Entrepreneurs: Critical Thinking in the Age of AI-A Survival Skill for Leaders with Caroline Stokes + Others

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following is a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
How do you reframe the way you think? You've got
to really look into yourself? So he was aha moment
for me, realize most of Fashion.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Company a design for people who are into fashion.

Speaker 4 (00:20):
I thought, Mike, God, we have to do that in
the horses, where nobody's done anything like that.

Speaker 5 (00:24):
I'm Richard Garhart and I'm Elizabeth Gearhart. You just heard
some snippets from our show. We had amazing people on
listen for the rest of it.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Ramping up your business. The time is near. You've given
it hard, Now get it in gear. It's passage to profit.
With Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.

Speaker 6 (00:43):
I'm Richard Gearhart, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service
intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks, and copyrights.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart, not an attorney, but I do
marketing for Gearhart Law. And I am the founder of
gear Media Studios, a content creation studio with the focus
on podcasting.

Speaker 6 (01:01):
Are the old rules of leadership?

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Dad?

Speaker 6 (01:04):
We'll find out soon because our guest today, Carolina Stokes
thinks so. She's a leadership strategist and author of Aftershock
to twenty thirty as offering CEOs a bold new playbook
to reinvent their organizations.

Speaker 5 (01:20):
And it seems like we're really into the software today
because our next guest, Amya Chang, has taken AI to
help dress men better. And boy, we love this.

Speaker 6 (01:30):
I don't need any help, I address just fine, thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
And then Jeffrey Seder has taken data science to analyze
racehorses and predict which racehorses are going to win.

Speaker 6 (01:43):
That sounds very interesting to me. Welcomed to Passage to Profit,
the Road to Entrepreneurship, where we talk with celebrities and
entrepreneurs about their business journeys. And now it's time for
your exciting new business journey. Two and five Americans, our
business owners are thinking about starting a busy business, and
so we're going to be asking our panel what was

(02:03):
the biggest challenge you faced when turning your idea into
a business and how did you overcome it. So Jeffrey sied,
what challenge did you face when turning your idea into
a business?

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Credibility and the ability to be persistent. I ended up
with the nickname Dogzilla. That's my handle in the way
during the room. But credibility in the raceource business, you know,
it's full of blowney. I mean, it's just full of
traditional stuff and a lot of jargon and a lot
of misinformation and very little real science. And even though
people who pretend to be scientific, who tried to copy

(02:36):
some of our stuff with cheap meditations, it's mostly cartage.
But how do you separate your subfe It's a very
small click. They're very wealthy people who are often in
it to win. They don't care about the money, and
it's all relationships. And I was coming with no relationships
and no money, and with a completely new approach that,
by the way, would devalue the inventories of all the
major players by de emphasizing pedigree. So I was not welcome.

(02:59):
So to do developed credibility took a long time and
a lot of money, and ended up I finally got
a break. And when I did with one of the
big stables, we immediately had world champions and Kentucky derby horses.

Speaker 6 (03:11):
That's great, Anya Chang, Welcome to the show. What did
it take to turn your idea into a business.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think the biggest challenge is believing yourself.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
So when I started, I went on and start a
competition to practice a competition, I find forty two for
more judges. So when I went on the competition, my
pitch was perfect. I practiced forty two times with previous judges.
But when the judges asked me the questions, I stunned
because I wasn't trying to answer the question.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh. In my head, I was thinking, oh.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Practice judge with number thirty seven ask me this question,
and he told me the answer, which I put in
a pandex number nine DY two. I didn't believe that
I could answer the question. I all was thinking someone
else told me. So, I think believing in yourself when
you're starting a business extremely important.

Speaker 6 (04:00):
That's great, Caroline, Welcome to the show. Caroline Stokes from
After Shock to twenty thirty new book out there, so
definitely check it out. What about turning your business idea
into a business.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Turning the idea into a business, I mean, we all
have lots of ideas, right, but in my particular situation,
this idea was actually probably created back in the nineties,
but I had to go through so many different world experiences,
living in different countries, working for different businesses, being in
various different parts of the business to be able to

(04:34):
get to the point where I was able to do
what I'm doing today.

Speaker 6 (04:38):
I guess the moral of the story. Going from idea
to business can be a challenge sometimes and it's something
that you just really have to stick with. Now it's
time for our distinguished guests, Caroline Stokes. As I mentioned,
she's the author of Aftershock to twenty thirty and her
approach is that it's time to reinvent yourself as a leader. Caroline, thanks,

(04:59):
because because the world is changing so quickly that the
old rules of leadership are dead and that we have
to reframe the way we think about leadership. So very
interesting topic. I'm really curious about. How do you reframe
the way you think?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
How do you reframe the way you think. You've got
to really look into yourself, which sounds very very hard
for most people that run very very quickly all day long,
and they're very very focused on what they have to
do to obviously make a living and to survive and
to pay them mortgage in all of those things. And
really we need to rewire the way our brain works

(05:36):
to be able to work and to live and to
evolve in this era that we're living in. And when
I say that it sounds a bit strange. I have
to admit just the words coming out of my mouth,
it's like what the heck am I saying? But when
you take into consideration the changes in AI. You had
a guest on quite recently. His name was I think
James Barud, and he was talking about Agent KI and

(05:56):
he was talking about the changes there, just looking at
them as a perspective when you take into consideration how
quickly that will happen. And this is before quantum computing
makes everything even faster. We're looking at our world changing
so much. Think about it past two years. We're now
using chat ept or any other system really rapidly, and

(06:19):
the way that we use it, it's actually changing us.
It's changing our brain, is changing our ability to communicate
and to idate and to problem solve, and in some
instances it's impacting our ability to be critical thinkers. So
that's just one aspect. The other aspect in the book
that I talk about is climate change. As you know,
and as we know, with regards to climate change, we're

(06:41):
in this challenging situation where we're looking at the headlines,
we're looking at the news, it doesn't look particularly positive
out there. We have a global expectation that we need
to get to net zero by twenty thirty and in
some countries it's twenty thirty five, but there have been
various global agreements for them to happen, and corporations, governments,

(07:03):
the Institute of Justice in Brussels and various other institutions,
and climate activists and scientists have all been driving towards
this particular movement for industry, organizations, leaders and consumers to
change the way that we consume, and that requires us
to change our mindset in the process, because we have

(07:24):
these habits ingrained. We will go and buy things as
we would normally do it because we're attached to that.
There's a nostalgia associated with it. There are lots of
different aspects to we don't want to give up that
privilege that we've worked really hard to deserve. So there's
a lot of change there. And then on top of that,
all of that disruption is changing society as a whole,

(07:45):
and that is creating a lot of unrest at work.
It's creating unrest in schools. It's creating unrest, you know,
at the Thanksgiving dinner table, whereby just being being able
to create the kind of conversations that we need to create,
to create the level of let's call it equity that

(08:06):
I think we're all looking for to be heard and understood.
That trifector, as I like to call it, is a
lot to deal with. And a lot of people will
say to me, Hey, Caroline, can't we just deal with
one at a time. Not really, because they're all converging
all at the same time, and we need to be
able to see how we are interacting as individuals interacting

(08:27):
with that. So if you're a CEO, how are you
interacting with that? How are you interacting with your team?
How are you interacting with your consumers and all of
the stakeholders. There's a lot going on there.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
The problem is it's all happening so fast. I was
talking to a psychology professor this morning. Shepherds from my neighbor.
Long story, but she studies these interactions and one of
the biggest problems that she sees right now is we're
only feb the information that we want to hear. So
if you don't want to believe in climate change. You
don't have to because there are a lot of people

(08:58):
that I'll say it's fake when data and science showed
that it's real. Right, And if you don't want to
have to use AI, there are people that will say
that's okay, but you're only going to really hurt yourself.

Speaker 6 (09:08):
I am curious about when we're talking about changing our mindset.
Let's give you the opportunity to change my mindset, Caroline,
What would I be like after my mindset has been changed?
What would be the difference between Richard now and Richard
after a changed mindset?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
You may not be prepared to hear this. I'll do
my best, Okay, They're going to be happier. You're going
to be happier. There are so many different scientists psychologists
that will say there's a lot of psychological proof out there,
there's a lot of scientific proof, and a lot of
environmentalists that will also say, you know, if you're able
to adapt your mindset to understand that, you know, you're

(09:49):
actually richer than you think internally, and you're able to
see that where we are in society, in the world,
in the environment, in the economy, where we are, we're actually,
really we use the term blessed. We're fortunate we have
our health. If we don't have our health, I know
that that's a very different situation. And you know, if

(10:10):
somebody's listening and they're saying, but I feel sick, I'm
in constant pain from whatever, you know, they're going to
think I'm talking total and at a garbage So you know,
in the instance that you know somebody is doing well,
they're comfortable, they have an income, they're able to plot
their way forward, you know, that's a pretty happy life.
You know, a lot of Buddhists might speak in that
particular way, but in general, the mindset shift would be

(10:34):
there would be a centeredness. And it comes from understanding
that what got you here requires us to reinvent ourselves
quite significantly. And this is why I don't think anybody's
going to really appreciate this or want to hear about it,
which is that we have to and I this is
my very first chapter. We have to do a mere

(10:54):
culpa for what we have done and a mere culpa
for what we're about to do.

Speaker 6 (10:58):
We have to confess to pass sins and confess the
future sins.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, and we don't have to say that publicly. It
can just be to ourselves because sometimes you know, you're
in the legal profession, so you may not necessarily want
to publicly announce those things. There may be consequences, and
I don't want to put people in that situation, so
I recommend then. This is why I call it the
inner work, or doing the work, as a lot of
psychologists and therapists will say, which is to be able

(11:26):
to say, Okay, I have done all of these things like,
for example, I've driven a gas guzzling car. I have
had my air conditioning on for a whole week, and
you know there's been nobody in the house or whatever.
All of these things that may impact the earth or
society or you know, that make us feel quite guilty

(11:47):
in some way, so we're able to go, okay, so
how am I going to change the future? So nless
you could look at the example of something really basic
like I left my air conditioning on for a week.
You may do that, Caroline, I apologize, but I'm going
to have to be accountable to myself and I'm going
to have to be more disciplined with myself and make
sure I turn that off. So my carbon footprint is less,

(12:08):
which means that global warming is less likely to happen.
That's just a little shift. That's a behavioral shift. I'm
not talking about, you know, suddenly becoming a monk and
going into you know, a monastery and you know, going
through that kind of shift.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
We are we are.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
You know, we have to live, we have to work,
we have to be a part of society and things.
But to be able to have those real moments of
being able to sit down and go okay, I need
to make these shifts. So that's on a personal side.
On a professional side, let's say you're the CEO Mercedes
CEO this week is behind and encourages decarbonization, and that

(12:43):
means from a decarbonization perspective, it's rewriting the rule book
on how a car is manufactured, produced, distributed through the
supply chains, and then ultimately it's brought to you and
essentially there's going to be a lower carbon footprint. If
he was to do the Mea Kulpa exercise, he would say, yes, we've.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
Done our part.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Now we have to make dramatic, dramatic changes because we
have these massive goals, and to make those massive changes,
it's going to cause dramatic injury. And I'm thinking about
your listeners right now thinking, you know, if they're truck drivers,
they're going to think, Hold on a second, why would
I want my industry to be disrupted? Where am I
going to get my finances from? Where am I going

(13:24):
to get my revenue my wages? So there's a lot
to think about on that side. So we won't think
about that side. But when we're talking about CEOs and
leaders is what this book is about. They have to
think about the impact their current decisions are going to
have on future generations. Because climate change, as you know
from the data that we see from data scientists, you

(13:45):
know in the news headlines. Basically since twenty twenty three,
the UN has said that we've got until twenty thirty
to reverse this kind of Hockey curve that's going up
on the climate increase, which is causing the floods, the hurricanes,
the freak weather conditions, and it's going to get worse.

Speaker 6 (14:04):
We're with Carolina Stokes right now and she's the author
of Aftershock to twenty thirty. You can find her at
the Forward dot Cow and we're having really interesting discussion.
I'd like to move the focus away from climate change
right now and talk a little bit about artificial intelligence.
So how does the mindset shift work then if we
are trying to cope with the AI.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
AI, as you know, it's from the most phenomenal tool
and we've been using or you AI has been observing
us for a very long time. You know, we use Netflix,
We our mobile phone knows has known us better than
we've known ourselves for a very long time. But since
chatchipt came around in November December twenty twenty two, the
world changed so dramatically. So we know that this is

(14:49):
a fact. We know that robotics are coming through. We
know that farming is now becoming more I want to
say roboticized. That's not the right phrase. But the fact
is is that we're using AI so much more. There's
a lot of talk about, you know, certain generations or
certain people not necessarily using critical thinking to be able
to use AI in an effective way. They're taking the data,

(15:12):
they're using it as gospel. They're then going down the
path of using that data to make their life decisions
without pushing back to AI saying hey, I think this
might be wrong. How about thinking about it in this
particular area so that's where chat GPT five is actually
quite useful because you're able to argue with it. There's
a reasoning sense which is more drawn out, but I
think from a critical thinking perspective is actually more more useful.

Speaker 5 (15:36):
It almost feels like the advances in AI are helping
us solve some of these other problems. Now we just
have to get away from fossil fuels, but that may
be something AI helps us do too, because it really
is steering us in order to feed itself too. I
think these renewable sources. Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Oh, one hundred percent. It's going to get there, I
think faster than we can imagine. We look at the
headlines again that AI is a climate disruptor in the
negative sense, and I think I know that there is
a positive aspect associated with that. You just have to
look at what Maderna did, for example, when they were
using AI to build their COVID solution the vaccine very rapidly.

(16:13):
And I'm not sure what Fiser did, but this really
smart people that are smarter than me. That's what they
do tirelessly. They look at the data, they try and
work out exactly how to move that forward and they're
looking at solutions, and I've also had conversations with people
in the data center space and how many are actually
evolving from fossil fuels diesel and looking at regenerative sources

(16:38):
and the pace and scale of that. There's an urgency
behind it for the simple reason that the AI boom
is booming faster than we can even imagine because of
our propensity. Going to use the term, which is going
to be a little bit interesting addiction to all of
the fun things that we can do with AI. With
groc at the moment, with their imagine, I mean, the

(17:00):
people are sending me stell phone imagine and I'm thinking,
hold on a second, guys, you're using energy here. I'm
keeping silent, but at the same time thinking if everybody's
doing five to ten of these videos a day because
it's fun, how much energy is being used for that?

Speaker 4 (17:17):
A lot?

Speaker 6 (17:18):
Yeah, right, But I mean hopefully too though. The content
is helping people and so society is getting an advantage
by using this energy. We're talking with Caroline Stokes and
she is the author of Aftershock to twenty thirty. We
have to take a commercial break. Stay tuned for intellectual
property news coming up. Soon and Secrets of the entrepreneurial Mind.

(17:41):
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Speaker 1 (20:01):
Now back to Passage to Profit once again, Richard and
Elizabeth Gearhart.

Speaker 5 (20:06):
And our special guest Caroline Stokes, who has written the
book After Shock to twenty thirty, and we're talking about
how do we adapt to all the rapid change in
the world with AI and climate change and everything else
that's going on. And one question I wanted to ask, Chris,
can you tell us a story about a CEO who's

(20:27):
effectively using AI will be the CEO of the future.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I love that question because CEOs will never say it
out loud that they are using AI to support their
evolution because they're too proud. I'll be direct about that,
but I'll give you this example. So this story is
about a CEO who, with me as that coach, became

(20:55):
AI avoidant to AI curious and now an AI superuser
for the simple reason that when they were AI avoidant,
I was working with them as their coach and I
said to them, so, I'm seeing that you're in this
freeze state. You're not You're in CEO freeze mode, which
is an avatar system that I have in the book.

(21:17):
And in that free state, you're leading in this particular way.
You're avoiding all of the hard to discuss things. You're
deflecting decisions, You're avoiding all of these really important, critical
things that are actually going to submerge your company. So
why don't I play with AI with you so you
can see how your behavior, your leadership behavior, has been

(21:39):
impacting your ability to lead. And I'm going to track
for you what the various outcomes will be if you
continue down this path. I provided that example, and just
like that, he became AI curious and he slowly and tentatively,
week on weeks started to get involved with the GPT

(21:59):
and was able to see in the moment how his
leadership was impacting other people. And then he got hooked.
And I say that in an addictive way. But once
you realize, and this is a neuroplasticity habit forming realization
that we all have. Once we realized that something is
actually going to help us move through something that has

(22:20):
made us feel very stuck, we get this like a
feeling of like a runner's high. You're able to evolve
really really quickly. So then within and I'm not kidding you,
within three months, this person became what I would term
as a super user to be able to see how
they could improve their presence in meetings, how they were

(22:42):
able to communicate more effectively with people that they had
issues with, that there was conflict with they weren't able
to communicate more effectively with.

Speaker 6 (22:50):
So how would you use chat, GPT or another AI
platform to communicate more effectively with somebody if you were
having an or personal issue. What kind of questions would
you ask it?

Speaker 4 (23:03):
So, first of.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
All, your chat gypt needs to have some kind of
idea about who you are as a human, Okay, otherwise
you're going to be getting a real basic overview. And
often when you go to let's say half a business review,
or you go to fast Company and you see these,
or you read a book and you'll see all of
these different tools we're unable to connect with how we're
able to evolve. So that's the difference between reading a

(23:26):
book and then interacting with GPT. So my hack for that,
my big secret for this is that what you do,
you put in whatever leadership surveys that you might have
that might include may even include Amis Briggs, it may
include emotional intelligence two point zero overview a report, a

(23:46):
leadership circle report. You can upload those particular reports or
maybe actually do an overview with or do a deep
dive with chat GPT to understand what your leadership style is.
Maybe do some very very quick, dirty, what I call
radical listening with your team to say, hey, what would
you like me to change, what would you like to

(24:07):
see more of me? What challenges do you need me
to solve in the next six months, And just feed
all of that data, all of that data into chat GPT,
and then say, let's have a coaching session to determine
how I can communicate more effectively with these people that
present it in that present their issues in this particular way,

(24:28):
and you're then being coached in the moment. So when
you go into that meeting or you have that email
or slack session.

Speaker 6 (24:36):
I mean, communication though, is always two way. We give
our conversation to the people that we're talking to, right,
so we want to make sure that we can communicate.
How does chat GPT set it up so that it
can kind of anticipate the audience or the person that
you're trying to communicate with.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
The great thing about chat GPT is that if you so,
as a user of chatchept, you have some kind of
understanding of some psychological terms, and say, this person might
be avoiding various issues right now. They may be overly stressed.

(25:15):
The person that I have conflict with maybe overly stressed.
They have, you know, family challenges, there's some health challenges
going on. We are looking at the issues that are
happening globally and it's going to impact our supply chain.
We don't have a runway for you know, our runway
has been reduced. You know, if you put all of
those compounding issues together so that you can create that

(25:38):
compassion and that empathy to create the right kind of
prompts that the human let's say the CEO is able
to create that it works.

Speaker 6 (25:46):
I'm going to start putting information about Elizabeth into chat
geptwo and this way I'm going to be able to
figure this out. Because I've been working on this for
a while, I think I have the secret now, okay.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
For the law for right now. Not all of the
attorneys like to put their time in. In fact, most
of them hate to put their time in that they
do it. But I think it would be interesting to
do us wit.

Speaker 6 (26:10):
To actually have a program now that will calculate your attornies,
buildable time for them, and upload it if you want
to do that I haven't tried it. I have no
idea whether it works GPT.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
Why do these guys hate putting their time in so bad?
And how can I make it better? Put many guess on?

Speaker 6 (26:26):
You know, there's a lot of issues there. Let me
tell you there's but in any case, we're with Caroline Stokes.
Thank you very much for this segment. It's been fascinating.
Where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
People can find me on LinkedIn at O Caroline Stokes
and at the Forward dot COO.

Speaker 6 (26:43):
Well, now it's time for Intellectual Property US and our
topic today is guess what AI And so we have
had been following a court case recently with Anthropic. In
the first round of the case, the court decided that
at the use of copyrighted material was transformative enough to

(27:05):
constitute fair use, which means that Anthropic, when it's creating
its stuff through their program Perplexity, they're not violating anybody's copyrights.
So phase two now of the trial, which is where
Anthropic lost, was the court said that you uploaded all
these copyrighted books, millions of them, off of a pirate website,

(27:29):
and now you're going to have to pay the creators'
damages for taking their property without their permission or without
paying them. So obviously, if they have to pay out
to the creators, and it's potentially millions of creators here,
that's going to be a pretty big chunk of money.
And I think Anthropic is going to raise the price

(27:51):
of perplexity, right, how are they going to get that
money back?

Speaker 5 (27:54):
I just want to add here real quickly that I
was researching some of this and I found that they
are companies now. Talk about your cottage industry springing up.
There are companies now that will help you get paid
by Big Ai for your content. And Big Ai is
paying people, especially if it's private content, to use their content.
So it's almost like going to a book editor in

(28:17):
the old days. You know, here's my content, and they're
using it. But they are paying people so and there
are companies that will help you do that.

Speaker 6 (28:24):
So maybe the system is improving from the content creator side.
But the fact is is if Anthropic or any of
the other AI platforms have to pay money out, they
may raise their price. So right now, it's like twenty
bucks a month, and maybe to pay off all these people,
they have to raise it to one hundred bucks a month.

Speaker 5 (28:41):
They're going to raise the price no matter what, because
what's happening is Google's going to Google Gemini.

Speaker 6 (28:46):
So the question is to our panel, would you pay
more money to make sure that creators get compensated for
their content? Even one hundred bucks a month more?

Speaker 5 (28:57):
Well, one hundred bucks a month is kind of steep,
But if I was really serious about using it from business, yeah,
but I don't know, But yeah, you're gonna have it's
going to go that way anyway, they're going to charge
more regardless, I'd rather see the creators get paid some
of that.

Speaker 6 (29:10):
Okay, Anya, what do you think about this topic?

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Where do you find I think for me, it's irrelevant
that it's about creators, right or not? It's about that
if I'm going to use a tool, what are my
other solutions and it's going to see me half an
hour's time for my team.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
To do some work.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Is it worth fifty bucks per months or not?

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Is it solving a real problem for me? And is
it worth it for me to do that?

Speaker 3 (29:35):
And if it's not worth it, that means they couldn't
find a good business model. They have to keep iterated.
Maybe they find our revenue stream front corporations or something,
but and up day is how much value that the
tool is going to bring to us.

Speaker 6 (29:49):
Well, I think that's a very very practical way to
look at it. You're obviously an amazing business woman, define
what are your thoughts on all of this?

Speaker 4 (29:57):
Well, by scraping data in scientific applications, a lot of
times you avoid the process of trying to figure out
how to rigorously gather the data so that you can
isolate variables so that it's not just garbage and then
garbage out. So we try to use actual intelligence for AI.

(30:17):
And the only way it saves us time is if
we're trying to research something and we say, get us
everything written on X everybody who published something on this,
and then we have to go look at it because
the AI doesn't know what was done by an idiot
or where what the method they use was flawed or
it was to do a study, a real scientific study

(30:41):
to get a breakthrough to prove anything. It's really really
difficult to isolate the variable properly and get to Oh,
it's just hard, and you can't just scrape data off
the daily racing formum, every horse that ever race and
all there and expect to learn anything. For example, so
the only way it's worth it is to gather it,

(31:01):
and that saves tryin. If I can pay less money
to somebody who can get me all that in a hurry,
I'll pay for that. But I'm not going to pay
for a lot of the data scraping because on my field,
it's a waste. And I can explain that more detail
liter it's a complete waste of time to scrape the
databases of our racehorses. They're so compromised.

Speaker 6 (31:20):
Thank you for that, Caroline. What are your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
I expected to go up? I mean, the it's been
wild west, it's been a gold rush, and everybody's trying
to get the get as much usage or the AI
creators have been working on getting as much usage as
possible to ensure that their data models are able to
run in the you know, in the top leagues. And
now it's a question of paying for it. I mean

(31:44):
Grock for example, I'm in Canada, so I'm paying five
hund dollars a year for Grock. I paid twenty for Chatchipt.
Would I pay more? Yeah? I mean I'm with Anya,
where if I'm able to do more in less time
with that kind of reasoning, and critical thinking and having
a critical thinking thought partner. It's actually really good value.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
I agree.

Speaker 6 (32:08):
I think it's a lot like the cable business a
long time ago. When cable was first introduced, you paid
a monthly fee, but there were no advertisements, right, and
the idea was to get everybody hooked on the service.
And the same thing with the Internet. You just paid
a monthly fee and gradually the platform owners figured out
ways to work advertising into the process. And I think

(32:30):
the same thing is going to happen with the AI platforms.
They're just getting us hooked on it now. They're keeping
the barriers to entry low, and eventually we're going to
start seeing all sorts of ads that people are going
to be paying for. It's just a matter of time,
but great discussion, and if you have an idea or
an invention that you want to protect, you can contact

(32:53):
us at your Heart Law. We work with entrepreneurs worldwide
to help them through the entire process of obtaining patent, trademarks,
and copyrights, and you can visit learn more about patents
dot com or learn more about trademarks dot com for
free consultation, or download your free Entrepreneurials Quick Guide to
patents or trademarks, and also book a consultation with a

(33:16):
gar heart law attorney. We'll be back soon. We have
to take a commercial break, but will have Secrets of
the Entrepreneurial Mind coming up soon, So stay tuned.

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Speaker 1 (35:25):
Passage to Profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.

Speaker 6 (35:29):
Passage to Profit is a nationally syndicated radio show heard
in thirty eight markets across the US. We'd like to
do a shout out to our affiliate in Saint Louis, Missouri,
KILS five ninety thanks for listening. And also our podcast
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We've also been recently selected by feed Spot Podcasters database

(35:51):
as a top ten entrepreneur interview podcast. So subscribe to
Passage to Profit show on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and and
on the iHeart app. And now it's time for Elizabeth's update.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
Yes, well, I have news that's very exciting to me
and Richard.

Speaker 6 (36:08):
I started and it came as a shock.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
So right before COVID, I was starting a video directory
of small businesses online and it evolved and I interviewed
a bunch of people during COVID on Zoom was great,
and I was having the website done and ran into
some got bogged down with that. But in the meantime
I drafted a patent applications.

Speaker 6 (36:27):
So Elizabeth is a patent agent, so among her many skills.

Speaker 5 (36:31):
So I did have help from people at Gearheart Law
with the claims, which are if you've ever looked at
a patent out the weird part. And we filed the
patent application and then I just left it in the
hands of the Gearhart Law attorneys and Richard of course
and I were brainstorming back and forth about what else
could go into this, and he put in a bunch
of good ideas. So both their names are on the
patent application. And we just found out that the patent

(36:52):
was allowed.

Speaker 6 (36:53):
Yees, well, congratulations to us.

Speaker 5 (36:55):
I announced it it art.

Speaker 6 (36:56):
It'd be pretty bad if as a patent firm we
didn't get it allowed. Congratulation and we pretty much sink
our reputation, don't you think.

Speaker 5 (37:04):
And everybody was just like, yeah, so what that happens
every day?

Speaker 6 (37:08):
Yeah right, They're like, oh, big deal. But we were happy.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
So that was our most exciting news. I'm still doing
podcasting YouTube Creators Community meet up, and the next one
in September is online and in person. It's going to
be really fun. We have Rob Greenley. He's going to
talk about chat GPT five, which I'm telling you I
am not so impressed with yet. Maybe I need to
use it some more. And then we have Stacy Sherman,
who's going to talk about customer experience and in terms

(37:31):
of podcasting and YouTube, do people like AI generated content
better or human generated content better. Can they even tell
the difference? Where's that going?

Speaker 6 (37:40):
I'm sorry, but I think chat GPT five. The word
is out on the street that it was a bomb.
Nobody likes it.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
Well, it's kind of weird to use. And well I
tried having it.

Speaker 6 (37:50):
It has no edge. It's like it's too nice or something.

Speaker 5 (37:54):
No, it's not. I had tried to have a generate
images last night and an image of Richard and me
on this thing, and he gave me triple chins and
added about thirty paths. And then also we're gonna have
doing Pistolski from your Heart law covering copyright. So and
then the studio. I'm getting more clients all the time.
So that's pretty much my update. Now we're going to

(38:15):
talk about the medical minute, and again we're going to
our friend Ai. Can you hold Ai and chatchipt responsible
for almost killing someone? This guy went online to chatchpt
to find some medical advice and instead of using salt,
it sent oh, he could use bromide.

Speaker 6 (38:31):
What do you use bromide for?

Speaker 5 (38:33):
Well, I don't know. We used it in chemistry lab
years ago. I don't even remember what for. But it
almost killed him.

Speaker 6 (38:40):
So he went on a bromide diet or something, right.

Speaker 5 (38:43):
He replaced salt with bromide somehow, I don't know what.
Must have some sort of bromide.

Speaker 6 (38:47):
This is what chat chip told him to do.

Speaker 5 (38:50):
Yes, So it says there's little indication tech companies will
be made liable for the harm cause of course not.
But doctors can be sued if they give you bad
information like this.

Speaker 6 (39:00):
And that's just you know, this interesting point that doesn't
come up too often with AI, and that is there's
a human behind it. They can be held accountable, so
there's a real motivation to make sure you get it right.
Whereas if it's just Chap GPT and it's shooting stuff
off there, makes a mistake of so what, but that
guy nearly died, right, So for.

Speaker 5 (39:21):
All of you out there, I love AI, I love
chat GPT and Perplexity and all the other ones, but
it's a love hate relationship because oh yeah, they put
thirty pounds on me.

Speaker 6 (39:32):
Well one of works. It's great, but then you hear
a story like that and you lose confidence.

Speaker 5 (39:36):
So the guests of the waiting here patiently, and I'm
really excited to hear from Anya Chang next about Taylor
Style is t a E l o R. Dot style.
This is like a really cool innovation in the fashion
industry using AI and science and so welcome on you
tell us all about it.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
We use AI to peak clothes for busy man. So
definitely not richer is too fashionable.

Speaker 6 (40:00):
But look and I've got clothes that are ten years old.
They look great, and I don't you know, give me
a subscription service that sends me a new pair of
pants every decade, I'll be happy.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Now his sits are fine, but it's his weekend clothes
could use little health.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
People tell to answers, who are your biggest competitor with
the usually their wives, so afterwords they previously used wife
to pick a clothes. I got the idea when I
was working for Meta I help you Facebook, Instagram shopping,
and I was a head of product for eBay before,
so when I was working with those big tech company,
as a woman's with color, I feel a little bit

(40:34):
impossible syndrome. I want to look great. But I realized
most of fashion company either you have to pick thousands
of garments and you're browling through and you pick your
own things, or you have to own which you just
e commerce you have to buy, and that means laundry, ironing,
dry cling, and then tidying up every year.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
It's just a lot of work.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
So it was aha moment for me realize most of
fashion company at the designed for people who are into fashion,
not for busy men or like me, who are not
into fashion but socially active. Getting a job, getting a day.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Close a deal.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
I don't care what I wear, but I care that
I look presentable in the show. I look amazing in
this deal conversation, I look great when my teachings and
all other stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
So Taylor was born with AI.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
We changed Traditionally only Hollywood celebrity can have their stylists
to pick clothes. Now everybody has AI personal stylists and
we ask their high and way, but we don't use
it a lot because most of the guys think they
are total and thinner, so they put the fact informations
in and definitely so small, no, no, no, go through

(41:43):
your closet. Oh my, ah, my favorite sure is actually large.

Speaker 6 (41:48):
Yeah, I've had that experience. This medium shirt doesn't fit anymore.
It's only fifteen years old.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Big shring for sure. It's not because I give.

Speaker 6 (41:56):
You that's right. Blame it on the washer.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
They don't have to buy these clothes, right, Yeah, they
don't have.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
In our model, they don't have to. It's rental.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Just like you get a Volver, someone get on the car.
You get a library and you pick a book and
you read it, you go back to the library or
Netflix show.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
You don't own the s DVD.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
In our model, it's like rand the a wrong way
you don't have to buy, but better than a random
wrong way for a woman because then you don't have
to pick. Our AI will pick for you. We specifically
as our customers goal, which is why they care most.
They want to have this outfit that close the deal
or this single guy that showcases their whatever body parts

(42:33):
or best personalities. So we focus on the goal, and
then you talk about the data points. We actually purchase
two companies. They have ten years of styling data. We
get their permission, we buy those data. They were human
picked before when they style customer and we fit into
our AI. So then our module has unique data, but

(42:54):
sitting on top of larger than GROO model like open AI.
So as they grow, but we always want steve ahead.

Speaker 6 (43:02):
So if somebody returns closed I saw it from the website.
You have the option to buy the color thing if
you really like it, but they return it. What happens
after its return just like airport.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Rental car you return, we wash them three hourship to
other people, like your dry clean business, but every time
you pick is a different outfit and the coast is
still very new, just like a lot airport rental car.
Before it's too old. It gets sold on everay, renting
three times the item already sold to the customer and
when people buy it's a second hand. So go for

(43:32):
the environment, but you don't have to spend half an
entire afternoon go to a tress store.

Speaker 6 (43:37):
I assume they're inspected. So if I were like spill
a chocolate shake on my shirt or something that's whatever happened,
then you would pick it out and you couldn't clean it.
You wouldn't send it out, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
We are almost like professional dry clean business, right, so
anything that dry clean can clean with no problem. But
if it's really your cut off one shore because you
went to Vegas and you too drawn, then of course
we charge you. Given that we are subscriptions, so we
have customers credit card, saye around one hundred.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Dollars per month.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Costomers can wear like ten clothes for months and then
they return again next two months, so they don't have
to do any shopping or laundry.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
And what kind of brands do you have?

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah, we work with over one hundred and fifty brands,
all of name brands, Marine Layer, Johnson, and Murphy Bonobos.
That all major brands that.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
You're aware of.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
But we also source scrobbally the best brand. They are
not yet available in the US. See brands in Italy.
It might be number one over there, but they have
an enter US market now they get instead of burning
those unsold inventories or the latest collection, they want a
test for new market. We get lost inventory and then
enter the market. So then we have to solve the

(44:48):
problem that thirty personal clothes go directly from factory to landfield,
generating ten personal carbon emission for the war. But at
the same time they also say that the latest collection
is not yet in the market because they want to
know customer feedback. So customer wior costomer get both of
those inventory their high quality, but may not be available
in the US.

Speaker 5 (45:09):
That sounds really cool to me.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
Yeah, that sounds great. We're with Anya Chang from Taylor
spelled t A E l o R a new way
to use and experience clothing. So where did you come
up with the idea for this?

Speaker 3 (45:24):
I was working for this big company and realized that
I need these type of things and we start testing
off different customers. And so when we launched just a
lending page for just see if people are join the witless,
you mentioned about how the challenge you start a company,
like what do you get?

Speaker 2 (45:41):
How do you get your first customers?

Speaker 3 (45:42):
So we launched this lending page and then there was
one one day a guy emailed me say, hey, can
you bump me back to the Wellless? I have been
on there for one month. I thought he's a scam.
I ignore him. Who really want this? Nobody websites that
really want the service. And then a month after that
he called me Hi. Somehow he had me on LinkedIn

(46:04):
and I accepted and he found my phone number. He said,
I'm a real estate as Diego. I really like the
boushold on your website. I'll been waiting for two months.
You must be really popular. No, we had nothing, we
just have a lunch.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yet you must be very popular.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Can you please bump me out to the way less
I want the service. We realize he's a real customer.
We went to the store, he was doing Christmas promotions,
so but how about your things from Acy's? Went to
post office and should be to the guy. He became
our first customer. And from there we're testing a hundred
people like this and we learn a lot. We know

(46:37):
what's needed we need. We realize we need ai to
picking clothes, we need to work with fashion brands. We
can work with them revenue share model and provide insight
to help them to do better jobs. We realized we
will need some others, like the operational stuff. And with
a business plan we start raising and how that's how
we raised two million dollars two years ago.

Speaker 5 (46:59):
That's us. So could a young man who had just
graduated college say and was going to start maybe at
a marketing company in New York his first job is
that kind of your ideal client? So he comes to
he says, Hey, I'm starting this new job in a
New York marketing company. I have no idea what to wear.
Would you be able to help him? For sure?

Speaker 3 (47:18):
I think our customers are a guy who.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Are socially active.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
They are either single guys, salespeople, consultant, passer, recruiter, professors,
and lawyer lawyer. We've worked with actually a multiple many
law firms and also legal associations. People who are people
facing but they don't have time where they don't have
like strong fashion sins and they don't want to read
GQ and research on it. If using analogy of a

(47:44):
cleaning company, we are not selling cleaning supply.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
We are selling this main service.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Our customer really treats us more like the gatchet guy
behind a superhero, like hey, you are ready to go,
or just like executive systems. So they asked us, okay,
I will hear these school codes? Do you sell shoes, assistory,
Valentine's State gift? Where do I do my haircut? So
they really see us more of like cost service for them.

Speaker 6 (48:09):
So, Anya, you grew up in Taiwan, Is that right?
So how did you get from Taiwan to the United
States and how did you start your business career in
a new country.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Yeah, it's from Taiwan.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Originally, I went to Northwestern University took my marketing degree,
and I graduated in two thousand and eight. When Lehman
brother went Backcassy, there was no job anywhere, so I, hey,
my only job before I came to the US was
a reporter, so I was way outside of other departments
like school's departments. And then as soon as they're hiring,

(48:43):
the recruiters came out, I was deliver my resume just
like the reporter, hand over the microphones, like, hey, this
is my resume. I'm a student from marketing department, which
we don't I didn't even get the campus recruitings possibility,
so this is my resume and they talk to me.
When people say, this is too dumb. You shouldn't ambush recruiters.

(49:04):
You should like actually come networkings. So I start knocking
every single departments. Professor's in the door networking. I kind
of know those people. I pay tuitions, right, so I'm
not every single door, no matter he she knows me
a lot or not or not. And one day there
was a professor she said, I don't know you. I
cannot give you any job, but tomorrow I have amazing

(49:26):
talk from.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Richard Merissa, and that's you.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
It's a panel that you can come and talk and
talk to the speaker.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
So I went.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
My English was so poor, I couldn't understand anything, but
I still.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Said, this is an amazing cow. Here's my resume.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
So the CEO is a farmer's magazine company. She invited
me to interview in her company. I went on an interview.
It was a perfect job, a marketing job in a
magazine company for someone who had reported media background. Two
weeks went by a color recruiter. She says, stop calling me.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
I am off.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Even the recruiter was a layoff from the company. Since
you have nothing to do, do you want to come
out and grab a coffee? You said, sure, I have
nothing to do.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
We had a coffee.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
She told me a lot about the company. Who was
their competitors, who's the customers?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
And she told me.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
One idea, have you heard of New York? New York
is a bigger city than Chicago. Bigger city has more job.
It always a bigger city. So these are bigger city,
you should give.

Speaker 5 (50:24):
You a try.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
So I went on a trip for two months, sleep
on different friends cultries every week at least two thousand
alumni for the school, and I started approaching co calling
those people. And then one day I bought all the news,
the newspaper from the news stand because they all say
publisher names, so sel resign riture and if you want
advertised call this number. So I start calling issue of them,

(50:48):
and eventually I actually met with the CEO of New
York Times in vv O C and but nobody was hiring.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
And I thought, this is a great opportunity. But it's
two law.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
So I want to go to a conference which you
need ticket and really expensive. So I call a mazing
company in Taiwan say I want to cover is amazing
news in New York. We say okay, for free? I
said okay. I called the conference. Hey, I'm a reporter
from Taiwan. Can I get into the press tickets? So
then eventually it was still get me with a whole
bunch of people, but no one was hiring. I went

(51:21):
back to Chicago, was ready to pack and go home
back to Taiwan. But I actually learned a lot in
those two months.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
So I put.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Together a business plan based on what the lay off
the recruiter told me, what their competitors say, and then
I build out the DC. If you want to do
this type of thing the New York Times are doing,
would be great to hire someone who have some marketing
background and probably not very senior, so you don't need
to pay a lot. And I happen to know someone,
her name's Anya Chan, and would you like to hire that?

(51:51):
And she asked me My English were really bad. She
asked me, do you want to be a contractor?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I say yes.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
I didn't know what a contractor means, and I google contractor.
I didn't know why she want me to be a palmer.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
But I got my first job in the US.

Speaker 6 (52:06):
That is an amazing story. And I really admire you
driving determination. And you know, it's tough to find a job,
especially when you're just starting out. You don't have a
lot of experience during a difficult economy, but you did it.
And then after that job, it seems like you've worked
with some pretty prestigious companies, Meta and Target, McDonald's right,

(52:30):
all of those in marketing positions.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Yeah, I started in marketing. It's actual data scientists in marketing.
And then Sears come to me say, hey, this is
for media company. You guys know how to do media buying.
How about you do media selling? How about you do
some media buying. And then when I was doing that,
I realized the best media I will be using data
just like Jeffrey, how to predict rasingholds is probably data,

(52:56):
So they are getting into the data scientist space, then
get into target Targets said, hey, you are doing these things,
would you like to be helping us down here?

Speaker 2 (53:07):
But you have to come to Minnesota.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
So my dream at the time was working in Silicon
Valley because as a leader in the tech teams, seems
a perfect match. But the Minnesota opportunity, I say still
say yes. So I told them that hey, if you
one day have opportunity, I really want to move to
San Francisco. A week before I was on board, they
called me. They say, hey, you mentioned about this before

(53:31):
and your boss position was opening, and now we found
a guy.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
He actually lived in San Francisco.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
He doesn't want to move to Minnesota, so you can
work for him in San Francisco. So sometimes opportunity is
there when you a little bit open to an opportunity
is not perfect.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
And my mom.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
Said, Target is great, but I never heard of it
back in Taiwan. So I joined my global business and
by learning using something that I know of technology, but
learning something new, which is a global things.

Speaker 6 (54:01):
Yeah, Caroline, do you have any questions for Anya?

Speaker 5 (54:04):
Anya?

Speaker 2 (54:04):
I want to say your your hero journey or heroine
journey is amazing and the hustle absolutely outstanding. And if
everybody had an ounce of that hustle to get what
they needed to do, it'd be absolutely amazing. I think
my question is you blend tech and a consumer or
customer need really really nicely. What was your aha?

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah? I think when we started with all we are
selling clothes, but quickly we realize we are not. We
are selling a dream, a chance to succeed. Our cosmer
don't clear to how they wear red or blue as well?
Do they get to get a girlfriend or boyfriend? Right?
So it's actually selling a chance to succeed. This is
what cosmeer really buying is about the convenience. Herefore, we

(54:48):
started with thoughts for international for a fashion brand, the
biggest the best thing will be monetizing the unsold inventory.
They burnout, lose inventory anyway. But quickly we discovered it's
not true. They care even more so about the data,
which is an inside Oh your pants one inch inch
too shore That's why most of the Americans are not

(55:09):
buying your pants. They're actionable insights. They're actually a lot
more valuable they're monetizing the old inventory because they help
them to be successful for their next collections. So understanding
of what real value that we deliver, I think this
is how we were able to grow. And now we
got investors from like Spotify, Tikka, Hallo, Kitties and Founder

(55:31):
you too.

Speaker 5 (55:31):
Yeah congratulations. I mean it's approaching the problem from a
lot of different angles and solving problems for different people
in the whole thing. But this has been fascinating and
I'll be showing Richard that.

Speaker 6 (55:43):
I don't need any fashion help now.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah that's style.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Or dot style.

Speaker 5 (55:50):
So t a E L O R Dot style.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, anyway, use a code yes twenty five to
get twenty five percent offive.

Speaker 5 (56:04):
Cast twenty five to get twenty five percent off. That's
a deal, that's right. Maybe that's one of your birthday presents.
You never know that.

Speaker 6 (56:13):
So that was really fun Passage to Profit with Richard
analyst Pier Hart.

Speaker 5 (56:18):
So now we are diving into just the glamorous world
of horse racing with Jeffrey Cedar, and I'm just so
excited to hear about this. It's e QB dot FYI
Equine Biomechanics and Exercise physiology. That's his website. Okay, Jeffrey,
take it the heck is that? Take it away, Jeffrey.

Speaker 4 (56:39):
I wonder what Anya could do for Colombo. I was
always kind of my hero is the guy who looked
like he was shuffling in when looking like a homeless person,
and he always caught the genius criminal that nobody else
could nail. I was really interested in her persistence. That
kind of reminded me some of them my own. I
spent the first twenty or twenty five years, and I
had to have day jobs. I was six usful. We

(57:01):
invested millions of dollars in the research, and nobody gave
it damn and nobody believed in it until we finally,
after like twenty five years, somebody finally gave us a
try and we were very successful, and so we built
it from there. But I mean it just the data
that existed was useless. I started out, I was a younger,
and I worked at the beginnings of the Olympic Sports

(57:22):
Medicine Committee when we were afraid in nineteen seventy six,
the East Germans bursting into all the metals, supposedly with
mad scientists in kindergartens and things, and I learned a lot.
And I learned that the elite athletes were as different
in their data as normal is from injured. That's how
much the elite were different, and so you had to
get data from them. You couldn't just use the databases
that existed out there. And I thought, my god, we

(57:44):
have to do that in horses, where nobody's done anything
like that. It's all eyeball and intuition. And we weren't
interviewing the parents at the Olympics for tryouts, so we
didn't use pedigree. But the oil industry was built around it.
It was all fads, and some horses got there and
fads got the best of everything and they succeeded, and
others were dealt with by idiots, so they didn't succeed.

Speaker 6 (58:05):
So your company attempts to try to predict what horses
are going to be the best horses, is that.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Only before they have a race when they're youngsters. We
have unique databases built over thirty years, so we know
the difference in the physical attributes and the way they move,
and in the thickness of the left ventricle of their
heart and things like that. We had to develop the
machinery to get that data. It didn't even exist. We
built the first portable of present machine. You could go
into it so we could go into a stall and

(58:34):
do echo cardiography on the race hert. So we should
have patented that. We have other patents. So we built
these databases in it and then we study them and
you know, we found stuff that was predictive of performance.
Most of it's not related to pedigree, and the entire
industry is built around pedigree the values. So we were
outsiders and industry disruptors. Beg time.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
I think that's how humans are too. Pedigree doesn't always
matter and how smart you are, right, But I want
to to ask you, so you developed this program like
massive method for predicting winners from the time they're born. Practically,
are you selling your services to people to help them
pick their horses to raise as race horses or are
you giving them the software? How are you monetizing them?

Speaker 4 (59:15):
No, what we did was the way we monetized it
was it couldn't give away the data it costs too much, excellent,
so we would use it for them. We would go
to the auctions and to the farms and go through
thousands and thousands of these young horses and find which
ones to buy, and then in the management of that,
we learned about the management of the racehorses, which ones

(59:37):
were good on the grass, of the dirt or the mud,
who could go long and who would go short. I
got some great stories about that. You know, you can
have a horse that never got a chance to do
what it's really good at and they don't realize it
could have been a world champion. I had a few
of those. I've switched them over, so that's what we did.
But mostly the industry was really hostile.

Speaker 6 (59:54):
Why do you think that was? I guess part of
horse racing is the mystique. There's sort of a miss
steak with horse racing and kind of an art, I guess,
and people don't want to change that. But it's also
about making money, right and if you haven't, no, not really.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
It just came from an auction where they had fifteen
yearnings went for more than a million dollars, So most
of them will learn nothing and be lousy. And they
could have bought they could have used technology instead of
buying the one three million dollar yearly, and they could
have bought like twenty horses each of which would probably
be profitable, but they don't do it because it's not
fashionable and it doesn't make them a big shot. It's
a very strange industry. It's irrational industry, and it's caught

(01:00:32):
in three hundred year old methodologies and the value of
these all these huge farts, these huge injines, all based
on what's going to be debunked within the next ten years,
just peg reach stuff, and it's uh, it's wild. So anyway,
probably me, I mean, I was arrogant. I had three
degrees from Harvard, and I was a smart guy, at
least I thought I was. Although I also worked with

(01:00:53):
leading trainers, you know, Hall of Fame trainers and miteam.
But I just couldn't get any business until finally I
made atation to one old guy in Kentucky and he said,
give me one recommendation. He had two hundred horses, he
was a leading stable, and I was, you know, I
had been losing money forever, and I said, you don't understand.
It's the whole system and you have to manage it.
You have to do He said, no, no, just give me

(01:01:14):
one recommendation. So I went through his two hundred horses
and I recommended he put one young horse he had
that hadn't won a race in one of the most prestigious,
most important racers in the world a month lucky to
and he burst out laughing. But he did it and
it worked. The thing is on horse racing, when you
see a horse running up the stretching the dirt and
he's passing everybody, he's generally not speeding up, he's slowing

(01:01:36):
down the whole race. He's just slowing down less than
the rest of them. And the fatigued curve, the velocity
decay fits a logger in the curve that's pretty much
specific to each horse. And he got that from swimmers
of the Olympics, so you can extrapolate out that fatigue
curve from short distances to see what their time would
be for longer distances. And so there was this This
horse was slow, but he didn't slow down, so his

(01:01:59):
extra pa fully time in this one of the Belmont Stakes,
which is one of the longer horses. None of the
horses that had ever run that far. It was a
mile and a half, so it's a real test and
you don't know how they're going to be able to
do it. And this horse was getting trounced at three
quarters of a mile, and so he, uh I said,
then this little he'll be right there. And so I went,
and the night before the daily racing form in the

(01:02:20):
articles where they said this horse is good for this
reason and this petigree's terrific, he'll go along and blah
blah blah. And then there's the jokers and the idiot.
So that was us and I never they never apologized
and then uh so uh I get there and then
qualifying trainers there and he's telling the press he's not
his fault, the owner's making him do it, and blah
blah blah. So I'm thinking this is either going to be,

(01:02:41):
you know, ecstatic or catastrophic. Instead of getting the gate,
and that Chrissy comes out left out of the gating's
trailing the field because he's slow. About half of the race,
he starts to catch up to the pack. About three
quarters the way he's there and he's passing the horses
and by the end he's flying. And there was another
two tripes e to won, and just to prove it
wasn't a of Fluca. A month later he was in

(01:03:02):
a million dollar rational Louisiana Louisiana super Derby and he
did the same thing again, so I was right.

Speaker 6 (01:03:08):
So then I got that owner was pretty happy with you, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
Belt having a worthless horse. It was by his new
stallion who's trying to promote out of the first crop
of the new stallion. He had a classic multiple graded
stakes place to hors it. So then the next year
I bought him like three horses and one wasn't in
Kentucky Derby Lodge. The next year I did it again.
So at that point I got a call from a
guy from Egypt who had not been in horse racing,

(01:03:31):
and he wanted to hire us to do a forty
million dollars project, And so away we went. And then
within three years, spending a fracture of what his competitors did,
he was a leading state in the United States, and
we had the first triple crime winner in thirty seven years.

Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
What was that horse's name?

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
American Pharaoh, Oh okay. And then in the New York
Times the night before it was on the front defender
page center of the New York Times. The day before
he did triple Crown, and the whole story. If you
turn in there, you'll see my picture and They always
had a quote of the day of the New York
time and the court of the day that day was
for me, and it was sell your house, don't sell
this horse the Egyptian pound, and they had Arab spring

(01:04:07):
and the Egyptian pound with the value fifty percent and
his businesses with an army there were going to hell.
So he has selling the horse in Saratoga and we've
done it, and so I had to go to and say, please, police, please,
please don't. So he bought about for three hundred thousand
and it ended up worth about fifty million. Wow. Still,
if you ask people on my website eqb dot FYI,

(01:04:28):
I list all these sourds that we bought, how much
we paid for him, what they did. You can verify
at all the third party sources. You can call up
the owners and so I have. If you look at
that record, nobody can match that record. Big raising day
and ask everybody who the hell I am. I guarantee
you they must have had no idea who we are
or what we do.

Speaker 6 (01:04:46):
Yeah, what about predicting outcomes and average races?

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
I got called dog zilla I have. My name is
dog Zilla. In the bedding world, with some of the
big wagers where I did some of that for him,
especially if the guy bought the horse that had never
run along and he was stretching out, we would use
those velocity decay logarithm extrapolated curves to see what their
time was going to be. Or if we saw something
in the in the film that was a problem with

(01:05:10):
a horse when we filmed it at five hundred pictures
a second and we could correct it. We even had
one horse where he had they've hang up hay in
a bag at the stall, and he ate the hay
out of the back and he got it up his
nose a big piece of hey, like this long of
a stem. Right. Nobody knew what was wrong from so
they called come on. We literally the first thing we
did was do a full bed exam and they looked

(01:05:31):
up there and they put this endoscope and they go
all the way down to look the larynce. So we said, no,
don't do that, pull it back out and let's look
at the whole area in there.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
It was.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
So we pulled out this thing like this law and
then in the next race we all bet on it
in a one by a mile and had lost lost,
lost loss. So the Stewards called us in and they said,
what the hell do you guys do? So we showed
him the picture of this what came out of its nose.
Some of it's simple.

Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
So as the moral of the story is, they're going
to raise a horse, check its nose before it goes
out on these acts.

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
The management is everything. And I ask a tell another
story a highly forty years ago.

Speaker 6 (01:06:06):
But before you do that, I'd like to give Caroline
a chance to ask a question. So, Carolyn, do you
have any questions for this amazing guy?

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
So many questions?

Speaker 5 (01:06:14):
My goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
So Jeffreys, I called it Jeffrey or dog Zilla prefer okay,
dog Zilla.

Speaker 12 (01:06:19):
So in terms of what you do with your Harvard
degrees and all of that kind of stuff, what advice
would you give people that are trying to get through
this new era to, you know, for the long game,
so they can they can run long.

Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
Well, if you're an entrepreneur, you're presumably you're creating something
new and if you're looking at dad and my secret
was to ask people, how do you know? That simple question?
You know? I went to the luminaries and the trainers
and the veterinarians and the owners and answer. They would
tell me everything and then I would quietly try to
get in there, how do you know? And I usually
found out they had no idea where they made it

(01:06:54):
up or they got it from somebody. To make the money,
I had to spend seven million dollars on research. I
had they earn it somewhere, and I did turnarounds and
I completely rebuild companies changed. I figured out who used
data before there were you know, PCs. I was in
the census data figuring out how to turn around some
chain of department stores in Los Angeles, forty stores and stuff,

(01:07:15):
And I was using census data to try and figure
out what it was that they were good at, and
they were always trying to do something they weren't good at,
and what was successful and wasn't successful in their stuff.
You know, I just didn't believe, but they what they
told me. I had to go to the source data.
I think that's that's what I told people. Ask how
do you know if you're trying to invent something, and
probably if you go really really find out how is

(01:07:37):
that how to know those things, you'll get a new product.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
Great advice. Yeah, we're totally into data. And I shouldn't
probably breathe this up, but I have to constantly pound
on the attorney's like your heart lot and give me
marketing data. It's like, how did we get that client?
Where did they?

Speaker 6 (01:07:53):
But it's important. Yeah, don't have the.

Speaker 5 (01:07:55):
Data, you can't make informed decisions.

Speaker 4 (01:07:57):
And I think we named our world CHAMPI informed decision.

Speaker 13 (01:08:01):
It had the slowest workout of the auction, and they
all the more they passed they go, the more they
sell form. We bought this horse for a big stable
and it became the sprint champion of the world. And
it was the slowest workout at the unction. And they said,
how did you know? I said, because I look at
how they go fast, not how fast they go, and
I knew it was a phenomenal athlete.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
Jeffrey Doug Zilla Cedar horse racing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):
We have fun, you know, And I live on a
farm and we have baby horses. I love it. I
do what I love. You love it? There?

Speaker 5 (01:08:33):
Phil? Are you still in there? Philly?

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
You know I'm forty five miles west of there, near Land.
When they were to Lancaster.

Speaker 5 (01:08:39):
Next time Richard and I drive Bob, we want to
go out and oh yeah, and here's here are the
rest of your stories.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Anyway, I got one more story I want to tell
you about race horses. So it was forty years ago.
This is really important and highly and it was a
normal race, and normally the horses at the end of
the racers stretched down like a quarter of a mile
from the horses last on the horse's first or an
eighth of the mile least up the stretch, and they're
coming around to turn, getting ready to come out to stretch,
and somehow a collie a dog got out on the

(01:09:06):
racetrack and chased them, and they all ended up in
a tight little bunch. You could have thrown a blanket
over all ten of them at the finish line. And
I never forgot it. I said, oh my god, that's
what happens when they're all trying that we had to
try and figure out, you know, we had to find
ways to find which animals were dominant, which is also
important because some of the races are decided in the

(01:09:27):
starting gate by the horses. Sam silly, but it's shrip.
And also like I bought one horse, he was in
this huge field of yearlings, like, oh, I don't know,
thirty forty yearlings and they all had short tail from
biting each other's tails, and it was one with a
long tail. Nobody messed with his tail, and we bought
him and he was a fighter. We named a pup Fighter.

Speaker 5 (01:09:45):
Wow. Well, I would love to hear more of these stories.
We're kind of out of time for today, but this
has just really been fascinating. So this has been Jeffrey
Cedar and his website is EQB FYI And if you're
in the market for a horse or just want to
know more about this stuff and how data applies to

(01:10:06):
horse racing, go on his website and take a look.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
We even give away a lot of data on the website.
We have scientific papers on twelve thousand ors is over
ten years and all still page or to patient. We
just give it away to show them it's not our opinion,
we're actually database.

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):
So we're going to take a commercial break. Stay tuned.
We have Secrets of the Entrepreneurial Mind coming up shortly.
You're listening to Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhart.

Speaker 10 (01:10:32):
I am a non attorney spokesperson representing a team of
lawyers who help people that have been injured or wronged.
If you've been involved in a serious car, truck, or
motorcycle accident, or injured at work, you have rights and
you may be entitled the money for your suffering. Don't
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(01:10:54):
the best personal injury lawyers. You can find, tough lawyers
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find out today for free what kind of compensation you
may be entitled to. Call the legal helpline right now.

Speaker 8 (01:11:17):
Eight hundred four nine two seven oh one four eight
hundred four nine two seven oh one four eight hundred
four nine two seven oh one four. That's eight hundred
four nine two seventy fourteen.

Speaker 6 (01:11:32):
It's Passage to Profit. Now it's time for Noah's retrospective.

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
Noah Fleischmann is our producer here at Passage to Profit,
and he never stops trying to make sense of the
future by looking at the past.

Speaker 14 (01:11:45):
An entrepreneur needs to be ready for anything, especially success.
My mother could have told you about that. It was
over sixty years ago that she and some friends of
hers decided to open up a small night spot in Brooklyn.
The big question was how do we advertise our opening.
The leader of the pack said, well, oh, we'll take
out a newspaper ad for a week. My mom said,
no way, that's way too expensive, and I have a
much better idea. We're going to create a trendy ad

(01:12:07):
on a piece of paper. We're going to xerox about
a trillion of these things, and then we're going to
hire a couple of young kids to hand these out
to people outside the subway station as they come home
at night for about three weeks straight. He said, are
you kidding? They're not going to keep those ads or
even retain them, They're just going to toss them. Well,
when those folks tossed them, the ground was decorated with
ads for the opening of this new night spot for
at least three weeks. On opening night, they had a

(01:12:30):
line outside the place five blocks long. It was a
crazy night, but it was a great one. When you're
an entrepreneur and you're starting up a business, you gotta
be ready for everything and anything. Think outside the box
and be ready for that box when it opens.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Now more with Richard and Elizabeth Passage to Profit and our.

Speaker 5 (01:12:48):
Special guest today has been Caroline Stokes. We also had
Anya Chang and Jeffrey Cedar otherwise known as Dougzilla. Now
it is time for Secrets of the entrepreneur mind. So Caroline,
what is the secret you can share with our audience?

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Well, I want to give you a secret for everybody
to get their head around a CHATCHPT five. I'm hearing
the world on the street. The people are that happy
right now. So my secret for that is ask chatchipt
how you can improve and to ask for chat GPT
to give you a ninety day program on how you
can evolve your critical thinking and how to create a

(01:13:26):
better relationship to create the outcomes you want out to
chat GPT five.

Speaker 5 (01:13:30):
Wow, I love that. And if you want to see
Caroline's website, you can go to the Forward dot co. Okay,
Anya Chain with Taylor dot Style t A E l
o R. Dot Style. What is the secret you can
share with our audience?

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Yeah, I have a social media post that there's a
pictures that I'm on the business clients with.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
So champagne.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
The copy is about the amazing trips in New York's
and needs, such amazing investors and founder and such a
love joy the entrepreneurship journey.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
The behind the thing of the pictures was that I
was in New.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
York raising money for the company I s let on
friends cultures for a multiple different days. It was a
heat waved a hundred degree. I wear a high heel
with a whole bunch of the pop banner for the
evening's conference and hop on the trends. When I hop
on the trend at the moment I realized I was
on the wrong side, get off and run over the
other side, got on the trend and then electricity went

(01:14:28):
off because it was heat waved, and stuck.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
On the trend for like three hours.

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
Eventually get to the New Jerseys and the guide then
showed up and the next meeting the restaurant was electricity
went off again because the heat wave again, so we
were talking in the candles with a hundred degree with swavings.
And then when I back to the hotel for dinner,
I realized I signed up for a wrong plan because
it's cheaper for the tickets, so I actually was.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Not allowed for any meal of the three days, so.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
Anything thease go on and on just like for three
days and eventually the last days and I was in
the meetings and was beating all of the change all
the business cars, and I realized that the launch went
by so quickly. I realized I didn't need anything when
I back to my seats, so the person next door
was very kind and put all the noodles in those

(01:15:17):
to go like Chinese bucks for me. I went to
the airport. It was again he waited for so electricity
went off. So wait in a line for twenty half
hours to check my back and a fly was gone.
So I went back to the line a wait for
another two hours to rebook my fly.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Where it's my turn.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
They said, sorry, you have to rebuy the flights, and
I start quiet. I realized this was totally not my
day for the last few days, and I went back
to my friends and bagging him to allow me to
stay in your living room one more night. And next
day morning I went to an airport away in like
four o'clock in the morning for standing by, because they
say there's the only flight they might have a chance

(01:15:56):
to stand by, And eventually I got on the last
one more seats, which was a business class. So people,
the secret is there when people goimerous in the air,
start a life.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Don't believe it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
That was awesome. Jeffrey Cedar, Doug Zilla website eqb FYI.
What is the secret? You can share?

Speaker 4 (01:16:18):
My secret is you want to do this. You want
to be the entrepreneur, especially in a new area, break
in somewhere. You're going to be a disruptor. You better
be prepared for grueling time, money work. If you bruise easily,
forget it, and you better love it. I did it
because I loved it. I'll tell you how I got started.
I was twenty six years old. I didn't know what
the hell I was going to do with myself, and

(01:16:39):
I want a blind date on a rental to rent
horses with this girl. And instead of falling in love.

Speaker 15 (01:16:44):
With the girl, I fell in love with the horse.
I went crazy, and I was taking lessons and I
bought a or. I get looked and said how can
I make a living doing this? And when I finally
run at a farm and put my horse on my farm,
I threw open my arms.

Speaker 4 (01:16:56):
Tony were living together, and I, you know, I met it.
I just it was a big deal. Meanwhile, I was
taking this Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School at
the same time, and I had to do it thesis
and it was like March and I hadn't done it.
So I had to go into my advisor and it
was Archibald Cox, the big guy from the Midnight Massacre
with Nixon, the famous lawyer, and he was a famous guy.

(01:17:17):
It's a big harbord dad. I had to go in
and he's in the stacks. So you go through a
bazillion rows of books in the middle and nothing in
the huge building, and there's this desk near a window,
and I sit down and says, well, how's the thesis
coming along? And I'm kind of looking at the floor
and he says, oh, he got the picture right away.
He says, well, what are you interested in? And I
looked at the floor again. I said to horses, and

(01:17:39):
I thought he was gonna throw me out. And he
takes the turns around, takes this big book off the
back of the shelf and he drops it on the
desk and the dust goes up and he says, this
is the book that the statute that Govern's horse racing
in Massachusetts. Nobody has ever looked at it here in Harvard.
I want you to do it, and I did, and
I said, that's where I'm going. I'm going into racing.

(01:17:59):
And I'm too be a jock. Ann't have any money,
and I'm too old. I'm not connected, but I have
I was pre med at Harvard, so I have scientific
stuff and I have business stuff. I'm gonna change it.
It's not gonna all be the same way it was
three hundred years ago. And then I started on this
what probably was ridiculous journey. It took twenty years. It
was of poverty and working working day jobs. I was

(01:18:22):
taking data. I had it on big disc. I was
going up to New York because a buddy him I
was in, who was from Harvard, was a doctor at
the hospital at Mount Sina. And I would go up
with this huge disk and at midnight and go He
would get me on their computer and I would run everything,
and then by seven am, I was off and out.
You know. It was just like her, like like Anya,
I was aquazed. We invented stuff. We finally got a break,

(01:18:45):
and thank you God that Orse did what he was
we thought he'd do.

Speaker 5 (01:18:49):
That's great. You know, Jeffy, you've got a lot of
podcasting in you. You can start your own podcast anyway.
Richard your heart, what's your secret you could share?

Speaker 6 (01:18:59):
I would say one thing that's really important for entrepreneurs,
even when they're first starting out, is to stay current.
So I think one of the challenges I faced when
I was starting Gearhart Law was with all of the
things going on, I found it challenging to stay on
top of the latest trends, technology, law cases, all of

(01:19:22):
those things, especially on the accounting side. I did not
keep my books quite the way they needed to be kept.
But I do think that even if you're starting out,
you're at the early stages, you've got way too much
to do and not enough time. It's worth it to
spend a little bit of time every week just staying
current in your industry and staying current with other things

(01:19:45):
that are going on, because you're going to have to
be aware of that technology or that trend in order
to steer your business in the right direction. Fortunately, it
gets easier as you go along and you have more resources.
But I think it's really important, and when you're starting
out too.

Speaker 5 (01:20:01):
Yes, very well said, Well, I'm going to go in
the weeds a little bit because we do this every week.
So I'm going to talk about marketing and videos. And
before this show, I looked for each of these three
guests on YouTube and I found videos of each of them.
And I'm not the only one doing this. So I
feel like, if you're a serious business person, you need

(01:20:22):
to have at least one video of yourself out there
on YouTube or somewhere on your website wherever it is,
of you speaking. And the other thing that you have
to do with those videos too, for chat GPT and
the other search engines, is you have to transcribe them,
and there's software that will transcribe them, and they're a
couple of different ways you can handle those transcripts. They

(01:20:43):
have to be online and visible to the search engines,
and those are really going to help you define your brand.
And I think if you pair that with Caroline's exercise
of putting everything about yourself in there and asking how
you can approve chat, GPT is going to see that
when people ask about you, that's the stuff that's going
to come out. So anyway, video and transcriptions.

Speaker 6 (01:21:04):
Passage to Profit is a nationally syndicated radio show appearing
in thirty eight markets across the United States. In addition,
Passage to Profit has also been recently selected by feed
Spot Podcasters database as a top ten entrepreneur interview podcast.
Thank you to the P two P team, our producer
Noah Fleischman and our program coordinator Alisha Morrissey, our studio

(01:21:28):
assistant risicat Busari, and our social media powerhouse Carolina Tabares.
Look for our podcast tomorrow anywhere you get your podcasts.
Our podcast is ranked in the top three percent globally.
You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, x and
on our YouTube channel. And remember, while the information on
this program is believed to be correct, never take a

(01:21:50):
legal step without checking with your legal professional first. Gearheart
Law is here for your patent, trademark and copyright needs.
You can find us at gearheartlaw dot com and contact
us free consultation. Take care everybody, Thanks for listening, and
we'll be back next week.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
The proceeding was a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.