucks a week. He said in
the story and I quote, you would do a twelve
hour shift, come back to camp, hit the gym, then
head straight to the pub and order as many drinks
as you wanted to. People come to site with their
problems weighing on them, and instead of fixing them and
having hard conversations, they eat, drink and work as much
as you can. He said. No one really talks about

(01:20:30):
how they're feeling, especially the blokes. And for this individual
he worked there for ten years, he was going through
some personal issues himself and then had a breakdown because
of the lack of social connection, the heavy drinking and
the fact that he was working twelve hour days, big days,
so hard work. So love to hear from you if
you've done fifo or worked in the minds it gets

(01:20:53):
hyped up a lot in this country, and many young people,
particularly in this economy, are being told if you want
to set yourself up, head to perth, go and work
in the minds, go do the fi fo and you
will set yourself up for life. Is that rarely the case?
Is it hyped up a little bit too much? That
it is incredibly hard work and it can be for
many people incredibly hard living situations where you were put

(01:21:14):
in a camp and as this gentleman says, you work
a twelve hour shift, you come back to camp, you
hit the gym and then there is nothing else to
do but hit the booze. Oh eight, one hundred eighty
ten eighty is the number to call love to hear
your stories. If you've done five fo, how did it
work out for you? And I imagine if you are
trying to start a family or set yourself up with
a family, that would be incredibly difficult, flying in, working

(01:21:37):
hard than flying back out. But perhaps a lot of
people make it work for themselves. Really keen to hear
your stories? Is it still? Do you think a good
option for young kiwis to go and do that. Maybe
you do dig in for a good two three four years.
It might stress you out. It might not be great
for your mental health, but you're gonna hopefully come away
with a bit of cash. And if you were in
that situation, and I think I would have found myself

(01:22:00):
in this situation good money, but I think I just
would have pissed it all away on booze. That's reality
when you're young eighteen nineteen twenty and you're surrounded by
mostly a lot of other younger, younger lads and all
that there is to do on a weekend is to
spend your money at the local pub. I can see
how people would fall into that trap. So really keen

(01:22:20):
to have a chat with you? Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty is the number to call the phones
of lit Up if you want to send a text
nine two ninety two and my email Tyler at Newstalk
ZB dot co dot nz. Yet it is ten past
three on news Talk ZB Afternoon to you. It's thirteen
past three and we're talking about five fo workover in Australia,
fly in, fly out Australian mining jobs a story in

(01:22:41):
the Herald today. But a young Kiwek called Lockey Samuel.
He worked in the mines for ten years fly and
fly out and effectively had a breakdown. He said it
was long days and there was bugger all to do
apart from drink a lots, and he was dealing with
some personal stuff. And he says that is not uncommon
in the mining situation, that there's a lot of young
men who go there for big money, but they're dealing

(01:23:02):
with some personal issues and the lack of connection and
the social isolation and the heavy drinking can destroy a
lot of people that get into that profession. So love
to hear from you if you've done firefox work? How
hard was it and is it still a good option
for young kiwis, particularly in this economy, who were looking
to earn some good coin O one hundred and eighty
ten eighties and number to call, Get a mark, Hey,

(01:23:25):
geta tyler.

Speaker 6 (01:23:25):
How's the going mate?

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
Very good? So you did three years of firefox work.

Speaker 18 (01:23:29):
Did you?

Speaker 4 (01:23:31):
I did?

Speaker 10 (01:23:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (01:23:31):
From that twenty ten, I worked with Rio Tinto for
about two and a half years and then I went
to Chinese mindset of Pacific in Character and wa there.
So I know quite a bit about it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
Yeah, So how did you first get into it? Were
you quite a young fellow when you first started the
fire fo.

Speaker 12 (01:23:48):
Yeah, it was pretty much to just finish my boarding
apprenticeship and look in Brisbane. The ways went too high
and just talking to a mate on the weekend hit
a sort of a leader up there. So I just
got in touch with the firm out there and pretty
much packed the bags and flew to person that was
up for about three years. So just working as a carpenter.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Yeah, right, And so I don't know if you've read
this story, but just hearing a little bit about what
happened to this young fella. Ten years is a long time,
but it does seem like, Yeah, it does seem like
incredibly incredibly hard work, but not just the hard work
aspect mark that social isolation must take its toll after
a while.

Speaker 4 (01:24:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:24:27):
Absolutely. Where like you said, you do twelve hour day,
SE's starting in the dark, so you don't get an
appreciation about holding themotic kicks during the day. When you
do your twelve hour day, you go back to what's
called a donga, which we used to call the presents out.
It's not just the TV in a bed. Yeah, and literally,
if you've got a good you get a different money
every sling. So I was doing four and one, so

(01:24:48):
four weeks on, one week off when they actually nickname
that the silicide Ship because it is quite it's quite
devastating on the young guys that are dealing quite a
bit of work. I do want to say, look the
guy that there's no one taking any drugs out there,
because you pretty much get tested on your way in
and as you leave, and then just mandatory every MUK.
That's really the drink that you get stuck into. And

(01:25:11):
the trip was five four, five ten fourteen, and there's
bread testers all around the camp. See your bread, test
yourself and check out you're going. But generally, if you're
not going to the gym, which was the drive mess,
you'd go the weakness, which was the bar, and that
was generally where most guys went because it's forty plus
degrees out there. You've just done twelve hours on a
grinder or something and you just want to have a beer.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can imagine that.

Speaker 7 (01:25:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
So what sort of money were you on in the end? Mark?
Are we closing in on what this young fellow was doing?
Two hundred k?

Speaker 22 (01:25:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (01:25:42):
Year I was on, Yeah, I was on about two
twenty in the end. I actually I was out there,
just a backstore of me real quickly, I was there
for a means to an end sort of thing. Night
a house on the Gold Coast which I lost a
bit of money on, so I had to pay that off,
and I managed to pay that off for seven months,
was about sixty grand. And then I actually managed to
save a depositive by an Auckland, so we bought our

(01:26:02):
first home when I came back after three years. So
it was just the means beweend. I didn't have any
kids the time, but decently couldn't do that now. It's
a single man's game for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Yeah, So what would be It sounds like you did
it right, Mark, that you went over there with the
aim and mind you save as much as possible and
get yourself on the property ladder and then come back
here to New Zealand. I imagine for a lot of
the guys that you were working along that it might
have been the strategy. But it quickly went by the
wayside when you know they're facing that isolation and they've

(01:26:33):
got all this money coming in and the idea of
buying toys and trips and all the rest of it
just went to the head.

Speaker 12 (01:26:40):
You definitely did that. Bought the dirt bike and the
ranger waiting for move when I got home, and a
lot of the other guys, see I met my part house,
went through my time out of there, so it was
kind of ticking clocks. You wanted to have kids settled down,
so I was always coming back. But a couple of
young guys they because you're getting a week off, you've
got a ton of money in the bank, they just
actually just go to underneath. They go to Barley for

(01:27:01):
the week off and then come back. Yeah, so some
guys made it work for them. It's a real mental
games kine of overwhelming. Overwhelming to imagine when you start
a job, you're there for a month, four weeks and
you get one Sunday off in that four weeks and
then that's so it's kind of hard to put them
in the despect that you could have four months work

(01:27:22):
every single day forty plus degree. So a lot of
guys picked up little things like one guy was learning
the guitar, one guy was.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
Learned to edit.

Speaker 12 (01:27:31):
There were a couple that was truly like shortchank the emptine.
It was like the partment operates out of one of
the Dongers.

Speaker 5 (01:27:38):
It was.

Speaker 12 (01:27:39):
It's it's cold of how they kept some stories now,
but it's definitely for me as it means going end.
But this young gentleman doing ten years, that's that's a fairy,
really good slob.

Speaker 6 (01:27:49):
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
Yeah, did you ever watch the movie with Liam Nissan
and it called The Gray?

Speaker 12 (01:27:56):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
Yeah, I mean having a snow Yeah, yeah, So it's
a it's a it's an oil refinery and they you know,
they jet and all these pretty hard fellas who are
working in the the oil refinery and he's there as
a hunter to keep the wolves at bay. But the
scene at the start where he's dealing with, you know
a bit of depression in his life and then he
goes to the bar and then scraps and heavy drinking.

(01:28:18):
Sometimes that's you know, I get that picture of that
situation in the minds. Is that is that kind of
a little bit what it's like that they're quite hard
individuals that associated with that work.

Speaker 12 (01:28:30):
Definitely a lot of guys out there hiding from stuff,
for sure. Absolutely.

Speaker 17 (01:28:34):
And look I.

Speaker 12 (01:28:35):
Mentioned that one Sunday you get off in that four
week period or that one Sunday camp is absolutely diabolical.

Speaker 15 (01:28:42):
It's just guys.

Speaker 12 (01:28:43):
You guys are going getting on the drink. It's actually amazing.
Conflict is they've got full gym, swimming pools, big movie theaters,
bars with Paul tables. Anytime the Transphasent racing games came on,
it's always pretty big and plenty of key.

Speaker 6 (01:28:57):
We see.

Speaker 12 (01:28:57):
Didn't feel like you're far away from.

Speaker 11 (01:28:59):
New Zealand, that's for sure.

Speaker 12 (01:29:00):
Yeah, but no, definitely on that Sunday would absolutely diabolical
to about six pm and then you'd be able to
hear a pin drop that everyone has to be zeros
before they start their swing the next day, so you've
not allowed your time to basically becomes over again before
we go to work.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
It's a good inside mark and if you had your time,
you'd do.

Speaker 12 (01:29:18):
It again, absolutely mate. I'll tell my boys if you
can do it just one or two years, just bank it,
get your first home. You know, I wouldn't have been
able to do it without it, so I'd recommend it
for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Yeah, love it. Nice to chat with you, Thank you
very much. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've
done five fo or work in the mines, how was it?
Where were you in a similar situation? To Mark that
you had in your mind that you were going to
put this money away and you stayed off the booze
and maybe you didn't buy so many toys and made
it work or was it incredibly incredibly difficult. Love to
hear your thoughts. I eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
is a number to call, going to get to Steve.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
Next Well, Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh, eight
hundred eighty ten eighty on Youth Talk, z'd be afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
We're talking about working in the Australia minds or fly
in and fly out work. A story in the Herald
today but a young man who did it for ten
years and sadly he had a bit of a breakdown.
The quote was that at twenty eight years old, he
had to be evacuated from his work site in Western
Australia after telling his boss that if he went back
into his room he might never come out. So how
hard is it? A lot of young kiwis, particularly now

(01:30:22):
in this economic climate, are looking to do fire for
or austral Australian mining work. So love to hear your
experiences of one hundred and eighty ten eighty get a Steve,
how are you going, good mate? So you did it
for a few years.

Speaker 13 (01:30:35):
I did it for two years, about ten years ago
on a gas pipeline out the back of Queensland and
it was hard work.

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
Yeah, and so well yeah you go mate.

Speaker 12 (01:30:46):
Sorry.

Speaker 13 (01:30:46):
I was driving earth moving machinery and we worked twelve
our days, twelve to thirteen our days, twenty eight days
on nine days off japers.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
That's full grind.

Speaker 13 (01:30:59):
Yeah, and within nine days off, two of that was
traveling to and from the job.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
Would they still do that, Steve? I mean that twenty
eight days on a nine days days off, that is
that's punishing for anybody. You know that they must have
tuned through the workers.

Speaker 13 (01:31:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (01:31:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:31:16):
The turnover was high because a lot of people didn't
cope with it with their mental health. And we lived
in these dongas and you've got a king size single bed,
a desk, a TV, a small fridge and a little
tiny bathroom. It was like a forty foot container with
four rooms in it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
So effectively, all you're doing for those twenty eight days
is going to work, go home, have some dinner, go
to sleep, wake up, do it all again.

Speaker 18 (01:31:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:31:42):
My day started at four point thirty in the morning
where I'd leave my dollar. I would go and get
my breakfast and pack my pack lunch, and then I
would go to the crew bus around a quarter to six,
and then you would travel to your machine. They would
drop your or fired up and you're in that machine
for twelve hours far out.

Speaker 2 (01:32:03):
That is hard graft. And what was the pay, like,
I imagine the pay would have been pretty good?

Speaker 13 (01:32:08):
Yeah, I was on about two hundred and fifty thousand
Australian dollars a year. I think I took home three thousand,
four hundred Australian every week, yep, and I paid about
two thousand dollars in tax.

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
Good money. Did you manage to save quite a chunk
of that at the end of two years.

Speaker 13 (01:32:27):
Yeah, I did. I had enough money at the I
saved around two hundred and fifty thousand dollars Australian and
two years. I didn't spend a lot. I made a
rule that I would not drink on my twenty eight
days on. So we would get back to the camp
around six o'clock six thirty at night. I would have
a shower, eat my lunch, eat my dinner, and I'd

(01:32:49):
be in bed by hal about seven.

Speaker 2 (01:32:52):
Exhaust I pet made pet. I'm tired listening to that
sort of work schedule. So is that the thinking you're
going to go when with Steve that if you're a
young fellow looking to get into that what you did, Yeah,
the money is fantastic, but you're there for the grind.
That's all you're doing. If you're thinking you're going to
already hard and all the rest of it, yet you're
going into the wrong work.

Speaker 13 (01:33:12):
I used to sit, like in our camps. We had camps,
and they would build these camps for eight hundred men yep,
and they have a camp every hundred ks, and they'd
move it, move that camp up further. And I would
sit in my dollar at nighttime listening to people arguing
down down the corridors had like a path between them, yep,

(01:33:37):
arguing with their partners. That just they just were their
partners were not coping with their husband's boyfriends whatever, being away.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Yeah, so on the phone, I think he meant so
the partners weren't living on site. That was on the
phone having those conversations.

Speaker 13 (01:33:53):
Yeah, fok stations.

Speaker 15 (01:33:54):
Yeah. Yeah, it is hard work.

Speaker 13 (01:33:57):
It's a young man's job. I was around fifty years
old when I took it on and I had a
friend that rang me to ask I've given two years
because I was so short of operators.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
Yeah, I mean, as you say, yeah, sorry, you go, mate,
finish that.

Speaker 13 (01:34:11):
And then towards the end of the job job, I
knew where we're coming to the end. I said to
him one day, I want to be made redundant of
rather Australians keep their jobs than me. And two days
later I was on a plane back to New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
Cheaper, I mean absolute hard graft. As you say, make
the money that is that is good money in anyone's eyes,
but that is that is hard yack at twenty eight
days on and nine days off and as you say,
two days traveling. So I mean that's what when we
were talking about this story, I thought, and looking at
this young guy's experience as well, it is nigh on
impossible if you want to If you do that for
ten years and you want to try and start a

(01:34:45):
family or set up that side of your life, that
feels incredibly difficult, if not nigh on impossible.

Speaker 13 (01:34:53):
Yeah, it's hard work, mate, Yeah, and I believe now
the money's even less than what I was getting paid.
I still have a friend over there doing it, and
he's saying the money's not like it used to be,
and the conditions are not like they used to be.

Speaker 6 (01:35:08):
Right.

Speaker 13 (01:35:09):
We didn't pay for food, we didn't pay for clothing,
we didn't pay for He is too and from New Zealand. Yeah,
we didn't pay for nothing. And then even on our
break we got paid.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
And what did you do with the cash, Steve?

Speaker 13 (01:35:23):
I bought a rental place while nice, So that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I was pretty much already set up. But I just, yeah,
we didn't need the money, and I would only take
spend two grand five hundred bucks of that a week week,
which I transferred to Monday's on bank account when I left.
I just support a whole lot home.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
Yeah, Steve, thank you very much for giving me a call.
Far out twenty eight days on, nine days off and
it sounded like hard yak at twelve thirty hourdays text
to here, Hi, Tyler, I've been doing three weeks on
and off in oil and gas for fourteen years. You
can't drink while it worked. For three weeks, work seven
days a week, usually thirteen plus hours on forty four

(01:36:04):
got a house paid off in Auckland, saving for a batch,
getting paid three times I could get working in Auckland.
Recommend it to any young fellow that is keen and
can keep it together. Great text though, one hundred and
eighty ten eighty is a number to call if you've
done the Minds, or indeed if you're currently working in
the Minds and doing five Fox love to hear from you.
Headlines with Jody coming up, it's twenty nine past three.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
Youse talks.

Speaker 14 (01:36:27):
There'd be headlines with blue bubble taxis. It's no trouble
with the Blue bubble. Our Foreign Affairs minister says New
Zealand's considering formally joining countries recognizing a Palestinian state. He
says Cabinet will make a formal decision on when and
how next month before he travels to the UN Leader's
Week in New York. Australia is just announced it will

(01:36:49):
recognize an independent Palestinian state at the UN in September.
Concern people don't understand pay equity and the impacts of inequity,
which are worse for women. A People Select committee is
looking into the government canceling claims aiming to make pay
gender free more professions for Maer Labor leader Phil Goffs

(01:37:11):
had to spend one hundred and sixty thousand dollars fixing
his Clevedend rental property which was used as a gang
meth lab. The police helicopter and a dog have helped
arrest two men in Auckland overnight after a Mount Albert
resident was disturbed by a creaking floorboard before seeing the
silhouette of a man who fled well on. The Nui

(01:37:32):
Council and the Government are jointly paying for a new
taxiway for the city's airport. Woman shares how she discovered
her partner's affair while her sister was dying. See the
story at enzed Harold Premium. Back to Matt Heath and
Tyler Adams.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
Thank you very much, Jody. We're talking about five foe
or working in the Australian mines fivefox, fly in fly out.
It's long been tilted as a great way to set
yourself up in life for many Kiwis. With the economy
the way its are looking at the idea of going
to the Australian mines in five fox. But there was
a story in the Herald about a young Kiwi guy
who worked in the mines for ten years, but it

(01:38:08):
is hard, hard yacker for him and he ended up
having a breakdown at the age of twenty eight and
had to be evacuated out of there. So I love
to hear your experiences. I eight hundred and eighty teen
eighty is it still a good way to set yourself up?
And just how how much hard yack it is it?
O eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
I've got a good email here as well, which I'll
get to very shortly. But Warren, how are you this afternoon?

Speaker 3 (01:38:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Good days, and talk to me about five fo So
you you did quite a few years working in the minds.

Speaker 9 (01:38:36):
Was it?

Speaker 18 (01:38:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:38:38):
I did seventeen years and jeepers. I went over when
I was fifty with a partner and we yeah, good job,
good douys, good place to where it.

Speaker 11 (01:38:50):
Was ticking all the boxes.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
So seventeen years is a long stint and a job
like that, Warren, what were the hours like for you?

Speaker 13 (01:38:58):
Are?

Speaker 6 (01:38:58):
We will we be just to give you an idea
of my day. We'll be starting at four o'clock in
the morning. Get up, go and grab your breakfast.

Speaker 18 (01:39:06):
Grab your lunch on the pas.

Speaker 6 (01:39:10):
Be on the basset sort of ha ass for what
maybe five o'clock, decided six o'clock jumping the machine, twelve
and a half hour day be the came at six thirty.
Then lunch go, sorry, go your lunch for the next day,
grab some dinner the gym maybe for half an hour

(01:39:32):
an hour and then being bid by probably serving seven thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
It's a big day.

Speaker 5 (01:39:38):
And so.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Yeah, so how long would you work consecutively and how
much time would you.

Speaker 6 (01:39:44):
Have on when I first started, we were doing two
weeks they stilling one So this is this is this
is mining iron ore and it was happened to til Bra.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Yeah, two weeks on, one week off. And whereabouts were
you living or where was your your partner and your
family living.

Speaker 6 (01:40:01):
No, they were down in Bandbary, Yeah, with flying out
of pier.

Speaker 2 (01:40:07):
So how long would you get with the with the family.
So you've got two weeks and then the week off
and four days one week with the family, right, because
it wasn't too far away, literally.

Speaker 6 (01:40:18):
Seven you had seven seven even time roster and then
I did about five years that just because you're doing better.
Bet you're doing one week of days and then a
one week of nights and you progress that week off,
you would be pretty naked and you would you would
need that week to recover. And then the opportunity came
up for a week on, week off roster and I

(01:40:39):
carried on with that for the next what maybe twelve years,
and that was that was a really good roster. I mean,
obviously not as much money, but it's much easier to
do in your recovery times, much better. So you work
a week, have a week off, then you go and
do your nights and then have a week off.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
Obviously you would have set yourself and your family up
very well doing that, Warren, and good on you, But
was there a part of you, even with the week
on and week off, that you thought, I just want
more time with my family or I want to look
at doing something else where. I can you know, uh,
not have to take a week off from seeing the
family at a time.

Speaker 6 (01:41:16):
Yeah, and saying that like we had, we'd get four
weeks off, like four weeks an you'll leave, so you
back to back there and you take one week off
and you're tacking three weeks off and generally you're being
paid that as well. While you've got your time off.
But well for us that was we didn't have any
any responsibilities as far as kids go, they were all

(01:41:37):
off our hands. We just went over there for a
different experience and pop up the bank basically m and
what's yeah, we only went We're only going to go
there for a year, just to mark about and have
a change of scenery. Basically I was been building trade.
I just want to do something completely different. Opportunity arose

(01:41:57):
and we ended up being the CD years, so it
wasn't all bad.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Yeah, it sounds like it worked out well because of
the money you were getting in. Did that allow you
your partner wife to stay at home and do that
sort of things, you know, look after the kids or
did she have to work as well?

Speaker 16 (01:42:11):
No, well she was.

Speaker 6 (01:42:13):
She was working as well and we went never have
kids on her hands at that stage. They're all doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
But if they were all getting the bear Yeah, man,
seventeen years and you're finished now, So why did you
give it up?

Speaker 6 (01:42:27):
Time to retire? I'm sixty five in there. The idea
was to come well, we were in Australian and the
idea was to come back to Livenues and probably sure
the way building cloths are in the zeeland at the
moment and the way you get get through counsel and
what have you. We probably should have done another three years, hopefully.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
Well seventeen years. As you know that sort of shift, Warren,
it's a it's a hell of an innings as they say, mate,
and you get wigging, a lot of techs and phone
calls coming in saying it's you know, young man's game
that you get in, you do it for five years,
put your head down and then get out. But you've
you've beaten them.

Speaker 6 (01:43:02):
On that, absolutely got.

Speaker 24 (01:43:05):
There's a lot of people.

Speaker 6 (01:43:06):
I mean when went like the crew that we had,
there were all sorts of people, real cross section of ages,
genders and cultures, all sorts of people as a real
mixed bag. And I mean I mean the accountant, their lawyers,
policemen know, just all sorts of right across the board.

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
Interesting to hear. So so lawyers, I mean were they
they weren't operating as a lawyer, right, They obviously had
a law degree and they came to the minds because
they wanted something a bit different.

Speaker 6 (01:43:39):
Absolutely, yeah, they had enough of what they were doing.
I mean a lot of people you know for me,
I've been in the building game for twenty seven years,
and a lot of these guys and this was in
the same same situation. You know, they've been doing the
same thing for jeen twenty thirty years sort of thing teaching.
They just want a complete change basically.

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
And yeah, fascinating life, Warren in seventeen years, take my
head off to you. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty is the number to call when we come back.
We're going to have a chattoo guy called Sebastian and
he started working five fo and twenty eleven, but can
understand some of the mental strain that's involved in that.
So we're gonna have a check to them. Coming up.

(01:44:17):
It is twenty wonder four.

Speaker 1 (01:44:20):
The issues that affect you and a bit of fun
along the way. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons news talks.

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
They'd be It is eighteen to four, Sebastian, how are
you this afternoon?

Speaker 7 (01:44:31):
Good day?

Speaker 22 (01:44:31):
Tyler?

Speaker 6 (01:44:32):
How are you very good?

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
To chat with you?

Speaker 6 (01:44:34):
Mate?

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
So you started five four and twenty eleven.

Speaker 6 (01:44:36):
Is that right? I did? I did?

Speaker 7 (01:44:38):
I tagged along with a friend, got in contact with
he just moved over to Perth to try and pursue
a career in fivefo and he said, well, why don't
I give it a go, And I thought, yeah, why not.
I spoke to my wife and we decided that we
will try our best to make them to make it

(01:44:59):
a mutual agreement and try and make sure that we
don't get into the same situations that other couples do.
And at the time, daughter just just been born, so
I would have left when she was maybe six seven
months old and my son would have been six and

(01:45:19):
we said, look, this is probably probably a good way
to get ahead. And I just winged it. I just
took a punt, flew up to Perth, stayed with the
friend with this friend of mine, his girlfriend was living
in Perth, and it took me about five weeks just
to get my name out there and started with electrical.

(01:45:40):
I'm electrician by trade, so I started with the electrical
construction company. And yeah, my first st and was nine
weeks away from home. That was just factoring in, you know,
the travel, the travel time up and just getting my
name out there, getting a job. And our original swings

(01:46:00):
back in twenty eleven was four weeks on, one week
off right and I believe they've I believe they've canned
that just due to the mental health issues I'm not doing.
I'm not in fifo anymore. But yeah, back then, it
was four weeks on, one week off, and no matter
how hard you tried to be resilient and retain your

(01:46:25):
mental health, it took a punt.

Speaker 4 (01:46:27):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:46:27):
I went up with the idea that there'd be no
drinking or whatsoever. But I'll tell you what, when you
spend seventy five percent of your month with different people,
they sort of become your family, and you know, when
you come back home, you kind of just feel out
of place. Honestly, like it took a toll on our relationship.

(01:46:52):
It nearly cost our marriage. But we were you know,
we were just decided, look, look we just need to
get back to the basics of why we actually doing this.
And yeah, I worked my way up. Within six months,
I was electrical supervisor, doing electrical commissioning and so sort
of handing over the handing over the final construction project

(01:47:14):
to the client for energization. And it's very interesting, very
long days, a lot of paperwork. I'd done this for
seven years, so on and off for seven years. Not
seven years solid. I would normally do around nine to
ten months of a year on a project and then

(01:47:35):
generally either take the summers off or whenever the project
finished and the next one that was going to kick off,
I would generally take that time off just due to
the fact that you'd earned enough money and you'd you
were able to sort of just take some time out.
But yeah, on my last on my last project, which

(01:47:56):
was the Gina Reinhardt's Iron Ore facility, roy Hill, I
was electrical superintendent there and my day rate was one thousand,
two hundred and sixty.

Speaker 6 (01:48:08):
I was paying around.

Speaker 7 (01:48:10):
Four and a half thousand dollars tax a week.

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
Yeah, I mean that's huge money, isn't it by anyone's students?

Speaker 7 (01:48:17):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely so, I.

Speaker 2 (01:48:20):
Mean it sounds I mean clearly it's a very intense
job and a way to operate, particularly for seven years.
Whenn't it those strains in your relationship that you talked about, Sebastian,
was that because of the time that you had away.

Speaker 7 (01:48:35):
Absolutely, Yeah, you just just you just became dysfunctional at home.
Because I mean so the swings sort of the roster
we call it swings, as you know, but we would
it ended up being a three on one off and

(01:48:55):
I was doing three weeks away one week off, and
so in the one week off that was only seven days,
seven and a half days, and I was traveling back
from the Pilboro, so flying from the job site either
Newman or port Edlund or roy Hill wherever I was
back to Perth, catching the red eye back home, and

(01:49:16):
then you know, i'd only i'd only be in Auckland.
I'd only land at about one thirty and get home
by about two thirty if I was lucky. So that
was there was a whole day and a half gone,
and then traveling back would be the same story. I'd
rarely only get five and a half days at home.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
So it's a mess of transition, kind of psyche, isn't it?

Speaker 4 (01:49:39):
It is?

Speaker 7 (01:49:39):
It is, And you can imagine like you're coming home
and the list of things that are broken and need repaired,
and you know people that need attention. You do it
all and then you go away for three weeks and
you come back and you do it all over again.
You know, it's like groundog day. And then you know
you can see how the fights breakout and you know
the aggravation because you're not there and and you know,

(01:50:02):
it's just just snowballs, and I can I can totally
relate to this youngster like this, and the previous caller
as well that we was saying. You know that, you know,
you get all sorts of different people work in there,
but there is one thing that people need to go with,
and it's the mindset of why you're doing this. If
you're just doing this nearly willy, you won't last. You'll

(01:50:25):
either you'll either just become an alcoholic or your blow shifts,
or you know, you totally lose the plot. If you
don't know why you are there, then you're going to struggle.
You have to go with the right mindset, either between
yourself and your partner or if you're a youngster, you've
got to go with the mindset of saying, I'm only

(01:50:45):
spending say, ten percent of my wages, and you raally
got nothing to spend it on other than boots because
every and obviously you know your personal hygiene products or
whatever you want to buy and take with but raally
you don't have any costs whatsoever. Anyone that complains about
the facilities really needs a head check. Honestly, Tyler like

(01:51:08):
some of the facilities there are like resort style.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
The food.

Speaker 7 (01:51:14):
You cannot complain about the food because they cater for
everyone's needs. The gyms are amazing, the pools are amazing. Yes,
the dogs are a bit tight, but they've started realizing
that FIFO is there to stay and they are starting
to accommodate for husband wife situations. Actually, I shared something

(01:51:36):
with my wife the other day where I said, this
is for us because we've you know, this is like
our kids are. My daughter's got three or four years
left to school, and I said to this, this is
what we should go. And do you know they've got
a camp. It's totally catered for husband and wife to
work together. So, you know, can you imagine the if
you're earning four hundred thousand dollars a year between the

(01:51:58):
two of you. You know, it's a quick means to
an end, Isn't it absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:52:02):
A great way to set yourself up. But I can
you know, I can understand what you're saying. They're on
the coming back to civilian line, Sebastian. I mean, you're
here and this will sound try but it's not tright.
I think there's a real, you know, similarity here of
soldiers who get back into civilian life, you know that
culture shock and the loss of organization and the loss
of focus. If you're undertaking what you were doing for

(01:52:25):
twelve hours a day for four weeks at a time,
and then you have a week off, it's very you know,
there would be a similar psychological change up then how
soldiers deal with it when they compact to civilian.

Speaker 7 (01:52:35):
Life absolutely completely. And there would be some days like
getting to my fourth fifth day, my last couple of
days at home, and I'd start talking about, you know,
the guys there and what have we been doing and
you know, who have been mingling with and you know,
so you can see how that could cause anger and frustration.
It's like, well, why are you are you not really

(01:52:55):
interested in being here? You know, like why are you
not why are you not communicating with us? And you know,
asking about things that have been going on here? And
so you can see how being away that long, they
really just become your family and you know, your social life. Yeah,
so you've, yeah, you've got to retain the thought of

(01:53:17):
why you there and not let it get away on you.
And it's very difficult. Even I struggled with it a lot.
I went with the idea that I you know, every
time I started a new job, said there'd be no
drinking and whatever, and just the pressure, especially on your
rostered days off, you know, your fourteenth day off to
go out and you just want to let loose because
you've just had such an intense week or two. Especially

(01:53:40):
in the construction industry. You know, it's so high paced,
and I'm sure there's a thousand guys out there that
can relate exactly to what I'm saying is, you know,
the pace of the jobs are just intense, especially when
it comes to handing over the job to the client.

Speaker 2 (01:53:56):
Yeah, Sebastian, that was a hell of an insight, and
thank you very much for giving us a buzz beck
and a mow. With a couple more calls, It is
nine to four, the big stories.

Speaker 1 (01:54:06):
The big issues, big trends and everything in between. Man
Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons News Talk.

Speaker 2 (01:54:15):
News Talks. The better is six to four, Chris, thanks
for hanging on, mate.

Speaker 20 (01:54:19):
That's right, So you just taking me back, Yeah, I
bet it is.

Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
I mean, I mean it sounds like it's changed to
fear whack in the last few years. Chris but you
did two years.

Speaker 24 (01:54:30):
Yeah, in ninety five six, I think I was go
ahead to front to play rugby, so I wanted to
pass money. That was the ugut professional. They wouldn't reiter
foreign players, so I couldn't get in. My brother and
I stayed on in the mind and we started out
on drill wiggs. That was a baptism and fire working
on those things and we did. There was a week sorry,

(01:54:53):
a month on the week off, and then we ended
both ended up in the camp. We ended up working together,
which was great at a place called me at Keith
and we did seven weeks on one week off.

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
You know.

Speaker 24 (01:55:04):
That's what shift changes through it working for pitty in
our days and you lost the day off every fortnight
for me because my brother didn't do night shift and
I had to get my body clock around the other
way to go on to night shift that night. But
I was still the bottom of the rung and the workshop,
the trade as system ended up a tyfet on the

(01:55:26):
track right, So the.

Speaker 2 (01:55:28):
Night shift, that night shift would have been the hardest shift.

Speaker 17 (01:55:30):
Was it, Chris?

Speaker 6 (01:55:32):
That was yeah? Yeah, that the that was it was.

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 24 (01:55:37):
We hit three o'clock in the morning and the bodies
just wanting to shut down. And that was and then
of course you're on the you know, on the you
finished night shift, on your completion of your seven weeks,
and then you'd have to stay up and get on
a plane to go making the person.

Speaker 2 (01:55:53):
So it's a tough life. So yeah, so two years
and yeah, and you'd had enough by that stage, but
you managed to put some money away.

Speaker 24 (01:56:00):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, and my own first time
at twenty eight and that we I reckon. I always
told people, I reckon, I know what it's like to
get out of present, and I reckon, I know what
it's like to go back to Christins.

Speaker 2 (01:56:12):
Yeah, nicely, said Chris. Good to finish with that call,
Thank you very much. So, by the sounds of it,
absolutely well worth it if you're a mid hid game, right,
but it can be very tough. But according to a
lot of people, it has changed quite a lot now
where they do have our counselors on site. They're allowing
families into it. So if you've got a son or

(01:56:34):
daughter thinking about it, worth a shot. Hey, it's great
monic money. Two hundred and fifty k a year is
nothing to be sniffed at. Absolutely right, Thank you very
much for today. Really enjoyed those conversations. Thank you to
everyone who called and text. Matt's will hopefully be back
with me tomorrow for Tuesday. A little bit of working
class Man from Jimmy Barnes to go out with. We've

(01:56:56):
been chatting to a lot of people who were working
class men and women. Love today. We'll see you again tomorrow,
said B.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
For more from News Talk, said B. Listen live on air,
online and keep our shows with you wherever you go
with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.

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