05-30-24 Ryan Michael with Broncos Country Tonight

Episode Transcript

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Run right out to the kaa commonsparrel hotline to bring on our good buddy,
Ryan Michael at the Ryan Michael onthe Twitter Machine. He's a contributing
rider and analyst a the Pro FootballHall of Fame, our unofficial statistician here
and now offensive at defensive analytics withthe Barcelona Dragons in the European Football League.
Right, how you doing the sceningdoing well? Ben Nick? How

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are you guys doing pretty well?Got to jump right into it. I
know we were talking a little bitabout the face of the franchise stuff in
the last segment and not and wehad one of the Texters who did not
want Bo Nicks to be the immediateface of the franchise. What the you
know, what the attitude, whatthe belly the offensive lineman? Why do
you agree with that? Well,I think in an ideal situation, you

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want to have a well rounded footballteam. So by saying that I don't
want him to be the face ofthe franchise, isn't meant to say that
I don't want him to succeed aquarterback. We're all banking on that,
but the reality is that the mostsuccessful quarterbacks in our league are supported by
strong overall teams, and I thinklast year then was a perfect example of
that. If you think of theHouston Texans, you think CJ. Stroud,

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You think of the Packers, youthink Jordan Love, ravens Lamar Jackson,
Bill's Josh Allen and certainly chiefs PatrickMahones. Would you be surprised to
know that all of the respective defensesthat supported those quarterbacks ranked higher in points
per game prevented than their quarterbacks rankedoffensively in points per game sport? That

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does surprise me. I did notknow that well. With that being said,
obviously, the Broncos have a youngquarterback and Bo Nicks, and we
haven't had an opportunity to really seehim in live game action, but there
are there's a lot of enthusiasm thathe brings to this organizations. So what
you just talked about, could thatbe the perfect recipe for bow Nicks to

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have success, To be a quarterbackthat has I guess moderate returns but have
a great defense to help. Yeah, I guess move him forward. That's
exactly what you would hope for,right, I mean, if you look
at the trajectory of what Drew Breesdid in New Orleans, and I have
more than once referred to Bo Nicksas Drew Brees light and I mean that
with great affection and respect. Breesput up some MVP caliber seasons, but

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when he was paired with some awfuldefenses, they finished seven to nine,
didn't really go anywhere, And towardsthe end of his career you finally started
to see some stability, not necessarilygreat defense, but sometimes borderline top ten
defense. And wouldn't you know theSaints were competing for Super Bowls every single
year during his final four seasons.So that's the recipe for success. It's

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the success that you had Nick withJake Plumber during that two thousand and three
to two thousand and five runs.So I'd very much like to see the
Broncos get at it this year.We'll get into Jake Plumber stuff here in
just a second. But you know, we talked about young quarterback and the
success and building them up, butexpecting a young quarterback to be the savior
of franchise without supporting him with thetools necessary to succeed. How dangerous is

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that? And can you think ofany recent examples of or maybe set up
to fail? Absolutely? I meanthere's been a number of quarterbacks taken at
the top of the draft. Oneof the greatest mysteries is how good could
Tim Couch have been if he weredrafted to a stable organization. How good
could be Carr had been. JoshRosen was somebody I was very, very
high on during his time at UCLA, and he ended up entering two of

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the worst situations imaginable. So whenyou think about young quarterbacks who showing success
early, whether it's Joe Flacco,RG three, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff.
Eventually when the Rams figured it out, Carson Wentz, when the Eagles
figured it out, Josh Allen struggled, and then the team rose to the
occasion and the Bills became Super Bowlcontenders every year all the way down.
Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow. PatrickMahomes has had the fortune of being supported

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by Trement to support every year ofhis career. So I'm not trying to
take anything away from any of thosequarterbacks who have all played very well,
very early into their careers. Buthe'd much rather be Patrick Mahomes than Josh
Rosen. Well, yeah, You'veabsolutely right, because you know, Josh
Rosen was at one point perceived tobe a better NFL prospect than Lamar Jackson,

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and that makes me thinking about somethingdifferent because when we look at legacy
quarterbacks here for the Denver Broncos,typically there are two quarterbacks that come up,
Peyton Manning and John Elway. Andfor me, that's that upsets me
because there was Jake Plumber area whenmost people kind of forget that. So

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what do you think that Jake Plumber'slegacy should be and how we should be
remembered by a Broncos country. Ithink if we reflect back to his running
Denver specifically, you first have toreflect upon what he went through in Arizona.
He was a guy who was takenforty second overall second quarterback in the
nineteen ninety seven NFL Draft, buthe wasn't surrounded by strong team support in

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Arizona. So there were some statisticalhighlights, hearing sixth sen yards for attempt
as rookie fourth and passing yards issophomore season with three thousand, seven hundred
and thirty seven yards. To adjustthat for a time that would come later,
that would have equaled hundred and twentyseven yards and twenty twelve Tom Brady
finished fourth. So he put upsome decent numbers in Arizona, but the

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support was never consistent. Got aplayoff win in ninety eight into the Dallas
Cowboys and then lost to the ninetyeight Bikings. You can knock anybody for
losing to them, and you fastforward right and you hone in. On
his final year in Arizona two thousandand two, he finished thirtieth, passer
rating fifty five point seven, thirtysecond and adjusted nighty yards per attenth.
He comes to Denver, he's pairedwith Mike Shanahan, a strong running game

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you and the rest of that strongdefense, and immediately a fifth in passer
rating ninety one point two, fifthin adjustment net yards per at tenth and
if you hone him specifically on thetwo thousand and three to two thousand and
five run. I put some numberson Twitter last night comparing Jake Plummer to
two mystery quarterbacks, and what you'llsee, as far as the efficiency is,
the numbers were pretty comparable. JakePlummer actually had the highest adjusted net

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yards per a temph rate. Thequarterback B and quarterback CEE were Tom Brady
and Drew Brees. So during thatwindow his time in Denver. How well
did he play? He played ata Brady sh level. And to be
honest with you, Nick, Idon't see anything close to the recognition for
just the reality of how well heplayed during during those years, you had

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three consecutive double digit win seasons,three consecutive top ten offensive scoring seasons.
So when I think about his legacyin Ganver, his star sure shine brightly.
It wasn't a long run, buthe burned bright when he was there,
when he was good, and Ithink that some of his best years
in Denver were quite comparable to someof John always best years. Plumber joined

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the Broncos in three, went nineto two in his first season under Mike
Shanahan. It had been a strugglein Arizona Pivots and we see the success
in Denver. What was the differentAnd aside from organizational, I mean,
it was everything from organization to coaching, to scheme to roster support. That's
why I always say that the twothousand and three to two thousand and five

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Broncos it's one of my favorite erasin pro football because you had stability on
the offensive line. As you're saying, we'd like to build that for Bonix.
You had a strong running game everysingle year, you had a top
ten defense, Nick Ferguson, ChampBelly and the rest of the crew.
That is the way ideally you wantto build a winner. That's what we
did around Jake Bummer, and creditto him because at the quarterback position,

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the sports marquee position, he deliveredyear after year after year, so much
so that if you look at hiswinning percentage, then in Denver he had
thirty nine and fifteen. That's seventytwo point two percent winning percentage overall just
for his time there in Denver.That's a higher winning percentage than Montana had
in San Francisco than Peyton Manning hadin Indianapolis, Kerry Bradshaw and Pittsburgh,

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Farvin, Green Bay or Troy ManyDallas. So it was a short run,
but can we give a little bitof love to the reality of what
he accomplished. I wish that individualswould definitely give run to it. But
I think the reason why some don't, and once again I don't agree with
it, is because on the teamsthat we were on, we didn't bring

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a Super Bowl title to the city. But do you think that that is
something that needs to take place forany player, whether we're talking about Broncos
Ring of Fame or we're talking aboutHall of Fame, that needs to take
place before the guy's given his flowers. It depends on who he asks.
I mean, that's certainly the teamball every year. But if you were

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to ask me, that's what youguys accomplished in two thousand and five,
specifically handing Belichick and Brady their firstever postseason loss. I'm sure you and
the rest of the guys in thelocker room would have traded that moment for
a Super Bowl ring. Anybody would, but I do think it's worth noting
historically speaking, you know, toDan Marina, who never won a Super

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Bowl either, certainly first ballot Hallof Famer, arguably the best that ever
played in the position. He's alsothe only person to ever beat the nineteen
eighty five Chicago Bears, And ifyou ask Dan would rather have that win
against the Bears in eighty five orthe Ring, I'm sure you would take
the Ring. Five. Reality is, he's the only one to ever defeat
the nineteen eighty five Bears in thesame way that Jake Plumber and the rest

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of you guys not off Brady Bellichickingand Patriots not significant to me, and
I wouldn't be discissive of just howsignificant that is. Ty with Ryan Michael
at the Ryan Michael on Twitter.What should take Plumber's legacy in Denver b
I've often listed him as the thirdbest quarterback in franchise history, behind the
course John Lay and Peyton Manning,but maybe not the third most celebrated,

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as Tim Tebow often gets it forthat kind of magical run the season before
Peyton Manning got here, even thoughyou know, my personal opinion of him
as a quarterback was probably the oppositeof what the results indicated. What should
Jake Plummer's legacy? B unquestionably thethird greatest quarterback in Broncos franchise history,
and if it wasn't for the factthat he had two first ballot Hall of

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Families taking those two spots above him, he'd be the greatest quarterback in franchise
history. And with all due respectto Tim Tebow, the offense finished twenty
ninth in that yards per attempt duringthat run, and so while it was
an exciting, thrilling run and noone's going to turn down a playoff win
over Pittsburgh. If we're talking onfield performance, I'd put Craig Morton while

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I had of Ebo. I didn'tput Jake Cutler ahead of Tintebo, but
unquestionably Jake Plumber is solidified as thenumber three guy, and I think that
that's pretty remarkable given their rich historyof quarterback playing. Dender all right,
you talked about three quarterbacks Lway,Manning and Plumber looking at bow Knicks just
kind of spitballing here, just tryingto look at your magic crystal ball there.

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Where do you think that bow Nicksby the end of his career,
what does he fall? Does hefall? Or Jake Plumber does he fall?
More of Peyton Manning. I mean, no one's ever going to be
Peyton Manning. And I don't carewho it is who's coming out of college
or drafted number one overall, whetherit's Caleb Williams, whether it's Arch Manning
down the line, no one shouldbe put in that class of expectation.

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I think those expectations have really helpedruin the perception of success in the NFL
for number one overall picks or thisfirst round picks in general. I would
say that if bow Nick is ableto produce anything comparable to what Jake Plumber
did in Denver, that would bea remarkable achievement. So if that's a
goal, I think that's a goalthat's worth striving for, and I wouldn't
be dismissing about it at the endof the day. It was interesting that

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the connection here because it was aTampa at the time, and you know,
John Gruden came out here to begJake Plumber to come out of retirement.
We thought it was going to happen, and of course it ended up
not happening. He goes on toplay handball and be phenomenal with that and
then go on to the other thingsthat he's going on to in life.
But what could Jake Plumber have beendo you think with John Gruden? You

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know, and it's hard to say. John Gruden certainly has a tremendous history
of coaching quarterbacks right all the wayfrom Green Bay through Oakland and through Tampa
Bay. So I certainly think itwould have been potential for Jake to continue
to play at the Pro Bowl levelthat he established for himself in Denver.
But it seems to me that youknow, it's a player's personal decision when

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it's time to hang them up.You know, a lot of people ask
what would have happened if the Marinojoined the Minnesota Vikings, you know,
instead of retiring as a Dolphin.You know, I'm happy that Jake ended
his career with the Denver Broncos.And I think there's just something about the
culture up here in Denver. There'sa reason why Peyton Manning still lives there.
There's the reason why Peyton Manning retiredas Broncos. So it's not a
bad way to go out. Onething that I've always found very interesting,

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and you just hit on it,just ever so subtly, is that we
always talk about quarterbacks. We justlift those guys up on a pedestal.
Meanwhile, I'd say time when youtalk about quarterbacks efficiency, we talk about
the running backs, We talk aboutthe wide receivers contributing to that. But
why do you think, with allthat being said, everything still shifts the

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wards to quarterback as being okay,well, the end all be all guy.
He is the guy, and everyonetalks about him, and somehow,
disappointing Cask gets pushed to the side. Lea romanticize the quarterback position, because
the reality is it is far andaway the most important position, not just
in pro football, but I wouldargue in all the sports. So there's

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very good reason for why it getsas much attention as it does. But
as we've discussed throughout the months,mate, I mean, the quarterback is
virtually impossible for a quarterback to havesuccess without being surrounded by strong supports to
whoever it is that you appreciate thelead. Whether it's a Patrick Mahomes or
a Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson,their success is nowhere near possible without having

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tremendous support from not just offensive teammates, but as I said earlier, defensive
teammates. So for as much asI acknowledge and give credit for what a
lot of the great young quarterbacks aredoing in the NFL, narrow you know,
I think CJ. Stroud is actuallya great example because he had as
good of a rookie season as anybodyhas had over last decade, and yet
his defense still ranked higher in preventingpoints when Strout and the offense did him

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producing points. And you don't hearanything said about Houston's defense, So I
think it should just be a wakeup call to anybody listening to anybody's a
fan of pro football. Glorifire quarterback. Love your quarterback if he's great,
But you still got to open thatdoor to recognizing the heart on this team.
Put in an upfront on the offensiveline, in the backfield, the
guy's catching passes, everyone, defense, special teams, coaching, it's the

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opening team. Sport talker to RyanMichael ed the Ryan Michael on Twitter.
Last one for me, what doyou think is the number one thing a
young quarterback needs to succeed early?Can? I view was split with two
different answers here. Yeah, thefirst thought that comes to mind is coaching,
and so we are certainly hoping tosee Sean Payton channel the offensive genius

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he displayed in New Orleans and passthat down to bow Knicks and the rest
of the guys. But I wouldargue with stable, strong defense, it's
just as important. And if youlook to say, even the Kansas City
Chiefs Super Bowl run this year,okay, the defense held upon it's the
fifteen point eight points per game.I'm not going to overlook the fact that
Patrick Mahomes was brilliant in the endof that Super Bowl. But it's worth

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noting that the twenty twenty three Jetsscored fifteen point eight points per game.
So if you have a top tendefense, Kansas City had the second rate
scoring defense in the league, it'sgoing to make any quarterbacks job infinitely easier.
Ask Rock Purty. So I don'tknow how to choose between that.
You definitely want to have strong coachingfrom the head coach and offensive coordinator,

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but definitely strength on the defensive sideof the ball for sure. Oh yeah,
break hit Ryan Michael at the RyanMichael on Twitter. Look forward to
chatting with you again next week.Sounds good, guys, All right on
Ryan Michael, offensive defensive analytics forthe Barcelona Dragons, contributor to the Pro
Football Hall of Fame. I alwaysenjoy having him on the show.