Larry discusses Baseball's Pete Rose with Author and Sportswriter Bill Madden

Bill Madden is an American sportswriter formerly with the New York Daily News.  A member of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, he has served on the Historical Overview Committee of the Baseball Hall of Fame in 2005, 2007 and 2008, helping to select candidates for the final ballots presented to the Veterans Committee.  In 2010, Madden was the recipient of the baseball scribe's highest honor, the J.G. Taylor Spink Award.  Madden grew up in Oradell, New Jersey, and graduated from Bergen Catholic High School.  Madden was a sportswriter with United Press International for nine years before he joined the Daily News in 1978.  He covered the New York Yankees before becoming a columnist in 1989.  In 1990, he crossed picket lines while the Daily News writers were on strike.  Madden grew up in Oradell, New Jersey, and graduated from Bergen Catholic High School.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a podcast from WOR Back Now to the
WOR Saturday Morning Show with Larry Minty. Welcome Back. Pete
Rose died last year at the age of eighty three,
and until the end he was asking the commissioner to
lift the lifetime ban on him so he could be
eligible to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. That

(00:22):
happened this week for Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, and
fifteen other deceased players. Legendary sports columnist Bill Madden knew
and liked Pete Rose. He is a best selling author
and the twenty ten recipient of Baseball Hall of Fame's JG.
Taylor Spink Award. He's got a new book out, Yankees Typewriters,

(00:46):
Scandals and Cooperstown, a baseball memoir, just out last month.
How appropriate for today, Bill, I'd love to have you
back to talk about the book. I'd love to read
the book, so it sounds great, But today let's just
talk about Pete Rose, if that's okay. And what was

(01:06):
your reaction when you heard? Bill?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
I wasn't surprised because once Manford revealed that he'd have
this meeting with Pete Rose's relatives, and he was once
again considering this whole matter. I assumed that probably he
would rule to reinstate him, basically for the reasons that

(01:29):
he gave. You know, the guy is dead, and a
lifetime ban is a lifetime ban, and if you're dead,
you're no longer have a lifetime So that was his
reasoning me personally, I don't know how I've been up
back and forth on Pete Rose for thirty years. I
always liked the guy. He was a writer's delight. He'd

(01:50):
loved it. You know, you could go to his locker
and talk baseball, you know, before games and after games,
and he would go on and on, and he loved
the writers. I think it's important to understand that when
Bart Tiamatti, the commissioner, first ruled that he was going
to go on the permanent ineligible list, Giamatti never said

(02:11):
anything about the Hall of Fame. He left that open.
All he said was that Pete you need to reconfigure
your life, and if you do, then you know this
is up for appeal. Basically, what happened was in nineteen
ninety two, when nineteen ninety one, when Rose had been

(02:33):
out of the game for five years, he was now
eligible for the Hall of Fame, And it was the
Hall of Fame that decided that anybody on the permanent
ineligible list was ineligible for the Hall of Fame, effectively
taking the matter of Rose away from the Baseball Runners Association.
We were not happy about that because it was clearly

(02:54):
the Hall of Fame's opinion or the Board of Director's
opinion that they were work we would vote him in,
and we never got a chance to decide one way
or the other way. It's been all these years on
that point.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Is it your feeling that the Baseball writers would have
voted him in on the first ballot.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I don't think he would have got in on the
first ballot. I think he would have eventually gotten in,
and he was eligible because we'd be having this debate
every year, and usually when these things happen and you
debate about someone every year, eventually the people who want
him in went over the people that don't want him in.
So I think, yeah, we would have voted him in.
But the problem with Pete was he always did something

(03:39):
that made you stop and think. You know, my feeling
about Pete Rose and about the whole thing with gambling
was no question he broke Baseball's cardinal rule, and he
deserved to pay a price for that. But the difference
between Pete Rose and the steroids guys was night and day.
In my opinion, the steroids guys cheated the game and

(03:59):
what they did was, in my opinion, unforgivable. In Pete's case,
he may have broken Baseball's card in the rule, but
he never cheated the game. He always played all out
and for me, that's why I probably would have voted
for him.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
It's interesting you say that about the steroid guys because
when I was listening to this last interview with Pete Rose,
he was talking about them, and he said, look, Barry
Bonds had seven hundred and fifteen home runs before before
he was taking steroids, and he deserves to be in
for just that reason alone. But you don't think the
steroid people will ever get in, Well.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
It doesn't look like they're going to get in. And
I never bought that argument, because that was like saying
Shule's Joe was a Hall of Fame player until he
got involved in the nineteen nineteen.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
World Series race.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
That's true, It's the same thing. I mean, you know,
just because Barry Bonds was a great player once he
started doing steroids. I mean that's a deal breaker. I
don't care how great a player he was before. There's
no question he would never have hit that many home
runs if he hadn't done steroids.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
So it's interesting, and we only have about a minute left.
But it's interesting that you say he won't get in
on the first ballot. So when he comes up in
twenty twenty seven, does some of the voters feel like
because obviously he's the old time hit leader just on
talent alone, he should be in on the first ballot,
but they have to make a statement that he did
do something wrong and then vote for him later to

(05:27):
get in.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
No, I didn't mean this. I meant for the baseball
writers if we had been given a chance to vote
on him, I don't think he would have made it
in on the first ballot with us.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
I got it.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
In this case, I think he'll probably get in, and
I think Shuless Joe will probably get in it as well.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Wow, they both deserve to be in. I thought they'd
want to send a message though.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
No. Well, I don't know. It's a strange committee. It's formed,
it's got former players, a lot of whom played against,
even with Pete, are on that committee. Owners on that committee.
There's writers on that committee. It's a I think it's
eighteen people on the committee.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Bill, it's fascinating that you that everything you've said to
is fascinating. We'd love to have you back to talk
about your new book, Yankees Typewriters, Scandals and Cooperstown, A
Baseball Memoir, just out last month. Can't wait to have
you back. Bill. Thank you, Okay, thank you. Bill Madden,
national baseball columnists for the New York Daily News and
author of the new book Yankees Typewriters, Scandals and Cooperstown,

(06:30):
A Baseball Memoir. This has been a podcast from WOOR