Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the
station it's staff, management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning. You'll find it out beating the Poet Gold
on Peter Leonards and on the Poet Gold, and we're
on it with each other, and we're featuring Poet Gold
with her new project called Be the Poem, Moving Beyond
Your Fears. And before we get to the questions about
on Gold, we're going to go right to one of
her poems from the new book on Gold. Please let
it roll.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Well, I'm actually just simply going to do this morning
Stanza four from Be the Poem the poem itself, Be
the poem that chooses to be fearless, never imprisons the heart,
beckons the soul to rain tears when you're falling apart.
Be the poem that heals and learns to forgive release
in thunderous anger and hate, so you may truly live.
(00:53):
And if it comes a day you should fall ill,
know that cure may not come in the form of
a pill, but in the lines of poetry that would
be more than a prayer. It will shock Hallelujah, your
salvation will be there be the poem.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, that's a poem in an advertisement. Anybody doesn't want
to read the rest of the book. I was not
listening to the poem, and the word Ahlujah is the
key word for me in that. I mean, with all
the notion of fears and travail, you will ultimately have
(01:32):
Ahujah as the centure on your forehead.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Absolutely the breakthrough, you know, the presence and the faith
to know that you can get through.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know what we wanted to try to do here
today called Okay. We've had listeners for years. I've been
around for years with you doing the show and doing
lots of other stuff. But there are poets to you
that people don't know, including me. So I'm not uh
making up questions for other people. But I'm curious about
(02:04):
some things, and oddly enough, the public forum gets me
a chance to ask some private question.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Okay, go right ahead, okay, and I'll let you know
if I want to answer them.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I had to say that, you know, I have no
fear not to go.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I know, not to push the line ahead, go for it.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I don't like them beyond my fear, but you know,
the notion of, uh, you know, this new book and
new projects. You have a bunch of performances around the
Hudson Valley to son that with, but you want to
be surprised and you even have in mind, you know,
of having a much wider audience than the Hudson Valley.
(02:45):
So what's your feelings about fame?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Hmm?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
That's you know, it's so funny you would say that,
because I'm having dinner with some friends and I and
he kept saying, you know, you're famous, your famous, and
each time piece that I kind of cringed a little bit,
you know, because uh, that's That's never been why I
do what I do. You know, It's just it's sort
of the evil necessity that comes with what what what
(03:13):
I do. And and I recognized very young that if
you choose to lean in to be an instrument of
change or an instrument that elevates, then this is a platform.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I was blessed with being a writer. I was blessed
with being performer. It just came naturally and organic to me.
It wasn't anything that I studied how to do. And so,
but what's always been on my mind is how do
we not hurt each other?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
How do we hurt each other?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yes, how do we you know? And then why you
know do we do that?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Why do we do things that that we know will
help hurt the sell? For you hurt the sell if
you hurt someone else, you know, and so and just
exploring that that message and exploring it out loud. And
and what's one of the biggest platforms is entertainment.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
And I mean already you are famous locally. I don't
like you're You're not famous in Kansas City from what
I know.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Not that I know of, but who knows you know,
but you know, but you know, I get, I get,
you know, random people. Sometimes in my Facebook I'll look
to see, uh where someone is contacting me from and
or someone may reach out and and so it's it's
beyond uh read.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, but when you go out and Poughkeepsie a Dutchess County,
people recognize you. That want of us talks to you.
I mean, one of the things I love about being
out with you is I actually enjoy fame and don't
have it. So getting reflected glory is uh, you know
my deal there? And when I say when you reflect it,
you're actually not present so when way together and somebody
(05:01):
sees the two of us, they only see you. But
I really like that part of how you get recognized.
And my observation is how many of what your feelings
are when it happens. You're always very gracious. I mean,
you sort of know people like to know you, and
(05:22):
you put an extra doocal kindness into your interaction with
people who come up to you. You do that conscious
for you.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
It's I would I would say yes, because I mean,
at some point it's just an organic behavior, but at
some point it would become a conscious behavior because they
are recognizing what you do, you know, and acknowledging that
it's important for them. And so you know, you don't
(05:52):
want to reject that. If a person is not being
you know, intrusive and obnoxious, you don't want to if
someone is exhibiting kindness to you, then then why would
you sort of go go away?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And I and I get it, though, there is a
there is a line where moments where you sort of.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Want your privacy.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, and and so, but there are ways to be
able to, you know, say that, there are ways to
be able to say I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I just need a moment here.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, when Kansas City goal, there are no moments of
privacy in Kansas City, you'll rollized there is a thought
or in Minneapolis or whatever journey takes.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I'm actually going doing a a an event. It's on
a Minneapolis prints theme. Uh, in Ithaca, New York at
the Mixed Art Gallery on October third.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I believe it is.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, I've been invited to come out there, and I
guess it'll be a purple theme. And two years ago
I boid purple jacket. So I'm seeing now but still fits.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
One of the companions to fame is money. Uh. From
what I can tell, you have not lived a life
of luxury. No, all right, but you so you're aware
of money and its value and whatnot. Absolutely, if things
(07:18):
worked out well and you actually became rich, how would
that make you feel?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Pretty good?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Primarily because my drive is to build in my community
and so so going back to your initial question about fame,
this for all of this, for me, has always been
a track of service. You know, it's a track of
service for the message. It's a track of service for
the income. Because the income you can turn around and
(07:48):
put it into the things that have meaning for you,
you know some of the nonprofits that have meaning for you.
I mean, my my biggest one of my biggest dreams.
Always say in my family, you know you've made it
if I can pull up a truck of laptops or notebooks,
so to speak, for students in the middle school and
go into the school and say this is for every
(08:09):
student you have.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know, that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Those are Those are the type of things I sit
around thinking about, like what can you you know, take
care of on a real practical level.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So you're more likely your dream of wealth as being
a way of providing computers to kids rather than you know,
luxurious silks and uh and servants to you.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Right, I don't I don't need the big houses. And
I'm happy. I'm happy, you know, the most things I
think I would spend money on his food. I love food,
you know, and and and comfortable shoes, you know. But
other than that, I'm I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So the restaurants in the shoot department, uh, you will
do well. You know something else in terms of that
very offen you use the word journey to refer to
yourself being on a journey. And also I notice you
(09:13):
use the word journey for other people. And this might
be parenthetical to a question. But when there's somebody who
is doing something that I don't approve of, that is
sort of being a skunk you I said, well, they're
on a journey, meaning they might be you might change tomorrow. Well,
(09:35):
can you give us a sense of word. A journey
means steal?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It's an evolution of growth. You know.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You hope that we're all growing, but we're all in
movement every single day, with every single interaction. You may
make a statement to me that that makes me think
about it differently, and then that changes my whole body chemistry,
That changes my perspective, That changes something biological in me,
you know, as well as we begin to think things
(10:02):
out and explore it. I may not respond to it initially,
but it may catch up with me later. I may
sleep and you know, and come up with a whole
different idea because we touched each other in the course
of the day and so so it's it's always, from
my perspective, a journey with the potential to grow.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And I think I must not be getting my point.
You are not critical of other people. In other words,
even if somebody does something that is objectively bad, a
nuisance and annoyance, maybe even evil. You're not quick to
judge them.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I'm not, don't get me wrong. I can get pissed off,
you know. But I also take into the account that
the person is bringing, for lack of a better term,
their baggage, Like I may be bringing my baggage, and
some of it's great and some of it's not great,
And so so I take into the account of the history.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I don't know. I don't know your story.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And is it true to say you're hopeful about this story,
even if it's irksome in the present.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yes, yes, I'm hoping that they that they that they changed.
I had an interaction one time with the women. I
said something to someone and then the way it was
delivered back to someone else was not very positive. So
the person called me up and you know, was really upset,
and I said, when we get together and let's let's
(11:35):
have some food now. They thought the conversation was going
to be very hostile, and it wasn't. I said, because
because the fact of the matter is is that if
I said something, and regardless of my intention, if it
had a negative impact, I'm going to take accountability for
that because I said it. It may not have been
my intention for it to have a negative impact, but
(11:58):
I said it, and so we were able to walk
through that. And she said to me in the conversation,
she said, wow, I thought it was going to be
so different.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
You know, I just like I really I didn't expect
you to say no.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I said that, But I apologize because you know, maybe
I should have said it to you first of all,
and not not to this to this individual that then
had their own embellishment of what I meant.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And I'm going to remind you that. And the listeners
they're finding out with Pete and the poet Gold and
I'm Peter and I'm the poet Gold, and we're talking
about Gold's new projects, a book called Be the Poem
Leving Beyond Your Fears.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And Our Fears Our fears, Okay, I.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Don't want to miss the word our fears, and that
might drop me into a question. I think it's a
personal it's based on an observation. I know the book
is fears essential Components right on the front cover. But
my observation is you live what I consider a feel
(13:05):
less life like it. There's a way in which, of course, fear.
It's easy for you because you don't have it. You
to what extents of my writer wrong in that.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think about this because this has come up often.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Frequently people have said that to me, and my approach
to fear is the way I approach anything that's difficult.
I like to face it. I just want to face
it so that I can get past it. I know
it's going to be uncomfortable, but the sooner I can
face it and get past it, then I can probably
(13:44):
understand get a better outcome, be in control of the outcome.
Running from it creates chaos, creates more negativity, more fear,
more fear, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
And so I've always been.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I think I share this with you before or when
I was about seven or eight, I'm not quite sure
what the exact age. I was watching television as a
child and it was the scene of black people being
hosed on television. Now I didn't know what was going on,
you know, I'm seven or eight, you know, but what
(14:20):
I black people being hosed by white police officers and
white people and they were just, you know, throwing things
at the black people. And I'm trying to feel like,
what's going on? You know, what's going on? But what
I saw was the people who were holding the hose.
What I saw in their eyes behind the anger was fear,
(14:44):
And that stayed with me. Why would someone want to
be so afraid of something that they're bringing harm upon
something else. It wasn't so much about the black and
white that came a little later for me.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It was just us.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You know, these people are like really angry and scared
and look they're hosing these other people down.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Surely after my parents sent me down and they you know,
educated me on what was what was really happening and dumb,
and that then gave me other questions. Why do people
not like people because simply because of race? I was
a but why kid? My mother, you know, always said
you were just a butt?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Why? Everything was? But why? But why?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I asked questions, and it was always the why. But
you know, you can just say something to me and go, okay,
well that's the way it is.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
But why? And so.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
For me.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
As a child, that was left an imprint on me
of how we can become if we are afraid. And
I never wanted to be that afraid. Never ever, ever,
I've approached people when they were attempting to mug me,
(16:00):
and she had words with them because I don't want
to be that afraid. Being afraid is really uncomfortable, and
it sometimes it will destroy your heart, It will destroy
your love, it will destroy your hope. And so I
(16:21):
think it's important for us as human beings to face
our individual fears so that we don't build a world
of collective fears that are extremely damaging to society.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Okay, so that is a very important insight there. But
for you to at seven or eight years old, you
from a television screen, which we're basically black and white
televisions in those days, to see to notice that the people,
the aggressors, the people hosting down the black people, they
(17:00):
was scared. That's a lot. That's a lot of observation.
I mean, that's natural talent, right, I mean, you didn't
have to be trained for that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
It's just what I thought, right, And you know when
there were other little things, you know when and you
know this story, Peter, but you're one of the few
people who knows this story, and so you hear it
a lot more often than the rest of the world.
But the other one, when I said I wanted to
be a priest. And all this happened when I was
about seven or eight years old, because I was in
Catholic school, you know, and you're being taught that you're
(17:33):
a child of God and you're supposed to love thy neighbor.
And my eyes began to be open to things that
were contrary to that, and I didn't understand it, and
so I paid attention, you know, I always paid attention
to the But why why are you telling me this
when I'm watching you doing this. There's a reason why
(17:54):
we do this in our lives. And so when I
asked the priests, can I be a priest?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And he said no?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And I said, why do you say because you're a girl.
It didn't make sense to me as a child. It
didn't make sense based upon what you were teaching me
that God loves me equally the same way he loves
you as a man. But you're telling me now simply
by saying that I'm a girl, You're putting in a
context where I'm less. I'm supposed to be submissive as
(18:22):
a girl. And so it just I quietly, just you know,
sort of took it figured out, how am I going
to still be on my path of spirituality. Maybe I
can't be a priest because this is the system is
that I'm born into and those are the rules, and
it's okay, but I'm still here to do some work.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So by the time you're eight years old, you have
confronted or noticed the issues of race and gender.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I didn't call it that.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I didn't know that, you know, I didn't have the vocabulary,
but I just me something was just not just not right.
You know, you sort of go oh, okay, and you
some little bubbles were being burst.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And so, you know, I can understand how you are.
You're saying some bubbles were being burst a very gentle
way of putting it. You must feel bad, but you're
also considerate of the other side of it. In other words,
you weren't in raised and ripping people's eyes out because
(19:29):
they were saying something that you're gonna like.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
No, because someone taught them that. Yeah, you know, someone
taught them that. So you know, it's like, just I
don't necessarily have to have to go by what you've
been taught, but neither do I have to hate you either,
And I don't have to you know, sit there and
embrace you on on why it should you know, be
(19:53):
my way, so to speak, especially if we're all trying
to get to the other side of the street. As
long as you're not physic sort of doing harm to
someone or causing trauma, then the I'm like, okay, you know,
I get that you feel you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So you have my Catholic vocabulary has maintained itself very
very well, you know. But what you proceed with is
absolution and advance. Absolution is the forgiveness of sins. And
so if somebody expresses their sin to you, expresses rather
(20:37):
than confesses. But if it's evident, you have in one
sense forgiven that in advance and hope for the best
for them.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Right, because I don't feel threatened by it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
So you may have a different perspective, you may be
living a different way, but you're living I don't feel
threatened by you.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well, I would you want to remind you and our
listening audience, they're finding out Pete in the poet Goal
and I'm Peter Leonner and I'm the poet Gold and
we are finding some very very important stuff about poet
Goal in uh as she presents her work be the
poem Living Beyond our fears.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You know, because when we I'm just going to pick
up right before your break, when we feel threatened, we
want to do harm.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You know, we feel threatened. We're living in a in
a time where people are feeling threatened.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, and and so attacked by the.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Way they're being attacked. Absolutely, because because of fear. Because
of fear, fear is totally out of control in in
in our system and our construct and our and our politics,
in our society. It's it's taken over, so to speak, uh,
people's spirits and their ability to to think. And and
(22:00):
some people know this and and are becoming manipulators of it.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So let's go back to that word when you corrected
me before about when I gave the title of the
book as Living Beyond Beyond My our your fears, and
you corrected it very emphatically saying our fears. So that
the book is both a very very personal thing, not
only about you, but about the reader. You're you're very close,
(22:31):
uh to the reader, I can tell from going through
the book. But you're also close to the reader both personally,
individually and collectively. So you're recognizing two sides of that individual.
One the very individual, the very personal side, and then
the collective public or political side.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Right, is that a question in here?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, it is a question.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
The answer.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Trying to figure out what the question was.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The question is most people don't make much of a
distinction between themselves and the public. They think of the
public as something far away and their individuality is something
secret and inside. And what makes you have the vision
(23:23):
that the secret thing inside is intimately connected to the public,
public articulation with other people.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
We're all interconnected, you know, as this is more what
I had in mind, right, you know, as human beings,
we like to believe that their humans walk on the earth,
and then there's everything else. My belief is that we're
all interconnected.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
We're part of the trees, We're part of the grass,
We're part of the clouds, we're part of the sky.
We're all interconnected, if you know. We we can create
harm on the planet by some of the advances that
we have, but we've been given the ingenious to grow,
We've been given the gift. But we are all interconnected.
(24:12):
And my point to this is that when we see harm,
let's say, come to a child that you never met,
or another human being that you never met and and
you will. As humans, we begin to feel emotionally the pain.
Sometimes we cry, sometimes we cheer and support. And why
(24:32):
do we do that? Because we're interconnected as human beings.
So so instead of going your as if to point
the finger, I'm part of this. What happens to you
may ultimately happen to me. My family used to tease
me and would say, I'm going to know all the
(24:54):
neighbors on the block because we're connected.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
We're connected, and okay, in that connectivity and your past
that comes up up in your poetry a lot is
to nature. Also, besides being connected to people, we're connected
to nature in a way that and you bring nature
closer to the reader.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Also, because we're animal, you know, we're mammal, we're we're
still a part of this ecosystem so to speak. We're
not we're not separate from it. If the planet, if
the trees die, right and the bees die, we.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Die, very poetically put let me also, I know, getting
towards the end here the other day night up at
the Center of Creative Education in Kingston, where you gave
a performance and a reading with you know, great backup
and all you know. Somebody asked you a question, A
(25:55):
very enthusiastic young woman said, so, what do you look
at for people to get out of this? And in
my opinion, you didn't answer it her intention. I mean,
your answer was, well, whatever people get out of it,
it's fine with me.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That was my response. And I got to it a
little later because like, I want you to grow.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Oh okay, well, and so let me rephrase my question.
What does it mean to grow?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
To grow means applying if there's if you get something
out of the book, apply it. There's a page that
says this, this is for you. I have some questions
and that do the activity. You know, don't be afraid
to do the activity. No one's picking over your shoulder,
no one's judging you to the activity.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I asked, you have a fear, and.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
In the book itself, confronting your fear, right, you know,
and then taking it a step further. If you find
that you're in a space where you need to speak
with someone about it, find accountslor go to the you know,
begin the healing part for yourself. Because life is very short.
We don't have forever on earth. Life is short. And
(27:10):
my hope is that you connect with your authentic joy.
But I understand that the only way to get there
is through your fear.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, okay, let's underline that if you're if you're really long,
you would underline that. But one thing I've noticed in
your life and your talents is with young people. You
seem if you're on a mission, that mission would be
to the youth. Is that? Am I overstating that? Or
(27:40):
you concentrate on kids a lot and they like you
and they respond to you.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yes, you know, so like the pie Piper a little bit,
I love youth. You know, I'm just a kid in
a in a bigger body, and not that much big
of a body, you know. But but I I've always
protected the the youth inside of me. I think it's
something unique in my family. To my parents, they had
a youthfulness about them always, and my aunt, you know,
(28:10):
my my ninety two year old aunt that's still alive.
There's a youthfulness that that that maintains, and I think
there's a there's a beauty in that.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
And so.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I, you know, I I hope you know it's people
say children are the future, right, but it's a little cliche.
But we have a responsibility to children. You bring them
into the world, we have a responsibility to create safe
spaces for them, spaces for them to thrive, give them
(28:42):
the tools that they need to grow, and create a
non hateful space in order to make that happen.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
And children all the future is sort of a cliche.
More importantly, children are the present.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Right, They're the present, But so with the parents too,
And I speak to a lot of parents and at
company events. You know, it's about all of us. It's
about all of us. Children were just the sort of
a market that I wound up in.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
But children are all so vulnerable. You about your ninety
two year old and being youthful, but also my senses
the vulnerability of youth. You don't want to protect them,
you want to fortify them, right, absolutely, so they're able
to handle the adversity. It comes out of them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Right, right, And that you know, I think part of
that may have come from, you know, waking up one
morning being young and being in the hospital at ten.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
You know, I'm sure some of that is in me,
you know.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Deeply, you mean your physical disability.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Right, right, and and then having that repeat that when
I got ready to go to college, and that was,
you know, completely tossed out the window because it was
a lot worse than so, so just connecting with that,
that life and saying, let me give you some tools
that no matter what happens, you can survive, and you
(30:08):
can do more than survive.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
You can you can find joy, and you can live
in the joy.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And you can live beyond your field, and you.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Can live beyond your fear. You can be the poem Peter.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And live beyond amen. Let me go back to the
other word. Ayah, the amen, and Ayah to you and
Joel listeners and Uncle Michael, who's going to cut us
off right now, Uncle Mike, We're done. Thank you, Thanks
a million goal.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Thank you, Peter,
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the
station it's staff, management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning. You'll find it out beating the Poet Gold
on Peter Leonards and on the Poet Gold, and we're
on it with each other, and we're featuring Poet Gold
with her new project called Be the Poem, Moving Beyond
Your Fears. And before we get to the questions about
on Gold, we're going to go right to one of
her poems from the new book on Gold. Please let
it roll.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Well, I'm actually just simply going to do this morning
Stanza four from Be the Poem the poem itself, Be
the poem that chooses to be fearless, never imprisons the heart,
beckons the soul to rain tears when you're falling apart.
Be the poem that heals and learns to forgive release
in thunderous anger and hate, so you may truly live.
(00:53):
And if it comes a day you should fall ill,
know that cure may not come in the form of
a pill, but in the lines of poetry that would
be more than a prayer. It will shock Hallelujah, your
salvation will be there be the poem.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, that's a poem in an advertisement. Anybody doesn't want
to read the rest of the book. I was not
listening to the poem, and the word Ahlujah is the
key word for me in that. I mean, with all
the notion of fears and travail, you will ultimately have
(01:32):
Ahujah as the centure on your forehead.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Absolutely the breakthrough, you know, the presence and the faith
to know that you can get through.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know what we wanted to try to do here
today called Okay. We've had listeners for years. I've been
around for years with you doing the show and doing
lots of other stuff. But there are poets to you
that people don't know, including me. So I'm not uh
making up questions for other people. But I'm curious about
(02:04):
some things, and oddly enough, the public forum gets me
a chance to ask some private question.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Okay, go right ahead, okay, and I'll let you know
if I want to answer them.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I had to say that, you know, I have no
fear not to go.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I know, not to push the line ahead, go for it.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I don't like them beyond my fear, but you know,
the notion of, uh, you know, this new book and
new projects. You have a bunch of performances around the
Hudson Valley to son that with, but you want to
be surprised and you even have in mind, you know,
of having a much wider audience than the Hudson Valley.
(02:45):
So what's your feelings about fame?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Hmm?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
That's you know, it's so funny you would say that,
because I'm having dinner with some friends and I and
he kept saying, you know, you're famous, your famous, and
each time piece that I kind of cringed a little bit,
you know, because uh, that's That's never been why I
do what I do. You know, It's just it's sort
of the evil necessity that comes with what what what
(03:13):
I do. And and I recognized very young that if
you choose to lean in to be an instrument of
change or an instrument that elevates, then this is a platform.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I was blessed with being a writer. I was blessed
with being performer. It just came naturally and organic to me.
It wasn't anything that I studied how to do. And so,
but what's always been on my mind is how do
we not hurt each other?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
How do we hurt each other?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yes, how do we you know? And then why you
know do we do that?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Why do we do things that that we know will
help hurt the sell? For you hurt the sell if
you hurt someone else, you know, and so and just
exploring that that message and exploring it out loud. And
and what's one of the biggest platforms is entertainment.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
And I mean already you are famous locally. I don't
like you're You're not famous in Kansas City from what
I know.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Not that I know of, but who knows you know,
but you know, but you know, I get, I get,
you know, random people. Sometimes in my Facebook I'll look
to see, uh where someone is contacting me from and
or someone may reach out and and so it's it's
beyond uh read.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, but when you go out and Poughkeepsie a Dutchess County,
people recognize you. That want of us talks to you.
I mean, one of the things I love about being
out with you is I actually enjoy fame and don't
have it. So getting reflected glory is uh, you know
my deal there? And when I say when you reflect it,
you're actually not present so when way together and somebody
(05:01):
sees the two of us, they only see you. But
I really like that part of how you get recognized.
And my observation is how many of what your feelings
are when it happens. You're always very gracious. I mean,
you sort of know people like to know you, and
(05:22):
you put an extra doocal kindness into your interaction with
people who come up to you. You do that conscious
for you.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
It's I would I would say yes, because I mean,
at some point it's just an organic behavior, but at
some point it would become a conscious behavior because they
are recognizing what you do, you know, and acknowledging that
it's important for them. And so you know, you don't
(05:52):
want to reject that. If a person is not being
you know, intrusive and obnoxious, you don't want to if
someone is exhibiting kindness to you, then then why would
you sort of go go away?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And I and I get it, though, there is a
there is a line where moments where you sort of.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Want your privacy.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, and and so, but there are ways to be
able to, you know, say that, there are ways to
be able to say I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I just need a moment here.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, when Kansas City goal, there are no moments of
privacy in Kansas City, you'll rollized there is a thought
or in Minneapolis or whatever journey takes.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I'm actually going doing a a an event. It's on
a Minneapolis prints theme. Uh, in Ithaca, New York at
the Mixed Art Gallery on October third.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I believe it is.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, I've been invited to come out there, and I
guess it'll be a purple theme. And two years ago
I boid purple jacket. So I'm seeing now but still fits.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
One of the companions to fame is money. Uh. From
what I can tell, you have not lived a life
of luxury. No, all right, but you so you're aware
of money and its value and whatnot. Absolutely, if things
(07:18):
worked out well and you actually became rich, how would
that make you feel?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Pretty good?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Primarily because my drive is to build in my community
and so so going back to your initial question about fame,
this for all of this, for me, has always been
a track of service. You know, it's a track of
service for the message. It's a track of service for
the income. Because the income you can turn around and
(07:48):
put it into the things that have meaning for you,
you know some of the nonprofits that have meaning for you.
I mean, my my biggest one of my biggest dreams.
Always say in my family, you know you've made it
if I can pull up a truck of laptops or notebooks,
so to speak, for students in the middle school and
go into the school and say this is for every
(08:09):
student you have.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know, that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Those are Those are the type of things I sit
around thinking about, like what can you you know, take
care of on a real practical level.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So you're more likely your dream of wealth as being
a way of providing computers to kids rather than you know,
luxurious silks and uh and servants to you.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Right, I don't I don't need the big houses. And
I'm happy. I'm happy, you know, the most things I
think I would spend money on his food. I love food,
you know, and and and comfortable shoes, you know. But
other than that, I'm I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So the restaurants in the shoot department, uh, you will
do well. You know something else in terms of that
very offen you use the word journey to refer to
yourself being on a journey. And also I notice you
(09:13):
use the word journey for other people. And this might
be parenthetical to a question. But when there's somebody who
is doing something that I don't approve of, that is
sort of being a skunk you I said, well, they're
on a journey, meaning they might be you might change tomorrow. Well,
(09:35):
can you give us a sense of word. A journey
means steal?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It's an evolution of growth. You know.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You hope that we're all growing, but we're all in
movement every single day, with every single interaction. You may
make a statement to me that that makes me think
about it differently, and then that changes my whole body chemistry,
That changes my perspective, That changes something biological in me,
you know, as well as we begin to think things
(10:02):
out and explore it. I may not respond to it initially,
but it may catch up with me later. I may
sleep and you know, and come up with a whole
different idea because we touched each other in the course
of the day and so so it's it's always, from
my perspective, a journey with the potential to grow.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And I think I must not be getting my point.
You are not critical of other people. In other words,
even if somebody does something that is objectively bad, a
nuisance and annoyance, maybe even evil. You're not quick to
judge them.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I'm not, don't get me wrong. I can get pissed off,
you know. But I also take into the account that
the person is bringing, for lack of a better term,
their baggage, Like I may be bringing my baggage, and
some of it's great and some of it's not great,
And so so I take into the account of the history.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I don't know. I don't know your story.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And is it true to say you're hopeful about this story,
even if it's irksome in the present.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yes, yes, I'm hoping that they that they that they changed.
I had an interaction one time with the women. I
said something to someone and then the way it was
delivered back to someone else was not very positive. So
the person called me up and you know, was really upset,
and I said, when we get together and let's let's
(11:35):
have some food now. They thought the conversation was going
to be very hostile, and it wasn't. I said, because
because the fact of the matter is is that if
I said something, and regardless of my intention, if it
had a negative impact, I'm going to take accountability for
that because I said it. It may not have been
my intention for it to have a negative impact, but
(11:58):
I said it, and so we were able to walk
through that. And she said to me in the conversation,
she said, wow, I thought it was going to be
so different.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
You know, I just like I really I didn't expect
you to say no.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I said that, But I apologize because you know, maybe
I should have said it to you first of all,
and not not to this to this individual that then
had their own embellishment of what I meant.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And I'm going to remind you that. And the listeners
they're finding out with Pete and the poet Gold and
I'm Peter and I'm the poet Gold, and we're talking
about Gold's new projects, a book called Be the Poem
Leving Beyond Your Fears.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And Our Fears Our fears, Okay, I.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Don't want to miss the word our fears, and that
might drop me into a question. I think it's a
personal it's based on an observation. I know the book
is fears essential Components right on the front cover. But
my observation is you live what I consider a feel
(13:05):
less life like it. There's a way in which, of course, fear.
It's easy for you because you don't have it. You
to what extents of my writer wrong in that.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think about this because this has come up often.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Frequently people have said that to me, and my approach
to fear is the way I approach anything that's difficult.
I like to face it. I just want to face
it so that I can get past it. I know
it's going to be uncomfortable, but the sooner I can
face it and get past it, then I can probably
(13:44):
understand get a better outcome, be in control of the outcome.
Running from it creates chaos, creates more negativity, more fear,
more fear, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
And so I've always been.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I think I share this with you before or when
I was about seven or eight, I'm not quite sure
what the exact age. I was watching television as a
child and it was the scene of black people being
hosed on television. Now I didn't know what was going on,
you know, I'm seven or eight, you know, but what
(14:20):
I black people being hosed by white police officers and
white people and they were just, you know, throwing things
at the black people. And I'm trying to feel like,
what's going on? You know, what's going on? But what
I saw was the people who were holding the hose.
What I saw in their eyes behind the anger was fear,
(14:44):
And that stayed with me. Why would someone want to
be so afraid of something that they're bringing harm upon
something else. It wasn't so much about the black and
white that came a little later for me.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It was just us.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You know, these people are like really angry and scared
and look they're hosing these other people down.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Surely after my parents sent me down and they you know,
educated me on what was what was really happening and dumb,
and that then gave me other questions. Why do people
not like people because simply because of race? I was
a but why kid? My mother, you know, always said
you were just a butt?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Why? Everything was? But why? But why?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I asked questions, and it was always the why. But
you know, you can just say something to me and go, okay,
well that's the way it is.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
But why? And so.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
For me.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
As a child, that was left an imprint on me
of how we can become if we are afraid. And
I never wanted to be that afraid. Never ever, ever,
I've approached people when they were attempting to mug me,
(16:00):
and she had words with them because I don't want
to be that afraid. Being afraid is really uncomfortable, and
it sometimes it will destroy your heart, It will destroy
your love, it will destroy your hope. And so I
(16:21):
think it's important for us as human beings to face
our individual fears so that we don't build a world
of collective fears that are extremely damaging to society.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Okay, so that is a very important insight there. But
for you to at seven or eight years old, you
from a television screen, which we're basically black and white
televisions in those days, to see to notice that the people,
the aggressors, the people hosting down the black people, they
(17:00):
was scared. That's a lot. That's a lot of observation.
I mean, that's natural talent, right, I mean, you didn't
have to be trained for that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
It's just what I thought, right, And you know when
there were other little things, you know when and you
know this story, Peter, but you're one of the few
people who knows this story, and so you hear it
a lot more often than the rest of the world.
But the other one, when I said I wanted to
be a priest. And all this happened when I was
about seven or eight years old, because I was in
Catholic school, you know, and you're being taught that you're
(17:33):
a child of God and you're supposed to love thy neighbor.
And my eyes began to be open to things that
were contrary to that, and I didn't understand it, and
so I paid attention, you know, I always paid attention
to the But why why are you telling me this
when I'm watching you doing this. There's a reason why
(17:54):
we do this in our lives. And so when I
asked the priests, can I be a priest?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And he said no?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And I said, why do you say because you're a girl.
It didn't make sense to me as a child. It
didn't make sense based upon what you were teaching me
that God loves me equally the same way he loves
you as a man. But you're telling me now simply
by saying that I'm a girl, You're putting in a
context where I'm less. I'm supposed to be submissive as
(18:22):
a girl. And so it just I quietly, just you know,
sort of took it figured out, how am I going
to still be on my path of spirituality. Maybe I
can't be a priest because this is the system is
that I'm born into and those are the rules, and
it's okay, but I'm still here to do some work.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So by the time you're eight years old, you have
confronted or noticed the issues of race and gender.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I didn't call it that.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I didn't know that, you know, I didn't have the vocabulary,
but I just me something was just not just not right.
You know, you sort of go oh, okay, and you
some little bubbles were being burst.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And so, you know, I can understand how you are.
You're saying some bubbles were being burst a very gentle
way of putting it. You must feel bad, but you're
also considerate of the other side of it. In other words,
you weren't in raised and ripping people's eyes out because
(19:29):
they were saying something that you're gonna like.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
No, because someone taught them that. Yeah, you know, someone
taught them that. So you know, it's like, just I
don't necessarily have to have to go by what you've
been taught, but neither do I have to hate you either,
And I don't have to you know, sit there and
embrace you on on why it should you know, be
(19:53):
my way, so to speak, especially if we're all trying
to get to the other side of the street. As
long as you're not physic sort of doing harm to
someone or causing trauma, then the I'm like, okay, you know,
I get that you feel you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So you have my Catholic vocabulary has maintained itself very
very well, you know. But what you proceed with is
absolution and advance. Absolution is the forgiveness of sins. And
so if somebody expresses their sin to you, expresses rather
(20:37):
than confesses. But if it's evident, you have in one
sense forgiven that in advance and hope for the best
for them.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Right, because I don't feel threatened by it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
So you may have a different perspective, you may be
living a different way, but you're living I don't feel
threatened by you.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well, I would you want to remind you and our
listening audience, they're finding out Pete in the poet Goal
and I'm Peter Leonner and I'm the poet Gold and
we are finding some very very important stuff about poet
Goal in uh as she presents her work be the
poem Living Beyond our fears.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You know, because when we I'm just going to pick
up right before your break, when we feel threatened, we
want to do harm.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You know, we feel threatened. We're living in a in
a time where people are feeling threatened.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, and and so attacked by the.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Way they're being attacked. Absolutely, because because of fear. Because
of fear, fear is totally out of control in in
in our system and our construct and our and our politics,
in our society. It's it's taken over, so to speak, uh,
people's spirits and their ability to to think. And and
(22:00):
some people know this and and are becoming manipulators of it.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So let's go back to that word when you corrected
me before about when I gave the title of the
book as Living Beyond Beyond My our your fears, and
you corrected it very emphatically saying our fears. So that
the book is both a very very personal thing, not
only about you, but about the reader. You're you're very close,
(22:31):
uh to the reader, I can tell from going through
the book. But you're also close to the reader both personally,
individually and collectively. So you're recognizing two sides of that individual.
One the very individual, the very personal side, and then
the collective public or political side.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Right, is that a question in here?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, it is a question.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
The answer.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Trying to figure out what the question was.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The question is most people don't make much of a
distinction between themselves and the public. They think of the
public as something far away and their individuality is something
secret and inside. And what makes you have the vision
(23:23):
that the secret thing inside is intimately connected to the public,
public articulation with other people.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
We're all interconnected, you know, as this is more what
I had in mind, right, you know, as human beings,
we like to believe that their humans walk on the earth,
and then there's everything else. My belief is that we're
all interconnected.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
We're part of the trees, We're part of the grass,
We're part of the clouds, we're part of the sky.
We're all interconnected, if you know. We we can create
harm on the planet by some of the advances that
we have, but we've been given the ingenious to grow,
We've been given the gift. But we are all interconnected.
(24:12):
And my point to this is that when we see harm,
let's say, come to a child that you never met,
or another human being that you never met and and
you will. As humans, we begin to feel emotionally the pain.
Sometimes we cry, sometimes we cheer and support. And why
(24:32):
do we do that? Because we're interconnected as human beings.
So so instead of going your as if to point
the finger, I'm part of this. What happens to you
may ultimately happen to me. My family used to tease
me and would say, I'm going to know all the
(24:54):
neighbors on the block because we're connected.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
We're connected, and okay, in that connectivity and your past
that comes up up in your poetry a lot is
to nature. Also, besides being connected to people, we're connected
to nature in a way that and you bring nature
closer to the reader.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Also, because we're animal, you know, we're mammal, we're we're
still a part of this ecosystem so to speak. We're
not we're not separate from it. If the planet, if
the trees die, right and the bees die, we.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Die, very poetically put let me also, I know, getting
towards the end here the other day night up at
the Center of Creative Education in Kingston, where you gave
a performance and a reading with you know, great backup
and all you know. Somebody asked you a question, A
(25:55):
very enthusiastic young woman said, so, what do you look
at for people to get out of this? And in
my opinion, you didn't answer it her intention. I mean,
your answer was, well, whatever people get out of it,
it's fine with me.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That was my response. And I got to it a
little later because like, I want you to grow.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Oh okay, well, and so let me rephrase my question.
What does it mean to grow?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
To grow means applying if there's if you get something
out of the book, apply it. There's a page that
says this, this is for you. I have some questions
and that do the activity. You know, don't be afraid
to do the activity. No one's picking over your shoulder,
no one's judging you to the activity.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I asked, you have a fear, and.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
In the book itself, confronting your fear, right, you know,
and then taking it a step further. If you find
that you're in a space where you need to speak
with someone about it, find accountslor go to the you know,
begin the healing part for yourself. Because life is very short.
We don't have forever on earth. Life is short. And
(27:10):
my hope is that you connect with your authentic joy.
But I understand that the only way to get there
is through your fear.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, okay, let's underline that if you're if you're really long,
you would underline that. But one thing I've noticed in
your life and your talents is with young people. You
seem if you're on a mission, that mission would be
to the youth. Is that? Am I overstating that? Or
(27:40):
you concentrate on kids a lot and they like you
and they respond to you.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yes, you know, so like the pie Piper a little bit,
I love youth. You know, I'm just a kid in
a in a bigger body, and not that much big
of a body, you know. But but I I've always
protected the the youth inside of me. I think it's
something unique in my family. To my parents, they had
a youthfulness about them always, and my aunt, you know,
(28:10):
my my ninety two year old aunt that's still alive.
There's a youthfulness that that that maintains, and I think
there's a there's a beauty in that.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
And so.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I, you know, I I hope you know it's people
say children are the future, right, but it's a little cliche.
But we have a responsibility to children. You bring them
into the world, we have a responsibility to create safe
spaces for them, spaces for them to thrive, give them
(28:42):
the tools that they need to grow, and create a
non hateful space in order to make that happen.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
And children all the future is sort of a cliche.
More importantly, children are the present.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Right, They're the present, But so with the parents too,
And I speak to a lot of parents and at
company events. You know, it's about all of us. It's
about all of us. Children were just the sort of
a market that I wound up in.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
But children are all so vulnerable. You about your ninety
two year old and being youthful, but also my senses
the vulnerability of youth. You don't want to protect them,
you want to fortify them, right, absolutely, so they're able
to handle the adversity. It comes out of them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Right, right, And that you know, I think part of
that may have come from, you know, waking up one
morning being young and being in the hospital at ten.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
You know, I'm sure some of that is in me,
you know.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Deeply, you mean your physical disability.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Right, right, and and then having that repeat that when
I got ready to go to college, and that was,
you know, completely tossed out the window because it was
a lot worse than so, so just connecting with that,
that life and saying, let me give you some tools
that no matter what happens, you can survive, and you
(30:08):
can do more than survive.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
You can you can find joy, and you can live
in the joy.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And you can live beyond your field, and you.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Can live beyond your fear. You can be the poem Peter.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And live beyond amen. Let me go back to the
other word. Ayah, the amen, and Ayah to you and
Joel listeners and Uncle Michael, who's going to cut us
off right now, Uncle Mike, We're done. Thank you, Thanks
a million goal.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Thank you, Peter,
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