Full Show Podcast: 25 November 2025

On the Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons Full Show Podcast for the 25th of November 2025, first up, we talk bouncing back from redundancy.

Then the deepest dive into paper roads you have ever heard on ZB - we have 55,000km of them in New Zealand!

Get the Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons Podcast every weekday afternoon on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It'd be
follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, are you great New Zealanders. It is the twenty
first of November. It's a Tuesday, and this is Tyler's
and Matt's two hundred and fiftieth show, two one hundred
and fifty. You'd think we'd be getting some skills by.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Now, you'd think so. If anything, I think we'll probably regressed.
I have anywhere.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's shoving at neutral and rolling towards Christmas three and
a half weeks Man three and a half weeks, one
hundred and fifty episodes. How bloody good, and it's an
excellent one.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I will say to you podcast listeners, I hope you
like Paper Roads.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
That's what I'm just saying. I hope you like paper Roads.

Speaker 5 (00:56):
You will.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
You will love Paper Roads by the end of this
pody because.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Who I started the show, I didn't know what a
paper road was. Two hours of Paper Roads later, I
am still pretty confused since.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
On paper Roads. All right, great show, download, subscribe and
give us a review, give them a taste to keep.

Speaker 6 (01:14):
You all right?

Speaker 4 (01:14):
You seem busy? There you go, then bye, love you.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News
Talk said, be.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Very good afternoon to you. Welcome into Tuesday show. Thanks
for giving us a listeners. Always without you, we don't
have a show, so we appreciate it, and we love
that you're here with us.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Get our mets. You and me could just get together
and I don't know, just talk to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, we do that often next week. That is a
good thing. We get paid when we pretty much just
do that on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
So when I was at around at your house having
a barbecue on Friday last week, was that the Met
and Tyler Show but just no one else listening?

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I suppose it was. Yeah, thank god for that because
some of the jat.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
It was actually some of the best stuff we've ever done.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
I think it was. We're going to get a tape recording.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Next to there was some great topics like how poor
you are at cooking sausages.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Man Bean snapped, I mean I thought I was, And
it's so stealthily and nobody would know a good thing.
I didn't have to buy those saucas anyway, somebody else
brought those ones. But just before we get to the show,
there's a request from someone in the newsroom out there.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
You know him.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
He's a good man, Garth Bray, former one News reporter.
He now works for Business Desk. He's on Herald now
Great New Zealander. Yeah, Great New Zealander. So I just
walked past him in the kitchen and he said, Hey,
just a quick request for your mate. Can you please
tell him to stop putting his manky feet on social media?
And I said, I'll absolutely pass that on. So you
put your dirty old orang and tang blue no toenails

(02:43):
up on social media and I know you've got a
big reaction, but he was quite horrified.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
I'm trying to start an only fan and so far.
So I put that up.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Online, a shot of my foot with one of the
nails broken off from running my marathon about ten days ago,
fear and the other one in a terrible state, and I,
you know, asked if anyone would pay for it. Yep,
because you know out there in the world there are
people that will pay for this kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Guess what. Guess how many people have offered to pay
for more shots? Of my foot?

Speaker 3 (03:11):
How many?

Speaker 4 (03:12):
None?

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, I'm not surprised.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
There have been offers for people to pay, offering to
pay for me never to post any more pictures of
my feet.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Garth is one of them actually, So yeah, just take
that in mind, so that if you put another one up,
he'll happily chuck in through Bucks, just to make sure
you never do it again.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
My partner's never been more angry at me than when
I posted that horrible picture of my foot.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
She said, it reflects badly on both of us in
my feet.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, poor Tracy, my feet is so disgusting. That reflects
badly on everyone involved it. It actually reflects badly on you, Tyler,
for doing your show.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
It does. Actually, my rankings have gone down, Tracy's rankings
have gone down somehow. Yours has remain the same, but
very good. Right on to the show today after three o'clock.
It's everywhere at the moment Black Friday. You can't two
in sideways without seeing another Black Friday adverts. So we
want to have a chat to you. Is this something
that you were fizzing about? Have you already got amongst

(04:02):
these Black Friday deals? Or is this just something that
rolls around every year you have a look and thank god,
let's say means aren't that good? And you just go
about your life. I'm excited, you are excited?

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (04:13):
But I think Black Friday savings are huge?

Speaker 4 (04:17):
They seem big.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I feel like there's an incentive to do a Black
Friday sale. You have to put something good up. You
can't put up a half as sky in of discount.
It's got to be a real, a real discount. I've
got fomo. It's something that I can't wait to get
out of this show so I can run off and
buy it because I saw that it's on a Black
Friday sale.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah, you were genuinely, very very excited about this item. Yeah,
you've been telling everybody about it.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah. So do you support Black Friday? Do you understand it?
Again it? Do you think it's too Americanized? What do
you reckon? Be a Black Friday? On for it?

Speaker 3 (04:52):
There's going to be a good chat after three o'clock.
After two o'clock, we want to have a chat about
paper roads. So a great story about paper roads. There
was a gentleman quoted Andy McDonald is his name. He's
a big fan of the so called paper roads he
uses them for hunting, tramping and fishing, and they are
everywhere at the moment, fifty five thousand k's of paper
roads across New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
So paper roads are basically roads that exist on paper,
but no one's ever done anything with them. So they're
official roads that were gritted out yep, but none of
the transport agencies in the country or council have ever
put any tar seal on them or anything. So sometimes
a paper road it may be on a map, but
it's just two tracks yep, two tire tracks. Yeah, they're
going through someone's property, so you know, do you have

(05:31):
one going through your property? How annoying is it to
have a paper road through your property. I think you
can just pushback on fences, you've got punishes driving through
your property constantly, But do you use a propriate paper road.
I've only this, I've only heard of paper roads today,
so I'm quite interested in these. Yeah, I've never heard
the term before, but they're everywhere. There's fifty five thousand
kilometers of them, and they're making people angry.

Speaker 7 (05:56):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
We want to hear from you about your paper roads.
Some people happy, yep, very true. That is after two o'clopper.
Right now, let's have a chat about redundancy. So it
is back in the headlines after fifty eight rolls we're
disestablished at north Tech. Has obviously been happening up and
down the country a fair bit in recent months and
the recent years, as public and private sectors have to
tighten their bounce in pretty tough times. So the story

(06:19):
quotes the tertiary education union organizer Jill Jones, who was
involved in these fifty eight roles that were disestablished, and
says redundancy can have a deep and impact on a
person's sense of identity. She has dealt with many redundancy
proposals over the years and that she says, the result
went far beyond just the financial implications. It's the shame
people feel.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, this really hit me when I was reading this story.
These people that lose their jobs and they feel such
shame about it that they don't tell their families and friends.
There's people just pretend to go to work while they're
looking for a job. And I don't know, I mean,
I don't think people should feel shamed for losing their
job because the company's downsized. I mean, if you've done

(07:02):
something terrible at work and you get booted out the door.
That's a difference situation.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, being fired is I think far worse.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
But sometimes companies have to have to knock people off,
but not great for the people that it happens too.
So how do you approach a job loss if it's
happened to you, was it the end of the world
or was it the making of you? Because you also
hear all these stories where they go kickstarted a new career,
It kickstarted a new way of thinking. I would have
just been stuck in the same job that I wasn't

(07:29):
happy in forever and the best thing that ever happened
to me was redundancy or being laid off. So tips
for getting on with it when you get laid off
one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
And nine, two ninety two is that text number? Love
to hear your experiences. How are you going in your
job searching for that it's happened to you recently? And
how did you bounce back? Come on through? It is
thirteen past one.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons U's
Talks that'd be.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Very good afternoon to you. So how do you bounce
back from redundancy? Obviously it is something that's happened to
a few people over the last couple of years as
times are tight and it's hard for businesses. So I'd
love to hear from you on O one hundred and
eighty ten eighty. What are your experiences? How do you
stay positive and was it a bit of silver lining
that maybe it gave you the motivation to do something
that you've always wanted to do. Nine two ninety two

(08:20):
is the text number.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
Catherine, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
What do you think about being laid off in redundancies
and such and bouncing back?

Speaker 8 (08:28):
Look, it's a moment in time. You don't overthink it.
It is what it is. You don't let it define you,
and you certainly don't let it alter what your attitude is.
You know, you've really got to have a can do
attitude and look at what your skill set is and
make a fairly clear determination that by Monday I'm going

(08:48):
to be employed again.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Do you how do you fight because it's inevitable no
matter how you go through the logic of it. How
do you stop yourself feeling like you've been at the
very least rejected.

Speaker 8 (09:02):
Look, I mean I've you know, I've been selling on
a commission basis for public thirty years. And the thing
to remember is that you have to maintain an attitude
of positivity. I've been made redundant before. In fact, that's
what's spurred me to get into my own commission selling

(09:23):
position again. So I had total control over my life.
You know, you've got to make decisions, and you've got
to make good choices. And I mean, who cares if
you've been you know, let go. It's it's it's something
that may not have really anything to do with you.
You're just a number, right, So you've really got to

(09:46):
be responsible for your own thinking at that point. And
I mean that's a great thing about commission selling is
that you might have the best months last month, but
on the first of this month, you're back to zero, right,
And everything that you do in that day is going
to create your next month. You don't, you don't have
room for any negative thinking. And you know, when I

(10:07):
get into a as we inevitably do, because selling is
you know, peaks and troughs. You know, I write a
clear goal down of what I expect to earn in
that month, and then I just get to work. And
if I need an attitude adjustment, I look in the
mirror and I go what needs to change?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
So in your job it must be interesting because people
people might be in a job and worry about losing
their job, but in your job, you've got to you know,
it's kind of like you're always losing your job. You've
always got to be fighting, right, there's no there's as
you say, there's a new month, so it kind of
a new month is a new job.

Speaker 8 (10:46):
Absolutely. And you know what it's taught me in my
many years doing this is that I am completely self
reliant and I am independent and no one gets you know, gets.

Speaker 9 (10:58):
To fire me.

Speaker 8 (11:00):
I'm the only one that can fire me. And based
on what I do in this minute is how I
determine my level of success.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
Do you miss working with people?

Speaker 8 (11:09):
I work with people every day?

Speaker 2 (11:11):
All right, So you're in you're independent, but you still
work with people.

Speaker 10 (11:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (11:15):
People are my business?

Speaker 6 (11:16):
Right?

Speaker 4 (11:16):
Okay? I see yeah?

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Right?

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Right, you're not a human trafficker, are you? Okay?

Speaker 11 (11:23):
Good? Good?

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Just checking, just a checking they are out there. You
did say people are your business.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
I just want to check it.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
So, I mean, you've got a great philosophy and attitude, Catherine,
But is it is it hard sometimes a when you
did face that redundancy, is it hard to maintain that
that presence of mind to say, I've got to get up,
I've got to keep going and going to keep pushing
for put a smile on my face because I've got
no option.

Speaker 8 (11:47):
Look, I think it depends on a number of factors.
How old are you, what's your life experience, how many
knockbacks of your head. My advice to anybody is go
out there and risk risk it or don't care about
the opinions of others. Go out there and make your way.
Get knocked back, it's good for you.

Speaker 6 (12:03):
Get over it. You know.

Speaker 8 (12:04):
I think what we're missing in this world at the
moment is resilientdience. People don't have resilience. People barely have
the courage to have their own personality.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, I mean there is a bit of that going
around when it comes to sales. Can can anyone be
good at sales? Or is it because there's people that
you think, well, you've got the sales mentality because it's
a hard job. You know, you as you say, you
get knocked back and you have to just keep going
and going and going. Can anyone get into sales? Can
anyone learn how to do it?

Speaker 4 (12:35):
Or is it? Do you have to be a special
type of person to be successful at sales?

Speaker 8 (12:40):
No, you don't have to be anything special. I'm certainly not.
I love people, and you know that's kind of my
mantras is I love my people. And if you are
good with people, you enjoy having a conversation, And to
be honest with you, I worry about younger people today
because they're so focused on the as devices in their hands. Yeah,
but if you can have an eye to eye conversation

(13:02):
with someone about what they're going through in life, what's
their background, ask questions, listen to people. People are dying
to be heard. You know, no one's interested in hearing
about other people. They're only interested in what they see
or what they can like. So I think, you know,
for people that have a real genuine interest in people

(13:23):
and helping people, those are good salespeople.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
So what do you think is more important when it
comes to sales, and we're talking generally about sales, is
that the money, the cost, how much it's going to
cost or the relationship that you form as a salesperson
with the client, the latter.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Every time, every time is about the relationship.

Speaker 8 (13:44):
Yeah, people don't care, you know, like I don't care
about the money. If I look after my clients, the
money will come.

Speaker 9 (13:53):
If you go into.

Speaker 8 (13:54):
Sales going yeah and this that I'm going to buy
the flashy car, all of this, your focus is wrong.
You know, you're not going to look after your people.
You're going to cut corners and you are not going
to put clients first.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Right, and do you mind if can you tell us
what sort of area you're in sales?

Speaker 4 (14:12):
What are you selling?

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Catherine, I'm in the property yes.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
Right, okay, Hey, well, thanks for sharing.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
You sound very good at your job, Catherine, and glad
glad you managed to bounce back from those knockbacks. But
thank you very much for giving us a buzz.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I've only talked to you for about three minutes, and
I'll buy whatever your selling can. Yeah, yeah, exactly, I'm
all right, I don't care what it is. Yeah, oh
eight hundred eighthre about the dollar earlier. The relationship has
been formed.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Come on through, Oh e one hundred and eighty ten
eighty if you have been made redundant, how did you
bounce back and did it end up being something that
worked out really well for you that it gave you
the motivation to do what you wanted to do.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Love to hear from you, Mike says, you constantly hear
success stories of people. When it started with I was
made redundant. So if I get made redundant, it's going
to be the beginning of something exciting.

Speaker 12 (14:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (14:57):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
It is the headlines and the hard questions. It's the
mic asking breakfast.

Speaker 13 (15:03):
Which id inquiry run to Illingworth k C is the
chair of the inquiry. Do you have too many resignations?

Speaker 14 (15:08):
No, We've got very talented people. They've got a phone
employment when we finish our job.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
It just goes sort of against what you're saying.

Speaker 13 (15:15):
If people are seeking me, I'd love to stay, but
I'm leaving because I've got to go find other work.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
It just seems to me that we've got issues here.

Speaker 14 (15:21):
It's a lot different from the insight.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well that's why we've got you on. I'm trying to
look at it from the inside.

Speaker 13 (15:27):
Something's going on and if you ring me up and
go mate twelve months job, come and help us sort COVID.
I'm all in and I'm in for the twelve months
because I've made a commitment. Not we'll see how we go,
and I might quite after five months doesn't ring true
to me? Back tomorrow at six am the Mike Hosking
Breakfast with Maybe's Real Estate News Talk ZB Afternoon.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
It is twenty six past one now, just before we
go back to the discussion about redundancy. We keep getting
texts from cats. Yeah, and the latest one has just
come through again right at the top.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
I'm trying to sell pies, but trying to give you
a lot of pies. And she's texted a picture of
four pies and then she said, you want some pies here,
We want some pies, but we love some pies.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Cat, either bring them to us at NEWSTALKSZB.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, text, how we get hold of these pies.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
We'll come to you. We want the pies. Get so
rest assured we would love the pies.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yep. Tell us about the pies. Yeah, we'll come to
you if we have to.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
How can we facilitate the transfer of these pies from
you to us?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
This is a big thing and we're gonna we're going
to sort it. Out before the end of the show.
But back to redundancy. How did you bounce back, Chris?

Speaker 2 (16:27):
How are you yeah, you've been made redundant in the past, Chris.

Speaker 15 (16:31):
Oh yeah, Look I got laid off. I say, what organization?
But I found out that they hired someone and paid
them much less and what I was worth. And that's
the common perception.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Of why.

Speaker 15 (16:43):
You're going to look at it that way, that helps
are going for what they are and the next minute
somebody else wants to wants to work for less. And
that's what I found was the redundancy when I got
laid off. I was hired over.

Speaker 16 (17:01):
After I was let go.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
Wow, And that's the thing.

Speaker 15 (17:08):
They want to cut offs. They want to tender out
for paying peanuts or you know, they want cowboys. Well,
that's fine. I want to pay the wages that people
are worth the experience for. Then you wonder why companies well,
by getting poor service and outcomes for help people perceive them.

(17:30):
Because that's why that's what I think.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
Now, Chris.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
When you lost this particular job that you're thinking about,
how quickly did you turn things around and start looking
for work and how did that whole process.

Speaker 15 (17:43):
I got laid off in April, and I was working
for the government and that was when the time they
were cutting back all the public services. And then I
just bring one of the former well, former staff I
worked for, and they said they hired someone else who
wanted to accept the lower arm well a lower amount

(18:03):
of money. Well, I don't know if that's the case,
but it could have been. And that always what organizations
are trying to do on the way.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, you told us that part of it. But
so how quickly so you lost your jobs? You say
in April, long May was it?

Speaker 15 (18:19):
I mean, look, I'm doing two days a week. We're
just sitting in casual at the moment, and it's very
hard at the moment the job market, and I really
would love to get back into something full time. People
just aren't hiring at the moment.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
And how are you going? How are you going about
looking for work, Chris? What's your process?

Speaker 15 (18:42):
I'm looking in the industries that I work best. I mean,
I don't care about what other people say. There's heaps
of jobs out there other than what I'm interested in doing.
But you can't do something you can't and you have
to go with your instincts of finding something you're interested in,
and that's where it all stands. You know, I just
love being in the area of compliance work or doing

(19:06):
parking enforcement or well I was on the security industry,
but I'm on anymore. But I'm doing well, that's the
odd job there and now now. But yeah, it's it's
a very hard market out there at the moment. And
maybe I'll have to look outside my my work and
work somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
But yeah, but where you actually where do you actually
physically look for the jobs?

Speaker 4 (19:30):
Are you going to sites or seek.

Speaker 15 (19:35):
Seeks a good website and and I'll put my application
through everybody, anybody, And I think employers are being a
bit regimon on who they hire. So maybe there's some
that are looking for bodybuilders and models, but at the
end of the day, you know, it's it could be

(19:55):
down to the people that can do the job and
have previous experience, but that's not the case anymore. It's
not like that anymore. The employment market. It's who they
think best fits.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
So how many jobs do you reckon that you've envisceded
gated in the six months since you you were made redundant?

Speaker 15 (20:12):
Chris, I've applied for many government jobs, but I think
what they've done is I've put them on the website
and I guess they're hiring when they have a vacancy
come up or there this well on there for show,
I guess. But but yeah, there's a lot of There
is a lot of work, but it's just which one
fits me, and that's what it comes down to. And

(20:34):
I'm trying my best to apply for us many jobs
to try and get somewhere out to help someone out,
even if it's you know, voluntary work, I mean, if
I have to, but I mean, you know, to avoid
most paid work. But yeah, so I am trying.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Good on you, Chris, and thank you for calling. Hope
you go well out there in the job market, and.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, good luck Chris. So e one hundred and eighty
teen eighty is that number to call if you've been
made redundant? How did you bounce back? He do you
stay positive? And how did you get back into a job?
And if you're still looking, still keen to hear from
you absolutely nineteen nine two of Tex.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Russell says, Hey, guys, losing a job through redundancy can
be deeply damaging to self esteem and identity. This is
because part of who you are is the work we do. Also,
being told you as a person and not necessarily is
the opposite of affirmation. Yeah, it's true, but you know,
it could be the opportunity that you need to.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Change your life up exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Whatever happens, you've got to find a way to be
positive and move forward.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Yeah, headlines with railing coming up and taking more of
your calls shortly, it is twenty eight to two.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
US talk said be headlines.

Speaker 17 (21:41):
With blue bubble taxies. It's no trouble with a blue bubble.
The government will not invest in a dedicated cook Straight
emergency response tug because of cost and is ending a
temporary contract. A business case noted big cost leap and
that existing capabilities have managed to resolve twenty three incidents
in the past five years. A woman's moderately injured after

(22:05):
being assaulted in her fun Atay home about midnight on
that Armaga's Murdoc Crescent policea asking people to report any
suspicious activity in the area. Fire and Emergency is asking
the Employment Relations Authority to help facilitate negotiations on its
sixteen month pay dispute with the five Fighters union. The

(22:25):
Education Minister says a nationwide maths trial for year seven
and eight students needing extra support found participants progressed on
average by one to two years. The forty million dollar
program will now expand nationwide. The Dark Fleet Hiding in
our own backyard How the Cook Islands sold its flag

(22:45):
to Moscow and Tehran. You can see the story at
Enzaid Herald Premium. Macknaw to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Raylean.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
So we're talking about bouncing back from redundancy. It's happened
to a fear few people over the recent twelve months.
Obviously the economy is in a dire strait at the moment.
But loved how you bounce back.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
She only says, Hi, guys, resilience like that lady was
talking about. I was made redundant from in New Zealand
during COVID. Three years later, I'm a registered nurse. Nice,
well done. Yeah, that's the sort of stories we love.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Katrina, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 7 (23:19):
Ah.

Speaker 6 (23:19):
Hi. The other.

Speaker 10 (23:22):
My husband has been was made redundant earlier this year.
It's actually the second time he was up for redundancy,
which is quite stressful when you sometimes don't even know
if you're going to keep your job. The first time
he did keep his job, but the second time he
was let go.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
What was the time frame between those what was that?

Speaker 2 (23:43):
What was the time frame between between those two things
the first time time?

Speaker 10 (23:49):
Maybe eight months?

Speaker 1 (23:51):
That's right months?

Speaker 4 (23:54):
That stress.

Speaker 10 (23:55):
Yeah, but what we found great, and especially because we
had the first sort of go at it sort of
gave us a bit of a test run. But we
used AI. And I think I'm nearing sixty and he's
just over sixty, so you've got that sort of agism
thing going against you really hard. And his sort of job,

(24:19):
we actually couldn't get another job like that, and where
we lived, so we had to look further afield. But
we used oh well, I actually supported him using AI.
Like just things like cover letters, things like getting your
CV brushed up and making sure that it's like right
on points like those at things take a lot of time,

(24:39):
but if you can just like wake it into you know,
AI and yeah, and we actually had really good success
with that. We managed to get all of the applications
that we put in, We managed to get an interview
for at least and offered two or three of the jobs.
So wow, I just think using those sort of tools.

(25:01):
A lot of people are sort of of our age.
You're a little bit sort of hesitant about AI, but
it can actually be an amazing resource.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
And has he found he found another job since the redundancy.

Speaker 10 (25:14):
Yeah, so he got offered two of those, two really
good jobs, and we're moving back down to the South Island.

Speaker 11 (25:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (25:24):
We moved from another redundancy quite a number of years
ago up to Hawk's Bay, which is wonderful place to live.
But we're heading back down to Timor.

Speaker 6 (25:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (25:38):
Yeah, And so.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
He loses his job.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Right, there's a redundancy, so there's a bit of leeway
financially with the payout. But just how quickly did you
guys knuckle down and start applying for jobs. And what
was his mood about getting back into it.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (25:54):
I think first of all, we didn't get a payout,
like that's the thing with the contracts nowadays, there's very
little in the way of I think we got a month,
you know, I mean twenty eight days, and it's pretty
standard a lot of contracts now So the first day
he was pretty down, and I just said that weekend

(26:16):
we just knuckled in. We'd already started on the CV
from the earlier run through, and we just brushed that
up again and straight into it because yeah, it doesn't Yeah,
it really helped to have something to focus on as well,
and you get Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
He must have done very well in the interview stage
to be offered. Was it two or three? He got
offered the job and then took the one Intomaru.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
But AI can't get him through the interview. Your AI
can get him the.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Interview, but I can't get him through the interview. So
he must have done well there, Kit Katrina.

Speaker 10 (26:51):
Yeah, I mean that is the thing you've got to
and I think, well, the other thing we used AAI thought,
which you say it can't get you through the interview, Well,
it actually can do a lot. A lot of prep.
We did a lot of questions, We did a lot
of mock run throughs of difficult questions for interviews.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
So yeah, they asked about it.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
I was talking to a friend the other day about him,
and he's just lost his job, and he was saying,
every interview he goes to. One of the questions in
the interview is how do you incorporate AI into what
you're doing?

Speaker 6 (27:23):
Right?

Speaker 2 (27:23):
And he said to me, I don't what should I say,
And I said, scheduling.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Everything everything.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
I said, say, I use it to make to do
the same things, sort out my admin, make me more efficient,
get more work through, get more of the you know,
the basic stuff done so I can focus on the
key issues and moving things forward.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
That's what I said to say.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Good answer.

Speaker 10 (27:46):
Yeah, yeah, well that's what companies want to want, people
that are forward thinking. And actually that was one of
the questions they asked my husband in the job that
he took and timorrow and they said, what's your view
on AI? He said, love it, and they said that's
what we wanted to hear.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
Love it. It's a good answer.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
And so are you are you are working, Katrina?

Speaker 10 (28:11):
So well, I was working that he's the main breadwinner,
so I'm an early childhood teacher, so we have two
boys on the spectrum, so I don't earn anywhere there
as much as him, So I think that that weighed
heavily on him as well it being the main bread winner.
So just being able to support him with that process,

(28:31):
I think, you.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Know what, it sounds like, You've got a good template
for if someone is in a relationship and their.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
Partner loses the job.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Just really knuckling down and helping them with the admind
around the cavallettters, the the cvs getting in there and stuff.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
Is a really good support. So bloody good on you.

Speaker 10 (28:51):
Yeah, and for friends that I've done it for friends
as well. I think sometimes like I had a girlfriend
who was looking for a job as well, and she
had a CV, and I mean she's in her fifties
and she still had stuff from high school on there.
I'm late, and I said, look of it to me.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
You're a good friend.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Well you might.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
You might have a profession there, Tyler and I will
probably have to come and see you at some point soon,
so we'll keep your number.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Katrina. You're a great call. Thank you very much. I
had one hundred eighty ten eighty if flight Katrina and
her husband. Did you find AI helped you to scrub
up the CV or get your foot on the door?
Love to hear from you.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
The six says, Honestly, in this market, I'm an employer
and I've pretty much given up on employees nowadays. Yes,
I'm sort of recognized as a lower experience trade commercial insulation,
but I would never risk my business again with an
employee only looking for subcontractors.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Now right, Wow, keep those teams coming through a nine
to two nine two. But on the sub contractor, there's
another one.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
There go be a subcontractor. Lads, there's heaps of work
out there in the commercial industry.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Is that true? I eight one hundred eighty ten eighty Tyler.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, that ghost is going to be a subcontractor. I've
actually got some work I need done in my house.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
You don't want me. You don't want me working on
your house mate. More of a hindrance than I help.
I'm telling you now right at seventeen to two oh
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number?

Speaker 1 (30:13):
To Coo, it's a fresh take on talk back. It's
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons. Have your say on
eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth talks.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
That'd be afternoon to you. It is a quarter to
two and we're talking about bouncing back from redundancy on
the back of the news that fifty eight jobs have
been disestablished at North Tech. Really keen to hear how
you dealt with it, because it can be a massive
blow to a lot of people. That idea of redundancy
can impact yourself worth, you know, your identity and your jobs.

(30:42):
So how did you bounce back? And was it a
silver lining For a lot of people? It is that
they might not have liked the job one hundred percent
unfortunately lost the job. It sucked, but it gave them
or you motivation to do what you really wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Well.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
I was talking to my friend who lost his job,
and I said to him, I says, mate, impeddimentum is there.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
Yeah, it's weird. Impendomentum, it's weird. And what does that mean?
That means the obstacle is the way?

Speaker 18 (31:08):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yes, so and that was great talking to Katrina before
because her partner lost a job and the obstacle was
getting a job.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
So they really focused on the thing in front of them.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
So, you know, you can be feeling down, you can
be feeling shame or whatever, but your path is clear.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
The obstacle in the way is to get another job.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
So Katrina and her husband they knuckled down and the
path was clear. That obstacle in front of them was
getting a job, so they focused their energies on that yep.
And then you know, that's something you can hold on
to that you have a clear thing that you have
to do.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
To push your energies towards, which is getting another job.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
It's a great strategy, and you know, because you've got
to stay positive and it's really hard for people out there. Look,
I ever mentioned yet, but I was made redundant during
the GFC in a job that I quite liked. But
it was pretty tough times and I was an a
regional job and luckily I found something within two to
three months. But it was a bit of a knock.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
So were you expecting it? Were you surprised when it happened.
It was a bit of a long time coming.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
I think it was about six months where they gave
your heads up that things were happening.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
But then it was.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
It was a roller coaster because I said, right, it's
not happening. Now things are okay. Then it was happening again,
and there was a few other jobs and rolls jumped
in lumped into that. But yeah, when it hit, I
had to go move back home.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Did you feel rejected by it or did you understand
that that was the economy at that time and this
was sort of inevitable and it wasn't really your fault.
It was just you were just you were the wrong
person at the wrong time, in the wrong place came.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
I was pissed off. I was really angry. I was
angry at the company, and yeah, it was a knock
because I think it was a knock.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
To my pride. How dare you you know?

Speaker 3 (32:44):
I was actually yeah, I was an asset to this
company and you give me the flick everything that I've
given to you.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
But I got over that pretty quick.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
But I was lucky enough to, you know, fairly young
twenty four and move back in with mum. So I
actually had a place rent free, which is you know,
a lot of privilege there. I know that, but Mum
gave me a bit of motivation saying you're not going
to hang around the house. I don't care what you do.
I want you looking for jobs from the hours of
eight am to four pm. If I catch you around

(33:12):
here just watching TV, I'll be really angry.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
And fair enough to get on your mum.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, yeah, she's a good woman, Katrina. How are you good?

Speaker 19 (33:20):
Thank you? I just wanted to mention that I was
made redundant in nineteen ninety and I had no warning.
But the company I worked for, which was insurance they
were very good, and they provided me with a counselor
to help me cope with it, and.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
That's pretty good for nineteen nineteen.

Speaker 19 (33:45):
Yes, and they also gave me people to help me
find a job. But I'm coming from the side of
being an introvert. So it's all well and good, you know,
saying that you need to get out there in that,
But if you're an introvert, that's extremely difficult to do.
I applied for over one hundred and twenty five jobs

(34:07):
wow to get two interviews, and I was unemployed for
eight months. I did start collecting the doll towards that
eight months mark, and I can understand how people end
up staying on the doll because my spirit was gone.

(34:32):
And when I went for the interviews, I was thinking,
don't get the jobs, don't get the job, because I
was completely thetys.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
Wow.

Speaker 19 (34:45):
Well, one of the jobs I applied for two jobs,
got two interviews, and the second one I smiled and
laughed at one of the comments from the interviewers, and
that got me the job. And one month after I
got that job, I got made redundant, but actunately, because

(35:09):
I was within government. They make you work out three months.
So I got moved to a different area. And I've
now been with Defense for thirty four years.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
Oh so you've been with that's still there?

Speaker 19 (35:27):
Yeah, the second year, so they go on. So there.
I think it was the day my three months was
I got told that we're keeping you on.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Oh it's so good.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
How good Katrina, What a good story. And so looking
back now, it must be interesting just thinking about how
close you were to giving up, but by just keeping
on enough and just that smile, that that thirty four
years later, So yeah, I mean, thank you, Thank goodness
you didn't give up even though you felt like it.

Speaker 19 (35:58):
Yes, yeah it was. It was really hard. And there's
lots of people like me out there. Not everybody is
an extrovert.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
But isn't it a wonderful thing? Katrina?

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I think I'd be considered mostly an introvert, maybe a
bit of extroverted. Extroverted elements.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
Cutting a track on the D floor at your party
on Friday night.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, two rider was. But when you do something like
like Katrina, Yeah it was good dancer, wasn't I? I
saw you were just judging me in the corner. You've
got you've got some move moving, mate, But isn't it
wonderful that someone like Katrina, and you know a lot
of people out there thinking I don't know if I
can do this. I don't know I've got the skills.
But you push yourself like Katrina and put the smile
and the laugh and get something across the line. That's

(36:39):
a massive achievement.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah, good stuff Katrina.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Hey boys, I was made redundant early this year with
a competitive job. I keep getting noose, so I took
the approach of if you can't join them, beat them
and started my own company.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
Nice good man congotulations. I hope that goes well.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, Oh one hundred eighty ten eighty is that number
to call?

Speaker 4 (36:56):
It is eight to.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Two Matt Heath Taylor Adams taking your calls on oh,
eight hundred and eighty Tight, It's Mad Heathen Taylor Adams
Afternoons News DOGSB.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
News DOGSBI to two. We've had a whole bunch of
great teachs come through on nine to two nine two.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Heidi says, been made redundant three times in my professional
selling career now of thirty nine years. You're only as
good as your last successful sales.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Best advice is similar to your caller earlier, get up
off the canvas and box on. We even moved from
Perth for the only role I could find for eighteen months,
return to New Zealand and made redundant again. I was
a bread runner as my two girls were under three
at the time. Best advice always get a good barrister,
say no more.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
Good lawyer definitely helps. Oh right, not a barista on
your Heidi.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, nice, getting back up and getting on with it.
Really resourceful people, they help themselves. Hey, guys, AI cost
me my job up to seventeen years. It's interesting because
people are saying use AI to get a job, but
other people are saying AI is taking their job.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, double edhed sword.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Look, it's the same for all of us small business owners.
We technically lose our job daily. Yeah, and it's correct.

Speaker 6 (38:09):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Certainly tough out there, but thank you very much everyone
who called in texts. Yeah, it's been a fantastic chat,
certainly has. But coming up after two o'clock this is fascinating.
We want to talk about paper roads, and if you
haven't heard about paper roads, we will tell you exactly
what a paper road is after two o'clock. For those
of you out there and there's a lot of you.

(38:29):
Have you got a paper road on your property or
you use them on a regular basis you're a hunter, tramper,
fisher person. Have you come into any issues with using
a paper road at rubs? Land owners up the wrong
way if they've got a paper road on their property
and every man and his dog tries to use it. So,
if that's you, give us a call. One hundred and
eighty T and eighty is that number to call? Nineteen
ninet Two's the text New Sport on weather Fast Approaching.

(38:52):
You're listening to Matt and Tyler. Have you having a
great Tuesday afternoon?

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Talking with you all afternoon? It's Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams
Afternoons us talk.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Six Fast too.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
Welcome back into the show.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Have you having a great day?

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Do you sort out that pie thing with kat So?
Cat was teaching us before saying I've got pies. You
want pies? She sent four pie emojis. He says, I'll
deliver you pies. Do you want pies? I'm trying to
sell pies, but I'm trying to give you lots and pies,
but you're not responding.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Did you respond, well, I haven't responded yet, but she's
still coming through. So the latest is I'll bring you
some pies tomorrow. Then the next one, what's the eddies?
I need to tixt it back? And then she did say,
think you love you? Oh Andrew did you give the
Maybe Andrew gave the address. But there's also one here
from Donnie kiddy, guys, you want some blueberries to complement the.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Pies, Donny from the Mott. I don't know where Donnie
is from. Donnie Donnie, Donny from the Mott, Donny from
the Mott. Don't be confused by the rocks that he's got.
He's still Donny, Donnie from the Mott, with his blueberries,
the best blueberries, the best blueberries in New Zealand. Donnie
from the Mott.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Hey, if that's blueberry Donnie from the Mott, we'll take
your blueberries.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
He's the only person in New Zealand it's got worse
feet than me, Donnie from the Mott.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
That can't be true.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
He's got a hole in his foot. He's making the
best blueberries you've ever seen with a hole in his foot.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Donnie. Can you see him through a picture of your foot?

Speaker 2 (40:16):
And I'll be the judge of that, I'll show you
so if you haven't been keeping up to date with
the exciting developments on Matt and Tyler Afternoons, I posted
a picture of my post marathon running foot. Yeah, and
I've got a lot of abuse about having an orangutan toe.
But Donnie from the Mott don't can be fused about
the rocks that he's got. Who's still Donnie from the

(40:38):
Mott sent me a picture of his foot and it
had a hole in it.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Whereabouts is this hole? And he must be at the
top of the foot. You can't have a hole in
the back, I mean, and how did he get this hole?
I've got so many questions about Donnie from the Mott.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
The hole in his foot was in the middle of
his foot, And.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
What's the story behind That's say Donnie from the Mott
with the blueberries with a hole in his foot.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
You can sometimes just get a hole in your foot.
It happens.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
There's a good story behind that, I'm sure. I mean,
how dangerous are blueberries?

Speaker 4 (41:08):
Is my question? It happens to the best of us.
The hole in the foot.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
I don't know why I'm looking for this because it's
not not helpful to anyone that's listening.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Well, nothing's going to stab you're a rangutang feet. There's
too many gaps on your foot to anything to pierce through.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
So the answer to the question do we want blueberry scent,
the answer to that is yes. And the answer to
the question do we want pie scent as yes.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
And whatever else you've got send it in.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, nine two nine two please, We'll take everything we
can get.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
One of the perks of the job. Now I'm obsessed
with this.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah, I really want to see Donnie's foot with the
doll in it.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
You know what you don't? You don't you don't actually
want to see it. I will show you it, but
you don't.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Can people still go somewhere to see your your minkey foot?

Speaker 2 (41:47):
No, it's come down. It was just on on my
story at man heath in Z's. You can see a
picture on my Instagram of me on the cover of
Woman's Weekly.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
That was nice, actually, very very nice. Yeah, I just
gave it a light before. Actually that's far better than
your foot.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
For Variety charity. Yeah, myself, Matilda, Rice and Leehart. It's
a beautiful photo, great charity Variety charity.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
But anyway, anyway, we'll lose nine tracked. We're off piece
to you, Tyler, we still got any listeners. Let's have
a chat about paper roads. We've already had so many
ticks about this. So it's a story in the Herald
about the paper roads. And if you don't know what
the paper roads are. Effectively, they are roads that are
owned by the local council or the n ZTA. But

(42:30):
the roads that are not fully formed or maintained, a
lot of them are just on hence the name paper
so they're just on records. But many people wouldn't be
able to tell that they are a road.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Good afternoon, fell as. I have a paper road that
runs beside my property and out to a river. But
the paper road suddenly stops well before the river. My
property has river access that runs right beside the paper
road and directly out to the river over some of
my unfenced property. It's unfenced because of the amount of
times in the year that that part is flooded. The
paper road part stops at a gate before crossing onto

(43:01):
my property. This gate was put in back in twenty
twenty one when there was a massive flood event that
devastated my entire property and neighbors. He can and council
then got involved. He can then needed to get equipment
down to the river and then put a gate and
at the end of the paper road for.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
Complete river access. But then this is complicated.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
But they then made it a cross over onto my
property as well as I already had an old track
that they could see and open up more. That's where
my problems start. That's where you can he can can
put a padlock on the gate where the actual paper
road stops, but didn't put any signs up making people
aware that that was where the paper road stops. I'm

(43:43):
more than happy to let people walk across my small
stretch of land for access, but I do draw the
line when they want to drive down as it causes
where and a tear on that part of the track.
And then they start bush bashing on my property.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
This is quite a good story.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Next minute, they are in the middle of my property
and think this is perfect for hunting on or planting
a plot of dope. I am a small landowner, so
shooting in and around this area is a problem. That's
my massive problem at the moment. Cheers Jodi.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Wow, that is a massive problem. With the paper road.
There's a lot going on there.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
There is a lot going on in paper roads. It's
going to be a great chat. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Do you use paper roads? Do you have paper roads
going through your country? Is this the first time you've
ever heard the word paper road?

Speaker 7 (44:26):
Like me?

Speaker 4 (44:26):
There's fifty five thousand kilometers of paper road.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
But it's interesting because they were laid out so essentially
as you were saying before, Tyler, there's all these roads.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
There may just be.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Two tracks, correct, And they're basically roads that have never
been developed.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
They haven't been tar sealed, they managed at all, but
they are lines on the map.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Yep, it's crazy, it is. And we'll give you a
little bit more history about the paper roads. But if
you've got one on your property, how much of a
headache is it? And if you're a hunter tramper, how
often do you use these paper roads? And if you
ever run into any issues with the landowners, love to
hear from you. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
that number to call? It's twelve bars too.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Wow. Your home of afternoon talk Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams
afternoons call oh eight hundred eighty eighty US talk zib.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Very good afternoon suit is a quarter past too. So
we're talking about paper roads around New Zealand, fifty five
thousand k's of them, and it is causing a bit
of drama for landowners and for hunters, trampers, fisher people
when wanting to use those paper roads. Apparently anyone can,
but it annoys the hell out of landowners.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
And I have just shown you the picture of my
friend Donnie Heckler's foot. Yeah, I saw it, Johnny Fan
the mott from Mill Creek Orchard and Mochueka.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
You gave me a warning. Yeah, so it was a
fair warning. But man, oh man, I did not expect
that that was a massive whole.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
He's got a hole in his foot.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
He's faced a lot of adversity running as a blueberry
farm this year with the weather and stuff. But the best,
the best blueberries this.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
Country has ever created, this world's ever created from Milk
Creek Orchard anyway.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yep, and we'll take his blueberries. Donn If you're still listening, Oh,
one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
F Yona Yeshi, guys, how are you good paper roads.

Speaker 20 (46:09):
Yeah, we've got property up in Dargable Way and the
property backs onto Rypiero Beach, so anyone knows the area.
There's Bailey's Beach which is through popular Glink Scully is
at further south from that, and we are at further
south again and we have a paper road track that

(46:32):
runs right from a main road down to the beach,
so it's a great access and it runs through our
property and then alongside our property of it, so it's really.

Speaker 18 (46:49):
Great to have.

Speaker 20 (46:50):
You know, we always like to try and keep open
with everybody to use, but we are the ones that
end up funding all of the maintenance on the road
right and quite often the council don't maintain anything on it.
So if we get a storm or there's a washout,
we're the ones that put down some sort of drainage
and gravel to try and make it.

Speaker 18 (47:08):
Still useful for everybody there.

Speaker 20 (47:10):
We've been ten ten thousands maintaining this road.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Good on you so that there's no obligation for you
to do that.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
You're doing that out of the cardness of your heart
because you think it's a it's a good thing for
people to use.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Because there's there's no obligation.

Speaker 20 (47:22):
Is there no no obligation at all, But yeah, there's
lots of people use that. So there's people write their
horses down the road to the beach. There's people to
take their dogs for from the quad bike down to
the beach. And the troubles they're getting is because of
the likes of URYV to shut off to the four
wheel drives. Now that we're getting throngs of four whel

(47:44):
drive clubs coming up there, and they could be like
a convoy of like twenty to twenty five cars, right.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
That's taking the person that's taking liberty.

Speaker 20 (47:57):
They're going down. When they come back up, they really
eat the road up.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
And so what's what's what's the state of the road
is it? Is it gravel, is a chipped or is
it just a fan said yeah, right, yeah, the.

Speaker 20 (48:12):
Kids who can't get up, we'll do that.

Speaker 21 (48:14):
And always needs rescuing.

Speaker 20 (48:16):
So because we're the closest house, they're come knocking on
the door going you've got a tractor, gets stuck, boys entertaining,
but also things like we've got areas of natural landscape
that the council sign office nobody can do anything with,
and so we try and keep vehicles off of there.

(48:38):
And so we've put a big, rely great big log
tree across the entrance of people don't drive on those
particular areas, but sure enough they come along with the
foiler drives chains and just tow them out and do.

Speaker 21 (48:50):
What they want to do.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
That must that must make you that that would be frustrating,
as you say, because you're putting all this effort and
you're being very generous, You're you're making it available for people,
and then people take the money and take advantage.

Speaker 20 (49:07):
Yeah, yeah, and it is. They just frustrating when you
get the big, the massive four wheel driver and international
drivers too down by twenty five cars queued up down
the track, and you know other people are trying to
use it as well, just you know, locals or somebody
to trying to do a dog walk or something. You
can't get through all these four whel drivers are sitting

(49:30):
there in their vehicles.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
So we might have just lost Fiona. She's just taken
down by big brick drivel.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Right, yeah, Fida, Hopefully we get you there we go,
you're back.

Speaker 14 (49:44):
Now.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
Hopefully you can still hear me, Fiona. So is there
anything you guys can do as the council said anything.
Obviously they legally own it, but they do nothing with it.

Speaker 20 (49:52):
No, they do nothing with it. So they maintain the
road for the first like ten meters and then it
goes for like four or five kilometers after that, which
they don't touch.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
What would happen if you just stop maintaining it or
you decided it was too much for you with these
convoys of four whel drives and you just put a
gate up, or or you blocked it off. What would
happen to you then? Would the would the council come
out and remove that or well?

Speaker 12 (50:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 20 (50:20):
Actually I'd hate to be that sort of personalized that
would say that's that.

Speaker 18 (50:24):
You can't use the.

Speaker 11 (50:27):
God.

Speaker 18 (50:27):
That's a key we thing to do.

Speaker 20 (50:28):
I think to have access to these places that in
other countries you know, they wouldn't let you do because
of you get food or something. But I think it's
a lot more humans in a way to okay, you
can use it. We're just try and be respectful, but
you always get the odd idiots. Yeah, well you'll keeping it, keep.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
It open, and you guys are great New Zealanders. Do
you put up any signs like please be respectful? Of
our road, and don't be a dickhead when you're in here.

Speaker 20 (51:00):
We have people coming back up the track. We'll actually
said to them, please don't use this track to come
back up with maintenance on this road as privately funds
and they can go along the beach another ten kilometers
and get an easy access up from there so they
don't have to use our road to go back up.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Well, I mentioned, you know, you're on a farm, you're
pretty busy. You know, you've got a lot on How
much of your time and resources do you spend on
this paper road that's just been arbitrarily shoved through your property,
you know, maybe in eighteen sixty or something.

Speaker 12 (51:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean we were spending a couple
of full days a year over summer time just trying
to maintain it. And if we've had a big form,
what's something like that, then we've got to go down
and maintain it. And if I put a post up
on the local community page and please don't use the
track it's really monthed after a storm, then the locals

(51:53):
just see it as sport and get out there for driving. No, no,
we can conquer that. Better's break fun.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Idiots, They deserve to be stuck. There's a good text
here for you own it. Sees it sounds like a
business plan towing out cars at one hundred bucks apot.
It's not a silly idea.

Speaker 12 (52:11):
Yeah that too.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Chop up, chop up the track, make it's steeper and
then charge them to get out. Thank you so much, Fiona,
and good on you guys. That's that's awesome that you
go through all that out of the kindness of your heart.
You don't have to do that. And just to make
other people's lives better. That's that's a definition of great
New Zealand. It's good on your Fiona. I appreciate your call.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Oh eight, one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number
if you're facing something similar like Fiona, you've got a
paper road on your property, or you've come into some
hassles when you've tried to use one love to hear
from you.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
Yeah. And if you use paper roads that are through
other people's property, are you respectful? Yeah? Or you're just
chopping it up and using it as a challenge when
you see it on the community page, Yeah, go on,
mount it up.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
It is twenty three past two.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Matt Heathen Taylor Adams afternoons. Call oh, eight hundred eighty
ten eighty on Youth Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Twenty five past two, and we're talking about paper roads
around the country. If you're a landowner with a paper
road on your property, how's it going?

Speaker 4 (53:09):
I had one hundred eighty ten eighty is that number?
There's bloody fifty five killing me.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Fifty five thousand, five thousands better than fifty five fifty
five thousand kilometers of paper roads in New Zealand. So
they're not up keeped by any agency. They just tracks
through people's land. Hey guys, great show again today. I
own a sixty acre beach and bush block on a
Great Barrier Island, the oldest land served aid in the
eighteen hundreds. There was no quantity surveyor in New Zealand,

(53:36):
so they chopped it up on paper in the UK
as though it was a flat wow put the roads
on the ridge lines impossible to make or keep too.
And they ever bought an adjoining block that the paper
road was ten yards off. That made one and trespassed
over ten of us getting home. What I was charged
and confected of tresfast just by trying to get home
to my children on my bike.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Crazy. That is crazy. Sounds like a dirkhead of a neighbor.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
I had one hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've got
a paper road story, b welcome.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
To the show.

Speaker 18 (54:10):
Here you going, guys, Hey, this one's a doozy. On
Napier Hill. There's a place called Keviner Road. Okay, you go.
You go along Cavaner Road, which is around about three
hundred meters long, and then it comes to a sort

(54:31):
of a wire fence. But the paper road goes off
the cliff, which is about one hundred meters, comes down,
would land land on the houses down below, and goes
out to Carlisle Street. Honestly, if someone was actually reading
a map and just says no, no, we go through,

(54:53):
it would make the news.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
So this must be a similar situation to that text
I just read out where this was that paper road
was laid down from a map without any thought of
topography from the other side of the world.

Speaker 18 (55:07):
Yeah, well that's a minimum, because honestly, you're on that cliff,
you're steering down. This last thing you want to do
is drive off.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
It, honestly, But sometimes people get put on paper roads
by the GPS.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Don't they.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
So someone's something, you know, especially back in the day
with the you know when when before the phones were
involved in their updating stuff. People on navman's I was
going over to Ekero and I just followed a I
saw this road and I was like, oh, this is
really quick way to get over to Ekoa. And then
I ended up just on a paper road, just growing
through someone's property and some tracks. So there are idiots

(55:45):
like me that might they might just follow that road
over the edge.

Speaker 18 (55:49):
Yeah, but to be honest, the person that wrote this
map or drew this map up in England would probably
read about the person going over the cliff following his
road worldwide because it's definitely make the news.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, Well, although that person that drive that map might
have died one hundred and fifty years ago.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
They'll be laughing in their grave. Made Bruce, thank you
if you called Bruce. Appreciate that. Jo Han Bruce.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Do you do you ever drive up that road and
then you know, is there any use in it up
until the point that goes off into a sheer face?

Speaker 18 (56:22):
Oh yeah, there's a whole lot of houses on both sides.
I used to live on the house right at the end.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
Yeah, all right, and.

Speaker 18 (56:30):
We could be able to appear on the deck. Expect
your son guad just to go.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
And no one gave it a go. No one got close.

Speaker 18 (56:38):
Well no, but there are some idiots out there would
probably give it a go.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
They definitely are. That's that's that's for sure. Thanks for corning,
Bruce boys. The adjoining land landowners can have free grazing
of paper roads and they don't pay rates for that land.
To control outsiders placed lock gates with a sign stating
the landowners contact details for excess Jeers Charlie.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
But apparently you can't, No, you can't put a gate
because there was a story in this article of a
great New Zealander down in Dunedin Upper y Tati. So
he's got a paper road running through two blocks of lands.
His name's Mark Spencer. But the problem he's got is
when he's trying to move cattle across that paper road,
they escape onto the highway. So he wanted to put

(57:19):
up a gate at the end of the paper road
before it gets to the highway, so when he's moving
the kettle, they don't jump onto the main road, you know, And.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
He's not allowed to do that.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
No, he tried, and the neighbor got a bit, got
a bit shitty with him and told the council and
they see, you're going to leave that gate open. So
now he's got Now he's gots running the muck.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
People want to use the paper road for free going
across someone's land, but they can't be bother getting out
open and shut a gate or I mean, that's ridiculous
if it's going to stop cattle getting out and it's
through someone's property already, they're letting someone drive through their property, right,
which is good on them.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yeah, I mean they have to, but good on them.

Speaker 8 (57:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
And you know if you have people like we're talking
to before, Fiona, who's up keeping that road, but you've
got to let them have a gate so they can
stop the cattle getting out.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Come on, I'll just read a bit more so Spencer.
He put those gates Mark Spencer and the neighbor disputed
the move. The issue ended up in court Spencer loss.
So the gates have to stay permanently open. Here's the quote.
Annie and I tried moving the cows the other day
and they bolted as they do, and hit it off
down the road. It's a night here trying to get
past a herd of cows when they're on the trot
down a narrow road. As I'm sure you can imagine,

(58:27):
this is a nice quote for him at the end.
I'm a builder, I'm a farmer. I deal with practicality,
logic and common sense. I haven't got time to piss
around with bloody gates. It should be simple and straightforward,
but it's not.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
If the counsel is going to put that, they should
at least come in and put a kettle grate down.
Kettle grid, you.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
Know, yeah, yeah, I mean, just help out poor old Mark.
And you can't have you can't have cows running down
the road. Just let them close the blooming gate. I mean,
how hard is it? Yeah, there's the precious people out there, and.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Just get out of your bloody car, your lazy bastards,
and open the gate and then.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Close the Oh eight, one hundred eighty ten eighty is
the number to call. If you've got a paper road
on your property, how's it going? And if you're a
hunter or tramper or fisher person, how often do you
use these paper roads to get to the spot that
you love?

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Really?

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Can you hear from new headlines with Raylene coming.

Speaker 17 (59:10):
Up US talks at the headlines with Blue Bubble taxis
It's no trouble with a Blue bubble. Winston Peters is
taking a cracket Labor after it invited him to support
their bill to abolish the contentious Regulatory Standards Act. Peters
recently promised his party would campaign on scrapping the Act,

(59:31):
but is now accusing Labor of using the issue as
a political football. Fonterra's fore warning farmers falling global dairy
prices could hit their bottom lines after cutting its seasonal
farmgate milk payout forecast. Police are investigating a fraud complaint
over a motorcycle event claiming to be a charity fundraiser

(59:52):
for Hart Kids, New Zealand. Meanwhile, police have arrested two
more men in relation to the suspected homicide of why
can I forty five year old Michael Kenneth Tofts. There
are now five charged with wounding with intent. A christ
chief has four months community detention for inappropriate touching and
comments to fourteen staff at the restaurant where he works,

(01:00:14):
as well as paying it's victim one thousand dollars reparation
and cheeky lesson and aging and body confidence. You can
see the full column at ends at Herald Premium not
back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Thank you very much, Ray Lean and we are talking
about paper roads.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Have you got one on your property? How is it
going for you?

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty as a number
to call?

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
Hello? Are you too?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Just walking in and out of the house, and keep
thinking of that song paper roses, Well, hearing's not the
best Chris, what are you talking about?

Speaker 22 (01:00:43):
So this song Marie osmondom, that's lovely, Oh beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
There you go, Maria Osmond.

Speaker 9 (01:01:03):
Gee.

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
She had good teeth and she.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Had great teeth. Yeah, great family.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Sure you've got a farm, you've got paper paper road problems?

Speaker 21 (01:01:14):
Yeah, we have had over the years, mostly with hunters, right,
who use the old you can't stop us excuse, and
then they bring in take dogs and several several occasions
are the dogs of mould sheep and lots of them
thousands of dollars worth. Wow, and you don't get paid

(01:01:37):
what they're worth by insurance. You get a little bit,
but not not the full loss that you take. And yeah,
sometimes it just about comes to blows. Try and explain
to them, because yeah, they don't.

Speaker 18 (01:01:50):
They don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
So so when they're using the paper road, they're going
somewhere else though. They can't use the paper road to
hunt on your property, can they see it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
That's what they try to do, right right, Well, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
So, that's that's that's another thing. It's one thing to
have a paper road across your property. It's another thing
where someone lives halfway up it and then releases their
pig dogs out on your on your livestock.

Speaker 21 (01:02:13):
Yeah, yeah, they use it. I suppose they use it
for a tool to poach m.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
So you think that it's a scam like so that
they are actually going after the livestock as opposed to.

Speaker 21 (01:02:27):
No, no, they're not going after the live stock. They're
going after hunting, hunting pigs and things like that. It's
just unfortunate that the dogs, yeah, aren't not proof.

Speaker 6 (01:02:36):
So, yeah, they.

Speaker 21 (01:02:37):
Accidentally go in mol sheets because it's fun.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Yeah, yes, where you're well within your right as a
farmer to shoot those dogs if you see them coming
on to your property.

Speaker 21 (01:02:47):
Yeah, problem is sometimes we don't we don't know until
the next day.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
It's the weekend, yeah, right now, and it, it would
be very hard to find out which particular hunter did that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
So so the insurance yeah, because because I.

Speaker 21 (01:02:59):
Mean sometimes the dogs they just get left behind. And
then so one day it took us a week to
catch two of these dogs and they killed thirty.

Speaker 18 (01:03:07):
Thirty lamb.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
So what kind of scumbag just abandons their dogs?

Speaker 21 (01:03:14):
Well, they don't abandon them, they just take off.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
So the dogs have run off because they're more excited
about some lammies than they are on the pigs. And
then that the hunters can't find.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
Their dogs and then they're run away yeaheah, right, there's
been confrontation with them as well as they're trying to
go up there. Complicated that does that become a legal
issue then.

Speaker 21 (01:03:35):
Only if you can identify them?

Speaker 6 (01:03:37):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
What do the police say in those circumstances? I suppose
there's only so much they can do if the hunters
come and gone, Yeah, no evidence.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
So how does the livestock insurance work in that? Say,
if that dog's you.

Speaker 21 (01:03:51):
Know, destroyed, I think that I think it covers up
to twenty thousand, you know, if they're up there, if
there's three or three or so of them when they're
up there, for a while. They can do a lot more.

Speaker 18 (01:04:03):
Damage than that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
How far away is the paper road from where you
actually live, Sarah?

Speaker 21 (01:04:11):
You know we live, We live a few k's away
from that particular block, so we're up there.

Speaker 14 (01:04:15):
All the time.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Yeah, right, so you know, you've got no idea what's
going on up there.

Speaker 18 (01:04:21):
So we're going to have life.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
So is there nothing the council can do? Can they
not look at that and see the problems you're having
as a farmer with you know, these rogue dogs taking
down your sheep and say we're just going to take
that off the map.

Speaker 14 (01:04:33):
No, it won't Why, I don't know.

Speaker 21 (01:04:37):
I don't like paper roads.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Yeah, we can tell.

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
Well, it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
It's one thing to it's one thing to you know,
force someone to have this, you know, access for people. Sure,
if they're just going to go to the beach or
something like that, that's nice. But when people start, you know,
abusing it, hunting on your land or you know, pig
dogs attacking livestock, that that seems like something that someone
should come in and help you out with. That's that's
a lot to ask from from farmers, isn't it. That's

(01:05:04):
that's a lot more than just you're going to drive
through my property on your way somewhere else.

Speaker 21 (01:05:09):
I think you'll find it happens smaller than you realize.

Speaker 18 (01:05:11):
On farms.

Speaker 21 (01:05:12):
Yeah, with people, people using the paper roads as an
excuse to go in there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Yeah. Oh well, best of luck with that, Sarah. That
sounds like a really complicated and frustrating issue.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Yeah, that is a nightmare. Thank you very much for
giving us a call. O eight one hundred and eighty
ten eighty can to hear your stories about paper roads.
If you've got a problem like Sarah, really, can ever check.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Carl says, Just tell Sarah to put drainage ditches in
the road. Then see how many try to use the
paper road. Charge five one hundred dollars a pop to
tow them out.

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
That is some thinking. Yeah they get their foot drive stock,
then shame on them. It is nineteen to three taking
more of your call. Shortly you're back in the mote.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons used talks, they'd.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Be very good. Afternoons you have an a fascinating chat
about paper roads on people's properties and the drama they're
having to face.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Guys, can you please clarify what a paper road is.
I don't know what a paper roaders, I don't know
what you're talking about. For the ignorant like me that
doesn't know what is a paper road, that is a
fair point.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
I don't think we've explained enough what is eachulair paper road.

Speaker 4 (01:06:15):
We've said paper road four hundred times.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
We certainly have. So they are simply part of a
legal road network that is not formed or maintained by
the roading authority. So for local roads, that's your local council.
For state highways, it's n ZTA.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
So they're called paper roads because they're essentially lines on
a map, and a lot of them were laid out
in the you know at eighteen fifty, Yeah, you know,
way back in the day. And some of them were
lined out from overseas, so they don't take into account
any kind of topography.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Yeah, Governor Hobson at the time eighteen forty, and you
just decided to put some paper roads down, Kevin, you
got one on your land.

Speaker 14 (01:06:52):
Yeah, yeah, I have. Actually it's not as bad as
what Sarah situation is, but we've got a little lake
on our property nice and down one side of the
lake is a paper road. So all the fish and
and go down there and walk down there on the
paper road. The issue is our driveways on the other

(01:07:13):
side and where a klimeter long. So Google Maps has
actually falsely labeled how driveway is the paper road. What
happens is everyone drives down our driveway and I stopped them,
and I've got a private property signs out, gates out,
and they go, mate, this is a paper road I'm
allowed to drive through. I say, no, it's not a
paper road. There's a walking track on the other side,

(01:07:35):
which it legally is because I've seen it on my title.
But they say, oh no, Google Maps knows better than
you do. Drive down your property. How annoying around my
fat It's quite frustrating.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
It would be pretty hard to contact Google. Imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Imagine there's no one at Google you could bring up
and say, sort out your match.

Speaker 14 (01:07:54):
I had, Yeah, after the tenth time I reported that
they've taken it off. However, yes, people still drive down
it because they say no, no, no, there's a paper
road here it's and they just drive down it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
So, yeah, are people nice about it?

Speaker 14 (01:08:09):
With that actual paper road.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
People nice about it, Kevin. Do you did they go? Oh, sorry,
I know that.

Speaker 14 (01:08:15):
They being cheeky, and that's a good excuse to go
for a drive around someone's farm.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Dirty. Yeah, so can you put a gates up or
something or are we big big signed same private property.
I suppose they wouldn't ignore that, wouldn't they, because they
think they're right.

Speaker 21 (01:08:29):
Correct.

Speaker 14 (01:08:30):
So the actual paper road are fantastic. It gives people
and have no problems with that. And all those who
respect the paper roads, they save their purpose.

Speaker 11 (01:08:39):
That's fantastic.

Speaker 14 (01:08:40):
So they all go fishing, have no problems with that.
It's when it's when the cheeky ones sort of go,
just go, I'll just go for a drive and I'll
ignore everything else and and and then I'll scope for
a drive.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
So yeah, now, Kevin, So that lake that's on your property,
that that that's your lake though, isn't it?

Speaker 14 (01:09:01):
Well, it's right out and no, because it's right near
the road, right, they had to walk around.

Speaker 6 (01:09:05):
It legally it is.

Speaker 14 (01:09:08):
It is not our late, so we don't. We don't encompass.

Speaker 11 (01:09:13):
The whole lake.

Speaker 14 (01:09:13):
So right, and I love people fishing there. That's fantastics.
Great to go down and talk to them.

Speaker 18 (01:09:18):
No issues.

Speaker 14 (01:09:19):
I'm not worried about that actual paper road. It's when
people go off the paper road thinking that right, is
the real issue.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Really, Yeah, they're just taking the path. Yeah, well, I'm
good luck with that, Kevin. I'm glad that Google's sort
of that out is what about Apple maps? Have they
Are they sending people up there or.

Speaker 11 (01:09:39):
You know, I'm not sure?

Speaker 14 (01:09:41):
You give up? Yeah, yeah, you can do so much.

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Yeah, Hey, thank you so much for you call, Kevin.
Appreciate that you got to ring waves. You gotta ring
you're doing Apple maps. There's a lot of adminds baring
a lot of people up your paper road. Yeah, your
non paper road.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call, Luca, How are you?

Speaker 9 (01:10:00):
A good thing?

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Still is very well. So you're in an outdoor industry
and you use quite a bit of or quite a
few paper roads.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
I'm in the out to education industry, so we use
paper roads all the time for access into places, and
I think we're very fortunate in New Zealand to have them.
And I think the main issue with the paper roads
is just the whole respect thing, especially for the farmers
and the road. You know, whenever we use them, we
try to form a good relationship with the farmer, you know,

(01:10:29):
finding out who owns the farm and dropping off some
bears or you know, twenty bucks cash and you split
it between a carload of people and then it's next
to nothing. But look, you do get some farmers taking
the piece of it by putting locks on their gates
and trying to charge one hundred and twenty dollars for
a vehicle whatever. But end of the day, most farmers
are good if you just show some respect to them.

(01:10:50):
There the earlier hall of she was saying, how much
farmers put into maintaining these roads, and it's dead right.
You know, we're very fortunate that the farmers do that
and show them some respect.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
And when you go and show the farmers respect, do
they they appreciate it? Does it just lighten the whole
thing up? And I imagine it makes the whole experience,
you know, nicer for everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:11:13):
You know, they've come to save us a few times
on occasions when we've been out on overnight trips and
the rivers flooded or wherever, and they've you know, we've
contacted them and they've driven a long way to come
transport us out and all that stuff. So very fortunate
to have them, and you know, big thanks to all
the farmers that do put their money into maintaining them.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
Yeah, you're doing it right, Luca.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
I'm just thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
There's that there's a tramp actually near the West Coast
called Griffin Creek, and there's a paper road right the
side it that you can park your car up. But
if you treat the farmer nice and you give them
some beer, they look after, you know, over their car
for you where you're on this tramp, which is a
godsend because so many cars get broken into if.

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
You don't give them beer, then what they flip the
car over, roll it back onto the main road and
say sorry. Yeah protection, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:11:54):
That paper road up there, because they're building a hydro
scheme up the top of that river. That paper road
is actually illegal that the hydro company put in without
any consent.

Speaker 11 (01:12:03):
Right.

Speaker 9 (01:12:04):
That's a big topic for the environmental.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Yeah, So where I parked was pretty much you'd know
the place as you're heading towards Griffin Creek carts and
over the hill and you've got that farm there. It's
pretty much the old highway right, and I felt bad
driving onto their property and then he had to go
and knock on the door and stage you might have
a park here, but is that so that one has
been put in illegally?

Speaker 6 (01:12:25):
So there's right.

Speaker 5 (01:12:27):
Yeah, so they're trying to put a hydro scheme up there,
and then right when you turned off the highways a
little park and it kind of just goes down to
the river and that's the end of it. But they've
pushed a one further up without any consent at all.
And then pretty much after they did it was like, hey,
why'd you do this? And they're like, oh, well it's
here now, too bad. Yeah yeah, so yeah, I've been

(01:12:48):
up there with some people before just to have a
look at it all.

Speaker 9 (01:12:50):
And it's a pretty big scene in the environmentalists.

Speaker 11 (01:12:54):
World at the moment.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
Interesting, it's a nice heart, it's great walk tough.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Yeah, that is got on your Lucas Tyler says, you're
doing it the right way. Yeah, So it's a bit
of given throw if you if you fire up the
paper road and let your pig dogs go loose and
eat the farmers lambs, then things that can get Argie bargie. Yeah,
if you come past so some respect, then I imagine
most farmers are going to be.

Speaker 4 (01:13:16):
Cool and pull you out of a hole when you've
fallen it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
Yeah, it sounds pretty easy. Oh one hundred and eighty
ten eighty is that number of cool. We've got full
boards at the moment. If you can't get through, keep trying.
Nine to three the issues.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
That affect you, and a bit of fun along the way.
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons News Talks. It be.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
News talksb it is six to three talking about paper roads.

Speaker 4 (01:13:38):
What are roads?

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
Paper roads are legal roads, but they haven't been maintained
and they're owned by councils or the n ZTA.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
Ah, that's what a paper road is. Brian, welcome the show.
Get how are you very good? Thank you?

Speaker 6 (01:13:54):
Hey, Look I've.

Speaker 16 (01:13:55):
Got a story here that's I'm seventy seven now, So
this happened about fifty years ago, when I suppose I
think the are a lot simpler than those those But
I've been one hundred all my life because those days
one day with Leatherwig's pay, So when I wasn't working,
I was at huntings. But we just involved the ring

(01:14:18):
it out of gorge on a river that separated Mespotania
at the one next door, and we had studied our
maps and showed us showed the paper road. So a
friend and I went up there and driving up the
river and we got followed by the neighboring station owner
who told us we were creation. We said, we went

(01:14:41):
and we were in carry on. We got to the
first river crossing with the floods, so we had a
couple and head of the home. We got to Peel
Forest and we were stopped by the police. They took
our rifles. We end up in court three months later.
Dot was one of the accusers. We lost the case.

(01:15:04):
It costs one hundred dollars each and we'll give them
back their rifles. Us have said to us that he's
sorry he didn't do enough research. We should have won
the case. So just one of those simple things that
happens and idea. So that's still going on today.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Right, So you had every right there was a paper
road and you every right to be on it, but
no one in the court seemed to know that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
That's that's interesting.

Speaker 16 (01:15:27):
Yeah, well it was listed as a young guy just
started out at those days, we were still yourselness.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Always always go for the older lawyers.

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
How does it look things up on the internet back day?

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
You know, for for a lazy lawyer to just go,
oh yeah, there's the paper road to get probably go
down too some kind of council build and flip through
some papers, some microfiche to find out what was going on.

Speaker 16 (01:15:49):
Yeah, well it was a thing like I mean, I'm
a hundred of my life, I can't run climb the
hills now and I'm in the Cision rode. But it's
one of those things idea. So today, with all the
technology involved, it's a lot of easy for people to
go online and check these things out a bit more thoroughly,
I suppose.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Yeah, absolutely, Thank you so much for your cool Brian.
I'm got to go to the news. We've got full
lines and so many texts coming through on paper roads.
We keep this going a little bit after three.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
Tailfe Absolutely, you got to give the people what they want.
Can you hear from you? Oh wait, one hundred and
eighty ten eighty you've got a problem with a paper
road on your property, or if you use them on
a regular basis, come on through nine two ninety two
as the text number.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
This is a shocking story. Cost of farm one hundred
thousand dollars to deal with their paper road?

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Who up next? Your new homes are insateful and entertaining.
Talk It's Mattie and Taylor Adams afternoons on news Talk.

Speaker 18 (01:16:47):
Sebby.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
Good day to you, welcome back into the show. It
is seven past three now, Tyler. This morning you came
into work and you said to me, You says Matt.
He says, mat I want to talk about paper roads.
I said, what's a paper road? I never even heard
of a paper road in my entire life. Yep, and
yet I'm now completely engrossed with paper road stories.

Speaker 4 (01:17:06):
They're incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
What is the paper so to explain it, and this
is my own words, they are simply part of the
legal road network that is not formed or maintained by
the road in authority. So for local roads that is
your local council. For state highways it's NZTA.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
So these are paper roads that have just been put
across the map. Sometimes they've been done, you know, in
the mid eighteen fifty or earlier, and they they're not
up kept by anyone, so they've never been They may
have been a road they thought they might have been
one day we're going to be tarmacked, but they never.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Were correct yep, one hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
So just gravel, they're just sometimes he just tracks straight
up bush.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
So to give you a little bit of history, around
eighteen forty, Queen Victoria issued instructions to Governor Hobson, and
the thirty forty third instruction was to appoint a survey
at General who would report particular lands to reserve or
to be surveyed for public roads or other internal communications,
whether by land or water. So effectively, Governor Hobson just
had a look at a map of New Zealand, he

(01:18:08):
might have not even been in the country, just from England,
and said, we think there should be some roads along
this area and this area, and then boom they became
effectively paper roads.

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
Governor Harpsen, paper roads plays across What did you see that?
Fifty five thousand kilimeters of paper roads? Please, And he
did it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
It's like listening to a documentary. That's perfect, that's exactly
how it happened.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
And then all these years later they're still causing all
kinds of problems and bringing all kinds of joy with
the access that they provide to beaches and hunting spots
and such.

Speaker 4 (01:18:43):
But spot on.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
You know, anytime you're driving through someone else's land and
as we're talking to Fiona before, she's you know, a
farmer and they have to spend a lot of their
own money, you know, looking after their paper roads. And
then sometimes hunters pig dogs run off and kill their lamps. Yeah,
so you can see there's a flash point. There isn't
there There certainly is. And here's an example of a
flash point. We had a paper road on our farm

(01:19:05):
that came to an end on our boundary. We got
it closed. It cost over one hundred thousand dollars because
the council valued the area at thirty five thousand per hectare,
but then added another thirty because we were desperate to
get it closed.

Speaker 4 (01:19:20):
We are not happy that is.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
I mean, shame on that council for taking advantage Martin
your thoughts on paper roads.

Speaker 11 (01:19:28):
I mean I missed a lot of what you just
said since the news and only caught the end of
your program, But I think you might have covered a little.

Speaker 17 (01:19:37):
But this.

Speaker 11 (01:19:39):
I kept hearing in the last fifteen minutes of the
last hour. The people are talking about these paper roads
on their property. Yes, they're not. They're legal roads, and
at any time the council can come and develop them.
And the last will maybe the second last caller he said, oh,
it's only a walking track. It maybe I've never heard
of that one. But the paper road is it comes

(01:20:03):
off another road. It's not just a piece of land
in the middle of somebody's property. Will be a legal
access way to that correct road. And these people who
are talking about it being on my property their property
maybe on either side of the paper road. And as
that chap said, you can't fence it off. It's not

(01:20:26):
yours to do it for.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
I see what you're say.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
Yeah, so technically it is through their land, but the
actual line of the paper road on the map and
the official title, that part of it is not the
farmer's property.

Speaker 4 (01:20:39):
It's the paper road. I see what it's saying, Martin. Yeah,
that makes sense.

Speaker 11 (01:20:42):
Yeah, yeah, So a lot of a lot of them
callers you've had, seem to think that they have legal
right to do something to that road or to block people.
It's a road that just hasn't been developed and ever
since eating forty nine's had reason to develop them or whatever.

Speaker 6 (01:21:00):
Do you do?

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
You have something for you know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
In this particular story, so the paper road goes through
a farmer's property and he wants to put gates on
it to stop his cattle coming out going out, not locked,
not a locked gate, but just so his cattle don't
wander off. So do you have sympathy for that, you know,
you know, you're still allowing access, but you've got gates
on their martin.

Speaker 11 (01:21:22):
Yeah, oh, you've got to have a sympathy for that,
especially when as I heard a couple of people, they
look after them and you know, and they've actually farmed
this paper road forever, and a lot of them that
I've used. You know, farmers are only too happy. Maybe
they know the legal standings of it, but they're only
too happy. And just you know, as long as you
stick to the paper road and don't wander off with
your dogs and go, you know, doing all the bad

(01:21:44):
things that were heard.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
But I mean that's hearing some of those stories, like Fiona,
she's spending all that money maintaining this road. The councils
should give them something or help them out in some way.
When people take advantage in their martin, you know, that's
what annoys me. It's like when people know their own
booms because the council can't be bothered. They can't just
dust their hands and say sorry, you're on your own
when they're spending their own money maintaining their property.

Speaker 18 (01:22:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:22:06):
Yeah, that's a gray area, isn't it. I mean if
they if they want to do it which enhances their property,
they're good on them. But you probably can you never
can get anything back from a council or the government.
I doubt need paper roads highways. I mean they're all
council property, but you know, it might enhance your property,
but I don't think you're going to get anything from

(01:22:28):
a council for your efforts.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
Yeah, thank you so much for you call a Martin.
Thanks for your thoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Paper roads and four by four enthusiasts are the scourge
of society.

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
Wow, it's okay, scourge.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
The worst thing that's happening in this country right now
is four by fours and paper roads. And why is
it that the four by four enthusiasts only drink Woodstock,
Bourbon and Cody's and leave all their rubbish behind. Your
four by four enthusiasts do seem to be a big
fan of woodstock burdens in the codies eight percent.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
If you're a four by four enthusiast, why do you
love your woodstock so much? It's a fair question. Well
it does seem to be just woodstock and codies.

Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
Well, someone can tell me if this is true.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Your insurance when you're four by four boring and if
you're a four by fourer an off roader, yep, you
might know this. There's different insurance when you're fully off road,
then there is when you're on a paper road. So
on a paper road you get the same insurance as
if you were on a normal you know, state road,
right right, Yeah, So that might be why the four

(01:23:28):
by fourests, if that's what you'd call them, want to
go hard up a paper road because you know, if
they run into a tree, then they get that. They
get this, you know, the insurance pays out the same
as if they were on you know, just a normal road.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
Makes a lot of sense if you are a four
by four, I love to hear from you if that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
As someone who uses paper roads for dock excess, plenty
of these landowners want to close them off to maintain
their private access to public land. Many are made so
inaccessible to vehicles by design. A good example is stonewall
in the wire Rappa three three five hundred submissions recently
eighty five percent oposed to closing it, yet the council
still did. It's now a four plus hour walk to

(01:24:07):
get to the beautiful land, and many examples of stations
in the South Island doing the same thing controversial.

Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call if you've had some problems with paper roads.
We want to hear from you. Beg very shortly. It
is fourteen pass three. This talk said be seventeen pass three.

Speaker 4 (01:24:24):
So now for four hours we've been hearing from Cat
about these pies. Tyler.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Yes, it's been a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:24:29):
I want to see you pies.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
And then we just got another text from her saying
send your address and I'll be there with pies before
mid day tomorrow morning.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
Yes, Cat, yes, right, I'm going to reply right now.
You do the address, yep, and we there's been a
lot of talk of these pies, so they better be
good care. I'm sure they will be.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
Nothing back from Donnie on the Ballberry.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
You know this isn't one of those practical jokes where
cat texts us all show saying I'm going to bring
pies in, and then we say yes, and then she
comes in and then there's a pie in the face gag.
That's not going to be able to talk about. I'm
assuming these are meat pies and not. She's just going
to come in and be a full clown show slap
slap pie in each face.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
I say, let's roll the dice. Either way we're getting
the pie either the face or in our face.

Speaker 4 (01:25:09):
See that's true. I mean even if she pie of
the face would still be there's still be something. Yeah, exactly,
still pass the day. David's you've got a paper road
shared with two neighbors.

Speaker 7 (01:25:19):
Yes, so I drive down where I come in my driveway,
I've got a paper road run down beside my place,
shared with the name on my right and across the
creek from me. The paper road goes into the other
neighbors place. Had a few debates about it, went to
the council and found that if the paper road has
not been formed and no one can use it, what

(01:25:43):
it mean formed, Well, it has to.

Speaker 5 (01:25:46):
Be like a paper road on paper.

Speaker 7 (01:25:48):
Yeah, it's it's just a paper road. A paper road
that's had it dug out and put shingles so that
it's going to be driven down. That's a formed paper road.

Speaker 4 (01:25:57):
But what about this?

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Some of these paper roads are just tracks, like there's
been enough cars driving up them that there's there's two
tracks through the through the grass. Is that enough to
be considered formed?

Speaker 14 (01:26:08):
David, No, No, it's three.

Speaker 7 (01:26:11):
I went through this because we had a whole big
horse treck coming through the place without even asking, and
one of the horses broke the leg because we pulled
the fence out down the middle of the paper road
and shifted back to the boundaries, and it stood in
the hole and broke its leg. And that's because they
never bothered, bothered asking anyone. So I went and found
out the legal termination and the termination and you're not

(01:26:36):
allowed to use the paper roads without the permission of
the home owners. And you can't just go on to
paper road if it hasn't had an actual roadway formed
on it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
So you've looked it up, David, You know you've done
the research here, But is that so? Where did you
read that? Because everything I was looked saying if it's
a paper road, that's the legal property of a council
or NZTA and anybody could use it.

Speaker 7 (01:27:01):
No, it's until it's a formed road, it's not actually
usable because this one goes right up and through and
into the forest and everything, and that no one uses
our paper oder. We just had these horse trek people
come and use it once perfectly, and I've never done
it again.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
Can you can you tell us the story of that?
That sounds like a horrific story. So what were your
dealings with the horse with the broken leg? Do you
have to go up and help or what happened then?

Speaker 5 (01:27:30):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:27:31):
I wondered what was going on and went over there,
and they'd already wrung someone else to come up, and
they put the horse down and took it away. But
as I said to the lead guys, what the hell
he is doing here? If if they had asked me,
I would have said, okay, they could have used it,
But they didn't ask me, and therefore they weren't aware
of any of the hazards that were on it, which

(01:27:52):
were post holes, because we just shifted the fences.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
Yeah, I mean, the sensible thing was to come and
talk to the landowners in the area and just say, look,
heads up, I'm going through there is that okay, And
then you would have told them.

Speaker 7 (01:28:07):
Conception people just because it's a paper road, they're allowed
to go up there. But it's only a paper road
on paper.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
But what about people that say that you don't own
you only own the land either side of the paper road.
The paper road is belongs to to you know whatever
news it?

Speaker 7 (01:28:25):
Yeah, well it doesn't your own to your boundary which
is alongside the paper road, but you have full right
access to use to the middle of the paper road
shared with your neighbor.

Speaker 4 (01:28:39):
Interesting. Thank you for you the horrible story about the horse.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
Yeah, I feel sorry for the horse.

Speaker 4 (01:28:43):
I remember once my.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
Dad buried a horse. You know, when a horse goes
down on the farm, that's a big hole.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
That's a big hole. Had a big animal. He had
to dig a big hole, but he didn't it dig
it big enough and there was just one one hoof
sticking out of the hole.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
I should love it that but that's quite an image
to Yeah, I mean, you know, how deep does your
dad want to digive? That's enough? It's enough.

Speaker 4 (01:29:06):
Well, I got most of it in there. That was
a sixteen hand horse. It's a big hole, that is.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
And I've got small hands as well. That's a big horse.

Speaker 4 (01:29:13):
Shannon was the horse's name?

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):
Did he?

Speaker 6 (01:29:15):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (01:29:16):
I was going to do.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
You know what's suspicious about this? My dad dug the
hole before the horse died. Suggested to me that it
was that that horse was scheduled for Bury Hill before
it was.

Speaker 3 (01:29:27):
It was it limping beforehand.

Speaker 4 (01:29:28):
Shannon was a real a hole that horse.

Speaker 19 (01:29:30):
Oh was it?

Speaker 4 (01:29:31):
Yeah? You could there was there was. He just put
Shannon pushed your dad too far, obviously. Shannon tried to
kill me once.

Speaker 3 (01:29:39):
I could see why it's a hole now.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
I was sledding through on it, you know, on you know,
there was a big snowfall. I was sledding through and
Shannon came at.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
Me anyway, rip Shannon, Yeah, with your hoof sticking out
of the ground.

Speaker 4 (01:29:54):
That that get got cut off and then dug and
then put in a smaller hole.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Your old man's a hard man, all right. It is
twenty two past three. We've got full boards at the moment.
Love to hear your stories about paper road problems back
in the mow.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Matt Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty on youthed Talk, said.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
The twenty five past three. We have been talking about
paper roads, but there's quite a few people that need
to hear more about Shannon, the horse who tried to
attack you and ended up in the ground with a
hoof hanging out.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Well, I just think it's suspicious that the hole the
Bobcap bobcat turned up dug the hole and then Shannon
passed away, because you got a lot of euthanasia going
on on our farm when I was group, But Shannon
was real a hell. Anyway, we're not talking about that.
So someone we just had this call before that was
saying that the farmer doesn't have to give access if

(01:30:49):
the road is unformed the paper road. This special says
that guy's wrong. I just googled the legal definition and
it doesn't have to be formed. Access is Steve, where
as Ben says he's on hundred percent correct. If the
road is not formed, then the council is liable if
they grant access. Right So and this text says, the
point is that they don't own paper. The farmer can

(01:31:10):
use it for grazing or fence it off just like
any other boundary. It was there when they purchased the property.
It's not their property. That last call is incorrect.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
Well that's put a spanner in the works, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
Well I've just looked this up here and it says
the public has the right to use unformed legal roads
colloquially known as paper roads to access the outdoors. I
think I mean by definition they're semi unformed. You know,
they're not fully No agency has maintained or laid the road.

(01:31:40):
Unformed legal roads are exactly what their name suggests, parcels
of land designated as legal roads but not physically constructed.
They have not been graveled, metaled, sealed, or permanently surfaced
by a council or NZTA. They can be a great
recreational as set priding public access to the outdoors.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
However, they are.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Often indistinguishable from private land and aren't shown on topo maps.
Local councils responsible for ensuring legal access to unformed legal roads.
They are not obliged to form or obtain the roads
as part of their managed road network. They are not
obliged to form or maintain the roads as part of
their managed road network.

Speaker 4 (01:32:17):
Why did it say that this is a terrible governmental side.
It's got the same.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
Sentence twice ai chet GPT.

Speaker 6 (01:32:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
New Zealand has about fifty five thousand companies of unformed
legal roads. Most are one chain wide an imperial measurement
equivalent to two point twenty point twelve meters.

Speaker 4 (01:32:35):
Wow, that's quite wide.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
Yeah, so that would mean David is wrong that it
doesn't really matter the state of the paper roads. It
does not belong to the landowner. It belongs to the
local council, ends inta. It doesn't matter if it's semi formed,
unformed whatever. Yeah, it's not your land.

Speaker 4 (01:32:49):
It's just a line. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Yeah, you can hit your your bloody cattle, can graze
on it, you can bury your horse on it, whatever
you want, but it's not yours.

Speaker 4 (01:32:59):
Get a k tell you mate.

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
Yeah, how you've been listening to your discussion of the
paper rows for some time. It has been going for
some time, I guess, having spent about twenty plus years
as a roading Assey Management local authority, I've seen it
or do or have done it all. And you last
comments that you made a pretty well stolen a lot

(01:33:25):
of the thunder, I mean, just some of the basics. Yes,
a paper road isn't formed, and that's got nothing to
do with any Bodlem council maintainer and formed road of course,
because there's nothing here to maintain. It's a bit like
you know, trying to paint your house when you've only
got the plans.

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
That's very good analogy.

Speaker 6 (01:33:44):
You can you cannot know what he can deny public
access to these roads. They are open to the public
at all times. A couple other points that have come
up during the day, is that a farmer I who's
got stocked there. Yes, you can put a cattle stop
across a paper road, or he can put a gate
on it. Now the gate, so I think you go

(01:34:07):
there with the approval of the authority, which we've already
talked about is the road controlling authority. That cannot be
locked and it must have a sign on it to
say it is a paper road and public access is permitted.
So that's I guess that's my experiences over the years
of dealing with these things. But the other side of it,

(01:34:29):
which is more interesting is the way they get used.
And you've heard many stories coming through this afternoon. I
guess I'll just give you one little one that I've
got here that I experienced whilst working for the council.
Having been through all the other previous things. The farmer
rang us up and said, hey, well look this is
all very well. They've got access, but these guys are

(01:34:51):
coming down here shooting my lambs. I'm going out in
the morning finding all the indid's all over the paddock
and the car get's gone. He said, I want to
lock the gate, and I said, well, unfortunately you can't.
So I guess that's one of the and the users
you've talked about before, wheel drive users. Yes, they are
main to a lot of areas around the place the
way they disrespect people's private land and paper roads. So

(01:35:15):
that's really it from the horse's mouth, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
So is there legal obligations for the people that use
the road, so you know, as you say that the
farmer has to give access and mark the thing is
there is there responsibilities for the people using the road
outside of just general legal You can't go and shoot
someone's lands.

Speaker 6 (01:35:39):
I think as a COURTI I don't think there's that
my knowledge is a legal requirement, But as a courtesy,
one would imagine that you would approach the adjoining owner
or the owner who's paper road that went through, you know,
as a courtesy the way we actually deal with is
to try and stop it, because there was a bit
of unfortunate situation I'm talking about. The farmer's track actually

(01:36:02):
started off on the paper road, then some ten or
twenty meters bear off onto his own land. Onto his
own land. Now people thought that was a legal road.
Of course it wasn't, so he was quite entitled defense
that off. So the way we got around the legal
part of it, we've got a series of white posts
down the center of the legal rod with a little
sign on it saying you're on a paper legal, legal

(01:36:25):
paper road here if you stay within five meters either
side of this white post. And that seemed to deal
with most of the issues.

Speaker 9 (01:36:34):
I mean, it is.

Speaker 3 (01:36:35):
It sounds complicated for a lot of farmers. But the
previous caller, David, you've cleared that up, grount. But I
imagine there's a lot of land owners out there with
paper roads within there or close to their boundaries that
get confused and think of it's not formed or doesn't
have good access.

Speaker 4 (01:36:48):
Then they've got control of it.

Speaker 6 (01:36:51):
Yeah, well, I guess that is the case. But look,
I think every probably every local authority in the country
will have paper roads I know my neighboring authority. My
counterpart over there was he had as much trouble as
I did. Because apart from us knowing what's illegal and
what's not, maybe the farmer knowing in some cases or
not knowing. There's certainly a group of people within the

(01:37:13):
country fully know their legal rights as with in regards
to access onto these unformed roads. So and as I say,
some of them treat it with respect and others just
abuse it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:27):
I guess if the's the farm has been in a
family for a very long time, most people would be
buying a farm and knowing the status of the paper
roads on the farm that they're buying.

Speaker 6 (01:37:39):
I guess one would know, one would hope. So if
they had a distent lawyer who were doing the transaction
for them, I'd be pointing that out.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
Yeah, all right, thank you so much for your call, Grant,
and thanks for clearing up those issues.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
Yeah, very interesting, right, got the headlines with Raylen coming
up next.

Speaker 4 (01:37:54):
It is twenty seven to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
Four new talks.

Speaker 17 (01:38:00):
There'd be headlines with blue bubble taxis. It's no trouble
with a blue bubble job. Losses are on the cards
at Wellington City Council after an independent review called for
large scale cuts. A Deloitte report argues the council has
too many employees and suggests cutting three hundred and thirty
full time roles. Police are investigating a fraud complaint over

(01:38:23):
a motorcycle event claiming to be a charity fundraiser. Hart
Kad's New Zealand says it doesn't endorse the ride scheduled
for this Saturday in Waikato's Morinsville, despite organizers claims. Fon
Terra still expects most dairy farmers to break even this season.
It's lowered the forecast farmgate milk payout midpoint for this

(01:38:44):
season from ten dollars to nine dollars fifty. In New Zealand,
cabin crew are in full preparation mode for strike action
in two weeks, despite crucial talks reportedly planned for tomorrow.
Digitizing our health system will be no simple task. The
government's launched a ten year plan to create a single
electronic medical record. Christ Church Men's Prison expansion, The three

(01:39:08):
Bit is vying for the eight hundred million dollar contract.
You can find out more at NZ Herald, Premium Back
NAT and matt Ethan Tyler Adams thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
RAI lean.

Speaker 3 (01:39:18):
So we've got bogged down in paper road chat.

Speaker 4 (01:39:20):
Yep, we've got bogged down on the paper roads. We're
still on there. We've got full lines.

Speaker 3 (01:39:24):
We've got full lines.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
Who knew I know, who knew it was such a
hot topic, paper roads. We've got thousands of texts coming through,
so many people to try and ring, and so.

Speaker 3 (01:39:34):
Let's take it to four o'clock. We're going yep. We
might even kick hither out and just keep it going
paper road chat all night.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
We've got to let people have this say, but before
we continue, because we never know when people have tuned
in or not. What is a paper road? Because we
did about half an hour chat and then I looked
at the text machine. There's about twenty people saying I
don't know what a paper roads. And to be fair,
I didn't know what a paper road was before we
started this chat.

Speaker 3 (01:39:53):
It's a very fair question. So a paper road is
simply part of a legal road network that has not
formed or maintained by the road in authority local roads
that actually council state highways. It's n ZTA, so anybody
can use it. It's owned by the public. But a
lot of them kind of go nowhere, and a lot
of them are by private land as well.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
It is illegal to fire a rifle on public land,
So as a paper road is public land, you cannot
hunt on it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:18):
Interesting, that makes sense, but yeah, I mean the paper.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
Road has to go somewhere, So I don't think you
can go on the paper road and then just start
shooting stuff off the paper road on someone's property, because
it's the farmer's property the side of the paper road, right,
So you can use the paper road to get somewhere
to go hunting, you can't do the hunting on the
farmer's land, if you see what I'm saying, without their permission.

Speaker 3 (01:40:39):
That's straight up poaching, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:40:42):
Especially you can't go hunting Lamb.

Speaker 3 (01:40:45):
No, No, that's the farmer's land.

Speaker 4 (01:40:47):
Andrew, you've got some stories about paper roads.

Speaker 6 (01:40:52):
Yeah, sorry drag this topic on, but I'm enjoying it. Yeah,
we're both farmed and worked on for what it access
on paper roads, I think. Yeah, this thing of excess
there's a little bit confusing. You have to grunt public
x is, but nowhere in the legislation does it say
it's vehicle access, So you don't have to have a gate.

(01:41:13):
You don't have to have a track. You just cannot
deny public access, which is mean hopping the fence and
going for a war that many of them un maintained.
You'll see a lot of farmers who will have as
a last general see the track going away from the
paper road, because if safe paper road, then you then
you're incisionly grading the public access. Similarly, you'll see guys

(01:41:35):
putting bridges in downstream from where the paper road gets
them and going back to the paper roads. So again
they can deny excess in terms of vehicles, but you
cannot deny excess in terms of someone jumping the fence
and going for a walk. So that's public excess taken
care of. Then we pay rent on paper roads, sorry rates,
so they're not excluded from our rates bill if they

(01:41:57):
were a happy day, Oh they're not public land. We
pay rate rates in the rate maps you go to
the Need City Council. The Scots went mad and they
put road everywhere, particularly up over the peninsula, left right
and center Baldwyn Street. Nuts, isn't it the potinsils Even
worse is paper roads everywhere, But there's always people still

(01:42:19):
pay rates on the total land package.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
That's and some of those paper roads are is it
true that the paper road is considered to be twenty
meters wide?

Speaker 6 (01:42:28):
They're all maps, so yeah, most of them were put
on a chain.

Speaker 4 (01:42:31):
Or something like something like yeah, chain, which is I
think is about twenty meters yeah one. Yeah, so that's
a lot. That's a lot of land.

Speaker 6 (01:42:37):
That's so they're never gazetted, which then is a legal
road and you can form access. So they just say, well,
this is we want to put a road, but they're
never gazetted, which then is a road.

Speaker 4 (01:42:48):
But you can have livestock on them obviously, so I
guess you.

Speaker 6 (01:42:51):
Can farm and they're not fenced, then they can be
in the middle of the paddick middle of a farm.
Most of them are sort of you know, straight lines. Again,
get on the DCC website, you zoom in on that
peninsula and they're covered in paper roads.

Speaker 4 (01:43:06):
It kind of makes sense Andrew that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
And it's not about car excess because a lot of
these were when Queen Victoria asked Governor Hobson to grid
up the whole place that was there was they were
not cars around at that point.

Speaker 6 (01:43:19):
Well, just exactly that they said we'll put one here
and we'll put one there, will get stuck in.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
Still, they were just covering their ass that they may
be important arterial roots in the future, weren't they really
when they when they.

Speaker 6 (01:43:33):
They looking at lamb parcels as well, you know, watch
someone farming and we croft in Scotland versus coming over
here and maybe a few more acres than that. So yeah,
and then it didn't make sense. You didn't need a
village every ten ks, so you didn't need the road
network the same. So they were just designed executly that
as a bit of a thought and all, this is
how we might do it. But it's never meant to

(01:43:55):
be a road in any sense in the modern age.
So as I say the excess thing, absolutely you have
to give excess, but that's only walking access. You do
not have to give vehicle access. And in fact, men
many roads would bloody dangerous, but it's anyone to try
and hit down. So you've just had a recently a
local group try and claim full access to paper roads

(01:44:19):
to go and develop that. So I've just been through
this whole process as well. Again you cannot actually go
in and claim access to the road.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Yeah, well, there's no I mean, if you're paying rates
on those paper roads that are not of any use
to it there to anybody. But that that makes sense
why the council wouldn't sell it to a landowner or
get rid of them. They make it a tidy profit
off those roads that go nowhere is this is the point.
They're in our titles, right, Yeah, so they.

Speaker 6 (01:44:47):
Just look in any council ratemp and zs is a classic.
They're all sitting in people's titles. They're not outside titles.
There are roads, and there are leagans, but the majority
of paper roads are sitting within titles. The Queen's change
the odd one because that's obviously moved as vers of moves.
Again that that gets a little bit more confusing. You know,
people get excess to the Queen's chained, but the Queen's chained.

(01:45:09):
Uh yeah, there's no any of the river these days.
That's probably yeah, something else, maybe stopped for another day.

Speaker 5 (01:45:15):
But yeah, the.

Speaker 6 (01:45:17):
Public this one. You guys are completely right. But I'll
come back to that at a point.

Speaker 2 (01:45:21):
That does not mean now, Andrew, when you talk about
the peninsula and you talk about you know, them them
cutting it up and the Victorian age. I think about Larnark,
you know, in the eighteen seventies heading up the peninsula
on there with horse and carriage used to take it
used to take about six weeks for him to get
up to his castle, didn't it.

Speaker 6 (01:45:43):
Yeah, I think in the endi made of wishing, didn't
build a ray fact. I think history there. But yeah,
I mean that's the thing. And there's a bit of
a chief history in that peninsula road as well. Yeah,
but it's it gets a bit annoying because it is
a thing. And you know, you know, people think the

(01:46:04):
country and free excess, but it is a working farm.
That's hazards. Someone else has pointed out, you know, there's this.

Speaker 5 (01:46:10):
Wire of excess.

Speaker 6 (01:46:12):
Yeah, and its open eyes and most people were it's
done barely and treated. Philly is right, but quite often,
particularly in the high country, hear something. You'll see a
full will drive and bele to create these wraps and tracks.
But Nick, you're off in to the Tussic because the
tracks are too big and now they're wrecking the Peddix
and up into islands.

Speaker 4 (01:46:30):
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:46:32):
Andrew, thank you for you cool, fascinating crazy Scott's just
come crazy with the paper oads. But I suppose I
didn't need to care about it at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:46:40):
I mean that story of Larnak and where he built
his castle and his daughters and coming back from London
and high society and then.

Speaker 4 (01:46:48):
Building a ballroom and no one to go there. It's
a pretty grim story back in the day.

Speaker 2 (01:46:52):
Yeah, eighteen seventy one, pissing up there with a bunch
of probably Clydesdale's and a horse just to get to
your house.

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
So it was full on thing.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):
Yeah, I love it right, sixteen to four. But taking
more of your calls, I know, eight one hundred and eighty,
ten eighty back in the month.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
Matties Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred eighty.
It's Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons news talk.

Speaker 2 (01:47:14):
It is thirteen to four, and the paper roads roll
on on Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons on z B.
And whenever we get some surety, that that that surety
is pulled out from underneath us. Yeah, like a horse
breaking its leg and a hole on a paper road.
This guy is talking nonsense. Farmers do not pay rates
on paper roads, which are crown land ODT reports on

(01:47:37):
farmers using paper roads for free.

Speaker 3 (01:47:40):
Thank you very much for that. I mean, we tried
to solve a few wishes with the paper roads, but
we've just made it more confusing.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
You do not pay rates on paper road running through
your property, says this text. So this one says first
rule of paper roads. If you find a farm gate, shut,
shut up behind you open, leave it open you bloody towneese.

Speaker 3 (01:47:58):
Yeah, that is fair. That is that's common sense.

Speaker 4 (01:48:00):
That is fair. Mark.

Speaker 9 (01:48:05):
Yeah, I had a property that had a paper road
through a lifestyle block, and so it's had to look
into all of this. And the guy who was just
the last call covered some of the things I was
going to say. One of them is it's worth remembering
that as these you know, there are often laneways that
go through farms that might have might start where the

(01:48:28):
paper road is and they but naturally they wind their
way around contours of property and that kind of thing.
If you if you look at the actual paper road
on the on the map on the title, there's many
places where that lane way goes off the paper road
as it winds around. Does it make sense? Kind It isn't.

Speaker 6 (01:48:48):
Well, people, what I was.

Speaker 9 (01:48:50):
Thinking is people assume that because there's a like a
track there, it could be for a vehicle that the
farmer maintains that they will claim I can use that
because it's a paper road, but actually it could be
half of that laneway. That track might actually be off
the paper road. Right, you're going on their property. So yes,

(01:49:13):
allowing them allowing you to use it as actually a courtesy,
Well we should sew courtesy toward the farmer because you know,
they could actually put all sorts of gates all the
way along there, laying way, although it make life difficult
for them because you know they're allowing you to go
onto their property. You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:49:32):
Yeah, because is this because when the paper roads were
laid down, they were sort of laid down arbitrarily, and
so to actually be useful then they often have to
go off the actual official line. And so when you're
using it, the chances are at some point in that
paper road, you're not on the paper road anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:49:50):
You're actually on the farmer's land.

Speaker 2 (01:49:51):
Otherwise you wouldn't be able to actually use it all
because it would go down a gully or fall off
a cliff for whatever.

Speaker 9 (01:49:57):
Exactly exactly it could be a clip there. If you
look at them on the map, they're actually straight lines.
And there'll be straight lines that might go for a
kilometer and then and then it bends off in an
angle and again it's a straight line. But the contours
of the land and the steepness of the land means
that the a tract to get to that area may
go well off the paper road and lots of places.

Speaker 4 (01:50:19):
That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (01:50:20):
Yet people will walk.

Speaker 3 (01:50:22):
Why you get there's the station owners who get a
bit upset with the hikers. And I think they're quite
right that there's a paper road that starts and then
you've got to go on to the farm station and
then back into the docklands. So they're well within their
rights to say you should ask for permission, well.

Speaker 9 (01:50:37):
Particularly if they find people are abusing it, you know,
because every everybody practically accepts that that's the case. And
the farmer uses that lane, they're using the paper road
and places to get to where they want to go.
And then but you know, the bulldozer might have been
put through off the whole. You know, a lot of
the private land to make a usable lane way for vehicles.
But you know, anyway. That's that's one thing. The other

(01:51:00):
thing is, and we had this situation, is sometimes it
might just come onto your property because there's no other.

Speaker 6 (01:51:07):
Way for it to go.

Speaker 9 (01:51:08):
And that all works well when you're getting on with
your neighbor. But let's say your neighbor sells their farm.

Speaker 6 (01:51:18):
For forestry and.

Speaker 9 (01:51:21):
The expectation is that they're going to be able to
use that inverted Commas paper road to access to bring forestry.

Speaker 11 (01:51:30):
In and out.

Speaker 9 (01:51:30):
Well, you might not be very happy about that, you know,
because it can be you know, yeah, it could be
very disruptive to you. Well, the assumption that they should
be able to continue to use the lane way is
just that an assumption. You own the land. Wherever it
goes on to your land, you own it. And really
it's a point of negotiation with the other company.

Speaker 4 (01:51:53):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:51:54):
Yeah, Well, much to your call Mark, that's cleared up
a lot paper roads.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
Incredibly complex. What about this text from Tim? I know
someone on Banks Peninsula who has has a house with
a paper road running right through it. So in theory,
someone could sit in their lounge and watch TV with
them and not be trespassing.

Speaker 3 (01:52:11):
Name and shame Yeah, let's find their house. It sounds
like a great time.

Speaker 2 (01:52:15):
You get someone just bastard, someone just rides fifteen horses
through your lounge. It's on the paper road, mate, on
the paper road, all right? Should we put paper roads
to bed?

Speaker 3 (01:52:24):
Yeah, we went too far down the paper road and
we've come to an end.

Speaker 4 (01:52:29):
Well, I found the chat very interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
Yeah, potentially went on twenty odd minutes too long on
the paper Road chat, but loved all your calls an
texts so.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Much back at eight to four.

Speaker 1 (01:52:39):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons used talks.

Speaker 18 (01:52:47):
It'd be.

Speaker 4 (01:52:49):
It is four minutes to four, and that brings us
the end of the show. Thank you so much for listening.
Love the lad chat today. It's been a great old time.

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
The great and Powerful Heather Duplessy Allen is up next
with the guaranteed no paper Roads Chats for till seven o'clock,
No paper roads all now. Anyway, Tyler, why am I
playing the song.

Speaker 3 (01:53:13):
Let's called let's called Black Friday?

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
Yeah, this is one black Friday, but a great New
Zealand man in the mockers because we were supposed to
be talking about Black Friday.

Speaker 4 (01:53:22):
In the last hour it we.

Speaker 3 (01:53:24):
Got stuck on paper roads. You wanted to talk about
Black Friday, and I'm sorry. I did the old paper
roads here. It was an enjoyable chat, but we got
bogged down heavily on the paper roads.

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
So we'll talk about Black Friday tomorrow. Anyway, you'll seem busy,
so we'll let you go until tomorrow afternoon. Give them
a taste of Kiwi from us.

Speaker 1 (01:53:57):
For more from News Talk said B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iart Radio