Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Want to shout out our former colleague Brendan Kristal. It's
(00:02):
his birthday today. Happy birthday, Brandon Um. Let's see here
three one five, Long time listener, first time text her.
Can you please tell the Giants to call Bean if
Travis is available in Sovie. He meets Travis Hunter at three,
see Adam, Travis would be the Bills leaning into the
strength on defense. Remind him of his round two picks
always fall flat, so I even try. That's from Otto, Otto.
(00:23):
We appreciate you texting, honestly, man. I talked about a
little bit last week, and I think the Giants are
trying to look at a situation where they can wind
up with both Travis and should or possibly taking Travis
Hunter at three and then trading back into the first round,
maybe getting scha Door a little bit later if he
has a little bit of a fall.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We'll see how that goes with that.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
This time for the world renowned big board, Nick and
I ranked eight quarterbacks. In my case, they did nine
because I had a sleeper in there that we thought
were draftable.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
What we'll do, Nick, have you read your.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Eight, seven and six, and then we'll get into the
you know, I'll read mind and then we'll get into
the who we have is our top five? Kind of
work our way down for everybody to explain this. All
of these quarterbacks you considered draftable, correct, yes?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay? Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And then this is how you would rank them kind
of in in a vacuum, or how you would rank
them for the Broncos, because I just kind.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Of did it in a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Because all these guys have different skills, they're gonta fit
differently in different offenses, you know, So there there are like,
for instance, you wrout in what Tyler shug in Miami,
right right? You know, so like this is for me,
this is in a vacuum and not for any specific team.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
No it's not.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And yeah, it's definitely for just the vacuum. And Tyler
Song is the guy that I'm going to start out with. Okay,
I think he is a drafted player because you said
are they draftable, but not exactly specifying where I.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Would take that. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Three guys right, so talasaw sog is uh. You know
my number eight guy Will Howard from Ohio State.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I think somebody could be I think you could go
to the Raiders. I mean he's got the connection with
Chip Kelly. Obviously. Man, he's a project guy, but that's
one of them dudes that like you look at him
and you see the tolls and you're like, boy, if
somebody puts him all together, look out.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
See, that's the thing thing about it is that you know,
everyone in the league makes everything about the quarterback position,
not understanding that that quarterback is not successful unless he
has the appropriate team around him. And you think about
Will Howard and you know the Chip Kelly type of
similarities and familiar larties with the two. You put him
(02:30):
in that Raiders offense. Give him a year to sit
behind Geno. You put players around him. They already have
brag bauers that could change them eyes like being back
at Ohio saying, then if you're able to get you know,
Trevan Henderson or Kashawn Jenkins, you're.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Getting the band back together. Yes, essentially. Put so the
next up is Jylen Milroe.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, so you have at number eight, you have Tyler
shug yep. At number seven, you have Will Howard. At
number six, you have Jalen Milroe. Yes, we have the
same eight six doing we we do in the same
word or two.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Uh, I like remembers with I know we're at synergy
right now.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
As I uh, as I look at this, excuse me,
as I look at this, I will say I had
a sleeper quarterback that I put nine, Okay, that I
felt like his draft Well, he might not be draftable
as a quarterback though, And that's tim him a lot
out of Montana State, Okay, six foot two of wait,
a little undersized, but he is a four four to
two forty quarterback.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And if anybody could.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Make a four to four to two quarterback work and
find ways to deploy that on the field, it would
be one Sean Payton.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We've seen him do it with with Taysom Hill.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Not Taysom Hill's little bit bigger. He could play some
of these other positions. But I'll tell you what, Sean
Payton's always love finding these quarterbacks and trying to turn
him into something else. And this is a guy who
in his bills probably is the slot receiver in the NFL,
but you can use him in different ways. And uh
and then four four two forty times. He's got a
big arm. He can hit the he can hit the
deep ball. He probably could most favorably to Maxdugan you
(04:01):
remember out of TCU. Yes, kind of reminds you of
that kind of player, Like he's got more athleticism than
you think he does, but at the at the end
of the day, maybe not quite as polished a passer
and not quite the size you want for an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Okay, so that's my sleeper. Okay, But that.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Would mean is though, if the Broncos were to take
a flyer, you're taking that guy late, and now.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
You would have to have the patients to work with
that guy.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
In Carrie Kolb, the Broncos wide receiver coach, would have
to work with that person intensely to make sure.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That they know how to run ross.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Because for me, you don't want to sacrifice a roster
spot for an almost guy.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
But if you committed to say we're going to be.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Patient and this guy is going to be a project,
then it might make sense.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
He finished with twenty nine rushing touchdowns, two four and
seventy four career rushing yards. So he was a true
dual threat guy up there at Montana State. Obviously Montana
State's DEFAI level competition, but certainly was there was a
good guy. He was a scholar Athlete Awards second Team
All Big Sky in twenty twenty three, and then thirty
two hundred and forty one career passing yards, which is
(05:08):
tenth in school history as well. So he did he
did both. He's just a versatile athlete. That's a smart guy.
And for me, I'm like, all right, this is a
football player. I can find a place for you somewhere.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, that's when I played.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
That's what coaches would do back then, this guting department,
that's where guys like Mike Westalf was great at evaluating
guys saying, okay, well this guy played this in college,
how can we use him on special teams? And then
figuring out looking at his positions, actual position, where can
you actually build with and create opportunities for that player?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And you know, a quarterback that had the athleticism like
that that eventually got to move to a different position.
Host of your favorite podcast, Julian Edelman, host of The
Dudes on Dudes per Dudes.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And look what Julian Elderman was able to do, you
know with.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
That quarterback in college with he inverted to receiver, played
some corner as well, and reader.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Right, that's what we say about Kent State in Ohio.
Oh okay, okay. I was like, I can't read, can't write,
can't state.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
That?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Great?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
All right, well let's get into our top five here.
I'll go first on five and we'll alternate back and forth.
So at number five, I got Quinn yours.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, Kyle mccoran out a suc.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
We probably have those two footsof you know what, knowing
the two of us, I had that because we did
not look at each other before. I have Quen yours
number five. Painful truth about his twenty twenty four campaigns.
It probably cost him millions of dollars. You were looking
at a guy who a lot of people thought was
a potential first round pick. He's got you know, six,
two to ten, he's a little on thin side.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I just I never saw.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Anything this year that made me say, this guy's gonna
grow into being a stud at the NFL level. I
think he could absolutely get on a roster. I think
he could absolutely be a guy that you know, maybe
some spot starts in there or something like that, But
I don't see anything here that's that's telling me this
guy's a future star or starter in the league, a
consistent starter there, where as with a cord, who you know,
I have it for I see some stuff here like
(07:04):
McCord's not the not the strongest arm, the not the
greatest athlete, but you watch him play and when he's
in rhythm, he's command of an offense. I see a
guy like, Okay, if case Caingam can start games in
the NFL, Kyle McCorry can certainly start games in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Very true. And then you can always talk about.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Chase Daniels, right, I mean, if he could play in
any game in the NFL, then you know, you know,
Cayle McCory can definitely play.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But here's the thing. When I was looking at McCord,
everything you said.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
About him as far as being a passer, he is
for me a throwback player.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
He's a throwback player to the days of.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Dan Marino, right, just being that to Dan Foles being
a pure pocket passer.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, when I look at today's game and where it is.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Now, your quarterback better have the ability to move and
slide and navigate the pocket or you're gonna be in
trouble offensively. Yeah, And when you look at McCord as
far as rushing yards and I couldn't believe this.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's a minus sixty five.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, well the sacks, yes, but he's never I mean,
he's never even gonna be a mistake of for Bo Nicks.
He does not have that kind of He's a lot
closer to Joe Flacco.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It was than anything else.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And it may not have quite as strong as arm
as Flacco did, but he's got a quick release and
I think that's the big thing that's gonna benefit him
at the NFL of a colmac Cord gets it out quick.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
He does, And I don't want to if you are
a Syracuse fan, I don't want to insult the young man,
but I'm just being realistic as far as what I've.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Seen, he was surrounded by weapons.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well yeah, and once again, I'm not gonna hold that
against him, but I'm just looking at where the NFL
lives now and known as though you're just going to
need a little mobility to kind of help extend plays.
All of that is vital because here's what we do know,
no matter how great your offensive line is, at some point,
it's going to break down. Right, Someone's gonna trip, someone's
(08:51):
gonna fall, They're not going to count it the right way.
Someone's gonna have wrong or bad hand placement. Someone's gonna
get free. And when that happens, Yes, quick release would
definitely help. We've seen it with uh Drew Brees, Peyton Manning,
and Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
But at some point you're going to need to move
your feet shove.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
With those fees, like it's the Texas two step. If
you cannot do that, you're in trouble.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, And I think the comparison for him is Bo
without the athleticism, like if you if you, if you
take away Bow's legs, like that's kind of what this
guy is. You know, he's got enough arm strength to
to you know, to hit the deep ball and all
that kind of stuff. But that quick release and that's
that that you know, that kind of cerebral aspect.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Of the game. Maybe maybe love him who you got
at number three? Okay, Well, you know what, it was
a toss up.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Because between three and four I was going back and
forth between yours and Jackson Dart. Now, I know over
the past couple of weeks we've heard a lot of
dialogue about Jackson Dart, you know, trending upward.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Now, why is he trending outward. What what did he
do now?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
With no shoulders, shower pads or no live games, no
defenders coming after him, that has changed things opposed to what.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They were before we went into the combine. And for me,
it's just a lot of talk and maybe some agents.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Talking to a lot of the broadcast buddies to continue
to talk him up. But it's like the more we
hear about one guy, there's a tendency to think that
he's better than the rest. So I was a little
conflicted as far as three and four, but I can
easily say, you know, if you wanted to push me
putting Jackson Dart at three overclean yours. But I know
(10:29):
where I'm set at one and two.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay, I obviously rank Jackson Dart higher than you. I
have him three as well, But I have a much
higher opinion of Jackson Dart that I think you do,
because I think the aschelon between him and McCord and
yours is pretty vast. In fact, I have three quarterbacks
going in the first round that it would be Jackson
Dart Shadoor and I can't well or obviously those everybody
knows the names because we haven't talked about h yet,
but with Dart, I see Sam Bradford two point zero.
(10:52):
You know, not necessarily the most mobile guy does have
a good strong arm, but he's at his best and
he's kind of a topped out guy. It is like,
you're not gonna You're not gonna improve much. He's what
you see is what you get, right, You're not gonna
He's already kind of used to the pro game can
come up under Lane Kiffin.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He's already used to all that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
There's not really a ton of room for Jackson Dart
to kind of grow. You hope he gets more accurate,
but there's not really a ton of him to grow.
He's a little young twenty one, you know, just twenty
one years of age. That's something that could work in
his favor as far as this risees because there's this
perception that younger guys can grow.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I just my question is what is he gonna grow?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Well, there's still room for every single player to grow,
whether it's year one or year ten, right, But when
it comes to the quarterback position, for me, the first
thing is it's footwork. The footwork. It starts with the
footwork before it starts with anything else to arm anything
above the neck. It starts with the footwork. So every
quarterback can improve that way. Even bow Knicks going into
(11:52):
his second year, even though he played well.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I mean, he can improve on his footwork.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
And I know last year bow took it on the chin,
individuals saying well, bo is bailing on plays using his
legs far too frequently.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Than they want to.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
And I'm like, well, put your body back there and
let these edge rushes come after you.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
When something pops and the lane.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Opens and no one's opened down the field, you take
it because you want to keep the chains moving. So
I'm not gonna hold that against him, and we should
hold age against individuals, whether as a quarterback that's twenty
five and twenty seven or twenty one.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What people do though, Look you look at the Brandon
Whedon's and the Chris Winkis in the world, and they
come in old and they didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Really.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This past year was probably the best example for the
argument you're making in terms of older quarterbacks can learn things,
because you had Jaden Daniels, Bownix and Michael Pennix junior all.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Above the you know, the threshold of twenty three years old.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Twenty two to twenty three years old. It did nearly
twenty five years old coming into the league. And look
at what Bo and Jayden Daniels did. Pennis, you know,
maybe showed a flash or two, but you know, we're
gonna see this coming season what Pennix can do. I
think that's the I think in the way that college
football is now with the Nils, you're going to see
guys staying in school longer to get the reps, and
(13:06):
you're going to see older quarterbacks be more successful coming
out than the traditional Hey, we want the younger guys,
the Anthony Richardsons who didn't pan out, you know, those
kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
What it all depends on how you look at it
and what your perspective is. Because if you look at
a young guy, you just say, well, he's too young,
he's immature, right, But then.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Another coach may look say, well, I'd rather get that.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Young guy because he hasn't developed bad habits that we
have to actually break, right. And then someone can say, well,
looking at older guys, well, you know what, he's too
old or whatever, he's too said in his ways.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
We can't really change him.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Then another coach may say, well, then that's not the
proper way to look at it because he has experience, right,
he has experience, whereas a young guy doesn't have experience.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
So beauty is an eye of the beholder.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
We can actually make exceptions for things, or he could
just say how bad something is, So that all depends.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
All right, who you got at number two?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I got Shador at number two, say, and the reason
I have Shador at number two is because there's a
couple of things that Shador needs to definitely work on.
This is why it's gonna be vite an important where
he goes and whether he's surrounded by a great player
New York Giants. But I think him getting the ball
out of his hands quicker, that's going to be an issue.
(14:28):
But I understand why it was a problem when you
look at all these quarterbacks. Chardor for I think the
second year in a Row led college football in sacks
forty two sacks. But even though he sacked forty two times,
thirty seven touchdowns, ten interceptions. To me, that tells me
that he makes good decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
With the ball. He does, and in that's thege thing.
He's high football like you.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
He does have athleticism, you know, he's four six eight
and the forty, but that's I mean, he doesn't use
that for six eighth to go to go pick up yardage.
Just similar to you guys, remember Derek Carr coming out
I had you know, he ran the fast forward, but
Derek doesn't usually use that to go rip off fronts
hell by time with his legs.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I think the biggest disservice shoot or had was the
offense that he was in. It's really I mean, you
go back and you watch it, it's static stacked, you know,
fine Travis on third down that that offense. Like, with
all due respect to Pat Shermer, who we call punt
Schirmer on this show. We mean I'm speaking in the
in this singular wee you know, he's just not I mean,
(15:28):
the offense held him back.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I think he has the opportunity to be better at
the pro game.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
The question is how he's going to ingratiate himself to
a locker room. You know, he came up different, and
but the NFL might be the equalizer heroes. Everybody's got money, right,
so it might be a little bit it might be
a little bit different. The question is what's he going
to be like without his dad coaching him, and those
questions still exist. And then of course number one, we
we both have cam Ward cam and I don't think
it's particularly close. Cam's bigger, stronger, throws a better ball.
(15:55):
At this point, the question is is how far out
is he is he topped out? You know who cam
as a as a quarterback. We'll get a little bit
more of that here on the other side.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Finished this thing out. We gotta hit a break. It
was a Broncos country night Kawa. We were talking to
big More.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
We didn't get a chance to kind of get into
the cam Ward stuff, so I wanted to finish that.
Get any thoughts on Shador that you didn't get to,
and then we'll get to cam warder both of us
have ranked number one.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I know, I think it's Matt Housebag said something on
ESPN about his comp for Shador is more Andy Dalton,
and I'm not sure if I see he's giving me
Tim Tim hasselback.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Steere he's getting that. I don't agree with it. I
see where he's got because I mean, I've confidented Teddy
Bridgewater right, and Andy Dalton and Teddy Bridgewater a kind
of there's similar archetype quarterbacks where they've got athleticism, but
they don't really that's not their primary function. They use
it to buy time. Usually they'll pick up a little
bit with their legs, but not really. They don't have
the strongest arms in the world. You know that they
(16:56):
are high football IQ guys. I sort of get where
he's coming. I would not use Dalton is a comparison
for shud War though.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, Tim Hasselbag was a little wrong on that. And
even the Teddy comparison, I'll push back because I think
that Shador is more of an accurate quarterback than maybe
Teddy was.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And then I look at the other thing. It's ball
pen placement.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
And Andy wasn't, in my opinion, I mean, a great leader.
He was more like a fallback leader, as someone who
was thrust into that position as a leader only because
he played the quarterback position. And I don't know Andy,
and I'm just making this from, you know, thirty thousand
foot view. He didn't seem like he was going to
be one of those guys who can galvanize a team
(17:41):
and get them going. And I look at Shadoor based
on how he grew up his approach to the game.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I mean, the whole watch.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Thing that individuals have an issue with, I take no
issue with it. I'd rather my quarterback has some spunk
opposed to not having any at all.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, you know, Andy wasn't that guy. Andy was a
guy like, I'm gonna take what you give me. You
put great weapons around me, I'm gonna make it work.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And they did. They had lood aj Green over there.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean they had They had plenty of weapons
over there in that offense to kind of surrounding uh him,
And I think that's what it was. They just thought
of him kind of as a point guard, which again
I started get it with the shoot order thing.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But he's better than Andy Dalton was. He's a better
prospect than Andy Dalton, you know. And the one thing
I hate, you.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Know, those comps this time of year, because those comps
hurt kids coming out.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
They do the other part of these that doesn't make
sense because one of the biggest thing about playing quarterbacks
is what you are in the moment, right, what you
are in those big moments, and Andy Dalton was known
to fold in those big moments.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We all saw him in the playoffs, right with all.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
With all due respect to Andy Dalton, he was like
a you know, he was like an elementary kids, you know,
lemonade stand. You folded it up when you were done,
and and so I like, you know, shad Or, for
whatever you think of him, he didn't fold a bit.
The moment was never too big, you know. I mean
they made they lost games, you know whatever. But there
was never a moment where it was clear where it's
like the moments too big for him, where there was
(19:04):
with Andy Dalton it was.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
But more important. I look at the fact of the sack.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
How how many times Shador was sacked and he was
able to push through that, That for me says a lot.
And having quarterbacks that had that grit, had that little
fight or that little bite to him, To me, I
think it's vital and important. And I think for coaches,
for any coach, any owner, any NFL executives that cannot
(19:30):
deal with that, to me, that's a sign of that
person not being confident in themselves right right, Because if
you're confident in yourself, it doesn't make a difference what
kind of macho bravado a player comes in with. You
would be able to somewhat corral that and contain that.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And sometimes in certain games you want.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Your quarterback to beat that dude, like for me playing
against Tom Brady. Tom Brady was that dude because he
carried that attitude. He was always feisty. I remember bring
him fussing, yelling and screaming and swearing with Bill O'Brien.
You know, some people frowned upon it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
No, I want a guy who gives who Nicholas about
the situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think Tim hasselback.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I mean, with all due respect, and he played the
game at a high level, but you know, with all
due respect, I just.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Don't like, don't like that comparison. Tim was never that dude.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Well no, but he behind the dude behind the du
He's the wrong hassleback Rose though, and I got at
least tip my cap, you know, as far as that
kind of stuff goes. But yeah, I you don't know,
that's not the comparison. I was number one. Cam Ward
cam Ward. I think, you know, both of us think
far away him and one for me. The biggest thing
(20:41):
about cam Ward is that he just continues to grow. Right,
and so seeing what Bo and Jaydon Daniels were able
to do this past year as guys that were a
little bit older and you know, and able to able
to kind of grow, gave me a little bit more
faith in uh In cam Ward who who transferred several times,
cam Ward who was a wing tea quarterback back in
high school, unheralded recruit out of Texas. He went to
(21:03):
the f CS before he got into the you know,
before he got to the f BS, and and you know,
the transferred all over the place, and you know, he
just kept growing. And I love that. I love seeing
a guy who just get you know, you haven't seen
the all right, this is what I see, is what
I get. He just keeps growing. And that's one of
those things that I think is gonna endear him. I
think he's a fit for what they want to do
(21:24):
in Tennessee. Uh In that offense, you know, with Brian Callahan,
the question for him is going.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
To be, you know, what is the on ramp for
him in the NFL?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Do you They don't have anybody on that on that
roster that I think is somebody that can be a placeholder.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
He's kind of gonna have to jump into it a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And that's one of those things that I guess I
worry about a little is a pro You know, you
you've got Will Levis, Brandon Allen, and Tim Boyle. None
of those guys are competition for for cam Ward. And
you know we all saw what Will Levis wasn't last year.
We've Brandon Allen obviously, but we all saw him a
Denver here actually, and then Tim Boyle. How that guy
keeps getting jobs and what he has on. Tim Boyle
(22:07):
has never played at any level, any level in his
career where he has had more touchdowns than interceptions.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's a problem dating back to high school. That's the problem.
And you brought up something this really.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Interesting why I like cam and Shadoor at one and two.
And depending on what you talk about and how you
look at certain skill set, you can flop them. But
both of those guys had to prove something. Shador had
to prove himself coming from an HBCU where a lot
of NFL executives and talent evaluators didn't really respect that.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And then he went to see you and he proved it, right.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
He proved that he could grow as a player and
he can play on the power FOD level.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And when you think about Cam Cam was in that
same boat.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
When he was at Wazoo, no one really thought of
him that much, but him transferring to the University of
MIAI and me helped kind of put him someone on
on the radar.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I love.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Watching Shador and Caim go back and forth because they
both have the same quarterback coach and that jargon and
that expression or exchange of dialogue. It is something that
I grew up around, so I may be a little
biased to it, but to me, this is how you
get the best out of your players, talking.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
In that smack back and forth. And I wish both
of these guys a lot of success.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
But I will say this, I would love to see
Schardor go to the New York Giants, right. I put
a video up today, you can check it out at
Nick ferguson Underscore twenty five when where I lay out
the idea of why I think that should take place.
But I think that would be a great jumping off
point for Shador because of the two guys who are
(23:47):
over already there, and Russell and Jamis. And like you said,
if Cam is oh grant sed he has some of it.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Now.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
My relationship with Russ is good man Russ. Now a
lot of people don't notice he was one of the
quarterbacks that allow me to uh take a look into
how he ran. You know, Russ ran his enterprise, ran
his businesses, how he took care of his body, how
he trained, uh and what did he what did he
do to go into like his mental approach. Russe and
I had a very close friend who was no longer
(24:18):
with us, and Trevor Morat, so we were we were a.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Lot closer, uh when when Trevor was still with us,
but Trevor uh and I think Russell Russell speaking on this,
like he instilled a lot of great traits into both
of us.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Uh. And we continue to use.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Those traits, especially those traits in our leadership, in our
commitment to football. So that's where we have a similar
background in terms like our mentor approach can be very
similar because one of our mental coaches was was definitely
a life changing for him and very influential with me
as well.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And and I'll kind of double down on that because
recently I was at the NFLPA Leadership Counsel.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And Jamis was in one of our meetings.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, you know, as a current player and at the
time he was looking for a home, and just seeing
him interact with his family, seeing him interact with some
of the other players, and then just asking engaging questions the.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Way he did.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I mean, say what you want to say about James
and the whole crab legs, but he's grown from that.
And who better to help Chaudoor navigate this situation than
Russ and Jamis.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Two drastically different leadership styles that I think he could
learn from both of them. Learn from Jamis's outgoing, you
know kind of persona, that's the way that he's loved
in a locker room. And then Russell's work ethic. You know,
whatever else you think of Russell Wilson, you cannot knock
his work ethic. That doople out work anybody. And so
you know, I think that that's I think that I
think you get the nail on the head. That'd be
a great, be great learning opportunity.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
You know what, when I when I when I think
about that, I look about look at Cam and when
you look at why a lot of young quarterbacks fail
because there's not a lot of patience, there's not a
lot of support around him. But then who does that
young quarterback have to lead him. When I think about
cam in the fact that the Titans could if they
choose select him or even you know the Browns, who
(26:13):
was there to lead that young player Like you talk
about Boyle, Brendan Allen will Levis. I mean, Tennessee hasn't
really done well at selecting quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
They really haven't.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And that's part of my problem with and that's what
I said, Like, who's going to be there to be
the on ramp for him in the NFL? Tim Boyle
is like, with all due respect to Tim Boyle, who
has thrown more NFL passes than I ever will.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Right, Tim Boyle had.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Twelve touchdowns and twenty six interceptions in college at Yukon
and Eastern Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Wasn't like he was playing the heavyweights. Right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
He gets to the pros and he is five touchdowns
at thirteen interceptions for his pro career. Tim Boyle has
like is an interception machine who has never been good
and somehow continues to get jobs in the league. This
guy's been in the least to say twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Well, I mean, you need guys for cambodies, and you
know this dude's getting played.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
But once again and I've said this before.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You don't understand how valuable a backup quarterback is until
you actually need one.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Well, if you have him on your roster still, well,
you're just trying to do what you.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Can to kind of get by intol. Something happens. Now.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
For me, a perfect scenario would be cam Ward as
your starter. Maybe Will Levi is backing him up, because
there's certain things that Will Levis can do to help
him out.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But Will Levis.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Hadn't had a lot of success, so he can't really
help him from that standpoint. He can only show him.
Hey man, here are the mistakes that I made. Here's
a pressure that comes along with being a first round
draft choice in any team.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
But more importantly here in Nashville.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Let me help you out and be somewhat of a
sounding board for you in that particular way.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, I mean Will Levis to me, you got to
move on from Will Levis. If you draft cam Ward,
you got to move Will Levis.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Oh I can't keep him, Okay, so you move on
for Will? When the hell is your backup? Brandon Allen? I
guess do you do? You really want to?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I don't want to, but I mean you look at
this thing, and I'm like, who are you rolling with here?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
There's a few guys still out there. I guess you
could sign Carson Wentz.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
No, No, why can't the Titans still keep Will Levis?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean you can't. Why because you're demoting him? And
then I mean, what do you play the locker room?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
They kept Willis for a while, they traded him to
the Packers, that's right, but that that's because then they
go through camp and then they then they put it
on his you know, but you can't.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
I mean you think Will Levis is gonna split the
locker room. Like there's players on the Titans like, yeah,
he's our guy. Well, I mean there was a dude
my coffee, yeah, Will.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
But this is dude he went to battle with last year.
I mean you, I mean, it's a former starter.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It's it's tough to keep that rocket, but but it's
still great.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
To solidify your backup quarterback position.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
You just don't want to have any guy, I mean, your.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Back up like the like the Broncos had to choose
between Zach.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Wilson and Jared Stidham and now Sam Ailinger they signed
to Day.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
By the way, Sam Ailinger, Okay, whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
They kept Steadham for for a reason because the Broncos
figure they bring in another quarterback, they need someone to
throw as a camp body, right, But stead Of is
going to be the bona fide backup. So you have
a guy going into his second year in this offense,
who Sean Payton trusts enough because he chose him over
(29:21):
Zach Wilson.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So I would rather if I if I'm the Titans, but.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Regardless of whatever controversy you think that it may cause
or whatever, I would keep Will Levis as my backup
quarterback if they were to draft camp.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
That's tough, man. I mean, imagine this.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Imagine this right, your last year with the Broncos that
started that year, they break they draft of safety in
the first round.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And they tell you gonna play. He's not playing. We
want to. He's not playing. We want you to. We
want you to mentor this guy and be his backup.
I've done that before, right, I've done that in Houston.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I'm just saying when you were the starter, you were
the starter last year, and now they want Look, I've been.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
In that situation before and it's and.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It's tough to go from the front seat to the
back seat.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
It's tough, but for.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Me, I still help the guy that they were trying
to replace me with because I'm just that dude, because
I want to know that when I beat you out,
you know I was better than you.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So I'm not going to change you in that way.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You're a nice guy, like you're you're you know you're
you will do those guys and things.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Me, I'm sibotaging that guy.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
That's what happened to me earlier in my career, being
in certain places where veteran players would tell you the
wrong thing to position themselves to win the job.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Hey, coach likes being called be weezy.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
See I called that the sucer free Sunday and pro
the soccer free Sunday and pros.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I'm like, man, it's you know, like I'm not, you
gotta compete. I'm going out there to compete.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Doesn't sound everything you are You are working in sabotage.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You are I'm competing the agent of Sabotage'm also stack
in the deck.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
See this explains a lot about one Benjaminal brother.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
I just think it shows clearly the dichotomy between Ben
as a human and you make.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
A terrible human being Ben.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
Wants to beat someone when they have all the information,
all the tools that he had, and still prove that
he's better than them. And Ben wants to take any advantage,
be it fair or not.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I hate losing more than I like winning, and there
is a difference.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
But in the end, you guys are on the same team.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
That's bad. I've never got that philosophy. That's not how
I got down. I want to help you, right because
oh I want to help you be second on the
depth shop.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I want to help you what happens if somehow you
get injured.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
As a starter, you need that guy to go in
and and he can't. And I've watched the guy.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Dude, I was in Houston when he replaced me with
the guy, only to watch him go out there and
make mistake after mistake, and I felt sorry for him,
and I was just like, it was like, maybe they'll
call Nick to come in the game. And I'd been like,
wet's see what happens.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Let's see. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not I'm not
shot in front of guy. I'm not rooting for us, yes,
but I'm like when he's making those mistakes, but I.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Am casually walking in front of my head coach every
time that there's a mistake happens with that player. I
just happened to randomly be walking right in front of
my coach with my numbers flash right in front of him,
so he remembers, see, I'm here here, dog, I'm here.
If you need you need something, coach, I'm right here.
Every single the a coach, I'm right here. You need
to call him, I'm right here.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Sucking free Sundays, just saying, wow, we come back.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
We talk about these torpedo baskets more. The rule changes
coming out of the NFL ownership meeting of this Broncos
country night here.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Okay, wait, I know I'm better than this, right, I'm
just praying for the Lord to deliver me from pick sixes.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Go by Glue
Want to shout out our former colleague Brendan Kristal. It's
(00:02):
his birthday today. Happy birthday, Brandon Um. Let's see here
three one five, Long time listener, first time text her.
Can you please tell the Giants to call Bean if
Travis is available in Sovie. He meets Travis Hunter at three,
see Adam, Travis would be the Bills leaning into the
strength on defense. Remind him of his round two picks
always fall flat, so I even try. That's from Otto, Otto.
(00:23):
We appreciate you texting, honestly, man. I talked about a
little bit last week, and I think the Giants are
trying to look at a situation where they can wind
up with both Travis and should or possibly taking Travis
Hunter at three and then trading back into the first round,
maybe getting scha Door a little bit later if he
has a little bit of a fall.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We'll see how that goes with that.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
This time for the world renowned big board, Nick and
I ranked eight quarterbacks. In my case, they did nine
because I had a sleeper in there that we thought
were draftable.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
What we'll do, Nick, have you read your.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Eight, seven and six, and then we'll get into the
you know, I'll read mind and then we'll get into
the who we have is our top five? Kind of
work our way down for everybody to explain this. All
of these quarterbacks you considered draftable, correct, yes?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay? Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And then this is how you would rank them kind
of in in a vacuum, or how you would rank
them for the Broncos, because I just kind.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Of did it in a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Because all these guys have different skills, they're gonta fit
differently in different offenses, you know, So there there are like,
for instance, you wrout in what Tyler shug in Miami,
right right? You know, so like this is for me,
this is in a vacuum and not for any specific team.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
No it's not.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And yeah, it's definitely for just the vacuum. And Tyler
Song is the guy that I'm going to start out with. Okay,
I think he is a drafted player because you said
are they draftable, but not exactly specifying where I.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Would take that. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Three guys right, so talasaw sog is uh. You know
my number eight guy Will Howard from Ohio State.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I think somebody could be I think you could go
to the Raiders. I mean he's got the connection with
Chip Kelly. Obviously. Man, he's a project guy, but that's
one of them dudes that like you look at him
and you see the tolls and you're like, boy, if
somebody puts him all together, look out.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
See, that's the thing thing about it is that you know,
everyone in the league makes everything about the quarterback position,
not understanding that that quarterback is not successful unless he
has the appropriate team around him. And you think about
Will Howard and you know the Chip Kelly type of
similarities and familiar larties with the two. You put him
(02:30):
in that Raiders offense. Give him a year to sit
behind Geno. You put players around him. They already have
brag bauers that could change them eyes like being back
at Ohio saying, then if you're able to get you know,
Trevan Henderson or Kashawn Jenkins, you're.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Getting the band back together. Yes, essentially. Put so the
next up is Jylen Milroe.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, so you have at number eight, you have Tyler
shug yep. At number seven, you have Will Howard. At
number six, you have Jalen Milroe. Yes, we have the
same eight six doing we we do in the same
word or two.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Uh, I like remembers with I know we're at synergy
right now.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
As I uh, as I look at this, excuse me,
as I look at this, I will say I had
a sleeper quarterback that I put nine, Okay, that I
felt like his draft Well, he might not be draftable
as a quarterback though, And that's tim him a lot
out of Montana State, Okay, six foot two of wait,
a little undersized, but he is a four four to
two forty quarterback.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And if anybody could.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Make a four to four to two quarterback work and
find ways to deploy that on the field, it would
be one Sean Payton.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We've seen him do it with with Taysom Hill.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Not Taysom Hill's little bit bigger. He could play some
of these other positions. But I'll tell you what, Sean
Payton's always love finding these quarterbacks and trying to turn
him into something else. And this is a guy who
in his bills probably is the slot receiver in the NFL,
but you can use him in different ways. And uh
and then four four two forty times. He's got a
big arm. He can hit the he can hit the
deep ball. He probably could most favorably to Maxdugan you
(04:01):
remember out of TCU. Yes, kind of reminds you of
that kind of player, Like he's got more athleticism than
you think he does, but at the at the end
of the day, maybe not quite as polished a passer
and not quite the size you want for an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Okay, so that's my sleeper. Okay, But that.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Would mean is though, if the Broncos were to take
a flyer, you're taking that guy late, and now.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
You would have to have the patients to work with
that guy.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
In Carrie Kolb, the Broncos wide receiver coach, would have
to work with that person intensely to make sure.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That they know how to run ross.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Because for me, you don't want to sacrifice a roster
spot for an almost guy.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
But if you committed to say we're going to be.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Patient and this guy is going to be a project,
then it might make sense.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
He finished with twenty nine rushing touchdowns, two four and
seventy four career rushing yards. So he was a true
dual threat guy up there at Montana State. Obviously Montana
State's DEFAI level competition, but certainly was there was a
good guy. He was a scholar Athlete Awards second Team
All Big Sky in twenty twenty three, and then thirty
two hundred and forty one career passing yards, which is
(05:08):
tenth in school history as well. So he did he
did both. He's just a versatile athlete. That's a smart guy.
And for me, I'm like, all right, this is a
football player. I can find a place for you somewhere.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, that's when I played.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
That's what coaches would do back then, this guting department,
that's where guys like Mike Westalf was great at evaluating
guys saying, okay, well this guy played this in college,
how can we use him on special teams? And then
figuring out looking at his positions, actual position, where can
you actually build with and create opportunities for that player?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And you know, a quarterback that had the athleticism like
that that eventually got to move to a different position.
Host of your favorite podcast, Julian Edelman, host of The
Dudes on Dudes per Dudes.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And look what Julian Elderman was able to do, you
know with.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
That quarterback in college with he inverted to receiver, played
some corner as well, and reader.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Right, that's what we say about Kent State in Ohio.
Oh okay, okay. I was like, I can't read, can't write,
can't state.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
That?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Great?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
All right, well let's get into our top five here.
I'll go first on five and we'll alternate back and forth.
So at number five, I got Quinn yours.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, Kyle mccoran out a suc.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
We probably have those two footsof you know what, knowing
the two of us, I had that because we did
not look at each other before. I have Quen yours
number five. Painful truth about his twenty twenty four campaigns.
It probably cost him millions of dollars. You were looking
at a guy who a lot of people thought was
a potential first round pick. He's got you know, six,
two to ten, he's a little on thin side.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I just I never saw.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Anything this year that made me say, this guy's gonna
grow into being a stud at the NFL level. I
think he could absolutely get on a roster. I think
he could absolutely be a guy that you know, maybe
some spot starts in there or something like that, But
I don't see anything here that's that's telling me this
guy's a future star or starter in the league, a
consistent starter there, where as with a cord, who you know,
I have it for I see some stuff here like
(07:04):
McCord's not the not the strongest arm, the not the
greatest athlete, but you watch him play and when he's
in rhythm, he's command of an offense. I see a
guy like, Okay, if case Caingam can start games in
the NFL, Kyle McCorry can certainly start games in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Very true. And then you can always talk about.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Chase Daniels, right, I mean, if he could play in
any game in the NFL, then you know, you know,
Cayle McCory can definitely play.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But here's the thing. When I was looking at McCord,
everything you said.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
About him as far as being a passer, he is
for me a throwback player.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
He's a throwback player to the days of.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Dan Marino, right, just being that to Dan Foles being
a pure pocket passer.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, when I look at today's game and where it is.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Now, your quarterback better have the ability to move and
slide and navigate the pocket or you're gonna be in
trouble offensively. Yeah, And when you look at McCord as
far as rushing yards and I couldn't believe this.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's a minus sixty five.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, well the sacks, yes, but he's never I mean,
he's never even gonna be a mistake of for Bo Nicks.
He does not have that kind of He's a lot
closer to Joe Flacco.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It was than anything else.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And it may not have quite as strong as arm
as Flacco did, but he's got a quick release and
I think that's the big thing that's gonna benefit him
at the NFL of a colmac Cord gets it out quick.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
He does, And I don't want to if you are
a Syracuse fan, I don't want to insult the young man,
but I'm just being realistic as far as what I've.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Seen, he was surrounded by weapons.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well yeah, and once again, I'm not gonna hold that
against him, but I'm just looking at where the NFL
lives now and known as though you're just going to
need a little mobility to kind of help extend plays.
All of that is vital because here's what we do know,
no matter how great your offensive line is, at some point,
it's going to break down. Right, Someone's gonna trip, someone's
(08:51):
gonna fall, They're not going to count it the right way.
Someone's gonna have wrong or bad hand placement. Someone's gonna
get free. And when that happens, Yes, quick release would
definitely help. We've seen it with uh Drew Brees, Peyton Manning,
and Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
But at some point you're going to need to move
your feet shove.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
With those fees, like it's the Texas two step. If
you cannot do that, you're in trouble.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, And I think the comparison for him is Bo
without the athleticism, like if you if you, if you
take away Bow's legs, like that's kind of what this
guy is. You know, he's got enough arm strength to
to you know, to hit the deep ball and all
that kind of stuff. But that quick release and that's
that that you know, that kind of cerebral aspect.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Of the game. Maybe maybe love him who you got
at number three? Okay, Well, you know what, it was
a toss up.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Because between three and four I was going back and
forth between yours and Jackson Dart. Now, I know over
the past couple of weeks we've heard a lot of
dialogue about Jackson Dart, you know, trending upward.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Now, why is he trending outward. What what did he
do now?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
With no shoulders, shower pads or no live games, no
defenders coming after him, that has changed things opposed to what.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They were before we went into the combine. And for me,
it's just a lot of talk and maybe some agents.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Talking to a lot of the broadcast buddies to continue
to talk him up. But it's like the more we
hear about one guy, there's a tendency to think that
he's better than the rest. So I was a little
conflicted as far as three and four, but I can
easily say, you know, if you wanted to push me
putting Jackson Dart at three overclean yours. But I know
(10:29):
where I'm set at one and two.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay, I obviously rank Jackson Dart higher than you. I
have him three as well, But I have a much
higher opinion of Jackson Dart that I think you do,
because I think the aschelon between him and McCord and
yours is pretty vast. In fact, I have three quarterbacks
going in the first round that it would be Jackson
Dart Shadoor and I can't well or obviously those everybody
knows the names because we haven't talked about h yet,
but with Dart, I see Sam Bradford two point zero.
(10:52):
You know, not necessarily the most mobile guy does have
a good strong arm, but he's at his best and
he's kind of a topped out guy. It is like,
you're not gonna You're not gonna improve much. He's what
you see is what you get, right, You're not gonna
He's already kind of used to the pro game can
come up under Lane Kiffin.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He's already used to all that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
There's not really a ton of room for Jackson Dart
to kind of grow. You hope he gets more accurate,
but there's not really a ton of him to grow.
He's a little young twenty one, you know, just twenty
one years of age. That's something that could work in
his favor as far as this risees because there's this
perception that younger guys can grow.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I just my question is what is he gonna grow?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Well, there's still room for every single player to grow,
whether it's year one or year ten, right, But when
it comes to the quarterback position, for me, the first
thing is it's footwork. The footwork. It starts with the
footwork before it starts with anything else to arm anything
above the neck. It starts with the footwork. So every
quarterback can improve that way. Even bow Knicks going into
(11:52):
his second year, even though he played well.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I mean, he can improve on his footwork.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
And I know last year bow took it on the chin,
individuals saying well, bo is bailing on plays using his
legs far too frequently.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Than they want to.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
And I'm like, well, put your body back there and
let these edge rushes come after you.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
When something pops and the lane.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Opens and no one's opened down the field, you take
it because you want to keep the chains moving. So
I'm not gonna hold that against him, and we should
hold age against individuals, whether as a quarterback that's twenty
five and twenty seven or twenty one.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What people do though, Look you look at the Brandon
Whedon's and the Chris Winkis in the world, and they
come in old and they didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Really.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This past year was probably the best example for the
argument you're making in terms of older quarterbacks can learn things,
because you had Jaden Daniels, Bownix and Michael Pennix junior all.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Above the you know, the threshold of twenty three years old.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Twenty two to twenty three years old. It did nearly
twenty five years old coming into the league. And look
at what Bo and Jayden Daniels did. Pennis, you know,
maybe showed a flash or two, but you know, we're
gonna see this coming season what Pennix can do. I
think that's the I think in the way that college
football is now with the Nils, you're going to see
guys staying in school longer to get the reps, and
(13:06):
you're going to see older quarterbacks be more successful coming
out than the traditional Hey, we want the younger guys,
the Anthony Richardsons who didn't pan out, you know, those
kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
What it all depends on how you look at it
and what your perspective is. Because if you look at
a young guy, you just say, well, he's too young,
he's immature, right, But then.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Another coach may look say, well, I'd rather get that.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Young guy because he hasn't developed bad habits that we
have to actually break, right. And then someone can say, well,
looking at older guys, well, you know what, he's too
old or whatever, he's too said in his ways.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
We can't really change him.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Then another coach may say, well, then that's not the
proper way to look at it because he has experience, right,
he has experience, whereas a young guy doesn't have experience.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
So beauty is an eye of the beholder.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
We can actually make exceptions for things, or he could
just say how bad something is, So that all depends.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
All right, who you got at number two?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I got Shador at number two, say, and the reason
I have Shador at number two is because there's a
couple of things that Shador needs to definitely work on.
This is why it's gonna be vite an important where
he goes and whether he's surrounded by a great player
New York Giants. But I think him getting the ball
out of his hands quicker, that's going to be an issue.
(14:28):
But I understand why it was a problem when you
look at all these quarterbacks. Chardor for I think the
second year in a Row led college football in sacks
forty two sacks. But even though he sacked forty two times,
thirty seven touchdowns, ten interceptions. To me, that tells me
that he makes good decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
With the ball. He does, and in that's thege thing.
He's high football like you.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
He does have athleticism, you know, he's four six eight
and the forty, but that's I mean, he doesn't use
that for six eighth to go to go pick up yardage.
Just similar to you guys, remember Derek Carr coming out
I had you know, he ran the fast forward, but
Derek doesn't usually use that to go rip off fronts
hell by time with his legs.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I think the biggest disservice shoot or had was the
offense that he was in. It's really I mean, you
go back and you watch it, it's static stacked, you know,
fine Travis on third down that that offense. Like, with
all due respect to Pat Shermer, who we call punt
Schirmer on this show. We mean I'm speaking in the
in this singular wee you know, he's just not I mean,
(15:28):
the offense held him back.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I think he has the opportunity to be better at
the pro game.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
The question is how he's going to ingratiate himself to
a locker room. You know, he came up different, and
but the NFL might be the equalizer heroes. Everybody's got money, right,
so it might be a little bit it might be
a little bit different. The question is what's he going
to be like without his dad coaching him, and those
questions still exist. And then of course number one, we
we both have cam Ward cam and I don't think
it's particularly close. Cam's bigger, stronger, throws a better ball.
(15:55):
At this point, the question is is how far out
is he is he topped out? You know who cam
as a as a quarterback. We'll get a little bit
more of that here on the other side.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Finished this thing out. We gotta hit a break. It
was a Broncos country night Kawa. We were talking to
big More.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
We didn't get a chance to kind of get into
the cam Ward stuff, so I wanted to finish that.
Get any thoughts on Shador that you didn't get to,
and then we'll get to cam warder both of us
have ranked number one.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I know, I think it's Matt Housebag said something on
ESPN about his comp for Shador is more Andy Dalton,
and I'm not sure if I see he's giving me
Tim Tim hasselback.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Steere he's getting that. I don't agree with it. I
see where he's got because I mean, I've confidented Teddy
Bridgewater right, and Andy Dalton and Teddy Bridgewater a kind
of there's similar archetype quarterbacks where they've got athleticism, but
they don't really that's not their primary function. They use
it to buy time. Usually they'll pick up a little
bit with their legs, but not really. They don't have
the strongest arms in the world. You know that they
(16:56):
are high football IQ guys. I sort of get where
he's coming. I would not use Dalton is a comparison
for shud War though.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, Tim Hasselbag was a little wrong on that. And
even the Teddy comparison, I'll push back because I think
that Shador is more of an accurate quarterback than maybe
Teddy was.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And then I look at the other thing. It's ball
pen placement.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
And Andy wasn't, in my opinion, I mean, a great leader.
He was more like a fallback leader, as someone who
was thrust into that position as a leader only because
he played the quarterback position. And I don't know Andy,
and I'm just making this from, you know, thirty thousand
foot view. He didn't seem like he was going to
be one of those guys who can galvanize a team
(17:41):
and get them going. And I look at Shadoor based
on how he grew up his approach to the game.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I mean, the whole watch.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Thing that individuals have an issue with, I take no
issue with it. I'd rather my quarterback has some spunk
opposed to not having any at all.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, you know, Andy wasn't that guy. Andy was a
guy like, I'm gonna take what you give me. You
put great weapons around me, I'm gonna make it work.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And they did. They had lood aj Green over there.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean they had They had plenty of weapons
over there in that offense to kind of surrounding uh him,
And I think that's what it was. They just thought
of him kind of as a point guard, which again
I started get it with the shoot order thing.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But he's better than Andy Dalton was. He's a better
prospect than Andy Dalton, you know. And the one thing
I hate, you.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Know, those comps this time of year, because those comps
hurt kids coming out.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
They do the other part of these that doesn't make
sense because one of the biggest thing about playing quarterbacks
is what you are in the moment, right, what you
are in those big moments, and Andy Dalton was known
to fold in those big moments.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We all saw him in the playoffs, right with all.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
With all due respect to Andy Dalton, he was like
a you know, he was like an elementary kids, you know,
lemonade stand. You folded it up when you were done,
and and so I like, you know, shad Or, for
whatever you think of him, he didn't fold a bit.
The moment was never too big, you know. I mean
they made they lost games, you know whatever. But there
was never a moment where it was clear where it's
like the moments too big for him, where there was
(19:04):
with Andy Dalton it was.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
But more important. I look at the fact of the sack.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
How how many times Shador was sacked and he was
able to push through that, That for me says a lot.
And having quarterbacks that had that grit, had that little
fight or that little bite to him, To me, I
think it's vital and important. And I think for coaches,
for any coach, any owner, any NFL executives that cannot
(19:30):
deal with that, to me, that's a sign of that
person not being confident in themselves right right, Because if
you're confident in yourself, it doesn't make a difference what
kind of macho bravado a player comes in with. You
would be able to somewhat corral that and contain that.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And sometimes in certain games you want.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Your quarterback to beat that dude, like for me playing
against Tom Brady. Tom Brady was that dude because he
carried that attitude. He was always feisty. I remember bring
him fussing, yelling and screaming and swearing with Bill O'Brien.
You know, some people frowned upon it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
No, I want a guy who gives who Nicholas about
the situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think Tim hasselback.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I mean, with all due respect, and he played the
game at a high level, but you know, with all
due respect, I just.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Don't like, don't like that comparison. Tim was never that dude.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Well no, but he behind the dude behind the du
He's the wrong hassleback Rose though, and I got at
least tip my cap, you know, as far as that
kind of stuff goes. But yeah, I you don't know,
that's not the comparison. I was number one. Cam Ward
cam Ward. I think, you know, both of us think
far away him and one for me. The biggest thing
(20:41):
about cam Ward is that he just continues to grow. Right,
and so seeing what Bo and Jaydon Daniels were able
to do this past year as guys that were a
little bit older and you know, and able to able
to kind of grow, gave me a little bit more
faith in uh In cam Ward who who transferred several times,
cam Ward who was a wing tea quarterback back in
high school, unheralded recruit out of Texas. He went to
(21:03):
the f CS before he got into the you know,
before he got to the f BS, and and you know,
the transferred all over the place, and you know, he
just kept growing. And I love that. I love seeing
a guy who just get you know, you haven't seen
the all right, this is what I see, is what
I get. He just keeps growing. And that's one of
those things that I think is gonna endear him. I
think he's a fit for what they want to do
(21:24):
in Tennessee. Uh In that offense, you know, with Brian Callahan,
the question for him is going.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
To be, you know, what is the on ramp for
him in the NFL?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Do you They don't have anybody on that on that
roster that I think is somebody that can be a placeholder.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
He's kind of gonna have to jump into it a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And that's one of those things that I guess I
worry about a little is a pro You know, you
you've got Will Levis, Brandon Allen, and Tim Boyle. None
of those guys are competition for for cam Ward. And
you know we all saw what Will Levis wasn't last year.
We've Brandon Allen obviously, but we all saw him a
Denver here actually, and then Tim Boyle. How that guy
keeps getting jobs and what he has on. Tim Boyle
(22:07):
has never played at any level, any level in his
career where he has had more touchdowns than interceptions.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's a problem dating back to high school. That's the problem.
And you brought up something this really.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Interesting why I like cam and Shadoor at one and two.
And depending on what you talk about and how you
look at certain skill set, you can flop them. But
both of those guys had to prove something. Shador had
to prove himself coming from an HBCU where a lot
of NFL executives and talent evaluators didn't really respect that.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And then he went to see you and he proved it, right.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
He proved that he could grow as a player and
he can play on the power FOD level.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And when you think about Cam Cam was in that
same boat.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
When he was at Wazoo, no one really thought of
him that much, but him transferring to the University of
MIAI and me helped kind of put him someone on
on the radar.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I love.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Watching Shador and Caim go back and forth because they
both have the same quarterback coach and that jargon and
that expression or exchange of dialogue. It is something that
I grew up around, so I may be a little
biased to it, but to me, this is how you
get the best out of your players, talking.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
In that smack back and forth. And I wish both
of these guys a lot of success.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
But I will say this, I would love to see
Schardor go to the New York Giants, right. I put
a video up today, you can check it out at
Nick ferguson Underscore twenty five when where I lay out
the idea of why I think that should take place.
But I think that would be a great jumping off
point for Shador because of the two guys who are
(23:47):
over already there, and Russell and Jamis. And like you said,
if Cam is oh grant sed he has some of it.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Now.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
My relationship with Russ is good man Russ. Now a
lot of people don't notice he was one of the
quarterbacks that allow me to uh take a look into
how he ran. You know, Russ ran his enterprise, ran
his businesses, how he took care of his body, how
he trained, uh and what did he what did he
do to go into like his mental approach. Russe and
I had a very close friend who was no longer
(24:18):
with us, and Trevor Morat, so we were we were a.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Lot closer, uh when when Trevor was still with us,
but Trevor uh and I think Russell Russell speaking on this,
like he instilled a lot of great traits into both
of us.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Uh. And we continue to use.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Those traits, especially those traits in our leadership, in our
commitment to football. So that's where we have a similar
background in terms like our mentor approach can be very
similar because one of our mental coaches was was definitely
a life changing for him and very influential with me
as well.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And and I'll kind of double down on that because
recently I was at the NFLPA Leadership Counsel.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And Jamis was in one of our meetings.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, you know, as a current player and at the
time he was looking for a home, and just seeing
him interact with his family, seeing him interact with some
of the other players, and then just asking engaging questions the.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Way he did.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I mean, say what you want to say about James
and the whole crab legs, but he's grown from that.
And who better to help Chaudoor navigate this situation than
Russ and Jamis.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Two drastically different leadership styles that I think he could
learn from both of them. Learn from Jamis's outgoing, you
know kind of persona, that's the way that he's loved
in a locker room. And then Russell's work ethic. You know,
whatever else you think of Russell Wilson, you cannot knock
his work ethic. That doople out work anybody. And so
you know, I think that that's I think that I
think you get the nail on the head. That'd be
a great, be great learning opportunity.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
You know what, when I when I when I think
about that, I look about look at Cam and when
you look at why a lot of young quarterbacks fail
because there's not a lot of patience, there's not a
lot of support around him. But then who does that
young quarterback have to lead him. When I think about
cam in the fact that the Titans could if they
choose select him or even you know the Browns, who
(26:13):
was there to lead that young player Like you talk
about Boyle, Brendan Allen will Levis. I mean, Tennessee hasn't
really done well at selecting quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
They really haven't.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And that's part of my problem with and that's what
I said, Like, who's going to be there to be
the on ramp for him in the NFL? Tim Boyle
is like, with all due respect to Tim Boyle, who
has thrown more NFL passes than I ever will.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Right, Tim Boyle had.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Twelve touchdowns and twenty six interceptions in college at Yukon
and Eastern Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Wasn't like he was playing the heavyweights. Right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
He gets to the pros and he is five touchdowns
at thirteen interceptions for his pro career. Tim Boyle has
like is an interception machine who has never been good
and somehow continues to get jobs in the league. This
guy's been in the least to say twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Well, I mean, you need guys for cambodies, and you
know this dude's getting played.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
But once again and I've said this before.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You don't understand how valuable a backup quarterback is until
you actually need one.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Well, if you have him on your roster still, well,
you're just trying to do what you.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Can to kind of get by intol. Something happens. Now.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
For me, a perfect scenario would be cam Ward as
your starter. Maybe Will Levi is backing him up, because
there's certain things that Will Levis can do to help
him out.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But Will Levis.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Hadn't had a lot of success, so he can't really
help him from that standpoint. He can only show him.
Hey man, here are the mistakes that I made. Here's
a pressure that comes along with being a first round
draft choice in any team.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
But more importantly here in Nashville.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Let me help you out and be somewhat of a
sounding board for you in that particular way.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, I mean Will Levis to me, you got to
move on from Will Levis. If you draft cam Ward,
you got to move Will Levis.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Oh I can't keep him, Okay, so you move on
for Will? When the hell is your backup? Brandon Allen? I
guess do you do? You really want to?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I don't want to, but I mean you look at
this thing, and I'm like, who are you rolling with here?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
There's a few guys still out there. I guess you
could sign Carson Wentz.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
No, No, why can't the Titans still keep Will Levis?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean you can't. Why because you're demoting him? And
then I mean, what do you play the locker room?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
They kept Willis for a while, they traded him to
the Packers, that's right, but that that's because then they
go through camp and then they then they put it
on his you know, but you can't.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
I mean you think Will Levis is gonna split the
locker room. Like there's players on the Titans like, yeah,
he's our guy. Well, I mean there was a dude
my coffee, yeah, Will.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
But this is dude he went to battle with last year.
I mean you, I mean, it's a former starter.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It's it's tough to keep that rocket, but but it's
still great.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
To solidify your backup quarterback position.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
You just don't want to have any guy, I mean, your.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Back up like the like the Broncos had to choose
between Zach.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Wilson and Jared Stidham and now Sam Ailinger they signed
to Day.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
By the way, Sam Ailinger, Okay, whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
They kept Steadham for for a reason because the Broncos
figure they bring in another quarterback, they need someone to
throw as a camp body, right, But stead Of is
going to be the bona fide backup. So you have
a guy going into his second year in this offense,
who Sean Payton trusts enough because he chose him over
(29:21):
Zach Wilson.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So I would rather if I if I'm the Titans, but.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Regardless of whatever controversy you think that it may cause
or whatever, I would keep Will Levis as my backup
quarterback if they were to draft camp.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
That's tough, man. I mean, imagine this.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Imagine this right, your last year with the Broncos that
started that year, they break they draft of safety in
the first round.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And they tell you gonna play. He's not playing. We
want to. He's not playing. We want you to. We
want you to mentor this guy and be his backup.
I've done that before, right, I've done that in Houston.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I'm just saying when you were the starter, you were
the starter last year, and now they want Look, I've been.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
In that situation before and it's and.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It's tough to go from the front seat to the
back seat.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
It's tough, but for.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Me, I still help the guy that they were trying
to replace me with because I'm just that dude, because
I want to know that when I beat you out,
you know I was better than you.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So I'm not going to change you in that way.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You're a nice guy, like you're you're you know you're
you will do those guys and things.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Me, I'm sibotaging that guy.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
That's what happened to me earlier in my career, being
in certain places where veteran players would tell you the
wrong thing to position themselves to win the job.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Hey, coach likes being called be weezy.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
See I called that the sucer free Sunday and pro
the soccer free Sunday and pros.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I'm like, man, it's you know, like I'm not, you
gotta compete. I'm going out there to compete.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Doesn't sound everything you are You are working in sabotage.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You are I'm competing the agent of Sabotage'm also stack
in the deck.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
See this explains a lot about one Benjaminal brother.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
I just think it shows clearly the dichotomy between Ben
as a human and you make.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
A terrible human being Ben.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
Wants to beat someone when they have all the information,
all the tools that he had, and still prove that
he's better than them. And Ben wants to take any advantage,
be it fair or not.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I hate losing more than I like winning, and there
is a difference.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
But in the end, you guys are on the same team.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
That's bad. I've never got that philosophy. That's not how
I got down. I want to help you, right because
oh I want to help you be second on the
depth shop.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I want to help you what happens if somehow you
get injured.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
As a starter, you need that guy to go in
and and he can't. And I've watched the guy.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Dude, I was in Houston when he replaced me with
the guy, only to watch him go out there and
make mistake after mistake, and I felt sorry for him,
and I was just like, it was like, maybe they'll
call Nick to come in the game. And I'd been like,
wet's see what happens.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Let's see. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not I'm not
shot in front of guy. I'm not rooting for us, yes,
but I'm like when he's making those mistakes, but I.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Am casually walking in front of my head coach every
time that there's a mistake happens with that player. I
just happened to randomly be walking right in front of
my coach with my numbers flash right in front of him,
so he remembers, see, I'm here here, dog, I'm here.
If you need you need something, coach, I'm right here.
Every single the a coach, I'm right here. You need
to call him, I'm right here.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Sucking free Sundays, just saying, wow, we come back.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
We talk about these torpedo baskets more. The rule changes
coming out of the NFL ownership meeting of this Broncos
country night here.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Okay, wait, I know I'm better than this, right, I'm
just praying for the Lord to deliver me from pick sixes.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Go by Glue
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