April 7, 2026 • 32 mins
Mark Larson in for Lou Penrose talks to astronaut Fred Hayes about Artemis II and Apollo 13.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Lo Penrose is not here, Mark Larson. We are live
in San Diego in every sense of the word. Good
to have you with us here, just those of you
following along, maybe a little confusion.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Let me help Right.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Here on news radio six hundred Coco, we have the
new lineup now at three o'clock. In this hour, it's
Lou Penrose. Five o'clock, it's Leland Conway. Seven o'clock. It's
yours truly, Mark Larson. You can find me online at
Coca dot com or Mark Larson dot com. M A
R K L A R S O N. But you know,
it's still spring break. Spring Break used to be like
two weeks around Easter, and then somehow the world decided
(00:45):
that we don't do Easter because it's too churchy. I
had no problem with that, But so Easter, well, spring
break goes on for like two months.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right. So here's the story. I will start today.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I believe that today and tomorrow Leland Conway decided he
had a desperate need to go vacation with Penrose in
the Bahamas.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, who am I to judge? I'm not going to
I'm in California for fifty years.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I'm not going to judge that but it's a short
trip and Leland's going to be back day after tomorrow.
So today you have me and at seven o'clock tonight
a special early edition of Coast to Coast with George Nori,
which is appropriate because we've had all this intergalactic fund
with Artemis two and I just love this. And you
know if you if you know me, you may know
(01:30):
me here Mark Larson on Cogo that I love things
that fly, love things that go into space. That's I've
been chairman of the Air and Space Museum now for
fourteen terms. Big splash down party at the museum on
Friday night that as you've been hearing here on Cogo
News today. The only wrinkle is the weather's going to
turn to Crapola late Friday, but especially Saturday. So there
(01:52):
are some parameters. We'll tell you what those are. I
think it's going to go go well, and Orian Command
Module is going to splash down off the coast of
San Diego and the USS Mirtha is going to go
out and retrieve them, and that'll be right around in
the five o'clock hour on Friday.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So it's been a big week for America.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
This is where my friends on the center left and
far left and Loopyville will say, how can you possibly
say it's been a good week for America. Let's see,
we didn't have anybody die, thank god, Capital g Easter weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
In terms of the you.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Know, our airman shot down by an lucky shot. And
by the way, let me point this out. We found
out today, you know on certain terms that I was
right on Friday on our show here on KGO Mark
Larson's seven o'clock in the new lineup. I know we
should sell programs se well, go to the cogo dot com.
You'll find out who's unwhere. But I'm here today and
New Orle from three to seven. My first thought was
(02:54):
in that southwestern part Iran, and I've been over to
the neighborhood more than once. Thought was, okay, that's butting
up against Iraq and a little bit of Kuwait. It
was probably some RPG rocket propelled grenades, some shoulder launched conveyance,
that's what it was. In other words, they got lucky.
(03:15):
I remember being in Afghanistan. We did the first groundbreaking reports,
the first long form talk shows from that part of
the world back in two thousand and five.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
In two thousand and six.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Remember coming back from Cobble, Afghanistan after being over there
for a long period of time, came back here about.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
This time of the year. They was April, and the world.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
The CNN, the usual bunch freaking out that, oh, the
Taliban hit a rocket into Cobble. And because of the
trips I had over there, I got to know the
Minister of Defense in other words, Afghanistan's Donald Rumsfeld back
in the day, Raheem Wardock.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And so I went through a couple of contacts. I
got him on the show.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
We aired a here on Coco back then, and I said,
the world's freaking out about this.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I rocket went into Cobble.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
He said, Hey, we fought back in the days of
the Mujahadeen and the Taybah back in the you know,
once in a while they got lucky.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So they got lucky.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And today the big buzz is Okay, Trump's got this
deadline five o'clock our time today, less than two hours away. Well,
he says, the whole civilization will die tonight.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
If you if you look at some of the usual
places Drudge Report, for example, which used to be sent
or right or far right, depending on what Matt Drudge
was doing. He sold that long ago to people who
don't think like he does. So they've got bold font
all caps, red letters, Trump unhinged, whole civilization will die tonight,
(04:51):
nuke warning good news soon. Iran calls for human chains
cyber attacks hit USA. Well, hopefully not. But I do
know this, the religious zealot lunatics in Iran are full
of crap and they love just just laying it out
(05:13):
like they know. The reports today we had as the
internet's been down, there's a one percent it's been down
for some time. One percent of the population in Iran
has any connectivity at all. So Iran today says we
are cutting off all communication with the US. We kind
of cut that off for you. This is not a
great mystery except for people who are cheering for our military.
(05:36):
This is a big deal for those of us in
San Diego, especially with the Navy, with the Marines.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
All branches are represented here. But this is a.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Big local story, and you got a lot of local
families on itge We have the USS Abraham Lincoln over there,
tr the USS Theodore Roosevelt headed out of port here
on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
You know, the Marine Expeditionary Unit out of out of
Miramar and out of Camp Helden. They're all busy right now.
I love today heading into the station, seeing helicopter activity
over the fifty two out of Miramar, MCS Miramar, and
they had a lot of the jets over there as well.
I like seeing our tax dollars at work because everybody's prepared.
(06:19):
But I have really disturbed, aren't you with how people
some people blest their hearts, seem to be cheering for
us to screw up, for the US to somehow fail.
I guarantee you there are some people, and many of
them may be or some maybe not many. Some of
(06:42):
them may be in the United States Congress and the
House or sentateside hoping something goes wrong with art of US.
Canse you know what they watch all these big victories
in space. We got that going on. We got the
rescue of our airmen that went down with a lucky
shot from a rocket propelled grenade, a shoulder launched missile
of sorts. You got the bravado from the the Iyahtola wannabes,
(07:06):
the potentates and the impotentates. You hear today apparently there's
a report out that the Iyahtola this is the son
of the guy who got taken out not for dinner,
but to the seventy two virgins. I wonder how that's
working out. Have a good time in hell. I'm just
saying eight hundred and six hundred cogo you disagree with it,
love to hear from you, Mark Larson and for Lou Penrose,
(07:28):
these radio six hundred cogo or I open the eyeheart
app you find cogo, tap the red talkback Mike can
send us a voice message. But this is really weird
to me. We have a lot of people, including members
of Congress. Maybe you love to hear from you, maybe
friends of yours who just seem to be hating the
fact that there's any sort of success under the Orange Man,
(07:50):
because Orange Man is bad.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Orange Man bad.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And I love how some of my closest friends get
on me and say, well, how do you defend this?
My job is not to defend what Donald Trump does
on social media. Much of it is indefensible. But I
also know he's talking, not like you think he's talking.
He's talking with the big blowhards in Iran. He's speaking
their language. Now we'll find out. And you've got to
hand it to the pr apparatus in Iran. They're big
(08:17):
at taking whatever has happened, like we have no power
of no communications, so they leak out the word. Well,
Iran says they've cut off all communications. They didn't have
an option. We cut it off for them. And by
the way, all the talk today and over the weekend,
Trump's committing war crimes that can be debated. He's got
(08:39):
a lot of good legal counsel, has a Pentagon. None
of this is without any sort of due diligence. And
Trump's doing what Reagan did. He's not Ronald Reagan, but
he's doing what Reagan did. When they said, you know,
the Soviets, mister Reagan think that you're crazy. They think
you're trigger happy, you're a cowboy to go on and
(09:00):
clear that up, and Reagan said, will let them think
I'm crazy, or something to that effect. That gave him
the advantage. Trump's playing the same game in the time
of social media. You may not like it, I may
not like it, but so far it's been pretty damn effective,
whether it's on the battlefield or in space. And they said, oh,
(09:25):
Trump's doing Trump's doing war crimes. Well, presidents before have
done similar things. They were not war crimes. It's because
he's Trump. But Iran's actually doing war crimes because they've
been putting out innocent women and kids in human chains
around military sites. This is what they do. Iraq did
(09:47):
this too, and I'm not going to debate the Iraq thing.
The weapons of mass destruction. Both Republicans and Democrats bought that.
A lot of that wasn't true. It is what it is.
Can't go back in the time machine, but it is
against international law to put human beings in harm's way
around military sites because they know exactly what they're doing.
(10:10):
The US is not saying let's go kill civilians. That's
not what Trump means when he says a whole civilization
will die tonight.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
He's talking the historical sense.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Iran as it was under Persia, what it could be,
what has been for forty seven years. And don't say, well, Larson,
you're being a warmarger. I'm giving you some perspective with
some knowledge of being among well, the only talk show
host I know certainly here in this region has actually
been over there to that region a few times.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
The culture is different.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
They want to see who has the huevos and the
spine to stand up against this stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We'll find out. Yeh, Saloon Penrose show.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
We are live in San Diego, Mark Larson here, good
to have you with us today and tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I'm here for not only Lou, but for Leland.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Conway, Kevin Finnerity, Mister Finnity is here running controls. He
hands it off to Silverfang, also known as Tim Piles
at five and the new lineup on Cogo that began
just last week. We're just making sure we're testing you,
to make sure you remember it's normally or abnormally three
pm weekdays. Lou Penrose, who celebrated by almost immediately going
(11:31):
on vacation. It was tough scheduled Gin Know and then
Leland Conway, my former partner the last couple of years
on Conway and Larson at He's on at five o'clock
and then I'm on at seven.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Then we have Coast to Coast with George new Norrie
and all.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
The intergalactic creatures living under your bed. So tonight we
will bring in a special earlier edition of Coast to
Coast because with Artimists going on and the return to
San Diego off the coast splashed down on Friday. It
seems like a good bit of symmetry here, so today
and tomorrow, because well, here's the inside story. Leland Conway
(12:06):
loves Lou Penrose so much that he has gone off
to spend some time quality time with Lou. I think
Lou's family's there, but you know they're understanding, and they'll
be on the beach in the Bahamas. We're in a
bit of prophetic something. You might have heard this talked
about even this week yesterday. Lou got down there on
(12:27):
Good Friday, and because it was Good Friday, there was
no alcoholic liquid there. So maybe Leland's going down to
bring him a little something, deliver martiniz or what have you.
So it'll be a quick trip of hot humidity, all
of that. So Conway, after opening up his pores with Penrose,
will be back with us day after tomorrow. So I'm
(12:49):
here today from three to seven. There will not be
a test on this, but three to seven today and
same thing tomorrow tomorrow on the show. By the way,
we're going to have the Secretary of Energy here Chris
Wright at five thirty five. Kind of a timely thing,
especially if we have all hell break loose with Iran
and the Mullahs tonight, the potentates and impotentates about five o'clock.
(13:13):
We have a lot of fossil fuel energy in California,
and there's been this battle, as you know, between people
in my view with pragmatic views of oil and gas
and how California can be better because we're standing over
by some estimates, as much oil as you have in
Saudi Arabia here in California. So we'll talk to the
Secretary of Energy, mister Wright tomorrow at five thirty five.
(13:37):
Jim Desmond's going to join us five thirty five today.
County Supervisor is also running for Congress and coming up
after the bottom of the hour because in addition to
military victories, thank god, so far huge San Diego story.
We have had every minute of it so far, other
than the toilet problem. I mean really Artemis two doing
(13:58):
so phenomenally well, and coming back to San Diego sometime
around probably around five thirty ish, somewhere in the five
o'clock hour on Friday, if the weather is good here, so.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There's some variables.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So next hour at three thirty five, right after the
bottom of the hour, news update, We will talk with
Fred Hayes, who is the only living crew member of
Apollo thirteen back in nineteen seventy. In fact, coming up
this Saturday, that's the what would that be the fifty
sixth anniversary of Apollo thirteen launching the Moon? And it
(14:30):
was all going well till it wasn't and they had
the oxygen tank that blew. Did that really happen? Just
watch the movie with Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks played Jim Lovell,
and Jim Lovell yesterday was the voice that they played.
I didn't know he did this. He was one of
my best friends for years. He passed away last August,
but back in June he recorded for the Artemis crew
(14:52):
this message, and we cover that here on Cogo.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I said, oh, I'm Jim Lovell.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
He was ninety seven when he recorded that and just
starting to slow down. I talked to him on a
regular basis. Didn't know he did that. So the wake
up call yesterday morning this made me cry. Wake up
call yesterday morning was I After they played some uplifting music,
goes this Jim Lovel Paulow thirteen. I'll paraphrase that. He said,
(15:18):
welcome to my neighborhood, and he went through saying when
we were here, when Frank Borman and Bill Anderson and
I were here on Apollo eight back in nineteen sixty
eight doing a similar fly around. Although Poulo eight did
orbits around the moon, Artemis two did not because they
were testing a lot of different things. But to hear
(15:38):
Jim and he was even though he sounds slow if
you heard some of the coverage here on Cogo again,
there was last June. He passed away August seventh, and
I thought he'd make it to one hundred. But anyway,
that was so moving, so meaningful, and he always he
and all the people who either went to the moon
on Apollo and he wasn't able to be moonwalker was weird.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
For years, he would say he kind of felt guilty.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
He didn't say it exactly that way, but it was
like he felt they all felt like maybe they were
a little off because they didn't make it, because they
had a problem. Well, that the whole Apollo thirteen story
was such a great historical record of American exceptionalism, the
hundreds of thousands of men and women on the ground
who figured it out on the ground in places like Houston,
(16:28):
up and downy everywhere else and got them back safely.
One of the great stories in American space exploration history.
So yesterday I heard a lot about this. Artemists went
out there and beat the record. They've now gone beyond
where any human beings have gone in space, four thousand
or so miles beyond where Apollo thirteen went. And that
was when Jim Lovell was the commander and Fred Hayes,
(16:54):
and they had Swigert. Fred Hayes was the lunar mogical pilot.
He'll join us at three thirty five in the next
half hour. I mean, it was phenomenal. But wait, do
you hear how Fred will explain how far? Because people say, wow,
they beat the record, The record wasn't that big, and
the record was we need as much energy because we're
out of power, can't get to a power captain. We
(17:15):
got to swing around the moon here and hope we
get back to Earth. They did that story and a
lot of other perspective you will not hear anywhere else
coming up with the legendary astronaut Fred Hayes of Apollo thirteen.
It's Mark Larson here for lou Penrose News Radio six
(17:36):
hundred cogo. Penrose off this week, returning soon and Leland
Conway and in the five o'clock hour I'll be covering.
So I'm basically here till seven o'clock and glad you're
here with US News Radio six hundred cogo. We're watching
closely the five o'clock Pacific time deadline when the president,
you may remember the name Donald J. Trump, says that
(17:57):
all hell's going to break loose. I'm just paraphrasing here
as we've been reporting. He said, the whole civilization will
die tonight. Now this keep in mind in Trump speak,
that doesn't mean every innocent individual is going to be
killed off.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
This is an.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Iranian mulla back and forth iatola talk to speak the
language like earlier today when with this deadline looming, you
had whoever's talking in around now we don't know who
it is, said, well, we've cut off all communications with
the US. Now we cut off the communications because only
one percent of the country has any internet connection at all.
(18:34):
So we'll see what happens at five o'clock our time.
So obviously we're monitoring that, being a big military city
as we are, and throughout this whole region, News Radio
six hundred cogo live of the iHeartRadio app. There are
so many people who, it seems to me, are trying
to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in all
of this, with the big rescue of American airmen over
(18:58):
the weekend, the military, the best, the brightest, the history
making moves like every minute. I'm not exaggering that in
space with Artemis two and Artemis of course coming back
to splash down, we anticipate somewhere in the five o'clock
hour our time on Friday, off the coast of San Diego.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So we've got some big things going on.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And if you can separate bias you may have about
individual political figures, just talk about American exceptionalism.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Let's park on that for a while. A lot of talk.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Was made in the last well through this whole mission,
especially yesterday, that Artemis two had beaten the record. They've
gone farther beyond where any human beings have gone. They
broke the record set by Apollo thirteen back in nineteen seventy.
I think, well, that's good, that's good history. I'm glad
they're talking about Apollo thirteen and the whole Apollo program,
(19:57):
and I like how Isaac min at the at NASA,
the head of NASA now is building on the shoulders
of the pioneers. You know, let's find out from somebody
who was actually there as opposed to theorizing.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Fred Hayes, former NASA.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Astronaut, engineer, fighter pilot, US Marine Corps and US Air
Force test pilot, one of twenty four astronauts for Apollo
to reach the Moon, and Lunar module pilot Apollo thirteen. Hey, Fred,
I'm good to have you here. Thanks for joining us
on a obviously a very busy day. So you and
I were talking off the air last couple of days
about this, this whole Apollo thirteen record, and then you
(20:32):
reminded me, like, Okay, you didn't go to like three
thousand miles with Jim Lovell and the crew on Apollo thirteen,
three thousand miles above the surface. You were more than
most had gone, but you didn't go as far as
they went yesterday.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Right now, now, by far, the normal orbits around the
Moon for all Apollo missions was sixty miles, and our
short pass around the backside was at about one hundred
and thirty one point something miles, So we're only over
sixty miles higher than all the flights had gone. So
(21:07):
I think someone had that posted as a world record
or whatever, just to make us feel better because we
didn't get the land.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Did you have any inkling that Jim Lovell, our good friend,
your commander on Apollo thirteen was and it was also
there an Apollo eight, even more significantly because that was
most similar to this particular mission. But did you know
he had recorded that audio from back in June, a
couple months before he passed.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Well, I didn't know the exact words, but I knew
that with his son Jeffrey and his daughter Susan, they
were planning something. I had not heard the message before
it was played.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, well it made me cry.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You know, you're a grizzled veteran, so I'm not sure
what how did you feel when you actually heard it
and you're watching all this happen with this next generation
of astronauts doing big things, and people don't realize it's
like every minute as you did back in the day.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
No, I thought it was a very good message, and
I have not followed up with too many interviews because
I didn't want to step on Certainly, Jim shows for
that kind of message, but he had good words.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What do we need to know about a lot of
people said, well, wait a minute. So a lot of
reports about how if the engines had failed or whatever,
they're using gravitational pull of the Moon to sort of
slingshot back and now they're heading back to Earth and
getting closer and closer by the moment.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
What do we need to know about that?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That we knew with the Apollo missions, but it was
essential for you and the crew on Apollo thirteen because
if it didn't work, you were screwed.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Well, yeah, we don't. We were the first mission that
launched and left the Earth headed for the Moon, not
we were not on a furier turn, which is what
all the previous missions had been and the Artemis is on.
In fact, if you know, if they didn't make another
maneuver at all using a change in the path, they
(23:05):
would have done their larger loop around the Moon and
have come home. At the time we had explosion, we
were not on that path. So if we could not
have done anything to change our path at that time,
we would have not gotten back.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Fred Hayes with us, and not only the lunar module
pilot Apollo thirteen, but an accomplished test pilot. And I'd
like to heartily recommend your heartily recommend your book Never
Panic early in Apollo thirteen Astronau's Journey, because you got
a couple of chapters about Apollo thirteen. You got a
lot in there about you know, American exceptionalism, you know
being a test pilot, almost dying, you know Space Shuttle
(23:46):
early on. It's just great to have here with your
with your analysis. What do you think is something that would.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Speak speaking of test pilots, It's not recognized as much
as such, but this Autumus two flights, it was a
test pilot's dream. I mean, yeah, they got to fly
that booster for the first time, the first time humans
have ridden on that booster. They're checking out the capsule
(24:15):
that had never been Ryan ron before with people aboard,
so they're checking out the camp Ryan capsule. It will
be used on future flights. And they go into the
Moon all in one foul swoop. Yeah, and hopefully the
test pilot's flight.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Absolutely, and people forget.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think people got very jaded, and maybe there's partly
NASA pr I think, in my opinion I'm not alone
in that back in the Shuttle years, but one hundred
and thirty five space Shuttle missions, people sort of thought, oh,
there we go again. And in fact, you remember that
happened with Apollo, after Apollo eleven, the first moonlanding of humans,
Apollo twelve, and then here's Apollo thirteen, and by that time,
you know, in the next it wasn't even a year,
(24:55):
and people were saying, I've been there, done that, what
else is on TV? Until you had the disaster, but
that almost made it impossible for those of you on
Apollo thirteen to come back. But you were also saying
that this Artemis two mission is really not as much
of a comparison to Apollo thirteen, but much more because
the test aspects for Apollo seven, which of course was
(25:18):
commanded as you know by our friend Wally Shirah many
years lived here his last years of his life here
in the San Diego area, Wilt Cunningham down Eisley, and
Apollo seven testing everything. Then Apollo eight, which was the
big Hurrah moment around the moon.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And then the first time people got the riot the
Saturn five.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, with the whole stack right, exactly right, And what
do you make of that? Because were you frustrated that
it took longer than it seems normal for any of
us who will remember those early days, and you were
certainly in the thick of it, but you know, as
most people maybe don't know unless they were alive. And
fifty five percent of the people on Earth, including our
NASA administrator. I think he's doing great, Isaacman. He's only
(25:57):
forty three. He builds on what you all did. But
we were doing some big launches with Saturn rockets, like
every couple of months, and here it seemingly forever for
Artemist to get going with this face.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Well, POWO was a very unique program.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It had.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
The total support has worked with President John F. Kennedy
and aligned everything through Congress to sustain that support with funding,
proper funding to follow a program plan that enabled us
to meet that schedule in those dates with the ultimate
(26:38):
mission of landing on the Moon before the end of
the sixties decade.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Now, it's interesting, I've talking to some people at lunch
today and there was a lot of this, oh, are
we going to go back to the Moon now? And
they're kind of aware of this and thinking, man, we
are so distracted by social media and everything else these
days it's really sad, but it's also instructional. And you know,
in the museum community with me at the Air and Spacemuseum,
and you're involved in one of your favorite museums in
the South. Fred Hayes Fred Hayes from Apollo thirteen with
(27:05):
us here. His book is Never Panic Early. Look it up.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You can get it on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
But you know when people ask, they typically say, well, well,
first and foremost it's usually how do you go to
the bathroom in space? We kind of dealt with that
last couple of days were their space aliens, And then
did we really go to the moon?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You know, these are the this is.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
What you get, and it's so frustrating and yet and
then people will say, well, why do we need to
go back there?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
What would you say to people say, been there, done that?
Why now? Why this?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Well? The reason is the moon that obviously you would
like to explormal. We only had six landings and all
of them were pretty much along the equatorial portion of
the moon, so we really hadn't done a very broad
exploration of our nearest friend the moon. But in that
(28:00):
slight in particular is also a second great thing they're
doing and shooting great pictures. They hit better cameras.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Than we had.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Just what I've seen of the it looks like the
resolution of the pictures, and particularly they get pictures near
the South Pole, which is has ice in resident in
some of the craters near the south Pole.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
We probably all those missions, as you know, with Apollo,
brought back some six hundred pounds of moon rocks, and
for years they went when we're doing with the rocks.
And in the last couple of years, today's technology has
unlocked a lot of mysteries and that's really really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And I know that.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I think it was Wiseman, the commander on Artemis two,
talking about the South Pole on the Moon. He was
talking about, I think in the last few hours seeing
asteroid strikes like like happening for real time. It's like,
might not want to land up there, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Well, I think the asteroids occasionally they're hitting all over
the mirror, and the Moon has atmosphere, so whatever's rolling
around the Solar system loose, they they have no atmosphere
to burn it up. So at whatever speed it's going,
it's going to hit the Moon at that speed.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Fred Hayes with US Apollo thirteen test pilot, phenomenal human being,
great American and it's just so honored to have you
as a friend all these many years. What's one thing
as we close out here, what would you say in
terms of your experience and where you hope we go
as a nation as humanity moving forward with whatever they had.
Because obviously things work perfectly, you kind of get sometimes
(29:36):
complacent thinking out always works perfectly. It's always dangerous. But
what's the takeaway when you think about the big picture?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Well, I hope the exploration continues, including not just going
back to the Moon, but with the telescopes, great telescopes
were put up and searching out in the universe, I
think a big thing, and it's something always been in
mind mind with the size of the galaxies, the number
(30:05):
of galaxies, the number of suns like our sons. Is
there life elsewhere in the universe? And so that's if
you want to call it, that's the long range big
picture of why I would hope we continue to explore
looking outward further and further as we moved along, and
(30:25):
maybe have better technology to accomplish better communications capability. Although
it seems like a sort of a limiting factor is
Einstein's theorem that we can't travel faster than the speed
of light.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
A lot of challenges I had, Fred Hayes, real quick,
one word answer here. If you didn't have the earthly
health challenges and you're pushing ninety three, God bless you.
But if you had a chance to go back again,
would you.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Oh, certainly, I'd hope to go back. I trained on
sixteen to John as a backup commander.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And at the time nineteen was the last mission which
I would have gone with Jerry Carr and Bill Pogue.
And of course that the budgets cuts canceled eighteen and nineteen,
so I didn't get to go back then to make
another try to land.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, but you also did the first important test really
for the Space Shuttle, and you can see that that
orbiter on the deck of the Intrepid in New York.
Fred Hayes, thank you for the insight. As always, stay
healthy and we'll talk soon. Thanks for the insight, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Okay, take care of yourself.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you for red you too. Never panic early. That's
Fred's book. It is awesome. You can find it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Fred Hayes dot Space it's Mark Waison.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Then for lou Penrose News Radio six hundred Coco breaking news.
Just the last few moments, President Trump says there's been
an agreement on a two weeks ceasefire, two weeks with Iran,
on the condition that Iran agreed to reopen the Strait
of hor moves. Israel also agreed to the ceasefire. Now,
what's an interesting wrinkle is I mean, that's good news.
And we heard in the last couple of hours Iron
(32:02):
said we're not having any communication.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
We cut it off.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, actually, we've made it impossible for them to have communication.
But the Prime Minister of Pakistan apparently was an intermediary
and proposed the ceasefire to allow diplomatic negotiations between the
US and Iran. So you could say all you want,
and it was ugly and weirdly timed. But Trump's social
media thing on Easter, I think that made a difference.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
We'll see now.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
In the meantime, you've got a bunch of rogue terrorists
in Iran taking a few final shots because once they
announced this. In the last few minutes, several Gulf countries
say they've been working to intercept missile and drone attacks
in the past hour, and in Tel Aviv, Israel, there
have been sirens going off just in the last five
minutes or so. Maybe that's the last Hurrab we will
(32:46):
watch because the deadline was five o'clock. Stay tuned, latest
on all of that coming up. Mark Larson in for
a lou Penrose News Radio six hundred co go live
on the iHeartRadio
Lo Penrose is not here, Mark Larson. We are live
in San Diego in every sense of the word. Good
to have you with us here, just those of you
following along, maybe a little confusion.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Let me help Right.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Here on news radio six hundred Coco, we have the
new lineup now at three o'clock. In this hour, it's
Lou Penrose. Five o'clock, it's Leland Conway. Seven o'clock. It's
yours truly, Mark Larson. You can find me online at
Coca dot com or Mark Larson dot com. M A
R K L A R S O N. But you know,
it's still spring break. Spring Break used to be like
two weeks around Easter, and then somehow the world decided
(00:45):
that we don't do Easter because it's too churchy. I
had no problem with that, But so Easter, well, spring
break goes on for like two months.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right. So here's the story. I will start today.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I believe that today and tomorrow Leland Conway decided he
had a desperate need to go vacation with Penrose in
the Bahamas.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, who am I to judge? I'm not going to
I'm in California for fifty years.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I'm not going to judge that but it's a short
trip and Leland's going to be back day after tomorrow.
So today you have me and at seven o'clock tonight
a special early edition of Coast to Coast with George Nori,
which is appropriate because we've had all this intergalactic fund
with Artemis two and I just love this. And you
know if you if you know me, you may know
(01:30):
me here Mark Larson on Cogo that I love things
that fly, love things that go into space. That's I've
been chairman of the Air and Space Museum now for
fourteen terms. Big splash down party at the museum on
Friday night that as you've been hearing here on Cogo
News today. The only wrinkle is the weather's going to
turn to Crapola late Friday, but especially Saturday. So there
(01:52):
are some parameters. We'll tell you what those are. I
think it's going to go go well, and Orian Command
Module is going to splash down off the coast of
San Diego and the USS Mirtha is going to go
out and retrieve them, and that'll be right around in
the five o'clock hour on Friday.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So it's been a big week for America.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
This is where my friends on the center left and
far left and Loopyville will say, how can you possibly
say it's been a good week for America. Let's see,
we didn't have anybody die, thank god, Capital g Easter weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
In terms of the you.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Know, our airman shot down by an lucky shot. And
by the way, let me point this out. We found
out today, you know on certain terms that I was
right on Friday on our show here on KGO Mark
Larson's seven o'clock in the new lineup. I know we
should sell programs se well, go to the cogo dot com.
You'll find out who's unwhere. But I'm here today and
New Orle from three to seven. My first thought was
(02:54):
in that southwestern part Iran, and I've been over to
the neighborhood more than once. Thought was, okay, that's butting
up against Iraq and a little bit of Kuwait. It
was probably some RPG rocket propelled grenades, some shoulder launched conveyance,
that's what it was. In other words, they got lucky.
(03:15):
I remember being in Afghanistan. We did the first groundbreaking reports,
the first long form talk shows from that part of
the world back in two thousand and five.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
In two thousand and six.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Remember coming back from Cobble, Afghanistan after being over there
for a long period of time, came back here about.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
This time of the year. They was April, and the world.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
The CNN, the usual bunch freaking out that, oh, the
Taliban hit a rocket into Cobble. And because of the
trips I had over there, I got to know the
Minister of Defense in other words, Afghanistan's Donald Rumsfeld back
in the day, Raheem Wardock.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And so I went through a couple of contacts. I
got him on the show.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
We aired a here on Coco back then, and I said,
the world's freaking out about this.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I rocket went into Cobble.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
He said, Hey, we fought back in the days of
the Mujahadeen and the Taybah back in the you know,
once in a while they got lucky.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So they got lucky.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And today the big buzz is Okay, Trump's got this
deadline five o'clock our time today, less than two hours away. Well,
he says, the whole civilization will die tonight.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
If you if you look at some of the usual
places Drudge Report, for example, which used to be sent
or right or far right, depending on what Matt Drudge
was doing. He sold that long ago to people who
don't think like he does. So they've got bold font
all caps, red letters, Trump unhinged, whole civilization will die tonight,
(04:51):
nuke warning good news soon. Iran calls for human chains
cyber attacks hit USA. Well, hopefully not. But I do
know this, the religious zealot lunatics in Iran are full
of crap and they love just just laying it out
(05:13):
like they know. The reports today we had as the
internet's been down, there's a one percent it's been down
for some time. One percent of the population in Iran
has any connectivity at all. So Iran today says we
are cutting off all communication with the US. We kind
of cut that off for you. This is not a
great mystery except for people who are cheering for our military.
(05:36):
This is a big deal for those of us in
San Diego, especially with the Navy, with the Marines.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
All branches are represented here. But this is a.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Big local story, and you got a lot of local
families on itge We have the USS Abraham Lincoln over there,
tr the USS Theodore Roosevelt headed out of port here
on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
You know, the Marine Expeditionary Unit out of out of
Miramar and out of Camp Helden. They're all busy right now.
I love today heading into the station, seeing helicopter activity
over the fifty two out of Miramar, MCS Miramar, and
they had a lot of the jets over there as well.
I like seeing our tax dollars at work because everybody's prepared.
(06:19):
But I have really disturbed, aren't you with how people
some people blest their hearts, seem to be cheering for
us to screw up, for the US to somehow fail.
I guarantee you there are some people, and many of
them may be or some maybe not many. Some of
(06:42):
them may be in the United States Congress and the
House or sentateside hoping something goes wrong with art of US.
Canse you know what they watch all these big victories
in space. We got that going on. We got the
rescue of our airmen that went down with a lucky
shot from a rocket propelled grenade, a shoulder launched missile
of sorts. You got the bravado from the the Iyahtola wannabes,
(07:06):
the potentates and the impotentates. You hear today apparently there's
a report out that the Iyahtola this is the son
of the guy who got taken out not for dinner,
but to the seventy two virgins. I wonder how that's
working out. Have a good time in hell. I'm just
saying eight hundred and six hundred cogo you disagree with it,
love to hear from you, Mark Larson and for Lou Penrose,
(07:28):
these radio six hundred cogo or I open the eyeheart
app you find cogo, tap the red talkback Mike can
send us a voice message. But this is really weird
to me. We have a lot of people, including members
of Congress. Maybe you love to hear from you, maybe
friends of yours who just seem to be hating the
fact that there's any sort of success under the Orange Man,
(07:50):
because Orange Man is bad.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Orange Man bad.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And I love how some of my closest friends get
on me and say, well, how do you defend this?
My job is not to defend what Donald Trump does
on social media. Much of it is indefensible. But I
also know he's talking, not like you think he's talking.
He's talking with the big blowhards in Iran. He's speaking
their language. Now we'll find out. And you've got to
hand it to the pr apparatus in Iran. They're big
(08:17):
at taking whatever has happened, like we have no power
of no communications, so they leak out the word. Well,
Iran says they've cut off all communications. They didn't have
an option. We cut it off for them. And by
the way, all the talk today and over the weekend,
Trump's committing war crimes that can be debated. He's got
(08:39):
a lot of good legal counsel, has a Pentagon. None
of this is without any sort of due diligence. And
Trump's doing what Reagan did. He's not Ronald Reagan, but
he's doing what Reagan did. When they said, you know,
the Soviets, mister Reagan think that you're crazy. They think
you're trigger happy, you're a cowboy to go on and
(09:00):
clear that up, and Reagan said, will let them think
I'm crazy, or something to that effect. That gave him
the advantage. Trump's playing the same game in the time
of social media. You may not like it, I may
not like it, but so far it's been pretty damn effective,
whether it's on the battlefield or in space. And they said, oh,
(09:25):
Trump's doing Trump's doing war crimes. Well, presidents before have
done similar things. They were not war crimes. It's because
he's Trump. But Iran's actually doing war crimes because they've
been putting out innocent women and kids in human chains
around military sites. This is what they do. Iraq did
(09:47):
this too, and I'm not going to debate the Iraq thing.
The weapons of mass destruction. Both Republicans and Democrats bought that.
A lot of that wasn't true. It is what it is.
Can't go back in the time machine, but it is
against international law to put human beings in harm's way
around military sites because they know exactly what they're doing.
(10:10):
The US is not saying let's go kill civilians. That's
not what Trump means when he says a whole civilization
will die tonight.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
He's talking the historical sense.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Iran as it was under Persia, what it could be,
what has been for forty seven years. And don't say, well, Larson,
you're being a warmarger. I'm giving you some perspective with
some knowledge of being among well, the only talk show
host I know certainly here in this region has actually
been over there to that region a few times.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
The culture is different.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
They want to see who has the huevos and the
spine to stand up against this stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We'll find out. Yeh, Saloon Penrose show.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
We are live in San Diego, Mark Larson here, good
to have you with us today and tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I'm here for not only Lou, but for Leland.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Conway, Kevin Finnerity, Mister Finnity is here running controls. He
hands it off to Silverfang, also known as Tim Piles
at five and the new lineup on Cogo that began
just last week. We're just making sure we're testing you,
to make sure you remember it's normally or abnormally three
pm weekdays. Lou Penrose, who celebrated by almost immediately going
(11:31):
on vacation. It was tough scheduled Gin Know and then
Leland Conway, my former partner the last couple of years
on Conway and Larson at He's on at five o'clock
and then I'm on at seven.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Then we have Coast to Coast with George new Norrie
and all.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
The intergalactic creatures living under your bed. So tonight we
will bring in a special earlier edition of Coast to
Coast because with Artimists going on and the return to
San Diego off the coast splashed down on Friday. It
seems like a good bit of symmetry here, so today
and tomorrow, because well, here's the inside story. Leland Conway
(12:06):
loves Lou Penrose so much that he has gone off
to spend some time quality time with Lou. I think
Lou's family's there, but you know they're understanding, and they'll
be on the beach in the Bahamas. We're in a
bit of prophetic something. You might have heard this talked
about even this week yesterday. Lou got down there on
(12:27):
Good Friday, and because it was Good Friday, there was
no alcoholic liquid there. So maybe Leland's going down to
bring him a little something, deliver martiniz or what have you.
So it'll be a quick trip of hot humidity, all
of that. So Conway, after opening up his pores with Penrose,
will be back with us day after tomorrow. So I'm
(12:49):
here today from three to seven. There will not be
a test on this, but three to seven today and
same thing tomorrow tomorrow on the show. By the way,
we're going to have the Secretary of Energy here Chris
Wright at five thirty five. Kind of a timely thing,
especially if we have all hell break loose with Iran
and the Mullahs tonight, the potentates and impotentates about five o'clock.
(13:13):
We have a lot of fossil fuel energy in California,
and there's been this battle, as you know, between people
in my view with pragmatic views of oil and gas
and how California can be better because we're standing over
by some estimates, as much oil as you have in
Saudi Arabia here in California. So we'll talk to the
Secretary of Energy, mister Wright tomorrow at five thirty five.
(13:37):
Jim Desmond's going to join us five thirty five today.
County Supervisor is also running for Congress and coming up
after the bottom of the hour because in addition to
military victories, thank god, so far huge San Diego story.
We have had every minute of it so far, other
than the toilet problem. I mean really Artemis two doing
(13:58):
so phenomenally well, and coming back to San Diego sometime
around probably around five thirty ish, somewhere in the five
o'clock hour on Friday, if the weather is good here, so.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There's some variables.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So next hour at three thirty five, right after the
bottom of the hour, news update, We will talk with
Fred Hayes, who is the only living crew member of
Apollo thirteen back in nineteen seventy. In fact, coming up
this Saturday, that's the what would that be the fifty
sixth anniversary of Apollo thirteen launching the Moon? And it
(14:30):
was all going well till it wasn't and they had
the oxygen tank that blew. Did that really happen? Just
watch the movie with Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks played Jim Lovell,
and Jim Lovell yesterday was the voice that they played.
I didn't know he did this. He was one of
my best friends for years. He passed away last August,
but back in June he recorded for the Artemis crew
(14:52):
this message, and we cover that here on Cogo.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I said, oh, I'm Jim Lovell.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
He was ninety seven when he recorded that and just
starting to slow down. I talked to him on a
regular basis. Didn't know he did that. So the wake
up call yesterday morning this made me cry. Wake up
call yesterday morning was I After they played some uplifting music,
goes this Jim Lovel Paulow thirteen. I'll paraphrase that. He said,
(15:18):
welcome to my neighborhood, and he went through saying when
we were here, when Frank Borman and Bill Anderson and
I were here on Apollo eight back in nineteen sixty
eight doing a similar fly around. Although Poulo eight did
orbits around the moon, Artemis two did not because they
were testing a lot of different things. But to hear
(15:38):
Jim and he was even though he sounds slow if
you heard some of the coverage here on Cogo again,
there was last June. He passed away August seventh, and
I thought he'd make it to one hundred. But anyway,
that was so moving, so meaningful, and he always he
and all the people who either went to the moon
on Apollo and he wasn't able to be moonwalker was weird.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
For years, he would say he kind of felt guilty.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
He didn't say it exactly that way, but it was
like he felt they all felt like maybe they were
a little off because they didn't make it, because they
had a problem. Well, that the whole Apollo thirteen story
was such a great historical record of American exceptionalism, the
hundreds of thousands of men and women on the ground
who figured it out on the ground in places like Houston,
(16:28):
up and downy everywhere else and got them back safely.
One of the great stories in American space exploration history.
So yesterday I heard a lot about this. Artemists went
out there and beat the record. They've now gone beyond
where any human beings have gone in space, four thousand
or so miles beyond where Apollo thirteen went. And that
was when Jim Lovell was the commander and Fred Hayes,
(16:54):
and they had Swigert. Fred Hayes was the lunar mogical pilot.
He'll join us at three thirty five in the next
half hour. I mean, it was phenomenal. But wait, do
you hear how Fred will explain how far? Because people say, wow,
they beat the record, The record wasn't that big, and
the record was we need as much energy because we're
out of power, can't get to a power captain. We
(17:15):
got to swing around the moon here and hope we
get back to Earth. They did that story and a
lot of other perspective you will not hear anywhere else
coming up with the legendary astronaut Fred Hayes of Apollo thirteen.
It's Mark Larson here for lou Penrose News Radio six
(17:36):
hundred cogo. Penrose off this week, returning soon and Leland
Conway and in the five o'clock hour I'll be covering.
So I'm basically here till seven o'clock and glad you're
here with US News Radio six hundred cogo. We're watching
closely the five o'clock Pacific time deadline when the president,
you may remember the name Donald J. Trump, says that
(17:57):
all hell's going to break loose. I'm just paraphrasing here
as we've been reporting. He said, the whole civilization will
die tonight. Now this keep in mind in Trump speak,
that doesn't mean every innocent individual is going to be
killed off.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
This is an.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Iranian mulla back and forth iatola talk to speak the
language like earlier today when with this deadline looming, you
had whoever's talking in around now we don't know who
it is, said, well, we've cut off all communications with
the US. Now we cut off the communications because only
one percent of the country has any internet connection at all.
(18:34):
So we'll see what happens at five o'clock our time.
So obviously we're monitoring that, being a big military city
as we are, and throughout this whole region, News Radio
six hundred cogo live of the iHeartRadio app. There are
so many people who, it seems to me, are trying
to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in all
of this, with the big rescue of American airmen over
(18:58):
the weekend, the military, the best, the brightest, the history
making moves like every minute. I'm not exaggering that in
space with Artemis two and Artemis of course coming back
to splash down, we anticipate somewhere in the five o'clock
hour our time on Friday, off the coast of San Diego.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So we've got some big things going on.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And if you can separate bias you may have about
individual political figures, just talk about American exceptionalism.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Let's park on that for a while. A lot of talk.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Was made in the last well through this whole mission,
especially yesterday, that Artemis two had beaten the record. They've
gone farther beyond where any human beings have gone. They
broke the record set by Apollo thirteen back in nineteen seventy.
I think, well, that's good, that's good history. I'm glad
they're talking about Apollo thirteen and the whole Apollo program,
(19:57):
and I like how Isaac min at the at NASA,
the head of NASA now is building on the shoulders
of the pioneers. You know, let's find out from somebody
who was actually there as opposed to theorizing.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Fred Hayes, former NASA.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Astronaut, engineer, fighter pilot, US Marine Corps and US Air
Force test pilot, one of twenty four astronauts for Apollo
to reach the Moon, and Lunar module pilot Apollo thirteen. Hey, Fred,
I'm good to have you here. Thanks for joining us
on a obviously a very busy day. So you and
I were talking off the air last couple of days
about this, this whole Apollo thirteen record, and then you
(20:32):
reminded me, like, Okay, you didn't go to like three
thousand miles with Jim Lovell and the crew on Apollo thirteen,
three thousand miles above the surface. You were more than
most had gone, but you didn't go as far as
they went yesterday.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Right now, now, by far, the normal orbits around the
Moon for all Apollo missions was sixty miles, and our
short pass around the backside was at about one hundred
and thirty one point something miles, So we're only over
sixty miles higher than all the flights had gone. So
(21:07):
I think someone had that posted as a world record
or whatever, just to make us feel better because we
didn't get the land.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Did you have any inkling that Jim Lovell, our good friend,
your commander on Apollo thirteen was and it was also
there an Apollo eight, even more significantly because that was
most similar to this particular mission. But did you know
he had recorded that audio from back in June, a
couple months before he passed.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Well, I didn't know the exact words, but I knew
that with his son Jeffrey and his daughter Susan, they
were planning something. I had not heard the message before
it was played.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, well it made me cry.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You know, you're a grizzled veteran, so I'm not sure
what how did you feel when you actually heard it
and you're watching all this happen with this next generation
of astronauts doing big things, and people don't realize it's
like every minute as you did back in the day.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
No, I thought it was a very good message, and
I have not followed up with too many interviews because
I didn't want to step on Certainly, Jim shows for
that kind of message, but he had good words.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What do we need to know about a lot of
people said, well, wait a minute. So a lot of
reports about how if the engines had failed or whatever,
they're using gravitational pull of the Moon to sort of
slingshot back and now they're heading back to Earth and
getting closer and closer by the moment.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
What do we need to know about that?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That we knew with the Apollo missions, but it was
essential for you and the crew on Apollo thirteen because
if it didn't work, you were screwed.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Well, yeah, we don't. We were the first mission that
launched and left the Earth headed for the Moon, not
we were not on a furier turn, which is what
all the previous missions had been and the Artemis is on.
In fact, if you know, if they didn't make another
maneuver at all using a change in the path, they
(23:05):
would have done their larger loop around the Moon and
have come home. At the time we had explosion, we
were not on that path. So if we could not
have done anything to change our path at that time,
we would have not gotten back.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Fred Hayes with us, and not only the lunar module
pilot Apollo thirteen, but an accomplished test pilot. And I'd
like to heartily recommend your heartily recommend your book Never
Panic early in Apollo thirteen Astronau's Journey, because you got
a couple of chapters about Apollo thirteen. You got a
lot in there about you know, American exceptionalism, you know
being a test pilot, almost dying, you know Space Shuttle
(23:46):
early on. It's just great to have here with your
with your analysis. What do you think is something that would.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Speak speaking of test pilots, It's not recognized as much
as such, but this Autumus two flights, it was a
test pilot's dream. I mean, yeah, they got to fly
that booster for the first time, the first time humans
have ridden on that booster. They're checking out the capsule
(24:15):
that had never been Ryan ron before with people aboard,
so they're checking out the camp Ryan capsule. It will
be used on future flights. And they go into the
Moon all in one foul swoop. Yeah, and hopefully the
test pilot's flight.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Absolutely, and people forget.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think people got very jaded, and maybe there's partly
NASA pr I think, in my opinion I'm not alone
in that back in the Shuttle years, but one hundred
and thirty five space Shuttle missions, people sort of thought, oh,
there we go again. And in fact, you remember that
happened with Apollo, after Apollo eleven, the first moonlanding of humans,
Apollo twelve, and then here's Apollo thirteen, and by that time,
you know, in the next it wasn't even a year,
(24:55):
and people were saying, I've been there, done that, what
else is on TV? Until you had the disaster, but
that almost made it impossible for those of you on
Apollo thirteen to come back. But you were also saying
that this Artemis two mission is really not as much
of a comparison to Apollo thirteen, but much more because
the test aspects for Apollo seven, which of course was
(25:18):
commanded as you know by our friend Wally Shirah many
years lived here his last years of his life here
in the San Diego area, Wilt Cunningham down Eisley, and
Apollo seven testing everything. Then Apollo eight, which was the
big Hurrah moment around the moon.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And then the first time people got the riot the
Saturn five.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, with the whole stack right, exactly right, And what
do you make of that? Because were you frustrated that
it took longer than it seems normal for any of
us who will remember those early days, and you were
certainly in the thick of it, but you know, as
most people maybe don't know unless they were alive. And
fifty five percent of the people on Earth, including our
NASA administrator. I think he's doing great, Isaacman. He's only
(25:57):
forty three. He builds on what you all did. But
we were doing some big launches with Saturn rockets, like
every couple of months, and here it seemingly forever for
Artemist to get going with this face.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Well, POWO was a very unique program.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It had.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
The total support has worked with President John F. Kennedy
and aligned everything through Congress to sustain that support with funding,
proper funding to follow a program plan that enabled us
to meet that schedule in those dates with the ultimate
(26:38):
mission of landing on the Moon before the end of
the sixties decade.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Now, it's interesting, I've talking to some people at lunch
today and there was a lot of this, oh, are
we going to go back to the Moon now? And
they're kind of aware of this and thinking, man, we
are so distracted by social media and everything else these
days it's really sad, but it's also instructional. And you know,
in the museum community with me at the Air and Spacemuseum,
and you're involved in one of your favorite museums in
the South. Fred Hayes Fred Hayes from Apollo thirteen with
(27:05):
us here. His book is Never Panic Early. Look it up.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You can get it on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
But you know when people ask, they typically say, well, well,
first and foremost it's usually how do you go to
the bathroom in space? We kind of dealt with that
last couple of days were their space aliens, And then
did we really go to the moon?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You know, these are the this is.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
What you get, and it's so frustrating and yet and
then people will say, well, why do we need to
go back there?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
What would you say to people say, been there, done that?
Why now? Why this?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Well? The reason is the moon that obviously you would
like to explormal. We only had six landings and all
of them were pretty much along the equatorial portion of
the moon, so we really hadn't done a very broad
exploration of our nearest friend the moon. But in that
(28:00):
slight in particular is also a second great thing they're
doing and shooting great pictures. They hit better cameras.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Than we had.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Just what I've seen of the it looks like the
resolution of the pictures, and particularly they get pictures near
the South Pole, which is has ice in resident in
some of the craters near the south Pole.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
We probably all those missions, as you know, with Apollo,
brought back some six hundred pounds of moon rocks, and
for years they went when we're doing with the rocks.
And in the last couple of years, today's technology has
unlocked a lot of mysteries and that's really really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And I know that.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I think it was Wiseman, the commander on Artemis two,
talking about the South Pole on the Moon. He was
talking about, I think in the last few hours seeing
asteroid strikes like like happening for real time. It's like,
might not want to land up there, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Well, I think the asteroids occasionally they're hitting all over
the mirror, and the Moon has atmosphere, so whatever's rolling
around the Solar system loose, they they have no atmosphere
to burn it up. So at whatever speed it's going,
it's going to hit the Moon at that speed.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Fred Hayes with US Apollo thirteen test pilot, phenomenal human being,
great American and it's just so honored to have you
as a friend all these many years. What's one thing
as we close out here, what would you say in
terms of your experience and where you hope we go
as a nation as humanity moving forward with whatever they had.
Because obviously things work perfectly, you kind of get sometimes
(29:36):
complacent thinking out always works perfectly. It's always dangerous. But
what's the takeaway when you think about the big picture?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Well, I hope the exploration continues, including not just going
back to the Moon, but with the telescopes, great telescopes
were put up and searching out in the universe, I
think a big thing, and it's something always been in
mind mind with the size of the galaxies, the number
(30:05):
of galaxies, the number of suns like our sons. Is
there life elsewhere in the universe? And so that's if
you want to call it, that's the long range big
picture of why I would hope we continue to explore
looking outward further and further as we moved along, and
(30:25):
maybe have better technology to accomplish better communications capability. Although
it seems like a sort of a limiting factor is
Einstein's theorem that we can't travel faster than the speed
of light.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
A lot of challenges I had, Fred Hayes, real quick,
one word answer here. If you didn't have the earthly
health challenges and you're pushing ninety three, God bless you.
But if you had a chance to go back again,
would you.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Oh, certainly, I'd hope to go back. I trained on
sixteen to John as a backup commander.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And at the time nineteen was the last mission which
I would have gone with Jerry Carr and Bill Pogue.
And of course that the budgets cuts canceled eighteen and nineteen,
so I didn't get to go back then to make
another try to land.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, but you also did the first important test really
for the Space Shuttle, and you can see that that
orbiter on the deck of the Intrepid in New York.
Fred Hayes, thank you for the insight. As always, stay
healthy and we'll talk soon. Thanks for the insight, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Okay, take care of yourself.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you for red you too. Never panic early. That's
Fred's book. It is awesome. You can find it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Fred Hayes dot Space it's Mark Waison.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Then for lou Penrose News Radio six hundred Coco breaking news.
Just the last few moments, President Trump says there's been
an agreement on a two weeks ceasefire, two weeks with Iran,
on the condition that Iran agreed to reopen the Strait
of hor moves. Israel also agreed to the ceasefire. Now,
what's an interesting wrinkle is I mean, that's good news.
And we heard in the last couple of hours Iron
(32:02):
said we're not having any communication.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
We cut it off.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, actually, we've made it impossible for them to have communication.
But the Prime Minister of Pakistan apparently was an intermediary
and proposed the ceasefire to allow diplomatic negotiations between the
US and Iran. So you could say all you want,
and it was ugly and weirdly timed. But Trump's social
media thing on Easter, I think that made a difference.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
We'll see now.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
In the meantime, you've got a bunch of rogue terrorists
in Iran taking a few final shots because once they
announced this. In the last few minutes, several Gulf countries
say they've been working to intercept missile and drone attacks
in the past hour, and in Tel Aviv, Israel, there
have been sirens going off just in the last five
minutes or so. Maybe that's the last Hurrab we will
(32:46):
watch because the deadline was five o'clock. Stay tuned, latest
on all of that coming up. Mark Larson in for
a lou Penrose News Radio six hundred co go live
on the iHeartRadio
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