August 26, 2025 • 12 mins
Former finance minister Grant Robertson opened up about his life in politics in his new memoir, from his beginnings in Dunedin to the toll of the Covid years.
The new book, Anything Could Happen, came out earlier this month - and it unpacks the stresses that came with taking on a high-profile political role.
Robertson joined the Afternoons team to discuss further.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks'd be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Former politician Grant Robertson now Vice chancellor at the University
of Otago. He's just released his new memoir Anything Could Happen.
So he's saw in a few interviews in a bit
of press around that the release of that book, and
there was one line that we spotted in one of
those interviews that struck us. So the line is everybody
I see looks better when they stop in politics then
when they did when they were in it, which is
(00:38):
the hell of a line. But Grant Robinson joins us
on the show right now, Grant, good afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Oh how quickly did you start looking better in the
mirror after you left the politics? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Pretty damn quickly. Somebody told me that I looked younger,
which you always liked to hear, don't you when you're
at your fifties. But yeah, no, no, I felt mentally
and physically better. Did each take a little while. To
be honest. In the book, I talk about going to
see a counselor in the last period of time when
I was in politics, And remember she said to me
(01:11):
she dealt with quite a few high profile people, and
she said, for every year that you're in a high
profile role, you need at least a month. So I
reckon probably after about now, which is about fifteen months,
I'm looking the best I ever have, guys, So.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
She doesn't have it for everyone. Like Barack Obama aged
about twenty years a year and then he hasn't really
gone back.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What is two words for you? The matt here and
to die?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I thought, So, what's the you know what bit of
parliament is that takes the most out of you as
a person.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I will answer that, but I just wanted to say
at the beginning, I kind of know not just the
news tugs of the audience, but a more general audience.
There's not a massive amount of sympathy out there for politicians.
And I do kind of get that, you know, in
the sense that we're high profile people, and you know,
we are well paid. Politicians are well paid relative to
the rest of the population. You know all of that.
(02:11):
It's also a really important role in one that we
want the best of our people to be wanting to
go into. And my observation of sort of twenty odd
years around politics is that the bit that's changed the
most is the way in which the public scrutiny is
in your face twenty four to seven, that your families
are being brought into it, that it's cutting close to home.
(02:34):
You know, everyone's got a camera in their hand, now,
don't they with their phone, and so they're right in
the face. There's no downtime. You're twenty four seven, the
slightest mistake era, you know, bad temp at moment and
it's all over the media and the pylon begins. So
I think it's that. I think it's the fact that
you deserve scrutiny as a politician. Every politician should expect that,
(02:58):
especially if it's about policy and about the you know,
the important things that you're doing. It's when it transfers
over into your private life, your personal life, and it's
just NonStop, is no respite, and that's tough.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
So you think that the actual media has become more
hardcore and not just social media being added into the mix.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I think it's mainly social media, I'll say that now,
but in a funny way, I feel the same sympathy
for the media who cover Parliament. I remember talking to
some senior journalists before I left had been around for
you know, a number of years, you said, you know,
in the old days, they would come up with a
yarn that ask people for different views on it, that
(03:40):
sort of spend the day working out what was true
what wasn't. They'd write the story and there it would
be on the front page of the Herald or some
other Z and MEO owned publication the next day. Now
they are expected to report on it in real time.
There isn't a lot of time to check facts. Stuff
gets asserted, and there's kind of like this perpetual motion
(04:01):
machine that everyone in politics is on. And I'm not
really blaming media per se and that, I'm just saying
the whole thing is at warp speed twenty four to seven.
There's very little time for reflection, and I just think
it takes its toll on everyone.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Do you think good people then are turning down politics
as a career because of this, because it's so clearly,
I mean, I can see how full on it is
from the outside. I mean, I am part of the media,
but sometimes I claim not to be. But you know,
it just looks horrible for me. From the outside. It
looks like the most intense situation.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, I think. Look, I think there are people who
are turning it down. Having said that, there are also
plenty of people put in their hands up, aren't they?
So not everyone is put off. Not everyone has the
same experience either, you know. I talk to some of
my colleagues and former colleagues who say, yeah, yeah, it
was you know, there was a little bit of that,
but it wasn't too bad. So there are going to
be different experiences. I mean, I get a lot of
(04:59):
people coming to me and saying I'm thinking about going
to politics, actually from different parties, and what do I
think of that? And usually I say, look, if you're
about what you believe in, you've got things you would
like to see happen within foreig new zylinders, go for it.
But it does come with a health warning, and that
health warning is that you'll lose your personal life. There's
(05:19):
a chance your family will be sucked into it, and
you've got to kind of prepare yourself for that. But gosh,
I really want to get the point across. Politics still matters,
the media still matters. We've just got to work out
how we can make it a bit more sustainable.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It strikes me grant as a job, particularly now, that
could be pretty isolating that you you know, if you
get into politics and you do well, you're a high
performer by nature. But I look and it doesn't matter
what side of the aisle these politicians are performing on.
When things go wrong, Who the hell do you talk
to that actually understands and can give you genuine advice.
(05:54):
Seems to me that that can be potentially isolating for
a lot of people that get into politics.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, I'd say that's a fair point. In one of
the things I know it was being done before I
left parliament around making sure that parliamentarians across all party
were you know, we're being given opportunities to have people
that they could go and talk to. And I do
write about this in the book that I had. I
wasn't very good at that. I was probably in the
(06:19):
category that you're talking about. But in that last year,
just because you know, I have to just resigned and
I didn't take up the PM's job, and that I
definitely needed help and it was the best thing I did.
And the person was not a person with a great
connection to politics. They were just somebody that I could
talk to. And so making sure those opportunities are available.
(06:40):
You know, there's been some work over the last year
or so to try and improve the culture in parliament
generally because staff in parliament also I caught up in
this kind of maustream along with it, as I say,
the media too. So yeah, having someone to talk to
is important. But you know, I effectively gave up going
out much in the last few years just because there
was a certain time in the evening where where to
use it and mad heathersm punishers would with start to
(07:03):
talk to you at a at a rate that you
know was a bit unsustainable, and so I think that
you can find yourself isolated, but I was. Fortunately I
had a great set of friends who I could see
kind of socially in different settings, and they helped me
get through it as well.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
What about within parliament, because you always hear stories about
robust chat chats and parliament and then cross party bears
and friendships. Now that everything seems to have got so polarizing,
politicians still making friends across the aisle.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Yeah, perhaps maybe not quite as much. I think in
the old days that hours at Parliament were actually like
a bit longer. You know, they used urgency more often
they sat through the night, which we don't do anymore.
We stop at midnight, even for an urgency. So yeah,
you know, I think there's probably slightly less opportunity for
that less culture of going to the parliament bar and
(07:54):
so on. But look, I know colleagues who have people
across the aisle that they talk to. And again, you know,
he said jamously plaguing the book for the fourth time
in the interview. But in the book, you know, I
mentioned people like Todd Muller, who who I knew coming
before I went into politics, who you know, who I
regard very highly and I spent time with him. You know,
(08:15):
there are others in Parliament who I would have done
that with, but I feel like less So I feel
like it is more polarized. I mean, we're not the
United States, and that's a good thing from my perspective,
in the sense that the polarization you see there is
utterly extreme, but I can see elements of it creeping
in in New Zealand. And you know, I think I
think we're good when we do have those robust policy debates,
(08:39):
but we can move past that and respect each other
as people.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
So we've had leaders in times of war and such.
Do you think there's something in it? And you know,
people will say, well, if you want to lead the country,
you need to be hard, and so we want hard, strong,
powerful people that can take anything to lead lead at
us in the country. Do you think there's anything in that.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Oh, look, you've got to be tough to lead. But
being tough doesn't mean, you know, being cruel, It doesn't
mean being unnecessarily unkind. And you know, I believe one
of the toughest politicians I ever worked with was just
under dun I mean, she took some extraordinarily difficult calls.
She stood by what she believed in when there were
(09:25):
people telling her that she shouldn't be doing it. That's
a form of toughness. But what went with it was
a different kind of attitude and approach. So, yes, you've
got to be tough. Yes, you need to be able
to accept criticism of what you're saying and doing. I
just think we can all see how that when it
goes beyond that, and the level of threats and abuse,
(09:47):
particularly female politicians get, is horrendous. You know, I'm gay,
so that that gave another kind of angle of attack
for the kind of homophobic abuse that I used to
get a lot of in the role. That stuff's just
not on and we need to all say, no matter
what side of politics we're on, if we see that happening,
(10:07):
that we call.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It now the current promise gets a lot of bad abuse.
I've got to say, you do you chew over it?
You know what what happens? You know when you finish parliament,
you know you're out, you're getting to your love. Do
you do you because you know there's things in my
life that I've done that I chew over over and
over and over again, and they were insignificant and the things.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Not paying we'll get to that. We'll get to that.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Well, we'll get to that. Do you do you ever
wake up in the middle of the night and you're
still chewing over the things from from your from your
time in parliament.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
No, not so much nowadays, but but yeah, I think
I think that's all part of it. You know, I
describe myself as a recovering politician, and I think you know,
there's there's there are times of course, when you reflect
on what you see to what you did, and I
absolutely agree with you. I mean, I'm saying all of
this now I'm very clear that there were times in
Parliament when I was in full flight where I probably
(11:02):
said stuff that was a bit personal. I tried never
to bring families in and there's absolutely and there was
a reason for it. But you know, all of us
will look back on times and so, yeah, I could
have been better in that environment, and you know that's
a natural result of being in that robust arena. I
guess all I'm pointing out is that year when people
(11:23):
come out of politics, you can see how much better
they look and feel, and we've got to do what
we can to make the experience a better one.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Now, grant to go back to an issue you brought
up before in your book, you claim that I you
two hundred bucks from when you manage my band.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You I've got to be fair here met there were
there were four people in the band.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, well here was lead singer though fair so, and
you're also say in the book quite clearly that you're
still waiting on the money. Now. I know that you're
back in Duneda and running the university down there, So
can I just say if you could stop past the
nutrition department. My sister is a professor there, so I'm
sure she'll help you out with that.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That too, on a buck, still shirking the bills, making
brilliant exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
That that's the approach that I remember well, But no
was put it this way. The fond memories I have
from from Kidd Trinity probably our way the money that
I hed Yeah, surey good.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
All right, well you definitely got some some good, good
amounts of free beers if I remember back in the day.
All right, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Grunt, no worries, cheers.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
That is a former politician Grant Robinson, a one time
band member for Matt Heath and co band manager band manager.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks'd be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Former politician Grant Robertson now Vice chancellor at the University
of Otago. He's just released his new memoir Anything Could Happen.
So he's saw in a few interviews in a bit
of press around that the release of that book, and
there was one line that we spotted in one of
those interviews that struck us. So the line is everybody
I see looks better when they stop in politics then
when they did when they were in it, which is
(00:38):
the hell of a line. But Grant Robinson joins us
on the show right now, Grant, good afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Oh how quickly did you start looking better in the
mirror after you left the politics? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Pretty damn quickly. Somebody told me that I looked younger,
which you always liked to hear, don't you when you're
at your fifties. But yeah, no, no, I felt mentally
and physically better. Did each take a little while. To
be honest. In the book, I talk about going to
see a counselor in the last period of time when
I was in politics, And remember she said to me
(01:11):
she dealt with quite a few high profile people, and
she said, for every year that you're in a high
profile role, you need at least a month. So I
reckon probably after about now, which is about fifteen months,
I'm looking the best I ever have, guys, So.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
She doesn't have it for everyone. Like Barack Obama aged
about twenty years a year and then he hasn't really
gone back.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What is two words for you? The matt here and
to die?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I thought, So, what's the you know what bit of
parliament is that takes the most out of you as
a person.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I will answer that, but I just wanted to say
at the beginning, I kind of know not just the
news tugs of the audience, but a more general audience.
There's not a massive amount of sympathy out there for politicians.
And I do kind of get that, you know, in
the sense that we're high profile people, and you know,
we are well paid. Politicians are well paid relative to
the rest of the population. You know all of that.
(02:11):
It's also a really important role in one that we
want the best of our people to be wanting to
go into. And my observation of sort of twenty odd
years around politics is that the bit that's changed the
most is the way in which the public scrutiny is
in your face twenty four to seven, that your families
are being brought into it, that it's cutting close to home.
(02:34):
You know, everyone's got a camera in their hand, now,
don't they with their phone, and so they're right in
the face. There's no downtime. You're twenty four seven, the
slightest mistake era, you know, bad temp at moment and
it's all over the media and the pylon begins. So
I think it's that. I think it's the fact that
you deserve scrutiny as a politician. Every politician should expect that,
(02:58):
especially if it's about policy and about the you know,
the important things that you're doing. It's when it transfers
over into your private life, your personal life, and it's
just NonStop, is no respite, and that's tough.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
So you think that the actual media has become more
hardcore and not just social media being added into the mix.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I think it's mainly social media, I'll say that now,
but in a funny way, I feel the same sympathy
for the media who cover Parliament. I remember talking to
some senior journalists before I left had been around for
you know, a number of years, you said, you know,
in the old days, they would come up with a
yarn that ask people for different views on it, that
(03:40):
sort of spend the day working out what was true
what wasn't. They'd write the story and there it would
be on the front page of the Herald or some
other Z and MEO owned publication the next day. Now
they are expected to report on it in real time.
There isn't a lot of time to check facts. Stuff
gets asserted, and there's kind of like this perpetual motion
(04:01):
machine that everyone in politics is on. And I'm not
really blaming media per se and that, I'm just saying
the whole thing is at warp speed twenty four to seven.
There's very little time for reflection, and I just think
it takes its toll on everyone.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Do you think good people then are turning down politics
as a career because of this, because it's so clearly,
I mean, I can see how full on it is
from the outside. I mean, I am part of the media,
but sometimes I claim not to be. But you know,
it just looks horrible for me. From the outside. It
looks like the most intense situation.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, I think. Look, I think there are people who
are turning it down. Having said that, there are also
plenty of people put in their hands up, aren't they?
So not everyone is put off. Not everyone has the
same experience either, you know. I talk to some of
my colleagues and former colleagues who say, yeah, yeah, it
was you know, there was a little bit of that,
but it wasn't too bad. So there are going to
be different experiences. I mean, I get a lot of
(04:59):
people coming to me and saying I'm thinking about going
to politics, actually from different parties, and what do I
think of that? And usually I say, look, if you're
about what you believe in, you've got things you would
like to see happen within foreig new zylinders, go for it.
But it does come with a health warning, and that
health warning is that you'll lose your personal life. There's
(05:19):
a chance your family will be sucked into it, and
you've got to kind of prepare yourself for that. But gosh,
I really want to get the point across. Politics still matters,
the media still matters. We've just got to work out
how we can make it a bit more sustainable.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It strikes me grant as a job, particularly now, that
could be pretty isolating that you you know, if you
get into politics and you do well, you're a high
performer by nature. But I look and it doesn't matter
what side of the aisle these politicians are performing on.
When things go wrong, Who the hell do you talk
to that actually understands and can give you genuine advice.
(05:54):
Seems to me that that can be potentially isolating for
a lot of people that get into politics.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, I'd say that's a fair point. In one of
the things I know it was being done before I
left parliament around making sure that parliamentarians across all party
were you know, we're being given opportunities to have people
that they could go and talk to. And I do
write about this in the book that I had. I
wasn't very good at that. I was probably in the
(06:19):
category that you're talking about. But in that last year,
just because you know, I have to just resigned and
I didn't take up the PM's job, and that I
definitely needed help and it was the best thing I did.
And the person was not a person with a great
connection to politics. They were just somebody that I could
talk to. And so making sure those opportunities are available.
(06:40):
You know, there's been some work over the last year
or so to try and improve the culture in parliament
generally because staff in parliament also I caught up in
this kind of maustream along with it, as I say,
the media too. So yeah, having someone to talk to
is important. But you know, I effectively gave up going
out much in the last few years just because there
was a certain time in the evening where where to
use it and mad heathersm punishers would with start to
(07:03):
talk to you at a at a rate that you
know was a bit unsustainable, and so I think that
you can find yourself isolated, but I was. Fortunately I
had a great set of friends who I could see
kind of socially in different settings, and they helped me
get through it as well.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
What about within parliament, because you always hear stories about
robust chat chats and parliament and then cross party bears
and friendships. Now that everything seems to have got so polarizing,
politicians still making friends across the aisle.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Yeah, perhaps maybe not quite as much. I think in
the old days that hours at Parliament were actually like
a bit longer. You know, they used urgency more often
they sat through the night, which we don't do anymore.
We stop at midnight, even for an urgency. So yeah,
you know, I think there's probably slightly less opportunity for
that less culture of going to the parliament bar and
(07:54):
so on. But look, I know colleagues who have people
across the aisle that they talk to. And again, you know,
he said jamously plaguing the book for the fourth time
in the interview. But in the book, you know, I
mentioned people like Todd Muller, who who I knew coming
before I went into politics, who you know, who I
regard very highly and I spent time with him. You know,
(08:15):
there are others in Parliament who I would have done
that with, but I feel like less So I feel
like it is more polarized. I mean, we're not the
United States, and that's a good thing from my perspective,
in the sense that the polarization you see there is
utterly extreme, but I can see elements of it creeping
in in New Zealand. And you know, I think I
think we're good when we do have those robust policy debates,
(08:39):
but we can move past that and respect each other
as people.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
So we've had leaders in times of war and such.
Do you think there's something in it? And you know,
people will say, well, if you want to lead the country,
you need to be hard, and so we want hard, strong,
powerful people that can take anything to lead lead at
us in the country. Do you think there's anything in that.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Oh, look, you've got to be tough to lead. But
being tough doesn't mean, you know, being cruel, It doesn't
mean being unnecessarily unkind. And you know, I believe one
of the toughest politicians I ever worked with was just
under dun I mean, she took some extraordinarily difficult calls.
She stood by what she believed in when there were
(09:25):
people telling her that she shouldn't be doing it. That's
a form of toughness. But what went with it was
a different kind of attitude and approach. So, yes, you've
got to be tough. Yes, you need to be able
to accept criticism of what you're saying and doing. I
just think we can all see how that when it
goes beyond that, and the level of threats and abuse,
(09:47):
particularly female politicians get, is horrendous. You know, I'm gay,
so that that gave another kind of angle of attack
for the kind of homophobic abuse that I used to
get a lot of in the role. That stuff's just
not on and we need to all say, no matter
what side of politics we're on, if we see that happening,
(10:07):
that we call.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It now the current promise gets a lot of bad abuse.
I've got to say, you do you chew over it?
You know what what happens? You know when you finish parliament,
you know you're out, you're getting to your love. Do
you do you because you know there's things in my
life that I've done that I chew over over and
over and over again, and they were insignificant and the things.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Not paying we'll get to that. We'll get to that.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Well, we'll get to that. Do you do you ever
wake up in the middle of the night and you're
still chewing over the things from from your from your
time in parliament.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
No, not so much nowadays, but but yeah, I think
I think that's all part of it. You know, I
describe myself as a recovering politician, and I think you know,
there's there's there are times of course, when you reflect
on what you see to what you did, and I
absolutely agree with you. I mean, I'm saying all of
this now I'm very clear that there were times in
Parliament when I was in full flight where I probably
(11:02):
said stuff that was a bit personal. I tried never
to bring families in and there's absolutely and there was
a reason for it. But you know, all of us
will look back on times and so, yeah, I could
have been better in that environment, and you know that's
a natural result of being in that robust arena. I
guess all I'm pointing out is that year when people
(11:23):
come out of politics, you can see how much better
they look and feel, and we've got to do what
we can to make the experience a better one.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Now, grant to go back to an issue you brought
up before in your book, you claim that I you
two hundred bucks from when you manage my band.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You I've got to be fair here met there were
there were four people in the band.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, well here was lead singer though fair so, and
you're also say in the book quite clearly that you're
still waiting on the money. Now. I know that you're
back in Duneda and running the university down there, So
can I just say if you could stop past the
nutrition department. My sister is a professor there, so I'm
sure she'll help you out with that.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That too, on a buck, still shirking the bills, making
brilliant exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
That that's the approach that I remember well, But no
was put it this way. The fond memories I have
from from Kidd Trinity probably our way the money that
I hed Yeah, surey good.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
All right, well you definitely got some some good, good
amounts of free beers if I remember back in the day.
All right, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Grunt, no worries, cheers.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
That is a former politician Grant Robinson, a one time
band member for Matt Heath and co band manager band manager.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.