Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer. Those
are the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out at Pete and the Poet Cold.
I'm Peter Leonards and I'm the poet Gold. And today
we're finding out more about poet Gold poal revealing, and
she's revealing more about her new book and her tour
coming up, a new book called Be the Poem, Living Behind,
Beyond Our Hope, our Fears, Fears and uh Gold, Yeah,
(00:34):
I know we last week we did a show on this,
but it seemed to be so revealing that I thought that, oh, sorry,
it would it would be worth doing another show to
go to other parts of your life that I know.
You're not somebody who will hides things. There's more to
your life then it appears at first, Right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, I guess it's a perspective, but yes, I yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well let me say what I really mean, Say what
you really mean. You've had a life of disability, and
you speak very frankly about it. Yes, but when you
speak frankly about it, it covers something. In other words,
you speak about your physical disabilities with such an ordinariness
(01:22):
and even an optimism that it covers up or at
least camouflages the suffering you've done around physical disability and
continue to do. I don't know anybody who thinks of
you as a chronically ill person.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And you are.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Kay.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
It's had I done a poem at the beginning of
the show today, it would be this very short one.
It's it's either the cliff or the distant horizon. Choose
the horizon.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, thank you for two things. One is correction our
oversight of not having a upon me to the beginning
of the show. And thank you for clarifying. So you
are choosing the horizon. You're choosing the future rather than
the aches and pains of the past the present right because.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I'm here, you know, I'm I awake, and the moment
I awake, I take each day one day at a time,
one day at a time, because I don't know what
tomorrow is going to bring, and so so when I awake,
there's a choice do I sort of succumb to the
to the pain that I'm feeling, which is which is
(02:32):
totally acceptable. You know, there's nothing wrong with people who
choose to do that, but I I want to live.
I want to live the life that I've imagined. You
know that that that I want to connect with, that
I want to experience with and uh to experience and
so so I choose present, but I choose the horizon.
I take the day it's it's there's no doubt that
I'm I'm going to be in pain. I'll be honest
(02:53):
with you. The the times that I'm not in pain
is when very similar to right now, when I have
some type of signus infection in my immune system has
something really to fight and I know that I'm getting
better when the inflammation everything comes back because now it's
fighting me.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Okay, so let me go back to the part where
it is nothing wrong with choosing to be in pain
and crow about it. People who complain about their pain
are much less likely to have a lot of friends,
will be popular than you are. So there's something there's
an immediate pay you off to choosing the horizon or
(03:30):
choosing an optimism or even as I'm sort of confronting you,
it's too strong a word, but I'm sort of making
evident you are presenting yourself in a way that's not
completely in mind with what you're experiencing. You're very often
experiencing pain and presenting yourself as if you're just in
(03:54):
one of the happy campus at the party.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I mean, I've been at this a long time. I mean,
you know, it's it's it's my childhood story. And uh
and at some point there was, you know, there was
I don't know if I shared the story with you.
In school, in prep school, there was another young girl
and it was Jonie and Joni. Jonie was always on
the sideline in the gym, so she didn't have she
(04:20):
didn't have the capabilities, the ability to to play some
of the games that we would play during gym, and
and Jonie always stuck with me. I was like, I'm
gonna I'm gonna put this bowl in the basket for you, Joni,
you know, because I always felt that I was a
stone's throwaway from that from that space, because I was
suffering then was not quite diagnosed. But it turned out
(04:42):
that we we had the same type of ailment, except
hers came with a lot more deformity than than mine did,
which prevented her from being able to you know, run
or skip or hop or jump rope and and but
so so I often reflect on Jony and and I
look at I looked at my life as as sort of,
(05:03):
you know, live this, live this experience for Joni, you know,
because there's a lot of different Joonies out there, and
so you go have some phone, but you have some
phone for Joanie too.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So you experienced this very very personal thing of your
own disability in a in a very communal way. There
are other people suffering that you're going to get some
joy for.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, So there's there's some smile in their day,
you know, and some some joy in their day. I
had a student a couple of years ago who said
to me, we were we were just doing a poem
about really one of Rudy Francisco's poems, actually shared with
them in the class, and we were he talks about,
(05:46):
you know, apologies in the in the context of of
sort of like, don't don't feel bad for me. So
you're having a bad day, he says, you're having a
bad day, Well, think about this person who's having.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
A bad day.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So so rightfully, so she raised her hand and she said,
but doesn't that sort of devaluate what you're feeling. And
I said, that's a good point, I said, I said
that point right, I said, no, I said, you can
acknowledge what you're feeling at the same time acknowledging that
your legs may be hurting, which might always do.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But then I look at.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
The person who has no feed and I'm grateful for
the legs that I have and the feet that I
have because I still can use them. You know, in
life may be challenging, and it doesn't take away I
don't feel it takes away from from my pain and
acknowledging that, but there's there's this space where, yeah, we kid,
(06:35):
you're not the only person that's having a bad.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Day, and so you're in solidarity with other people who suffer.
Ye as you're being you know, and I don't mean
to make it sound as if you're dishonest, but as
you present yourself as somebody who's unequivocally in a good
mood and feeling swell.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I'm in a good mood. I actually.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's it's so much
a part of I've learned to cope, you know, it's
so much, it's so much a part of of of
my life. And since, like I said, since I was
ten years old. It's just it's been you know. It's
like brushing your teeth. This is this is what's going
to happen. That's why I tell friends sometimes when they
talk about aging and get I said, listen, honey, I've
(07:23):
been here since ten, so you're catching up with me now.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm more actually a complainer than you are. And you know,
all crow about my aches and pains to you, and
I do it in good faith. I'm really feeling them.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I know you are, and I'm not.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Holding back just because you're worse pain.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And I have those moments, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I have the moments with people even go oh, you know,
and it may be a discovery of of something that's
shifted someplace that shouldn't be shifting and poked an organ somewhere,
you know, and I'm like, oh, okay, I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But you present that in my experience more curiosity, you know,
you said, you know my shoulders are hurting, you know,
as if you're curious about it rather than suffering from it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Right, because I want to know if it's if it's
if it's new, then I need to I need to
discover the depth of what's going on so I can
manage it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That's that's always my thing.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So this is relevant in terms of you revealing yourself
on the air here, it's relevant to the book because, uh,
you know, the book is you be the poem, and
poems can be complicated things, and it can be more
than one thing at a time. Is the nature of poetry.
(08:41):
And one of the things where the disability is sometimes
associated with in our minds, or at least in and
our fears and fears. A major theme with you is death.
And you've had in the last two and a half years,
you've had way more death then standard then it was
(09:03):
statistically expected.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Anomaly.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Absolutely, absolutely, you want to talk about that? From my
observation is death. Your mother was the most profound lorsue
of it. Do you want to talk about your mother
for a moment.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
My mom for me was we talk about God. We
had a guest on what we were talking about God
and Jesus. So so my mom was God to me.
You know, it's as God made men the image of himself,
and that I said, I came through my mother as
a vessel and my parents, and so they represented for
me the closeness that one could feel with God and
(09:41):
and and my mother is a super kind person. I mean,
even when people showed up to celebrate her life, she
was that mother for so many people, and she was
that fun and that kindness for so many people. And
I remember saying from the from the pulpit, so to speak,
(10:01):
that if you want to honor her, then then take
what she gave you and apply it. Don't just take it,
you know, don't don't let her be the person you
just called to dump on. You know, take what she
gave you because she was giving it to you, and
use it and applied in your life, and grow from
(10:22):
it and change the little thing that whatever it was
that you were on the phone with her for two hours,
you know, you know, whatever she was giving you, whatever
you're testifying to appear at this pulpit now, then take
it and change and grow and do that, you know.
And so so so, my sister had just passed. It
(10:43):
hadn't even been a year when my mother passed, and
it hadn't even been a week two weeks between my
mother's death. And she's my younger cousin, but I call
her my niece because we lived together. And my niece
had twenty four died suddenly and then two weeks later
my mom died. And then and then her sister died
(11:05):
three less than three months after that, my first cousin died,
you know, So so all of them were just none
of them were expected.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
My mom fell.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
And unfortunately, she had a severe fall and her heart
came out of the cavity of her chest, which I
didn't even know was possible. But and so two weeks
later she succumbed. Even though we spoke, you know, on
the phone every day, and and and she everyone thought
she was okay, and then until she wasn't, you know,
So that was that, you know, to have all.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That exactly mean was your mother's always a big deal,
but it was a sister as well as your niece
you live with so many years. There's a way in
which that can be debilitating. I mean, so in what
sense I never actually heard me before? Did you ability
(11:58):
to almost manage your pain? Did those habits or skills
uh becoming useful when you're managing a grief?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yes, I definitely, I definitely grieve it from time to time.
I still grieve, you know. It's grief is is a
very interesting thing because it it comes in ebbs and flows,
and but I also recognized one I was in the
midst of writing this book and I needed to take
a big break from the book because I didn't want
the book to necessarily turn into a book about grief,
(12:31):
because it's it's about it's about joy, it's about courage,
and grief is a part of that, you know, And
so this added a different component, so to speak. I
have two poems, one for my niece and and and
one for my sister in the section of joy and
and UH being able to recognize what they brought to
the world for the short life that they have lived
(12:54):
in this world and UH, but definitely coping through the
years of living with a chronic illness. Survival kicked in
that I needed to emotionally survive not only for myself,
but for my UH sisters children who are who are
(13:15):
all adults, but yet who have lost their mother at
a at a younger age. My nephew had just lost
his father about two years ago, and so that kind
of stuff was on my mind. You know that that
that you you want to hold onto your strength for
those that you love and and as well as hold
(13:39):
onto your strength for yourself because you enjoy living.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I enjoy.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I enjoy being happy, you know, but I also recognize
that it's important to go through the grief, acknowledge the grief,
acknowledge the anger, acknowledge I mean, I was pissed off,
you know, talk about that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Thank you for dealing with it yourself. Yes, I actually did,
and I periody noticed sometimes your energy was lower, but
I never uh and we we're together a lot. I
never noticed you uh as being in a bad mood.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, the bad mood. I was just I was just angry.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I was disappointed, you know, just everything, all the confusion
that comes with a sudden death, you know, death, the
death you don't you don't expect to happen, and you
you know, you ask why, and then I'm just like,
well why not? You know. It's it's saying death is
not singular. We all experience it.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And one of the things we experience is is.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
You're listening to finding Out with Pete and the poet Gold,
and I'm Peter and I'm the poet Gold.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And we're into doing an interview with Gold herself for
her revealed points of herself that don't come up necessarily,
don't don't come up on the regular show, but are
important now people perspective that they might find useful when
they buy and read or a new book called be
(15:05):
the poem, Living Beyond Our Fears. And you get in
a lot of trouble with gold if you miss the
title and say living beyond my fears.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And what's really important.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I want people to know if they decide to sorry,
if they decide to look on Amazon for the book,
they have to put in the whole title. So if
you just put be the poem, it's not going to
come up. You have to put in be the poem,
Living Beyond our Fears. I know it's a long title,
but it's the title I was feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
For Okay, and for me, the word poem certainly makes
the difference. But the notion that fears are like other emotions,
they're collective. In other words, my fear is not privileged
over our fears, so it's living beyond our fears. And
(15:56):
you mentioned the difference, and you might just have a
comments on her the different Like, your sister was sick
for a while. Are sure it was less sudden than
your mother's death or your nieces?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, my sister had Doreen had a rare form of
cancer in the small intestine.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It was discovered.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It was just a routine kind of oh, you know,
you're having some bleeding in your small intestine. We think
we know where it is. But no one knew they
were going for a mass. They were just going to
call the risee a vein, you know. And what I
didn't know is that when you have a colonoscopy in America,
they don't look at the small intestines because this particular
type of cancer is so rare, maybe about ten thousand
(16:37):
people get it, if that much, in America, And so
your small intestine has never looked at in that process
when you have a colonoscopy. I think they did the
whole thing, but they don't. And so so this was
just discovered at random. And when they went in to
car theize the the vein, there was a big old
mass and they couldn't even get in there. And so,
(16:58):
and it was already stage four. So they had given
her about five years. I think she had only really four.
She had three quality years maybe, you know, between the
chemo and everything, and it was it was pretty quick,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Oh but it's compared to your niece.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Oh yeah, my niece and my mom. Yeah, my niece.
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Uh, she and I have the same type of chronic illness.
She was diagnosed later, but we were all pretty happy
because the medicines are different now than they were when
I was a child, So that probably would have saved
her from having a number of surgeries and number of
replacements and titanium throughout their body.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
But but one of the other things that you have
embolisms that can happen. I've been very fortunate and she
was not so. So she suddenly had several embolisms that
took her life.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And the message to us is that disability illness is
part of life, and so is even sudden death. Right, Yeah,
And then the book is useful in terms of doing that.
I know your sister. The poem in the book is
called the Last Christmas.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yes, the Last Christmas, And you go through you how
she enjoyed Christmas, and you know, she seems to have
a lot of talents in that direction.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Then you say, she mentioned this could be my last Christmas.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
She did.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And the sort of sudden shift into recognizing the problem,
dealing with it, or not being afraid of it is
startling in the poem.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Right, right, And and that and that was really drawn
from her literally because she said that it was her
last Christmas. She said, she you know, she got everyone gifts,
tons of gifts. You know, I'm like, I'm gonna go
back to New York with all of this, you know,
I'm gonna have to leave some of this down.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Here in Florida.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And and and it was, you know, just beautiful Christmas.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And she was always that way in Christmas.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
She even at her job, she was the person that
that everyone went to her to do the Christmas shopping.
You know, what do you call it when the exchanging
of gifts, gifts the Santa thing that they do Secret Santa.
She was delegated the task to buy everything Secret Santa
and and create all the activities.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
And she loved, she loved doing that.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And so so her last Christmas, she said, you know,
to my response of cis this is just you know
too much? And she said, get it now, because this
may be my last Christmas. She said, you just don't.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Know statement And it was.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And we might remind.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
People that you're tuning in and listening to finding out
with Pete and the Poet Goals and I'm the poet goals.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
And we're joining. The poet calls new book be the
poem Living Beyond Our Fields. And if you're looking for
on Amazon, put the whole title then and you'll be
able to buy that book. And yes, you'll do those
a little big favorite.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
And part of the proceeds from the book also go
to a local nonprofit in the Hudson Valley call it
Real Skills Network.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
As well, Real Skills Network, which you've been active in
for several years. Uh. One of the themes of Real
Skills is race. And uh, you I don't know anybody
who's more bicultural in terms of you're genuinely comfortable in
(20:20):
the black world as well as the white world. And uh,
that biculturalism is uh disarming. It's surprising you want to
talk about issues of race from that perspective that you
actually have experience and talent both with.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I grew up in both worlds, you know, so, and
you know, and I wasn't raised from a sense of
ergo the fears, you know it a sense of otherism
as as a child. Uh, you know, my parents always
exposed me to different cultures, to different people, and I
think part of that was so that there wasn't that
(21:05):
fear even though even though we were living in a
racist world, you know, in a racist country. But there's
also there's also beauty here. That's that's that's one part
of it. That's one part of it. But but you're
also born into a gift of life, and so what
are you going to bring to the table that could
(21:25):
possibly change that or raise awareness or or or facilitate
growth so that people can understand what they may be
afraid of, people can open doors and work through their
different fears that prevent them from from living a joyful life,
because that's what fear does.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But I think very few people are willing to admit
that they're afraid of black people, and white people in
general are afraid of able, oh absolutely, And black people
are courtious about white.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
People absolutely rightfully, So yeah, right, rightfully.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So why people have a reason for it? To white people,
you don't have as much We don't have as much reason.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And I have conversations all my life with white people
about you know, why are you afraid? Let's let's unpack it.
You know, I'm not afraid to have that conversation, and
I'm not right, absolutely absolutely, And that's why that's why
the conversation needs to be done with compassion, you know,
and and not you know, like why are you afraid
(22:28):
of me?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
You know, it's it's really having the having the conversation.
And if you're if you're in someone, if you're having
a conversation with someone, that's not what I call down
completely down the rabbit hole. People don't want to be frightened.
Being frightened is a very uncomfortable feeling and and it
makes you do irrational things, even to yourself, you know,
(22:51):
because the process of hate is more self harming sometimes
to the self than it is to the person that
you're trying to hate.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, just from a point of view telling the truth.
I mean, I mean one of the brands of racism
we have now is to say, hey, man, I'm not
a racist. That's that's the past. You know, America is
not a racist country. That's what that problem has been solved.
We've had a black president and they were all swell
one right, and not only you know, people who are
(23:23):
poor or uneducated or something. John Roberts, the head of
the Supreme Court, had said with the straight face, and
he might even be dope enough that he believes it.
He said, oh no, that's the past. We don't have
to we don't need laws protecting, you know, race relations,
because that's is over.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
With, right, and it's and it's not it's not.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
If I can criticize John Robbins for a moment, is
besides that being what I consider actually not smart, it's
also just so revealing of how little self knowledgy has.
John Roberts, I promise, is carrying at least as much
racism with them as I am. Okay, and John Roberts
(24:09):
makes believe even to himself that that's not true.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Right, And it's and and and fear, you know, and
this is all tied into our fears individually and ultimately
becomes a collective. And that's why I say our fears,
you know, it's a collectiveness of of survival. It's a
collectiveness of do I have enough on my plate?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
You know? I want more on my plate.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
There was a a I think I don't know if
it's Arkansas. I don't want to misquote, but I saw
a clip of a news interview with a gentleman who
is I believe he's a pastor and uh, and they
they're forming a town in the United States that's that's
all white. Sure you saw this as well, and and
(24:57):
and and the women you know, need to behave as
way and listen. You know, if that's what you want,
I have no issues with it. But the issue is
history has taught us that if I or my brother
happened to make the wrong turn on the road and
drive into your own white town, that we may not
(25:18):
come out.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You know. History has taught us that.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
History has taught us that if there's a black town
a couple of miles down from you, and as you
may say, you know, I just want the blacks to
just you know, have their own space, and history has
taught us that that's not the case. That there's something
within you, and I call that fear right that prevents
you from saying, I'm glad they're over there and we're
(25:45):
over here. At some point, you're going to get in
the back of your car with your friends and you're
gonna come over and feel like those black folks over there,
Well they got a little too much, you know, their
system is a little too good. Well how come they
got different inventions that we don't have. Well, somebody need
to go over there and do something about it. History
is taught us that.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Do you notice you skipped into a black or form
of English when you went to the black side of town?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, you by yes?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I think what is also what stakes is the
white town that they were forming. They say they thinks
that's going to be legal to do that, and that's controversial.
But what the views of America? Do we want to
be a country in which people are separate? What do
we want to I should fulfill the notion that America
(26:38):
is the place where everyone's equal. If everyone's equal, we
don't have to have the separation.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So let me But it's the fear that makes us
want to yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, And when Gold mentioned fear, she points it back
to her book and showed me the word fear. And
thank you very much for that. And uh, and I'll
let me point that our feel it's collective, so community
comes easily to you on a social level as well
as a personal level. Right, so let me we only
(27:10):
have a minute or so. But I know another important
part of your life is you you have a lot
of uh, you follow the news, you have political opinions,
and do you have in trepidation about America's future? I
mean the notion of having world white sounds that are legal.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well, I mean we're going to go through it.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It's it's we're in it, okay, you know, and and
no matter what, we're going to go through it. I
just look at myself as an artist during this time,
is what can I give to to help shape something
that's going to be constructive for those who have strength
to go through it, for people to have a plan
(27:55):
to go through it, for people to communicate to go
through it, and for people to stay awake.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And so let me read blunt it. What do you
think Donald Trump is afraid of?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm not going to give Donald Trump the space and
time on this show right now.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Man. I think I've been rebuked the I understand you.
I'm built into that for people who can read poetry
that can certainly read social signals. So we'll let that
one be its own, eloquid suret poem. I'm not gonna
give him that. What What about uh the workings the
(28:30):
making of the poems? How does that work for you?
Because you, uh, you write a lot of poems and
you're well it's right, well under pressure.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah I did.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I don't know why, because it's great anxiety.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I don't know if it's the healthiest way to write.
But uh, but but but I do.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So. The makeup of the book itself is is I
took a poem called Be the Poem and dissected it
into six standards. The poem originally was written for Dutchess
Community College, and each section is supported by a story
and additional poetry. A story that's sort of like a memoir,
one could say, your prose, and then I have shorter poems,
(29:12):
some of them a little long ago, to support the
message I want to have for that section of the book.
So we have it broken down into and I'm going
to wrap it up real quick here into possibilities. Then
we have understanding, joy, fear, and gratitude. So I would
just say pick up the book, have some fun. There's
(29:33):
a section that you can do some work for yourself
in there, and I just hope that people just grow
through a few so that you can live with some joy.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's an instructive book. And if you want to be
intrigued by gold statement that the poem about our sisters
death is under the section of joy, don't understand that
one man by the book called be the Poem Living
beyond our fears. Thanks you veryones for being with us
and revealing more.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Thank you Peter, thank you everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Amen,
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer. Those
are the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out at Pete and the Poet Cold.
I'm Peter Leonards and I'm the poet Gold. And today
we're finding out more about poet Gold poal revealing, and
she's revealing more about her new book and her tour
coming up, a new book called Be the Poem, Living Behind,
Beyond Our Hope, our Fears, Fears and uh Gold, Yeah,
(00:34):
I know we last week we did a show on this,
but it seemed to be so revealing that I thought that, oh, sorry,
it would it would be worth doing another show to
go to other parts of your life that I know.
You're not somebody who will hides things. There's more to
your life then it appears at first, Right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, I guess it's a perspective, but yes, I yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well let me say what I really mean, Say what
you really mean. You've had a life of disability, and
you speak very frankly about it. Yes, but when you
speak frankly about it, it covers something. In other words,
you speak about your physical disabilities with such an ordinariness
(01:22):
and even an optimism that it covers up or at
least camouflages the suffering you've done around physical disability and
continue to do. I don't know anybody who thinks of
you as a chronically ill person.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And you are.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Kay.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
It's had I done a poem at the beginning of
the show today, it would be this very short one.
It's it's either the cliff or the distant horizon. Choose
the horizon.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, thank you for two things. One is correction our
oversight of not having a upon me to the beginning
of the show. And thank you for clarifying. So you
are choosing the horizon. You're choosing the future rather than
the aches and pains of the past the present right because.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I'm here, you know, I'm I awake, and the moment
I awake, I take each day one day at a time,
one day at a time, because I don't know what
tomorrow is going to bring, and so so when I awake,
there's a choice do I sort of succumb to the
to the pain that I'm feeling, which is which is
(02:32):
totally acceptable. You know, there's nothing wrong with people who
choose to do that, but I I want to live.
I want to live the life that I've imagined. You
know that that that I want to connect with, that
I want to experience with and uh to experience and
so so I choose present, but I choose the horizon.
I take the day it's it's there's no doubt that
I'm I'm going to be in pain. I'll be honest
(02:53):
with you. The the times that I'm not in pain
is when very similar to right now, when I have
some type of signus infection in my immune system has
something really to fight and I know that I'm getting
better when the inflammation everything comes back because now it's
fighting me.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Okay, so let me go back to the part where
it is nothing wrong with choosing to be in pain
and crow about it. People who complain about their pain
are much less likely to have a lot of friends,
will be popular than you are. So there's something there's
an immediate pay you off to choosing the horizon or
(03:30):
choosing an optimism or even as I'm sort of confronting you,
it's too strong a word, but I'm sort of making
evident you are presenting yourself in a way that's not
completely in mind with what you're experiencing. You're very often
experiencing pain and presenting yourself as if you're just in
(03:54):
one of the happy campus at the party.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I mean, I've been at this a long time. I mean,
you know, it's it's it's my childhood story. And uh
and at some point there was, you know, there was
I don't know if I shared the story with you.
In school, in prep school, there was another young girl
and it was Jonie and Joni. Jonie was always on
the sideline in the gym, so she didn't have she
(04:20):
didn't have the capabilities, the ability to to play some
of the games that we would play during gym, and
and Jonie always stuck with me. I was like, I'm
gonna I'm gonna put this bowl in the basket for you, Joni,
you know, because I always felt that I was a
stone's throwaway from that from that space, because I was
suffering then was not quite diagnosed. But it turned out
(04:42):
that we we had the same type of ailment, except
hers came with a lot more deformity than than mine did,
which prevented her from being able to you know, run
or skip or hop or jump rope and and but
so so I often reflect on Jony and and I
look at I looked at my life as as sort of,
(05:03):
you know, live this, live this experience for Joni, you know,
because there's a lot of different Joonies out there, and
so you go have some phone, but you have some
phone for Joanie too.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So you experienced this very very personal thing of your
own disability in a in a very communal way. There
are other people suffering that you're going to get some
joy for.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, So there's there's some smile in their day,
you know, and some some joy in their day. I
had a student a couple of years ago who said
to me, we were we were just doing a poem
about really one of Rudy Francisco's poems, actually shared with
them in the class, and we were he talks about,
(05:46):
you know, apologies in the in the context of of
sort of like, don't don't feel bad for me. So
you're having a bad day, he says, you're having a
bad day, Well, think about this person who's having.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
A bad day.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So so rightfully, so she raised her hand and she said,
but doesn't that sort of devaluate what you're feeling. And
I said, that's a good point, I said, I said
that point right, I said, no, I said, you can
acknowledge what you're feeling at the same time acknowledging that
your legs may be hurting, which might always do.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But then I look at.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
The person who has no feed and I'm grateful for
the legs that I have and the feet that I
have because I still can use them. You know, in
life may be challenging, and it doesn't take away I
don't feel it takes away from from my pain and
acknowledging that, but there's there's this space where, yeah, we kid,
(06:35):
you're not the only person that's having a bad.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Day, and so you're in solidarity with other people who suffer.
Ye as you're being you know, and I don't mean
to make it sound as if you're dishonest, but as
you present yourself as somebody who's unequivocally in a good
mood and feeling swell.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I'm in a good mood. I actually.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's it's so much
a part of I've learned to cope, you know, it's
so much, it's so much a part of of of
my life. And since, like I said, since I was
ten years old. It's just it's been you know. It's
like brushing your teeth. This is this is what's going
to happen. That's why I tell friends sometimes when they
talk about aging and get I said, listen, honey, I've
(07:23):
been here since ten, so you're catching up with me now.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm more actually a complainer than you are. And you know,
all crow about my aches and pains to you, and
I do it in good faith. I'm really feeling them.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I know you are, and I'm not.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Holding back just because you're worse pain.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And I have those moments, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I have the moments with people even go oh, you know,
and it may be a discovery of of something that's
shifted someplace that shouldn't be shifting and poked an organ somewhere,
you know, and I'm like, oh, okay, I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But you present that in my experience more curiosity, you know,
you said, you know my shoulders are hurting, you know,
as if you're curious about it rather than suffering from it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Right, because I want to know if it's if it's
if it's new, then I need to I need to
discover the depth of what's going on so I can
manage it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That's that's always my thing.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So this is relevant in terms of you revealing yourself
on the air here, it's relevant to the book because, uh,
you know, the book is you be the poem, and
poems can be complicated things, and it can be more
than one thing at a time. Is the nature of poetry.
(08:41):
And one of the things where the disability is sometimes
associated with in our minds, or at least in and
our fears and fears. A major theme with you is death.
And you've had in the last two and a half years,
you've had way more death then standard then it was
(09:03):
statistically expected.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Anomaly.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Absolutely, absolutely, you want to talk about that? From my
observation is death. Your mother was the most profound lorsue
of it. Do you want to talk about your mother
for a moment.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
My mom for me was we talk about God. We
had a guest on what we were talking about God
and Jesus. So so my mom was God to me.
You know, it's as God made men the image of himself,
and that I said, I came through my mother as
a vessel and my parents, and so they represented for
me the closeness that one could feel with God and
(09:41):
and and my mother is a super kind person. I mean,
even when people showed up to celebrate her life, she
was that mother for so many people, and she was
that fun and that kindness for so many people. And
I remember saying from the from the pulpit, so to speak,
(10:01):
that if you want to honor her, then then take
what she gave you and apply it. Don't just take it,
you know, don't don't let her be the person you
just called to dump on. You know, take what she
gave you because she was giving it to you, and
use it and applied in your life, and grow from
(10:22):
it and change the little thing that whatever it was
that you were on the phone with her for two hours,
you know, you know, whatever she was giving you, whatever
you're testifying to appear at this pulpit now, then take
it and change and grow and do that, you know.
And so so so, my sister had just passed. It
(10:43):
hadn't even been a year when my mother passed, and
it hadn't even been a week two weeks between my
mother's death. And she's my younger cousin, but I call
her my niece because we lived together. And my niece
had twenty four died suddenly and then two weeks later
my mom died. And then and then her sister died
(11:05):
three less than three months after that, my first cousin died,
you know, So so all of them were just none
of them were expected.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
My mom fell.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
And unfortunately, she had a severe fall and her heart
came out of the cavity of her chest, which I
didn't even know was possible. But and so two weeks
later she succumbed. Even though we spoke, you know, on
the phone every day, and and and she everyone thought
she was okay, and then until she wasn't, you know,
So that was that, you know, to have all.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That exactly mean was your mother's always a big deal,
but it was a sister as well as your niece
you live with so many years. There's a way in
which that can be debilitating. I mean, so in what
sense I never actually heard me before? Did you ability
(11:58):
to almost manage your pain? Did those habits or skills
uh becoming useful when you're managing a grief?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yes, I definitely, I definitely grieve it from time to time.
I still grieve, you know. It's grief is is a
very interesting thing because it it comes in ebbs and flows,
and but I also recognized one I was in the
midst of writing this book and I needed to take
a big break from the book because I didn't want
the book to necessarily turn into a book about grief,
(12:31):
because it's it's about it's about joy, it's about courage,
and grief is a part of that, you know, And
so this added a different component, so to speak. I
have two poems, one for my niece and and and
one for my sister in the section of joy and
and UH being able to recognize what they brought to
the world for the short life that they have lived
(12:54):
in this world and UH, but definitely coping through the
years of living with a chronic illness. Survival kicked in
that I needed to emotionally survive not only for myself,
but for my UH sisters children who are who are
(13:15):
all adults, but yet who have lost their mother at
a at a younger age. My nephew had just lost
his father about two years ago, and so that kind
of stuff was on my mind. You know that that
that you you want to hold onto your strength for
those that you love and and as well as hold
(13:39):
onto your strength for yourself because you enjoy living.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I enjoy.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I enjoy being happy, you know, but I also recognize
that it's important to go through the grief, acknowledge the grief,
acknowledge the anger, acknowledge I mean, I was pissed off,
you know, talk about that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Thank you for dealing with it yourself. Yes, I actually did,
and I periody noticed sometimes your energy was lower, but
I never uh and we we're together a lot. I
never noticed you uh as being in a bad mood.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, the bad mood. I was just I was just angry.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I was disappointed, you know, just everything, all the confusion
that comes with a sudden death, you know, death, the
death you don't you don't expect to happen, and you
you know, you ask why, and then I'm just like,
well why not? You know. It's it's saying death is
not singular. We all experience it.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And one of the things we experience is is.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
You're listening to finding Out with Pete and the poet Gold,
and I'm Peter and I'm the poet Gold.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And we're into doing an interview with Gold herself for
her revealed points of herself that don't come up necessarily,
don't don't come up on the regular show, but are
important now people perspective that they might find useful when
they buy and read or a new book called be
(15:05):
the poem, Living Beyond Our Fears. And you get in
a lot of trouble with gold if you miss the
title and say living beyond my fears.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And what's really important.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I want people to know if they decide to sorry,
if they decide to look on Amazon for the book,
they have to put in the whole title. So if
you just put be the poem, it's not going to
come up. You have to put in be the poem,
Living Beyond our Fears. I know it's a long title,
but it's the title I was feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
For Okay, and for me, the word poem certainly makes
the difference. But the notion that fears are like other emotions,
they're collective. In other words, my fear is not privileged
over our fears, so it's living beyond our fears. And
(15:56):
you mentioned the difference, and you might just have a
comments on her the different Like, your sister was sick
for a while. Are sure it was less sudden than
your mother's death or your nieces?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, my sister had Doreen had a rare form of
cancer in the small intestine.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It was discovered.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It was just a routine kind of oh, you know,
you're having some bleeding in your small intestine. We think
we know where it is. But no one knew they
were going for a mass. They were just going to
call the risee a vein, you know. And what I
didn't know is that when you have a colonoscopy in America,
they don't look at the small intestines because this particular
type of cancer is so rare, maybe about ten thousand
(16:37):
people get it, if that much, in America, And so
your small intestine has never looked at in that process
when you have a colonoscopy. I think they did the
whole thing, but they don't. And so so this was
just discovered at random. And when they went in to
car theize the the vein, there was a big old
mass and they couldn't even get in there. And so,
(16:58):
and it was already stage four. So they had given
her about five years. I think she had only really four.
She had three quality years maybe, you know, between the
chemo and everything, and it was it was pretty quick,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Oh but it's compared to your niece.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Oh yeah, my niece and my mom. Yeah, my niece.
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Uh, she and I have the same type of chronic illness.
She was diagnosed later, but we were all pretty happy
because the medicines are different now than they were when
I was a child, So that probably would have saved
her from having a number of surgeries and number of
replacements and titanium throughout their body.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
But but one of the other things that you have
embolisms that can happen. I've been very fortunate and she
was not so. So she suddenly had several embolisms that
took her life.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And the message to us is that disability illness is
part of life, and so is even sudden death. Right, Yeah,
And then the book is useful in terms of doing that.
I know your sister. The poem in the book is
called the Last Christmas.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yes, the Last Christmas, And you go through you how
she enjoyed Christmas, and you know, she seems to have
a lot of talents in that direction.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Then you say, she mentioned this could be my last Christmas.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
She did.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And the sort of sudden shift into recognizing the problem,
dealing with it, or not being afraid of it is
startling in the poem.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Right, right, And and that and that was really drawn
from her literally because she said that it was her
last Christmas. She said, she you know, she got everyone gifts,
tons of gifts. You know, I'm like, I'm gonna go
back to New York with all of this, you know,
I'm gonna have to leave some of this down.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Here in Florida.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And and and it was, you know, just beautiful Christmas.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And she was always that way in Christmas.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
She even at her job, she was the person that
that everyone went to her to do the Christmas shopping.
You know, what do you call it when the exchanging
of gifts, gifts the Santa thing that they do Secret Santa.
She was delegated the task to buy everything Secret Santa
and and create all the activities.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
And she loved, she loved doing that.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And so so her last Christmas, she said, you know,
to my response of cis this is just you know
too much? And she said, get it now, because this
may be my last Christmas. She said, you just don't.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Know statement And it was.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And we might remind.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
People that you're tuning in and listening to finding out
with Pete and the Poet Goals and I'm the poet goals.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
And we're joining. The poet calls new book be the
poem Living Beyond Our Fields. And if you're looking for
on Amazon, put the whole title then and you'll be
able to buy that book. And yes, you'll do those
a little big favorite.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
And part of the proceeds from the book also go
to a local nonprofit in the Hudson Valley call it
Real Skills Network.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
As well, Real Skills Network, which you've been active in
for several years. Uh. One of the themes of Real
Skills is race. And uh, you I don't know anybody
who's more bicultural in terms of you're genuinely comfortable in
(20:20):
the black world as well as the white world. And uh,
that biculturalism is uh disarming. It's surprising you want to
talk about issues of race from that perspective that you
actually have experience and talent both with.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I grew up in both worlds, you know, so, and
you know, and I wasn't raised from a sense of
ergo the fears, you know it a sense of otherism
as as a child. Uh, you know, my parents always
exposed me to different cultures, to different people, and I
think part of that was so that there wasn't that
(21:05):
fear even though even though we were living in a
racist world, you know, in a racist country. But there's
also there's also beauty here. That's that's that's one part
of it. That's one part of it. But but you're
also born into a gift of life, and so what
are you going to bring to the table that could
(21:25):
possibly change that or raise awareness or or or facilitate
growth so that people can understand what they may be
afraid of, people can open doors and work through their
different fears that prevent them from from living a joyful life,
because that's what fear does.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But I think very few people are willing to admit
that they're afraid of black people, and white people in
general are afraid of able, oh absolutely, And black people
are courtious about white.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
People absolutely rightfully, So yeah, right, rightfully.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So why people have a reason for it? To white people,
you don't have as much We don't have as much reason.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And I have conversations all my life with white people
about you know, why are you afraid? Let's let's unpack it.
You know, I'm not afraid to have that conversation, and
I'm not right, absolutely absolutely, And that's why that's why
the conversation needs to be done with compassion, you know,
and and not you know, like why are you afraid
(22:28):
of me?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
You know, it's it's really having the having the conversation.
And if you're if you're in someone, if you're having
a conversation with someone, that's not what I call down
completely down the rabbit hole. People don't want to be frightened.
Being frightened is a very uncomfortable feeling and and it
makes you do irrational things, even to yourself, you know,
(22:51):
because the process of hate is more self harming sometimes
to the self than it is to the person that
you're trying to hate.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, just from a point of view telling the truth.
I mean, I mean one of the brands of racism
we have now is to say, hey, man, I'm not
a racist. That's that's the past. You know, America is
not a racist country. That's what that problem has been solved.
We've had a black president and they were all swell
one right, and not only you know, people who are
(23:23):
poor or uneducated or something. John Roberts, the head of
the Supreme Court, had said with the straight face, and
he might even be dope enough that he believes it.
He said, oh no, that's the past. We don't have
to we don't need laws protecting, you know, race relations,
because that's is over.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
With, right, and it's and it's not it's not.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
If I can criticize John Robbins for a moment, is
besides that being what I consider actually not smart, it's
also just so revealing of how little self knowledgy has.
John Roberts, I promise, is carrying at least as much
racism with them as I am. Okay, and John Roberts
(24:09):
makes believe even to himself that that's not true.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Right, And it's and and and fear, you know, and
this is all tied into our fears individually and ultimately
becomes a collective. And that's why I say our fears,
you know, it's a collectiveness of of survival. It's a
collectiveness of do I have enough on my plate?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
You know? I want more on my plate.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
There was a a I think I don't know if
it's Arkansas. I don't want to misquote, but I saw
a clip of a news interview with a gentleman who
is I believe he's a pastor and uh, and they
they're forming a town in the United States that's that's
all white. Sure you saw this as well, and and
(24:57):
and and the women you know, need to behave as
way and listen. You know, if that's what you want,
I have no issues with it. But the issue is
history has taught us that if I or my brother
happened to make the wrong turn on the road and
drive into your own white town, that we may not
(25:18):
come out.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You know. History has taught us that.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
History has taught us that if there's a black town
a couple of miles down from you, and as you
may say, you know, I just want the blacks to
just you know, have their own space, and history has
taught us that that's not the case. That there's something
within you, and I call that fear right that prevents
you from saying, I'm glad they're over there and we're
(25:45):
over here. At some point, you're going to get in
the back of your car with your friends and you're
gonna come over and feel like those black folks over there,
Well they got a little too much, you know, their
system is a little too good. Well how come they
got different inventions that we don't have. Well, somebody need
to go over there and do something about it. History
is taught us that.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Do you notice you skipped into a black or form
of English when you went to the black side of town?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, you by yes?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I think what is also what stakes is the
white town that they were forming. They say they thinks
that's going to be legal to do that, and that's controversial.
But what the views of America? Do we want to
be a country in which people are separate? What do
we want to I should fulfill the notion that America
(26:38):
is the place where everyone's equal. If everyone's equal, we
don't have to have the separation.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So let me But it's the fear that makes us
want to yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, And when Gold mentioned fear, she points it back
to her book and showed me the word fear. And
thank you very much for that. And uh, and I'll
let me point that our feel it's collective, so community
comes easily to you on a social level as well
as a personal level. Right, so let me we only
(27:10):
have a minute or so. But I know another important
part of your life is you you have a lot
of uh, you follow the news, you have political opinions,
and do you have in trepidation about America's future? I
mean the notion of having world white sounds that are legal.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well, I mean we're going to go through it.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It's it's we're in it, okay, you know, and and
no matter what, we're going to go through it. I
just look at myself as an artist during this time,
is what can I give to to help shape something
that's going to be constructive for those who have strength
to go through it, for people to have a plan
(27:55):
to go through it, for people to communicate to go
through it, and for people to stay awake.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And so let me read blunt it. What do you
think Donald Trump is afraid of?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm not going to give Donald Trump the space and
time on this show right now.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Man. I think I've been rebuked the I understand you.
I'm built into that for people who can read poetry
that can certainly read social signals. So we'll let that
one be its own, eloquid suret poem. I'm not gonna
give him that. What What about uh the workings the
(28:30):
making of the poems? How does that work for you?
Because you, uh, you write a lot of poems and
you're well it's right, well under pressure.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah I did.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I don't know why, because it's great anxiety.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I don't know if it's the healthiest way to write.
But uh, but but but I do.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So. The makeup of the book itself is is I
took a poem called Be the Poem and dissected it
into six standards. The poem originally was written for Dutchess
Community College, and each section is supported by a story
and additional poetry. A story that's sort of like a memoir,
one could say, your prose, and then I have shorter poems,
(29:12):
some of them a little long ago, to support the
message I want to have for that section of the book.
So we have it broken down into and I'm going
to wrap it up real quick here into possibilities. Then
we have understanding, joy, fear, and gratitude. So I would
just say pick up the book, have some fun. There's
(29:33):
a section that you can do some work for yourself
in there, and I just hope that people just grow
through a few so that you can live with some joy.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's an instructive book. And if you want to be
intrigued by gold statement that the poem about our sisters
death is under the section of joy, don't understand that
one man by the book called be the Poem Living
beyond our fears. Thanks you veryones for being with us
and revealing more.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Thank you Peter, thank you everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Amen,
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