August 21, 2025 • 11 mins
The government has purchased 5 new Seahawk helicopters and 2 Airbus A321 XLRs, costing a total of $2.7billion.
These will replace the Defence Force's ageing Sea-sprites and Boeing 757s, that have broken down numerous times.
Deputy Prime Minister David Seymour says that it’s a much-needed upgrade to NZ’s Defence Force.
‘The 757s were bought secondhand, in 1993 when I personally was at primary school.’
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We are discussing the government's purchase of five new Seahawk
helicopters and two Airbus A three twenty one x l
r's The ACT Party long campaigned for more investment in
our defense force, and we are now joined by ACT
Party leader and Deputy Prime Minister David Seymour David Good Afternoon,
Hey mass, Hey Tyler.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
David, So, what specific threats is New Zealand facing that
justify spending two point seven billion on new aircraft?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
And shoppers, well, take them one at a time. With
the aircraft, most countries have some ability to move people
at short notice, whether the troops, humanitarian aid, diplomats going
on missions to promote business or whatever. Basically every Western
country has some sort of planes, often much poorer countries
(01:06):
than us. Their leaders seem to bought much nicer planes
than we have. Anyhow, we are getting a pretty good
deal here. The seven five sevens were bought second hand,
I think in nineteen ninety three when I personally was
at primary school. They've kept them flying somehow, and that's
a big tribute to the engineers at the New Zealand
(01:27):
Air Force who can keep anything going. And yet those
planes were relatively modern technology compared with the old Sea
sprite helicopters. We had five of those, and the oldest
one hasn't actually seen action since the Korean War. It
was literally used in Korea and somehow the engineers at
(01:51):
the Defense Force have kept it flying until now. So
we're now going to replace those and that's where the
idea of the threat comes in. The fact is that
we now have a contested space in the Pacific. You've
seen recently the Chinese fire and missile which landed near
(02:11):
French Polynesia. You've seen freedom of navigation. I guess they'd
call it powerful flotillas of Chinese warships through the Tasman
Sea recently, and you just don't know what are the
challenges you might face as people start to compete over
(02:32):
minerals on the seabed around fishing grounds. The New Zealand's
Defense Force needs the ability to patrol our exclusive economic
zone and act as a deterrent to people who would
come and take things that are legally belonging to New Zealanders.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
It's crazy isn't it that whole Korean War thing that's
hawkeye and honeycut times that it's pretty insane. Is this
US procurement route about more than defense though? Is there
a New Zealand USA economic relations aspect to it?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
There's no. I mean, obviously it's good to be close
to our friends in the world, But I can honestly
say I haven't been directly directly involved, but I've been
a member of cabinet that's considered the different papers. In fact,
I chair the cabinet committee that we've put through the
paper a couple of weeks ago on the choppers, and
(03:27):
there has been a robust case made considering a variety
of different possible helicopters, and these are honestly the best
ones probably if we were making any consideration around allies
in buying the helicopters, it's the fact that the Australians
have twenty something of the Seahawk helicopters and being interoperable
(03:49):
with them as important. But if you look at our
procurement of the airplanes, we've actually gone for two air buses,
which is a French German company. If we were worried
about the Americans, I guess we probably would have bought Boeings.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
You know. Further, that thing is say about the Australians
and the compatibility. How much do you consult with Australia
on what we get for our defense force? Do they
go through and say that'll be helpful, that wouldn't could
you do this? Could you do that?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
I wouldn't frame it that way that they're basically calling
the shots. But one thing that I'm proud of with
this government is that since we got into office, we've
actually really made a concerted effort to get out there.
So if you look at Chris Luxon, you always traveling.
Winston Peters is out there traveling an awful lot. Todd
(04:42):
McLay has been going to India just about every week.
The poor guy went to India just to have dinner.
If it helped with the relationship, that shows the free
trade agreements that he's getting through and making a difference there.
And then Judith Collins has been over there having bilateral
meetings with the Australian Minister of Defense. So right across
the board, but especially with Australia, we are reaching out
(05:03):
again whereas previously, and I know people don't want us
to spend our time bagging the last gup. But I mean,
whatever you may think of Nanaya Mahuta, she was the
Minister for Local Government and the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
Now you cannot be in the Hay Europe at one
day and in Eketahuna talking about pipes the next day.
(05:24):
It's physically impossible. So you know, we really have as
a government worked hard to build our connections, and that
especially includes with Australia. So when we buy stuff, it's
not that they're telling us what to buy, but it's
that we're working together.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Now, when I'm just looking at the text machine, what
do you say to the people that are texting in
that say they would prefer this money was spent on
other parts of our economy.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Well, it's a bit like insurance, right. It's always tempting
to say, well, money's tight, let's cut down on the insurance.
And of course that's a good short term solution, but
I don't know that it works for you, and I
think most people intuitively know that's not wise. The thing
about a defense force is that you kind of buy
it hoping you'll never actually use it. But if you
(06:07):
have to use it, then you're very grateful that you
paid the money, because by the time you need it,
it's too late to invest in it. And I think
if you want to make a comparison, we are currently
spending or at least until recently, zero point nine percent
of the economy. Our goal is to get up to
two percent. I'm proud that's happening. That's what the ACT
(06:29):
Party campaigned for. And it's not like we're into government spending.
I mean, it's one of the few things we think
the government should spend more on. If you go across
to Australia, they're already at two percent. We won't get
to two percent until twenty thirty two. The Australians by
that point are on track to be spending two and
a half percent. So you put it this way, if
(06:51):
there was a serious problem, we would be asking the
Australians to come across and help us. Now, are they
going to divert their military assets away from protecting Brisbane
and Sydney and Melbourne and Perth in order to protects Auckland,
Wellington and christ Church If they know that we have
(07:13):
not made the investment and do not have the capacity
to help them when they need it. It really is
as simple as that. If you believe in the ANZAC thing,
you've got to put your money where your moufice.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, nicely said. There's been a few teachs David about
the incident in February with the Chinese warships and the
Tasman Sea, and I believe Minister Collins words at the
time was that was quite chilling. Does that come into
play here when we look at the investment that was announced,
the twelve billion in this investment in the new military equipment,
which are impressive pieces of cats. Does those sort of
(07:42):
incidents come into play.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Well? I mean, I think those incidents are basically the
highlighting of a trend that's been going for a very
long time. I remember, I think I was on this
radio station back in twenty nineteen and I was saying, look,
I think probably the most significant thing that's happened in
New Zealand this year is the installation or the presence
(08:07):
of Chinese ships and curve of US and I actually
have to look on the map to realize how closer
it is. This has been coming for a long time
and we have got to start adjusting to the reality.
I believe New Zealand started quite a few years behind.
We did try and win the election earlier to start
(08:28):
addressing this, but the people didn't want us. Then now
that they did, we are taking steps to prepare for
a reality that's been coming for a while. And there's
incidents with the ships and so on that they're just
punctuating what we should already know.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So for all the people that are texting and saying
that they prefer we spend the money elsewhere, there's about
five to one texting that we should spend more. And
maybe that say something about the audience for me entitle
afternoons on Newstalk CB. I'm not sure, but if we
wanted to get super serious, don't we have to spend
billions and billions of more And look, if we could
(09:03):
afford it, what would our dream defense force look like?
Are we're talking going as far as fighter jets, I know,
stealth well as robo soldiers. What do we want?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Look?
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I just take the view that there's always going to
be censioned around our alliances with the rest of the world.
But I think if we can't at least do the
ANZAC thing and be in lockstep with Australia, then we're
in real trouble, and I would say, look, the New
Zealand economy is about one sixth of the Australian economy,
so I would say, look, if they are getting six
(09:35):
squadrons of F thirty five, maybe we should do a
deal to have one too. If they are currently buying
Japanese warships, which they have just agreed to buy a
dozen Japanese frigates, maybe we should add a couple onto
that order and basically play our part in an ANZAC alliance.
Now I'm not saying that's the government policy to do that,
(09:58):
but it's a principle that I think is probably a
good way of thinking about it. And then once you've
established that principle, start cutting your cloth and thinking what
you can and can't do. The other thing i'd say is,
I think what is being taught to the world in
real time by Ukraine is that often smaller autonomous vehicles,
(10:20):
drones and the like it can be a lot more
effective than having an entire army your very expensive hardware,
as the Russians found out, at enormous costs. So you know,
we should be first of all ANZAC focused, in my view,
second of all, just keeping a little bit of space
for the possibility that technology can change the rules of
(10:41):
the game very quickly, and we should try and tap
into our key with spirit of being nimble Number eight
wiring innovative.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, well, I mean that's the thing, isn't it. I mean,
are you worried that in a few years that a
four hundred dollars drone will take down our one hundred
million dollar choppers?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Well, you kind of think that the choppers will have
defense systems that will keep ahead of the four hundred
dollars drones.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
What about.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Well, at some point there could be a ratio there,
but I think it's a bit higher than the one
you're proposed.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, and David just quickly. Me's too humble to ask,
but he'd really like to go up in one of
the sea Hawks when they come into the country. Can
you make that happen?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
The Seahawks will be bringing them back.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yeah, no, you can, but they won't arrive until after
the election. So if he votes for me and encourages
all his listeners to then I'll be in a position
to help.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Oh all right, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
High steake Sdad. Really nice to have you on. Yeah,
really appreciate your red time. Thank you very much and
we'll hear everything soon. That is Deputy Prime Minister and
Eight Party leader David Seymour.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
For more from News Talks d B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We are discussing the government's purchase of five new Seahawk
helicopters and two Airbus A three twenty one x l
r's The ACT Party long campaigned for more investment in
our defense force, and we are now joined by ACT
Party leader and Deputy Prime Minister David Seymour David Good Afternoon,
Hey mass, Hey Tyler.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
David, So, what specific threats is New Zealand facing that
justify spending two point seven billion on new aircraft?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
And shoppers, well, take them one at a time. With
the aircraft, most countries have some ability to move people
at short notice, whether the troops, humanitarian aid, diplomats going
on missions to promote business or whatever. Basically every Western
country has some sort of planes, often much poorer countries
(01:06):
than us. Their leaders seem to bought much nicer planes
than we have. Anyhow, we are getting a pretty good
deal here. The seven five sevens were bought second hand,
I think in nineteen ninety three when I personally was
at primary school. They've kept them flying somehow, and that's
a big tribute to the engineers at the New Zealand
(01:27):
Air Force who can keep anything going. And yet those
planes were relatively modern technology compared with the old Sea
sprite helicopters. We had five of those, and the oldest
one hasn't actually seen action since the Korean War. It
was literally used in Korea and somehow the engineers at
(01:51):
the Defense Force have kept it flying until now. So
we're now going to replace those and that's where the
idea of the threat comes in. The fact is that
we now have a contested space in the Pacific. You've
seen recently the Chinese fire and missile which landed near
(02:11):
French Polynesia. You've seen freedom of navigation. I guess they'd
call it powerful flotillas of Chinese warships through the Tasman
Sea recently, and you just don't know what are the
challenges you might face as people start to compete over
(02:32):
minerals on the seabed around fishing grounds. The New Zealand's
Defense Force needs the ability to patrol our exclusive economic
zone and act as a deterrent to people who would
come and take things that are legally belonging to New Zealanders.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
It's crazy isn't it that whole Korean War thing that's
hawkeye and honeycut times that it's pretty insane. Is this
US procurement route about more than defense though? Is there
a New Zealand USA economic relations aspect to it?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
There's no. I mean, obviously it's good to be close
to our friends in the world, But I can honestly
say I haven't been directly directly involved, but I've been
a member of cabinet that's considered the different papers. In fact,
I chair the cabinet committee that we've put through the
paper a couple of weeks ago on the choppers, and
(03:27):
there has been a robust case made considering a variety
of different possible helicopters, and these are honestly the best
ones probably if we were making any consideration around allies
in buying the helicopters, it's the fact that the Australians
have twenty something of the Seahawk helicopters and being interoperable
(03:49):
with them as important. But if you look at our
procurement of the airplanes, we've actually gone for two air buses,
which is a French German company. If we were worried
about the Americans, I guess we probably would have bought Boeings.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
You know. Further, that thing is say about the Australians
and the compatibility. How much do you consult with Australia
on what we get for our defense force? Do they
go through and say that'll be helpful, that wouldn't could
you do this? Could you do that?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
I wouldn't frame it that way that they're basically calling
the shots. But one thing that I'm proud of with
this government is that since we got into office, we've
actually really made a concerted effort to get out there.
So if you look at Chris Luxon, you always traveling.
Winston Peters is out there traveling an awful lot. Todd
(04:42):
McLay has been going to India just about every week.
The poor guy went to India just to have dinner.
If it helped with the relationship, that shows the free
trade agreements that he's getting through and making a difference there.
And then Judith Collins has been over there having bilateral
meetings with the Australian Minister of Defense. So right across
the board, but especially with Australia, we are reaching out
(05:03):
again whereas previously, and I know people don't want us
to spend our time bagging the last gup. But I mean,
whatever you may think of Nanaya Mahuta, she was the
Minister for Local Government and the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
Now you cannot be in the Hay Europe at one
day and in Eketahuna talking about pipes the next day.
(05:24):
It's physically impossible. So you know, we really have as
a government worked hard to build our connections, and that
especially includes with Australia. So when we buy stuff, it's
not that they're telling us what to buy, but it's
that we're working together.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Now, when I'm just looking at the text machine, what
do you say to the people that are texting in
that say they would prefer this money was spent on
other parts of our economy.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Well, it's a bit like insurance, right. It's always tempting
to say, well, money's tight, let's cut down on the insurance.
And of course that's a good short term solution, but
I don't know that it works for you, and I
think most people intuitively know that's not wise. The thing
about a defense force is that you kind of buy
it hoping you'll never actually use it. But if you
(06:07):
have to use it, then you're very grateful that you
paid the money, because by the time you need it,
it's too late to invest in it. And I think
if you want to make a comparison, we are currently
spending or at least until recently, zero point nine percent
of the economy. Our goal is to get up to
two percent. I'm proud that's happening. That's what the ACT
(06:29):
Party campaigned for. And it's not like we're into government spending.
I mean, it's one of the few things we think
the government should spend more on. If you go across
to Australia, they're already at two percent. We won't get
to two percent until twenty thirty two. The Australians by
that point are on track to be spending two and
a half percent. So you put it this way, if
(06:51):
there was a serious problem, we would be asking the
Australians to come across and help us. Now, are they
going to divert their military assets away from protecting Brisbane
and Sydney and Melbourne and Perth in order to protects Auckland,
Wellington and christ Church If they know that we have
(07:13):
not made the investment and do not have the capacity
to help them when they need it. It really is
as simple as that. If you believe in the ANZAC thing,
you've got to put your money where your moufice.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, nicely said. There's been a few teachs David about
the incident in February with the Chinese warships and the
Tasman Sea, and I believe Minister Collins words at the
time was that was quite chilling. Does that come into
play here when we look at the investment that was announced,
the twelve billion in this investment in the new military equipment,
which are impressive pieces of cats. Does those sort of
(07:42):
incidents come into play.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Well? I mean, I think those incidents are basically the
highlighting of a trend that's been going for a very
long time. I remember, I think I was on this
radio station back in twenty nineteen and I was saying, look,
I think probably the most significant thing that's happened in
New Zealand this year is the installation or the presence
(08:07):
of Chinese ships and curve of US and I actually
have to look on the map to realize how closer
it is. This has been coming for a long time
and we have got to start adjusting to the reality.
I believe New Zealand started quite a few years behind.
We did try and win the election earlier to start
(08:28):
addressing this, but the people didn't want us. Then now
that they did, we are taking steps to prepare for
a reality that's been coming for a while. And there's
incidents with the ships and so on that they're just
punctuating what we should already know.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So for all the people that are texting and saying
that they prefer we spend the money elsewhere, there's about
five to one texting that we should spend more. And
maybe that say something about the audience for me entitle
afternoons on Newstalk CB. I'm not sure, but if we
wanted to get super serious, don't we have to spend
billions and billions of more And look, if we could
(09:03):
afford it, what would our dream defense force look like?
Are we're talking going as far as fighter jets, I know,
stealth well as robo soldiers. What do we want?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Look?
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I just take the view that there's always going to
be censioned around our alliances with the rest of the world.
But I think if we can't at least do the
ANZAC thing and be in lockstep with Australia, then we're
in real trouble, and I would say, look, the New
Zealand economy is about one sixth of the Australian economy,
so I would say, look, if they are getting six
(09:35):
squadrons of F thirty five, maybe we should do a
deal to have one too. If they are currently buying
Japanese warships, which they have just agreed to buy a
dozen Japanese frigates, maybe we should add a couple onto
that order and basically play our part in an ANZAC alliance.
Now I'm not saying that's the government policy to do that,
(09:58):
but it's a principle that I think is probably a
good way of thinking about it. And then once you've
established that principle, start cutting your cloth and thinking what
you can and can't do. The other thing i'd say is,
I think what is being taught to the world in
real time by Ukraine is that often smaller autonomous vehicles,
(10:20):
drones and the like it can be a lot more
effective than having an entire army your very expensive hardware,
as the Russians found out, at enormous costs. So you know,
we should be first of all ANZAC focused, in my view,
second of all, just keeping a little bit of space
for the possibility that technology can change the rules of
(10:41):
the game very quickly, and we should try and tap
into our key with spirit of being nimble Number eight
wiring innovative.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, well, I mean that's the thing, isn't it. I mean,
are you worried that in a few years that a
four hundred dollars drone will take down our one hundred
million dollar choppers?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Well, you kind of think that the choppers will have
defense systems that will keep ahead of the four hundred
dollars drones.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
What about.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Well, at some point there could be a ratio there,
but I think it's a bit higher than the one
you're proposed.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, and David just quickly. Me's too humble to ask,
but he'd really like to go up in one of
the sea Hawks when they come into the country. Can
you make that happen?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
The Seahawks will be bringing them back.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yeah, no, you can, but they won't arrive until after
the election. So if he votes for me and encourages
all his listeners to then I'll be in a position
to help.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Oh all right, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
High steake Sdad. Really nice to have you on. Yeah,
really appreciate your red time. Thank you very much and
we'll hear everything soon. That is Deputy Prime Minister and
Eight Party leader David Seymour.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
For more from News Talks d B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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