Richard Hurowitz on Non-Jews Who Saved Jews During the Holocaust

Episode Transcript

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the Holocaust. They don't get a lot of attention, and

(01:45):
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their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust. You don't
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You can help rekindle hope and light for thousands of
Israelis in need through mayor Penny. Last year, we served
over one point two five million meals to the hungry
and renovated hundreds of homes for Holocaust survivors. But the
challenges facing our community remains immense. In Israel today, two
point six million people live in poverty, struggling to afford

(02:28):
basic necessities. Among them are one point two million children
who go to bed hungry each night, feeling the painful
effects of food and security. Families displaced by the work
over one hundred thousand of them are still working to
rebuild their lives after devastating losses. Meanwhile, one hundred thousand
idf reservists risk their lives daily to defend Israel and

(02:54):
protect its people, often far from their families and homes.
Your support this Khnica can be a beacon of post
It can nourish children, provide Karen dignity to Holocaust survivors,
support soldiers with essentials, and help displace families feel secure again.
Every donation is a step towards making miracles happen. Visit

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Your tax deductible gift will make a tangible impact. Mayor
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This Chronica. Please don't forget to bring Millmont to the party.
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we patties and meat poles. Don't forget on the goat
to take along Meal MAT's delicious beefsteak and stuff cabbage
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(03:49):
Islami baloney or corn brief. The choice is yours.

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Meal marked for an amazing Chronica with amazing choices.

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This Hanukah, support Israel with a taste of the Holy Land.
Evan Zahav offers top quality wines and spirits from Israel
that are sure to delight your taste buds. Indulgent Evan
z Ahave's exquisite Goldstone Jerusalem of Orange Luqueur, a unique
blend of Galilean brandy and natural sweet and bitter orange essence.
Or savor the new Premium Evan Zahav's single vineyard Cabernet
Sauvignon h to perfection in French yoke barrels. It's Aroma

(04:26):
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the vineyards of Israel. Looking for something truly special, try
our super smooth Aroc the Israeli Rum loved by everyone,
or the evans Ahaf Brandy Vsop in a luxurious gift box.
And don't forget our award winning Merleau Tebernet and the
ever popular evan Zaha Vintage. So celebrate Hanakah with the
finest evan z Ahaf Kosher wines and spirits in the

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Speaker 10 (07:00):
And now here's your host.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Welcome back to the program. I'm Zev Brenner. Richard Harwist
joins us. He's a writer, founder and publisher of Octavian Report,
but you can read his writings in The Wall Street Journal,
The New York Times, The Jerusalem Post, the La Times.
His first book is called In the Garden of the Righteous,
The Heroes Aristolies to save Jews during the Holocaust. Welcome

(07:24):
to the program. Thank you for joining us, Thanks for
having me. It's a fascinating book. You write about non
Jews who saved Jews during the Holocaust. The Advischem has
recognized over twenty seven thousand of them. You chose ten
from different kinds of backgrounds. So first, what made you
decide that this will be your first book.

Speaker 9 (07:41):
Oh, that's a good question.

Speaker 11 (07:44):
You know, I think it's a very understudied and very
undercovered area of history and of the Holocaust history.

Speaker 9 (07:52):
And there's a bunch of reasons for that.

Speaker 11 (07:53):
But you know, in the years after the war, people
were really fascinated by by the evil and why not
just the Nazis did what they did, but why people
went along with it. And there was also a concern
by the first generation of survivers, you know, many of
whom had been in camps and had not been rescued.

(08:14):
That you know, focusing on rescue was because it was
so rare, might distort the record. So there was very
little attention paid to people who had done this. And
there's some fairness to that because there were you know,
Yadvashem has recognized twenty seven thousand individuals. This criterion there
is extraordinarily strict, so I think you can. But even

(08:36):
if you multiply by ten, this is out of five
hundred million people in Europe at the time, So there
many of these stories are very unknown, even though, for example,
one of the people in my booky Or studies to
SUSA Meandez saved as many as thirty thousand people. They
think he was the largest single rescue during the.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Holocaust, bigger than Raal Wallenberg.

Speaker 11 (08:57):
Well Wallenberg was part of a group, right, so he
they probably saved a few hundred thousand, and they're wonderful
as well, but as an individual, and certainly more than Schindler.

Speaker 9 (09:07):
But what I.

Speaker 11 (09:08):
Also found is I started writing these stories for some
of the publications you mentioned earlier, and I found such
a positive reaction to them, almost universal, you know, as
you know, the internet's a scary place, and there was
no anti Semitic comments about them, just universal, you.

Speaker 9 (09:28):
Know, would regardless of your political persuasion.

Speaker 11 (09:30):
It seems that people really find the stories very inspirational.
They want to know about them, and so I decided
to turn them into a book. And I also think that,
you know, at least anybody who's I think, all of humanity,
but certainly the Jewish community owes a debt of gratitude
to these people, you know, many of whom suffered greatly

(09:53):
actually for what they did. So part of the book,
to me was also done out of gratitude to people
who who did the right thing at the worst moment
in history, and I think there's this is there was
a quote from a rabbi who was part of the
initial push to start to recognize people, who said, it's

(10:13):
a historical injustice that people know the names.

Speaker 9 (10:15):
Of Himmler and Gerring and they don't know the.

Speaker 11 (10:17):
Names of people like Sukahara or or sus A Mendez.
And so I hope the book, hopefully will will correct
correct that.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, a little bit. Interestingly, you didn't write about Rob
Wallenberg or about Oscar Schindler, about some of the more
well known Any reason why when you're writing a book,
why you didn't put us on the well known names
as well as the unknown.

Speaker 11 (10:38):
Yeah, so I mentioned them in my introduction. I didn't
write about those two because because they are so well known,
and so I think their story is it is out there,
you know. Vallenberg Also there are diplomats are sort of
an unusual case because they make an outsize of rescuers

(11:01):
who were able to help a lot of people because
they were in a position to do so. And so
I do have a number of other diplomatic stories that
said the they were the diplomats that actually did it.
As a percentage of the diplomatic warps were also quite small.
But the main reason, and again they are in my book,

(11:21):
but the main reason they are not featured is because
their stories are already out there.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Now you have a neglected group. You have a German
circus ringmaster, Greek archbishops toward the France winners, Polish doctors, daughters,
Japanese diplomats. So you had you could have chosen for
any of twenty seven thousand plus. So how did you
pick these ten?

Speaker 9 (11:42):
Well?

Speaker 11 (11:42):
I tried to find stories. There were a couple of criteria.
One was I wanted a cross section of different types
of rescue, different geographies, different reasons people did it, different
things that people's professions, different motivations. And then I also
tried to choose ten. They're not ten rescuers because some

(12:04):
of them were group rescues. So there are ten stories,
but stories that were you know, had some sort of
drama to them or color or I mean, there were
good stories in and of themselves. So some of these
people rescue thousands of people, but they all have something
dramatic and they're all kind of different, different from each other,
and at the end of the day, they were also
just stories that I that touched me.

Speaker 9 (12:27):
But my initial.

Speaker 11 (12:27):
Proposal would have led to a book that was probably
five times the length and would have been more encyclopiatic,
and no one would have read it. So you have
to unfortunately leave some stuff on the cutting room floor.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
But that means you're doing Did that mean doing a
second book?

Speaker 9 (12:41):
We'll see.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
So, I mean one of the ones that I actually interviewed.
His son, Sugahara, with fascinating personality too. He's a little
better known than some of the others that you're write about.
Well let's let's start with him.

Speaker 11 (12:55):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, think about Sugahara. Actually everybody I've
written about, He's the one where people have come out
of the woodwork. Not only were they personally like their
families were rescued by them, but people I know, you know,
were rescued by him.

Speaker 9 (13:11):
So his you know, he saved several thousand, but you know.

Speaker 11 (13:14):
It just continues to to kind of go down through
the generation. So sugahar was a was a diplomat. He
was really more of an intelligence officer because he was
he was a Russia hand.

Speaker 9 (13:25):
He was fluent in Russia.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
I mean, he was a spy.

Speaker 11 (13:29):
Yeah, and he was sent to Lithuania as a diplomat
and a consulate in a place where there's no Japanese peoples.
So the idea is he had a lot of time
on his hands, and he was sent there out of
mission to basically see that the Japanese believed rightfully that
the Germans and the Russians would eventually be at war
with each other. And so he was there to kind

(13:50):
of monitor troop movements and report back as to what
was going on.

Speaker 9 (13:52):
And while he was there, you know, there.

Speaker 11 (13:55):
Started to there was a huge exodus from Poland of
Jews to you know, into Lithuania. And he was posted
in Coveno, and they started to line up outside of
the embassy and and he was a great humanitarian and
he was there with his wife and children, his sister
in law, and and he just couldn't take the suffering.

(14:18):
And so you know, in a lot of places in Europe,
you know, visas and papers were.

Speaker 9 (14:22):
What saved your life.

Speaker 11 (14:23):
There's actually another person in that chapter who deserves a
lot of credit, guy named Jon Schwarzandike, who was a
Dutch diplomat.

Speaker 9 (14:33):
He was he had been a diplomat.

Speaker 11 (14:34):
For several days when this happened because he was a
businessman and he was the head of Phillips, you know,
the electronics company in the in the are and the
ambassador had removed his predecessor, who had Nazi sympathies, and
asked him to basically take over his honorary consul. And
he was important because a number of people figured out

(14:55):
that Corusow and some of the Dutch islands in the
in the Atlantic you could go to without a visa technically,
and so they went to him and they asked him
to issue visas because you needed a visa.

Speaker 9 (15:09):
Where you were going to end up. Nobody ended up.

Speaker 11 (15:12):
Going there, but he over several days issued thousands of
kurus out visas and that was important because some but
not all, of the people then took them to Sugahara,
because what Sugahara could do is he issued a transit
visa and what it allowed people to do was go
to Japan for say ten days, some of them stayed,

(15:32):
but then go on from there somewhere else of the
United States or Pales or Shanghai where you also didn't
need a visa. And so for you know, people showed
up at his embassy. The government he cabled for instructions.
They did not want him to give any visas, but
he kind of disobeyed the orders and over several weeks

(15:54):
he issued just you know, thousands of visas to people.
He also probably arranged for the they were. They went
from there across Russia on the Trans Siberian Railroad, and
because of his relations with the Russians, he was able
to like sort of arrange for people to be able
to do that. And it was quite laborious what he
had to do, because a Japanese visas almost it's almost

(16:19):
like has to be done in calligraphy. So they are
these stories of him working, you know, eighteen hours. His
hand was like he couldn't even move his hand. He
would collapse at the end of the day. But at
the same time, there are many people who gave testimony
that he was very kind. He would serve people tea,
he would try to put them at ease. He said
to one gentleman, a kid actually said, people say America's civilized,

(16:43):
I'm going to show them Japan as civilized, even more civilized.
And so then eventually he was under a lot of
pressure to close the embassy because the consulate, because the
Russians had basically annexed Lithuania, and they had they wanted
to consulate shut because they wanted to say there was
no such thing as an independent country anymore. And even
when he did that, he put up a sign that

(17:04):
said I'll be at the at this hotel, and so
people followed him to the hotel and he continued to
issue visas, and then even at the train station he
issued a number of visas on the on the platform
and uh, and as the train pulled away, he threw
actually out the papers and said, you know, if you guys,
you know, if you could use the diplomatic paper, you know,

(17:25):
And then some people did do that, and so he
ended up saving you know, thousands of thousands of Jews.
He saved the entire mirror Yeshivah.

Speaker 9 (17:36):
This is the only Yeshiva to survive the war intact.

Speaker 11 (17:41):
And it was interesting because, you know, Himmler had to
really want it. One of the things they were very
focused on on on exterminating religious you know, yeshiva's in
Poland and and in some way Sugahara was instrumental in
in in like keeping Talmudik studies a lie because a
lot of these Yeshivas moved to the United States with

(18:03):
with visas that he had issued.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
So now wasn't just Murrayshue, what are the Eshivas were
the beneficiary of his diplomatic efforts.

Speaker 11 (18:11):
I don't know the names of I. I mean, they're
in my book. I can't recall off the top, but
the mirror is the one that was But they went
to sin yes, But but the entire, the entire it
was like several hundred people. And they actually also got
a visas from the Dutch, from Sparzandike.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
What are you're saying? Are the Eshivas that were there
ended up in the nights because of his work too?
What did he do that facilitated the other?

Speaker 9 (18:34):
He gave them visas?

Speaker 11 (18:35):
So there was a lot there was a you know,
there were a lot of you know, Yeshivas in the area,
and so they they and and also once uh there
was Uh one of the young students, Varafti, who became later.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
In Israel first Minister Religion the States.

Speaker 11 (18:54):
So once he found out what was going on, he
actually very quickly spread the word among a lot of
Yeshiva students like there's a there's an opportunity to get
out here. Now some of the rabbis actually uh advised
against it in some of the yeshiva's, but a lot
of thehiva ray but a lot of the students, you know,

(19:15):
realized this was this was a way out. So so
so so unusual with Sugahara. An unusual percentage of people,
not all of them, but people he rescued were very religious.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Our guests is Richard Harwooz. He's a writer. He is
a founder of publisher of Octavian Report. You can find
him in Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, New York Times,
Jerusalem Posts. But his fascinating book is called In the
Garden of the Righteous, The Heroes harrisked their lives. He
saves Jews during the Holocaust.

Speaker 10 (19:44):
This is Jako Sura from the Queen's Jewish Link. It
just wanted to remind you that Queen's Jewish Link is
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(20:07):
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Speaker 5 (20:33):
This Hanakah, you can help rekindle hope and light for
thousands of Israelis in need through mayor punting. Last year,
we served over one point two five million meals to
the Hungary and renovated hundreds of homes for holocaul survivors.
But the challenges facing our community remains amense. In Israel today,
two point six million people live in poverty, struggling to

(20:55):
afford basic necessities. Among them are one point two million
children who go to bed hungry each night, feeling the
painful effects of food and security. Families displaced by the
work over one hundred thousand of them are still working
to rebuild their lives after devastating losses. Meanwhile, one hundred
thousand idf reservists risk their lives daily to defend Israel

(21:21):
and protect its people, often far from their families and homes.
Your support this hanaga can be a beacon of hosts.
It can nourish children, provide care and dignity to Holocaust survivors,
support soldiers with essentials and help displace families feel secure again.
Every donation is a step towards making miracles happen. Visit

(21:43):
mpdonate dot org or call eight seven seven seven donate today.
Your tax deductible gift will make a tangible impact. May
Or Kanim spreading light one act of kindness at a time.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
This honicle, Please don't forget to bring Millmont to the part.
In fact, Meal Mark is the party. They have an
amazing line of party favorites including beef sliders, beef cocktail franks,
we patties and meat poles. Don't forget on the goat
to take along Meal Mad's delicious beef steak and stuffed
cabbage that microwaves in minutes. Or you can go cold Turkey,
cold Pistraham, Islami baloney or cornbrief. The choice is yours.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Meal Marked for an amazing Conica with amazing choices.

Speaker 6 (22:30):
This Knica support Israel with the taste of the Holy Land.
Evan Zahav offers top quality wines and spirits from Israel
that are sure to delight your taste buds indulgent. Evans
Ahave's exquisite gold Stone Jerusalem of Orange Liqueur a unique
blend of galilee and brandy and natural sweet and bitter
orange essence. Or savor the new premium evans Ahav's single
vineyard cabernesov melon h to perfection in French yolk barrels.

(22:53):
It's aroma of black fruits, vanilla and oak will transport
you to the vineyards of Israel. Looking for something truly special,
try our super smooth Rup, the Israeli run loved by everyone.
Where the evans Ahab Brandy Vsop in the luxurious giftbox,
and don't forget our award winning Merleau Tebernet and the
ever popular evan Zahav Vintage. So celebrate Khonaka with the
finest Evan Zahav Kosher wines and spirits in the world

(23:15):
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(23:59):
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Speaker 2 (24:02):
You're listening to talk Line with Zev Brenner, America's premier
Jewish broadcast on the air since nineteen eighty one.

Speaker 10 (24:08):
And now here's your host.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Our guest is Richard Harwititz. He's a writer. He is
a founder of publisher of Octavian Report. You can find
him in Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, New York Times,
Jerusalem Posts. But his fascinating book is called In the
Garden of the Righteous. The Heroes have risked their lives
to save Jews during the Holocausts. You know, you write
about an eclectic group of individuals who saved Jews during

(24:34):
the Holocaust. Is there any theme as to why they
went and risked their lives to save Jews? And some
of the people who rescue Jews ended up being killed
by the Nazis. Is there any thread that you've found
that between all of them is to what their motivation was?

Speaker 11 (24:50):
Yes, you know, again there was very little systematic study
done of this after the war. The way there was
for why people went along with the NZ easy have
the Millwrim experiments at Yale, the Stanford prison experiments.

Speaker 9 (25:04):
The one study that was.

Speaker 11 (25:05):
Done found that the more that the way you were
disciplined as a child really had a big impact.

Speaker 9 (25:13):
That people who were.

Speaker 11 (25:14):
Disciplined in a rational, loving way tended to be more
likely to do this. I would build on that to say,
when I've looked at many many of these stories that
they're really and I'll differentiate if you can talk separately.
There are communities as well that all came together. I
think there were different reasons for that, places like Denmark.
But but for individuals, I think there were a few things.

Speaker 9 (25:36):
One is people that were in.

Speaker 11 (25:40):
Professions that brought them in contact with a lot of
people internationally that were different from themselves. People in creative
professions tended to be more likely to be to do this,
largely probably because many rescuers were, in normal times considered
a bit eccentric and and and I think that's related

(26:01):
to the fact that that many many were They were
people who thought for themselves and had a very strong
inner compass. Many of them were believers in something bigger
than themselves. Sometimes that could be political, but often it
was religion. And if you look, you know there are Protestants, Catholics, Muslims,

(26:23):
Greek Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox in the book.

Speaker 9 (26:26):
But these are all people who.

Speaker 11 (26:27):
Also internalized the real teachings of their religion of like,
you know, I am my, you know I love thy
neighbor as thyself, you know, the parable of the good Samaritan,
as opposed to people that were interested in religion because
of the hierarchy or outward displays of piety.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
So would you say that those that were more religious
oriented would tend to save Jews more than people who weren't.

Speaker 9 (26:50):
People who were sincerely religious. Yes, I would say.

Speaker 11 (26:52):
The number one thing, and it's related to that that
made a difference though, was almost all of them had
a parent or both parents, or a role model as
a child that both taught them you know, you should
help other people. The women the Arnas Sendler, who saved
twenty five hundred Jews, she remembered her father was a doctor,
and he took care of Jews, and he said to her,

(27:15):
if someone's drowning, out to help them. So the message
that they got from their parent and also these were
often people that grew up in a loving home, which
gave them the self esteem. Two later, when the whole
world was sort of going along with something terrible, to
feel that they needed to, you know, listen to what
they felt internally was the right.

Speaker 9 (27:35):
Thing to do.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
No fascinating. Now, I wanted to focus on the Greek
Orthodox priests, and you're right about so many different people,
which you're not going to be able to cover all
of them. I was fascinated by that. So let's let's
look at that situation. Sure, and I think it was
the Archbishop right of Athens.

Speaker 11 (27:55):
Yeah, Da Mosquinos, Yes, so you may know the Greek
So the Greek Jews had.

Speaker 9 (28:03):
The worst survival rate in Europe.

Speaker 11 (28:05):
But there were really two parts of Greece, and most
of the Jews at that time were in Salonica Thessaloniki.
They were Fardic Jews and they only joined Greece, you know,
probably twenty.

Speaker 9 (28:17):
Years before the war.

Speaker 11 (28:19):
It was a city state that was majority Jewish. Jabatinsky
and Bengurian were both there. There had been you know,
it was but when there was a big swap between
the Greeks and the Ottomans of a lot of the
Greeks from who'd been living in Turkey King there's a
lot of anti Semitism and it was a disaster. The
southern Greeks who were in Athens and in the Islands

(28:41):
are a different kind of Jew, called a Romano Jew,
and they have been so different than Ashkenazi or Sephardic.
They've been in Greece since Alexander the Great. They look Greek,
they act Greek, their kids.

Speaker 9 (28:52):
Are named Greek namemes.

Speaker 11 (28:54):
They were really integrated into society and they many of
them had fought for Greek independence and they had They
just were, you know, people viewed them as their neighbors
and as Greek as anybody else.

Speaker 9 (29:04):
And that area was occupied by.

Speaker 11 (29:07):
The Italians initially, which you know, people who study this, no,
it's the Italians didn't do round ups, so if you
were in an Italian zone occupation zone, you were pretty
safe as a Jew.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Were the anti Smidtic regulations zone the Italian zone.

Speaker 11 (29:24):
There were anti Semitic regulations in Italy at some point
after nineteen thirty eight. Not everyone went along with them,
but they didn't do they didn't I mean, they didn't
turn foreign Jews, but they never rounded up Jews. And
the danger came after nineteen forty three, when the.

Speaker 9 (29:41):
Allies invaded Italy.

Speaker 11 (29:43):
It was split in two, this Romean north was the
Germans invaded and put Mussolini back in, and then they
started rounding up Jews there and in other places like
in Greece and France, where the Italians were the occupying power.
The Germans came in and that's when the real danger happened.
That's when they started to fly the slastika above the Acropolis,

(30:04):
and that's when Amasquinos, who you referred to, decided to
do something. So so he is very close to the
actually the chief rabbi, and it wasn't just him, but
all of Greek civil society lodged a formal protest, and
he put his name first. So he was the head
of the Greek Orthodox Church. He was the Archbishop of Athens,

(30:28):
and he signed this famous letter which was also signed
by the head of the actors Guild, the head of
the pharmacist guild, and and and he's the only had
a formal head of a church in Europe that protested
the Holocaust formally, and he sent out message to all
of the clergy all over to do whatever you could
do to protect the Jews in your community. And he

(30:51):
worked very closely also with the a lot of ordinary citizens,
but in particular the municipal government, so the police chief
of Athens. And what they would do is uh, Domasquinos
in the church would issue baptismal certificates, and the municipal
authorities would issue, you know, other kinds of papers with
false names.

Speaker 9 (31:09):
And they really had great peril to themselves. He hit
a lot of.

Speaker 11 (31:13):
Jews from the Nazis and and and there's a there's
a moment also where Domasquinos was summoned by Jurgen Stroup,
who is the had was the SS officer who oversaw
the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto, and and he'd summon
him in and demanded a list of all the Jews

(31:34):
and and threatened to shoot Damasquinos, and Mosquinos handed him Uh.
He said to him, if you're going to kill me,
you hang me. That because there had been a one
hundred years earlier another person that had been hanged, and
he said, that's our respect, our tradition. So he really
was very brave and spoke right back to the book.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
What did the Nazi respond him?

Speaker 11 (31:56):
When he heard that, he wasn't happy, but he didn't
know what to do. And so then they and he
kept summoning him. We want the list of the Jews,
and and and Damasquino they he personally was involved helping
the rabbi. He convinced the chief Rabbi and his family
to flee to the Partisans as an and to warn
the rest of the Jewish community.

Speaker 9 (32:15):
So they so the Jews in the.

Speaker 11 (32:17):
In the in Athens and in the islands had a
much higher survival rate, largely because of the Church. And
I also wrote about, for example, an island called Zachitos
where it was one hundred percent survival rate and one
of the main movers there was the local priest that
he wrote later he took you know, he personally took
inspiration from from Damasquino's right, like who had told you know,

(32:41):
his entire you know, like hierarchy, we need to protect
our Jewish neighbors here.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Now I'm curious, why would the Nazi go to an
archbishop to get a list of Jews, shouldn't he go
to the municipal government to get that? What why would
the archbishop have such a list?

Speaker 11 (32:57):
Well, they went to you know, it depended. They went
to different people. So in Zacios, first they went to
the local mayor. Sometimes they would summon the head. Well,
what happened with Domusquinos. Actually there were they went to
a number of people to They also went to the
head of the Jewish community and the chief rabbi, and
he immediately confided in Domasquinos because they were they were

(33:18):
close friends.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Now fascinate Our guest is Richard Harwitz. He's an author,
He's a writer. He writes for The Wall Street Journal,
Financial Times, La Times, Jerusalem Post. But this fascinating book
is called in the Garden of the Righteous the heroes
or risk their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust.

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(34:04):
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Speaker 5 (35:00):
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served over one point two five million meals to the
hungry and renovated hundreds of homes for Holocaust survivors. But
the challenges facing our community remains immense. In Israel today,
two point six million people live in poverty, struggling to

(35:21):
afford basic necessities. Among them are one point two million
children who go to bed hungry each night, feeling the
painful effects of food insecurity. Families displaced by the work.
Over one hundred thousand of them are still working to
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(35:42):
idf reservists risk their lives daily to defend Israel and
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Your support this Khnica can be a beacon of hosts
it can nourish children, provide care and dignity to Holocaust survivors,
support soldiers with essentials, and help displaced families feel secure again.

(36:05):
Every donation is a step towards making miracles happen. Visit
mpdonate dot org or call eight seven seven seven. Donate today.
Your tax deductible gift will make a tangible impact. Mayor
Kanim spreading light, one act of kindness at a time.

Speaker 7 (36:23):
Attentional curious minds, ever wonder why we read the half
Torah after the Tora each week? What's the af Torah's
origin and purpose? And why was each half Torah chosen?

Speaker 3 (36:33):
First?

Speaker 7 (36:34):
Partia dof Torah and is Parsha by former Assistant Attorney
General of New York, Richard Golden delves into this fascinating mystery.
This groundbreaking book explores the history of the half Torah,
the reasons for the compiler's choices, and the half Tora's
enduring relevance today. For thousands of years, the haf Tora
has enhanced, expanded, and illuminated the message of the weekly

(36:55):
Partia df Torah and his Parsha makes these connections easy
to understand. Each week, Golden takes you on a ten
minute journey through the half Torah, drawing on traditional and
modern commentary tool not its meaning. Whether you're a seasoned
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(37:15):
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Speaker 2 (38:14):
You're listening to talk Line with Zev Brenner, America's premier
Jewish broadcast on the year since nineteen eighty one.

Speaker 10 (38:20):
And now here's your host.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Richard Harwitz, Who's an author. He's a writer. He writes
for The wells Reetjournal, Financial Times, La Times, Jerusalem Post.
But's fascinating book is called In the Garden of the Righteous.
The heroes or risk their lives to save Jews during
the Holocaust. Twenty seven thousand plus people save their saved Jews.

(38:44):
That's what Yad Vashem has documented. More than that. But
I noticed the rescuers you had Rul Nanjas. Weren't there
some Jewish rescuers also who operated in Europe to save Jews?

Speaker 11 (38:55):
Yeah, no, there were, And I made the decision that
the book, you know, was going to be I was
not going to feature any of them. In some ways,
they deserve their own book, you know. I was again,
some of the people in my book who saved Jews.
It wasn't necessarily even that some of them didn't even
like Jews. I mean, most of them were actually not
anti Semitic, but as possible.

Speaker 9 (39:16):
But there were Jews who did it.

Speaker 11 (39:18):
Some of them are in my book as part of
you know, operations that that that that happened. There's an
amazing story that I didn't tell. I refer to of
a Jewish family in the Philippines that was instrumental in
working with the president there and the governor general to
bring several thousand Jews to the Philippines from from Germany. So, yes,

(39:39):
there were and in the in the United States, they
were particularly among the Orthodox, but there were a number
of people that that either sponsored or tried to bring
bring Jews here. You know, the record of the United
States is not great, and the record.

Speaker 9 (39:53):
Of the even the Jewish community here is complicated.

Speaker 11 (39:55):
But but there were definitely, uh, definitely rescuers and people
who who got got people out and brought them here.

Speaker 9 (40:03):
Including my mother in law was brought here that way.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
I love your reference to Bachia, the daughter of Paro
in your booth so because Paro quint tradition was was
an exterminator of Jews, but his daughter became Jewish and
was a rescuer of Moses who saved the Jewish people.
So I like the fact that you bring them in And,
as you said earlier, may be more well known than
his daughter, and Hitler and his trenchmen are more known

(40:30):
than the rescuers who saved Jews. You mentioned somebody who
or maybe individual who didn't like Jews but saved Jews.
Could you could you amplify that?

Speaker 11 (40:39):
Yeah, I mean there were I mean one example was,
so you've had people for example, there's one one the
person who triggered the rescue of the Jews of Denmark
was a member of the the government in Germany. He

(40:59):
was not an at semi, but he was a member
of the Nazi Party for sort of career reasons. But
he had many Jewish friends. But another example is in Poland.
So I talked about the sort of protagonist of my chapters,
this woman, or Rena Sendler, who rescued twenty five hundred
Jewish children.

Speaker 9 (41:18):
She became part of a.

Speaker 11 (41:19):
Larger group called Zegota, which is a was a underground
organization that was set up to save Jews, and it
was funded in part by the Allies and the Polish
government exile.

Speaker 9 (41:32):
The two founders were two women.

Speaker 11 (41:34):
One was the wife of the ambassador to the United
States before the war, who was a liberal Democrat. The
other was a very famous writer who had been written
some pretty anti Semitic things and was like kind of
a Polish nationalist, but did not believe that the Jews
should be murdered.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
He didn't like Jews, but he ended up helping save them,
is what you're saying.

Speaker 9 (41:54):
She actually not only helped save them.

Speaker 11 (41:56):
She founded an organization and spoke out against against, you know,
harming the Jews.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
But she didn't like Jews from our previous.

Speaker 9 (42:06):
Corrects, but she just did.

Speaker 11 (42:07):
There's a difference between not liking people and thinking they
should be exterminated.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Now, aren't there countries where more Jews was saved in
other countries? I believe last we had a rate of
Jews being killed in countries like Italy had a much
higher rate. Did you find that in your reaches, Is
that those that saved Jews the rests were more from
certain countries than other countries.

Speaker 11 (42:27):
Yes, well, well so so Poland was was terrible, but
has more rescuers than anyone else because it was a
so there was so much bloodshed. But you know, Italy
eighty five percent of the Jews survived. There are a
few outlying communities. Denmark has a ninety nine percent survival.

Speaker 9 (42:44):
Rate for Jews.

Speaker 11 (42:45):
They were basically all rescued by the country. Albania is
actually a country where there were more Jews at the
end than at the beginning of the war, had a
basically almost one hundred percent survival rate. Finland Bulgaria has
a mixed record because they saved all of their own Jews,
but they they turned over the Jews.

Speaker 9 (43:04):
And in wherever they occupied.

Speaker 11 (43:07):
But they were so yeah, I mean, country by country
was was different. I mean interestingly, like Germany, like there
was Poland was much worse than Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, places
like that. Denmark is a you know, the most famous
place where where that you know, there was a whole
scale rescue of the entire Jewish community that that started
with the king and went down to kind.

Speaker 9 (43:27):
Of virtually the entire cities.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
What about Ukraine.

Speaker 9 (43:29):
Ukraine was not good, I mean it was.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (43:33):
I mean, you know, they they were they collaborated terribly.
They were in Warsaw.

Speaker 11 (43:39):
Actually a lot of the people who were patrolling the
ghetto Lithuania and Ukrainian.

Speaker 9 (43:47):
So Ukraine was was was was was very very bad.
But you know, as friends of mine who were involved there.

Speaker 11 (43:53):
You know, it's a lot different conversation that there's been
a big, big change there, and obviously they have a
Jewish president at the moment.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
I'm not one hundred percent convinced, but okay, I hear
people go tumn for Russia Shana, and they're incredible stories
of anti Semitism where they take the Jewish money and
they still harbor and hate Jews. So but that's maybe
another book to be written about. In a few moments
we have left. Tell us about the German circus ring masters.

Speaker 11 (44:19):
Yeah, so Adolf Altoff and his wife Maria and actually
his brother and sister also are rescuers. That the circus
is a family business. And you know, whenever you go
to the circus, you probably hear you know, they'd say
you this act, this is the eighth generation of this
this this family, and many of them, you know, one
hundred years.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Ago were Jewish.

Speaker 11 (44:40):
So there were a lot of Jews that were in
the circuit and a lot of non Jews, but it
was a very multicultural, you know, industry, and a lot
of them intermarried. And there was a family called the
Lorch family who were Jewish and they were actually the highest.

Speaker 9 (44:56):
Paid act in the world.

Speaker 11 (44:57):
They were in New York and residence at Ringling Brothers
in Varnaman Circus, and they were world famous, and they,
along with a number of other Jewish circus families, started
to be first discriminate against and then you know, executed
by the Nazis. And one of the members of this
family was like it was a teenage acrobat and she

(45:17):
was she and our family were not able to perform anymore,
and she went to this circus, the Altov Circus. They
the families knew each other distantly, and she said to
the ring master who owned the circus eight off altof
would you hide me? And he said yes, he offered
a hider. But not only did he hider, he put
her in the circus, so she was hiding in plain sight.

(45:40):
And he ended up saving hiding as well her entire family,
which was six people, some of whom performed in the circus.

Speaker 9 (45:47):
And the circus would move.

Speaker 11 (45:48):
It was itinerant, so it would it was a traveling circus,
and at every stop the Gestapo would inspect it and
he would, you know, give them brandy and tell them
stories about how we danced with.

Speaker 9 (45:59):
Bears and in Russia and.

Speaker 11 (46:03):
And so for years there was this circus where they
you know, harbored They had you know, Jews in the circus,
and they survived the war. They remained friends afterwards. He
was actually remained a very prominent member of the circus.
He was, if you remember Glinter Gable Williams, the lion tamer.

Speaker 9 (46:22):
He trained him. He performed till he was.

Speaker 11 (46:23):
In his seventies, and and and and he talked about
later he's been honored, you know, he said, at one
point one person tried to denounce him, and he said
to the guy. The guy said, wire their Jews in
the circus, and and he fired him on the spot,
and and and so very because at any point in time,
if they had been discovered, they you know, not only
would they have deported the Jewish family, they would have

(46:47):
killed the altops as well.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
So that's why it's amazing that so many people risked
their lives to save Jews when they would have been
shot and killed had they been discovered for harp. They
really did.

Speaker 11 (46:58):
And in places like Poland, not only did they would
they kill them, they'd killed their entire family.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
What was the most interesting story that you encountered.

Speaker 11 (47:06):
Oh, I think there's so many interesting ones. I mean,
I think if I had to pick a couple, I
mean right now. Really interesting is the fact that just
Prince Harry is out there with his book, but his
great grandmother, so King Charles's grandmother, actually rescued a family
of Jews in Athens. Aristides de Susan Mendez, who saved
thirty thousand people as a Portuguese diplomat issuing visas, is fascinating.

(47:29):
Many of the people he rescued. Many famous people. To me,
one of the most interesting is Gino Bartley, because he
was the most one of the most famous athletes in Europe.
He had won the Tour de France in nineteen thirty
eight and he ended up doing two things. He hid
a family in a basement of a building he owned
and some other people elsewhere.

Speaker 9 (47:48):
And then he also.

Speaker 11 (47:51):
When the Germans were occupying, he was part of what
was called the as CSI Underground, which was run by
the church, and it was the network all over the
north to Italy, and he would take fake papers which
could save people's lives and put them in his bicycle.
And because he was able to he was so famous,
they let him train so he could bike hundreds of

(48:13):
miles a day. He's one of the greatest cyclists of
all time. And he went from Rome to Geneva to
a CC and he would hide these papers and at
any point in time, again, if he had been discovered,
he could have been shot. And sometimes there are stories
were told, you know, he would be stopped at a
checkpoint and they could say, oh my god, it's Gino
Bartley and they don't touch my bike. It's perfectly calibrated,

(48:35):
and they say, yeah, of course we want you to,
you know, do well in the racing. So so he
saved several hundred people as part of this clandestine network.
Then never told anybody other than his son, and there
were rumors, and you know, he never wanted to talk
about it, and he felt that which was common with
a lot of the rescuers that he said, good is
something you do and you don't talk about it.

Speaker 9 (48:54):
That's what it debases it.

Speaker 11 (48:55):
And he said, you know, there they give you medals
for winning bicycle races in this world, said, but there's
some metals that are pinned to your soul and those
you're rewarded for in the you know, in the next life.
So to me, it's just the fact that he was
this amazing. I mean just like it's like a Lebron
James type fame. And you know, cycling was the number

(49:16):
one sport in Italy, so he was this celebrity who
did this and never told anybody.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Richard Horwitz's author writer. His first book is called In
the Garden of the Righteous, The Heroes who risked the
largest say Jews during the Holocaust. Thank you for joining us.
We hope you'll join us again. And I'm looking for
the second in the series.

Speaker 9 (49:32):
Oh, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Is it are you thinking of working on it? Or
is that then the works?

Speaker 9 (49:37):
Yeah, I've been.

Speaker 11 (49:38):
People have asked me about that and I and I
certainly have others, many more stories, so so that that
that may happen, or I may write some of them
for some publications. But yeah, I think I think there's
there's you could I could have written five books with
the number.

Speaker 9 (49:51):
Of stories that I had.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Anyway, thank you for joining us, Thank you for.

Speaker 9 (49:54):
Having me.

Speaker 10 (50:03):
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Speaker 5 (52:30):
You can help rekindle hope and light for thousands of
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and renovated hundreds of homes for Holocaust survivors. But the
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(52:51):
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who go to bed hungry each night, feeling the painful
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one hundred thousand of them are still working to rebuild
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(53:11):
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its people, often far from their families and homes. Your support.
This Konaga can be a beacon of hosts. It can
nourish children, provide care and dignity to Holocaust survivors, support
soldiers with essentials, and help displace families feel secure again.

(53:34):
Every donation is a step towards making miracles happen. Visit
mpdonate dot org or call eight seven seven seven. Donate today.
Your tax deductible gift will make a tangible impact. Mayor
Kanam spreading light, one act of kindness at a time.

Speaker 7 (53:52):
Attentional curious minds, ever wonder why we read the haf
Torah after the tower each week? What's the Torah's origin
and per and why was each half Torah chosen first?
Parsha doft Torah and is Parsha by former Assistant Attorney
General of New York Richard Golden delves into this fascinating mystery.
This groundbreaking book explores the history of the half Torah,

(54:14):
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(54:35):
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or just starting your Jewish journey, theft Torah and his
Parsha will help you understand this ancient practice. Available now
on Amazon and at Haftorah Parsha dot com. That's h
A F T A r A H Parsha dot com,
dough missanlists and riching exploration.

Speaker 13 (54:53):
Are you interested in hosting your own radio show and
podcast or perhaps a TV program? Talk Line overk can
help you get on the air from one hour weekly
to twenty four hours a day, ideal for ethnic, foreign language, medical,
business and religious broadcasting. We also have full time radio
stations for release, as well as FMHD channels. For more information,
please call two on two seven six nine one nine

(55:14):
two five that's two on two seven sixty nine one
nine two five, or email Zev Brenner at gmail dot com.

Speaker 9 (55:20):
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Speaker 3 (55:23):
That's all the time we have have a wonderful conica.
Go to our website right now. Talklinenetwork dot com Talkline
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Anicha Sameer.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Thank you for tuning in to Talkline with Zev Brenner,
America's premier Jewish broadcast, the Pulse Speed of the Jewish Community.

Speaker 14 (55:44):
For continuous Jewish programs, Talkline network dot com. We're our
twenty four hour a day listen line at six four
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Thanks for listening to the Chalklinetwork dot com.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
The proceeding was a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.