12-31-24 Hour 1 of Broncos Country Tonight

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Got you for a New Year's Eve fiesta. That's what
we're calling it tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Five six six, nine zeros in text line.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
If you guys want to getting call involved in the conversation.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Got plenty to get to tonight, we'll get to my recap,
my thoughts on the Cincinnati game, looking forward to the
Kansas City game, the implications thereof.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Look back on this year.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
As always, we try to empty out the quiver on
the bad tweets.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
There's usually a few of them.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
This year, there wasn't There wasn't really really any good
like juicy the embarrassing ones this year, but there's there's
a few in there that I'm like, like, oh, you know,
I could have I wishuld I have had that back.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I got some embarrassing misses this year.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
I feel like, you know, I was on a hot
streak last couple of seasons this season, but I got
some ugly mess of this is this is.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Your time to come clean like the rest of us.
This is what we do on this show into the year.
We have to out the quiver on the bad tweets
so we can start fresh in the new year. And
I want to hear you guys, if you guys had
any predictions out there that you you had that were
pretty bad. I want to hear those from you guys
as well. Five six sixty nine Zeros tax Line. No
Steve to night.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Obviously New Year's.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
So Steve, I believe it's anniversary too, but he's he's
not going to be in the night.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
So those of you expecting Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Atwater, I apologize, It's just gonna be me tonight talking
your ear off.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
I know, lovely, right, Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Broncos and Bengals in the debacle that was, you all
have to be for being nervous about that game, and
I wanted to be wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I desperately wanted to be wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
But the Bengals and Joe Burrow went for four to
twelve through the.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Air another one hundred and five on the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
And managed to pull out the victory on the Broncos
despite some late game heroics from Marvin Mims. The one
touchdown I was, man, I was like, I don't know
that ball's moving going over there. I was like, we
got away with it. I'll take it. I'll absolutely take it. Well,

(02:14):
I do know about that. The other one man right
down the way he was hit the post right down there.
What a beautiful throw from ball. What a beautiful catch
by Marvin Mims. Who why aren't we using him for
every vertical thing that we're doing. Can we stop trying
to make Troy Franklin happens. It's like a migo.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
This fetch is not happening. It's not happening, all right.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
The thing about Troy Franklin, and this is a parent
when you were scouting him coming in as part of
the reason he slipped to the fourth rounds in the
first place, and when.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Everybody was excited about getting Troy Franklin.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
The fourth round, and I was like, well, this is
why you go back and you look at the say,
Troy Franklin is a guy who needs to have his
numbers back toward the quarterback. He's got to be looking
back toward the quarterback. He's at his best when he's
running across the field flashing the numbers back toward the quarterback.
Catch up. He does not track the ball well over
his shoulder. And we've seen it all year. I saw
it in camp. There were two things in camp that

(03:07):
bug that you know what out of me? Well three
the drops. He didn't track the ball well over the
shoulder and he couldn't beat the jam.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Still can't beat the jam.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
The drops have largely gone away, other than you know,
the balls get him in hand, although you know we
had some of those still midseason, and he's still untracked
the ball well over the shoulder.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
He's done.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
And so you know, I don't understand why we continue
to play with one hand tied behind our back when
our best vertical wide receiver finally gets involved in the
game plan. But we've been trying to make Troy Franklin
this thing that he's not well keeping Marvin Mims packed,
you know, over there on the bench.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
We're put him in a bubble wrap for the playoffs
if we get there.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Like, I just don't understand some of the stuff we
do at times, I get the too many reps for
LL Jordan Humphries because he's a good blocker.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Like I get it, that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Honestly, he's the best blocker you have out there at
any skill position, to include our entire tight end room,
which is sad. He's the most willing, he's willing to
get dirty. He'll go out there an he's effective.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
What I don't get though, is this maniacal obsession with
trying to make Troy Franklin the guy up the left
sideline exclusively where we use him, by the way, instead
of the slot receiver over the middle that he is.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's what he is. He's a He's a glorified slot guy.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
I mean, if, even if I'm being honest, if the
Broncos do what they should do this offseason and infuse
the skill position groups with some talent, I don't know
if Tory Franklin should be on the twenty twenty five Broncos.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I know that sounds hard.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
He's a fourth round pick, he's a second year player,
But I mean it all showed up on the college tape,
and I think, you know, Bo Nicks, you're getting one
of the better versions of the college prospect saw on tape.
Troy Franklin, I feel like you're getting one of the
worst versions. All the problems that showed up on a tape,
his ball tracking, his how easily he's re routed, you

(05:09):
know when he's trying to run, his routes, his ability
to complete the catch have all come up very frequently,
and I don't know where he fits in on this
roster when Mims was struggling to kind of find his
footing as a receiver. You had the gadget stuff that
was really great with him. You had his special team's ability,
which was a big plus. I don't think Troy Franklin
brings any of the special team's ability.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
He's not that great a returner.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
He's not going to be tackling guys as a gunner
because he's so light. And then, you know, I don't
think you can do the gadget stuff with him either,
because he's you know, gets tackled very easily.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
He's not breaking through arm tackles like Mims's.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, it's it's just looking at Troy. I mean, I'm
not going to go that far with it because to me,
you got to give a receiver two years in this
league to really know, it takes a long time for
stuff to click. So you got to gi him two years.
I don't have my year three that I can get it.
But yeah, I mean trying to put Troy Franklin in
a role that's not suited for him and then wondering
why it's not working. Meanwhile, those reps that could go

(06:07):
to a guy that can do those things in Marvin mims.
We're not using as much as we should, and now
we see against Cincinnati why we should be using it more.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
And it's just it's one of those things that perplexes me.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
And as I watch throughout the season, I've had complaints
here or there with things, and that's one of the
complaints I've had. We've talked at nauseum about clock management,
those kind of things. And I will say this, while
I would have gone for two at the end of
that game, I dogged the mess out of Sean Payton
for his indefensible decision to throw the ball into half

(06:42):
at the Chargers game.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
There is no argument here. There is no debate.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
It was a terrible decision. I don't care what he
said at the presser.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
It was stupid. There is no defending it.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
I have to come back and say, when you know,
the decision to go for one there was actually mathematically viable,
specifically because a tie would have put the Broncos in
the playoffs as well, right, So the decision to go
for one in that scenario is mathematically defensible. I totally
get it. It's had a decision I would have made again,
I would have gone for two. But it is a

(07:15):
mathematically defensible position. So I can't sit there after dogging
in one week and not defend him from everybody roasting
him for things the other way the next week.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Gotta be fair.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
That said, there were plenty of other decisions I didn't like,
especially basically every play call it overtime.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
But that decision at that point, given.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
The fact that a tie puts you in any way,
it's mathematically defensible, So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
dog for that. There were there were some other usage
things in this game that I didn't understand. We didn't
give you, we didn't give you Avante a single carry.

(07:56):
We did target him twice, and I felt like, towards
the end in the fourth quarter, that's the time you
give a guy like Chavante, who's you know, transitioning to
that third down back roll. That's the time you give
him a carrier too, when a defense is worn down
and you've got a guy with that kind of strength
to be able to get a chance on an opportunity
to do that when you're when you're sixty plays in

(08:17):
on offense. And I would say, okay, Julian had the
hot head. Fair, but at that point he's a little
tired too. I mean he'd had ten carries in that game.
MoU see, he had a couple of catches. If you're
not going to use Estimate as that guy full time,
why not you Javante are carried too, just to see
what he's got at that point, then maybe you get

(08:37):
lucky in today's day. You know, Uh, Devon Valley only
get into two targets the entire game, buddy, that's you,
Tim Patrick, that's your third down money guy.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
He's probably your ex receiver next year.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
On the ball, he's money every time you throw it
his way. He has the most efficient receiver of the
Denver Broncos have. He catches the balls that have thrown
his way, and by far too. You go back and
you look at the numbers over the course of the season,

(09:14):
and in terms of success percentage catching.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
The football, he leads the Broncos. That's not particularly close either.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
You got a couple of guys who were higher simply
because they've had low, low target opportunity, guys.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Like Nate Atkins or Mike burtn or whatever.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Bononix actually leads the team and catch percentage one hundred
percent since he caught one ball for I mean, you're
talking about guys who just who just aren't getting.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
And he catch opportunities I mean ten to do. You
don't know about ten targets.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
On the season, which, by the way, you know, I
mean Vele is the multi target guy here. You're talking
about fifty one targets on the season. He caught thirty
seven of them. That's two and a half percent, seventy
three percent. To put that in perspective, Courtland Sutton, the
guy everybody says is the man run here caught fifty
nine percent of the balls thrown.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
His way, and he saw the crazy difficult reception he
came up with on that I think it was the
first third down of the game or that first drive
where Bow fitted into a tiny window and lay came
away with it. That's what he's been so valuable for
a peace offense.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
See, that's why Tim Patrick is with the Detroit Lions
right now, and Vele is going to trans you know,
transfer over and be that X receiver next year.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
He's the slant guy. He's gonna be your slat god.
That's what he's gonna be.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
They'll spam him with one hundred and ten targets next
year if he stays healthy on slants seven hundred yards
on a hundred receptions, the new slant boy slid God. Yeah,
this is you know, like Mike Tom That's what you know.
I mean, it's sins. He might be a Debi god
instead of a god, but you know it's still it's
it's like the thing. No surprise. By the way, the
least efficient wide receiver for the for the never Broncos,

(10:55):
he is won Troy.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Franklin, who catches fifty of the throws thrown his way.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
He has had fifty one targets this year, fifty one
and has caught a mere twenty six of them. It's
just one of those things that I Meanwhile, Marvin Mims again,
forty seven targets, thirty four receptions, seventy two percent. Marvin
Mims catches the ball twenty one percent more of the

(11:24):
time when targeted than Troy Franklin. Yet we throw the
ball more to Troy Franklin. If I asked you who
was second on the team in receiving touchdowns, who do
you think it would be?

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Number one is courtland side. Everybody knows that Mims.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
It's Mims with four and I imagine the lion's share
of those have to be coming two in this last game,
and then the others have.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
To be in recent week. We're all recent. He's turned
it on down this stretch. They had him in the doghouse.
They finally put him out there on the field.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
The number three touchdown guy on this team is Nate Atkins.
Agin says twelve targets on the season, three him are touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
I mean, that tells you all you need to know
about this team. Needed some help at a tight end
next year.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
It tells you all a.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Skilled position wide.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
But I mean, as you look at this, and I
do believe that they will address tight end and running
back for sure.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
I think they'll grab a receiver in the draft.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
What I don't think they're going to do is spend
big money in any one of those places, because the
money that's needed for that is probably going to Nick
Benito's next contract and re upping Zach Allen, who, as
we've seen, are vital and those are good investments.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
I would much rather invest in Zach Allen and Nick
Benito to keep doing what I know they can do,
than give Key Higgins thirty million dollars to try and
be something he's never done. He's always been the Robin
to Jamar Chase's batman, and that's a pretty cause he's
bought to be.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
After the other night, we're gonna call him Nightwing instead
of Robin just because.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
He's not you know, he's got a little bit better.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
But I'm just saying, but as we look at this,
feels like that our personnel usage over the course of
the season has been ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
I mean, frankly, it's it's been ridiculous. Troy Franklin.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Is the worst, the least most efficient receiver on the
team fifty one, catches fifty one percent of the balls
thrown his way, and he's third on the team in targets,
third behind Courtland and Gavante.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
How much of that do you think is the bon
nix of it? All that familiarity.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
I feel like there's been FeAs when bo Nicks is
finaling to it, Dude, Marvin Mims is wasn't on a field.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
You put Marvin Mims on the field, we saw what happen.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Touche.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
Yeah, Troy Franklin was third on the team this season
in targets with fifty one, which is also the percentage
of balls he catches that have thrown his way.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
That is absurd.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
As far as his success percentage goes, which is a
number based on how many yards you get. Really, if
you have to the uh yards to go, Trefi can
also worst on the team thirty three percent. When he
does catch the ball, he very very rarely gets first down.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
He struggled so much with the downfield stuff. And again
he's such a light body. Even though he's very very
quick on the underneath stuff, he's too easy to take
down to get meaningful.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yard is very often.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Ten of his twenty six receptions off of fifty one
targets have gone for a first down. That means fifty
one times they've gone to him looking for a first
down and they got one ten times, less than twenty percent.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
That is brutally bad, brutally bad.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Meanwhile, you got guys like you know, de Vonvele success
percentage sixty six point seven.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Percent, unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
They thrown the ball to Devon Maley also fifty one times.
It's tied with Franklin for third on the team. He
has thirty seven receptions. That's sixteen more for you math nerds.
Twenty three first downs, what or what like? It just
it blows my mind, like what are we doing with
some of this stuff?

Speaker 1 (15:16):
And it comes under focus. It comes into focus because
the last couple.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Of weeks we've blown games against the Chargers in the Bengals.
Chargers at least are gonna make the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
The Bengals, well, we gotta lose to get them in.
We'll see.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
I talked to somebody, and this is how I knew
when we did the opening line on Sunday. I talked
to somebody with the Chiefs organization, and we knew that
they were gonna not be playing their starters pretty.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Early on Sunday morning. We talked about it on the
opening line. If you did not catch that, of course,
that news came out later.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
That person I talked to with the Kansas City organization
said very much, we want the Broncos in the playoffs
over the Bengals.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean, the Bengals beat the Chiefs.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Joe Burrow and the Bengals have already been the Chiefs
and eliminated them in that the Kansas City.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Chiefs are more worried about the Cincinnati Bengals and the
never Broncos.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
I mean I would be too. Steve Spagnolo, I think
we should.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Should have.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
But I will say Steve Spagnolo great defensive coordinator. In
the playoffs, it gets much more game plan specific.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
We know he can cook up stuff out the funerals quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
I think he'd be licking his chops to go up
against any rookie, especially in comparison to Joe Burrow, with
the way Burrow has been playing over this last month
or two, with his his eight game crazy streak.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, and there's a lot that goes into all that,
and we'll get done with the complaining about that. I
want to dive into the game a little bit in
the next segment.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
We'll go through all that.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Then we'll then we'll wash our hands and start looking
forward to Kansas City.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
But I want to want to get into this thing.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Had a chance to recap it all yet five six, six,
nine zeros and text line you guys want to get
involved the conversation. Quite a few texts coming in new year,
same wet blanket, albright. It's already already in appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
You're getting it all out of your system over these
next time.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I'm purifying myself in the in the waters of Lake
Winnetaka's to quote the Chappelle Show Prince sketch.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
I think it's minetaka, but.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Five six, six times zero.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
You guys want to get involved. I want to hear
what you have to say.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
What your confidence level is going up against Casey's backups
this weekend? You in that you're hogg to Buffalo where
the task looks I don't want to say insurmountable, but
certainly it's certainly a challenge a lot different than it

(17:35):
could have been. We come back, We'll get a little
bit more into this stuff. He listen to Broncos Country
and I don't care why Broccos Country tonight past Hater
Country tonight. According to Zach Segers, I think we saw

(17:56):
him fumble it just a little bit ago.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Boys, he taking on Penn State.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
He just finally got on the board in that one
Penn State was up fourteen oh.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
And started getting a look cute with it. Boys.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
He finally put together a bit of a drive get
back down there. And I think I do believe did
they make the extra.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
They did? Okay, if they did, then it's the fourteen
to seven. Now as we look at this, they finally
got a productive carry.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
It looks like, yeah, looks like out of the fullback,
they finally got a running back to can move the ball.
Chanty has eleven carries for forty five yards, no touchdowns.
Tyler Crowe went in from eight yards out for a touchdown.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
In that one.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Chanty was the uh, the the dupe on the play
that said, I was eight forty one left in the
second quarter and like I said, Janty at thirty five
yards no touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Army quarterback Bryce.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
And Daily currently holding the NCAA touchdown lead for the season.
Janty would I believe he just scored three ring touchdowns
in this game.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
To catch up, I took the under on Janz's rushing
yardage today.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, I think that's smart. You know what.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
I think Genty's an amazing player. He'll be a first
round draft pick. But I am glad to see this
game because I think it just demonstrates, you know, it
wasn't a crime that this guy didn't get the Heisman Trophy.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
He played a.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Mountain West schedule. He was very productive against that Mountain
West schedule. But I mean so was Rashad Penny like
five years ago, and no one was calling him a
Heisman Trophy winner.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, I didn't. There was a couple of different things,
and we got into that a little bit at the
time about the Heisman. You know, you can't have Shador
up there because then you're saying that Travis isn't you know,
I mean just that Chardor makes Travis, well, then that
doesn't really Travis, lucky for him, had the both sides
of the ball thing going, you know, going for him,
so that they kind of set him apart. And I
think he deservedly won. With the quarterbacks that were in it,

(19:48):
I didn't understand, you know, we cam Ward Okay, this
kind of felt like it was a lifetime achievement award
for him and Dylan Gabriel, you know, like you guys have.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Been around for a long time. You're in the Heisman finals,
you know.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah, it felt like, oh, this is the thing we
normally do. We give it to a quarterback on a
top ten team.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
You two. You know, like, meanwhile, we're going off production.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Kyle McCord over there at Syracuse is wiping them off
the face of the planet. Oh, by the way, Yeah,
the quarterback at Army who led the NCAA and touchdowns
still does by the way in rushing touchdowns and more
rushing touchdowns than Jenti.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
And Bryson daily is that army offense, I feel and
Dylan Gabriel and Cambord were great for those two programs
this year.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
But I feel like if you've put any of.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
The top fifteen quarterbacks, you know, Oregon or Running Miami,
it's the same thing. It's just we're rewarding the programs
in the offense is not necessarily who we think the
best player in college football is.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
This isn't a.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Johnny Manziel or even Jamis Winston or Marcus Mariota level
resume from those guys, right.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
And I'm with it, But a lot of Johnny Manziel
was just Mike Evans too.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
That was one of those things back in the day
when that was happened, I was like, Bro, this receiver
is absolutely bailing some of the he throws out Right now,
I'm telling you, this dude's gonna be a stud. I
remember when he came out and I could not stop
raving about it.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Everybody else was. I tremember who it was that year.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Everybody was on this other receiver and I did not
like that other Sammy Watkins I think it was. I'm
pretty sure was that. I'm pretty sure it was Samy
Waki's or three receivers that year. I think it was Watkins,
Odell Beckham, and Mike Evans. I'd have to go back
and look, but I think those were the three in
that drafts and Evans was the.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
One I was looking at. I said, man, there isn't
anything this dude can't do.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
He can he can. He's a long strider who can
out gain you, he can quick twitch you with the
slant game, he can out jump you. And you know,
not to take away from Manziell's special athleticism, because he
was some of those incredible escapes that he was making
back there that made him the back then Russell Wilson
of college football. Yeah, I thought so. I thought, so, yeah,

(21:53):
there's those three, and Sammy Watkins was like all the
draft people on Twitter, Oh it was Sammy Watkins, Sammy
Watkins at I'm like, man, I don't know, I think
this guy's more of a running back than he is
a wide receiver.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
He was super hyped up. People thought he was gonna
be like the next tou Leo Jones. Yeah, he was
getting that level of a yeah, and I was like.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
I would much rather have I would much rather have
this kid down at A and M.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Who was the only guy down there that Manzielle was
was really consistently.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Claims it was loaded with Town at that time.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I'm pretty sure Knuke was the other receiver opposite Sammy
Watkins were part of that. You imagine that receiving of course,
Sammy Watkins and DeAndre Hopkins.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
That's disgusting. Yeah, no, wonder Taj Boyd looked, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Oh and then you know Odell back when I think
everybody knows all that the litany of LSU receivers that
were you know.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
That were there at the time, and all that kind of.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Stuff and go back through that. But yeah, no, Mike Evans,
I remember when he was down at A and.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
M and I saw him. I was like, Oh, this
guy's could be a stud. Somebody's gonna gonna absolutely luck
out and take this guy. And you, no matter what.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
You did, no matter what you did, you could not
convince people on Twitter. You could not convince anybody on Twitter.
Tammy Watkins the receiving God.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, I think that's the reason he had such a
long NFL career. He hung around in the NFL with
like six different teams for a dang year. I want
to say he retired only a year or two ago
despite never really popping off.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
I think in large part because of the college hype
he had. I remember him going to He was briefly
with the Rams.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
I remember in Kansas City a couple of years, and
they kind of sort of turned him into sort of
what he could be.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
His best years were always like in Buffalo, but I.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Always felt like that he was a guy that was
was probably should have been a running back more than,
you know, more than a receiver.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
He's a little tall.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
For running back. He was like six six foot in
a little change, but the way he was built, the
way he did stuff, he was just not.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
He just wasn't a leading ex receiver in the league.
And that that's what they drafted him to be.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
They put him in a Buffalo offense, that's what they
drafted it to be, and he wasn't that guy. He
did have his best he's was I think it was
with twenty fifteen. It was the only year with over
a thousand yards. He ate like nine or ten touchdowns
that year. But you know, he's just not.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
I don't know he was.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
He was never. I mean, he was never even a
pro bowler his entire career, hung around a long time,
never even a pro bowler, had one.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Thousand yards season.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Meanwhile, Mike Evian's set one thousand yards every year. He's
been every year, literally a thousand yards every year.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
That Clemson receiving corps. By the way, yeah, you were right.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
You got to go back to twenty twelve because I
think that was a or twenty thirteen rather because that
was the Andandre Hopkins draft, right, But you get Martavis Bryant,
Jamie Watkins, and DeAndre Hopkins. And then the fourth guy
off the bench was Adam Humphries hung around in the
NFL for a while, was a.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Good slot guy. Yeah. Yeah, they had tons of talent.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
It didn't include the running backs and everything else they
had going on.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I'm pretty sure Tdydrey Ellington another NFL guy.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Wasn't TODJ. Boyd the quarterback back then, I believe, yes.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
And Chad Kelly, I'm assuming it was the same. Chad
Kelly the third stringer as a person.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, Chad Kelly was because he got kicked out of
there too, But that was which by the way, he's
in trolly have to win in the Great Cup p
or what ady's in trouble in the CFL. Now you
see allegedly sexually harassed or assaulted a U A trainer.
I don't know that you have to look that one up,
but yeah, Chad Kelly, I coughed five six six nine

(25:15):
zeros a text line, A lot of texts coming in,
and it's it's interesting because it felt like it was
funny to me because I Nick and I we were out,
We're out at the gin Mill doing the Orange Blue
Watch party, watching the game, and I was kind of
keeping an eye on Twitter as the game sort of
went along, and you know, we were we were going

(25:38):
back and forth because we you know, we in the
downtime we like.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Talk a little bit, and you know, you used to go, hey,
you know the city.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
You know, I know they all think you're a wet blanket,
but you're just speaking truth to power and nobody else will.
And man, I'll tell you, I don't know. I asked
you about it actually, because you listened to you did
Brocos react that night? I asked you, But I was
asking about the calls, the text or whatever, because on
Twitter do the vibe changed that Twitter loved Sean Payton
up until that game. I couldn't. It didn't matter what

(26:04):
I said. I was just a hater boy, it was,
I mean, just melting down. Meanwhile, the text line right now,
it's kind of the same thing. Not very optimist about
being the Chiefs. Peyton's play calling is lots to be
desired it. I mean, like it was.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
On Twitter at the time.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
But I tell you, Twitter, that.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Might have been the day they turned on Sean Payton.
And I'll tell you what, if you don't beat the Chiefs,
it might be.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
It might be the day that the expectations and the
least show on him ends at the end of next year.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, I mean, if he loses to the Chiefs and
a squad of backups and Carson Wentz that a team
with literally nothing to play for while the Broncos have
their lives to play for, that's going to be very concerning.
That said, I do think to an extent, we are
punishing Sean Payton for being too good at his job.
If they lose that game and we're talking to, you know,

(26:51):
a six and ten Broncos team losing to the Bengals
in that fashion. I don't think anyone cares so much
if we get the positive boat next returns they hit
the over on the win total. I don't think he's
being held as harshly for those decisions as he is now.
He's only we're only in this position in large part,
I think because of excellent coaching decisions that came to

(27:14):
fruition through the first fourteen to fifteen weeks of the season.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Well that's one opinion.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'll go the other way with it, and I'll say this,
I think he's held his team back. I think he's
coached them out of at least two wins this year.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
It could be more.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
And I'll say this, maybe maybe everybody just underestimated this roster.
Maybe everybody's just underestimating this roster and saying that Sean.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Payton coach him up.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Maybe the roster was that good and he's coached down.
Maybe we got to hit traffic here. We'll get a
chance to discuss that. We come back with Davill Bryan.
Party of TAM's are gonna join us at eight o'clock
hour just to talk to him. Happy almost new year
to everybody. I hope this coming season, this coming year

(27:55):
brings you everything that you're looking for.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
I hope you guys can stick to those resolutions.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
They say people who make resolutions usually give them up
by day twenty, Like eighty eight percent of people have
given them up by day twenty.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
I buy it, man, Gym February first and January first
are very different places.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's that's fair. That's fair.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
And it's just so they got this gym over by
the house that I want to start going to, and
I want to go get a like a membership, but
I don't want to go get it right now because
I don't be one of those guys, you know, like
I don't want to be lump tym with like the
jan one crowd or whatever.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
So I got I'm like, do I just wait till
February eight? I just just be lazy for a month
and then and then go hit the gym. Yeah, dude,
do Like, uh, Chinese New Year whenever? That is what
I mean.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
I don't think it's the first, but I mean, what
is what Chinese year is the year of the Skunk?

Speaker 1 (28:42):
I mean, like what what what year is it? I
have no idea. We need to know these things.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Five six, six six line. We were talking before we
ended traffic about Sean Payton and his impact on this team.
I do believe that Sean Payton adds value to the
team because I don't want to I don't want to
be to think I'm sitting here hating or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
I think Sean Payton's, you know, it's a decent coach.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
I think he's he's like John Fox or or you know,
it's going to quotea Denver example, George Carl You gotta
be competitive if you're gonna make the playoffs every year
with the coach like that, he's just not the guy
to take you to the promised Land. He did it
once with the Saints early on, but he had a
top five all time quarterback and they never they never
got back, didn't really even come close. The only time

(29:28):
the the closest sa M kame was that one call
the Minnesota excuse me, the Vietnam Minesota, the Rams, Nicole
Roby Coman and there's no guarantee they would have there.
But that was one of those ones that I felt
like he was on the wrong side of a call
on that one. But I believe he's a good coach.
It's weird when people say he's a Hall of Fame coach.

(29:49):
I'm like, he's the exact same resume as Mike McCarthy,
Like the exact same resume, and nobody thinks Mike McCarthy's
a Hall of Fame head coach. Oh, by the way,
he's got two scandals on his you know, on his
career too. I said from the beginning that Sean Payton,
if he ever wanted to make the Hall of Fame,
would need to win a Super Bowl with the Denver Broncos.
Do something no other coach has ever done, win a
Super Bowl with two separate teams. No coach has done it. So,

(30:12):
you know, if he wants to make the Hall of Fame,
that's really where it's at. That's where it's at for legacy.
But you know, I could make the argument, and Zach
was talking about earlier that this team wouldn't be nine
wins without Sean Payton. I could make this argument, this
team could be eleven wins with any other coach not
making those decisions, not making boneheaded decisions.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
That took your team out of the opportunity to win games.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
I could go back and say that last year they
might have paid the playoffs with that bone headed game
management decisions. Sean Payton go down the stretch on that
New England Patriots. First of all, a game plan for
the game is weird, but go back to look at
the clock management. He's gifting Bill Belichick timeouts to let
the Patriots come back and win the game.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
So there are arguments to be made both ways.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
I'm not dismissive of Zach's X argument because I do
believe that Sean Payton has elevation to the discourse.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Although, to be fair, elevating.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
The culture from what Nate Hackett had it at it's
about as low a bar to clear as possible.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
But I don't think it's just Nate Hacket.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
You know, Nate Hackett was a one year deal, and
prior to Sean we're talking about, you know, seven years
of widespread organizational ineptitude.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
And I do think you know your point about the roster.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
The roster's greatly exceeded everybody's expectations. I don't think it's
coincidental that that coincides with them getting a better coach
who's going to uh do a better job of developing
that talent.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
If you want to look over the drought, like when.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Of the the best years of Broncos personnel ben it's
the Vic Fangio era and the Sean Paydon era, when
they had experienced coaching staffs that were developing the talent
that was getting brought in by the front office.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
And that tends to be the way it goes.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
I mean, the problem is everybody wants the young guy,
but the young guys very rarely pan out. It's very
rare that you catch lightning at a bottle with a
Sean McVay or a Kyle Shanahan.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
That's very very rare.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
For every one of those you get, you get ten ackets.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
You know, first time head coaches that come in. You know,
Shane Steichen is an out offensive, wondercant and look at
the problems are the needy. They're trying to run him
out of town.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
It's hard and I think even the Super Bowl while
that is the bar, that's the bar he's setting for
himself coming into Denver, and I think that is important
to keep in mind. I also think that's a very
difficult bar to pull it up. I mean, Sean McVay
and Kyle Shanahan excellent coaches. I think you've been talking
about Kyle Shannon. Anyone would hire him the moment he
gets fired from the forty nine ers.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
If that were to happen this year, by the way,
he'll be back next year in San Francisco. If they
were stupid enough to do it, he'd have a million
calls instantly.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Same thing with Sean McVay.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Those two guys combined, and you know, at probably a
decade plus of head coaching combined have won Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
You know, It's just it's hard to get there.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah. I The thing about a coach like Sean Payton
or a coach like John Foxx is that if a
coach can get you to the playoffs, it's a whole
new season, right, you can get at the right time
and those kinds of things. So I appreciate that those
kind of coaches can do that. I appreciate that they
bring professionalism, any professional culture, back to the team. I

(33:10):
appreciate Sean paign for that. I don't want to sit
here and just constantly dog the guy. Don't but it's
interesting to watch over the last two weeks as sort
of the narrative has changed in broadcos Country, where people
are starting to realize some of the cracks in what
it is that you know they're Oh, by the way, yeah,
they got five thousand, fifty five hundred yards of a
year because they had a top five all time quarterback

(33:30):
in Drew Brees. I think Bo has come in this
year and he's checked the box.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
I am a starter in this league. Where the ceiling
is we don't know yet, but we know where the
floor is. The floor is starter in this league. Champaign's
vindicated on that.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
He gets to put that one in the dub column, right,
because that was his dude, that was the guy he
was up there strutting around on stage on Draft DA.
I tricked these other guys and a draft and JJ McCarthy,
this was our guy. He's vindicated on that. Champaign's absolutely
indicated on that. But the last weeks have shown a
problem that plagued him in New Orleans. Go back and
look at the coverage of Sean Payton.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
New Orleans. Dever doesn't owe Sean Payton anything New Orleans did.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
He brought him a sleeper a long suffering fan base
of Super Bowl devor to know him that he doesn't
have that same cachet here.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
And I'll tell you, These fans they've seen winning football.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
In fact, they saw winning football for a long long
time under Pat Bowling.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I don't think they're going to be as patience with
some of those mistakes as some others.

Speaker 5 (34:32):
We get back.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
I'm gonna get into some props for the coming week, players.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
That have incentives to be earned.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Things like that, some little hips, some little tips, hidden tricks,
things like that you can use to try to put
together your stuff. As well as looking forward to Kansas
City game, he Listenbarcos County Night, Can't Away,