December 17, 2025 • 42 mins
What's a river to you?
After cyclone Alfred crossed Australia's East Coast earlier this year, tens of thousands of fish died in our local river, Dave got a persistent staph infection and our community tousled with a question: what's wrong with our river? And what can we do about it ?
How does change happen when we, and the world, seem stuck in our ways?
We’re curious about how change happens – and what people are doing on the ground, in our community, to create the causal pathways to shift social and environmental ideas, norms, and policy.
The first episode heard from organisers and attendees of the 2025 Waterwomen Camp Out put on by the NGO Surfers for Climate.
In today's episode, we head to Richmond River Fest 2025, a month-long celebration of the rivers, cultures, and communities of the Northern Rivers put on by Richmond Riverkeeper.
We hear from marine scientist Liz Hawkins, who reveals how our resident Indo-Pacific bottlenose dolphins use the Richmond as a kitchen and nursery. She connects river health to coastal resilience.
Then, lifelong commercial fisher Mark lays down hard truths about the Teven/Tuckean barrage and failed floodgates. The fix is practical and proven.
Revive The Northern Rivers founder Tom Wolff speaks of his seventh generation connection to the river and gives Dave a guiding question that fills his sails.
Dave shares the story behind one of his projects this year, The Rivers Run. It's a 50-kilometer run–paddle–swim designed to recruit surfers, divers, and sailors into tree-planting, mangrove restoration, and on-the-ground river care with OzFish and Revive the Northern Rivers.
Along the Cape Byron Marine Park and a UNESCO-recognized Hope Spot, we remember why this coastline still inspires—and what it demands in return.
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave Rastovich
Sound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the
aquatic experiences that shapewho we become back on land.
I'm your host, Lauren Hill,joined by my partner Dave
Rastevich.
Here we get to talk story withsome of the most interesting and
adept water folk on the planet.
We acknowledge the BunjalongNation, the traditional
custodians of the land andwaters where we work and play,
(00:26):
who have cared for this seacountry for tens of thousands of
years.
Respect and gratitude to allFirst Nations people, including
elders, past, present, andemerging.
This season is supported byPatagonia, whose purpose-driven
mission is to use business tosave our home planet.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01):
Once it crossed the coast up near Brisbane, all that
rain on the southern side of thestorm, which was sort of the
more severe side of the storm,came down in our northern rivers
region.
And you know, typically that'sour wet season.
We've kind of prepared formonths, some years, where it
just doesn't stop raining monthafter month, and within those
(01:22):
months you can have a storm likethis.
So it wasn't too out of theordinary, though the storm surge
and the volume of fresh watercoming down into the river
systems was pretty extreme.
And so what we saw was actuallyin our local Richmond River,
which is just a few kilometresaway from where we live, and
(01:44):
from some of the most celebratedsurfing spots in Australia, you
know, this is the land of LongRight Point, and a lot of us
live here mostly because ofthose beautiful waves and the
incredible flow of sand and flowof water that comes along this
coast interacting with riversystems and headlands and beach
breaks and offshore reefs.
(02:05):
And so when that volume of freshwater started moving through
these really large river systemsand the Richmond River is
enormous with you know 400square kilometres of floodplain
within it.
The river was filled withsediment from industrial ag
(02:28):
farming practices, washing downfrom where there used to once be
many trees holding the landscapetogether.
All those trees have beenremoved and replaced with sugar
cane or macadamia plantations,or just left with cattle
roaming.
And so that sediment coming intothe streams and creeks and
drains is bringing with it a lotof soil and a lot of the
(02:52):
contaminants from industrial agpractices.
So we actually saw these events,black water events.
It's called Blackwater, whereessentially tens of thousands of
fish were dying in our localriver system, and it got so bad
that the local town that is, youknow, right smack bang in the
centre of the Richmond River,which is Ballinar, stunk of dead
(03:14):
fish and basically became like adisaster zone, really.
Just disgusting water pouringout of our creeks and streams
into the main river system andthen out into the ocean.
And that's where one day when wewere walking along the beach
behind where we live, which isnear Lennox Head and Seven Mile
Beach, uh, when we have stormslike this, we like to sort of
(03:34):
comb the beach and look foranything that might have washed
up that shouldn't be there overthe years.
That's been things like youknow, barrels of pesticide that
have been washed off of farmsinto the river and then down
along the coast filled withgnarly chemicals, all kinds of
bales of mulch and feed wrappedin plastic, fencing materials,
and also just like urban rubbishentering stormwater systems and
(03:58):
washing down streets and intothe river.
So we just went for a walk, andwhen we did that, I just got a
tiny nick on the bottom of myright foot, just under my little
toe, like ridiculously smallcut.
But we were walking along theshoreline where the brown foam
essentially sits on that hightide line when we get these sort
(04:19):
of big weather events, and youcan smell the contaminants in
that brown foam.
Everyone's urged to not swim orsurf anywhere near that foam for
you know serious reasons.
Mostly if you have that waterentering your ears or in your
mouth or up your nose, you'regonna get really crook.
(04:39):
But walking on the beach, Ididn't really think of that.
I thought, you know, we're juston the high tide line.
What harm can come from that?
But harm did come from that.
And within about a week, my footswelled right up.
My tiny pinky was nearly as bigas my big toe, really fat and
swollen and like a purplecolour, and uh and then my
(05:01):
joints started to ache, my kneebehind my knee, in my groin, in
my armpit, so my like glandsstarted to really hurt, and my
head started to spin, and Iliterally just felt like I had
blood poisoning, which I've hadbefore from having you know bad
cuts in tropical areas that havejust become infected.
And I didn't realise that thiscould happen here though, where
(05:22):
we live.
We've never had a history ofgetting that kind of level of
illness and sickness from rainyand freshwater events happening
where the water turns brown.
But a tipping point was reachedthis year in 2025 where many of
us became ill and the biggestfish kills happened in our river
system here that any of us haveseen.
(05:44):
And so, anyway, I ended up inhospital, uh, had three days of
having antibiotics intravenouslyput in my body to beat the
infection.
And it was there while I waslying in the bed.
You know, if anyone's been inhospital and receiving drugs or
things like antibiotics, you'vegot a bit of time.
You're sitting there thinkingabout how did I get here, what
can I do to avoid this happeningagain.
(06:05):
And it was in that moment that Irealized I I didn't know enough
about our river systems.
I didn't know enough about theproblem of toxicity in our river
systems.
We live in this beautiful areawhere there's not too much
humanity and we look around andwe think we live in a green,
clean ecosystem, especially whenwe have somewhere like the Gold
Coast up the road where there'sextreme development and a lot of
(06:28):
people come from the Gold Coastto visit where we live in the
northern rivers to get somespace and to breathe a bit
easier.
But really, the truth of it isthat we live in an
industrialized space here.
There is industrial-scaleagricultural practices all
around us that are spraying andaltering the landscape in ways
that you know we're now reallystarting to understand are very
(06:49):
harmful not only for theecosystem but also for
ourselves.
And so I realize I need to seekout people who are working on
this issue, people who couldanswer those sort of questions
like what is going on with theriver, what can we do about it,
how can we avoid this happeningnext wet season?
And so naturally the surfingcommunity around here is pretty
large, and within that communitythere is bound to be people
(07:13):
working on this issue, so I Iseek them out, and that is Tom
Wolfe, a young fellow fromLennox Head area, who
multi-generations in this regionand a good perspective on how
the Richmond River onceflourished and was thriving, and
what state it's in now.
And then he also led me to meetZoe White, who works for Ozfish,
(07:38):
a great organization working onriver health, freshwater,
saltwater issues around thecountry.
And basically we just startedyarning.
Uh, what happened from there wasa kind of education just through
having cups of tea and surfstogether.
Really, what they shared with mewas that there is a lot of
(07:58):
people studying our riversystems in this area.
There is a lot of data, there isa lot of understanding around
the issues.
However, there isn't a lot ofcommunity engagement, there
isn't a lot of volunteers, thereisn't a lot of action, even
though the diagnosis, the theunderstanding of what's
happening to these great rivers,this this enormous river system
(08:20):
here, especially the RichmondRiver.
And so what I realized in thoseconversations was that that need
of having more people involvedwas perhaps something I could
work on.
So I basically came up with theidea of bringing people together
from my circles, which are thesurfing, diving, sailing, and
(08:42):
adventuring sort of circles inthe area, and even growers to a
degree, farmers and stuff.
And we basically came up withthe idea to do this event called
the Rivers Run, where we wouldessentially experience in one
day, in one go, the two riversthat hem us in, the two rivers
that create this type ofterritorial boundary to a degree
(09:05):
of our region, and that is theBrunswick River and the Richmond
River.
Within those two rivers is anincredible Cape Byron Marine
Park, unbelievable oceanicterritory, just a mixing area,
nothing gully, Julian Rocks, theisland off of Byron Bay.
Most people would have seen ifthey've come to this area, is
one of the most celebrateddiving spots in Australia, if
(09:28):
not the world, where you see allthe creatures from the Coral Sea
coming down and swimming aroundand migrating here.
You see so many creatures fromthe temperate waters down south
coming and mixing here, andwe're right in that line where
the two worlds sort of combine.
And so, because of thatbiodiversity, this area has been
deemed a global hope spot giventhat there is so many great
(09:51):
things existing in our watershere, and such a great uh
engaged community when it comesto the ecology and the story of
this space.
So, what I wanted to do was haveus run, paddle, and swim between
the two rivers, roughly 50kilometres, and in that there
was the intention to basicallyget some young, fit and able
(10:15):
volunteers aware of the workthat Ozfish, the river keepers,
and Tom with Revive the NorthernRivers are doing so that when
they do their plant outs to helpthe rivers and to try and
reinstall the filtration systemsvia all those trees, those
mangroves and the grasses thatwere once everywhere along these
(10:38):
river systems, that we could getplenty of people there who are
fit, young and able to do thethe work and do the hard work,
raise a few dollars, but alsojust light up our community when
it comes to understanding howbeautiful our space is.
So that's what we did.
We created the Rivers Run.
It carried out in August with anice west wind and some good
challenges rounding the Cape ofByron with a lot of us hitting
(11:02):
the wall basically, and a few ofus completing the whole
challenge, if many of us notdoing the whole challenge, which
has set us up to do this everyyear and keep bringing more and
more people into this way ofcelebrating our coastal region
and also tuning in and seeinghow we can assist with the local
groups that are working on RiverHealth, Coastal Health.
(11:23):
So the River Runs event was alsoaimed at beating the drum and
helping to make some noise whenit comes to the Riverfest event,
which was an annual event on theshores of the Richmond River in
the heart of Ballinar, wherespecialists, cultural leaders,
(11:44):
fishers, surfers, scientists,conservationists would meet and
basically strengthen theirrelationships and inform each
other and inform the public whoare very concerned about what we
can do, what state the river'sin, and where we can move
forward and uh start to cleanthe river up.
So what we have is a snippet ofthe Riverfest event that
(12:07):
happened in September, towardsthe end of September in 2025,
and we hear from Liz Hawkins,who is local dolphin whisperer,
the most knowledgeable personwhen it comes to the dolphin
communities, the residentialdolphin communities that live
along our coastline that weshare lineups with that we
marvel at when we're outsurfing, and they are underneath
(12:30):
us, all around us, and sometimesover us in the air, jumping out
of waves.
Liz informs us on the state ofthe rivers in relation to
dolphin community health.
We also hear from a localfisher, longtime fishing family
representative Mark, who tellsit how it is when it comes to
the issues with the RichmondRiver and how we can move
(12:51):
forward and get busy doing thereparation and the revival work
for the river.
And then we also hear from TomWolfe, who runs the Revive the
Northern Rivers group, who isconstantly writing beautifully
and eloquently with insightsinto river health and what we
can do as concerned coastalcustodians.
(13:14):
He shares his perspective andreally just lights us up.
The idea of being able to attenda community event not long after
such a tragedy as a Blackwaterevent, mass fish kills, many of
us getting sick like I did withstaph infections, the collapse
of oyster fisheries, the stressand struggle of fisheries in
(13:37):
general, the struggle of farmersinundated with water and
drainage issues.
You know, there's so much goingon in our local ecology and our
local culture that these sort ofevents like Riverfest just feel
so important to attend and alsoso important to record and share
like this, so that maybe otherscan learn from us and hopefully
(13:58):
others can share with us whatthey've done in similar
situations with river healtharound the world because this is
not an isolated problem.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
So thanks everyone for coming out today and
celebrating this amazing riversystem on World Rivers Day.
And you know, this river is partof the arteries of the earth.
It's like all of these kinds ofwaterways, they're part of
maintaining these healthysystems and healthy oceans.
(14:33):
And as we know, we live on ablue planet.
My own journey with this riverstarted over 20 years ago.
I started the first uh dolphinand whale research in Ballina
area.
Uh, and over those years,there's been a lot of changes,
but part of my research herebegan to understand how these
(14:53):
dolphins use this area and thisriver and their systems.
What do they need in their ownwildlife to survive?
What areas are important tothem?
And how does it work withintheir own social systems and
populations?
And what does that mean whenthey work out along the coast as
well?
So, part of my work over 20years has been to understand the
(15:17):
structure of our coastal dolphinpopulations and understand areas
that are of importance to ourresident dolphin communities.
Here in the Richmond, we haveone particular community of
resident dolphins where thisarea is of critical importance
to their survival.
It is in critical importance fortheir survival over multiple
(15:40):
generations.
Our dolphins are non-migratory,unlike our great whales, that we
are having an amazing whaleseason, and I hope everyone's
enjoying watching our 50,000whales cruising past.
But our dolphins don't do that.
They live here year-round.
The Richmond River and the coasthere is part of a core habitat
(16:02):
for our resident Indo-Pacificbottleneze dolphins.
That species in particular isglobally listed as
near-threatened.
So a lot of us who have theprivilege of living along this
coast here often think, oh, Isee dolphins really regularly.
That's cool.
But that's actually reallysignificant because we now know
(16:24):
that a lot of our coastaldolphin species are in decline.
And that includes thisparticular species in a global
context.
So to see our little dolphinshere, part of our work has been
to look at how healthy theseanimals are and how they use
this habitat and what's theirhome range.
So for our little residentdolphins here, don't they range
(16:48):
very far.
They'll range from just south ofthe Valinabar right up to Lenox
Head, is the northern boundary,before we have another resident
community where they meet upthere.
So this area is what I calltheir home or their house.
The Richmond River is part oftheir kitchen.
This area is any major waterwayfor dolphins, is often a major
(17:12):
or a significant feedinghabitat.
And that's because of the fishthat live here.
It's the fish nursery that is ofimportance.
It's particularly important forthe mother and calves of our
resident community.
And that's because, as allmummers know, we use a lot more
energy if we've got dependentchildren.
(17:32):
And it's the same for ourdolphins.
We share so much with their wayof life, even though we're
terrestrial beings.
So for our dolphins, this istheir kitchen.
And I like to think of majorwaterways like this as they
should be like opening yourparents' fridge.
There should always be food inyour parents' fridge.
For these guys, they need to,it's always predictable that
(17:55):
prey is here.
However, for our Richmond River,that's not always the case, as
we know.
So part of our work over theseyears has been to try and map
out what it means for thesedolphins to have a habitat in
decline and in unhealthycondition and how that transfers
to the higher order predatorsfor our resident dolphins.
(18:18):
Now, over the years, theRichmond River, as we know, has
declined significantly.
We know, even though that, youknow, our science is still, I'm
still crunching numbers, I'mstill trying to get the samples
up, I'm still, you know, workingon all of that.
But we know that these dolphinsare highly, highly vulnerable.
They're one of the mostvulnerable communities of
(18:39):
dolphins throughout New SouthWales.
We know there's an increase inincidence of viruses and
diseases in our local dolphinshere.
We know that some of them havehigher levels of toxicity as
well.
We know that the use of thishabitat has changed over time
and not to the positive.
We know that this area is notjust important for this
(19:02):
generation of dolphins, but someof these dolphins I've known now
for over 20 years.
I know that their children havehit have been here.
The next generation are relyingon this river as well.
And for dolphins, it's not acase of, oh, there's an
unhealthy habitat, so they'regoing to move out.
It's not like that because theirconnection to this country and
(19:26):
the connection to their home andtheir kitchen, their bedroom,
which is just outside the rivermouth here, is so significant
and so strong.
They'll often remain in theseplaces despite those stresses.
So over the years of watchingthese animals and getting to
know these individuals, I'vealso noticed that our
communities here, our humancommunity, has become more aware
(19:50):
of this river and the state ofthis river.
To have a conversation like whatwe're having today is so
fabulous because a lot of actionstarts.
Starts with these conversationsand increasing awareness, but
also can increase the connectionto the arteries that help keep
us alive as well.
For our communities that are nowbecoming very concerned about
(20:15):
the state of these rivers, andwe do increasingly hear what we
can do to help this river, whatcan I do to actually make
change?
We've heard this and I've heardthat story increase over time.
This river here also connects,as I keep mentioning, to our
marine habitats along the coastand our marine protected areas.
(20:37):
They're all connected, both nearand far.
So what we've actually done toharness those questions within
our community and to help ourcommunity become more empowered
and directed to take action andunderstand how you can take
action.
We've uh created the Byron BayHope Spot, which is a globally
(20:58):
significant and recognized area,recognized for its biodiversity,
value, cultural significance,and also our community caring
for this country.
The Byron Bay Hope Spot extendsfrom Wardell up the river here,
all down all the way down theRichmond, across our coastline,
includes the Cape Byron MarinePark, and it will extend up to
(21:20):
the Tweed border as well veryshortly.
This space is notgovernment-owned, it's owned by
us, the people and the animalsthat live here as well.
Within this space, we want youto own it.
You own this hope.
You own the power to dosomething about caring for this
country as well.
(21:41):
Within the Byron Bay Hope Spot,we have uh lots of different
initiatives, uh, both that we'reorganizing within Dolphin
Research Australia and OceanEducation and Conservation, uh,
with different workshopshappening at different times of
year.
But we also have a collective ofthe Friends of Hope Spots, which
include uh lots of organizationsthat are here as well.
(22:02):
The idea is that you as acommunity can look at the Hope
Spot, you can join in on any ofthe actionables that different
organizations are doing and getinvolved.
But if you can't, that's okay aswell, because we've got lots of
different tips and lots ofthings that and suggestions that
you can do in your everydaylives to make this place a
(22:24):
better place and look after it.
Including the multiplegenerations of grandmothers and
daughters and mothers within ourdolphin communities as well.
So we encourage you all, you canuh come to our stall or look at
the Byron Bay Hopespot.org.auwebsite to find out more.
We've got some information atour stall.
You can take the Ocean ChampionPledge as well.
(22:45):
But do get out there and supportit because it is all up to us to
look after this country.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
I guess I've been here quite some time.
I grew up in Balloner in afamily fishing family,
commercial fishing withtrawlers.
I remember there was probablynearly 30 trawlers in Ballinor
when the car wharf was down nearthe RSL club.
Other morning before school,myself, a number of kids we used
to get down, we used to herringjig for herring, we'd sell them
to the bait shops.
The river was absolutely alive.
(23:19):
There wasn't a day you couldn'tsee the bottom of the pylons.
We used to scuba dive, we usedto snorkel all along here with
spearfish.
It was uh wonderful.
I've seen the decline I've seenin the river since I'm gonna
say, even just from the 80s to90s, is unbelievable.
Our river is terrible.
And I'm gonna put the blame out.
The Takeyan Barrage.
Now it's something that peopleare starting to realize
recently.
(23:40):
You can't cut the lungs out of aperson and expect you to keep
breathing.
Okay, that's what we've donewith the Take and Barrage.
We've shut the gates.
It's I'll stand correct, it'saround 900 hectares, I believe,
of eco saltwater ecosystem.
Fish used to breed there, it wasalive.
There's stories I've spoken topeople back in the 70s that they
said the barrage, if you wereout there, they called it the
(24:01):
Kakadu of the South.
And they akinned it to anaeroplane landing, and that was
the mullet showering and thefish showering through there.
If you go there now, it'scompletely rotten, it's a rotten
stink tank.
It's filthy, it stinks, and theacid coming out of there
actually burns your hands.
And I know because my hand, youcan have a look at my hands,
they're burnt from the acidthere.
And we've had numerous studiesafter study after study, and it
all points to the same thing.
(24:21):
Tamara Smith, I wish you werehere.
Sharon Codweller, I wish youwere here.
I spoke to them, everyoneagrees, every single person
agrees that Takeyan Barrage is aproblem.
Now I'm yet to I've yet to seein my lifetime as a commercial
fisherman when we've hadindigenous, recreational,
government, all types of agencyand people all agreeing on one
(24:41):
thing that the barrage has togo.
But here we are and it's stillthere.
And I don't understand whysomething isn't being done.
Now, I know it comes down to thefarmers, and I'm not thinking
it's not the farmers' fault.
They've been given a little bitof extra land on a floodplain,
don't farm on a floodplain.
It's not their fault they'vebeen allowed to do that, but it
needs to be compensated, itneeds to be purchased back, and
we need to return it.
Wetlands needs to be wetlands,okay?
(25:03):
Creeks and drains needs to becreeks.
That's what we need.
We want to recover the river,we've got to start the lungs
back up again.
Okay, we've got to get thekidneys back, we've got to get
all the filters back, and wewhat we can we can do it.
Now, as Craig said, that thestuff down at the Hexham, what
they've done down there, isamazing.
It's and they've basicallyopened the gates.
That's what they've done.
They've done a great job.
I've spoken to blokes that havebeen working on this for 30
(25:25):
years.
I don't believe I can spend 30years saying we need to open the
gates when everyone alreadyagrees to it.
It needs to be done.
So when one gentleman asked aquestion before, he said, What
can he do to assist with theriver?
I'd my answer would be grabyourself a grinder and go and
cut the gates off.
I'll applaud you because, inessence, Lee, honestly, that's
what needs to be done.
They need to go.
Okay, so if you want to knowwhat you can do to help save the
(25:46):
river, every time you get onthat Facebook, whatever social
media, bang on about it.
I can show you a thousandphotos.
There's fish up there, they'vegot their tumours hanging out of
them, they've got fins fallingoff.
It's disgusting, okay?
And then the water that's comingout of there is the cause.
I'm not saying it's the entirecause, but it's a really good
portion of it.
Okay, and you've got guys likeOsfished, you've got all these
organisations.
Now, you know, many years ago,I've seen a big swing with the
(26:07):
commercial fishing.
Many years ago, the commercialfishing would get blamed for
everything.
Okay, if it's a hot day, thecommercial fishing get blamed.
It's too hot, it's too cold.
It's always our fault.
It's not.
And people I'm seeing a turnround, it's not our fault.
We're a sustainable fishery now.
We're stamped, we've doneeverything we can.
Our gear, the the restrictionswe've got, and everything is
there.
We're on your side.
We want the river.
Okay, and it's in our interestto have that river healthy.
(26:28):
It needs to be healthy foreveryone.
Okay, if it's healthy foreveryone, it's healthy for us.
You've got a fantasticcommercial fishing industry here
that's just been strangled offby the Takay and Baraj and the
issues that are going on there.
So, look, I haven't got muchmore to say, I guess, with that.
I I'd everything Craig said, I'm100% behind.
And support them guys.
And if you get any chance totalk to a member, any of them,
(26:48):
guys, just throw the supportbehind getting rid of it.
And as at the end of the day,like everything, it comes down
to money.
The government needs to step itup.
Now, the government done thewrong thing, okay, and they've
allowed this to happen.
They need to fix the job.
Okay.
Another thing is Rouse Water.
Now, Rouse Water isn't reallyaccurate in what they say.
Now, Rouse Water only recentlypromoted on Facebook that they
manage floodgates and how what agood job they do.
(27:12):
They don't.
They don't work.
Now, the floodgates, all themechanisms to open the
floodgates have been taken away.
They can't be opened.
They're not used.
Now, an active floodgate, if youlook up what an active floodgate
is, an active floodgate is afloodgate that's open to allow
the flow of fish, marine life,and salt water into the areas.
Upon a flood, the gates areshut, so when the water comes
(27:33):
down the river, it can't pushback up into the barrage.
It doesn't occur.
But they get around this.
And what they do is they've gota thing called a sluice door.
Can anyone guess how big thesluice door is for 900 hectares
of shark, mullet, all the otherfish that have got to swim
through it on a tidal flow?
How big do you think the sluicedoor is they use?
Have you seen a full scap pieceof paper?
I'm not joking, it's 30centimetres by 30 centimetres,
(27:56):
is the sluice door on the gatesup here at our barrage.
That's fact.
That's what they claim is anopen floodgate.
Now, if you go up there, thefloodgates will be as long as
this tent and feed that wholesystem when you've got that
open.
And to make it better, it'sactually broken and it has been
for about six months, and itisn't even to be open and
closed.
So, Rouse Council, yeah, you'remaking some big claims, it's not
(28:18):
quite accurate.
Okay, you're not managing thefloodgates and they need to go.
So I I think that it's a it's abit of a feel-good to make it
look like it's happening.
It's not, it's not.
They need to be fixed.
Half the floodgates that aremanaged by the Rouse Um Council,
they're in charge of, so thatmeans they have to open and
close them.
They don't because they can't.
The other half, the farmers areup to them.
I'm pretty sure the farmersdon't do it.
(28:39):
And I go up there in my boat,most of the cables are broken,
most of them don't even haveopening doors, and they're just
sat there.
So, as Craig said, what happensis you can imagine our river,
and you've got a great big areaof ecosystem of salt water.
Then when it flows up, now ontop of that, salt, but just by a
little one on the side, um, acidsoil.
Acid soil and acid water, saltwater neutralises it.
(29:02):
Simple as that.
Put the salt water there, itneutralises it done.
Great big ecosystem, and closethe gate, it turns to a big
stinking rock tank, fills upwith water.
When it gets to a certainheight, and we get so much
pressure, the gates just openthemselves and all that stinking
filter.
It's poured out in the river,straight down past near the
sugar mill, out the barrage, anddown here, and that's what we
(29:22):
see.
We can have festivals, we can wecan celebrate with all the
things until that goes andthat's fixed up, nothing's gonna
change.
Okay, we're still gonna see, andit's just gonna get worse.
It really is.
So thank you for your support,and I'd like everyone I do a few
truth factors here on what'sactually going on with the
river.
And if you think it's bad, timesit by 20, because it's a hell of
a lot worse.
Okay, thank you.
unknown (29:48):
A lot of us can focus on that one.
SPEAKER_03 (29:52):
So the question is, is there a petition?
Not currently, like there is alot of work that's being done.
I think probably the best way tostart is you literally can just
Google the Tekian and maybe likeOzfish, because Ozfish has got a
long-running project in thatarea.
Ballinar Council is aware of theissue.
It's become obviously much moreprevalent because of this year
and the fish kill in March, butit is about sustained pressure.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
I don't know what you want to say to that, but
yeah, on top of that, you canactually get online, and this is
interesting, you can have a lookat they've got um gauges on the
um the oxygen levels in thewater.
There is none.
So you go up there, and oxygenlevel, I think, whether it's
fish can survive in two orthree, I'm not really sure of
the science of it, but it's itcan't support life.
It cannot support life.
So the the water that's up thereis that rotten, it can't even
(30:34):
support any life in there.
That'll give you an indication.
Now, uh what you can do, okay.
I'd say, right, write to TamaraSmith, write to all these guys.
Look, at the end of the day,they've someone's got to make a
decision to open the gates.
That's that's just the end ofthe line, what it is.
And it's just it it's it justdoes my head in that we've even
got see it's government reports.
They didn't want that released.
And they even say that that'sbad.
(30:55):
Every single agency and everyindigenous, everyone says it's
bad, but we still got it.
And we're talking seven gates.
Seven pins, seven gates.
Need to go.
It's done that much damage,still there.
If you can explain to me howthat is, I don't know.
I don't know.
So write to your members, dowhatever you can, stand on your
head, sing jingle bells,whatever you need to do, and let
people know that that is not on.
(31:16):
That is not the river you want.
And we do have the worst riveron the east coast of Australia,
and here we celebrate, and weshould be celebrating the
destruction of the place.
It's shocking.
SPEAKER_03 (31:23):
Thanks, Mark.
Round of applause for Mark.
Dropping the hard truths.
SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
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SPEAKER_03 (34:15):
My name's Tom Wolfe.
I founded an organization calledRevive the Northern Rivers with
my fiance over there maybealmost five years ago now, and
have tried to put this festivaltogether with my fellow MCs,
Zoe, Kristen, Emma fromBallinar, Allison.
Yeah, that's a heap, but I can'tthink of them all now.
Thanks to them, thanks toeveryone and all the stalls that
(34:38):
came out today and supported,and it's great to have such a
good turnout and such bloodygood weather.
Yeah, so as I said, I wrote thisstory at 5.30 this morning.
Usually I like winging it, buttoday I decided I'd actually get
prepared.
So I went down to the localcreek where I live on the
plateau up at Alstonville andyeah, wrote this little story.
So I hope you enjoy it.
(34:59):
Rivers have flowed through mesince the beginning.
Stories of rivers transferred bymy ancestors through blood,
connecting my past, present,future.
My family arrived at this riverseven generations past.
I wonder how it flowed throughtheir lives and what they
thought about the people whoknew it best, the many clans
from the Bunjalong and Githabulnations that had lived and loved
(35:20):
beside this river since timebegan here.
I wonder if this transmission ofwater through my own family
line, one life after the other,carried memories embedded in it.
And that all those water storieswere swallowed up in utero and
carried with me to this day, asI stand here before you now,
beside this very same river,flowing always.
My family arrived to meet theRiver West in a place we now
(35:43):
call Tatum.
Like most new arrivals on thisancient continent, they came
chasing the most valuablecommodity of all, timber, and
lots of it.
It's hard not to think of whatcould have been had the thirst
for timber been not sounquenchable.
Felling timber for productionhad it had its costs, but it was
the eventual clearing of vasttracts of primeval gondwanan
(36:04):
rainforest across the rich soilsof the plateau, all for the sake
of more pasture that was thereal knife in the back.
This river has always been here,but as I grew older our stories
converged.
My father, a saltwater manhimself of the sandstone country
down around the Secret River,taught me to sail here.
Learning the dance of wind andwater captivated me, and the
(36:24):
relative calm of the riverflowing in, out, in with the
tide allowed me to buildconfidence.
On days when the wind didn'tblow, we'd hoon around on the
old tinny.
The 15 horsepower outboard,redlining as we caught air off
the unbroken swell lines curvingtheir way into the bar.
My memory may come withrose-colored glasses, but in
that collection of formativememories, the river rarely ran
(36:47):
brown.
My mother's life as a young girlwas inseparable from the river.
From a house in RiverviewAvenue, a short float from here,
a lasting bond was formed by myother bloodline, the sixth in a
line of seven generations toshare this water.
Countless hours spent divinginto salty water of the estuary,
cutting feet on the oysters,fishing, playing, laughing,
(37:08):
surfing, and swimming.
Water stories from thebeginning.
As I left my teenage yearsbehind, me and the river
diverged from each other.
I saw it new places and waterswhile the river remained here
flowing, slowly suffering undera weight of history that only
seemed to get heavier.
Wherever I went, I was never farfrom water.
Its pull always undeniable.
I slowly built my understandingof ecology and how ecosystems
(37:31):
function, mostly through the artof observation.
Curiosity was a great teacher.
For a decade I followed wateraround the world, from Tasmania
to Darwin, Patagonia to Alaska.
I witnessed rivers who aremostly left to their own
devices, and others who are leftto absorb the byproducts of
modern human existence.
Ignorance may be bliss, but itwon't save a river from dying a
(37:52):
slow death.
Then the pandemic.
As a virus ravaged parts of theworld, I returned home, back
again to the river.
We all watched as air travelground to a halt, whole
societies turned inwards, and insome places, ecosystems were
given enough breathing spacefrom the modern capitalist
machine, if only for a littlewhile.
With my own space and time, bornof redundancies and
(38:14):
unemployment, I eventually foundmyself in the local library
chasing cognitive stimulation.
The surf was good that year, butI needed something more.
I spent hours pouring over localhistory books and bungee-lung
yarns in between surfs.
Slowly but surely, I began tobuild a picture in my mind about
what this river once was, of thelife systems it was able to
support.
(38:34):
Not a day goes by that I don'twish I could go back, if only
for a few minutes, to see whothis river once was, once upon a
time.
But since we still haven'tfigured out time travel, I'm
left with historical records andthe limits of my own
imagination.
What I learned through thosehours reading books was that
this river has a virus of itsown.
A virus so insipid andcontagious it destroys much in
(38:56):
its spread.
Unlike COVID-19, the symptomsaren't sore throat, a fever, or
respiratory distress.
The capitalist virus hasindoctrinated us all into an
idea that there can be endlessgrowth on a finite planet.
By compromising our immunesystem, it has somehow convinced
us that our life support systemsare nothing more than drains and
dams to be exploited.
Have you ever looked at a riversystem from the sky?
(39:18):
Ever seen the arteries reachingout across landscapes on the
driest inhabited continent onEarth?
It's hard not to see thesimilarities to the systems that
sustain our own bodies.
We are 75% water after all.
As doctors and scientists acrossthe planet scrambled to create
vaccines to stem the spread, Itoo searched for my own
solutions for an ailing river.
But I quickly learned thatmistakes made over centuries
(39:40):
can't be put right overnight.
Good things take time and a lotof patience.
Something I struggle with.
But a concerted effort and arethink of our most crucial
priorities, anything ispossible.
Through creating Revive theNorthern Rivers almost five
years ago, I have shared manystories, made plenty of
mistakes, and learnt more than Iever could have imagined about
the most important.
River in my life.
(40:01):
Ultimately, water has been agreat connector and it has led
me to some great water people.
Since I don't get this chancevery often, I'd like to take a
moment to acknowledge some ofthem now.
To Marcus Ferguson for hisinfectious curiosity, good
humour, and deep knowledge ofthis place.
Anthony Akrett for his quietpatience and determination.
Greg Telford for his wisdom andunwavering resilience.
(40:22):
I hope you saw Greg this morningspeaking.
Rob McFarland for one of themost important books I've ever
read.
My parents for leading me towater, and my fiance for
listening to my hair-brainedideas and helping me transform
them into something coherent andsensical.
Thank you.
Last week, Mika Mika Ballant, Idon't think I pronounced that
wrong, posed me a question for astory that she put together in
the lead up to this festival.
(40:44):
She asked simply, What is ariver to you?
My reply was as follows.
A river is a living system, anentity unto itself that sees and
feels things much like we do aspeople.
To connect with a river over alifetime is to make a friend,
someone you come to understandon a deeper level, and
ultimately someone you'll dowhatever you can to care for and
celebrate.
Today is a day for celebrationto connect with our river.
(41:06):
But tomorrow I ask of you onething.
Take five minutes out of yourday and ask yourself the
question (41:11):
what is a river to me?
It could be one of the mostexpansive and important
questions you ever ask.
SPEAKER_04 (41:25):
After attending that amazing day where the water was
finally clear and the riverlooked amazing, but really fresh
in our minds was the fact thatthis river had been so brown to
the point of being black,smelled so bad, was kind of
scary to go near, and certainlyyou weren't putting your head in
that water.
We're feeling all that, but alsofeeling motivated through
(41:46):
listening to the speakers.
And one of the biggestmotivators for me was that
question that Tom was asked andthen asked of us, where he said,
What is a river to you?
And I I left Riverfest thinking,Yeah, what is a river to me?
What is the Richmond River?
What is a local river in myarea?
What does it mean to me?
(42:07):
And I actually set out the nextday on our 30-foot Warham
double-hulled sailing canoe witha friend from Hawaii, Chris
Mioshiro, friend from NewZealand, Milo Inglis, and then
other local friends and leadersin community and coastal
conservation.
And so we set out to answer thatquestion.
(42:29):
What is a river to me?
So tune in for that episodecoming out soon, and thanks for
listening.
SPEAKER_01 (42:38):
We'll be continuing today's conversation on
Instagram, where we're at WaterPeople Podcast.
And you can subscribe to ourvery infrequent newsletter to
get book recommendations,questions we're pondering,
behind the scenes glimpses intorecording the podcast, and more
via our website,Waterpeoplepodcast.com.
Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the
aquatic experiences that shapewho we become back on land.
I'm your host, Lauren Hill,joined by my partner Dave
Rastevich.
Here we get to talk story withsome of the most interesting and
adept water folk on the planet.
We acknowledge the BunjalongNation, the traditional
custodians of the land andwaters where we work and play,
(00:26):
who have cared for this seacountry for tens of thousands of
years.
Respect and gratitude to allFirst Nations people, including
elders, past, present, andemerging.
This season is supported byPatagonia, whose purpose-driven
mission is to use business tosave our home planet.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01):
Once it crossed the coast up near Brisbane, all that
rain on the southern side of thestorm, which was sort of the
more severe side of the storm,came down in our northern rivers
region.
And you know, typically that'sour wet season.
We've kind of prepared formonths, some years, where it
just doesn't stop raining monthafter month, and within those
(01:22):
months you can have a storm likethis.
So it wasn't too out of theordinary, though the storm surge
and the volume of fresh watercoming down into the river
systems was pretty extreme.
And so what we saw was actuallyin our local Richmond River,
which is just a few kilometresaway from where we live, and
(01:44):
from some of the most celebratedsurfing spots in Australia, you
know, this is the land of LongRight Point, and a lot of us
live here mostly because ofthose beautiful waves and the
incredible flow of sand and flowof water that comes along this
coast interacting with riversystems and headlands and beach
breaks and offshore reefs.
(02:05):
And so when that volume of freshwater started moving through
these really large river systemsand the Richmond River is
enormous with you know 400square kilometres of floodplain
within it.
The river was filled withsediment from industrial ag
(02:28):
farming practices, washing downfrom where there used to once be
many trees holding the landscapetogether.
All those trees have beenremoved and replaced with sugar
cane or macadamia plantations,or just left with cattle
roaming.
And so that sediment coming intothe streams and creeks and
drains is bringing with it a lotof soil and a lot of the
(02:52):
contaminants from industrial agpractices.
So we actually saw these events,black water events.
It's called Blackwater, whereessentially tens of thousands of
fish were dying in our localriver system, and it got so bad
that the local town that is, youknow, right smack bang in the
centre of the Richmond River,which is Ballinar, stunk of dead
(03:14):
fish and basically became like adisaster zone, really.
Just disgusting water pouringout of our creeks and streams
into the main river system andthen out into the ocean.
And that's where one day when wewere walking along the beach
behind where we live, which isnear Lennox Head and Seven Mile
Beach, uh, when we have stormslike this, we like to sort of
(03:34):
comb the beach and look foranything that might have washed
up that shouldn't be there overthe years.
That's been things like youknow, barrels of pesticide that
have been washed off of farmsinto the river and then down
along the coast filled withgnarly chemicals, all kinds of
bales of mulch and feed wrappedin plastic, fencing materials,
and also just like urban rubbishentering stormwater systems and
(03:58):
washing down streets and intothe river.
So we just went for a walk, andwhen we did that, I just got a
tiny nick on the bottom of myright foot, just under my little
toe, like ridiculously smallcut.
But we were walking along theshoreline where the brown foam
essentially sits on that hightide line when we get these sort
(04:19):
of big weather events, and youcan smell the contaminants in
that brown foam.
Everyone's urged to not swim orsurf anywhere near that foam for
you know serious reasons.
Mostly if you have that waterentering your ears or in your
mouth or up your nose, you'regonna get really crook.
(04:39):
But walking on the beach, Ididn't really think of that.
I thought, you know, we're juston the high tide line.
What harm can come from that?
But harm did come from that.
And within about a week, my footswelled right up.
My tiny pinky was nearly as bigas my big toe, really fat and
swollen and like a purplecolour, and uh and then my
(05:01):
joints started to ache, my kneebehind my knee, in my groin, in
my armpit, so my like glandsstarted to really hurt, and my
head started to spin, and Iliterally just felt like I had
blood poisoning, which I've hadbefore from having you know bad
cuts in tropical areas that havejust become infected.
And I didn't realise that thiscould happen here though, where
(05:22):
we live.
We've never had a history ofgetting that kind of level of
illness and sickness from rainyand freshwater events happening
where the water turns brown.
But a tipping point was reachedthis year in 2025 where many of
us became ill and the biggestfish kills happened in our river
system here that any of us haveseen.
(05:44):
And so, anyway, I ended up inhospital, uh, had three days of
having antibiotics intravenouslyput in my body to beat the
infection.
And it was there while I waslying in the bed.
You know, if anyone's been inhospital and receiving drugs or
things like antibiotics, you'vegot a bit of time.
You're sitting there thinkingabout how did I get here, what
can I do to avoid this happeningagain.
(06:05):
And it was in that moment that Irealized I I didn't know enough
about our river systems.
I didn't know enough about theproblem of toxicity in our river
systems.
We live in this beautiful areawhere there's not too much
humanity and we look around andwe think we live in a green,
clean ecosystem, especially whenwe have somewhere like the Gold
Coast up the road where there'sextreme development and a lot of
(06:28):
people come from the Gold Coastto visit where we live in the
northern rivers to get somespace and to breathe a bit
easier.
But really, the truth of it isthat we live in an
industrialized space here.
There is industrial-scaleagricultural practices all
around us that are spraying andaltering the landscape in ways
that you know we're now reallystarting to understand are very
(06:49):
harmful not only for theecosystem but also for
ourselves.
And so I realize I need to seekout people who are working on
this issue, people who couldanswer those sort of questions
like what is going on with theriver, what can we do about it,
how can we avoid this happeningnext wet season?
And so naturally the surfingcommunity around here is pretty
large, and within that communitythere is bound to be people
(07:13):
working on this issue, so I Iseek them out, and that is Tom
Wolfe, a young fellow fromLennox Head area, who
multi-generations in this regionand a good perspective on how
the Richmond River onceflourished and was thriving, and
what state it's in now.
And then he also led me to meetZoe White, who works for Ozfish,
(07:38):
a great organization working onriver health, freshwater,
saltwater issues around thecountry.
And basically we just startedyarning.
Uh, what happened from there wasa kind of education just through
having cups of tea and surfstogether.
Really, what they shared with mewas that there is a lot of
(07:58):
people studying our riversystems in this area.
There is a lot of data, there isa lot of understanding around
the issues.
However, there isn't a lot ofcommunity engagement, there
isn't a lot of volunteers, thereisn't a lot of action, even
though the diagnosis, the theunderstanding of what's
happening to these great rivers,this this enormous river system
(08:20):
here, especially the RichmondRiver.
And so what I realized in thoseconversations was that that need
of having more people involvedwas perhaps something I could
work on.
So I basically came up with theidea of bringing people together
from my circles, which are thesurfing, diving, sailing, and
(08:42):
adventuring sort of circles inthe area, and even growers to a
degree, farmers and stuff.
And we basically came up withthe idea to do this event called
the Rivers Run, where we wouldessentially experience in one
day, in one go, the two riversthat hem us in, the two rivers
that create this type ofterritorial boundary to a degree
(09:05):
of our region, and that is theBrunswick River and the Richmond
River.
Within those two rivers is anincredible Cape Byron Marine
Park, unbelievable oceanicterritory, just a mixing area,
nothing gully, Julian Rocks, theisland off of Byron Bay.
Most people would have seen ifthey've come to this area, is
one of the most celebrateddiving spots in Australia, if
(09:28):
not the world, where you see allthe creatures from the Coral Sea
coming down and swimming aroundand migrating here.
You see so many creatures fromthe temperate waters down south
coming and mixing here, andwe're right in that line where
the two worlds sort of combine.
And so, because of thatbiodiversity, this area has been
deemed a global hope spot giventhat there is so many great
(09:51):
things existing in our watershere, and such a great uh
engaged community when it comesto the ecology and the story of
this space.
So, what I wanted to do was haveus run, paddle, and swim between
the two rivers, roughly 50kilometres, and in that there
was the intention to basicallyget some young, fit and able
(10:15):
volunteers aware of the workthat Ozfish, the river keepers,
and Tom with Revive the NorthernRivers are doing so that when
they do their plant outs to helpthe rivers and to try and
reinstall the filtration systemsvia all those trees, those
mangroves and the grasses thatwere once everywhere along these
(10:38):
river systems, that we could getplenty of people there who are
fit, young and able to do thethe work and do the hard work,
raise a few dollars, but alsojust light up our community when
it comes to understanding howbeautiful our space is.
So that's what we did.
We created the Rivers Run.
It carried out in August with anice west wind and some good
challenges rounding the Cape ofByron with a lot of us hitting
(11:02):
the wall basically, and a few ofus completing the whole
challenge, if many of us notdoing the whole challenge, which
has set us up to do this everyyear and keep bringing more and
more people into this way ofcelebrating our coastal region
and also tuning in and seeinghow we can assist with the local
groups that are working on RiverHealth, Coastal Health.
(11:23):
So the River Runs event was alsoaimed at beating the drum and
helping to make some noise whenit comes to the Riverfest event,
which was an annual event on theshores of the Richmond River in
the heart of Ballinar, wherespecialists, cultural leaders,
(11:44):
fishers, surfers, scientists,conservationists would meet and
basically strengthen theirrelationships and inform each
other and inform the public whoare very concerned about what we
can do, what state the river'sin, and where we can move
forward and uh start to cleanthe river up.
So what we have is a snippet ofthe Riverfest event that
(12:07):
happened in September, towardsthe end of September in 2025,
and we hear from Liz Hawkins,who is local dolphin whisperer,
the most knowledgeable personwhen it comes to the dolphin
communities, the residentialdolphin communities that live
along our coastline that weshare lineups with that we
marvel at when we're outsurfing, and they are underneath
(12:30):
us, all around us, and sometimesover us in the air, jumping out
of waves.
Liz informs us on the state ofthe rivers in relation to
dolphin community health.
We also hear from a localfisher, longtime fishing family
representative Mark, who tellsit how it is when it comes to
the issues with the RichmondRiver and how we can move
(12:51):
forward and get busy doing thereparation and the revival work
for the river.
And then we also hear from TomWolfe, who runs the Revive the
Northern Rivers group, who isconstantly writing beautifully
and eloquently with insightsinto river health and what we
can do as concerned coastalcustodians.
(13:14):
He shares his perspective andreally just lights us up.
The idea of being able to attenda community event not long after
such a tragedy as a Blackwaterevent, mass fish kills, many of
us getting sick like I did withstaph infections, the collapse
of oyster fisheries, the stressand struggle of fisheries in
(13:37):
general, the struggle of farmersinundated with water and
drainage issues.
You know, there's so much goingon in our local ecology and our
local culture that these sort ofevents like Riverfest just feel
so important to attend and alsoso important to record and share
like this, so that maybe otherscan learn from us and hopefully
(13:58):
others can share with us whatthey've done in similar
situations with river healtharound the world because this is
not an isolated problem.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
So thanks everyone for coming out today and
celebrating this amazing riversystem on World Rivers Day.
And you know, this river is partof the arteries of the earth.
It's like all of these kinds ofwaterways, they're part of
maintaining these healthysystems and healthy oceans.
(14:33):
And as we know, we live on ablue planet.
My own journey with this riverstarted over 20 years ago.
I started the first uh dolphinand whale research in Ballina
area.
Uh, and over those years,there's been a lot of changes,
but part of my research herebegan to understand how these
(14:53):
dolphins use this area and thisriver and their systems.
What do they need in their ownwildlife to survive?
What areas are important tothem?
And how does it work withintheir own social systems and
populations?
And what does that mean whenthey work out along the coast as
well?
So, part of my work over 20years has been to understand the
(15:17):
structure of our coastal dolphinpopulations and understand areas
that are of importance to ourresident dolphin communities.
Here in the Richmond, we haveone particular community of
resident dolphins where thisarea is of critical importance
to their survival.
It is in critical importance fortheir survival over multiple
(15:40):
generations.
Our dolphins are non-migratory,unlike our great whales, that we
are having an amazing whaleseason, and I hope everyone's
enjoying watching our 50,000whales cruising past.
But our dolphins don't do that.
They live here year-round.
The Richmond River and the coasthere is part of a core habitat
(16:02):
for our resident Indo-Pacificbottleneze dolphins.
That species in particular isglobally listed as
near-threatened.
So a lot of us who have theprivilege of living along this
coast here often think, oh, Isee dolphins really regularly.
That's cool.
But that's actually reallysignificant because we now know
(16:24):
that a lot of our coastaldolphin species are in decline.
And that includes thisparticular species in a global
context.
So to see our little dolphinshere, part of our work has been
to look at how healthy theseanimals are and how they use
this habitat and what's theirhome range.
So for our little residentdolphins here, don't they range
(16:48):
very far.
They'll range from just south ofthe Valinabar right up to Lenox
Head, is the northern boundary,before we have another resident
community where they meet upthere.
So this area is what I calltheir home or their house.
The Richmond River is part oftheir kitchen.
This area is any major waterwayfor dolphins, is often a major
(17:12):
or a significant feedinghabitat.
And that's because of the fishthat live here.
It's the fish nursery that is ofimportance.
It's particularly important forthe mother and calves of our
resident community.
And that's because, as allmummers know, we use a lot more
energy if we've got dependentchildren.
(17:32):
And it's the same for ourdolphins.
We share so much with their wayof life, even though we're
terrestrial beings.
So for our dolphins, this istheir kitchen.
And I like to think of majorwaterways like this as they
should be like opening yourparents' fridge.
There should always be food inyour parents' fridge.
For these guys, they need to,it's always predictable that
(17:55):
prey is here.
However, for our Richmond River,that's not always the case, as
we know.
So part of our work over theseyears has been to try and map
out what it means for thesedolphins to have a habitat in
decline and in unhealthycondition and how that transfers
to the higher order predatorsfor our resident dolphins.
(18:18):
Now, over the years, theRichmond River, as we know, has
declined significantly.
We know, even though that, youknow, our science is still, I'm
still crunching numbers, I'mstill trying to get the samples
up, I'm still, you know, workingon all of that.
But we know that these dolphinsare highly, highly vulnerable.
They're one of the mostvulnerable communities of
(18:39):
dolphins throughout New SouthWales.
We know there's an increase inincidence of viruses and
diseases in our local dolphinshere.
We know that some of them havehigher levels of toxicity as
well.
We know that the use of thishabitat has changed over time
and not to the positive.
We know that this area is notjust important for this
(19:02):
generation of dolphins, but someof these dolphins I've known now
for over 20 years.
I know that their children havehit have been here.
The next generation are relyingon this river as well.
And for dolphins, it's not acase of, oh, there's an
unhealthy habitat, so they'regoing to move out.
It's not like that because theirconnection to this country and
(19:26):
the connection to their home andtheir kitchen, their bedroom,
which is just outside the rivermouth here, is so significant
and so strong.
They'll often remain in theseplaces despite those stresses.
So over the years of watchingthese animals and getting to
know these individuals, I'vealso noticed that our
communities here, our humancommunity, has become more aware
(19:50):
of this river and the state ofthis river.
To have a conversation like whatwe're having today is so
fabulous because a lot of actionstarts.
Starts with these conversationsand increasing awareness, but
also can increase the connectionto the arteries that help keep
us alive as well.
For our communities that are nowbecoming very concerned about
(20:15):
the state of these rivers, andwe do increasingly hear what we
can do to help this river, whatcan I do to actually make
change?
We've heard this and I've heardthat story increase over time.
This river here also connects,as I keep mentioning, to our
marine habitats along the coastand our marine protected areas.
(20:37):
They're all connected, both nearand far.
So what we've actually done toharness those questions within
our community and to help ourcommunity become more empowered
and directed to take action andunderstand how you can take
action.
We've uh created the Byron BayHope Spot, which is a globally
(20:58):
significant and recognized area,recognized for its biodiversity,
value, cultural significance,and also our community caring
for this country.
The Byron Bay Hope Spot extendsfrom Wardell up the river here,
all down all the way down theRichmond, across our coastline,
includes the Cape Byron MarinePark, and it will extend up to
(21:20):
the Tweed border as well veryshortly.
This space is notgovernment-owned, it's owned by
us, the people and the animalsthat live here as well.
Within this space, we want youto own it.
You own this hope.
You own the power to dosomething about caring for this
country as well.
(21:41):
Within the Byron Bay Hope Spot,we have uh lots of different
initiatives, uh, both that we'reorganizing within Dolphin
Research Australia and OceanEducation and Conservation, uh,
with different workshopshappening at different times of
year.
But we also have a collective ofthe Friends of Hope Spots, which
include uh lots of organizationsthat are here as well.
(22:02):
The idea is that you as acommunity can look at the Hope
Spot, you can join in on any ofthe actionables that different
organizations are doing and getinvolved.
But if you can't, that's okay aswell, because we've got lots of
different tips and lots ofthings that and suggestions that
you can do in your everydaylives to make this place a
(22:24):
better place and look after it.
Including the multiplegenerations of grandmothers and
daughters and mothers within ourdolphin communities as well.
So we encourage you all, you canuh come to our stall or look at
the Byron Bay Hopespot.org.auwebsite to find out more.
We've got some information atour stall.
You can take the Ocean ChampionPledge as well.
(22:45):
But do get out there and supportit because it is all up to us to
look after this country.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
I guess I've been here quite some time.
I grew up in Balloner in afamily fishing family,
commercial fishing withtrawlers.
I remember there was probablynearly 30 trawlers in Ballinor
when the car wharf was down nearthe RSL club.
Other morning before school,myself, a number of kids we used
to get down, we used to herringjig for herring, we'd sell them
to the bait shops.
The river was absolutely alive.
(23:19):
There wasn't a day you couldn'tsee the bottom of the pylons.
We used to scuba dive, we usedto snorkel all along here with
spearfish.
It was uh wonderful.
I've seen the decline I've seenin the river since I'm gonna
say, even just from the 80s to90s, is unbelievable.
Our river is terrible.
And I'm gonna put the blame out.
The Takeyan Barrage.
Now it's something that peopleare starting to realize
recently.
(23:40):
You can't cut the lungs out of aperson and expect you to keep
breathing.
Okay, that's what we've donewith the Take and Barrage.
We've shut the gates.
It's I'll stand correct, it'saround 900 hectares, I believe,
of eco saltwater ecosystem.
Fish used to breed there, it wasalive.
There's stories I've spoken topeople back in the 70s that they
said the barrage, if you wereout there, they called it the
(24:01):
Kakadu of the South.
And they akinned it to anaeroplane landing, and that was
the mullet showering and thefish showering through there.
If you go there now, it'scompletely rotten, it's a rotten
stink tank.
It's filthy, it stinks, and theacid coming out of there
actually burns your hands.
And I know because my hand, youcan have a look at my hands,
they're burnt from the acidthere.
And we've had numerous studiesafter study after study, and it
all points to the same thing.
(24:21):
Tamara Smith, I wish you werehere.
Sharon Codweller, I wish youwere here.
I spoke to them, everyoneagrees, every single person
agrees that Takeyan Barrage is aproblem.
Now I'm yet to I've yet to seein my lifetime as a commercial
fisherman when we've hadindigenous, recreational,
government, all types of agencyand people all agreeing on one
(24:41):
thing that the barrage has togo.
But here we are and it's stillthere.
And I don't understand whysomething isn't being done.
Now, I know it comes down to thefarmers, and I'm not thinking
it's not the farmers' fault.
They've been given a little bitof extra land on a floodplain,
don't farm on a floodplain.
It's not their fault they'vebeen allowed to do that, but it
needs to be compensated, itneeds to be purchased back, and
we need to return it.
Wetlands needs to be wetlands,okay?
(25:03):
Creeks and drains needs to becreeks.
That's what we need.
We want to recover the river,we've got to start the lungs
back up again.
Okay, we've got to get thekidneys back, we've got to get
all the filters back, and wewhat we can we can do it.
Now, as Craig said, that thestuff down at the Hexham, what
they've done down there, isamazing.
It's and they've basicallyopened the gates.
That's what they've done.
They've done a great job.
I've spoken to blokes that havebeen working on this for 30
(25:25):
years.
I don't believe I can spend 30years saying we need to open the
gates when everyone alreadyagrees to it.
It needs to be done.
So when one gentleman asked aquestion before, he said, What
can he do to assist with theriver?
I'd my answer would be grabyourself a grinder and go and
cut the gates off.
I'll applaud you because, inessence, Lee, honestly, that's
what needs to be done.
They need to go.
Okay, so if you want to knowwhat you can do to help save the
(25:46):
river, every time you get onthat Facebook, whatever social
media, bang on about it.
I can show you a thousandphotos.
There's fish up there, they'vegot their tumours hanging out of
them, they've got fins fallingoff.
It's disgusting, okay?
And then the water that's comingout of there is the cause.
I'm not saying it's the entirecause, but it's a really good
portion of it.
Okay, and you've got guys likeOsfished, you've got all these
organisations.
Now, you know, many years ago,I've seen a big swing with the
(26:07):
commercial fishing.
Many years ago, the commercialfishing would get blamed for
everything.
Okay, if it's a hot day, thecommercial fishing get blamed.
It's too hot, it's too cold.
It's always our fault.
It's not.
And people I'm seeing a turnround, it's not our fault.
We're a sustainable fishery now.
We're stamped, we've doneeverything we can.
Our gear, the the restrictionswe've got, and everything is
there.
We're on your side.
We want the river.
Okay, and it's in our interestto have that river healthy.
(26:28):
It needs to be healthy foreveryone.
Okay, if it's healthy foreveryone, it's healthy for us.
You've got a fantasticcommercial fishing industry here
that's just been strangled offby the Takay and Baraj and the
issues that are going on there.
So, look, I haven't got muchmore to say, I guess, with that.
I I'd everything Craig said, I'm100% behind.
And support them guys.
And if you get any chance totalk to a member, any of them,
(26:48):
guys, just throw the supportbehind getting rid of it.
And as at the end of the day,like everything, it comes down
to money.
The government needs to step itup.
Now, the government done thewrong thing, okay, and they've
allowed this to happen.
They need to fix the job.
Okay.
Another thing is Rouse Water.
Now, Rouse Water isn't reallyaccurate in what they say.
Now, Rouse Water only recentlypromoted on Facebook that they
manage floodgates and how what agood job they do.
(27:12):
They don't.
They don't work.
Now, the floodgates, all themechanisms to open the
floodgates have been taken away.
They can't be opened.
They're not used.
Now, an active floodgate, if youlook up what an active floodgate
is, an active floodgate is afloodgate that's open to allow
the flow of fish, marine life,and salt water into the areas.
Upon a flood, the gates areshut, so when the water comes
(27:33):
down the river, it can't pushback up into the barrage.
It doesn't occur.
But they get around this.
And what they do is they've gota thing called a sluice door.
Can anyone guess how big thesluice door is for 900 hectares
of shark, mullet, all the otherfish that have got to swim
through it on a tidal flow?
How big do you think the sluicedoor is they use?
Have you seen a full scap pieceof paper?
I'm not joking, it's 30centimetres by 30 centimetres,
(27:56):
is the sluice door on the gatesup here at our barrage.
That's fact.
That's what they claim is anopen floodgate.
Now, if you go up there, thefloodgates will be as long as
this tent and feed that wholesystem when you've got that
open.
And to make it better, it'sactually broken and it has been
for about six months, and itisn't even to be open and
closed.
So, Rouse Council, yeah, you'remaking some big claims, it's not
(28:18):
quite accurate.
Okay, you're not managing thefloodgates and they need to go.
So I I think that it's a it's abit of a feel-good to make it
look like it's happening.
It's not, it's not.
They need to be fixed.
Half the floodgates that aremanaged by the Rouse Um Council,
they're in charge of, so thatmeans they have to open and
close them.
They don't because they can't.
The other half, the farmers areup to them.
I'm pretty sure the farmersdon't do it.
(28:39):
And I go up there in my boat,most of the cables are broken,
most of them don't even haveopening doors, and they're just
sat there.
So, as Craig said, what happensis you can imagine our river,
and you've got a great big areaof ecosystem of salt water.
Then when it flows up, now ontop of that, salt, but just by a
little one on the side, um, acidsoil.
Acid soil and acid water, saltwater neutralises it.
(29:02):
Simple as that.
Put the salt water there, itneutralises it done.
Great big ecosystem, and closethe gate, it turns to a big
stinking rock tank, fills upwith water.
When it gets to a certainheight, and we get so much
pressure, the gates just openthemselves and all that stinking
filter.
It's poured out in the river,straight down past near the
sugar mill, out the barrage, anddown here, and that's what we
(29:22):
see.
We can have festivals, we can wecan celebrate with all the
things until that goes andthat's fixed up, nothing's gonna
change.
Okay, we're still gonna see, andit's just gonna get worse.
It really is.
So thank you for your support,and I'd like everyone I do a few
truth factors here on what'sactually going on with the
river.
And if you think it's bad, timesit by 20, because it's a hell of
a lot worse.
Okay, thank you.
unknown (29:48):
A lot of us can focus on that one.
SPEAKER_03 (29:52):
So the question is, is there a petition?
Not currently, like there is alot of work that's being done.
I think probably the best way tostart is you literally can just
Google the Tekian and maybe likeOzfish, because Ozfish has got a
long-running project in thatarea.
Ballinar Council is aware of theissue.
It's become obviously much moreprevalent because of this year
and the fish kill in March, butit is about sustained pressure.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
I don't know what you want to say to that, but
yeah, on top of that, you canactually get online, and this is
interesting, you can have a lookat they've got um gauges on the
um the oxygen levels in thewater.
There is none.
So you go up there, and oxygenlevel, I think, whether it's
fish can survive in two orthree, I'm not really sure of
the science of it, but it's itcan't support life.
It cannot support life.
So the the water that's up thereis that rotten, it can't even
(30:34):
support any life in there.
That'll give you an indication.
Now, uh what you can do, okay.
I'd say, right, write to TamaraSmith, write to all these guys.
Look, at the end of the day,they've someone's got to make a
decision to open the gates.
That's that's just the end ofthe line, what it is.
And it's just it it's it justdoes my head in that we've even
got see it's government reports.
They didn't want that released.
And they even say that that'sbad.
(30:55):
Every single agency and everyindigenous, everyone says it's
bad, but we still got it.
And we're talking seven gates.
Seven pins, seven gates.
Need to go.
It's done that much damage,still there.
If you can explain to me howthat is, I don't know.
I don't know.
So write to your members, dowhatever you can, stand on your
head, sing jingle bells,whatever you need to do, and let
people know that that is not on.
(31:16):
That is not the river you want.
And we do have the worst riveron the east coast of Australia,
and here we celebrate, and weshould be celebrating the
destruction of the place.
It's shocking.
SPEAKER_03 (31:23):
Thanks, Mark.
Round of applause for Mark.
Dropping the hard truths.
SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
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SPEAKER_03 (34:15):
My name's Tom Wolfe.
I founded an organization calledRevive the Northern Rivers with
my fiance over there maybealmost five years ago now, and
have tried to put this festivaltogether with my fellow MCs,
Zoe, Kristen, Emma fromBallinar, Allison.
Yeah, that's a heap, but I can'tthink of them all now.
Thanks to them, thanks toeveryone and all the stalls that
(34:38):
came out today and supported,and it's great to have such a
good turnout and such bloodygood weather.
Yeah, so as I said, I wrote thisstory at 5.30 this morning.
Usually I like winging it, buttoday I decided I'd actually get
prepared.
So I went down to the localcreek where I live on the
plateau up at Alstonville andyeah, wrote this little story.
So I hope you enjoy it.
(34:59):
Rivers have flowed through mesince the beginning.
Stories of rivers transferred bymy ancestors through blood,
connecting my past, present,future.
My family arrived at this riverseven generations past.
I wonder how it flowed throughtheir lives and what they
thought about the people whoknew it best, the many clans
from the Bunjalong and Githabulnations that had lived and loved
(35:20):
beside this river since timebegan here.
I wonder if this transmission ofwater through my own family
line, one life after the other,carried memories embedded in it.
And that all those water storieswere swallowed up in utero and
carried with me to this day, asI stand here before you now,
beside this very same river,flowing always.
My family arrived to meet theRiver West in a place we now
(35:43):
call Tatum.
Like most new arrivals on thisancient continent, they came
chasing the most valuablecommodity of all, timber, and
lots of it.
It's hard not to think of whatcould have been had the thirst
for timber been not sounquenchable.
Felling timber for productionhad it had its costs, but it was
the eventual clearing of vasttracts of primeval gondwanan
(36:04):
rainforest across the rich soilsof the plateau, all for the sake
of more pasture that was thereal knife in the back.
This river has always been here,but as I grew older our stories
converged.
My father, a saltwater manhimself of the sandstone country
down around the Secret River,taught me to sail here.
Learning the dance of wind andwater captivated me, and the
(36:24):
relative calm of the riverflowing in, out, in with the
tide allowed me to buildconfidence.
On days when the wind didn'tblow, we'd hoon around on the
old tinny.
The 15 horsepower outboard,redlining as we caught air off
the unbroken swell lines curvingtheir way into the bar.
My memory may come withrose-colored glasses, but in
that collection of formativememories, the river rarely ran
(36:47):
brown.
My mother's life as a young girlwas inseparable from the river.
From a house in RiverviewAvenue, a short float from here,
a lasting bond was formed by myother bloodline, the sixth in a
line of seven generations toshare this water.
Countless hours spent divinginto salty water of the estuary,
cutting feet on the oysters,fishing, playing, laughing,
(37:08):
surfing, and swimming.
Water stories from thebeginning.
As I left my teenage yearsbehind, me and the river
diverged from each other.
I saw it new places and waterswhile the river remained here
flowing, slowly suffering undera weight of history that only
seemed to get heavier.
Wherever I went, I was never farfrom water.
Its pull always undeniable.
I slowly built my understandingof ecology and how ecosystems
(37:31):
function, mostly through the artof observation.
Curiosity was a great teacher.
For a decade I followed wateraround the world, from Tasmania
to Darwin, Patagonia to Alaska.
I witnessed rivers who aremostly left to their own
devices, and others who are leftto absorb the byproducts of
modern human existence.
Ignorance may be bliss, but itwon't save a river from dying a
(37:52):
slow death.
Then the pandemic.
As a virus ravaged parts of theworld, I returned home, back
again to the river.
We all watched as air travelground to a halt, whole
societies turned inwards, and insome places, ecosystems were
given enough breathing spacefrom the modern capitalist
machine, if only for a littlewhile.
With my own space and time, bornof redundancies and
(38:14):
unemployment, I eventually foundmyself in the local library
chasing cognitive stimulation.
The surf was good that year, butI needed something more.
I spent hours pouring over localhistory books and bungee-lung
yarns in between surfs.
Slowly but surely, I began tobuild a picture in my mind about
what this river once was, of thelife systems it was able to
support.
(38:34):
Not a day goes by that I don'twish I could go back, if only
for a few minutes, to see whothis river once was, once upon a
time.
But since we still haven'tfigured out time travel, I'm
left with historical records andthe limits of my own
imagination.
What I learned through thosehours reading books was that
this river has a virus of itsown.
A virus so insipid andcontagious it destroys much in
(38:56):
its spread.
Unlike COVID-19, the symptomsaren't sore throat, a fever, or
respiratory distress.
The capitalist virus hasindoctrinated us all into an
idea that there can be endlessgrowth on a finite planet.
By compromising our immunesystem, it has somehow convinced
us that our life support systemsare nothing more than drains and
dams to be exploited.
Have you ever looked at a riversystem from the sky?
(39:18):
Ever seen the arteries reachingout across landscapes on the
driest inhabited continent onEarth?
It's hard not to see thesimilarities to the systems that
sustain our own bodies.
We are 75% water after all.
As doctors and scientists acrossthe planet scrambled to create
vaccines to stem the spread, Itoo searched for my own
solutions for an ailing river.
But I quickly learned thatmistakes made over centuries
(39:40):
can't be put right overnight.
Good things take time and a lotof patience.
Something I struggle with.
But a concerted effort and arethink of our most crucial
priorities, anything ispossible.
Through creating Revive theNorthern Rivers almost five
years ago, I have shared manystories, made plenty of
mistakes, and learnt more than Iever could have imagined about
the most important.
River in my life.
(40:01):
Ultimately, water has been agreat connector and it has led
me to some great water people.
Since I don't get this chancevery often, I'd like to take a
moment to acknowledge some ofthem now.
To Marcus Ferguson for hisinfectious curiosity, good
humour, and deep knowledge ofthis place.
Anthony Akrett for his quietpatience and determination.
Greg Telford for his wisdom andunwavering resilience.
(40:22):
I hope you saw Greg this morningspeaking.
Rob McFarland for one of themost important books I've ever
read.
My parents for leading me towater, and my fiance for
listening to my hair-brainedideas and helping me transform
them into something coherent andsensical.
Thank you.
Last week, Mika Mika Ballant, Idon't think I pronounced that
wrong, posed me a question for astory that she put together in
the lead up to this festival.
(40:44):
She asked simply, What is ariver to you?
My reply was as follows.
A river is a living system, anentity unto itself that sees and
feels things much like we do aspeople.
To connect with a river over alifetime is to make a friend,
someone you come to understandon a deeper level, and
ultimately someone you'll dowhatever you can to care for and
celebrate.
Today is a day for celebrationto connect with our river.
(41:06):
But tomorrow I ask of you onething.
Take five minutes out of yourday and ask yourself the
question (41:11):
what is a river to me?
It could be one of the mostexpansive and important
questions you ever ask.
SPEAKER_04 (41:25):
After attending that amazing day where the water was
finally clear and the riverlooked amazing, but really fresh
in our minds was the fact thatthis river had been so brown to
the point of being black,smelled so bad, was kind of
scary to go near, and certainlyyou weren't putting your head in
that water.
We're feeling all that, but alsofeeling motivated through
(41:46):
listening to the speakers.
And one of the biggestmotivators for me was that
question that Tom was asked andthen asked of us, where he said,
What is a river to you?
And I I left Riverfest thinking,Yeah, what is a river to me?
What is the Richmond River?
What is a local river in myarea?
What does it mean to me?
(42:07):
And I actually set out the nextday on our 30-foot Warham
double-hulled sailing canoe witha friend from Hawaii, Chris
Mioshiro, friend from NewZealand, Milo Inglis, and then
other local friends and leadersin community and coastal
conservation.
And so we set out to answer thatquestion.
(42:29):
What is a river to me?
So tune in for that episodecoming out soon, and thanks for
listening.
SPEAKER_01 (42:38):
We'll be continuing today's conversation on
Instagram, where we're at WaterPeople Podcast.
And you can subscribe to ourvery infrequent newsletter to
get book recommendations,questions we're pondering,
behind the scenes glimpses intorecording the podcast, and more
via our website,Waterpeoplepodcast.com.
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