Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station, gets, staff, management,
or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And good morning. You'll find out with peteing the polic Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard and I'm the poet Gold and we're
on this morning with two vassisus, Jeffrey Pottillo and Tailor Frasier.
Before you get to Taylor and Jeffrey, we're going to
go right to the public goal for a weekly poem
prayer incantation on Gold.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Please let it roll, I will let it roll. This
one is called to be of service, to inspire those
who are seeking inspiration, to transform those whose choice is
willful ignorance. To guide those in their darkest moment, To
hold dear those who need to be held, To demonstrate
patients when there seems to be none, To teach those
(00:49):
when there are lessons to be learned, To listen to
the voice of the unheard, to lead in an exact manner,
to be righteous with our cause. To be of service.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, and one way to be of service is to
jump into the Poughkeepsie community. And you know, I know
both of you have been on the air with us before.
But Cal, maybe you can remind us where you're from
and what you what you're majoring in, and what your
experience has been in Poughkeepsie this summer.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah. So my name's Taylor. I'm from Virginia originally, and
I'm majoring in International Studies and minoring in history here
at Vassar. I'm going to be a senior this year.
I'm a rising senior and I am one of the
two student interns for Engine, which jands for and the
(01:40):
New Jim Crow Action Network, and it focuses on prison
and police reforms, specifically here in the Dutchess County, but
also in New York State as a whole.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And what about you, Jeffery.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
So my name is Jeffrey. I'm originally from Missouri, with
my parents being from El Salvador, and I'm the second
intern within this summer.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And you know, Engine is a very attractive word. It
sounds like power and action and movement. But part of
the New Jim Crow. A lot of people don't know
what Jim Crow is, never mind the New Jim Crow.
Maybe you could explain a little of that.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
So the Jim Crow was essentially after the Free Slaves movement.
There is essentially lots of legislation that was enacted during
that time period that was specifically targeted to African Americans.
Though not explicitly stated in that legislation, it usually targeted
those communities. And while today there isn't any inherent racist legislation,
(02:43):
but we still see that legislation's impacting a certain demographic
of communities at a much larger scale. There's actually specific
examples of these that we've seen within the Dutchess County area,
like a bike registration. We've seen that police will usually
enforced bike registration on African Americans so they can search
(03:04):
them or they'll essentially unlawfully stop them and ask them
about their bike, which leads to greater escalation, which is
I feel like this is a perfect example of that
legislation of the new Jim Crow.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Okay, and yeah, Jim Crow basically is shorthand for unfair
legislation against African Americans. Dom back have the Reconstruction of
Right basically from eighteen seventy five to nineteen fifteen or
something like that. But the New Jim Crow is asimplified
(03:37):
by the prisons and prisons you know, ye, black people
with thirteen percent of the population, and they are an
overwhelming number of inmates.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
And I think one of the words that came out
of that time was loitering, you know, so that because
blacks didn't have work and so, you know, sort of
gathered on the street. So they put these laws in
place loitering because they knew that they could legally at
that point just sort of scoop up black men and
incarcerate them and then sort of reslave them in a way,
(04:09):
and the charge would be loitering.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah. Absolutely. There's an amazing book by Michelle Alexander that's
called The New Jim Crow, which is actually where this
organization got its name from and the idea behind this
grassroots volunteer social justice group was born. There was a
book club actually where a group of Pickkeepsie residents read
(04:32):
The New Gym Crow by Michelle Alexander, and it talked
exactly about how what you just said so eloquently, the
mass incarceration system is the new way of keeping African
American individuals enslaved in a world and in a time
where they are supposed to be free. And so that
book club read the book, they were very passionate about
(04:55):
the topic and galvanized to action and what you just said.
The reason the acronym for the organization is engine is
because this organization and the people that started it really
want to be an engine for change in the community.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And the meet it's Family Partnership Censor its Sadie Peters
and then the African Ruths Library is a still meet there.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
No, No, it's actually entirely on Zoom now because of
accessibility issues. Because it's entirely volunteer based. A lot of
the people that are heavily engaged are retired or they
have other jobs, they have other commitments, they have families,
and so it's easier for people to be consistently engaged
when we do our meetings on zoom.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
So what is there specific work? I know there's so
much work to be done, but there are there specific
projects that your calendar is focused on at the present moment.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, So we're I kind of want to mention the
Right to Know Act that we're trying to like actively
working towards a little bit on the Right to Know
Act essentially forces office to identify themselves with almost like
a business card that has like their name badge number
position in the office and essentially it holds accountability. We
(06:10):
were able to pass this in the city of Pickipsie,
and we're trying to pass it in the town currently,
and we do meet with the chief of police ensuring
that this legislation is actually being enforced and officers are
receiving the proper training just to keep matters from escalating,
and it's more so a de escalation tactic. I think
that's one of our bigger items on the agenda right now.
(06:31):
And I don't know if Taylor, do you want to
add something.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, I mean, one thing that especially struck me about
the Right to Know Act specifically is that it comes
like the idea behind it is you pass this and
it comes with additional training for police officers. So you
have these business cards in your pocket, and so that
pocket is kind of up, kind of close to your
heart more I'm realizing, I'm on the radio, you can't
(06:55):
see where my hand is. And so the training, the
idea is that officers will be having their hand all
those business cards close to their heart as a resting
place for their hand, as opposed to where many officers
have historically had their hand resting, which is on their gun,
which even though maybe an officer doesn't mean to be
(07:16):
creating an environment where a community member is feeling afraid
their hand is resting close to their gun, and that
sends a message to some people exactly. And so that's
a really awesome thing about the Right to Know Act.
Another thing that we have been working on is we
it's kind of on a hold right now because the
(07:37):
New York State legislative session has ended, but before that,
at the beginning of the summer, we were doing a
lot of advocacy work and lobbying up in Albany. We
were also speaking to Jonathan Jacobson about a couple of
parole bills, specifically the Elder Parole Bill. This is a
bill we would like to get passed in New York
State which would mean that individuals who have been incarcerated
(08:02):
for at least fifteen years and are at the age
of fifty five would get the opportunity to go in
front of the parole board. It wouldn't mean that they
would automatically be released, they would just have an opportunity
to go and share their case. And the reason this
bill is so important and we're so passionate about it
is because the life expectancy for incarcerated individuals is fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I know. And so that's why fifty five is such
an important age. We want these people to have an
opportunity to go home to their communities, to their families
before it's too late. And the data and research shows
that the rates of recidivism once individuals reach fifty five
are extremely low. So this kind of bill is high
reward for communities and very low risks. And recidivism is
(08:51):
a word that means like likeliness to recommit a crime
once released from incarceration. Unfortunately, though we spoke directly with
Johnathan Jacobson, he was not particularly amenable to supporting the
bill or even speaking to the Assembly about the bill
and about his opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
He's the PIPSI assemblyman.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yes, yeah, he's our representative.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And I think what's really important with that legislation is
that it acts more so as a voice a second chance.
We aren't advocating for like mass releases. I think what
we're advocating for is just those voices to be heard
and understood. And I think that's a big point why
we're so passionate about this bill especially and why we
keep trying to put shit with Jacobson right?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And what was I mean? You know he wasn't in favor,
But did he say why? I mean, we of course
invite him to the show when he could speak going.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
To Yeah, I would love for you to invite him.
I'd love to speak to him on it again. His
idea is that he has a lot of fear about
the fifty five age. That was where he articulated a
lot of his hesitancies were he said he would feel
more comfortable if it was I believe sixty or sixty five.
He kind of he proposed hypotheticals of somebody that was
(10:05):
maybe incarcerated at forty and then fifteen years fifty five,
maybe not enough time has gone by, Maybe that's too
early to release someone. And you know what we said
was if this is like a semantic thing for you,
like the specific age, is what's really preventing you from
from advocating for this bill, co sponsoring this bill, supporting
(10:26):
this bill. What if you bring that to the floor,
you talk to the people that are, you know, co
authoring the bill in the Assembly. But unfortunately he was
not interested in doing that.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
If you're just suiting in, you're listening to finding out
with Pete and the poet Gold and I'm the poet Gold.
And we're here with Jeffrey Portillo and Taylor Frasier from
Engine They are policy and medior in turns there and
Brittany sorry, Taylor is a policy and community outreach in
(10:59):
turn told him I couldn't read my writing right, she
put she put my glasses online.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And first of all, cool, we've been doing this for
six years. You made more mistakes and that I know,
right all the six years.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Before ID I'm gonna put my glasses back.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, you'll get another try, you think. So, you're learning
a lot about criminal justice and one of the things
you probably didn't come to Vassa to learn about criminal justice? Right?
What was your what drew you to come to Vasa
and what eventually made you open to dealing with criminal
(11:38):
justice issues? Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, yeah, what originally drew me to Vassar. In truth,
it's it's like Hogwarts. We have like dorms and they
have colors and mascots and that was really exciting to me.
And I also when I came for the day for
admitted students. There was an opportunity for prospective students to
(12:03):
ask the administrator's questions, and I remember very vividly I
had a question and I wanted to ask Vassar how
it connected with its community being a wealthy white institution
in a predominantly black and brown community that is of
a lower socioeconomic status, because I'd read a lot about
(12:23):
that when I was applying to colleges. And before I
got the chance to ask that question, someone else that
was a perspective student stood up and asked the question
and ask the question in a way that was like,
I know you have as an administrator, like you have
to give the politically correct, like save face, look good response,
(12:44):
but I want to know the truth. I want to
know what you were actively doing to connect with your community.
And I was sold. This is the type of student
body that I want to be a part of, the
type of student body that asks the hard questions and
administrators that are willing to create space these students to
have those conversations. And so I think that was kind
(13:05):
of the way that I've existed on this campus since
that day. You know, my job is in the community.
I'm a student mentor in Poughkeepsie High School, and so
I care a lot about the community. I'm constantly in
dialogue about the community and the relationship between BASSA and
the community, which has attracted me to community based courses.
And through all of that, Actually, the bike law that
(13:27):
Jeffrey spoke about came up in a class, and I
remember when I saw the opportunity to work with Engine,
knowing that they had been a driving force behind getting
that very racist bike law repealed. It sounded perfect. It
sounded like a group of people that really care and
are really locked in on what's going on, and I
wanted to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
You certainly have the language down, the driving force. Yeah,
this is We're gonna say something on how you chose. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
So whenever I first heard of Vassa, I had no
idea about it. And when it came down to picking
a college, something for me that was very important was
simply how feasible it was. And Vasser was actually very
kind with the financial aid package, which was the major
drive for me. And then also when I got here,
I had a lot of the same realizations that Taylor
just spoke about, especially that make space allow lean into
(14:21):
like discomfort which I saw a lot about here and
really like attracted it to me. And essentially when I
got here, I was like, this is a great space
that allows for new space.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So you bring things with you, you know, so to speak.
What was life for you like in high school? Did
you have some of these inclinations to want to be
in a space or was it a self discovery as
you got to the environment.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I'd say in high school, I came from also a
predominantly black and brown area, and I always wanted to
be politically involved, but I guess my smaller hometown there
wasn't enough room for that. No one was making space
the people to be involved. Everyone in the community back
home just assumed none of the students wanted to be involved.
So I guess that durstic change when I came here,
(15:08):
and actually having the opportunity to be involved in a
vibrant community was great, and I thought that drastic change
was a positive one.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, I've My mom is a first grade teacher, and
so I think about the time I was in first grade,
at six years old, I started volunteering in her classroom,
and so I've grown up very passionate about volunteer work,
especially volunteer work in the schools, and so I think
that kind of gave me an opportunity to understand how
(15:36):
like school boards school boards. I think going to those
meetings and caring about those because I cared so much
about the schools, was my entry point into political awareness
and political engagement. And so I think that's what I
brought to me with Vassar, and with that came a
level of respect and passion for local politics and local engagement,
specifically local count.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
My experience at Faster, and I've worked there for thirty
years is that it's hard to talk about race and
Faster I think that's one of the places that we
are a little uptight. In other words, at Faster, nobody
wants to be seen to be even mildly racist, and
(16:23):
so that the conversation is hard to to have. Whereas
when you go into the community, Yeah, there's a more
of an ease and obviously more of an openness to
talking about race then there is. Actually at school, you
have a point of view.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
And I no, actually I was going to ask them,
did did they find that you know that that's the
case on campus at all?
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I definitely feel I do see where you're coming from
and I do agree that when you do come to Faster,
it's very open and there is some changes I commit
into the city. Yeah yeah, I just kind of lost
my train of thought. I'm sorry, but I think it's
a very welcoming space.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But as far as the conversation goes, it can be
a welcoming space. But in relationship to I think what
Pete was referring to is, you know, are there open
dialogues about race relations and discrimination?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I think there isn't enough, as you were saying, They
definitely stray away from it, especially what happens locally. There's
not enough room for that being spoken in classrooms, and
that's something Taylor and I have definitely put on our
agenda on trying to bring that conversation in and making
it known, because the worst thing you could do is
not know. And I think making people aware is something
(17:46):
we're dedicated to and we prioritize, especially with engine.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
What a great answer. I mean, so you're driving the
engine conversation into vasa way. It is an eagerness to
talk about race brain is I'm not an easy vocabulary
around it. I know, real skills network when it was
when Tree Arrington was alive. He was a charismatic guy
(18:12):
who was familiar with engine and you know, all the
issues but a tree. The vast students flocked to him
because he was not he was not going to be
horrified that a white student might be a little racist.
You know. He was very genuinely accepting of people at
which freedom to talk about it. And I think that, yeah,
(18:36):
it's necessary.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Has Vast ever had I mean, you certainly have been there,
you know, much longer than I've been buying. But what
I'm saying, but while you were there, did they ever
have a symposium on race or anything of that nature?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Endless? Yeah? Yeah, I mean it's endless. But and I
guess my observation was they're not. People are nervous about
being perceived as a as a racist. So if you
have a conversation about racist in the first sentence is hey,
I'm not a racist, I mean, the conversation is dead
in the water. Yeah. One of the things so Vast
(19:10):
is great a number of things. Uh. And one of
the things I think Vassar is really good at is
l g B t Q issues, and Vaster we're so
good with uh uh, you know, gay issues. We don't
even know it. In other words, no, VASSA doesn't brag
about that, because it's just there's a genuine openness. What
(19:32):
we brag about is the stuff we're not actually that
good at. And that's the opening us around race. And
you know it's ironic.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
If you're just tuning in, you're listening to finding out
with Pete the poet Gold and I'm the poet Gold.
And we're here with Jeffrey Portillo, Policy and Media Outreach
Intern and Taylor Frasier, Policy and Community Outreach Intern for
engine at it now.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And you know, so you're both coming back to Vassal
with this education that you've got basically in the community.
And if I could say one more really great thing
about VASA, which I'm no longer being paid to say,
is vastest community work with an equally sell Office of
(20:18):
Community Learning where students go out into internships and they
get vaster academic credit for it. The reason I'm so
I think that's so great is the mission of Vassa
is to educate students, and built into the Office of
Community Engaged Learning is the notion that we can't really
(20:40):
do education at its highest level alone. We have to
trust the partners in the community. They can do something
that we cannot do on campus. So it's honestly a
modesty about we want our students to be really educated,
and some people can do pots of better than we can.
(21:03):
And so the notion of what does Vastly give to
the community, which is a topic that very often it
talks about, and the answer to me is not. So
when you know what Vaster gives to the community, what's
most impressive to me is what Vaster is wanting to
take from the community, and that is they're going to
take as a legitimate form of academic credit, the experiences
(21:26):
students have in the community. That's probably editorial goal.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
It was, it was, Peter, but it's a good editorial.
It was no, no, because it becomes a win win.
I think for everyone, I think, you know, I don't
want to speak for you guys, but I think as students,
you know, I think that you grow from it, you know,
and certainly, I mean we're beneficiaries of it on a
big level, whether it was Real Skills Network, which is
(21:52):
a nonprofit here in Poughkeepsie, or Poetry Fast or finding
out a Pete and the poet Gold. I mean, we've
definitely benefited from the presence of OCL participants, so and go.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Please, don't you know the facts that I made all
that money as the restorer of that program. And if
you think I made a lot of money, my wife
was a sociology professor. She made even more. So we
benefited a lot from VASA. I'm kidding around, but VASA
remains having what you would call a polite terms, a
(22:27):
problematic relationship with the community, and both your students are
working on that relationship to make it better for everybody.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And has the Inchine people ever been on campus and
had conversations on campus?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah? Well, actually, one of the co founders and most
active members of ENGINE is a professor Jeffrey Schneider in
the German Studies department on Vassa. He's actually kind of
the ENGINE member that we report to. He's the one
that checks in with us. So Engine is, I would say,
a really beautiful site of college and community engagement. Because
(23:04):
some of the other co founders were community members. You
know Brian Robinson who's a community member and I believe
founder of a civil rights nonprofit, Equable Equitable Future Incorporate,
inc Incorporated. I think that's what INK stands for was
also he's a huge member and Engine he's a community member,
and so we also meet with him. So yeah, I
(23:27):
would say there is a really good amount of Engine
and Vasser interaction, but that's kind of aided by the
Vasser professors. I think that's like a huge entry point
for that interaction. Which is actually something that the Jeffrey
and I in our outreach are working on. Is something
we talked about a lot with actually Bridget as well,
(23:49):
is how do we ensure that Vasser students become aware,
like you were saying, Jeffrey, about what's going on in
the community. How do we help them gain awareness and
thus like investment and care. And we think that professors
are a really great great way to do that. You
(24:10):
have so much built in respect for your professor, and
in your schedule, they've got like two hours, you know,
a day to just talk at you. So they've got
that time, they've got the platform to to kind of
keep you informed and to encourage that engagement. So yeah,
we've been thinking up of ways to maximize how that
can benefit the community and college relationships.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And I think you might have been casual about saying
jeff Schneider he's a German professor, and he's very founding
member of engine Jeff Schneider. I mean, you don't expect
the German teachers the one who's going to be out
there engaging the community in race relations, right, I mean,
(24:55):
and that's an exceptional sentence. And you it's very natural
to you because you know, you know, fresh Schneider is
doing this. In my sense, is he not only does
the work, but he embodies a great sensibility. He's what
anybody call a nice person. You know, he's sort of
(25:17):
low key, uh you know, and very present, uh lowkey,
a great listener and somebody who, uh, you're gonna like
right away, no matter what your racial background is, You're
gonna like Jeff Schneyder Man is Jeff schneyder And uh
that's where the conversation really starts.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Now I don't I don't know Jeff, But is he
is he from Germany? Do you know? So he's American?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
He's a German American from Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Okay, because I was just making a correlation that you know,
obviously Germany had its own sort of racism and you know,
Nazi movement, and but their sort of reconciliation with it.
I think is more progressive than America when it comes
to race relationships and how they looked at that, you know,
(26:13):
time and period in their life. It wasn't let's run
from it. These are the natural Germans, you know, they said,
this is what happened. It's atrocity happened. We don't want
to be a part of it, whereas America has never
really gotten to that point. America that I think sometimes
feels ashamed of slavery, but doesn't want to face it,
you know, and so that you know, that's why we're
in this stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, we don't want to have a fighter called you
admit I mean, and I would say that this is
editorial on my point. We're not ashamed of it enough.
We want to hide it. And I think the current
administration is doing an enormous amount to prevent us talking
about race in an honest way. And if it was
(26:57):
out of shame, that would be more admirable than the
notion that, hey, it wasn't that bad and let's forget
about that. And I think a lot of people want
to reinstitute, you know, racism in different forms. That's why
a group lay Engine, which talks about a new Jim
craw a new Jim Crow. Unjust laws against black people
(27:21):
and any kind of minority.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I should agree with you that I'm going to tell you.
I'm going to but I'm gonnattach it to fear. Actually,
so I should have had some of that shame to fear.
And but that's partially what my book is about. But anyway,
a little plug there.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, Gold is very entrepreneurial these days with the new
book coming out. And if I was writing a review
of Gold's book, which is about fear, about overcoming your fears,
I would say one of the secret ways to criticize
(27:54):
the book is Gold is actually a fearless person. What
do you know about fear?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
True, that's not true.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
But you guys are very courageous, you know, in doing
the work that you do in the community. It takes
it takes courage to step into those spaces because you know,
I mean, let's let's let's talk about it working for
in behalf of those who are fully incarcerated. A lot
of people don't want to be engaged in that conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Yeah, No, I definitely agree, and I think fear is
something that we need to lean into more and it
has a lot of area for growth, and I think
stepping into new areas that Taylor and I haven't been in.
I think it was good that we had fear. I
think we need to have an open mind and really
learn from the people in those spaces. And I feel
like sometimes fear can be good.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And we've got models, you know, We've got amazing community
activists that we can look up to and that we
can learn from and that really have charted a path
for us. We're just following, like I mean, it's it's
the truth, you know. And and thank you both for
the opportunity to meet so many grassroots activists, you know,
the Family Services dinner like that was a space where
(29:05):
there were so many amazing women.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I'm sitting across from Carmen McGill and she's done so
much in the community, and next to Junie Nicles, and
it's really easy to, I think, try new things and
open yourself up to new and maybe unexpected experiences when
there's people to kind of lead the way.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And we have thirty seconds, what do you think you're
going to do in the future and what your experience
and engine might help you with.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Well, hopefully connecting people and making connections that last longer
is something that I want to do, and I think
that could be applicable in any field, even if I
decide for some crazy reason to change the direction of
my life or working within the criminal justice system, whatever is.
I hope I'm connecting with people and that those connections last.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Talking to community members and also local government officials and
learning how to navigate those situations to help advocate for
those around me and for my community. I'm going to
take that with whatever I do, and we hope that we.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Believe that's going to happen. I just want to mention
we shouldn't talk about engine without mentioning. And I remember
me in It's thirty years of green Haven and the
prison program at fast it has fastest students and inmates
learning together, in some cases getting credit together. VAST has
got a really great tradition in that way too.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
So thank you everyone for being here today. Jeffrey and Taylor,
it's a pleasure having you back this week. And to
our listeners, thank you for listening to finding out Pete
and the Poelgo. We truly appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Thank you
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station, gets, staff, management,
or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And good morning. You'll find out with peteing the polic Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard and I'm the poet Gold and we're
on this morning with two vassisus, Jeffrey Pottillo and Tailor Frasier.
Before you get to Taylor and Jeffrey, we're going to
go right to the public goal for a weekly poem
prayer incantation on Gold.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Please let it roll, I will let it roll. This
one is called to be of service, to inspire those
who are seeking inspiration, to transform those whose choice is
willful ignorance. To guide those in their darkest moment, To
hold dear those who need to be held, To demonstrate
patients when there seems to be none, To teach those
(00:49):
when there are lessons to be learned, To listen to
the voice of the unheard, to lead in an exact manner,
to be righteous with our cause. To be of service.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, and one way to be of service is to
jump into the Poughkeepsie community. And you know, I know
both of you have been on the air with us before.
But Cal, maybe you can remind us where you're from
and what you what you're majoring in, and what your
experience has been in Poughkeepsie this summer.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah. So my name's Taylor. I'm from Virginia originally, and
I'm majoring in International Studies and minoring in history here
at Vassar. I'm going to be a senior this year.
I'm a rising senior and I am one of the
two student interns for Engine, which jands for and the
(01:40):
New Jim Crow Action Network, and it focuses on prison
and police reforms, specifically here in the Dutchess County, but
also in New York State as a whole.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And what about you, Jeffery.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
So my name is Jeffrey. I'm originally from Missouri, with
my parents being from El Salvador, and I'm the second
intern within this summer.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And you know, Engine is a very attractive word. It
sounds like power and action and movement. But part of
the New Jim Crow. A lot of people don't know
what Jim Crow is, never mind the New Jim Crow.
Maybe you could explain a little of that.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
So the Jim Crow was essentially after the Free Slaves movement.
There is essentially lots of legislation that was enacted during
that time period that was specifically targeted to African Americans.
Though not explicitly stated in that legislation, it usually targeted
those communities. And while today there isn't any inherent racist legislation,
(02:43):
but we still see that legislation's impacting a certain demographic
of communities at a much larger scale. There's actually specific
examples of these that we've seen within the Dutchess County area,
like a bike registration. We've seen that police will usually
enforced bike registration on African Americans so they can search
(03:04):
them or they'll essentially unlawfully stop them and ask them
about their bike, which leads to greater escalation, which is
I feel like this is a perfect example of that
legislation of the new Jim Crow.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Okay, and yeah, Jim Crow basically is shorthand for unfair
legislation against African Americans. Dom back have the Reconstruction of
Right basically from eighteen seventy five to nineteen fifteen or
something like that. But the New Jim Crow is asimplified
(03:37):
by the prisons and prisons you know, ye, black people
with thirteen percent of the population, and they are an
overwhelming number of inmates.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
And I think one of the words that came out
of that time was loitering, you know, so that because
blacks didn't have work and so, you know, sort of
gathered on the street. So they put these laws in
place loitering because they knew that they could legally at
that point just sort of scoop up black men and
incarcerate them and then sort of reslave them in a way,
(04:09):
and the charge would be loitering.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah. Absolutely. There's an amazing book by Michelle Alexander that's
called The New Jim Crow, which is actually where this
organization got its name from and the idea behind this
grassroots volunteer social justice group was born. There was a
book club actually where a group of Pickkeepsie residents read
(04:32):
The New Gym Crow by Michelle Alexander, and it talked
exactly about how what you just said so eloquently, the
mass incarceration system is the new way of keeping African
American individuals enslaved in a world and in a time
where they are supposed to be free. And so that
book club read the book, they were very passionate about
(04:55):
the topic and galvanized to action and what you just said.
The reason the acronym for the organization is engine is
because this organization and the people that started it really
want to be an engine for change in the community.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And the meet it's Family Partnership Censor its Sadie Peters
and then the African Ruths Library is a still meet there.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
No, No, it's actually entirely on Zoom now because of
accessibility issues. Because it's entirely volunteer based. A lot of
the people that are heavily engaged are retired or they
have other jobs, they have other commitments, they have families,
and so it's easier for people to be consistently engaged
when we do our meetings on zoom.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
So what is there specific work? I know there's so
much work to be done, but there are there specific
projects that your calendar is focused on at the present moment.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, So we're I kind of want to mention the
Right to Know Act that we're trying to like actively
working towards a little bit on the Right to Know
Act essentially forces office to identify themselves with almost like
a business card that has like their name badge number
position in the office and essentially it holds accountability. We
(06:10):
were able to pass this in the city of Pickipsie,
and we're trying to pass it in the town currently,
and we do meet with the chief of police ensuring
that this legislation is actually being enforced and officers are
receiving the proper training just to keep matters from escalating,
and it's more so a de escalation tactic. I think
that's one of our bigger items on the agenda right now.
(06:31):
And I don't know if Taylor, do you want to
add something.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, I mean, one thing that especially struck me about
the Right to Know Act specifically is that it comes
like the idea behind it is you pass this and
it comes with additional training for police officers. So you
have these business cards in your pocket, and so that
pocket is kind of up, kind of close to your
heart more I'm realizing, I'm on the radio, you can't
(06:55):
see where my hand is. And so the training, the
idea is that officers will be having their hand all
those business cards close to their heart as a resting
place for their hand, as opposed to where many officers
have historically had their hand resting, which is on their gun,
which even though maybe an officer doesn't mean to be
(07:16):
creating an environment where a community member is feeling afraid
their hand is resting close to their gun, and that
sends a message to some people exactly. And so that's
a really awesome thing about the Right to Know Act.
Another thing that we have been working on is we
it's kind of on a hold right now because the
(07:37):
New York State legislative session has ended, but before that,
at the beginning of the summer, we were doing a
lot of advocacy work and lobbying up in Albany. We
were also speaking to Jonathan Jacobson about a couple of
parole bills, specifically the Elder Parole Bill. This is a
bill we would like to get passed in New York
State which would mean that individuals who have been incarcerated
(08:02):
for at least fifteen years and are at the age
of fifty five would get the opportunity to go in
front of the parole board. It wouldn't mean that they
would automatically be released, they would just have an opportunity
to go and share their case. And the reason this
bill is so important and we're so passionate about it
is because the life expectancy for incarcerated individuals is fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I know. And so that's why fifty five is such
an important age. We want these people to have an
opportunity to go home to their communities, to their families
before it's too late. And the data and research shows
that the rates of recidivism once individuals reach fifty five
are extremely low. So this kind of bill is high
reward for communities and very low risks. And recidivism is
(08:51):
a word that means like likeliness to recommit a crime
once released from incarceration. Unfortunately, though we spoke directly with
Johnathan Jacobson, he was not particularly amenable to supporting the
bill or even speaking to the Assembly about the bill
and about his opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
He's the PIPSI assemblyman.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yes, yeah, he's our representative.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And I think what's really important with that legislation is
that it acts more so as a voice a second chance.
We aren't advocating for like mass releases. I think what
we're advocating for is just those voices to be heard
and understood. And I think that's a big point why
we're so passionate about this bill especially and why we
keep trying to put shit with Jacobson right?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And what was I mean? You know he wasn't in favor,
But did he say why? I mean, we of course
invite him to the show when he could speak going.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
To Yeah, I would love for you to invite him.
I'd love to speak to him on it again. His
idea is that he has a lot of fear about
the fifty five age. That was where he articulated a
lot of his hesitancies were he said he would feel
more comfortable if it was I believe sixty or sixty five.
He kind of he proposed hypotheticals of somebody that was
(10:05):
maybe incarcerated at forty and then fifteen years fifty five,
maybe not enough time has gone by, Maybe that's too
early to release someone. And you know what we said
was if this is like a semantic thing for you,
like the specific age, is what's really preventing you from
from advocating for this bill, co sponsoring this bill, supporting
(10:26):
this bill. What if you bring that to the floor,
you talk to the people that are, you know, co
authoring the bill in the Assembly. But unfortunately he was
not interested in doing that.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
If you're just suiting in, you're listening to finding out
with Pete and the poet Gold and I'm the poet Gold.
And we're here with Jeffrey Portillo and Taylor Frasier from
Engine They are policy and medior in turns there and
Brittany sorry, Taylor is a policy and community outreach in
(10:59):
turn told him I couldn't read my writing right, she
put she put my glasses online.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And first of all, cool, we've been doing this for
six years. You made more mistakes and that I know,
right all the six years.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Before ID I'm gonna put my glasses back.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, you'll get another try, you think. So, you're learning
a lot about criminal justice and one of the things
you probably didn't come to Vassa to learn about criminal justice? Right?
What was your what drew you to come to Vasa
and what eventually made you open to dealing with criminal
(11:38):
justice issues? Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, yeah, what originally drew me to Vassar. In truth,
it's it's like Hogwarts. We have like dorms and they
have colors and mascots and that was really exciting to me.
And I also when I came for the day for
admitted students. There was an opportunity for prospective students to
(12:03):
ask the administrator's questions, and I remember very vividly I
had a question and I wanted to ask Vassar how
it connected with its community being a wealthy white institution
in a predominantly black and brown community that is of
a lower socioeconomic status, because I'd read a lot about
(12:23):
that when I was applying to colleges. And before I
got the chance to ask that question, someone else that
was a perspective student stood up and asked the question
and ask the question in a way that was like,
I know you have as an administrator, like you have
to give the politically correct, like save face, look good response,
(12:44):
but I want to know the truth. I want to
know what you were actively doing to connect with your community.
And I was sold. This is the type of student
body that I want to be a part of, the
type of student body that asks the hard questions and
administrators that are willing to create space these students to
have those conversations. And so I think that was kind
(13:05):
of the way that I've existed on this campus since
that day. You know, my job is in the community.
I'm a student mentor in Poughkeepsie High School, and so
I care a lot about the community. I'm constantly in
dialogue about the community and the relationship between BASSA and
the community, which has attracted me to community based courses.
And through all of that, Actually, the bike law that
(13:27):
Jeffrey spoke about came up in a class, and I
remember when I saw the opportunity to work with Engine,
knowing that they had been a driving force behind getting
that very racist bike law repealed. It sounded perfect. It
sounded like a group of people that really care and
are really locked in on what's going on, and I
wanted to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
You certainly have the language down, the driving force. Yeah,
this is We're gonna say something on how you chose. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
So whenever I first heard of Vassa, I had no
idea about it. And when it came down to picking
a college, something for me that was very important was
simply how feasible it was. And Vasser was actually very
kind with the financial aid package, which was the major
drive for me. And then also when I got here,
I had a lot of the same realizations that Taylor
just spoke about, especially that make space allow lean into
(14:21):
like discomfort which I saw a lot about here and
really like attracted it to me. And essentially when I
got here, I was like, this is a great space
that allows for new space.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So you bring things with you, you know, so to speak.
What was life for you like in high school? Did
you have some of these inclinations to want to be
in a space or was it a self discovery as
you got to the environment.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I'd say in high school, I came from also a
predominantly black and brown area, and I always wanted to
be politically involved, but I guess my smaller hometown there
wasn't enough room for that. No one was making space
the people to be involved. Everyone in the community back
home just assumed none of the students wanted to be involved.
So I guess that durstic change when I came here,
(15:08):
and actually having the opportunity to be involved in a
vibrant community was great, and I thought that drastic change
was a positive one.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, I've My mom is a first grade teacher, and
so I think about the time I was in first grade,
at six years old, I started volunteering in her classroom,
and so I've grown up very passionate about volunteer work,
especially volunteer work in the schools, and so I think
that kind of gave me an opportunity to understand how
(15:36):
like school boards school boards. I think going to those
meetings and caring about those because I cared so much
about the schools, was my entry point into political awareness
and political engagement. And so I think that's what I
brought to me with Vassar, and with that came a
level of respect and passion for local politics and local engagement,
specifically local count.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
My experience at Faster, and I've worked there for thirty
years is that it's hard to talk about race and
Faster I think that's one of the places that we
are a little uptight. In other words, at Faster, nobody
wants to be seen to be even mildly racist, and
(16:23):
so that the conversation is hard to to have. Whereas
when you go into the community, Yeah, there's a more
of an ease and obviously more of an openness to
talking about race then there is. Actually at school, you
have a point of view.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
And I no, actually I was going to ask them,
did did they find that you know that that's the
case on campus at all?
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I definitely feel I do see where you're coming from
and I do agree that when you do come to Faster,
it's very open and there is some changes I commit
into the city. Yeah yeah, I just kind of lost
my train of thought. I'm sorry, but I think it's
a very welcoming space.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But as far as the conversation goes, it can be
a welcoming space. But in relationship to I think what
Pete was referring to is, you know, are there open
dialogues about race relations and discrimination?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I think there isn't enough, as you were saying, They
definitely stray away from it, especially what happens locally. There's
not enough room for that being spoken in classrooms, and
that's something Taylor and I have definitely put on our
agenda on trying to bring that conversation in and making
it known, because the worst thing you could do is
not know. And I think making people aware is something
(17:46):
we're dedicated to and we prioritize, especially with engine.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
What a great answer. I mean, so you're driving the
engine conversation into vasa way. It is an eagerness to
talk about race brain is I'm not an easy vocabulary
around it. I know, real skills network when it was
when Tree Arrington was alive. He was a charismatic guy
(18:12):
who was familiar with engine and you know, all the
issues but a tree. The vast students flocked to him
because he was not he was not going to be
horrified that a white student might be a little racist.
You know. He was very genuinely accepting of people at
which freedom to talk about it. And I think that, yeah,
(18:36):
it's necessary.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Has Vast ever had I mean, you certainly have been there,
you know, much longer than I've been buying. But what
I'm saying, but while you were there, did they ever
have a symposium on race or anything of that nature?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Endless? Yeah? Yeah, I mean it's endless. But and I
guess my observation was they're not. People are nervous about
being perceived as a as a racist. So if you
have a conversation about racist in the first sentence is hey,
I'm not a racist, I mean, the conversation is dead
in the water. Yeah. One of the things so Vast
(19:10):
is great a number of things. Uh. And one of
the things I think Vassar is really good at is
l g B t Q issues, and Vaster we're so
good with uh uh, you know, gay issues. We don't
even know it. In other words, no, VASSA doesn't brag
about that, because it's just there's a genuine openness. What
(19:32):
we brag about is the stuff we're not actually that
good at. And that's the opening us around race. And
you know it's ironic.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
If you're just tuning in, you're listening to finding out
with Pete the poet Gold and I'm the poet Gold.
And we're here with Jeffrey Portillo, Policy and Media Outreach
Intern and Taylor Frasier, Policy and Community Outreach Intern for
engine at it now.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And you know, so you're both coming back to Vassal
with this education that you've got basically in the community.
And if I could say one more really great thing
about VASA, which I'm no longer being paid to say,
is vastest community work with an equally sell Office of
(20:18):
Community Learning where students go out into internships and they
get vaster academic credit for it. The reason I'm so
I think that's so great is the mission of Vassa
is to educate students, and built into the Office of
Community Engaged Learning is the notion that we can't really
(20:40):
do education at its highest level alone. We have to
trust the partners in the community. They can do something
that we cannot do on campus. So it's honestly a
modesty about we want our students to be really educated,
and some people can do pots of better than we can.
(21:03):
And so the notion of what does Vastly give to
the community, which is a topic that very often it
talks about, and the answer to me is not. So
when you know what Vaster gives to the community, what's
most impressive to me is what Vaster is wanting to
take from the community, and that is they're going to
take as a legitimate form of academic credit, the experiences
(21:26):
students have in the community. That's probably editorial goal.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
It was, it was, Peter, but it's a good editorial.
It was no, no, because it becomes a win win.
I think for everyone, I think, you know, I don't
want to speak for you guys, but I think as students,
you know, I think that you grow from it, you know,
and certainly, I mean we're beneficiaries of it on a
big level, whether it was Real Skills Network, which is
(21:52):
a nonprofit here in Poughkeepsie, or Poetry Fast or finding
out a Pete and the poet Gold. I mean, we've
definitely benefited from the presence of OCL participants, so and go.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Please, don't you know the facts that I made all
that money as the restorer of that program. And if
you think I made a lot of money, my wife
was a sociology professor. She made even more. So we
benefited a lot from VASA. I'm kidding around, but VASA
remains having what you would call a polite terms, a
(22:27):
problematic relationship with the community, and both your students are
working on that relationship to make it better for everybody.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And has the Inchine people ever been on campus and
had conversations on campus?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah? Well, actually, one of the co founders and most
active members of ENGINE is a professor Jeffrey Schneider in
the German Studies department on Vassa. He's actually kind of
the ENGINE member that we report to. He's the one
that checks in with us. So Engine is, I would say,
a really beautiful site of college and community engagement. Because
(23:04):
some of the other co founders were community members. You
know Brian Robinson who's a community member and I believe
founder of a civil rights nonprofit, Equable Equitable Future Incorporate,
inc Incorporated. I think that's what INK stands for was
also he's a huge member and Engine he's a community member,
and so we also meet with him. So yeah, I
(23:27):
would say there is a really good amount of Engine
and Vasser interaction, but that's kind of aided by the
Vasser professors. I think that's like a huge entry point
for that interaction. Which is actually something that the Jeffrey
and I in our outreach are working on. Is something
we talked about a lot with actually Bridget as well,
(23:49):
is how do we ensure that Vasser students become aware,
like you were saying, Jeffrey, about what's going on in
the community. How do we help them gain awareness and
thus like investment and care. And we think that professors
are a really great great way to do that. You
(24:10):
have so much built in respect for your professor, and
in your schedule, they've got like two hours, you know,
a day to just talk at you. So they've got
that time, they've got the platform to to kind of
keep you informed and to encourage that engagement. So yeah,
we've been thinking up of ways to maximize how that
can benefit the community and college relationships.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And I think you might have been casual about saying
jeff Schneider he's a German professor, and he's very founding
member of engine Jeff Schneider. I mean, you don't expect
the German teachers the one who's going to be out
there engaging the community in race relations, right, I mean,
(24:55):
and that's an exceptional sentence. And you it's very natural
to you because you know, you know, fresh Schneider is
doing this. In my sense, is he not only does
the work, but he embodies a great sensibility. He's what
anybody call a nice person. You know, he's sort of
(25:17):
low key, uh you know, and very present, uh lowkey,
a great listener and somebody who, uh, you're gonna like
right away, no matter what your racial background is, You're
gonna like Jeff Schneyder Man is Jeff schneyder And uh
that's where the conversation really starts.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Now I don't I don't know Jeff, But is he
is he from Germany? Do you know? So he's American?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
He's a German American from Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Okay, because I was just making a correlation that you know,
obviously Germany had its own sort of racism and you know,
Nazi movement, and but their sort of reconciliation with it.
I think is more progressive than America when it comes
to race relationships and how they looked at that, you know,
(26:13):
time and period in their life. It wasn't let's run
from it. These are the natural Germans, you know, they said,
this is what happened. It's atrocity happened. We don't want
to be a part of it, whereas America has never
really gotten to that point. America that I think sometimes
feels ashamed of slavery, but doesn't want to face it,
you know, and so that you know, that's why we're
in this stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, we don't want to have a fighter called you
admit I mean, and I would say that this is
editorial on my point. We're not ashamed of it enough.
We want to hide it. And I think the current
administration is doing an enormous amount to prevent us talking
about race in an honest way. And if it was
(26:57):
out of shame, that would be more admirable than the
notion that, hey, it wasn't that bad and let's forget
about that. And I think a lot of people want
to reinstitute, you know, racism in different forms. That's why
a group lay Engine, which talks about a new Jim
craw a new Jim Crow. Unjust laws against black people
(27:21):
and any kind of minority.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I should agree with you that I'm going to tell you.
I'm going to but I'm gonnattach it to fear. Actually,
so I should have had some of that shame to fear.
And but that's partially what my book is about. But anyway,
a little plug there.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, Gold is very entrepreneurial these days with the new
book coming out. And if I was writing a review
of Gold's book, which is about fear, about overcoming your fears,
I would say one of the secret ways to criticize
(27:54):
the book is Gold is actually a fearless person. What
do you know about fear?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
True, that's not true.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
But you guys are very courageous, you know, in doing
the work that you do in the community. It takes
it takes courage to step into those spaces because you know,
I mean, let's let's let's talk about it working for
in behalf of those who are fully incarcerated. A lot
of people don't want to be engaged in that conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Yeah, No, I definitely agree, and I think fear is
something that we need to lean into more and it
has a lot of area for growth, and I think
stepping into new areas that Taylor and I haven't been in.
I think it was good that we had fear. I
think we need to have an open mind and really
learn from the people in those spaces. And I feel
like sometimes fear can be good.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And we've got models, you know, We've got amazing community
activists that we can look up to and that we
can learn from and that really have charted a path
for us. We're just following, like I mean, it's it's
the truth, you know. And and thank you both for
the opportunity to meet so many grassroots activists, you know,
the Family Services dinner like that was a space where
(29:05):
there were so many amazing women.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I'm sitting across from Carmen McGill and she's done so
much in the community, and next to Junie Nicles, and
it's really easy to, I think, try new things and
open yourself up to new and maybe unexpected experiences when
there's people to kind of lead the way.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And we have thirty seconds, what do you think you're
going to do in the future and what your experience
and engine might help you with.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Well, hopefully connecting people and making connections that last longer
is something that I want to do, and I think
that could be applicable in any field, even if I
decide for some crazy reason to change the direction of
my life or working within the criminal justice system, whatever is.
I hope I'm connecting with people and that those connections last.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Talking to community members and also local government officials and
learning how to navigate those situations to help advocate for
those around me and for my community. I'm going to
take that with whatever I do, and we hope that we.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Believe that's going to happen. I just want to mention
we shouldn't talk about engine without mentioning. And I remember
me in It's thirty years of green Haven and the
prison program at fast it has fastest students and inmates
learning together, in some cases getting credit together. VAST has
got a really great tradition in that way too.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
So thank you everyone for being here today. Jeffrey and Taylor,
it's a pleasure having you back this week. And to
our listeners, thank you for listening to finding out Pete
and the Poelgo. We truly appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Thank you
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