Ari Hoffman is a reporter and assistant editor of the Sun, where he covers politics and culture. He holds a PhD from Harvard and a law degree from Stanford, and is a 2021-2022 Journalism Fellow at the Hartman Institute.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a podcast from WR.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Here's Larry Mente with more of the WR Saturday Morning Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome Back, New York. Attorney General Letitia James is thinking
about running for mayor of New York. This is fresh
off a high profile case against former President Donald Trump.
She sued Trump for overvaluing properties and one forcing Trump
to pay a half a billion dollars. Well, he may
(00:29):
get that money back, because five judges on a depellate
court in New York don't think much of Letitia James's
case and may throw it out. Associate editor a Ar
Hoffman from The New York Sun has been covering the appeal. Ari,
thanks so much for talking with us today. Attorney General
Letitia James case against Donald Trump for overvaluating his properties
(00:54):
was an appellate court. As you wrote about at the time,
that was a big win for Letitia James. James. Trump
had to pay almost five hundred million dollars. But Ari,
from what the appella judges said during the hearing last week,
it sounds like he might be getting that money back. Right.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
There's a pretty good chance. And thank you for having
me least, you know the sort of extraordinary thing about
this This judgment. This verdict was that it was Letitia
James's signature victory as Attorney General.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We know about the four criminal cases against Donald Trump,
but this was sort of the main civil one, and
it was really a doozy. As you mentioned, it was
not only the four hundred and fifty five million dollars
that Trump and his enterprises were required to disgorge after
the judge find that found that they were obtained fraudulently,
(01:49):
but it was there are various restrictions placed on the
ability of Trump and his sons and other senior officials
like Alan Weiselberg to do business in New York. And furthermore,
there was the appointment of a kind of chaperone, an
independent monitor who was going to be placed inside the
Trump organization to make sure that that the judge's orders
(02:13):
were were followed. So this was a pretty significant blow
to Trump's kind of calling card. And that's you know,
the Trump organization kind of what you know, how he
rose to fame and and and and still a huge
part of his his his brand, but also his identity.
And we saw during this civil trial it was a
(02:34):
very contentious trial. You know, Trump and the judge were
at each other. Trump and the judge's clerk emerged as
a kind of flashpoint. So, you know, James brought this case,
she stef shepherded through, She ran for this office, promising
to look into every nook and cranny of Trump's business dealings,
(02:54):
and and she did just that. But you know, as
as often happens in in cases, an appeals court can
be a different story. Uh. And the judges evinced incredible
skepticism about the size of the verdict that Judge anger
On awarded the government and and really their whole theory
(03:15):
of the case. And let me kind of just break
that down a little bit. You know, some of the
judges said, well, this is more like a commercial dispute
than than than kind of widespread and sprawling fraud. And finally,
the judges seemed to be worried the fact that, you know,
who really was harmed here. Of course, Miss James office
(03:36):
has argued that the taxpayers were harmed. That you know,
fraud like this has downstream effects, but the judges seemed
seemed skeptical of that. And and so we could be
looking at either an outright reversal or a significant pairing
down of the.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Judgment We're talking with A. R. Hoffmann, associate editor at
The New York Sun. You can read his reporting at
nysun dot com. And I kept thinking as I as
I watched the appellate judges, and I thought it was
stunning how this might affect the Brag case.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Absolutely. You know, that was kind of larry in the
back of my mind when I was saying, you know,
appeals can be a different story. You know, on the
Brag issue, you know, that case is in a little
bit of a strange kind of suspend suspended animation. Remember,
Judge Merchant has pushed off until after the election decisions
about whether immunity applies and sentencing, and so you know,
(04:31):
both of those decisions could be up for review, especially
the immunity question. And my sense is Trump is going
to try to get into federal court to say, hey,
you know, the Supreme courts willing on immunity applies to
both state and federal prosecution. It's connected to the Office
of the Presidency, and so we could see that you
(04:55):
know that verdict if overturned in kind of as we
turn into the winter, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Ari, we're running out of time, Neil. Now, I did
want to talk to you about a new poll out
showing forty percent of New Yorkers want Letitia James to
run for mayor. I think a lot of that is
based on this case, this being overturned. I don't know
how quickly that would be, but would that hurt her chances?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, absolutely, And this is a whole, you know, a whole.
Another dimension of this is, you know, I was looking
at some polling this morning and morning consul. You know,
she's the favorite choice of the majority of Democrats. So
and I'd imagine much of that is on the strength
of she's the woman who brought down the Trump organization.
There's no doubt that this is someone who has aspirations
for higher political office. You know, A reversal on appeal
(05:44):
could not come at a worse time, you know, just
as just as this sort of political uncertain political process
relating to the trajectory of the Adams administration kind of
comes into high relief.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Ari, thanks so much for your time. I could talk
to you all day. I really appreciate you being interviewed today.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Thank you. A. R. Hoffman, Associate editor of The New
York Sun. This has been a podcast from wor
This is a podcast from WR.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Here's Larry Mente with more of the WR Saturday Morning Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome Back, New York. Attorney General Letitia James is thinking
about running for mayor of New York. This is fresh
off a high profile case against former President Donald Trump.
She sued Trump for overvaluing properties and one forcing Trump
to pay a half a billion dollars. Well, he may
(00:29):
get that money back, because five judges on a depellate
court in New York don't think much of Letitia James's
case and may throw it out. Associate editor a Ar
Hoffman from The New York Sun has been covering the appeal. Ari,
thanks so much for talking with us today. Attorney General
Letitia James case against Donald Trump for overvaluating his properties
(00:54):
was an appellate court. As you wrote about at the time,
that was a big win for Letitia James. James. Trump
had to pay almost five hundred million dollars. But Ari,
from what the appella judges said during the hearing last week,
it sounds like he might be getting that money back. Right.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
There's a pretty good chance. And thank you for having
me least, you know the sort of extraordinary thing about
this This judgment. This verdict was that it was Letitia
James's signature victory as Attorney General.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We know about the four criminal cases against Donald Trump,
but this was sort of the main civil one, and
it was really a doozy. As you mentioned, it was
not only the four hundred and fifty five million dollars
that Trump and his enterprises were required to disgorge after
the judge find that found that they were obtained fraudulently,
(01:49):
but it was there are various restrictions placed on the
ability of Trump and his sons and other senior officials
like Alan Weiselberg to do business in New York. And furthermore,
there was the appointment of a kind of chaperone, an
independent monitor who was going to be placed inside the
Trump organization to make sure that that the judge's orders
(02:13):
were were followed. So this was a pretty significant blow
to Trump's kind of calling card. And that's you know,
the Trump organization kind of what you know, how he
rose to fame and and and and still a huge
part of his his his brand, but also his identity.
And we saw during this civil trial it was a
(02:34):
very contentious trial. You know, Trump and the judge were
at each other. Trump and the judge's clerk emerged as
a kind of flashpoint. So, you know, James brought this case,
she stef shepherded through, She ran for this office, promising
to look into every nook and cranny of Trump's business dealings,
(02:54):
and and she did just that. But you know, as
as often happens in in cases, an appeals court can
be a different story. Uh. And the judges evinced incredible
skepticism about the size of the verdict that Judge anger
On awarded the government and and really their whole theory
(03:15):
of the case. And let me kind of just break
that down a little bit. You know, some of the
judges said, well, this is more like a commercial dispute
than than than kind of widespread and sprawling fraud. And finally,
the judges seemed to be worried the fact that, you know,
who really was harmed here. Of course, Miss James office
(03:36):
has argued that the taxpayers were harmed. That you know,
fraud like this has downstream effects, but the judges seemed
seemed skeptical of that. And and so we could be
looking at either an outright reversal or a significant pairing
down of the.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Judgment We're talking with A. R. Hoffmann, associate editor at
The New York Sun. You can read his reporting at
nysun dot com. And I kept thinking as I as
I watched the appellate judges, and I thought it was
stunning how this might affect the Brag case.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Absolutely. You know, that was kind of larry in the
back of my mind when I was saying, you know,
appeals can be a different story. You know, on the
Brag issue, you know, that case is in a little
bit of a strange kind of suspend suspended animation. Remember,
Judge Merchant has pushed off until after the election decisions
about whether immunity applies and sentencing, and so you know,
(04:31):
both of those decisions could be up for review, especially
the immunity question. And my sense is Trump is going
to try to get into federal court to say, hey,
you know, the Supreme courts willing on immunity applies to
both state and federal prosecution. It's connected to the Office
of the Presidency, and so we could see that you
(04:55):
know that verdict if overturned in kind of as we
turn into the winter, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Ari, we're running out of time, Neil. Now, I did
want to talk to you about a new poll out
showing forty percent of New Yorkers want Letitia James to
run for mayor. I think a lot of that is
based on this case, this being overturned. I don't know
how quickly that would be, but would that hurt her chances?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, absolutely, And this is a whole, you know, a whole.
Another dimension of this is, you know, I was looking
at some polling this morning and morning consul. You know,
she's the favorite choice of the majority of Democrats. So
and I'd imagine much of that is on the strength
of she's the woman who brought down the Trump organization.
There's no doubt that this is someone who has aspirations
for higher political office. You know, A reversal on appeal
(05:44):
could not come at a worse time, you know, just
as just as this sort of political uncertain political process
relating to the trajectory of the Adams administration kind of
comes into high relief.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Ari, thanks so much for your time. I could talk
to you all day. I really appreciate you being interviewed today.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Thank you. A. R. Hoffman, Associate editor of The New
York Sun. This has been a podcast from wor
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