06-20-24 Hour 2 of Broncos Country Tonight

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to it. Broncos Country atTonight, Benjamin Albright, Gret Smith,

(00:04):
the Man, the Myth, theMustache, back there himself. No,
Nick Ferguson, he's out, uhthink for another week and it'll be back.
We're not exactly sure. He justhe just bounces out of here.
He says, I don't want todo work. I don't want to work
this week and busy interview and peoplelike Marlon Briscoe. Yeah, there you
go. Well too good for us. Well, Marlin's obviously passed away for
a couple of years, but he'syou know, heard the tribute right,
the tribute to uh tomorrown Brisk,which, by the way, Lamar Jackson

(00:25):
retweeted, Yeah, that was prettycool. That was pretty cool. I
sent him a message. It waslike you got the uh it's Lamar rt
buddy so and Nick Humble has everjust kind of laughed it off or whatever.
But five six six nine zeros thetext line. Thanks to Steve Atwater
for joining us in the last hourfor the bes Cinity part of that.
You can go to Broncos Country Tonightdot com, slash podcast or where you

(00:45):
gags podcast. It's Apple, iTunes, Spotify, You totally free and awesome
iHeartRadio app where you can also getto Taking It for Granted podcast, or
if you see the uh little redmicrophone up in the corner, you can
leave us a talk back message likethis, pay Steve when you say arian
he it's harder and you do.I think Christian McCoy might have something to

(01:06):
say about that. I love it. Oh, I love it five six
six text if you guys wild leavemessages like that. We always love getting
as we try to incorporate him intothe show as much as possible. It's
like it's like leaving a voicemail orwhatever, you know. For people wh
don't want to be live on theair, you can leave the little talkbacks.
I love it anyway. If youlisten on the iHeartRadio appets how you

(01:27):
do the talkback mechanism? We lovethat. Stacy from Utah, by the
way, still the king of thetalkback. He texted the KIWI Sports show.
I guess he was trying to getDave and Ryan to do something.
I don't know. He was tryingto get them to like say go Broncos
or something, and they wouldn't doit. Stacey, we will say whatever
you want to say on this show. We're not We're not snobs like Comrade

(01:51):
Edwards. Comrade Edwards has moved onup in the world. He's now diva.
Comrade Edwards. Good for it,too good for too good for the
talkbacks. We're not too good forit. No, I am absolute here.
I am your monkey, I amyour Pinocchio, I'm your puppet.
I am here to say whatever youwant. By six nine zeros a text
line. We are going to goright out to the KWA common Sparrel hotline

(02:12):
though, bring on one of ourfavorites, Ryan Michael. At you,
Ryan Michael on the Twitter? Howyou doing, Bud? Doing well?
Ben? How are you guys?It's been a been a fun day,
a little all over the map,but a little busy, but overall been
a pretty good day. Steve wasin here a segment ago. We were
I was noticing with the Marlin Briscothing, the number fourteen pops up a

(02:34):
lot. Have you have you noticedthat that number popped up a lot as
well? It sure has, AndI've been just waiting for the opportunity to
come on to explain to people whythe number fourteen is so much more impressive
than it probably seems because I betyou a lot of our listeners are thinking
of what raw numbers look like inthe NFL today, in the seventeen game

(02:55):
schedule, modern day rules, andthey wouldn't necessarily know that fourteen touchdown passes
in nineteen sixty eight in the AFLranked sixth in the league. And if
you combine Marlin's three rushing touchdowns thatyear, he tied two Hall of Fame
quarterbacks Joe Namath and Lenn Dawson forfourth in the league in total touchdowns with

(03:16):
seventeen total. So it's so muchmore impressive than just the raw number fourteen
or the raw number seventeen would leadyou to believe. And he didn't play
the whole season. I mean,he didn't start until I think it was
the first week of October. Hecame on a relief in the fourth quarter
of the last week of September,that's correct, And he only he appeared
in eleven games, but he onlyhad five starts in total. So the

(03:39):
numbers, again, just to breakthem down, and I love to adjust
statistics for era just to put intoperspective how impressive our forefathers had been.
He was seventh in the league withninety three pass completions, sixth in the
league in passing yards one thy fivehundred and eighty nine, as I had
mentioned, sixth in touchdown passes withfourteen, second the league in game winning

(04:00):
drives, second in the league intouchdown pass percentage at six point three,
led the AFL in yards per passcompletion at seventeen point one. So it
was an explosive brand of football.So and you compare him to Steve Tenzie,
who was the incumbent starter whom hereplaced in Marlin ranked higher than Steve

(04:20):
did in completion percentage, yards perattempt, touchdown pass percentage, interception percentage,
So by every measure, he outshinedthe guy who they groomed to be
the starting quarterback who would end uptaking the gig back the following year.
So when I look back to MarlinBrisco's nineteen sixty eight seas and he should
have been the rookie of the year, but statistically far more impressive than you

(04:41):
would think just looking at the rawnumbers. Yeah, it was kind of
an interesting year, you know,with that you had was it nineteen was
it sixty eight? I think youhad eight quarterbacks Lebronco is the eight quarterbacks
on that tea, Steve Tenzee tomcclare, John McCormick, Moreland, Brisco,
of course Davida, who is actuallythe guy in between Tenzie and Brisco.

(05:02):
Devido came in went one of sixfor sixteen yards, and then they
brought in Marlon Briscoe and you knowthe rest. Of course, I guess
his history as it were. It'sinteresting to me that he came in had
this success, they still didn't quitebelieve in him as the starter. Then
they move on from him, andhe just couldn't seem to get a starting
job anywhere else. Part of that, I think was going to Buffalo,

(05:25):
where they already were stocked at quarterbackwith Jack Camp, Tom Flores, James
Harris, you know all those guys, and they had more prototypical size at
that point anyway. Absolutely, andwhen he went to Buffalo, he was
already a formidable receiving threat. Bearin mind, and I encourage all of
our listeners to listen to Nick's interviewbecause he really breaks it down in great

(05:46):
detail there directly with Marlin that hehad never played receiver in his career before,
not in high school, not incollege. By his second year with
the Buffalo Bills in nineteen seventy,he finished seventh in the NFL in touchdown
receptions. He had eight second inthe NFL in receptions, fifty seven,
second in the NFL in receiving yardsone thousand and thirty six, and he

(06:08):
was only sixty five yards shy ofleaving the league. I think people really
need to pause for a moment andrecognize just how impressive it is for a
guy to switch positions with no priorexperience at that position, and in the
first year where the NFL and theAFL were merged, he was putting up
what would have been the equivalent ofJustin Jefferson like numbers adjusted for era.

(06:30):
Incredible. He was a first teamAll Pro selection and even received a vote
for League MVP that year at thereceiver position. Yeah, he finished.
He finished his career with a ProBowl, two time Super Bowl champion,
thirty five hundred receiving yards, thirtytouchdowns. Yeah, it's just it's interesting.
There was a movie are they weretrying to get a movie off the

(06:50):
ground about his life, called TheMagician, but it was It's one of
those things that's kind of sort ofbeen languishing and development for you know,
for years in trying to get thatthing off the ground. He had a
fascinating life. I mean, hewas one of the fifteen plaintiffs and MacKiev
National Football League in which the Rosellerule was declared violation of that he trust
laws. It's back in seventy five. He moved to La became a successful

(07:12):
financial broker. He had a problemwith cocaine and then recovered after rehab it,
became more director for the boys andgirls clubs. He's just he had
a fascinating life and it was it'sa shame that they can't get that movie,
that that biopic off the ground.I agree, because I would definitely
go to see that movie. Ithink it's a tremendous story of a guy
who broke down barriers, turned hislife around, and really, to this

(07:35):
day, I've always been a verystrong advocate for players who I feel are
underrated. And when you consider thesuccess he had a quarterback in really somewhat
unprecedented circumstances, and then the successhe had in Buffalo and the success he
had winning two Super Bowls with theDolphins in that undefeated nineteen seventy two season,
Sourt, noting in a fifty twoto nothing blowout against the Patriots,

(07:58):
caught four passes for a hun andtwenty eight yards and two touchdowns. So
he wasn't just a role player inMiami. He definitely contributed to winning those
championships. Yeah, it's fascinating tome because it's, i mean, the
the magnitude of what he did andwas able to accomplish. You know,
he was he really wasn't the thirdstring quarterback. He was a corner at
that point. When he got,you know, the tap to come in

(08:20):
for yeah, to come into playquarterback, it would be It's similar to
like the Kendall hitting thing, exceptif Kendle Hitton had gone on to ball
out. Yeah. Yeah, Ithink they are definitely similar parallels there to
be had. And I think,and for whatever reason, the number seventeen
is the stat then that really sticksout to me to have tied Jonamith and

(08:41):
Len Dawson truly at the peak oftheir power. Namith would go on to
win the Super Bowl that year theupside over the Baltimore Colts, and Len
Dawson would go on to upset theMinnesota Vikings the following season to produce an
equal amount of touchdowns to quarterbacks whoare Hall of famers playing at the peak
of their power, surrounded by Hallof Fame talent, when you're stuck on
a Broncos team that hadn't quite foundit shooting yet, it's impossible for me

(09:05):
to overstate just how impressive that was, sure a rookie quarterback to come in
and do that, that number fourteen, Yeah impressive, Yeah, it's fascinating,
and talking about these numbers, Iwant to get to the rookie touchdown
passing record that he holds. Sotalking with Ryan Michael d Ryan Michael on
Twitter, fourteen passing touchdowns is arookie passing touchdown number that still stands to
this day. Part of that isbolstered by the fact that the Broncos haven't

(09:30):
had a whole lot of rookies playingfor them since then. You look at
you know, John Always rookie year, only threw seven touchdowns, Jay cutlerly
played five games, Drew Lock onlyplayed what four or five games, Trevor
Senming only played one game his rookieseason, and you know then he had
eighteen touchdowns in his first starting season. Brock didn't plays rookie year, Paxton
barely played his rookie year. VoNicks looks like he has the best shot

(09:52):
to break Marlin Briscoe's record. Ithink it's a realistic expectation. You know,
whether he starts week one or wesee him get his feet wet sometime
around week three or week four,I can see either of those scenarios becoming
a reality, and you know,it's one of those records that is eventually
going to fall. But I assureyou this as much as I am the

(10:15):
biggest campaign manager for Pone Hicks,I think if he throws for fourteen or
more touchdown passes, he's certainly notgoing to finish fourth in the NFL in
total touchdowns. That would be asif a rookie quarterback stepped in and put
up Patrick Mahomes numbers today. SoI'm rooting for him to break the number
fourteen. But let's just keep itinto context a little bit adjusted. Fererra

(10:35):
Well, yeah, obviously, andI think there's a part of me that
doesn't want him to break it,you know, I mean, yeah,
I do want to see the Broncossucceed all the cast up on to succeed
blah blah blah. But I there'sa part of me that nostalgia where there's
a record that you don't want tosee falls. Is there any other record
that you can think of that youwould maybe not want to ever see fall.
That's a really good question, becausethere's so many records. If we're

(10:58):
talking specifically in Broncos history, partof me would say I never want to
see someone throw for more than fiftyfive touchdown passes in a season. But
you know, being a Broncos fan, I can't possibly say I'd be disappointed
a PHONEI fifty six next. Ithink records are meant to be broken,
and for me, as someone whohas a great appreciation for pro football history,

(11:22):
as long as you're adjusting for eraand looking at those records through the
lens of what they were at thetime when they're achieved, there's no need
to feel threatened by having a recordbe broken. It's all relatives. Yeah,
I think most of the records thatI would not want to see broken
would would would would harken from anothersport, you know, like cal Rinkin's
Lodgevity streak and baseball, which Idon't think will ever I don't believe that

(11:43):
will ever be broken. Nolan Ryanhas several of them, you know,
the leading the league in strikeouts eleventimes. I sincerely doubt anyone will ever
be able to do that ever.Again, those those kinds of things stand
to me is nostalgic of my youthtype records that I just don't want to
see broken, all right there withyou, and I don't think that we

(12:03):
have any reason to be concerned aboutthem being broken in our lifetime. Even
so, I think those are thereto stay. Football records a little bit
more malleable. We tend to seethem broken more often than a lot of
Major League Baseball's top records. Butnevertheless, even if you look to a
number of the career marks, let'ssay Tom Brady broke career pass completions,

(12:24):
career passing the yards, career touchdownpasses, it's really only two handfuls of
quarterbacks since the nineteen forties who haveheld those records, and most Hall of
famers never even touched those records.So, yes, they're changing hands a
little bit more often, certainly theMajor League Baseball, but it's still rarefy
their records being something even in professionalfootball don't let the haters tell you otherwise.

(12:46):
Well, that's true, five six, six nights, dech Line.
I think interesting to me you gettingback to those subject of football records.
While Peyton Manning's touchdown record was fun, exciting and broke because fans obviously,
you know, proud of all that, to me, the record that had
the most sizzle that you were sortof watching multiple times over the years as

(13:07):
people got close to it, ithad more accepted. It was almost the
home run record in baseball is theseason rushing yard record, which has stood
since nineteen eighty four. Twe hundredfive yards, Eric Diakerson. We saw
in my lifetime see Adrian Peterson comeclose. He got within was it like
eight yards? I think it was. We saw Jamal Lewis get close,

(13:30):
he was within one hundred yards,Barry Sanders got close, Derrick Henry got
close in twenty twenty I think hehad was a twenty twenty five for twenty
twenty seven yards something like that.TD of course got close in ninety eight.
I remember Chris Johnson. So forme, and it's funny because we
use back by committee now, sothat's it's probably even more out of reach.

(13:50):
But that one has had more sizzleto me. And I don't know
why. I don't know why thesingle season rushing yard has been the one
that I kind of if there's anybodyever close all a sudden I perk up.
I would assume it's because it's arecord that hasn't been challenged as often
as a number of the passing records. And you know, the NFL season
has expanded from fourteen to sixteen toseventeen. So when O. J.

(14:13):
Simpson rushed for two thousand and threeyards in nineteen seventy three, he averaged
one hundred and forty three point oneyards per game, which to this day
still the NFL record. Just punchingnumbers real quick in a seventeen game season,
that would be two thy four hundredand thirty two point seven yards.
That's impossible, an impossible number.And so he actually averaged more yards from

(14:35):
scrimmage in nineteen seventy five when herushed for one eight hundred and seventeen and
was more formidable threat through the air. I think records that stand for longer
periods of time tend to be morehallowed. I think that's human nature.
So whether or not anyone's going tobreak Dickerson's record. You know, we
could wait in another twenty years andstill be having the same conversation when we
both had gray hair. I understandthe appreciation for that record for sure.

(14:58):
Yeah, say both of us havegray hair. I'm assuming you're referring yourself
because the grays are creeping in foryou know, for me, And by
creeping I mean they're here. Ohmy goodness, talk about Ryan Michael.
Let you Ryan Michael aud twitter All. I'm gonna we gotta hit a break
here. When we come back onthe other side, I want to talk
to you about Tom Brady's struggles herein devth the greatest of all time struggled

(15:20):
here in Denver. What lessons wecan take from that, and maybe if
there's things that that the Denver Broncoscan do, uh with a natural maybe
built in advantage, we'll get togo inside the numbers then as well.
You listen to Broncos Country to Nightright around Kaway. Welcome to it,
Broncos Country Tonight. Benjamin Albright,Gret Smith, the Man, the Myth,
the mustache back there himself be RyanMichael on the the Guest hot Line.

(15:43):
We'll get back out there for asecond. Shout out to my boy
Nate Skinner who's listening to the show. I joined his podcast, it was
last week. He's got a linkup for that. If you guys want
to listen to it. I retweetedit. You can find all Bright NFL
and find the retweet there and youget a chance to listen to it.
He's up and covering. Man.It's got a good little pot cash.
You guys want to listen to listento that as well. Five six six

(16:03):
nine zeros. The text line youwant to get involved in the conversation had
several people text in there Brian tosee you there. Just tend a chance
to get back to you guys.If I don't respond on the text line
sometimes I mean I don't see itjust means a lot of times too time
to get back to you. Duringthe breaks. I know we have what
seemed like lengthy breaks forever, butthere are actually things going on during the
break as well. We're talking withthe Ryan Michael on Twitter Ryan Michael before

(16:26):
we went to before we went tobreak, and we wanted to talk a
little bit about do the Denver Broncoshave a built in advantage here, if
so, figuring out exactly what thatis at altitude and how do we harness
that against the great quarterbacks that wehave to play against in this division.

(16:47):
You you put some data together afterwe put the poll out there, But
you know why, I wanted toknow why Tom Brady struggled at mile high.
So Ryan, you got the data, run us through it. Yeah,
I would say to general, thenit's a combination of altitude, culture
and aggression on defense because we've hadsuccess against great Hall of Fame quarterbacks over

(17:11):
decades with different head coaches in differentdefensive coordinators. So it's impossible for me
to quantify the impact of altitude.But I don't think it's any secret that
opposing quarterbacks struggle when they come toDenver. Using Tom Brady as the example
from two thousand and one when hetook over as the starting quarterback for the
New England Patriots through twenty fifteen,the Blosston the ANFC Championship game to Manning

(17:37):
and the Broncos and that historic defense, Brady finished with a record of two
and seven in Denver, Colorado.He ended up going three and l after
that point in time. But it'sreally that two and seven. That's worth
honing in on. It actually startedhis, for lack of a better phrase,
his unofficial rookie season in two thousandand one. It was actually his
second loss before going on that SuperBowl run. They had lost to Kurt

(18:00):
Warner and the Saint Louis Rams onprimetime. But a little bit before that
they lost to US thirty one totwenty and Brady threw four picks. So
it started there and it really didn'tlet up all the way going through twenty
and fifteen. So when you lookat the history of a quarterback the caliber
of Brady, many people consider himto be the greatest of all time.

(18:21):
He sustained long period of losing herein Denver, some of the more notable
losses being the two thousand and fiveNFC Divisional loss to our guy, Nick
Ferguson and the rest of the defensethere Ferguson with the safety blitz Champ Bailey
with the famous one hundred yard interceptionreturn. You fast forward a number of
years to the twenty thirteen AFC Championshipteam. That was the game where Brady

(18:45):
was overthrowing receivers left and right.Peyton Manning put up four hundred yards on
Bill Belichick in that defense. Thencomes twenty fifteen and there's the brock Osweiler
wine Anderson's forty eight yard game winningtouchdown run and overtime. That was the
difference between the Broncos being the numberone seed versus the number two seed,
which gave us home field in theAF Championship game, where he goes on

(19:08):
to throw two picks really three ifyou consider the game loser on a two
point conversion attempt an interception, whichit was a pretty rough history in Denver,
Colorado. So we're looking to tryto carry a little bit of that
tradition over to the next generation.And so far, a little bit of
luck against Patrick Mahomes, Well,we would need a lot more luck because

(19:29):
we've only beat Mahomes one time andhe sort of had a fluid that game,
So maybe we need a little morewith that. But is there anything
to harness from that? Is thereis there anything you know with those struggles?
Is there any any element of thatthat we can sort of harness and
say, Okay, this is whyquarterbacks struggle here in Denver, and this
is how we use this to ouradvantage. I would say it's a combination

(19:52):
of scheme, play style, altitude, and personnel. So under Wade Phillips
in twenty fifteen, we saw alot of one gap intration up front,
right man coverage on the back end, and we just really smothered our opponents.
And you look at the personnel thatwe had that year, Chris Harris
Junior, a key to lead,TJ. Ward, von Miller, De
Marcus, ware Branded Marshall, DerekWoolf. I could go on and on.

(20:14):
When you have that kind of personnel, it allows you to be a
little bit more aggressive up front.So we look to what Vance Joseph does
and we're still very much in theprocess of assembling the personnel in order to
play that aggressive style of football.Right, you're going to see some base
three four, some high safety onnormal downs and distances oftentimes of safety in
the box. On run plays,it'll cover one, they'll cover three.

(20:36):
But the common ground here is thefast and aggressive nature. So you bring
in a guy like Jonah allis aguy who can generate pressure where we really
really needed to generate pressure. Lastyear didn't have the success certainty that we've
had in previous years. So Ithink if we can find a way to
combine that aggressive play style and assembleit with personnels who can really win,
especially in those one on one matchups. It's the perfect recipe compiled with that

(21:00):
com mine with altitude to give thesupposing quarterbacks a lot of trouble. Yeah,
and I I, you know,I tend to agree with that.
Something I've I've harped on and Nickand I really have talked about quite a
bit, is I feel like somethingthat Broncos could do offensively is go up
tempo right off the bat, youknow, come out, come out the
gate, go up tempo with anice you're on the script. You should
know what the plays are. Ishouldn't be confused with. They go up

(21:21):
tempo and gass them on that firstdrive, you know, really get them
sucking that you know, that thinair early. Uh, and do it
fast enough WHEREY can't substitute. AndI think that puts you on the front
foot, you know, kind ofkind of you know in game, something
that Broncos really, you know,I don't know, haven't done that much
of in recent years. Uh.There are other things I think that that
you could you could do kind oftweak that to your advantage. That seems

(21:44):
to be, you know, abig one. And then you mentioned sort
of the way that Wade Phillips andhis protege Events Joseph want to play defense
versus what we've done the last fewyears, you know, with with Wade
and with Vance. Uh you seethat that you want to kind of send
everything that you can at the quarterback, put your guys on an island and
play middle of the field closed onehigh, you know, three high type

(22:07):
coverages with with with Vic Fangio anda Jerovero and then even Advance last year
kind of continuing it to a degreethey were playing quarters match. He was
tight front. You know, youwant to send the least amount of people
at the quarterback possible, drop everybodyelse back. It's middle of field open,
C two, C four to six, you know, even coverages stuff
like that, and so it's it'sinteresting to see. It'll be interesting to

(22:27):
see this year if they do pivotall the way back to what Vance Joseph
wants to run, because it lookslike, based on the personnel decisions that
they've made, that that is whatthey want to do. I agree,
and I think at the end ofthe day, it's going to come down
to personnel. We really have totake a moment to appreciate just how special
that twenty fifteen thing was. Thatwas a nineteen nineties Yankees all star lineup

(22:52):
of defensers defensive players that allowed usto do a lot more than most teams
could take chances and succeed. Soit's a agule process. And as I've
been saying, in terms of whatwe've been assembling through the draft and through
free agency, with the resources thatwe have, in the reality of the
salary tab hell that we're living throughright now, it's going to be a

(23:12):
slow retooling. It's not something that'sgoing to happen overnight. So we look
back to the Peyton Manning era offenseof the twenty fifteen hour defense. We'd
love to have even a poor man'sversion of either of those two things,
but it's going to take some time. It's going to take some patience.
I'm confident we'll get better, butthose are some very high expectations to live
up to. Absolutely. Talking withRyan Michael v Ryan Michael on Twitter,

(23:36):
you talked a little bit about TomBrady's struggles here at never somebody who didn't
struggle. You're a Nevor Peyton Manning. Manning is widely considered one of the
best quarterbacks of all time. Youyou might even pause it that he was
one of the best. You've gotthe best quarterback of all time, even
though he didn't win the same amountof rings as Tom Brady, and I
think it's interesting to take a lookback at, you know, what Tom

(23:57):
Brady and Peyton mann I think we'reable to do. Contextually, it's interesting
to note that there was an articleout today or yesterday, as it were,
a six thousand word opus on whyMichael Jordan's nineteen eighty eight Defensive Player
of the Year award was actually aphantom. And you go back in this
guy who wrote this article, completewith tape and everything else. They were
cooking the books on the stats.He averaged something like four steals and two

(24:19):
blocks a game at home and thenyou know, regular numbers on the road,
and they were cooking the books forMichael Jordan while and nobody I guess
caught it or whatever. He woundup winning DPOY in nineteen eighty eight.
As we look at these numbers,as we look at what they were able
to do in their career, whywould someone consider Peyton Manning better than Tom

(24:40):
Brady. I would say that whenyou're having a discussion Ben about who the
greatest of all time is, whatI often see is I'll see two signs
of the debate having two different conversationsat the same time. It really comes
down to what one's criteria is.So say I'm the Manning guy in the
scenario and you're the Brady guy.The Brady guy is going to come to

(25:03):
the debate table and say, well, Tom Brady won seven Super Bowls,
he had the highest winning percentage ofany starting quarterback in NFL history. He
has all of the volume records interms of career completions, passing yard and
touchdown passes. That's a close case, especially if championship rings are the best
measure for greatness. Because he hasseven Auto Graham also had seven, but

(25:23):
in terms of the modern Super Bowlera, nobody else has more than four.
And I would say that if thatwere a good criteria, I don't
think there is a discussion that's worthhaving. Not only would Peyton Manning be
number two or number three, buthe'd be a distant number two or number
three if that were a good criteria. And then You'll have a conversation with
a Manning guy who will say,well, Manning is a five time League

(25:47):
MVP, more than anybody in history, a seven time First Team All Pro
selection, so in the modern SuperBowl era, and nobody else has more
than four. Aaron Rodgers has four, a handful of quarterbacks, including Brady
of three, Manning has seven.He broke the NFL's all time touchdown pass
record at the age of thirty eight. Brady didn't break that until the age
of forty three. He broke theall time passing yarded director at the age

(26:08):
of thirty nine. Brady had toplay until age forty four to break that
record. And so what you're havingis a debate with two completely different criteria.
So what I say is, ifyou're looking to Tom Brady as the
greatest of all time, and ifyou're going to start that debate with team
wins in Super Bowl rings, usethat only criteria against Brady himself, because

(26:30):
I'd make the argument that the greatestseasons of Tom Brady's career were all non
championship winning seasons. Two thousand andseven, far and away not only the
greatest year of his career, butone of the greatest single seasons in the
history of American sports twenty ten.League MVT through thirty six touchdowns to only
four picks in twenty ten. Nowadays, it's stuff to have single digit interception

(26:52):
totals if you're playing sixteen games.Come through four in a sixteen game schedule
almost fifteen years ago. League MVPagain in twenty seventeen and had some incredibly
underrated years that are acknowledged to advancedmetrics like DVOA. Twenty twelve was a
tremendous season. Two thousand and ninewas a tremendous season. I made the
argument in twenty fifteen when we beathim in the AFC Championship game he should

(27:12):
have been the League MVP. Soif the greatest years of Tom's career are
the years that he didn't win championships, then how is championships the best argument
to be made for him being thegreatest of all time? Because you might
love Tom, you might appreciate allthe success. He's an easy guy to
love, he's an easy guy toroot for. But if you're going to
acknowledge him as the vote because there'sseven rings, what you're doing unintentionally,

(27:34):
that is you're underrating two thirds ofhis career. The man played over twenty
years. So when you adjust statisticsfor Eric, we're just talking, certainly
from a statistical standpoint. Hayden Manningand Tom Brady both retired as the all
time touchdown path leader passing yardage leaders, But you look at the actual adjustment
CARNA. When Peyton Manning was atwenty two year old rookie, he finished

(27:56):
fifth in the NFL with twenty sixtouchdown passes fIF with a've been thirty seven
touchdown passes during the last sixteen gameseason in NFL history. Twenty twenty,
he was third in the NFL,number one in the AfD in passing yards
with three thousand, seven hundred andthirty nine yards. That would have been
seventeenth in twenty twenty. Third placewould have been four thousand, six hundred
thirty three yards. Then you adjustfor the fact that they actually did play

(28:19):
a considerable amount of time in differenteras a lot of people. You know,
there's obviously the overlap from the headto head matchups, but people forget
Peyton started fifty games before Tom madehis first start, and Tom started one
hundred and twenty seven games to hiscredit. The greatest quarterback by measure of
longevity, far and away after Manningretired. That's a one hundred and seventy

(28:41):
seven game non era adjusted swing thatbasically takes away from Manning's numbers and adds
to Brady's numbers, especially if we'retalking from an efficiency standpoint. And despite
that one hundred and seventy seven gamestretch, Payton Manning based every single efficiency
metric with the exception of interception avoidantsinterception percentage, so he had a higher

(29:04):
completion percentage, higher yards for attemptto average, higher touchdown pass percentage,
more passing yards per game, lowersack percentage. So by every measure,
Peyton and a top Tom Brady.And that's even without factoring in one hundred
and seventy seven game adjustment. Fivesix sixty nine Zero's the text line.
Quite a few of the texts disagreeand think that Brady was and always will

(29:25):
be the Goats. I guess we'llhave to reload that argument and give you
another chance to break that down.At some point. What does Sean Payton
have to gain this season? Weknow Sean Payton came back because he loves
coaching, but he also came backbecause Sean Payton wants the Hall of Fame,
and he knew he was not gettingthe Hall of Fame unless he did
something significant with another football team withoutDrew Brees. It's similar to the Belichick
Brady sort of thing, you know. And so Sean Payton has an opportunity

(29:51):
to come in here to Denver.He's trying to do something no other head
coach has ever done, and that'swin a Super Bowl with two different teams.
But what is it that Sean Paytonhas to gain here in Ironically,
then I think that Sean Payton hasfound himself in almost the exact same situation
that Russell Wilson has found himself,in the sense that if Russell Wilson had,

(30:12):
for whatever reason retired as a SeattleSeahawk, he would have put together
a decade of dominance that very fewplayers in all of NFL history could compete
with, and in my view,he would have been a first ballot Hall
of Famer. The fact that hecame to Denver struggled tremendously in twenty twenty
two was a lot better than givencredit for. But people are still going

(30:32):
to focus on the win loss recordfrom twenty twenty three. Now people are
saying it's to make it or breakit. In terms of his performance in
Pittsburgh, I put him in theHall of Fame regardless. He's a top
twenty five all time quarterback. Idon't think there's anything he can do to
take away from that. But that'sa very comparable situation to what Sean Payton
finds himself in, where if hehad just retired along with Drew Brees,
he would have gone down as oneof the greatest offensive geniuses of all time.

(30:55):
I believe he put together nine seasonswhere the offense ranked top five in
scoring, two of them led theleague in New Orleans. That's as perfect
as a head coach of resume asyou could ever ask for, at least
from an offensive perspective. But theissue is he hung in there after Drew
Brees retired. He came over toDenver eight and nine last year, and
I'll defend him in so much asto say that it could be a lot

(31:17):
worse than eight and nine. Bronco'scountry has felt greater pain than eight and
nine, But it's not the standardthat we're hoping for because the combination of
Russell Wilson Sean Payton. We werehoping for a Super Bowl. Now are
in a little bit of a differentscenario. If he wins a Super Bowl
with the Denver Bronco, it's aslam dunk. Will be a first Fammer,
realistically being able to be the firstperson in all of history to win

(31:40):
a Super Bowl of the second team. It's not likely, but I'll tell
you this. If he helps rebuildDenver into a competitive, double digit winning
playoff contending team, and if he'sable to develop bon Nicks into a Pro
Bowl caliber When I think Pro Bowlcaliber, I mean top three in the
conference, not the game itself,no game anymore. But if he's able
to help bo Nix become that poorman's Drew Brees that I refer to him

(32:04):
with affection, I think that thatmakes a very compelling case for him in
the Pro Football Hall of Fame.If things go in a different direction,
you may also see his chances forinduction to the Pro Football Hall of Fame
become more of a struggle than theywould have been otherwise. Ryan, we
always appreciate the time at the RyanMichael on Twitter, look forward to catching
up with you again next week.Brother. Sounds good man appreciate having me
on. Take Care Broccos Country tonightgot to hit a commercial break. We'll

(32:27):
be back after this