"HEALTH & COMMUNITY" 07-14-2024 GUEST: ANDREW O'GRADY,CEO OF MHA DUTCHESS - DISCUSSES A TWO WAY RELATIONSHIP

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in thefollowing programmer those of the speaker and don't
necessarily represent those of the station it'sstaff management or ownership. Good morning,
you'll find me out with peating thePoet Cold. I'm Peter Leon and I'm
the poet Gold, and we're onthe air this morning with Andrew Grady from
Mental Health America. And before weget to the way Andrew and his vast

(00:21):
set of programs, we're going togo right to the poet Gold for her
weekly poem prayer incantation. Gold,please let it roll. I'm in the
spirit to do the bridge this morning. The storm clouds move to make way
for the shine. Rays of warmthoffer ease to the mind. Enveloping the
spirit, A present is within it. Let love be the breeze for your

(00:44):
lift out of the loneliness. Letlove be the breeze for your lift out
of the loneliness. But with breath, life is never truly listless, because
we are blessed with the power resurrectingand restoring the good that lies within us.
Let not the voice of doubt befriendyour hope, to make you hope
bliss or copeless there's an inn bridgeconnecting your soul to your spirit, to

(01:04):
your heart, to your mind,leading to your strength. You may cross
it, for it is there thesun will rise, heyman to that and
Pickkeepsie is a place defined by bridges, the walkway with the Hudson and mid
Hudson Bridge, and we've had beautifulpictures of both of those bridges, absolutely,

(01:25):
and they were underwritten by that poemthat recognized that bridges don't only connect
the land, but they connect spirit, souls and bodies. Thank you,
Andrew, we are the hihis.Have you here today? And you know
some people you know here mensal HealthAmerica just the title of your organization,

(01:47):
and you don't know what that whatthat refers to. Can you give us
a sense in a general sense ofwhat mental Health America is about? Sure?
First of all, we were calledthe Mental Health Association in Dutchess County
since nineteen fifty and about fifteen yearsago. Jackie Brownstein was our executive director
at the time, and she wasalso on the board of directors for the

(02:08):
National Mental Health Association. And atthe time, the national organization put a
call out to all the affiliates throughoutthe country two hundred and forty four affiliates
I believe to change their name toMental Health America because there was some type
of trademark issue or something. Well, Jackie did it. We did it

(02:28):
here in Dutchess County because she wason the board, and nobody else followed
suit in New York States, somaybe one or two other places did.
So. We have a Mental HealthAssociation in our Ulster County, a mental
Health Association in Orange County, andall the way down the Hudson River,
and we are the Mental Health America, which is still an MHA. So
we're an MHA, an MHA ina community, unlike the MHAs at state

(02:51):
capitals or the national organization who dolobbying. MHAs within communities provide services a
vast array of services. Some arevery maybe only have two or three staff,
and maybe they're more of an informationalreferral entity. But most of the
organizations up the Hudson River region hereare some of the largest MHAs in the

(03:13):
country, and we provide quite afew services. When I took over from
Jackie, we had about one hundredand ten staff members. I had kind
of a passion to grow and Iknew we provided great service, so I
charged forward with building the agency,and now we have two hundred and eighty
employees. We're a very large organization. We have twenty two million dollar budget

(03:36):
started with a six million, andwe have really expanded our services and I'm
proud of us doing that. It'snot just about getting bigger, it's about
improving care in this area. AndI think that we do that, and
I think that we're I don't wantto say trend setters, but we tend
to think forward. I think undermy leadership, I think and the people

(03:58):
working for me, we tend tolook forward and try to try to roll
out new and innovative programming. We'rein an infancy right now of trying to
learn how to help people where no, there's no definitive answers right now,
and try new things. And whenyou said we're in infancy, who were
in the war, Well, youknow, we're in infancy and mental health

(04:21):
treatment from one, it's only beensince the early nineteen hundreds that you know,
we had institutions back then, andthere wasn't a lot of treatment going
on, and it wasn't until likethe nineteen forties or fifties where it started
being less of an institutional housing situationand more of a treatment program and hoping
that people get better and recover.And it wasn't until the seventies or eighties

(04:44):
that we really started getting better medications. And now we're getting even better medications.
But unfortunately the pendulum swung so farthat they shut down all these institutions.
That's institutions that could be helpful tosome, but now we can't access
them because they're not available any longer. But we're still learning. You know,
it wasn't long ago we were sprayingpeople with mental illness with hoses to

(05:06):
wash them down in an institution andchaining them up, and we're still not.
In my ideal world, we shouldn'tbe calling a mental health system a
system. I think that shows thatwe need growth. I think there's a
lot of room for us to getbetter at what we do. I don't
think we include family members enough intrying to help support somebody moving forward.

(05:31):
There's a lot of things that wecan improve on. Are you too?
Just points out you use the wordwe we're learning, this we're doing and
it's a very inclusive term. Theway you use it, you mean society
is treating people with mental illness differently, in many cases better. But I
like your collective approach to it.Thank you well. It is a collective

(05:55):
approach. It's a community issue,Yes it is. You were speaking about
a new ideas, new innovative ways. Can you shusbound on that? Sure?
We have. One of the thingsthat I'm pretty proud of is that
we have something called the ECHO Program, Enhanced Community Health through Outreach. We

(06:16):
decided to work with the police departmentin the city of Poughkeepsie about five years
ago and embed a mental health workerwithin the police department. Police Chief Pape,
who recently retired, and Rob Rollison, I believe at the time embraced
the idea. It was during thattime where you know, we had the
George Floyd stuff and we had acall for defunding police and all that movement

(06:41):
was happening. So that's even moreof a reason to give credit to them
for spearheading this and embracing it becauseit was seen by some I'm sure as
this must be the beginning of socialworkers takeover police departments, and that's not
what that was about. And webelieve police are My agency believes the police
are extremely important, but they spenda lot of their time dealing with people

(07:04):
who really just need support and connectionto services. So what we do is
we embed an individual within the policedepartment. They wear a vest, they
ride with the police. They don'tcarry a gun, but they ride with
police, and they they kind offollow up every interaction with you know,

(07:25):
Hey, I'm from MHA and Ijust want to know we have these services,
but there's also these other great organizationsout here, and some of these
organizations can help you. And thenwhat we do is we follow up with
those individuals the next day by phoneor the day after. But it looks
to the community as if the Cityof Poughkeepsie Police Department is calling to check
in and see how you're doing.That's unheard of, right, So how

(07:46):
does that look for community things?The police department not only cares about us,
it enhances community policing. So thatwas such a success that the sorry
of the fish Beacon Police now contractwith us, the Hyde Park Police contract
with US, East Fishkill now contractswith US. In the Dutch, the
county sheriff. So we're growing thatother organizations have similar situations. But usually

(08:11):
it's let's call MHA when we havean issue, but a police officer is
not going to take the time tocall. It's better if they're embedded in
and if they're trusted by the officers, which they become part of the team,
to trust the team and an ancillarysupport. Even though they are not
social workers, they're not clinicians,they're usually case managers, experts in community

(08:31):
resources and how to engage people andde escalate situations. They become even though
they're not therapists, they become ahelp to the police officers. Many times,
the officers will come in and sitdown with our guys and say hey,
and informally they just start talking aboutthis car accident they went to the

(08:52):
other day where a kid was killedGod forbid or something. They see horrible,
horrible things and they start talking toour guy or our woman about that
and it becomes a safe space forthem. It's not a therapy session,
but it becomes a place that theycan vent and talk and that's a wonderful
thing. So it helps the policeofficers do a better job. It also

(09:15):
creates greater public safety. Yes,once again, if you're tuning in,
you're listening to finding out with Peteand the poet Gold and I'm the poet
Gold and we're here with Andrew O'Gradyfrom a Mental Health America of Poughkeepsie,
Dutchess County, Dutchess County, DutchessCounty. You have a new building,
relatively new building, right we have, well, we have a few new

(09:35):
buildings have. We started out atHayde Avenue about twenty years ago and we
got rid of that and moved intotwo fifty three Mansion Street. That's our
headquarters. But we recently, aboutfive years ago, purchased a building right
across from Hayde Avenue, five fifteeneight Avenue. We have that building where
we have offices and we have awellness center where people can go and learn

(09:58):
how to cook, and Christian classesand all sorts of stuff. And then
out in Pleasant Valley, we havea building donated to us about three years
ago on Route forty four going onthe left side going east one three five
five, Route forty four. It'sa Veterans one stop shop. We got
this building, it's eight thousand squarefeet and it was donated to us and
we turned it into a Veterans onestop. So we got the county to

(10:22):
move their offices there. We haveall of our veterans services there. We
use the basement area of the facilityto turn it into a recreational area.
So think of it like a VFWwithout the alcohol. People jamming with their
music, they're having fun, they'retalking, they're playing games. A place
for veterans to be, and wehave other ancillary services tied in. We

(10:46):
have the VA have some telehealth officesin there. If you really if you're
a veteran or a family member ofa veteran and you are looking for some
guidance or just want to be connectedto other veterans, just stop in,
walk in, introduce, wish yourself. I promise you you'll be welcomed with
open arms and we'll get you whateveryou need. I can tell you what
a couple of veterans want right herein the city of Poughkeepsie. They want

(11:09):
to parade. They want to parade, they want to parade. I was.
I was at the Gay Prie parade, and as I was passing by,
it was it was wonderful. Butas I was passing by to go
to the start of the parade,I heard two, you know, older
gentlemen sitting on the bench and they'relike, you know, they're do that
for them, but they won't dothat for us. And so I turned
to them and I said, Isaid, oh, it's everyone's welcome,

(11:31):
everyone's included. And he said,no, no one thinks about us.
And I said, well, who'sus? And he said, we're Vets
and no one throws us a parade. And I said, okay, I
said, I promise you, I'mgoing to bring this up when we're going
to make this happen some way oranother, well, count MHA and to
have a big presence at that pYeah, so we need to get our
Vets a parade. Yeah. Andyou know, there's a lot of connection

(11:54):
between social programs and your organization,whereas very often people think of mental health
as sort of individual therapy session,right, but your general perspective is more
of a community wide connects to this. Yeah. You know, I'm a
licensed clinician by trade, I guessby license, and I still do some

(12:18):
private stuff, not much, butin the work I've done as a clinician
within the county, I realize shortlyinto it that the people in poverty that
are going to these clinics settings likefamily Services as a wide array of clinics.
The people in poverty that go tothese clinics really come into the office

(12:43):
and talk to the social worker,the therapist, and it's all about social
determinants health. It's all about thefact that the food stamps weren't working.
So I pick up the phone andI get on the phone, and they
think it's the greatest therapy session inthe world because by the time they leave,
they have their food stamps on.But it's not therapy. And I
realized that the ancillary supports are themost important thing we can offer people,

(13:07):
and so our agency, while wedo have a psychiatrist and one therapist down
and beacon in a day treatment programthat we have, everything else we have
is either peer run peer services,whether it be addiction peers, veteran peers,
mental health people recovered from mental healththat are helping others, or case
management or community based services that wego to people's homes. We kind of

(13:31):
assess while we're there, is everythinggood? Do you have food? Do
you as your medicine? We makesure that stuff is any way, So
my answer, I was not expectingthat word, and I sort of know
what it means in other context,but what you mean here, from what
I can tell, is these socialservices that are available to people, if

(13:52):
fully connected to that that will helpthe individual's mental health. Yeah, I
mean I think I used ancillary,right. I think it's a it's an
add on. It's something that theyare eligible for that's going to help them
live more independently and better that theydon't always have connection to or they don't
have the patience to be connected to. You. They go to DCFS and

(14:15):
they sit there for three hours andthey get annoyed, and then they leave
and they don't get their food stamps, they don't get their medicaid, then
they don't get their medication, thenthey don't get their food. It's all
interconnected. Yes, So there areindividual causes and symptoms of mental illness,
but everybody also has social social media, and many times people with disability,

(14:37):
sorry, many times people with disabilityare unable to work and make enough money,
and so they live in poverty unfortunately, and they're more in need of
those services, right, And allthose things become stressors of course when you
don't when you don't have access tothem, Yes, and their mental health
is that impacted. Let's talk alittle bit about mental health and its impact

(15:01):
on homelessness. Let's do that,okay, you know, because particularly I
know in Poughkeepsie, the homeless populationhas definitely increased. It has increased,
and there's a lot of different linesof thought as to why, and I
think, sorry, I think thatI think they're all accurate in some degree.

(15:22):
But some people say that our homelessprogram at the Pods currently is so
much better than other communities, thatpeople come from other communities to be homeless
in Dutchess County. That's true toa degree. There are a number of
people who have done that, butthat happens, so we have. But

(15:46):
people also are now being kind ofmoved away from the Pods, which is
the overnight shelter, because we're implementingmore rules there. People can't just this
is a hard topic to talk aboutbecause you'll hear there might be some triggering
things, but no one's here to, you know, judge people. But
it's it's tough. I think wemake it sometimes too easy for people to

(16:10):
be homeless if they are okay withthat lifestyle, if that makes sense.
I think there needs to be someskin in the game. I think that
people need to be motivated a littlemore to take the paths and the avenues
that are going to get them tolive a little more healthy. So many

(16:30):
people there's a there's a percentage ofpeople that are at the pods or living
on Main Street and Poughkeepsie, orliving in the street that when you say
the population seems to be growing,it's what you see in the street.
You don't see in the you don'tsee what's going on in the pods.
There's always one hundred and twenty peopleat at our homeless shelter in Dutchess County,
one hundred and twenty people that youdon't see, so you have no

(16:53):
idea how bad it is. Butwhen the population in the street rises a
little bit, people are like,oh, there's a lot. Well,
there's a lot more than that,a lot more than that, So you
know, we think, I thinkthere's people. Those people need help.
There's a certain percentage of people whoare actively using drugs and alcohol. They're
making that choice over over health andmaybe a path to being able to live

(17:19):
independently. Then there's a certain percentage, a smaller percentage of people who have
just severe mental health issues that arenot following through by virtue of the illness,
which lends them to believe there's nothingwrong with them. It's an interesting
dynamic. And then they and they'refearful of anybody in treatment or their stigma,

(17:40):
they don't want to get help,so they don't get help, so
they, unfortunately, are just enfranchisedand homeless. There's also a growing number
of people. It's a small number, but there's also a growing number of
people who have worked their whole life. I met a seventy five year old
man the other day at our homelessshelter who I said, what's your story.
I haven't seen you here, andhe said, I've lived in the
city Poughkeepsie my whole life. I'veworked my whole life from the age of

(18:04):
seventeen on. Granted I didn't workjobs. It made me a ton of
money, but I worked and I'mretired and now my landlord raised the rent
and I can't afford to live,so here I am in a homeless shelter.
He was devastated. There's a percentageof people like that, So how

(18:25):
do we how do we balance allthat and help this population because it is
growing. It's growing all over thecountry. There's ten cities popping up all
over on Main Street right now byKennedy Fried Chicken. Now there's that open
lot. Somebody overdosed there and somebodywas shot there I think a week ago,
and my team along with four otheragencies set up like an outreach area

(18:49):
in that spot the other day andliterally somebody overdosed right while we were all
there, and one of my employeesgrabbed the narcana, went up and a
narcan and saved the woman's life.But it's it's growing all over the country,
these ten populations of people that haveactively using drugs. It's it's not

(19:10):
good and it's and it's killing ourour city a little bit. In that
area. People don't want to goproblem and you know, a mental illness,
you know. I remember Mel Garrett, he used to work for the
MENSA, the whole Mental Health Associationthose days. He had a drop in
Homo Shelter Partnership sensor. He wasvery clear, he said, if you're

(19:30):
not mentally ill when you start aftera month of living on the street,
you mention reel and I mean,so uh, you know the notion there
is a ya you're documenting there isa small population of people who are actually
making choices to do things, andthey could make better choices. Mostly,

(19:55):
mental illness is not a matter ofrational choice, right, And some people
can make the argument that an addictionis as well, and I do believe
it. The need to use againso you don't feel that pain of withdrawal,
especially from opiates, is an illnessin itself. It is a choice

(20:15):
though they're using. They could goto a rehab. Choice is a rough
word, Andrew, Well, Imean I'm forty pounds over my shoes.
Well, you're right, Well,I don't know, are you Are you
choosing that that hang down when youeat it? I don't know, It's
not I mean, a choice isa very loaded word. It is you

(20:37):
will have it. And choice offree will is very controversial, and they're
contributing factors, you know why people, for lack of better term, make
the choice so don't make the choiceto improve the journey, you know,
which which in some cases, Ithink in most cases does have something to
do with their level despondency, youknow, within themselves. Can one argue

(21:04):
is that some level of mental illnesson some paras trauma right past trauma,
that's contributing to their inability to youknow, move, move forward. Fear
uh, fear, not believing thatthey can succeed. These are all these
are all issues that need to bework on with with a trained professional.

(21:25):
My thing about the choice is thatyou could go. They could go to
a rehab facility, they could walkin today, they'd be accepted and they
could go. But you're right,there's a lot of and it's and it's
scary and if it's the only lifethey ever knew and the only friends,
the only tribe they have are thosepeople in the street, to go and
where they don't know anybody, andthey might not be welcomed and they might

(21:48):
be looked on differently. What areyou going to choose? You want to
be with your family, right,and so no, you're right. Choice
is a choice is a tough word. I stand by it is. It
is a You can't choose not tobe mental ill. You can't choose you
can't choose not to be an addict, not to have a substance use disorder,
because that's you have that cigarettes cigarettes. Nobody chooses to smoke nobody.

(22:14):
I don't choose to eat ice creamevery night, but it's in my house.
I can't control myself. So Iknow what you mean. I know
what you mean again. Uh,you know these things that when you're a
functioning middle class person you get forgivenwith a lot of stuff, but uh,
you know, when you have addiction, addiction means rationality doesn't work,
and we all brushed up against itto some extent. But also the notion

(22:37):
of stigma, well, being shunnedby the society for things that are outside
your control is a rough part ofthe thing. It sure is you want
to talk about the stigma, well, I mean I just I just uh,
I just did a new commercial that'sgoing to be airing on the iHeart
stations and it's about stigma and it'sabout we need to get past this.

(23:00):
I mean, one one quarter ofour population at any given time has a
mental health or addiction issue that's that'sdiagnosable and requires intervention. But people don't
People don't access that care. Andyou know, one of your one of
your other radio jocks and I weretalking this morning about that and about how

(23:22):
people don't get the care that theyneed and why they don't do it.
He made the great point that whenyou go to your doctor, they always
ask or do you have any depression. Do you have heard? How are
you feeling? And that's a momentthat he said, that's a moment you
can take to be honest. Butwhy don't people be honest about that.
It's their doctor, they should trustthem. They're ashamed and their stigma attached

(23:44):
to it, so then they sufferlonger. And you know, you could
die from depression. That's that's peopledie from that. So you know,
we want people to get help andrealize that it's not something they should be
ashamed about that. You know,we look around the room and one quarter
of the people you standing with havesome type of issue. You're not alone,
and if you took the chance toopen up and share what you're feeling

(24:06):
with somebody, you might be surprised. They might not shun you, but
they might actually say, I completelyunderstand I have the same problem, but
there are things built in them.If you're a middle class person who psychiatrist,
and I think I spent more moneyon psychiatrists than any other person in
does vis country, but there's nota stigma attached to that. If you're
a poor person or your personal colorand you're having mental health issues and you

(24:30):
have less access to treatment, youalso run into a wall of people not
liking you, which compounds that istrue, right, But I think that
if I think that even even theeven the people that are able to middle
class, even even those people,I think that shut down. If you
know, if they if you saidI went to a psychiatrist the other day,

(24:51):
have the people roll their eyes andyou know, so it's it's sad.
I mean, it's it's a healthything to do. It's the right
thing to do, right right.It's not something you can bring up at
the dinner table. Yeah yeah,yeah, yeah. But good luck with
the all the programs you have andexpansion that you talked about in the beginning,
expanding from twenty two million dollars tosix million, twenty two million.

(25:15):
Yeah, well, you know,good arithmetic. Let the viewers know your
website right before we sure, MHAduchess dot org. That's MHA duchess dot
org. Andrew, thank you forbeing with us and to our listeners,
thank you for listening to finding outwith Pete and the poet go. We
appreciate you.