Entrepreneurs: Merging AI with Human Compassion to Reinvent Supply Chains with Shekar Natarajan

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following is a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
This is the moment of anything.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
What does that do for an employee?

Speaker 4 (00:13):
I'm just going to freeze my title.

Speaker 5 (00:15):
I'm Richard Gerhart and I'm Elizabeth Gearheart. Are you thinking
of starting a business or have one you're trying to grow?
Stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Ramping up your business? The time is near. You've given
it hard, Now get it in gear. It's Passage to
Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.

Speaker 6 (00:34):
I'm Richard Gearhart, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service
intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks, and copyrights.

Speaker 7 (00:42):
And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart, not an attorney, but I do
marketing for Gearhart Law. And I am the founder of
gear Media Studios, a full service podcast studio.

Speaker 6 (00:51):
Welcome to Passage to Profit, the Road to Entrepreneurship, where
we talk with entrepreneurs and celebrities who tell their stories
about their business journey and also share helpful insights about
the successes that they've had. Very special treat we have
Shaker Natrojhan, who is a business leader and strategist for
AI guided supply chain management. And he's also the visionary

(01:13):
founder of orchestro dot AI. And he also has one
hundred and fifty patents, so we're going to have to
ask him about that.

Speaker 5 (01:20):
Oh my gosh. Yes.

Speaker 7 (01:22):
And then we have two amazing guests. Now I have
to ask you this question. Do you have a company
where your HR systems, your software systems are all introverts
and they just will not.

Speaker 5 (01:32):
Talk to each other.

Speaker 7 (01:34):
If so, you want to hear what Noel London has
to say because she is helping clean up the HR
software mess so you can get everything you need when
you need it. And then we have Kurt Moore. I
have to ask you this. Have you ever been worried
that a squatter would take your house? I mean there's
been stories on the news about people squatting people's houses
and getting the title somehow and selling it out from

(01:55):
under them. Well, worry no more, because if you listen
to Kurt Moore, you could figure out how to keep
this from.

Speaker 5 (02:00):
Happening to you.

Speaker 7 (02:01):
And coming up later on it's Noah's Retrospective along with
Secrets of the Entrepreneurial Mind.

Speaker 6 (02:08):
Well that's awesome. I can't wait to get to our
distinguished yest. But before we do that, it's time for
your new business journey. Two and five Americans are business
owners or thinking about becoming business owners, and so we
like to ask our panel a question. And today's question
is what's the smartest thing you did in the first
ninety days of starting your business and what do you

(02:31):
wish you'd done differently? So, Shaker, what are your thoughts
on this?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, thank you for having me on the show. I
know that you know it's a real honor to be here.
So like I would guess, like I wouldn't say this
is the smartest thing, but I felt that this was
the right thing to do, which was to really build
with model clarity, build a company with model clarity versus

(02:59):
tick nical clarity. Right. I did not go after the product,
market fit and all those things. I just said, does
the values and the market fit together? And I had
to ask myself, is the problem really worth solving even
if it fails. So when you said and that became

(03:21):
the compass of what I was trying to basically go after.

Speaker 6 (03:26):
So when you focused on the moral aspects of the business,
I mean, there's a pretty wide variety of morals out there.

Speaker 8 (03:35):
How did you continue yourself to that? How did you
make that work?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, you know, for one, basically you you know, you're
a product of you know, how you grow up. Okay,
And for me, I had this incredible journey in my life.
I come from slums in India, where everything about access
to education, you know, paying for funerals or even like,

(04:05):
you know, just attending school was a difficult thing, you know.
And I grew up in a house, in a single
room with like, you know, eight members in my house.
And when I came to the United States, I just
had thirty four dollars in my pocket. But what made
me who I am is my father's hand. My father
used to make one hundred and fifty rupees one hundred

(04:29):
and fifty rupeace, which is a dollars seventy five a month,
and he never kept it for himself. He actually would
go and help everyone around in the community. And so
he left a lot of angels from Richard and those
angels have guided me. I remember once I swirled on

(04:51):
a five lane highway in Washington, d C. At three
forty five in the afternoon. I missed everything by a
whisker and I stood on the brake lane. What do
you call it? Not physics, not luck, it's angels.

Speaker 6 (05:07):
But just for your information, in New Jersey, we call
that the Jersey slide when we cross five lines of
traffic and one for us smooth.

Speaker 7 (05:17):
Well speaking, I mean speaking of angels, I gotta tell
you my guardian angels have been are pretty worn out.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
And I lived in an industry where it is deeply human,
right like supply chains. If you think about it, five
hundred million people work in the world of supply chain,
five hundred million from all the way from extracting raw
materials to making the products, distributing it out and bringing

(05:50):
it to your door. Five hundred million people. The only
two countries bigger than that is India and China. Okay,
So if you are actually going to change the industry,
you have to basically humanize everything that you're trying to do.
You cannot like forget what makes the system. And so

(06:16):
for me, if I'm going to be changing the world
of logistics and supply chain, organizing and orienting myself just
like my father did it. For me, being an angel
in many people's life was what I wanted to be
in this journey and helping that human goodness to come

(06:36):
out in the process of making this company.

Speaker 6 (06:41):
I mean, that's great, and I do want to come
back to this during your interview because I think that's
a really interesting topic because I think it's it's very
aspirational and I'm curious about how you took that and
those principles and integrated them into your business. But I
want to hear from our other panelists too, Kurt, do

(07:02):
you have any thoughts?

Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yeah, well, I go Shaker. I appreciate the opportunity to
be on the podcast. I look forward to this very much,
and I'm very impressed with what Shaker just said. That's
very moving. It's got a great story there. I'm certainly
interested in learning more about that. With respect to myself
and my company's journey the first ninety days, I would

(07:26):
say things that we did right and I look back
on and saying we got that right. Would be definitely
engaged a strong diverse management team, professionals including legal, accounting, finance, marketing,
and as a leader, I think it's very important to
keep those people communicating, keep on alnd, and make sure

(07:48):
that we adapt to changes in what's going on in
our business cycle, things that I maybe you wish you
did better looking back. I think company sometimes and we
were a little bit guilty of it, just just waiting
too long to start. I think oftentimes startup companies are
always saying, well, if I just do this, then maybe

(08:10):
I'll be ready to go. Or Okay, we did that,
now let's do this too. I want to be sure
that's perfect before we press go. I would just encourage people,
you know, get it close enough and then go and
and and let the let the let the business start
to naturally form. Uh you're gonna make mistakes. I can't
imagine anybody has ever started a company and been perfect.

(08:33):
And I can't imagine anyone's ever come out and just said,
you know, I wouldn't change a thing. Uh So, I
think just some of the reluctance to to start to
try to set that aside and get it. Get yourself
squared up and ready to go. Be Believe in your product,
Believe in your service, whatever you're offering. Take a hard
look at the market that you're proposing to engage. Make

(08:55):
sure you have a story of why would my product
or my service be useful in the current market, The
current competition environment. Whether that's a pricing strategy or just
a better product or better customer service. Whatever it is
that your story is, be sure to promote that and
then stick with it and enter the market.

Speaker 8 (09:15):
Great.

Speaker 6 (09:15):
Thank you, Kurt So Noel, welcome to the show. Noel London,
tell us about what you did right in the first
ninety days and maybe what you would do differently looking
back at it.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, thanks for having me. As Richard mentioned, my name
is Noel London. I'm the founder and CEO of Aluminus.
We're the first employee data platform that is powered by AI,
built for the mid market, and built with a community
of about three hundred different HR leaders. You know, I
would say I think similar to Shaker, you know, I

(09:50):
think that there was a whole lot of journey that
happened before those first ninety days. I would actually say
that the journey before the first ninety days is probably
the most important for myself personally.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
You know, I was fortunate to start working with entrepreneurs
right out of undergrad with the Peace Corps. I was
down in Nicaragua for a couple of years. Learned there
that I'd actually been an entrepreneur and didn't necessarily know
it and didn't have the vocabulary for it at the time.
But I'd had businesses before, and I knew that, you know,

(10:27):
to me, entrepreneurship was all about creative problem solving. I
fell in love with it. I knew that I was
going to be a founder and I was going to
start a company. And so what I did is I
spent about a decade getting ready to launch this company.
So you know, Kurt, I hear you on you wait
too long to start. But what I did during that
decade is I spent a lot of time around entrepreneurs

(10:51):
I worked for startups, I was an investor myself, I
started incubator programs, and I led corporate innovation teams. And
so what that taught me is, you know, how do
you build great companies. It also allowed me to help
a whole lot of people along the way, because when
you start a company, you need a lot of help.
You ask a lot of favors, you ask too many favors,

(11:14):
but you really need to be able to build up
that social capital before you launch. So I would say
that for me, you know, before those ninety days, there
was a whole lot of work that went into this thing.
I was definitely not the person that said, oh, I
thought about starting a company. A lot of people say
they think about starting a company, It doesn't mean that
you're actually doing it. They're very different things. So for me,

(11:37):
you know, I would say getting ready to launch the company.
If anybody that's listening is thinking about that, you're serious
about it, You're ready to give everything up for it.
There's so many resources that are out on the market.
They're free resources. There's a lot of good advice. There's
also a lot of bad advice that's out there. But
really take in the resources that are there to support you. You

(12:01):
don't have to start on your own. In my first
ninety days, I think the best thing that I did
is I had a paying customer and I was onboarding
said paying customers, so didn't start the clock, didn't go
in was This was very much a side of the
desk type of thing until we had real revenue and
I actually had to quit my job to keep running

(12:22):
this business. So I would say, you know, focus on
the part of getting ready before you make the jump,
really know the problem, really know that there's a market
for this problem. Before you jump in, see that somebody's
going to pay you. They're going to sign a contract
before you go all in on this solution, and then

(12:42):
those first ninety days were an absolute blur. All I
will say is I'm glad that we just moved really fast.
We kind of like Shaker mentioned and he was talking
about values for us, we set our values and our
behaviors on day one for the organization, and we just
moved and we went and we were super nimble because

(13:03):
those first ninety days, all you're doing is just learning
and adapting. So you know, that's all all I would
say of you know what went into those first ninety days.
If I could change anything.

Speaker 9 (13:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
I kind of can't look back. I made a million
mistakes probably in those first ninety days. But I also
think that you know, they built us and they made
us stronger as well.

Speaker 7 (13:27):
Perfect Elizabeth, Well, when we decided that we were going
to refurbish our studio for use by other people, I
think one thing that we did right in the first
ninety days. First of all, we did do a lot
of research to see if there would be a market.
I actually started a meetup and this was like a
year before the studio opened, to see if there were

(13:48):
local people who would come and that would want to
do use a podcast or content creation studio.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
And then one thing we did right.

Speaker 7 (13:57):
Was I started really network and we had a grand opening.
We had the mayor come with the big pair of
scissors and the ribbon. It's you know, it's a store front. Basically,
it's a physical space that people rent and got a
lot of business from that. So we have a corporate
client now that's a repeat customer, and we've had a
few other people use the studio and some people say

(14:18):
they want to do.

Speaker 5 (14:19):
Repeat business here.

Speaker 7 (14:22):
Getting people over the hump is a little tough because
people don't like being on video and it's kind of
intimidating with all these cameras that we have in here
and everything. But that was one I think mistake I made.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
Was that I didn't realize I mean, I thought.

Speaker 7 (14:35):
I would do some coaching, but when we first had
this idea, we thought people would just come and know how.

Speaker 5 (14:39):
To do it and just use a studio.

Speaker 7 (14:41):
I really have to be a hands on coach, which
I'm getting paid for. So that's fine, and I enjoy
helping people in doing it, but that I think one
mistake was underestimating how much help people need to start
a podcast because it's not easy for people. This is
not easy and there's a lot of steps to it.

Speaker 6 (15:00):
Yeah, well that's great. I guess, you know, I'm listening
to everybody talk and I'm just thinking about when when
we started Gearhart Law. I think I did everything backwards,
So maybe I should start with all the things that
I did wrong first. Well, for example, like it's been
twenty years since we've been we started, and it's only

(15:22):
been like the last year that I've actually even been
really thinking hard about company culture. I started as an attorney,
and we're not really trained in you know, business protocol,
brisons structures. I took one class that told me I
had to learn about marketing, I had to learn about
you know, finance, I had to learn about HR And

(15:44):
over the years, I've just kind of maneuvered my way
through these and you know, I've definitely had strategies.

Speaker 8 (15:52):
But but when you.

Speaker 6 (15:54):
Talk about things like cultures and and values, I'm not
sure I really completely understood that concept until you know,
just recently and even now just kind of talking about it.
I think what I thought would help make us successful
was my personal knowledge of intellectual property and also I

(16:16):
felt like I had an authenticity that clients would find appealing.
And so I came from the corporate world, where attorneys
had the company as a client and you were always
thinking about the company's interests first before your own personal interest,
and so when it came to counseling clients, I was

(16:37):
always like, well, what's in the best interest of you
less than what's in my best interests as a business owner.
And I think that that you know, single kind of
concept went a really long way in helping us, you know, grow,
and so I think, you know, the best thing that

(16:58):
I did was, I think just was maybe not spend
so much time thinking in terms of business structures and
just kind of being myself and you know, learning as
I went. And I guess if I had things to
do over again, maybe I would be a little bit
more deliberate and maybe I would get a little bit

(17:18):
more education in the ways of managing a company. But
everything's turned out great, And I guess, you know, what
they say, based on what I've heard here is, you know,
the first ninety days of a company can really kind
of define your trajectory. And so I think when you're
doing it, you just kind of have to trust your
gut and you know, build momentum as we go. So

(17:42):
that's the takeaway from that. So now we need to
talk to our featured guest and a little bit more detail.
Shaker once again, welcome to the show. If your supply
chain could think for itself and outsmart your current one,
then Shaker, not.

Speaker 8 (17:58):
Rajan, is the guy to talk to.

Speaker 6 (18:00):
He's a leader in supply chain management and strategy and
the founder and CEO of orchestro AI. They orchestrate entire
delivery networks without human intervention and have transformed giants like
Walmart and PepsiCo. And the first question I want to
ask maybe obvious, Shaker, but what is supply chain?

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Well, supply chain and logistics is basically the art and
signs of movement of things, Okay, and this is like,
this is the movement of anything. To be honest, anything
can be considered a supply chain. Like you know, bees
going and pollinating is a supply chain because it actually

(18:44):
creates the ecosystem. Products moving from China all the way
to our door is a supply chain, right you Basically
like manufacturing, like something in your hand, handcrafting it and
trying to get it into someone else's hand. Is supply chain, right,
So supply chain is all around us, but it is

(19:06):
also invisible to us, invisible to us. The reason why
I say that it's like an underbelly. People only hear
talking about supply chains when things don't work. Imagine COVID.
Imagine vaccines not being there. Imagine like PUREL hand sanitizer

(19:27):
is not available. Imagine diaper is not available. Imagine kids
not getting the toys during Christmas. That was because supply
chains were very fragile. There were broken systems, And it's
a collection of many, many, many, many different parties. So
let me give you a good example, like a can

(19:50):
of you know, a pair like a doll pair goes
the pairs grow in Chile, gets transported to Thailand, gets
cut there, gets packaged in China, and moves to New
York store and get sold for fifty cents. So that

(20:10):
pair actually moved to twenty thousand miles across the world
before it showed up in your hands. And there are
so many people who actually touch the journey. So people
think of supply chains as these like sophisticated systems, but
these are all humans, you know, doing a lot of

(20:33):
miracles so that you are not disappointed as a customer.

Speaker 6 (20:38):
So Schenker, So you're a master of artificial intelligence. And
here we are talking about human beings being a part
of the essential part of the supply chain process. Yeah,
how do you marry those two? Isn't that a paradox?

Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's what people would say, right, No, No, absolutely not.
And and and the story actually goes back to the
genesis of what I was talking about. Right, So in
two thousand and five, Okay, my father slipped into coma.

(21:19):
He was an angel maker in many people's lives, and
I was rushed into to go to India, and I
when I reached home, my father basically is eighteen nine
eighty eight percent of his brain was completely damaged. He
couldn't he couldn't recognize me. I couldn't recognize him because
he's was completely like fragile and he or here he

(21:41):
was like a healthy guy who would like do yoga
every day, would like keep himself very fit. And he
slipped into coma. And at that time I had to
make a decision about whether my father needs to be
alive or not. Oh my gosh, And you don't you
don't hit like let's go button, you pause, you think,

(22:05):
you think, and you think, and sometimes you think for
thirteen days and never get the answer. And I woke
up on the fourteenth day and I said, like, my
father probably doesn't want to live the way he's living.
And when I had that, when I went through that,

(22:27):
it just changed the way I think about leadership. It
just like tempered my entire philosophy about love, care, affection
and consciousness.

Speaker 8 (22:38):
How did it change?

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Similar thing?

Speaker 8 (22:41):
What changed so for me?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Like you know, like at that time, I made a
promise to my father. I said, I'm going to look
out for all the angels that are similar to him
and make them empowered. And my life has been a
series of accidents. Elizabeth and Richard, Like I work for
large companies, you know. I work for Coke, I work

(23:04):
for PepsiCo, I work for Warmart, I work for the
Disney Company. I work for a basically American eagle. One
thing which was common in all of these company the
law of large numbers, love of large numbers, A lot
of people, a lot of people, a lot of people,
and so all these are incredibly beautiful supply chain companies.
And I envisioned and I kept seeing because you set

(23:27):
your intentions and you want your mind begins to see
what you want to see. And I started seeing angels everywhere, everywhere.
And then in twenty seventeen, I had a similar experience.
Now my mother was sick, and I became the voice
for my mom for a stillness, for a will. And

(23:51):
by then, by God, like I was super successful. I
had all the titles, but I had nothing. I felt
like hollow. I was chasing validation from others. I was
not chasing the dream that I wanted. And I made
a promise to my father. So at that time, like
I had the second calling, and at that time, I
was fully determined by God, I'm actually going to create

(24:15):
something very fascinating for like, you know, for humans to
become like extraordinary in what they do to capture the humanness,
Like the guy who goes out of the way and
doesn't care that he did not finish the delivery on time,
but goes to an elderly house, you know, like you

(24:35):
know a customer who's elderly and makes a delivery of
grocery and pharmaceuticals to them. He didn't care about like
basically like running over time or not over and over time,
he just did what was right. The guy was running
into the house of an elderly person whose house was
on fire. These are not like made up stories. These

(24:57):
are actually the real stories that people don't hear about.

Speaker 5 (25:01):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Right. And how do you capture the humanness of these
people and make them extraordinary souls? And when you're able
to do that, every transformation, every industry change becomes easy
because you have the power of masters with you power.

Speaker 6 (25:19):
How do you capture that? How do you capture within
the system within a business context, how do you how
do you capture the humanity there and you can channel
it to the right business purpose.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah. So, so basically the way we have conceptualized you know,
if I if I just sold virtues and values and
everything like, you know, we live in a very capitalistic world,
no one will buy that, and let's be honest about it.

Speaker 8 (25:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
So, so the way our network works is you see
this at your door today. You have a FedEx driver
showing up at the door, a UPS driver showing up
at the door. You know, another carrier like an Amazon,
and a USPS mailman. Everyone is coming to your door
and subconsciously people are replicating building more delivery companies to

(26:11):
the door. The problem is it's very similar to utility.
You don't have like one company delivering water to your bedroom,
one to your master bathroom, one to basically your living room,
one for livings. You don't have that. You have like
one unified system. So the most efficient last mihile is
one where basically you're consolidating everything to the same door.
So that gives the efficiency play. Now I overlay that

(26:36):
as a feature. Like what I'm talking about these digital angels,
the angels of compassion, the angels of like you know, temperance,
the angel of so these are all virtues that make
us very human, and we give the control back to
the humans to basically override the machine decisions. I'm a
delivery driver, I am making a delivery. I know that

(26:58):
I have to go there can make an exception to
the process. So you bring the human into the loop
and you know and basically amplifying their goodness while you're
driving the efficiency at the same time.

Speaker 7 (27:13):
So if you're I'm just curious about how this fits
in with your work with the agentic AI. So if
you're programming AI agents, yeah, which I want.

Speaker 5 (27:24):
To have my own like thousand AI agents to do
everything that I don't want to do.

Speaker 7 (27:29):
I mean, is there a room for human intervention if
you're using AI agents to do all these tasks for you?

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Obviously? Right, Like you know, like you know, people have
been very fascinated about autonomous delivery for a while, like
you know, I like I remember, like like I have
a lot of patents on that, and you know, people
have been talking about like autonomy is coming, like it's
almost coming, It's almost there at your doorstep, and it
never came even after a decade. You know why because
we I'll give you a classic example, and like this

(27:57):
will drive home the point. In India, when you're driving
around right, like people like put the right hand and
take a left turn, they put the left hand out
and take a right turn, and they put both hands
up and then they dry straight. So the driver would
basically like the guy who's driving the vehicle is trained

(28:20):
to think in three sixty degrees and like you know,
like don't even pay attention. I understand the context of
like what's going on, so they're able to adapt. But
what they're not able to adapt is a cow sitting
in the center of the road. The cow cannot communicate
its intent to you. It doesn't understand your intent to her, right,

(28:41):
And so we live in a very similar society where
things are always going to be heterrogenous, always hytrogenous. So
we are always going to live in a hybrid world.
And hence, basically, like you know, human is always going
to discern more, feel more, think, think. Obviously they can think.

(29:04):
Thinking is actually like now getting like you know, sort
of outsourced to AI.

Speaker 8 (29:10):
But the feeling completely by the way.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Right, But but the feeling and and and and the
humanness is still very human. You cannot replace it. You
cannot replace it.

Speaker 8 (29:22):
So we have to take a commercial break.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Now.

Speaker 6 (29:24):
This has been a fascinating discussion and has really started
opening my eyes a bit to uh, the interaction between
human beings and potentially and artificial intelligence.

Speaker 8 (29:36):
And and when we come.

Speaker 6 (29:37):
Back, I really want to know what the word heterogenous
means because I haven't heard that one before. And listening
to Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhart, our
special guest shaker not Progen, who is the CEO of
orchestro dot AI, will be back right after.

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Speaker 1 (31:56):
Now back to Passage to Profit once again.

Speaker 8 (31:59):
Richard and Eliza with Heart and.

Speaker 7 (32:01):
Our special guest Shaker Na John and we are talking
about supply chains and AI.

Speaker 8 (32:07):
He's a very high level thinker.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
He is.

Speaker 7 (32:09):
And Shaker used a word that I think it's kind
of a new one.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (32:15):
Could you repeat the word and explain it to me,
because it sounds like it's a good word, and I
want to know what it means.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
You mean to say heterogenous or you mean to say
angelic intelligence, like both of those, Well, I'll explain both
of those.

Speaker 12 (32:31):
So, so what is heterogenous is like dissimilar things like
basically an autonomous vehicle can go side by side with
the guy who's actually driving the car.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Right, So we live in a society where we're always
going to have things which need to go exist together,
and we as a humanity have always co existed together,
like we we welcome people who don't look like us,
like look at me, just look at me. I basically
came from India with thirty four dollars in my pocket.
This country is the most beautiful country that anyone can

(33:08):
be in. It created so many opportunities for me, and
I'm sure like you, I wouldn't have been the same
if you know, I was elsewhere because all I had
to do is keep my intentions clean and keep like
working hard, and like things started to happen to me.
So that is the beauty of this country that makes

(33:29):
it very unique, Like it is welcoming, it is beautiful,
like it gives you opportunities, like you know, if you
have right intentions, good goals, it's going to make you
like you know, you know, realize your dreams. So for me,
when I think about like, like all these systems that
we keep talking about, whether it's AI, whether it's artificial,

(33:51):
like an artificial intelligence autonomy, like you know, all kinds
of robots running around boy, like you know, like these
are all great things, but what it does not do
is like feel like a human and hence, like, instead
of building artificial intelligence, how about we start building angelic intelligence.

(34:12):
Angel intelligence Angelic intelligence is bringing out the goodness in people,
unleashing that imagination, unleashing that creativity, unleashing that kindness. See
what happened in Texas such a disaster, such a disaster,
but one of the most beautiful things that happened in
that even in that like trying circumstances, is people who

(34:35):
did not know other people just showed up out of love,
out of compassion. How does a machine capture that?

Speaker 8 (34:45):
Well? You know, it's interesting.

Speaker 6 (34:48):
As we go through this AI transition and we integrate
artificial intelligence more and more into our lives, I think
most of us meet it with yeah, some mixture of
fear and excitement. But I don't think anybody's talking about

(35:09):
the potential to enhance the human aspect of people. I
think we're all or I am, at least, looking at
it sometimes as a way of sort of almost taking
things away from us, taking away the opportunity to to
think or to master skills, and not they're not really

(35:32):
being a replacement for those activities, right, Yeah. And if
you if you're looking at it from as an additive
rather than a subtractive, then I think that that can
bring new potential to us. I'm not sure what form
that would take, but I think there could be potential
there absolutely.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
See, Like I I like, you know, let's rewind history.
Let's think about history, let's think about civilizations. I come
from a land where there's a lot of cultural heritage
dates long back. It goes like long, long back, and
there was you know, like and this I'm not talking

(36:12):
and glorifying India and all that stuff. I don't want
you guys to think that, but like, there was a
notion of zero, there was a notion of mathematics, there
was a more notion of physics. There was a notion
of astronomy. There was a notion of astrology. Right, all
of these existed, and over many generations it got lost

(36:35):
and then like in eighteenth century people show up and
start like you know, basically figuring out that like sun
does not, like you know, rotate around Earth like it's
the vice versa, right, and like you know, math gets
figured out like and like you know, gravity gets figured out.
And but like you know, when you go read like
some scriptures, like you know, people are levitating, how the

(36:56):
heck was that possible? How are they building temperate like
you know, temples. It's basically carried many boulders up the
hill and they were able to construct a beautiful temple
with architectural marvel in it. Who actually taught them that?
And what was lost? And why was it lost? And
in the world of AI, this is the most like

(37:18):
scary thing that actually bothers me. If you keep training AI,
it would think baby peacock. It is basically the smaller
version of the peacock. But we all know baby peacocks
don't look like peacocks, by the way, and people will
think that baby peacocks are small peacocks. Right, So we're

(37:41):
going to lose the context and basically the intellectual property
of what it is, and we're going to assume what
you read and what you see is reality. It is
not reality. It is hallucination, right.

Speaker 5 (37:55):
Well, and Richard read an article just the other day
to bring this up.

Speaker 7 (37:59):
So how this person was saying, well, you know, just
accept hallucinations as part of life. You know, you're just
going to have to live with them. And Richard, I
are like that, we don't think so, I mean.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
We're not gonna have to settle for anything that we
don't have to settle for. It's free will, right.

Speaker 7 (38:18):
And I think I was at a seminar and a
few different people spoke about AI in different industries, and
one thing that came out is AI does I'd like
that you say, I doesn't have the compassion, but it
also doesn't have the curiosity. So AI absolutely, yeah, it's
not going to do basic, basic empirical scientific research because

(38:40):
it doesn't even know what it's trying to do, right, because.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
All it did is like learn the data from the world.

Speaker 8 (38:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
The world is basically curated with good data and garbage, right,
and like you basically mixing the good with the garbage,
and you're you know, eventually you're going to come up
with all garbage, and like, you know, let let me
give you one simple exercise for all the readers and
all the viewers on this podcast, please go do this once.
So come up with a biased solution of something like

(39:08):
say like, you know, like I'm the greatest guy in
the world, and just give your resume and AI would say, like,
give it to chat GPT and it would say, yes,
you're the greatest guy in the world. And here's why
there's a confirmation biased for that. Now take the same
resume and give it to GROCK and say just shred
this like resume and you say, yeah, this is like

(39:29):
the lousiest resume I can find in the world. And
then take it to another one and say, give me
a moderate view of everything, and then it will say like,
here are all the strends, here are all the weaknesses.
What is it doing. It's confirming your biases. Mm hmm. Right,
So models have been trained with a lot of bias
in insight and with a lot of data that is

(39:54):
like you know, is available generally not all general purpose data,
is right. Why do I say that? Sometimes you go
to Google and see like if the if a restaurant
is open, it says it's open, but it's not really open. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (40:08):
Yeah, Well before the show, Elizabeth brought up the SAP,
which is an ERP system that was I don't know
first popularized, probably back in the eighties, right and nineties.
But at the time people thought that those ERP systems
and it just it was a software that would organize

(40:30):
operations for a company, right, so you would organize invoicing
and inventory, and the idea was to use software to
essentially kind of micromanage different aspects of the company. And
it was thought that that that SAP ERP system would
make things more profitable. Well it's been years and those

(40:54):
ERP systems have worked somewhat, but they're not perfect and
they still require a lot of human intervention.

Speaker 8 (41:01):
And I think the.

Speaker 6 (41:03):
Point that Elizabeth was going to make I can put
words in your mouth there, yes, was that you know,
this is not so far away now from the artificial intelligence.

Speaker 8 (41:13):
That there was a lot.

Speaker 6 (41:14):
Of optimism to begin with, and it did do a
lot of useful things, but as things played out, it
turned out not to be the perfect solution to everything.
And I'm kind of interested, shaker and what you think
about that?

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, so let let me let me give you the
real perspective, right, Like, so, so all of these plannings
like let me go back to the evolution of supply chains,
like I think, like the leaders would really love to know,
like how did supply chain even evolve on all these things?
Like you know, you know, And so there were really

(41:50):
four like evolutions to supply chain as we know today, right.
The first one was the world of GM's and Fords
and the milkman, two extremes. The GM and Ford was
a vertically integrated supply chain in the sense they made

(42:11):
their own thoughts, they made their own assembly, they made
they made their own cars, and basically they had their
own distributors where you would get the car. So it
was they managed the end to end to end process.
And then there were the milkmen, who actually would milk
and come and give you the bottle of milk at
your door. So it was it was like do it yourself.
So those are two extremes of the supply chain that existed,

(42:34):
and it was not even called one at that time,
you know, people called it with a different name. And
then the the the economy opened and people started to
find where can I produce cheaper than what I'm doing
and who are my consumers? So everything got separated in
time and space. So the producer happened to be in China,

(43:00):
and the raw material happened to be in Tanzania, and
basically the medal was supposed to come from Congo basin
because they were all the cheapest sources. So the hunt
for the cheapest source and how do I manage the
pipeline of the flow of goods became the second evolution
of supply chains. That's why when you see and talk
to supply chain people from the nineties and the two thousands,

(43:23):
all of these software is that you're talking about. You know,
Richard and Elizabeth, they were all good in managing the
procurement processes like how do I pay my bills and
how do I plan the inventory?

Speaker 11 (43:34):
Right?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Okay. Then came the third evolution, which is Amazonification, right,
which is I click a button and I get it,
So stop going to the stores, get it to my house.
Stop buying a basket, give me like one item, aunt
of time. That's the world that Amazon created. So what
used to be available in a thousand stores. You would
go to a Walmart store. You would go to like

(43:57):
the closest neighborhood store. You buy stuff and you come
back home, so you're buying your own basket. Now it
had to go access one hundred and thirty million households.
And then as Amazon became more and more popular, this
was a third evolution, So it became like it went
from B to B businesses like you know, business to
business movement to business to consumer movement. Very different one

(44:20):
hundred and thirty million households, very different than going to
a thousand doors. Now everyone is trying to catch up
on that journey. That's where the future is going to
go with supply chains. And in that world, the consumer
you expect something to be coming to your door at

(44:40):
a specific time. So it's like a factory, like thinking
I wanted at eight o'clock, So it has to leave
a certain like depot by like you know, six o'clock.
Hence it needs to get there by like five o'clock.
Hence someone needs to get it like from the other
place on an eight hour journey, you know, to that.

(45:00):
And hence the entire supply chain is stitched like a
time based network. So what happens in a world where
so many people are involved? Nothing works exactly to the plan.
And if nothing works to the plan, what do you need?
Not another planning system? What you need is a better

(45:20):
execution system which would adapt to these changes, and the
world has not built one. So a SAP, while a
great planning system, could not really figure out how to
manage exceptions, and hence the humans are always involved in that.
So this journey of perfection is one of like evolution,

(45:43):
it's a utopian goal. Perfection is utopia. You're never perfect,
and hence there's always going to be human in the loop.

Speaker 8 (45:53):
Well, that's reassuring, I think perspective.

Speaker 7 (45:57):
Yeah, And I think in terms of that, instead of
worrying about AI taking your job, you have to make
AI work for you right now. And so yeah, So
I had a meetup last night and I'll talk about
that a little later, and I put it through a
software program and then I took it and I put
it through chat jiput and said do a summary email.
The meetup was like an hour and a half long,

(46:18):
two hours long, and it's split it out and it's
like perfect. It wasn't one hundred percent perfect, because nothing's perfect.

Speaker 5 (46:27):
But in the past it would have taken me like
two or three hours.

Speaker 8 (46:30):
Yeah, I mean through all that thing.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
I mean, how can you how can you how can
you resist a software that does that we have time
for one more question or comment from Shaker, And we
did mention at the top of the show that you
had one hundred and fifty patents as.

Speaker 8 (46:45):
An intellectual property lawyer.

Speaker 6 (46:46):
Of course, I'm enormously curious about this, but maybe for
our listeners, you can tell us which one of those
one hundred and fifty patents is your favorite.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Well, the one I'm building right now, angelic intelligence. Angelic
intelligence is basically think of that as like a consciousness
operating system, Like how do you bring super consciousness into
the process of decision making?

Speaker 5 (47:17):
Mhm?

Speaker 2 (47:18):
And like how do you, like what is the architecture
of the digital angels, Like you know, there are obviously
twenty seven angels, and then there are like seven like
categories it belongs and like you know, it's very similar
to the seven like energy points that you have in
your body, the seven like planes of like consciousness and
so on and so forth. But there's a lot of
like like the correlation to like the world of consciousness,

(47:41):
which is like really like the best in you. It's
not like seeking the outside, it's like what is best
in you and basically unleashing that. So I have a
file for what like you know, forty patterns. This is
like beyond the one hundred and fifty that I have. But this,
this would be the most beautiful thing for me. And

(48:02):
the reason why this is very beautiful for me is
I talk to you about my father, I talk to
you about my mother. I want to talk to you
about my son. My son looks exactly like my father. Okay,
And when I held my son, I said to myself,

(48:24):
I'm going to leave a lot of angels in your life.
A lot of angels, not a million, a billion, because
that is going to be generational impact. And for me,
this is deeply personal because it is what I'm trying
to do through this journey, both personal and professional, and

(48:44):
like you know, what I'm trying to build as a
company is all tied together, and it is to leave
a better future for kids like my son. We don't
need to figure out how to go live on Mars.
We can just make mother look better.

Speaker 8 (49:01):
There you go.

Speaker 6 (49:03):
Well, it sounds like a very interesting pattern and I'll
be very curious about how it turns out.

Speaker 8 (49:09):
It sounds like it.

Speaker 6 (49:10):
Would be an amazing concept to protect. So and speaking
of intellectual property, oh shaker, before we go where can
people find you if they want to contact your company
and maybe get some information about AI and logistics.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Not in a police station. Very good. So yes, you
know they can. They can find me, they can Google me,
they can linked to me, like you know they can.
You know, I'm pretty searchable and like you know, anyone

(49:47):
who's interested remotely not even connected to entrepreneurship and it's
just looking to someone to someone to talk to. I
would be happy to pick up the call and talk
to you guys, even if it's not business related.

Speaker 7 (50:02):
Is it your full name? Should I spell your name
or would you like to spell your name?

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, it's like shaker s h e k A R
like but it's like it's not. It's like sort and
pepper shaker, but it's s h e k R is
how it's fanatically like written and nataj A n A
T S and Thomas R as in Robert A Jack
j A N. Now you could probably see because every

(50:26):
time I had to speak my name to a guy
like sitting somewhere on a customer service call, I had
to just like spell every letter well s smith E,
Edward K T A Apple R profit.

Speaker 6 (50:45):
Thank you for that, very generous offer to our audience
to reach out to you and share, share your wisdom
and engage in some interesting discussion. Speaking of intellectual property,
it's time for intellectual property news and today we're going
to be talking about intellectual property and artificial intelligence, two

(51:05):
of our favorite topics.

Speaker 7 (51:07):
And Mark Cuban has just become our best friend, so
tell us about it. So Mark Cuban has been speaking
about this and what he thinks is that AIP intellectual
property is going to be king in an AI world.
He thinks people are going to be hoarding their intellectual

(51:28):
property and buying up the best talent and locking it
up behind intellectual property.

Speaker 8 (51:34):
So there's two pieces there.

Speaker 6 (51:35):
One is the talent piece and the other piece is
the intellectual property piece. And sometimes when people talk about
intellectual property, maybe from more of a business standpoint, they're
not necessarily talking about the patents, trademarks, and copyrights, but
they're talking about the intellectual capital that the organization has. Right,
So this is the knowledge that's within the organization. And

(52:00):
if you've been following the news lately, I guess Meta
has been trying to hire away people from other AI companies.
In the article here mentioned Scale AI's CEO Alexander Wang
offering them one hundred million dollars signing bonus to jump

(52:22):
ship and just gives you a sense of the value
that people are placing on the talent and the knowledge
that these pioneers have. So I'd like to turn it
over to our panel. Noel, you've been listening patiently. I
know you're very involved in the AI space. What do

(52:42):
you what do you think about this trend? Do you
think Mark Cuban is right or do you think he's
a little off base?

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, I mean I think it's it's it's fascinating.

Speaker 13 (52:51):
You know.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
I'm in the software as a service space, and so
a lot of what we talk about is moots, So
you know, how are you protecting your business, what's your
ket differentiator, what's your value proposition? And so On one hand,
I think that piece around scale AI, you know, maybe
kind of a way to get around some of the
m and a regulation of you know, hey, we can't

(53:14):
see too much consolidation, so now we're seeing it at
the individual talent level instead of acquiring entire companies. So
like that I think is probably part of that move.
But you know, said in another way, I think there's
pieces of that that you know are very spot on.
And you know, Mark is a very savvy investor and

(53:35):
has done very well with a lot of the bets
that he's made. You know, I said, I think about
it in terms of motes. Bradfeld, who started tech Stars,
says another quote that I think about all the time
that says, in the gold rush, you don't necessarily want
the gold, you want the shovel. So thinking about like
the infrastructure of how are you owning the stickiness of

(53:57):
the infrastructure around this movement? And so that's a lot
of what I think about is not necessarily you know,
we haven't gone through processes on filing patents, but thinking
about how do you create stickiness in your in your
product that's really hard to replicate. So yes, I think,
you know there's pieces around this on you know, what's

(54:19):
your moat, what's something that somebody can't come in and
replicate right away. Part of that, I think is also
just the real application. You know, we're talking about open
AI is a very different company than a company like Aluminus.
With the Luminus we're leveraging AI to solve a very
real business problem. And so I think those that really

(54:41):
understand the industry challenges and know how to solve those
with these tools. I think that that in a way,
like your real understanding of the problem is a differentiator
where you know somebody's not going to vibe code your
way out of that. In the same way as you
just really understand the problem, you're solving another thing that

(55:02):
I oh, go ahead, Richard, I was just gonna build
on that. No, go ahead, Well, I mean I think that, yes,
we're talking about intellectual property. On the technology side, we're
talking about talent that's building solutions and you know the
mobility there. Yes, you may have some challenges of like

(55:22):
some of the things that you figured out leaking around.
But another thing that I've been thinking a lot about
and having a lot of these conversations around lately, is
that I think in this new age with AI and automation,
that trust is also a real currency that's not necessarily
reflected in that statement as in, there's going to be

(55:45):
a lot more information, There's going to be a lot
more quantity of information. But I think folks really trusting
on quality information is going to be important. So those relationships,
those referrals, I think that people are going to double
down on those things, because you're going to realize, I
can't trust a product demo with a company that's saying

(56:08):
that all of these things are ready when they're probably
not ready in the market quite yet. I want to
talk with somebody who is actually using the product to
tell me is this thing good? Do you like working
with them? I think that that level of trust is
going to be really important.

Speaker 6 (56:26):
So with that, oh, go ahead, No, I was just
going to amplify that a little bit because I do
think that, you know, AI agents can be a real challenge,
and if they get it right wrong, I'm sorry. You know,
the article we were talking about yesterday or earlier in
the program mentioned hallucinations as a feature as opposed to

(56:51):
a bug, right, And so if you're using an AI
agent to book a hotel in California and the hotel
doesn't exist, that makes the AI agent pretty useless, right,
if it hallucinates a hotel or something else. And so
I think the realness is super important there, and and
it's really to your to your point, So, Kurt, what

(57:14):
are your thoughts about all of this stuff?

Speaker 4 (57:17):
You know, I think uh Noel made some really good
points there with respect to Mote and our business plan
and how we propose to engage our markets. I think
it's important to note that, at least my observation, AI
fits really well in certain places, and I think it
doesn't fit so well in other places. And I think

(57:39):
it's still pretty new. I think there's there's definitely some reluctance,
probably from the demographic of age to engage with AI.
You know, one of our fundamental core values at MOTE
is to have, you know, people that can talk to
our clients and our custom and not put them through

(58:02):
the one eight hundred number thing and not put them
through a chat robot as their primary contact. But that's
that's I think that's unique to MOTE, and and what
what our products and services are and who our target
customers are that they're more elderly, and you know, I'm
not that young anymore. And uh, when I think about

(58:25):
not too long ago, I came to the conclusion, you know,
we just don't need satellite TV anymore. We don't watch
that much TV. But I need, I guess I need
to switch to something else and I need to cancel
what I've got. It probably took an hour to get
through all of the Rigamaro to get my satellite TV

(58:46):
provider to just quit, just just let me go, and
and and I think that in my experience, customers don't
want to do that. They don't want to fight for
what they're trying to accomplish, and they don't want to
start with engage a chat robot on the Internet. So
again my take is AI uh is has got some

(59:06):
unbelievable applications. When I when I think of an emergency
room in a small rural town, suddenly someone's in there
and they're injured, and and uh is there an applicability
for AI to help a diagnosis in a life or
death situation? I think there is. And you know it, Richard.

(59:28):
You're you're an attorney. You know, not too long ago,
when you wanted to do research, you go to the
bookcase behind it with you know, literally hundreds of books
and start combing through. I'm trying to find applicable case law.
Is there is there a better, easier way to get
to the right answer quickly?

Speaker 2 (59:44):
There?

Speaker 4 (59:45):
AI certainly would seem like it fits there, So.

Speaker 6 (59:47):
I would say only in the short term. In the
long term, I spent a lot of time looking through
those books, and I learned a lot of information that
was not necessarily related to the topic that I was
read searching, but that came back to benefit me years later.
So I guess the jury is still out, if you'l
pardon the legal one, but about whether or not you know,

(01:00:12):
it's it's as beneficial as as we think it is.
And I just wanted to go back to No. Well,
I had one question before we had to move on,
but I'm coming back to it. Would you consider hiring
talent from another organization in the same way Mark Cuban is,

(01:00:33):
you know, talking about how the AI companies are trying
to secure top talent. Would you consider that as a
strategy or do you think you're better off just sort of,
you know, building from the ground up.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Yeah, it's not. I think it's what we hire for
is very much mindset, very much behaviors. I would not
necessarily say our strategy is to go and hire somebody
from another company and to think that they're going to

(01:01:06):
bring that type of information to us, you know, I don't,
I don't. I don't agree with that strategy, but I
also don't believe that there are other companies that are
building a solution and understand the problem that we're solving
in the same way, and so that's not necessarily Yeah,
that's not necessarily the strategy. One thing I just to

(01:01:28):
bring to life because I know that you know, these
listeners probably like stories quite a bit. But it was
interesting with Kurt saying, you know, there's some places where
AI does need to exist and there's other places where
it doesn't need to exist. You know, we work with
HR leaders and when you think about the core, you know,
there's lots of different responsibilities, but the core things being

(01:01:51):
around you know, hiring people and the core things being
around paying people. And I think that I've even just
in a short amount of time, seen the very real
stories where because of AI and automation, because of those
bugs that you all brought up, people were paid the
wrong amount and you know, actually on the bonuses side

(01:02:13):
and they were overpaid. And then you think about the
risk that that puts on a business of now, how
do I go and recoup that? How do I deal
with this on a trust in communications front? I had
another case where you know, we were actually implementing a new,
really interesting HR solution and we had a referrals program

(01:02:33):
at a previous employer and there was this new candidate
CRM system, so essentially like how do you manage recruits?
And it would automate a lot of the communications, and
you know, you think, hey, that's a really easy way
to incorporate AI and automation. But you know that onboarding
experience is key to somebody having a good beginning experience

(01:02:57):
at a company. And I had a woman that I
had referred, she'd gone through the entire interview process, had
a job, had accepted an offer, and then got an
automated note that she didn't get the job. And so
this was just like such a full PAP. But just
thinking about you know, hey, it's one thing when I

(01:03:17):
go into chat and i'm you know, I'm I'm typing
in and I get a weird answer and I have
that happen just now with like a bio that I
was sending to something else. You know, we can kind
of get over those kinds of things, but these very
real administrative things that can be some of the easiest
things to automate, there are very real implications when you

(01:03:40):
hear about those things also going wrong.

Speaker 6 (01:03:44):
Yeah, okay, so shake karthin your thoughts on Mark Cuban's
comments about talent and artificial and Mark Cuban's comments about
talents and IP, well, I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Think I think I agree half of the story and
the other half I don't. Intellectual property cuts two ways,
right when you're so there is something called trade secret,
and then there's something called intellectual property. It's difficult, okay.
So trade secret is what you really want to do,

(01:04:20):
and like you don't want the rest of the world
to know that because that's your trade secret, that's the
trade you're in, okay. And intellectual property is something that
gives you exclusive right to use that for a period
of time and then it becomes public. Okay. So when
people talk about intellectual property and protecting intellectual property, well

(01:04:44):
in essence that there's no protection after a period of time.
Like what we're really talking about is trade secret that
is not really like you know, is published anywhere, So
patterns like are excluded from that kind of thought process.
So the but where, But it comes to talent, and
I agree with Noel and I agree with like Kurt
on this topic. It is not really like pay one

(01:05:08):
hundred million dollars and like you know, some of that
I don't think is even accurately depicted because some of
it is just like media, you know, getting created because
the next guy who get poached out of chat GPT,
you know, they don't want them to have an offer
they feel is not one hundred million dollars, so they

(01:05:28):
shouldn't walk away. Like it's kind of like creating a
difference mechanism. That's why it was actually planted in the
media in the first place. Okay, so there's like even
like I don't even agree with like a hundred million
packages being sent out and told out, like you know,
that needs to be verified and checked. But what I
would definitely say is look at the heart and look

(01:05:50):
for their intentionality on your team, that's more important if
you can simply buy people for money. They're only designed
to be attracted to money, So the next guy who's
going to give them more money, they're just going to
go there. So what is your vote? Your mote is

(01:06:12):
the problem you're trying to solve the mission you're on,
and do the people like that? Does the team believe
in what you're trying to do and hence they're solely committed.
I'll give you the example of my team. My CTO
used to make ten times more than what she's making,
and she has a four and a half year old kid,

(01:06:34):
and she lives in California in the Bay Area, paying
like a mortgage, but wants to do this and she
left a fang company. Why because the love for the
work outweighs the love for the money. And when you
do it right with good intentionality, obviously, wealth followers, obviously,

(01:06:56):
legacy creation followers, Obviously mission is accomplished. And that is
what I would look for in people.

Speaker 6 (01:07:04):
So, just to amplify what you just said, people here,
this is Benjamin Mann, who is the co founder of Anthropic.
He said people here are so mission oriented. He says
his team turned down those mega offers because they believe
more in the mission than the money. So you know,

(01:07:28):
after several millions of dollars, you know, how much more
do you need? And the mission maybe becomes more important, right, Yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
So I will tell you this, and this is like
the fact, and everyone knows I'm probably like relating the
obvious to you guys. When my father died, we just
cremated him. He did not take anything with him, but
what he left was goodwill, right, And so like I'm
not saying that don't chase money or will. Then all
those things. You know, we all need money to like

(01:07:59):
live a basic life and have like the security for
our kids and family and generations beyond and all that stuff.
I'm not like, I'm not asking you guys not to
pursue that, but that should not be the only pursuit
in life, right. The pursuit in life is basically like
leading a life that has purposed and intentionality, and every

(01:08:23):
human being in this world is capable of that because
God has gifted you guys with that power. Unleash that power.

Speaker 5 (01:08:33):
I agree. I mean one thing I wanted to say.

Speaker 7 (01:08:36):
In Anthropic they say they're affecting the future of humanity,
whereas people it made it just want to make money.

Speaker 5 (01:08:43):
And so that's really what those people are so driven
to do. I guess.

Speaker 7 (01:08:48):
And what does your future of humanity look like? You
could ask anybody and I get a million different answers.
But it's kind of scary.

Speaker 8 (01:08:57):
What's the future of humanity to look like Facebook?

Speaker 13 (01:09:00):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
But exactly like you know? Or it should not be
like one of those giants, like you know, they're all
like they're all mechanized to where like place that if
they even come up and say V care, people should
be really skeptical about it.

Speaker 8 (01:09:17):
Yeah, I would be.

Speaker 6 (01:09:19):
Yeah, Yeah, Well that's that's a that's a wonderful uh discussion.
And I think we really are getting to the root
of some aspects of artificial intelligence and motivations and talking
about the importance of intentions. I think those are all
things that are important and we should keep in mind.

(01:09:41):
And I would also like to add, if you have
an idea or invention that you want to protect, contact us.

Speaker 8 (01:09:46):
At Cure Heart Law.

Speaker 6 (01:09:47):
We work with entrepreneurs worldwide to help them through the
entire process of obtaining patents, trademarks, and copyrights. And you
can visit our websites learn more about patents dot com
or learn more about trademarks dot com for a free consultation,
or you can download your free Entrepreneur's Guide to patents
or trademarks. So we have to take a commercial break now.
We have Secrets of the Entrepreneurial Mind coming up soon,

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so stay tuned.

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Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Passage to Profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.

Speaker 6 (01:12:16):
We're a nationally syndicated radio show heard in thirty eight
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(01:12:36):
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Show on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and also on the iart app.

Speaker 8 (01:12:46):
So now it's time for Elizabeth Spotlight.

Speaker 7 (01:12:50):
So this is where I talk about my activities apart
from marketing for Gearheart Law, and of course I have
the podcast studio. As I had said earlier, I have
a few clients and a lot more work to do
to get more clients, but we're working on it. And
I also have a meetup group it's called Podcast and
YouTube Creators Community that I started with Stacy Sherman. Now

(01:13:11):
Sonya Satra, my coach, is helping me with that, and
I just I find today's conversation incredibly interesting in light
of what we talked about last night at the meetup.
Sonya is a motivational coach and she's just an overall
wonderful person.

Speaker 8 (01:13:25):
But she has a.

Speaker 7 (01:13:29):
Well she gave a handout out and she has kind
of this mission to help people find their why, and
it was very much what Shaker was talking about sorry
as why do you want to do anything you want
to do with your life? And so she has a
series of questions that she led people through it like
why why why? And you finally get down and she

(01:13:51):
gave example of how she did it for herself, and
you finally get down to, well, this is what I
want to do with my life, this is what I
feel my life's purposes. That's why I'm doing all this
other stuff. So I feel like AI is making us
examine our humanity much more than we ever did before.
It's really pretty interesting. We're having another meetup and it's

(01:14:12):
about AI. So we have somebody who's really into podcasting
and the AI effect, and he's going to talk about
the new chat GPT and he talks about AI.

Speaker 5 (01:14:21):
And humanity in General's names Rob Greenley.

Speaker 7 (01:14:24):
Then we're going to have Stacy Sherman, who does customer
experience and it's different than customer service, it's the customer experience,
and we're going to be talking about what people think
about content. Do they like the AI generated content better
for podcasts or do they like human podcasts be really interesting?
And then we're also going to have one of our attorneys,

(01:14:45):
David Postovski there to talk about the intellectual property concerns,
especially copyright. So copyright and AI and podcasting and creatives
is just this huge tangled up mess right now.

Speaker 5 (01:15:00):
I gonna be able to strain it out in an hour,
I'll tell you that.

Speaker 7 (01:15:02):
But that's our next one, and I'm I'm really enjoying
this meetup because we're getting really interesting people to come
and present and we're talking about interesting topics and AI.

Speaker 5 (01:15:16):
Everything Richard and I do.

Speaker 7 (01:15:18):
Now it seems like any every presentation we go to,
every show we do here, every meetup, AI comes into
it one way or another. It's here to stay. But anyway, yeah,
let's are you do you have a comment or you
want to go into the medical minute?

Speaker 6 (01:15:33):
Well, I was just going to say, Rob Greenley is
predicting that Google has to be gone by the end
of the year.

Speaker 8 (01:15:43):
It's going to be replaced by Gemini.

Speaker 7 (01:15:44):
Well, Google Search will be replaced by Gemini Search. Yeah,
and it's already starting to do that. It's already when
you type in something on Google is coming up with
a Gemini answer.

Speaker 5 (01:15:54):
So yeah, so we'll see if he's right.

Speaker 8 (01:15:58):
But the world keeps changing follows this closely. What about
the medical minute?

Speaker 7 (01:16:03):
Oh, well, this is an AI medical minute. I think
it was Kurt he It would have been a great
lead into this.

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
It still is.

Speaker 7 (01:16:09):
When he was talking about how AI can find medical
issues that it's really hard for doctors to find otherwise.
But this guy was in a motorcycle accident and he
broke his ankle, but he didn't know it at first.
He just went home, you know, one of these tough guys.
I got it home for a couple of days, and
then it was really hurting and he looked like he.

Speaker 5 (01:16:31):
Had a cut that was getting infected.

Speaker 7 (01:16:32):
So he went to the doctor and they're like, oh, man,
you know, you broke your ankle in three places. I
don't know how we lasted two days like that, but
there you go. And they cleaned up his wound and everything,
and they gave him antibiotics. I'll send him home. Goes
next day. His hand starts trembling. I'm doing it on
the YouTube video.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
You can see it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:52):
His hand starts trembling.

Speaker 7 (01:16:53):
So he goes back and they're like, well, we're not
really sure what would cause your hand to tremble, but
we have this AI system we call Kate. So we're
going to take your whole health history, like you have diabetes,
you have this, you have that. We're going to put
everything into Kate and we're going to ask Kate if
she can figure out what's going on. So it turned

(01:17:16):
out that he was getting sepsis, and sepsis is hard
to determine at first, so it's an infection that just
goes through your whole body and eventually kills you. And
it's hard to control and if you let it go,
it can be really bad. So ended up that they
did have to cut off his leg, part of his
leg because of the infection and the sepsist, but he

(01:17:40):
didn't die. And without this AI intervention, they think he
probably would have lost his life instead of just part
of his leg.

Speaker 8 (01:17:46):
Yeah. I mean, so that's really to Kurt's point.

Speaker 6 (01:17:49):
I mean, and that technology is available anywhere, right, I mean,
it's just a matter of having an Internet connection and
a computer that can handle it.

Speaker 7 (01:17:57):
So yeah, I don't think this was a big hospital anywhere.
I think it was a small hospital out in the
you know, some rural area or something.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:18:05):
So I mean it's pluses and minuses. I mean, you know,
there's a lot of benefit. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:18:11):
On the other hand, you know, what if it was hallucinating,
you know, and I guess you know, I'm pretty sure
that they would not have cut off his leg without
doing you know, further investigation and diagnosis. Right, So, once
they bought the sepsis, then they were able to prescribe
a diagnostic, But what if it came up with the
wrong diagnostic.

Speaker 5 (01:18:31):
I think they would catch it. That's why you always
have to have a human involved.

Speaker 7 (01:18:34):
But doctor's make mistakes all the time now I mean yeah,
But anyway, so with that, I would like to go
on to our next presenter. So Noel London, it's our
next presenter. You've heard her speak a little bit. She
is the founder and CEO of Aluminus, so she makes
HR systems talk to each other so you can really

(01:18:56):
figure out what's.

Speaker 5 (01:18:56):
Going on with your HR. So tell us all about it, please, the.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Luminous what we have built is the first employee data
platform that is both powered by AI and built by
a community of over three hundred HR leaders. Essentially, what
we do is we help organizations transform their data that
is scattered across many different systems. We help them to

(01:19:23):
transform that data into actionable insights on what's happening across
their employee journey. So especially as we think about AI
and automation and what that means for how we have
to move skills and employees through organizations. That's a lot
of what we do is through our software platform, we

(01:19:44):
support mid market companies to understand organizational health and what's happening,
but then also helping to plan for the future of
their workforces.

Speaker 6 (01:19:55):
I think that's great because HR is critical to the
functioning of any company, the effective functioning of any company,
and in my past experience when I worked for large companies,
I was not always impressed with the level of organization
within the HR function, and so to me, it seems
like this is a really great idea.

Speaker 8 (01:20:16):
How would the system benefit employees.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
Yeah, so when you think about it, most organizations are
spending and it really varies between industries, but employees typically
are going to be the largest expense that an organization's
going to have. So you know, in retail that may
be around fifty percent of their annual operating budget is

(01:20:41):
actually going to their people. But typically because they're operating
off of a lot of different systems to manage their employees,
that data is going to live into different places and
so they don't necessarily have a good view on what's
happening across that organization. What we tend to see is is,
you know, for example, we can just go into retail,

(01:21:02):
because I mentioned retail just now, with you know, retail
customers that we've worked with, you know, sometimes they're seeing
that employees are leaving seventy percent of them maybe leaving
every ninety days. What that ends up translating to is
for the business, they're losing over one hundred million dollars
in cost every single year to folks that are leaving.

(01:21:25):
So when you ask, you know, what does that do
for an employee, what we do is we allow an
organization to understand why people are leaving and why their
employees are leaving. So by us highlighting those things, what
that's allowing them to do is to be more proactive
on how to manage their people to listen, and that

(01:21:48):
also ends up translating to helping them to bring down
their expenses year over year. I would say, you know,
you know what that could look like, for example, is
you know, within a retail environment, you know probably eighty
percent of your employees are going to be frontline workers.
We found that the number one reason when we were

(01:22:10):
bringing the data together that folks were leaving as quickly
as that they were because they weren't getting scheduled for
enough hours. So, hey, if I'm not getting scheduled for
enough hours in the store, I'm going to go and
find another job because I've got to pay my bills.
What we also found is that there were systematic issues

(01:22:30):
on why people weren't getting more hours. So, for example,
if you are working in a retail environment where you
need to be trained to cut fabric or you need
to be able to use a meat slicer, those are
things that sometimes require trainings and certifications. So by us
being able to say, is there a high performer that's

(01:22:50):
within the stores that's not getting as many hours as
we want them to get, they're at risk for leaving,
we can go and proactively certify those individuals in new
roles and so they're able to get more hours on
the job. So that type of holistic thinking of data
that lives in different places, how do we think proactively

(01:23:11):
to approach our employees to both improve their experience so
that there are good ones aren't walking out the door,
but also to overall support the business and the ROI
of those spends. So that's I think a lot of
how we see that all come together today.

Speaker 15 (01:23:31):
So if HR data were a novel, Okay, this is
a little bit odd question, but let's go there anyway,
what would be the plot twist most leaders never see coming.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because if HR
were a novel, what I would say, is that we
become the encyclopedia as a luminous of bringing the different
pieces of information together so that you can actually make
use of what's happening. I would say, you know, every
organization is unique. But and I would also say, you know, Richard,

(01:24:05):
I know you were saying early on, you know you
weren't necessarily impressed with the HR organization where you were previously.
What I'd say is that the role of HR has
completely changed. It's also completely changed in the last five
or so years of you know, oftentimes when you look
at an HR function, you know, we would have thought pay,

(01:24:29):
we would have thought let's hire people. I think now
because we've watched that organizations have had to adapt so
much in the last five years to their workforces, work
from home, vaccine requirements, inclusion, healthcare, changing all kinds of things.
Every single time, frankly, that you open a newspaper now,

(01:24:53):
every headline is probably something that an HR leader is
thinking about, Uh oh, what does that mean for my people?
And what do I need to think about it? So
all of these things that you know, a marketer gets
to do marketing, a finance person looks at the books.
A lot of the things that are hard to measure
have been put on an HR leader's plate. So, especially

(01:25:15):
as you start thinking like huge societal changes, huge technology
changes with AI and automation, HR is oftentimes right now
being asked to play a really important role in figuring
that out.

Speaker 7 (01:25:30):
So kind of what kind of role is HR being
asked to play when it comes to people's social media
Because they see things in the news all the time.
This guy got fired because he posted on social media,
or he reposted something and got fired for it, and
then somebody else could do it.

Speaker 5 (01:25:44):
They don't get fired. How does HR handle that?

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
I would say that is probably one of very many
different things that HR has on their day to day plate. So,
you know, I would say, like to the point of that,
I think that that comes down to values and behaviors,
being very clear about what that looks like, and understanding

(01:26:07):
how you all respond as a leadership team to those
types of scenarios. What I would say is, also, you know, hey, Elizabeth,
today it may be social media is the thing that
people are thinking about. Tomorrow it's going to be something else.
And so I think that's kind of the key. When
you say, what's the story, what's the novel. It's almost

(01:26:29):
like we're reading a novel where the plot is constantly
changing and you're just trying to keep up. And so
that's kind of the key that we're seeing is, you know,
a year ago we were talking about you know, there's
always a great resignation, a great stay, a quiet quitting,
you know, coffee clock in. There's always like there's kind

(01:26:51):
of a theme doujouur for HR. But the key that
they have to be able to navigate through is how
do they have the data that's telling them the story
of what's happening over time, and how do they take
the data that typically that novel would have been looking
historically at what happened last year. From a compliance standpoint,

(01:27:15):
I've got to report out on what happened with my people.

Speaker 12 (01:27:18):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
What we need that data to do in this novel
is help them to predict the future of We don't
know what talent needs that we have in a year,
but we have to understand how we look at skill
sets and what we start hiring for so that I'm
actually prepared for the future of my organization.

Speaker 6 (01:27:37):
So how much of a company's culture is or should
be attributed to the work of the HR department versus
the management and the leadership of the company.

Speaker 8 (01:27:50):
How do those two interact.

Speaker 14 (01:27:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
HR does not own culture, and that's kind of this.
It doesn't sit in a silo organizations that think HR
owns culture. It's got to start at the top. Who
builds your culture as your CEO, your founder, your executive team,
and you've got to have alignment at that table and

(01:28:14):
at that team. I think that what HR does is
HR is a reminder when you're sitting at an ELT
table and you're making a big strategic decision, Hey let's
acquire a company, Hey let's go off open a new
office in XYZ country. You're always making those kinds of decisions.

(01:28:35):
What HR is doing is say, is making sure that
you're asking the question of how does this impact our people?
What do we need to do to hold on to
our best talent when we're making these kinds of decisions.
But I absolutely believe HR doesn't own culture. They're there
to create accountability for culture. They're there to facilitate conversations

(01:28:58):
that are you know, how is culture are being translated
through the organization. But it's got to come from the
top up down. Because everybody's watching what is that CEO doing,
How is that CEO responding? HR is there to make
sure that that's being translated throughout the organization.

Speaker 7 (01:29:15):
Well, I don't know if you have the answer to
this question, because I know you're not like in the
HR departments at these companies. But before COVID, people could
gather around and say really stupid things to each other,
and then.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
Somebody would get mad and tell HR, and then.

Speaker 8 (01:29:31):
We still say each other.

Speaker 7 (01:29:33):
When everybody went on ZOOM, it was a little harder
because you weren't really one on one with somebody at
the water cooler saying, you know, you really look like
craft to day.

Speaker 5 (01:29:41):
Did you'd go get.

Speaker 7 (01:29:42):
Trunk last night or something, you know, and really insulting
the heck out of them. It was harder to do
when people weren't physically together. Did you notice any differences
in terms of people filing like harassment suits or any
of that during COVID versus in person?

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Yeah, so, I'll be honest, you know, we're not in
the employee relations side of the house. I again think
you know, in the past, we might have thought about
HR around and HR wears so many different hats. As
we've talked about, we might have thought of, like who's
getting their paycheck, who's hiring somebody and who's getting who's
complaining about somebody and getting somebody fired, Like those may

(01:30:20):
have been kind of the buckets we would have thought
of before. You know, our focus out Aluminus is we
do a lot around organizational health and organizational designs, So
typically we're not necessarily touching employee relations claims. That's not
really our area where we focus is. We'll bring together

(01:30:43):
system of record data, so like your work days. I
know you all mentioned SAP before, So like SAP, success
Factors will bring together recruiting data, engagement data, performance data,
and pay data. So what we're essentially trying to understand
is what is somebody's ex experience when they're at the organization?
What is their employee journey? We bring that critical HR

(01:31:05):
tech stack together to help somebody understand. You know, was
Noel a high performer or a low performer and she
didn't get promoted in this amount of time? How's her
salary changing over time? Can I actually understand what is
the archetype of a high performer look like at my organization?
What is that journey? What is that career path? The

(01:31:26):
same way we would think about like marketing type analytics.
What we're doing is saying, Hey, what's the archetype of
a high performer? How do we learn what that looks
like through data that's living in different places, and then
how do we take that and communicate that of Hey, Noel,
you want to grow within this organization, this is your.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Path to do that?

Speaker 8 (01:31:48):
Shaker, Do you have any questions or comments for Noel.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
Noel is probably one of the most articulate people that
I've ever heard talk about this topic in a way
that is so common sensical because you know, people always
think h are equal to culture, but culture is a
living organism that evolves as people get added into the organization.

(01:32:16):
That is why you're always constantly morphing the culture like
you know so, and they are actually accountable for it.
And what I what I, what I believe UH is
going to be true in the future is one of
the things to really watch out for. And this happened
during the COVID times. Is when people get separated in

(01:32:41):
time and space, which what which is what COVID did,
you begin to lose the human connection which makes companies
and in the in the world of AI, where machines
are going to like begin to like make decisions on
your behalf and guide you in the process. You're going

(01:33:04):
to have a similar thing come to life, and how
do you protect yourself? So that I think is going
to be the model diallema go forward. And I think, like,
you know, one of the things I would love for
Noel to also start thinking about is how do you
retain that the cultural integrity, the community aspect of businesses,

(01:33:26):
the values that actually companies aspire for. How do you
set the temperature of what those values are because a
lot of these companies have like values on the board
and in the board rooms and like in the hallways,
but they never live them, you know, so they never
you know, we actually stand by employees, but like sorry,
like you know, it's just letting go like ten thousand

(01:33:48):
people we want to be like we want to be
environmentally conscious, but sorry, like you know, we're going to
start like making things which are not good for environment,
Like okay, this you're poison what you want to really
do stand against? And I think like that that that
the ability to not only hold people accountable in what

(01:34:13):
I was what I would call the like the physical
world now has to translate it into the digital realm,
because AI doesn't have heart, it has mind, and we
all work with heart because the mind rationalizes our decisions
rather right, So that's that I think that would be

(01:34:37):
the kind of the the unlock.

Speaker 4 (01:34:39):
For the future.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
How do you retain that? And I think, like, you know,
what she's doing is amazing because I like I've lived
all these large companies. The problem is spot on. What
she's going after is like you know, really needed uh,
you know, retaining the values of the company and all
those things would be super critical and an ingredient for I.

Speaker 8 (01:35:01):
Feel absolutely agree.

Speaker 6 (01:35:04):
So Noel, have you ever like delivered like bad news
to a client or given them data that made them
uncomfortable or an insight that that kind of disappointed them?

Speaker 8 (01:35:19):
How did you deal with that?

Speaker 6 (01:35:20):
And maybe you could give us a little a little
teaser about a situation like that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
Yeah, I mean I think it's it's part. Yeah, that's
part of what we have to do. And to Shaker's point,
I mean, for example, you know you're talking about how
do we have these values and then lay people off.
We're not saying you're never going to lay anybody off.
Like it's a tough environment it's a tough economy. You know,

(01:35:50):
companies are having to contract. You're going to have to
do these things, but the way that you do them
and the way that you execute them is super important
because it's also you know, that's your employer value proposition,
that's your reputation, that's your brand and the market where
if somebody had to you know, sometimes you have to
let people go, but you can do it in a

(01:36:11):
way that's compassionate and supports them as they're thinking about
their next role. So you know, we're not saying, you know,
everything should be fluffy, and you know, we know you've
got to run a business. You're trying to create a
high performing team. What's the best way to help you
to do that. Yes, we've had to deliver hard feedback

(01:36:34):
to our customers. Our platform is delivering that hard feedback
to our customers. Sometimes people do want to see it.
Some times people don't want to see it. But you know,
integrity and you know, what we set out to do
was to show people the data that they may have

(01:36:54):
had anecdotes for and they may have been operating on
anecdotes instead of data. And so we're going to show
what we're seeing within their system. So but I also think,
you know, in terms of delivering card news, I don't
know one HR leader on the market or in the
market that doesn't get bad news to them most days
at this point. So I also know we're working with

(01:37:18):
a very resilient bunch.

Speaker 6 (01:37:20):
Well that's that's good to hear, and I couldn't agree
more with how a company handles downsizing is very important.
Is not only just for the people who are leaving,
but the people who remain right and understanding. That says
a lot to your to the people who who stay behind.

Speaker 8 (01:37:43):
Yeah, so yeah, great. So how can people get in
touch with you, Noel and learn more about your company?

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:37:53):
So check out We're oftentimes posting what we're seeing in
the market. Best practice is on how HR leaders are
adopting AI on our LinkedIn page. Maybe you can put
a link to us in the show notes. I joke
sometimes that I need to have a spelling bee for
people that can actually spell the name of our company.

(01:38:16):
But it's gonna be I L L O L M
I n us dot com. So you can subscribe to
our newsletter if you're interested in you know, how we're
incorporating AI into HR practices. You know, we do have
a community for HR leaders. If you know you've got
a friend in HR, they probably need help, and so

(01:38:37):
check in on them, make sure they're doing okay. But
also if you want to, you know, share our community
of resources with them, because we're oftentimes bringing folks together.
Everybody's trying to figure this out right now. No one's
doing it perfectly quite yet. So the more that we
can bring people together to share those best practices and
support each other, that's best. So yeah, check out our website,

(01:39:00):
check out LinkedIn. We'd love to chat with you.

Speaker 5 (01:39:02):
Great, thank you.

Speaker 8 (01:39:03):
Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhart and now.

Speaker 7 (01:39:07):
We were on to Kurt, who has been waiting here patiently.
Kurt Moore is building a moat around your home titles,
and think of your home as a castle. Every person's
home as their castle, and there's a moat around it
so nobody can come and steal your home. So his company,
Mote Title Security, uses legal innovations to freeze out fraud

(01:39:27):
before it starts. This sounds pretty cool because I've always
had title problems anytime we've done real estate.

Speaker 5 (01:39:32):
There seems to have been some weird.

Speaker 7 (01:39:34):
Title things so tell us, Hi, Kurt, will tell us
how you operate and what you do.

Speaker 4 (01:39:40):
Sure, well, thanks again for having me. I really appreciate it.
What MOAT Title Security does and how it's designed is
to use legal documents that we've built and copyrighted to
place those in the public records to protect people from
title fraud and from squatters. We've built a what we

(01:40:01):
call a notice of title freeze, which essentially works like
a credit freeze if you're familiar with that. It essentially
would say, hey, look, my name is Kurt Moore. I
owned this property. I don't have any intent of selling
it or putting a mortgage on it, or really doing
anything to affect the title. So I'm just going to
freeze my title and I'm going to place that notice

(01:40:21):
of title freeze in the public records and let the
public know that that's my intent for my property going forward.
If I want to transact such as saw my property
or take out a new mortgage or a second mortgage,
I'm going to need to release this title freeze to
allow that to happen. And if I don't do that,
something gets recorded. Had that happened against my will, and

(01:40:43):
that is to be presumed fraudulent. So the intent of
a notice of title freeze is twofold one. It would
deter a potential attack. If you think of someone considering
attacking my personal property, they're going to research the public
records and learn what they need to know to prepare
that attack. And they're more than likely if they're good

(01:41:06):
at what they're doing. When they're researching, they're going to
bump into that notice of title freeze and they're going
to say, now, what's that. It kind of seems like
this guy's paired in defensive of what I'm exactly what
I'm trying to do. Probably they're going to move off
and go attack somebody else. So the first line of
defense is deterrent if they do make an attack. Our

(01:41:27):
document is designed to provide valuable evidence to the course
of law to say, hey, look exactly what I just said.
I had no intent to sell my property, I had
no intent to play some mortgage on my property. There's
very clear instructions in that notice of title freeze for
how those things could happen, and they didn't happen. And
I'm claiming that this recording, this conveyance is fraudulent and

(01:41:50):
it lines up with exactly what I've trying to prevent
when I froze my title.

Speaker 6 (01:41:55):
So, Kurt, let me ask you, just to interrupt you
for a second. Is title fraud an issue? I mean,
is this something that is prevalent? Can you give us
some information about that?

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Sure, that's a great question, and it is, and it's
becoming more prevalent. An interesting question. I first had my
first experience with title fraud. It tried to happen to
my elderly mother all the way back in twenty fourteen.
That's where I got this idea, back when I was
a different job and a different part of my career.

(01:42:29):
It is a thing, and it's unfortunate in this day
and age that people would do things like this, but
it is alive. It's not particularly difficult, it's not particularly complicated,
and it's not particularly expensive to execute as a fraudster.
So it is a thing. And currently you could really

(01:42:51):
do one of three things. You could do nothing and
just say I hope that doesn't happen to me, And
I think that's probably the vast majority property owners are
probably in that place. The second is, in the last
five or ten years, people have began to monitor their title.
There's many services out there that will monitor monitor your title,
keep an eye on your title, largely using AI to

(01:43:14):
see if something got recorded, and they'll give you an alert.
You know, did you just intend to take out a
mortgage on your property? And if they did, they say, yeah,
that was me or no, I don't know what that is.
And it's a reactive notice that something may have happened
that you need to be concerned about so you can
take action. Our view is proactive. I think monitoring your

(01:43:35):
titles better than doing nothing. But our view is let's
just let's just freeze it up in the public records
and let the public know that we have no intent
to change our title without first releasing that noticed the
title free So to answer your question, it is a thing,
and it's becoming more and more prevalent. There's if you
get if you have a chance to get to our
website with got a news drop down, as many many

(01:43:58):
examples of how it's happened, where it's happening.

Speaker 5 (01:44:01):
Okay, Kurt, but I'm just dying to now, So what
happened to your mother? Can you tell us that whole story?

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (01:44:07):
Yeah, so my mother my father passed away, probably twenty
years twenty five years before my mom passed away, so
she's living alone. She had some pretty difficult medical experiences.
I was in the hospital for quite some period of time,
some pretty dramatic surgeries and recoveries.

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
And.

Speaker 4 (01:44:29):
She's just getting older, she's getting more forgetful. But we
got her out of the hospital, got her into her home.
Like most like most people, they just want to go home.
And she just really really wanted to go home. So
we get her home. And one Saturday, I went to
check on her and I pulled up to her house
and there's some guy on the porch and he's arguing
with her on the porch, and I'm like, well, what

(01:44:49):
is this clown doing? So I know interceded got him
out of there, and Mom's in tears, and you know,
she's like, well, this guy says I'm selling my house
to him, and I'm no, no, no, Mom, You're not
selling your house to this guy. And this guy was
pretty offensive, big, big guy, and it was intimidating to me,
let alone to my mom. But I got him out

(01:45:11):
of there. And at the time, I was working in
the energy industry with a ton of lean into public records,
researching public records, filing documents and public records. I passed
the story along to our council, the company I was
working with. He said, oh, yeah, that's that happens. People
try to take advantage of the elder. They try to

(01:45:31):
get him to sign deeds, and sometimes they even just
prepare a deed and they just file it on their
own accord. So to quickly get through that long story,
I was working in the county where my mom's property
was located. I just had learned the clerks at the officer.
I said, if someone comes in here trying to record

(01:45:51):
a deed and I gave him my mom's name in
this property address, let me know. And sure enough, the
guy showed up a few days later and tried to
present a false deed, a fraudulent deed and record that
and they stopped it. So that's again, that's twenty fourteen,
So flash forward eleven years later. I believe the risk
and the interactions of these types of things is only growing.

(01:46:15):
It's back in those days you really had to go
to a clerk and recorder's office and present things in person.
Now you can do it online. It's just making it
easier for everyone to try to take these actions.

Speaker 9 (01:46:25):
So that happened.

Speaker 5 (01:46:27):
What happened to the guy? Did they just let him go?

Speaker 4 (01:46:29):
They didn't try to No again, big guy, and he
stopped off. He grabbed the papers and stopped off, and
so we diverted the attack. But there was really nothing
we could do to try to.

Speaker 5 (01:46:39):
You went and did it to somebody else.

Speaker 6 (01:46:40):
But don't people have title insurance? Doesn't that cover the situation?
I mean it was like we spend a fortune, yeah,
for title insurance, you know, with the mortgage and all that.

Speaker 4 (01:46:49):
That's a great question, and you have to be careful
what type of insurance you're getting when you close on
a property. And the title insurance, the policy you get
when you're closing on property is to protect the buyer
from anything from the point of sale all the way back.
So if there was something missed in the title review
leading up to the closing, maybe they missed a release

(01:47:11):
of mortgage, or they missed a lean or something, the
buyer is insured against any claims that might come forward
there and that's going to fall into the title company's
basket of cleanup. But generally speaking, it's not common to
ensure against risk going forward. So from the point of
taking possession of the property forward. That is not a

(01:47:32):
very common place to place insurance. I believe it's available,
it's just not very common. But if you're going to
rely on what I just described with my mom, her
title policy when she purchased that property would have done
nothing to cure this.

Speaker 8 (01:47:49):
Got it? So what do you do? I mean you
how do people implement this process?

Speaker 4 (01:47:56):
So what we try to make it as simple as possible.
If someone is interested in freezing their title, they can
reach out to us confirm that we're active and available
in the state where they live. It's a little bit
of a slog to get our documents considered on a
state by state basis. We're in that process of pushing

(01:48:17):
it through to get into all fifty states. Currently we're
in eight states and just kind of building and testing
our systems in our processes. But if someone's interested in
freezing their title, they reach out online through the website,
reach out to an agent to the office, and we'll
walk you through how to apply for a notice of

(01:48:38):
title freeze or for our other document which speaks to
preventing squatters. So we try to make that process pretty easy.

Speaker 7 (01:48:46):
So it's title security So do you have any success
stories where somebody said, Wow, somebody tried to steal my
house and this stopped it.

Speaker 4 (01:48:55):
We haven't yet, but I will tell you we've had
cases where people have frozen their title and then they
essentially just forget that they froze their title, and and
they'll apply for a second mortgage and it'll get stopped
when when the title company that is charged with closing

(01:49:16):
their mortgage bumps into this notice of title freeze. I'll
read it and they'll say, well, we can't close because
you know we can't. You frozen your title, so you're
gonna need to release your title freeze before we can
go forward with the closing. So so that's very reassuring
to us that it lives where it matters in the
public records it and it's serving the purpose that it's

(01:49:37):
intended to do, which is stop things from moving forward.
So but wait to answer your question, we've not had
anyone have a full on title attack against a property
that hasn't noticed the title freeze yet. Hopefully we don't.

Speaker 5 (01:49:51):
Well maybe they see the title freeze and walk on
to the next.

Speaker 4 (01:49:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's again that I spoke to
that a little earlier. The terrence is our primary when
a secondary when is easy to fight back.

Speaker 8 (01:50:03):
Got it, shak or do you have any comments or
questions for Kurt.

Speaker 2 (01:50:09):
Now know in the sense, uh So, I used to
work for Walt Disney Company, and uh so my wife
actually spent all our energy trying to rebuild our house
in Valencia, California, like you know, it's like Santa Clarita area,

(01:50:29):
and uh so then we like then I had to
move for my job, like when I started with Walmart,
and so I came to the Bay Area, and so
we did not want to sell the house, and we said,
like you know, let's rent it out, and like so
we had like one very good like renter, never a problem,
always on time, greatest, like very nice guy, and did

(01:50:52):
it like they kept the house like as it was there,
very nice man. Okay. And then he ended up buying
a house, and like you know, we brought an the
next set of like you know renters, and then COVID happens, okay,
and then people like you know can just like make
up things along the way saying if I'm not like

(01:51:13):
able to pay, you can basically just not pay before
the payment, Okay. And so my the tenant that I
had like would literally not pay the rent, but she
would keep buying cars.

Speaker 8 (01:51:31):
Hm hmm, that's nice.

Speaker 2 (01:51:33):
So this is like this is like the ridiculous thing
I've like I've never seen in my whole life. And
then basically like you know, we're trying to get her off,
like you're trying to evict her and all that stuff.
It goes on and on and on and on, and
then like luckily, like you know, one of my friends said, like,
you know, I know this amazing lawyer, Dennis Block. You know,
he's based in LA And he said, like, you know,

(01:51:55):
he's he's an eviction specialist. You should go talk to him.
And so we went and talked to him, and he
was able to like, you know, get a notice, get
her to evict. But boy, like you know, that whole
experience of like you know, it was not so much
that like someone encroached into your property when you know
that like my wife literally all the living daylights trying

(01:52:18):
to actually build the house she wanted to live in, right,
all the care she put in, all the like she
picked out every little like small detail in the house
and someone comes and squat ye really intention was to
basically skirt the system.

Speaker 8 (01:52:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:52:39):
And while you want to like basically like think that
the world is really like made of like good people,
sometimes people's intentions are not well placed and you always
have to protect yourself against those eventualities.

Speaker 7 (01:52:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:52:57):
Yeah, so did you get them out?

Speaker 2 (01:52:59):
Did you? We got them out, like and like you know,
like so so the obviously what they the mistake they did,
like you know, because we did not renew their lease
and they did not pay us. Essentially they had like
you know, they were served a notice of like you know,
thirty days like to leave the house. They just disregarded
it thinking that I could not, and then the cops

(01:53:21):
showed up and then got them evicted completely.

Speaker 4 (01:53:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:53:24):
Wow, Well you were lucky, I guess because I'm like
super lucky. The case is where they can't do anything.

Speaker 6 (01:53:30):
But you know, there's something fundamental about property houses and
people live in those right, so and it's it's it's
a it's a so there's a lot of law around
though you know those situations and sounds to me like
your title freeze is a great idea.

Speaker 2 (01:53:52):
Yeah, it's a fantastic idea, and like you know, like
and like like what are the odds that I would
be on this podcast with you all. A Kurt talks
about like title freeze, and I am the victim of title.

Speaker 8 (01:54:13):
So the angels are working.

Speaker 4 (01:54:20):
Yeah, it's it's it's interesting. I'll jump in here. You know,
freezing your title is is we believe the strongest, uh
most proactive defense to someone attempting to harm the title
to your house, steal the equity to your house, perhaps
record a deed and then try to quickly resell your
house and get a bunch of burness money to posits.

(01:54:40):
There's any number of ways I can do that. But
but the other product we offer is a notice of occupancy,
and that speaks heavily to protecting what Shaker just described.
What that document does. This says, hey, look, and my
wife and I have some rental properties, and we certainly
use this. Look, I own this property. I'm worried about,
uh this, this type of fraud. Whether I occupy this

(01:55:03):
property or not. There's just not going to be any
tenant in this property, full stop. And if anyone has
ever found to be in the property, they have no
right to be there. Because I'm saying that that's that's
not my intent for this property, and I'm making that
a public record. And then we have what we call
a little side ramp for that is, if if I
do elect to have a tenant there, I will record

(01:55:23):
a notice of property lease. It'll identify the one party
that is allowed to be in that property as long
as they, you know, live up to their property lease
in the terms and conditions of that. But other than that,
if anyone else ever shows up in the property that
they are, they're there illegally. They've they've trespassed, and they
are unauthorized occupants of my property. And and and speaking

(01:55:45):
a little bit to what Shaker just went through, if
someone shows up in your property and takes over it's
a it's vacant property or or a second home or
good targets. If they just suddenly show up, your natural
inclination is to call the authorities and say, hey, look
I own this property. Someone's in there, get them out.

Speaker 8 (01:56:04):
You know, the.

Speaker 4 (01:56:06):
Perpetrator is gonna is going to spin that when a
police officer shows up or sheriff's dead, they're there to
investigate crime, and uh, the perpetrator is going to spin
that to oh no, no, Kurt said, it would be
fine if I live here if I just do some
handyman work. And he said, we don't need a written lease.
He says, it's fine. Look, I got the keys, I
got the garage door open.

Speaker 2 (01:56:27):
Everything's good.

Speaker 4 (01:56:28):
They want to spin that quickly to a civil dispute
between the two parties so the police can't take action.
So we believe our notice of occupantcy will unravel that
story quickly because you can present that to the local
authorities and say, look, you know, I was worried about this,
it's happening. The only way that party could have been
in there is if I would have recorded or noticed
a property lease. And guess what, there's not one of

(01:56:50):
those recorded. So they're in there. I'm claiming they're in
there as squatters. Get them out a it's a new product.
We don't have an experience with someone using a notice
of occupancy and then having this happen, But we believe
it'll definitely benefit a property owner for having that in
place in the event that they do encounter a squad.

Speaker 2 (01:57:12):
Well think it really depends on the state as well.
You're actually operating this, because it could be a pro
renter and a pro owner depending on the state. That's right,
in that case, like you know, this is even more
important a protection to have.

Speaker 4 (01:57:29):
That's right, that's right, You're exactly right. Shaker spot on.
There are states that are are very pro property owner
and will lean into property owner rights, and then there
are states that are the opposite. They are more pro renners,
and they'll give renners, even renners that don't have good
evidence that they're a legitimate render, they'll give them a

(01:57:50):
lot of leeway to stay there. And the problem is
if someone does. We've got any number of articles on
our website. If someone does take over your property, Number One,
they're not going to be a good tenant. They're not
going to take care of the place. They're not going
to treat it nicely. They're going to tear it apart.
So if it takes you three to six months to
get them out, when you do get them out, your

(01:58:10):
property is probably going to be very well damaged and
you've got a lot of repairs to do to get
it fixed up. So we believe this is a pretty
cost effective way of a preventing it and be defending
it if it does come against you.

Speaker 7 (01:58:25):
Well, I agree, because there have been lots of reports
of this kind of stuff in the news. So again,
this is Kurt Moore with Mote moat Title Security and
thank you Kurt. And people can find your website by
typing in Mote Title Security.

Speaker 4 (01:58:41):
Is that right, That's right, that's right.

Speaker 7 (01:58:42):
Okay, great, you're listening to the Passage Profit Show with
Richard Elizabeth Garheart will be right back.

Speaker 13 (01:58:48):
I am a non attorney spokesperson representing a team of
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If you've been involved in a serious car, truck, or
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Call the Legal Helpline right now.

Speaker 11 (01:59:33):
Eight hundred four nine two seven oh one four eight
hundred four nine two seven oh one four eight hundred
four nine two seven oh one four. That's eight hundred
four nine two seventy fourteen.

Speaker 8 (01:59:47):
It's Passage to Profit. Now it's time for Noah's retrospective.

Speaker 7 (01:59:53):
Noah Fleischmann is our producer here at Passage to Profit,
and he just has a way of putting his best
memories in perspective.

Speaker 9 (02:00:01):
Got the keys. I've always kept them in my left
pocket ever since I was a kid. That's the one
thing that hasn't changed since then. We still use our
keys to lock up and get into our homes, at
least most of us in the cities do oh. I
know all about those computerized home systems where it's all
face and voice recognition, but if something in that computer
goes the wrong way, Heaven forbid, you could be sleeping

(02:00:22):
in the car for a couple of nights. That's if
the car will let you back in. Keys are probably
just as old as doors, and you don't have to
reboot them, and with more traditional structures controlled on the
internet nowadays, we'd better cherish it. I visited one of
those modernized offices recently, and I stepped out to use
the restroom. But I was just about done. I leaned
over and looked around and realized there was no handle

(02:00:44):
or button to you know, finish the job. So I
quietly stepped out and asked the concierge and she said, oh, no,
there's no handle or button or anything. I'll just log
in and flush it later. That was some restroom.

Speaker 15 (02:00:57):
Good thing.

Speaker 9 (02:00:57):
I remember to return the.

Speaker 1 (02:00:58):
Key with Richard and Elizabeth passage to profit.

Speaker 7 (02:01:03):
It is time for secrets of the entrepreneurial mind. So
Shaker and Aderjehan, what is a secret you can share
with our audience.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
In my case, it was my mother's code. Okay, and
let me tell you what that means. So in the
city I actually grew up in, there was this like
weird little rule where it and like you know, my
both my brothers went to Jesuit school, and like there

(02:01:34):
was there was a rule that said three kids from
the same house cannot go to the same school. Very weird,
by the way, and it was all about giving opportunity
to other kids, so that like not not the entire
family goes to the same school. It's just like a
weird thing of like the past, I guess, and my

(02:01:55):
mother had a simple reason. She said, ye, my two
elder kids go to reasonably a very good school, and
you know, and like because of the community we come in, like,
you know, we could not afford it, like and we
were really blessed to go to that school, Like they
were really blessed to go there. And she would not.
She didn't think that it was fair for her and

(02:02:18):
for me to go to a school because I was
a third kid. It did not like look fair to her.
And so instead of going and protesting and fighting and
doing everything, she would go stand right outside the head
minister's office every day or one year, one year, so

(02:02:43):
I'm I'm one year late to the school, by the way, okay,
so and she she stood there silently. She never protested,
but every day the head minister would walk out for
the mass for the school, he would see her. And
every time he walked back into the into the room,
he would see her, and she would just stand there.

(02:03:07):
And after a year she outlasted the system and the
rule went away. The moral of the story is, in
the entrepreneurial journey, you never know whether you're going to
be successful or not, but you should have the moral
courage to outlast the system to get to success.

Speaker 5 (02:03:31):
Yeah, that's story.

Speaker 2 (02:03:34):
So that's my code, that's what I live by, Like,
I never give up. I'm mister relentless.

Speaker 7 (02:03:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:03:41):
Okay, So Kurt Moore with the title security, what is
your secret?

Speaker 4 (02:03:48):
Yeah, that's a tough one to follow. That's a great
story shaker. I think my I would boil it down
to be passionate about what you're doing in life. You know,
it's it's in my opinion union people oftentimes get drawn
to making money or having fame or being well known.

(02:04:08):
I think it's much more sticky if you can do
something that you're passionate about and you believe in and
kind of augmenting on that. In my past career, a
thirty year career at times having you know, between fifty
and seventy five people reporting directly or indirectly to me,
people would come into my office and say, well, I've

(02:04:29):
got this problem. What should I do? And you know,
I would just say, well, what's the right thing to do?
You know, what's the right thing to do here? I mean,
it is a complex problem. And we'd have a partner,
we have a you know, some kind of other potential
adversary here. What would you want to have done to
you if you were on the other side of this,
And so I think there's something and it aligns with

(02:04:50):
what Shaker's representing there. Just just do the right thing.
It's never the wrong time to do the right thing
and be passionate about what you believe in and to
fight for it.

Speaker 5 (02:05:02):
I love that.

Speaker 6 (02:05:03):
Yeah, I'm going to ask Richard now, Yeah, well, I'm
going to stick with the kind of theme that's been
weaving its way through our program, which is the moral
thing and doing the right thing. I think, at the
end of the day, having more success is not worth
it if you have to compromise your own principles. And

(02:05:26):
sometimes I think we can get caught up in our
world and I certainly have, and we make mistakes or
we cheat ourselves a little bit, and at the end
of the day, it's not worth it because having a
good feeling about yourself and doing doing things that are
consistent with your values will benefit you more in the

(02:05:48):
long run than taking shortcuts or a.

Speaker 8 (02:05:51):
Short term gain. And I think that's pretty much the
lesson that I've gotten out of the show.

Speaker 7 (02:05:56):
Yeah, if you don't tell lies, you don't have to
remember what you said, right well, I'm going to say
for mine, I'm going to go down on the weeds
a little bit. So I'm going to say to anybody listening,
learn how to do the queries for the large language models.
I'm talking about Chat, GPT, I'm talking about Perplexity, I'm

(02:06:16):
talking about Google, Gemini, I'm talking about GROC and.

Speaker 5 (02:06:23):
Claude, all of them.

Speaker 7 (02:06:24):
Because the reason I'm saying that is they're teaching it
in the high schools now to the high school kids.
And if you're older and you remember when you used
to be able to teach your kids how to do
stuff and then it kind of flipped because they were
learning stuff in school that we've never been taught.

Speaker 5 (02:06:41):
That's going to be like that. So I think that
it's going to be, like I don't know, it's going
to be taking over.

Speaker 7 (02:06:47):
And I think the more you can teach yourself and
learn how to do the queries, the way that the
software will give you the right answer is going to
help you out. And if you're ever looking for a
side gig because I took your job or something, that
if you can teach yourself and how to do queries
well enough that you can teach it to other people
you can that we start a consulting gig, right, But

(02:07:11):
I really feel like it's gonna be important. Not you
don't have to embrace AI one hundred percent and love it,
but you know how how you have to know how
to use it, how to make it work for you.

Speaker 5 (02:07:24):
And I think that's my secret.

Speaker 6 (02:07:26):
Yeah, And I would just you know, kind of follow
on that. We still meet people who have never tried chat,
GPT not you were in fewer, Yeah, but you know,
it's it, and it's so if you haven't tried it,
try it.

Speaker 8 (02:07:40):
It's free and just type in a few things and
see what it's like.

Speaker 6 (02:07:45):
This is the way the world's going, and you know,
at least a little familiarity with it can't hurt. Passage
to Profit is a nationally syndicated radio show appearing in
thirty eight markets across the United States. In addition, Passage
to Profit has also been recently selected by feed Spot
Podcasters Database as a top ten entrepreneur interview podcast. Thank

(02:08:07):
you to the P two P team, our producer Noah
Fleischman and our program coordinator Alisha Morrissey, our studio assistant Risicatpusari,
and our social media Powerhouse Carolina Tabares. Look for our
podcast tomorrow anywhere you get your podcasts. Our podcast is
ranked in the top three percent globally. You can also
find us on Facebook, Instagram, x and on our YouTube channel.

(02:08:30):
And remember, while the information on this program is believed
to be correct, never take a legal step without checking
with your legal professional first. Gearheart Law is here for
your patent, trademark and copyright needs. You can find us
at gearheartlaw dot com and contact us for free consultation.

Speaker 8 (02:08:47):
Take care everybody, Thanks for listening, and we'll be back
next week.

Speaker 1 (02:08:50):
The proceeding was a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitute's neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas express