Dr. Benjamin Dworkin serves as the founding Director of the Rowan Institute for Public Policy and Citizenship (RIPPAC) at Rowan University in Glassboro, NJ. He began at this position in January 2018. With a focus on informing, engaging, and training Rowan students, faculty and the public, Dworkin is responsible for positioning the Institute at the nexus of applied politics and the issues of the day, further building on Rowan’s reputation at a leading research institution of higher education in New Jersey. Under Dworkin’s leadership, the Institute offers programs and guest speakers focusing on both the practice of politics and citizen participation; supports students through academic and career development, internship placement and scholarships; and connects faculty and students from across the University with public entities to facilitate public policy research. Additionally, Dworkin teaches courses in the Rowan University Department of Political Science. As one of New Jersey’s most astute and widely quoted political analysts, he serves as a non-partisan commentator on political developments for media in New Jersey and nationally. Every year since 2020, Dr. Dworkin has been named one of the most influential people in higher education in New Jersey. Previously, he was named one of the 100 most powerful unelected people in New Jersey politics (2016). Prior to launching the Institute at Rowan, Dr. Dworkin spent 10 years as Director of the Rebovich Institute for New Jersey Politics at Rider University. Dr. Dworkin earned his M.A. and Ph.D. in political science at Rutgers University. His undergraduate degree is from Princeton University.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a podcast from dou Wor. Here again is.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Larry Minty with the wr Saturday Morning Show. A brand
new poll is out showing the race for governor in
New Jersey as tightening up. For some insights onto why
that is happening, let's talk with doctor Benjamin Dwarkin, director
of the Rowan University Institute for Public Policy and Citizenship.
(00:25):
Good to talk to you again, Ben, Thanks for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh, good morning, Larry, thanks for bringing me on.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So I'm trying to figure out all this polling going
on in New Jersey, and there hasn't been a lot, right,
There's been these two major polls, and they're vastly different.
So you've got the Rutgers Eagleton poll which was done
in June and you had Mikey Cheryl ahead by twenty
(00:51):
one points. Then you have the Fairley Dickinson poll which
was just out and he's Mikey Cheryl was ahead by
eight points. Now, either Jack shitd or really caught up
thirteen points in a month with not a lot of
TV and you know, a lot of campaigning but not
a lot of news coverage, or one of these polls
(01:13):
is really wrong. Pick a poll.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We know that this is going to be an interesting race.
We know that this race in the end is going
to be close, and so we should first understand that
these poles are happening very early in the process of
the race for New Jersey governor, happening this November, and you,
me and your producer. We take a poll among the
(01:39):
three of us about how awesome is Larry Mente and
it's going to be one hundred per It depends on
who you ask. Okay, that's what I'm saying. So there
were differences in me and that's why one of the
reasons we should understand these polls are not done exactly
the same way and they're for you can get different
(02:01):
numbers depending on who you ask, how many Republicans, how
many Democrats, etc. So I wouldn't take too much stock
that people are gonna spin it anyway they want. But
we know where this is gonna end up. This is
going to be a close race. This is an open seat.
You've had two terms of a Democratic governor New Jersey.
(02:26):
New Jersey rarely really you have to go back to
the nineteen sixties to find out where they gave a
third term to any party. Usually after two terms, the
state's ready to switch. At the same time, we've got
a long tradition of voting for the party that is
opposite of whoever won the White House the year before,
and so you would think that with Trump in the
(02:47):
White House and he's got according to these polls, not
doing is not particularly popular in New Jersey these days,
you would think the voters in New Jersey, you're gonna
vote Democratic for governor to get these two competing narratives,
these themes and what we know. We're not sure how
it's going to turn out, but we know it's going
to be close in the end.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So it's interesting you said that. First of all, let
me get back to your hypothetical poll for a second.
You said that when people ask who Larry Minty is,
if you would have asked the three of us, it's
one hundred percent. So what do you think it is?
Then when you go out to the general public, are
you saying it's going to be far lower than that?
Is that what you're insinuating on this?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Absolutely no, it'd be nine. So I would have sweat it,
and that's within the margin of errors.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That's a very good answer. Now we can move on.
I was going to say thank you so much for
joining us, but now we can move on. It's really
interesting what you said about the fact that there is
this trend out there, and it's not just in New Jersey.
It's in a lot of states. If it happens in
the middle of a president's term, it usually goes to
(03:58):
the other party, unless it's heavily Democratic or heavily Republican.
And yet this is an interesting year, isn't it. Because
you're right, Donald Trump's poll numbers in general have dropped
these either some the ones that are nice to them
or in the mid forties. The ones that are not
nice do wom are down in the mid to high thirties. However,
(04:21):
the Democratic Party is polling like a twenty percent or
twenty two percent. That doesn't have an effect on.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
A race, not really people in a certainly in a
race that's going to be as focused as this, meaning
there's not one hundred different races going on. You have
the New York mayor's race, the Virginia governor's race, of
the New Jersey governors race happening this November. These are
the big races people are focused on, and so the
(04:49):
Democratic brand is really fined by the individual candidates in
each of these parties, which is why New York City
has got a very different dynamic with Mom Donnie as
their likely or the party's nominee, as opposed to say
New Jersey with Mikey Cheryl or Abigil Spanberger in Virginia.
(05:12):
So I wouldn't really take too much stock in the
party brand. These things are really going to be defined
by the individual candidates themselves, and that helps. Let me
say that that actually helps Jack Chennarelli because he doesn't
want to get tied to the negativity in New Jersey,
at least that surrounds Donald Trump. He wants to say
(05:33):
I'm my own guy, and in a lot of ways,
I think that this kind of dynamic should help him.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Although he's not hiding from Donald Trump. I've listened to
them on the campaign trail and he always says how
proud he is to have the endorsement of Donald Trump.
So that's why I'm interested in this. I guess the
big question is will he ask Donald Trump or Kenny
Deny Donald Trump to campaign for him.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
It's unclear, you know. Look, the fact is in May
Donald Trump had an approval rating in New Jersey that
was about forty seven percent, But the polls that you
were talking about, the FDU poll dropped him down to
about thirty seven percent. So we'll see where the economy
is in October. We'll see, you know, on how things
(06:20):
are doing. If these tariffs don't have any negative impact
on the economy, then you know, maybe it's good to
bring in Donald Trump. If he's up around forty seven percent,
it could certainly motivate the base, But the endorsements out there,
everyone's gonna know about it. I think, you know, Jack
(06:40):
Shouldarelly won't necessarily need Donald Trump to motivate Republicans. They're
talked of eight years of a Democratic governor. They feel
good about how they did in twenty twenty four here
in New Jersey, and I think, you know, you're not
gonna need Donald Trump to kind of energize people that
the Republicans in New Jerk. Is there gonna be plenty
(07:00):
of energized already.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, okay, Ben, So you were running the Jack Hitarelli
campaign and you get a call from the Trump people,
you get a call from the White House that Donald
Trump would like to help out. He'd like to come
in and hold a rally. How do you say no
to that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You don't. He's the leader of your party, he's the
president of the United States. You're gonna need his help,
God will and if you'll win, So you don't say no.
The man wants to come, then he comes.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So even if you think it hurts you, even if
if you think it hurts your candidate or could hurt
your candidate, you have to say yes at that time.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But like you pointed out, Larry, and you know, it
was very a two point. I mean that he's endorsed
by Donald Trump. He's not running away from the endorsement.
So what's the big deal if you get a fresh picture.
I mean, if this is what it is, you're tied
to h to Donald Trump's fortunes and political fortunes, and
(07:58):
so I mean everybody's going to know it. If there's
a rally, and because the president wants to be here,
then great, and then you have it. It's not like
we're telling anybody something new. The world is going to
know that he got that Donald Trump endorsed Jack Generally,
Doctor BENJ.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Workin, Director of the Rowan University Institute for Public Policy
and Citizenship. This has been a podcast from wor
This is a podcast from dou Wor. Here again is.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Larry Minty with the wr Saturday Morning Show. A brand
new poll is out showing the race for governor in
New Jersey as tightening up. For some insights onto why
that is happening, let's talk with doctor Benjamin Dwarkin, director
of the Rowan University Institute for Public Policy and Citizenship.
(00:25):
Good to talk to you again, Ben, Thanks for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh, good morning, Larry, thanks for bringing me on.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So I'm trying to figure out all this polling going
on in New Jersey, and there hasn't been a lot, right,
There's been these two major polls, and they're vastly different.
So you've got the Rutgers Eagleton poll which was done
in June and you had Mikey Cheryl ahead by twenty
(00:51):
one points. Then you have the Fairley Dickinson poll which
was just out and he's Mikey Cheryl was ahead by
eight points. Now, either Jack shitd or really caught up
thirteen points in a month with not a lot of
TV and you know, a lot of campaigning but not
a lot of news coverage, or one of these polls
(01:13):
is really wrong. Pick a poll.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We know that this is going to be an interesting race.
We know that this race in the end is going
to be close, and so we should first understand that
these poles are happening very early in the process of
the race for New Jersey governor, happening this November, and you,
me and your producer. We take a poll among the
(01:39):
three of us about how awesome is Larry Mente and
it's going to be one hundred per It depends on
who you ask. Okay, that's what I'm saying. So there
were differences in me and that's why one of the
reasons we should understand these polls are not done exactly
the same way and they're for you can get different
(02:01):
numbers depending on who you ask, how many Republicans, how
many Democrats, etc. So I wouldn't take too much stock
that people are gonna spin it anyway they want. But
we know where this is gonna end up. This is
going to be a close race. This is an open seat.
You've had two terms of a Democratic governor New Jersey.
(02:26):
New Jersey rarely really you have to go back to
the nineteen sixties to find out where they gave a
third term to any party. Usually after two terms, the
state's ready to switch. At the same time, we've got
a long tradition of voting for the party that is
opposite of whoever won the White House the year before,
and so you would think that with Trump in the
(02:47):
White House and he's got according to these polls, not
doing is not particularly popular in New Jersey these days,
you would think the voters in New Jersey, you're gonna
vote Democratic for governor to get these two competing narratives,
these themes and what we know. We're not sure how
it's going to turn out, but we know it's going
to be close in the end.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So it's interesting you said that. First of all, let
me get back to your hypothetical poll for a second.
You said that when people ask who Larry Minty is,
if you would have asked the three of us, it's
one hundred percent. So what do you think it is?
Then when you go out to the general public, are
you saying it's going to be far lower than that?
Is that what you're insinuating on this?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Absolutely no, it'd be nine. So I would have sweat it,
and that's within the margin of errors.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That's a very good answer. Now we can move on.
I was going to say thank you so much for
joining us, but now we can move on. It's really
interesting what you said about the fact that there is
this trend out there, and it's not just in New Jersey.
It's in a lot of states. If it happens in
the middle of a president's term, it usually goes to
(03:58):
the other party, unless it's heavily Democratic or heavily Republican.
And yet this is an interesting year, isn't it. Because
you're right, Donald Trump's poll numbers in general have dropped
these either some the ones that are nice to them
or in the mid forties. The ones that are not
nice do wom are down in the mid to high thirties. However,
(04:21):
the Democratic Party is polling like a twenty percent or
twenty two percent. That doesn't have an effect on.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
A race, not really people in a certainly in a
race that's going to be as focused as this, meaning
there's not one hundred different races going on. You have
the New York mayor's race, the Virginia governor's race, of
the New Jersey governors race happening this November. These are
the big races people are focused on, and so the
(04:49):
Democratic brand is really fined by the individual candidates in
each of these parties, which is why New York City
has got a very different dynamic with Mom Donnie as
their likely or the party's nominee, as opposed to say
New Jersey with Mikey Cheryl or Abigil Spanberger in Virginia.
(05:12):
So I wouldn't really take too much stock in the
party brand. These things are really going to be defined
by the individual candidates themselves, and that helps. Let me
say that that actually helps Jack Chennarelli because he doesn't
want to get tied to the negativity in New Jersey,
at least that surrounds Donald Trump. He wants to say
(05:33):
I'm my own guy, and in a lot of ways,
I think that this kind of dynamic should help him.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Although he's not hiding from Donald Trump. I've listened to
them on the campaign trail and he always says how
proud he is to have the endorsement of Donald Trump.
So that's why I'm interested in this. I guess the
big question is will he ask Donald Trump or Kenny
Deny Donald Trump to campaign for him.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
It's unclear, you know. Look, the fact is in May
Donald Trump had an approval rating in New Jersey that
was about forty seven percent, But the polls that you
were talking about, the FDU poll dropped him down to
about thirty seven percent. So we'll see where the economy
is in October. We'll see, you know, on how things
(06:20):
are doing. If these tariffs don't have any negative impact
on the economy, then you know, maybe it's good to
bring in Donald Trump. If he's up around forty seven percent,
it could certainly motivate the base, But the endorsements out there,
everyone's gonna know about it. I think, you know, Jack
(06:40):
Shouldarelly won't necessarily need Donald Trump to motivate Republicans. They're
talked of eight years of a Democratic governor. They feel
good about how they did in twenty twenty four here
in New Jersey, and I think, you know, you're not
gonna need Donald Trump to kind of energize people that
the Republicans in New Jerk. Is there gonna be plenty
(07:00):
of energized already.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, okay, Ben, So you were running the Jack Hitarelli
campaign and you get a call from the Trump people,
you get a call from the White House that Donald
Trump would like to help out. He'd like to come
in and hold a rally. How do you say no
to that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You don't. He's the leader of your party, he's the
president of the United States. You're gonna need his help,
God will and if you'll win, So you don't say no.
The man wants to come, then he comes.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So even if you think it hurts you, even if
if you think it hurts your candidate or could hurt
your candidate, you have to say yes at that time.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But like you pointed out, Larry, and you know, it
was very a two point. I mean that he's endorsed
by Donald Trump. He's not running away from the endorsement.
So what's the big deal if you get a fresh picture.
I mean, if this is what it is, you're tied
to h to Donald Trump's fortunes and political fortunes, and
(07:58):
so I mean everybody's going to know it. If there's
a rally, and because the president wants to be here,
then great, and then you have it. It's not like
we're telling anybody something new. The world is going to
know that he got that Donald Trump endorsed Jack Generally,
Doctor BENJ.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Workin, Director of the Rowan University Institute for Public Policy
and Citizenship. This has been a podcast from wor
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