Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out with Pete and the Poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard and I'm the Poet Gold and we're
on the air this morning with Judy Nicols from the
Raymond Avenue Resistance. And before we get to Judy, we're
going to go right to the Poet Cold for her
weekly poem prayer incantation on Gold. Please get it roll this.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Morning, going to do do we exist? Haven't done this
one in a while, so I'm going to bring it back.
Do we exist to celebrate or malign? To unify or divide?
Where is the in between? Does it lay in the
soil of the earth we traverse or is it found
amidst the share air we breathe? Do we exist to
build up one and less of the other? To maim, hurt,
(00:47):
deceive or choose to protect? Our sisters and brothers? And
who are they? Who were they? Do we exist blinded
by our higher cores or conviction? Or do we open
our hearts to listen, to move with the might of insight,
strengthening our foresight to change the life of those felt
abandoned in the condition of blight. I know it's a
personal journey, one that travels slow, grapple to survive, live
(01:11):
our best lives. Not to be a weed instead of
good seed, not choked by fear or greed. I plead
to the universe, let us grow. Do we exist in
a state of pain? Do we exist in a state
of love? Do we exist in a state of tolerance?
Or in a state of respect and compassion? Simple complex
question whose answer is not attached to all our man
(01:33):
made things, but can be found in the surrender to
the human connection, in the space separating sunrise and sunset,
the dash in between where we exist.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Don't be a weed, man, We got that one. And
going from the point of the weed, I don't mean
a narcolic or here, I mean a bad a bad seed.
That's a lot, because that's just the stripe. So when
(02:05):
you say you know, who are we or what are we?
We all want to sort of have a sense of
all we good people. And yeah, and that's also, as
you point out, a very personal question, it's also a
general societal question over a good country over a good
community and JUDI you a group called Raymond Avenue Resistance.
(02:30):
You want to give us a sense of how that emerged,
because at least from my point of view, it comes
from sort of a community answer to are we any good?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, I think yes, I think the Raymond Avenue Resistance
Group is kind of an informal group of people who
are trying to make sense of what we can be
in this moment to each other and what we can
do in terms of continuing to have a voice and
to work toward, you know, building building beyond what what
(03:07):
a lot of us see as a really terrifying time
that we're living through. So I think the Raymond Avenue
Group is, you know, we're sort of improvising our way,
trying to figure out how to get out there, to
be together, to try to speak our voices and say
something and stay strong.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So it's a political it's a response to the political
climate in America today. Yes, And you know I'm very
much part of it. And you know I you know,
some of the listeners know that I have a very
left wing point of view, when many of our listeners don't,
you know, And you know, for years I was on
the show with Tom Sipos, who has had a morning
(03:51):
show about political life and home was very conservative and
I was the left wing guest on that show. So
many of ours already don't like me. But if you,
but if you want to give us a sense of
what motivated are you and the group to be to
(04:16):
actually be on the street instead of in front of
the television with a odd look on their.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Face, Well, I think, you know, it's been a time.
It's been a time of a lot of people feeling
I think isolated and a little bit lost in terms
of knowing what to do in order to build some
kind of movement, some kind of response. And I think
partly we picked Raymond Avenue because it's been a good
(04:43):
spot for coming out together and having protests. I mean
through the years, we had, uh, well, during the war
in Iraq, we had some great we had some great
protests out there with people coming from the community and
the college and sort of speaking out against that that time,
against that moment. And we've had you know, work practice
(05:09):
protests out on Raymond Avenue. It's a good you know,
it's a good spot because people drive by kind of
in a in a slow way and not it's not
it's not like you have long interactions, but you do
feel like you're engaging with people you might not meet otherwise. So,
but I think it came about after there was a
(05:29):
big protest in Kingston, the hands off protests, and a
lot of people there, and I saw a lot of
friends hadn't seen in a while, and we started saying,
you know, why, why can't we do this over in Poughkeepsie,
And so it kind of came out of that moment.
I think April.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
First springs a couple of thousand people showed to believe.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
In April fifth yeah, uh and go before we go
into the you know worthy agenda about Raymond Avenue resistance,
Judy is a part of almost every listener's life in
a way they don't know, and they would never have
(06:15):
picked up from her talking about Raymond Avenue being a
place where the drivers go sort of slowly but you
can engage with them because Judy uh spearheaded well in
my at least my view of it, single handedly made
Raymond Avenue from like a highway into the beautiful road
that is there.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
With the round I love roundabouts. I love roundabouts.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, I mean, how well what was that, Judy.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I think it was Let's see, I must have it
must have been about fifteen years ago, maybe, yeah, because
I used.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
To live on Raymond Avenue and it was like a highway.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
But Judy is the one who really made that project happen,
even because its politically like torpedo a couple of times,
and then you're able to resurrect it and everybody loves
around about then the trees being so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So I don't think it was me though. I mean,
I think it was the town of Poughkeepsie police who
were willing to give us their accident reports, and that
was compelling. You could just see that the road wasn't working,
it was dangerous road. And then I think it was
just getting people's voices pointing the same direction, and people realized,
you know, school kids walking would be safer, the you know,
(07:37):
the place where people try to go eat dinner could
be safer, and then the college and whole that whole
line down there would be a lot better place to live.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And they're nice. You know, it takes you a minute,
It takes a second out of your wherever you're trying
to get to pause, you know, just just pause and
get there safely. Bee pumps don't work. They're just enough challenge,
they're painful, you know, but the roundabout really says okay, pause, stop,
(08:10):
And in that process you don't realize that that that
something else is going on inside of you too. You know.
Most drivers will you know, look to the left, look
to the right to kind of see like, why is
this here? After they're after they're swearing about. You know,
I hate roundabouts, but I love them.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So it's I mean, and I think everybody likes the
way Reymond is noil compared to what it was in
the past. So many people will disagree with you these
current political positions. Virtually nobody will be mad about her
prior of visions about the way the traffic should be
handled on Raymond Avenue in the Poughkeepsie. So before you
(08:51):
go any further, thank you for that. And uh uh
and from there to the more controversial thoughts. I you know,
lots of people have different reasons or a different emphasis
for being out protesting. Now, you know, do you have
(09:13):
anything specific in mind that irks you, whether you think
is more dangerous than other items of the current administration.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, it's really hard to kind of focus and find
what the thing is that is most most troubling. But
you know, the big ones losing democracy, losing losing process,
due process, beginning to feel as if our civil liberties
are going to be eroding.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I think it's when you do when you think about
organizing together. We have this little group and you think
we may be doing this for a number of years.
You also want to think about, you know, when you
come together, how do you make a message that people
can hold on to and that people can talk to
each other about rather than just being overwhelmed, Because if
(10:06):
you go through like everything we've lost in the first
one hundred days, you just want to go back to bed,
you know. So you've got to sort of find something
to think about. What can we work on as a community.
You know, how are we going to protect our libraries,
how are we going to protect our head start programs?
And you have to think about changing up how you
(10:29):
how you present message as a group. So I mean,
I think that's kind of good for artists, for poets
to think about, you know, how do we get out
there and make a message that's readable and keeps us
all thinking about you know, what is what is it
that we're most concerned about and that we want to protect?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
If you're just tuning in, you're listening to finding out
with Pete and the poet Gold and I'm the poet
Gold and we're here today with Judy Nichols from the
Raymond Avenue Resistance Project. Is that correct? Okay? And then
you also have some artists for soup also, is that
do you have that as well?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
That's an organization I've been working on for about ten years.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Okay, and we want to talk about that as well. Okay,
But but I but I do want to pick up
on your thought about before we did the announcement about
the messaging you know, and and language it is? It
is very uh key because I think part of the
reason why we're here is because of the lack of
(11:27):
uh messaging and and and language use and you know,
and how do you how do you formulate that? But
I also think that finding different people's strength within the
construct of whatever teams that you have so that you
can take ideas further. So you said, what do we
do with the books?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
What do we do with the books?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So do you have someone that you know that has
maybe some library experience or some organizational experience where they
can say, let's gather out the books. This is where
the books are going to be. I know there's another
organization out that has been archiving all of the information
that was on the NIH website or some other websites,
and they took this project on. They saw this coming,
(12:11):
you know, so they were going through certain web pages
and and sort of grapping history so that it's there.
So who do you, you know, just a general question
out there in the world and in all these different silos,
who do you have in your group that could that
could sort of save information, you know, to execute a
certain plan for your community, for your town, you know,
(12:37):
for your county.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And I think what your points too, is your town
and your county politics? You say, well, politics is local,
and now the truth is politics is national. In other words,
every community has the same problem that they're not going
to have medicaid as much.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right right, So, but but then once again, you you're thinking,
you know, local, how do how do you work with
the people that are who are your allies locally politically?
And because because those even who who may be your
allies are up against a wall as well, and not
to consider that. You know, they may be a good person,
they may have certain political beliefs within the construct of
(13:18):
their party, but now they need those tools too, because
because they're going to their leadership, that's pointing them in
a different direction that they they might not want to
go in. And they have to make the hard choice
of well, what do you stand for? You know, are
you are you willing to change careers? You know and
(13:39):
and go out on the limb here? What do you
stand for? This is are you going to play politics?
So you're just going to stick with what's morally correct
when people are getting hurt, snatched off the streets right right?
You know, are you willing to lose the next election?
The people will be behind you.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's okay, I'm not willing to lose the next.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, not the large I'm talking local, I'm talking I'm not.
I'm not speaking nationally. You know, it'speacause if you if
you cannot One of the reasons why we're in this situation,
because it's a large part of the Democratic Party did
not come out and vote, you know, and then and
then a lot of it was purged. You know, whether
it's legal or not legal it was in other words,
and that never made it to the ballot booth. You know,
people legitimately put vote votes and did not make it.
(14:22):
It was thrown away. So so, but if you can't
get people out on a local level, you can't get
them mount nationally.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And uh.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
And the point where you know, goal pointing to who's
on the team is an interesting thing, and I think
that's a place where you know, with your experience with
redesigning Raymond Avenue, of having that implemented getting people to cooperate,
you feel that's one of the things that you do well.
You've had success within the past.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I don't know. I think I like, Uh, I'd like
to think that that you know that thinking back to
your poem, that I'm more interested in, you know, finding
common ground and building building across our different views than
I am in staying angry. Yet I also think either
(15:19):
there there have to be a number of things that
happened at once now, including the whole question you brought
up of joy. You know, how do you how do
you bring joy into this moment of great sort of
chaos and and you know where a lot of us
are frightened for our family members, for our friends who
are maybe undocumented, who are frightened, for our children who
(15:41):
are going to be coming up in a world where
there are fewer controls of of of the environment, uh,
the natural environment, and you know climate climate action is
is not happening. I think, so how do we how
do we build joy in a context of of everybody
being quite thrown and in order to keep coming together
(16:04):
and and and and thinking constructively in the ways that
you were describing of of you know, making tasks that
are doable and working to you know, build alliances, let.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Me let me go back and not. This is not
being hypercritical. It's the opposite. So when the question is
are you good at bringing people together on something, the
answer to that is yes. If anybody happens to ask
you that question. The last and interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
You don't think I got right, And I don't want
to brag, you know, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Time is fleeing and go for it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I don't want to break is not the most common political.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I'm good, I'm a good cook. I'm good at bringing
people to the table.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Okay, that's good, and that's the metaphorically, then that's that's fantastic.
You know. One of the things that that I think
is important for groups to do is we're living out
Project twenty twenty five, right and so, and it's what
a nine hundred page document, you know, depending upon how
many people are in the group, people should be assigned.
(17:14):
I mean, you know, I would like to say a
friend of mine said, there's no shuts. Okay, you're right.
A suggestion when you have these groups that no individual,
unless you're a reader like Peter, is going to sit
probably sit down and read all nine hundred pages. But
if each member can be assigned to a small part
of it, it's important to understand really what you're dealing with,
(17:37):
you know. You know, I think a lot of people
sort of flying blind, not knowing you know, what you're fighting,
you know, and it's like, okay, well what are you fighting? Well,
they they spent the time and the work to let
you know and have and have executed it. In the
process of executing it, you know, they put a lot
of they vested a lot of energy and time and
(17:58):
developing this plan, which which I agree with it. I
respect the work. It's a body of work, and so
we need to know the body of work. So that
you understand what you're doing well.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
If you want the body of work, the twenty twenty
five projects, which you know, the Conservative movement put together,
and President Trump said, I have nothing to do with that.
I don't, you know, he distanced himself from it. But
that's exactly what's being implemented now. And I didn't read
(18:32):
the whole thing, but it's about a one hundred pages.
I got over one hundred pages, and the pattern emerged
from it. I was a familiar one. So no matter
what the topic is, then they have it's well written
so it's easy to read. And the way they have
it set up, you know, veterans affairs, criminal justice, affairs, welfare, health,
(18:54):
and it's the theme is let's have less of all
of it. So it goes back to you know, Ronald
Reagan saying that the problem with the government is too
much of it. You know, if if your government out
of the way, it'll it'll be fine. So the Trump
A gender or the twenty twenty five gender is let's
(19:14):
have less government, you know, and that's clear, and they
make it go. If you're a veteran, let's have what's
veterans benefit? If you're old let's have what's uh.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
But that's not that's not the it's not the whole
piece of it. I mean, part of Project twenty twenty
five clearly comes out of the fear of of of
of white nationalists feeling as if they're being replaced. It's
a it's a real fear. It's a real reality. And
and this comes I mean, it's the underpinning of of
(19:46):
of that, and it's I wouldn't know, I don't you know,
and it's a part of my heart, and I mean
it's sincerely of I don't know what it's like to
live in that type of fear, you know, because because
it's it's it's it's deeply embedded. And to be so
frightened is certainly not a place where you're living in
(20:11):
your joy. And and when you're not in that place
and you're not dealing with the honesty of just being
able to say, our numbers are decreasing, and it frightens us,
you know, it frightens us, and your right gold.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
They don't have that in probably twenty five days. The
underpendings of recommendations let's have less government, the underpinnings which
you're pointing to, and I agree with. But it's interpretive
is let's have a few brown and black people is
also functions, I think, but you have to remind people
(20:48):
if you're.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Just tuning in, you're listening to finding out what the
poet gold and I'm the poet Gold. And we're here
today with Judy Nichols. Who is did you?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Were you the founder of it? Or you were part
of the LEADLeadership of the Raymond Avenue or the leadership
part of the leadership of the Raymond Avenue Resistance.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
And Judie, it's just give people a sense of who
you are in the sense and that you know when
I asked you before you go to something, you said, no,
I'm not good at it, but everybody else is really flying.
If you talk about the project artists for Soup for
a moment, I think that might give people a sense
of your commitments to other human beings.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Well. So in twenty fourteen, I worked with a group
of Nicaraguan women in starting a Basically it's an ongoing
nonprofit organization aimed at increasing food security and we work
with university trained agro ecologists. And I never heard that
(21:48):
word before. Agroc collogists, people who are I mean talking
about the whole agricultural system. So growing food in small
amounts of small bits of land, trying to think about
what you put into the earth, try to try to
keep try to keep it as as organic as possible,
and then also working with water systems, slow drip irrigation systems,
(22:11):
trying to produce a sustainable kind of agriculture that that
people can you know, bring to their communities and have
greater multi you know, more biodiverse meals. So we started
working with with really just a small group and it's
kind of grown to be, uh well, We've got five
(22:31):
regions of Nicaragua we work in and it's uh, you know,
mostly my work now is here and I do the
fundraising for it. And then there are like five well
five different women in Nicaragua who are in these different
areas that are sort of leading community work. And we
have two demonstration gardens that where people come in and
(22:53):
visit and get trained in these methods of growing food.
So that's what I started. I started that in twenty fourteen,
and art is part of it in that sort of
as part of because agriculture is it's hard, it's a
hard life and isolating life. We do art workshops to
bring people together. And so there are a couple of
(23:15):
Nicaraguan artists in the city Leone who come out and
do these workshops. And you know, we have a doll
making cooperative, we work with mural making. There are a
number of people in painting doing painting projects and it's
really just part of the programming, you know, whether you know,
one week we'll be doing programming in pest control, but
(23:38):
the next week will be in premative Easta paintings. So
you know, it's a part of in these places where
we're doing ongoing workshops. It's part of the work that.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It never occouraged me that I was always aware the
farming is a hard job. It was also isolating. It's
very nice, yeah, and art is something that brings them
and soul together.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Do you do you find that that the that the
art relates to the agriculture like is it is there
interpretation of plant life and organic life interpreted into the
art that when they're doing the art.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Well, I think we've deliberately tried to to use you know,
we've we've tried to we have workshops where painting plant
life is the focus or sometimes like one of the
things people work on is carving hikoro, which is a
kind of gored and and so the interest in in
(24:41):
natural shapes and animal forms is central to the It's
a kind of a craft that's gone on for a
long time, but those kinds of designs often make it
into the paintings. So there's there's a way in which
the kind of agricultural life informs the art as well.
So yes, I think I think you'd say it does,
(25:03):
and I think you know, children pick up on that
quickly and then their parents also, But it's definitely I
think the things reinforce each.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Other, and agriculture itself is art.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yes, yeah, you can think of the garden as a
kind of absolutely canvas. Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And the nutrition part, so artists for soup is uh,
the artists for good nutrition? That is that an interpretation?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, I mean I think you can go in go
into a place and have great designs on having you know,
greater biodiversity of diet. But part of it is also
bringing the joy of cooking, and because there are these
sort of set ways of cooking that are sometimes hard
to shift, so sort of convincing convincing groups that actually
(25:56):
do really well to have more greens in a diet
sometimes takes imagination. And so the groups, the women that
we work with are really good at sort of taking
what they learn when they go to Guatemalac's. Guatemalans indigenous
cultures are really good at getting a lot of different
greens into the foods that people eat, and that's real
(26:19):
important for brain development. And so one of the things
we've done is tried to make cooking a central part
of workshops. So even though you know the real focus
is growing the food, we also do a lot of
work with you know, sort of of learning new things
and sharing, you know, just knowledge sharing between groups and traditions.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So yeah, I've found, and it may be you know,
my lack of awareness that you speaking of greens, that
in a Latin American countries they don't use a lot
of greens in their food. And you know, being a
black woman in America, I'm big on greens. You know,
I like dark, green, leafy food, and but I've always
(27:04):
found that that to be scarce. I'm like places like Ayana,
you know, you have Kollloo and you still have the
green family. But but culturally I've I've always found that
there are a lot of greens.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yeah, so you get a bumper chalk, bumper crop of
bok choi, you have to know what to do with it.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And so from bokhoy and colin greens, the one way
from Raymond Avenue Resistance. The connection is UH that the
judy in particular and the people in Raymond Avenue Resistance
are concerned with human stuff. And certainly public life in
America has taken a dramatic change, and some people like
(27:43):
it and some people don't. But but I think, UH
to know that the people on Raymond Avenue or other
groups spread throughout the county are not just out there
screaming in your face and have nothing else going on
in their life. I mean, for you, the answer be
is sort of the red designer of Raymond Avenue, and
(28:05):
thank you again for that. And also being working with
the people and women in the Karagua to improve their
diet and their the quality of their life. That's all
that's at And it's uh, I think, because I think
that people have referred to you, if not personally in
general as a lulative lulat liberal communist. How do you
(28:31):
feel about it? Somebody saying that I.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Think I usually try to give it a good attribution.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Absolutely, you know. I take the translation of that is
that you're someone that cares about people other than yourself.
Thank you, you know, you know, I mean usually, and
I think I always say sometimes that people if we
listen to ourselves speak, we realize sometimes we have no
clue of what we're saying, you know. And that's one
of those points when people throw labels like that upon
(28:58):
someone because someone is hoping someone else they're not really
hearing themselves speak.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Or they're hearing themselves they wanted to see if you're
into thinking something different. I mean President Trump, you know,
refers to people as weren't a liberal, communist, socialist.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I don't count him.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
None of those things are true.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
You don't count no, I don't. I don't count him.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I'm talking about once in your community and you get
someone who thinks they're just on the other side and
they're just spewing, you know, the ideology, maybe because they
lost their way, but if they found their way, they
would sit in their couch or sit at home in
a chair watching a television be like you know that
that was a kind gesture that that person did. That
person gave that person a play of food. You know,
(29:44):
they're not crazy, they're not a lunatic, they're not a communist.
They just gave a person a play to food.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
So among the all the political national political stuff going on,
you want to keep an eye on people's individual humanity.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, and and and and locally we can't. He is
who he is. But but my neighbor I can have
a conversation with regardless if you're Republican, independent Democrat, what
you're doing across the street from my house, what you're
doing right here next door to me, If you're harming people,
(30:21):
you know, then I want to be involved in trying
to transform that.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
And on June thirteenth, this is you have any other
event coming up on Raymond Avenue? We are and uh,
that's what stated. It's a Friday, right Friday thirteenth, Friday
thirteenth at five o'clock, five o'clock, five o'clock a Raymond
in College Avenue. And I'm gonna beat I'll tell you
that to be part of the resistance. As people can tell,
(30:48):
Judy's are much more welcoming and accommodating.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And if you ever come back, I didn't get to
finding out why resistance, but in any event, thank you
for those listening to finding out with Pete the Polko
Old Judy, thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Thanks, appreciate you. Wonderful to talk to you both.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yes,
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out with Pete and the Poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard and I'm the Poet Gold and we're
on the air this morning with Judy Nicols from the
Raymond Avenue Resistance. And before we get to Judy, we're
going to go right to the Poet Cold for her
weekly poem prayer incantation on Gold. Please get it roll this.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Morning, going to do do we exist? Haven't done this
one in a while, so I'm going to bring it back.
Do we exist to celebrate or malign? To unify or divide?
Where is the in between? Does it lay in the
soil of the earth we traverse or is it found
amidst the share air we breathe? Do we exist to
build up one and less of the other? To maim, hurt,
(00:47):
deceive or choose to protect? Our sisters and brothers? And
who are they? Who were they? Do we exist blinded
by our higher cores or conviction? Or do we open
our hearts to listen, to move with the might of insight,
strengthening our foresight to change the life of those felt
abandoned in the condition of blight. I know it's a
personal journey, one that travels slow, grapple to survive, live
(01:11):
our best lives. Not to be a weed instead of
good seed, not choked by fear or greed. I plead
to the universe, let us grow. Do we exist in
a state of pain? Do we exist in a state
of love? Do we exist in a state of tolerance?
Or in a state of respect and compassion? Simple complex
question whose answer is not attached to all our man
(01:33):
made things, but can be found in the surrender to
the human connection, in the space separating sunrise and sunset,
the dash in between where we exist.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Don't be a weed, man, We got that one. And
going from the point of the weed, I don't mean
a narcolic or here, I mean a bad a bad seed.
That's a lot, because that's just the stripe. So when
(02:05):
you say you know, who are we or what are we?
We all want to sort of have a sense of
all we good people. And yeah, and that's also, as
you point out, a very personal question, it's also a
general societal question over a good country over a good
community and JUDI you a group called Raymond Avenue Resistance.
(02:30):
You want to give us a sense of how that emerged,
because at least from my point of view, it comes
from sort of a community answer to are we any good?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, I think yes, I think the Raymond Avenue Resistance
Group is kind of an informal group of people who
are trying to make sense of what we can be
in this moment to each other and what we can
do in terms of continuing to have a voice and
to work toward, you know, building building beyond what what
(03:07):
a lot of us see as a really terrifying time
that we're living through. So I think the Raymond Avenue
Group is, you know, we're sort of improvising our way,
trying to figure out how to get out there, to
be together, to try to speak our voices and say
something and stay strong.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So it's a political it's a response to the political
climate in America today. Yes, And you know I'm very
much part of it. And you know I you know,
some of the listeners know that I have a very
left wing point of view, when many of our listeners don't,
you know, And you know, for years I was on
the show with Tom Sipos, who has had a morning
(03:51):
show about political life and home was very conservative and
I was the left wing guest on that show. So
many of ours already don't like me. But if you,
but if you want to give us a sense of
what motivated are you and the group to be to
(04:16):
actually be on the street instead of in front of
the television with a odd look on their.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Face, Well, I think, you know, it's been a time.
It's been a time of a lot of people feeling
I think isolated and a little bit lost in terms
of knowing what to do in order to build some
kind of movement, some kind of response. And I think
partly we picked Raymond Avenue because it's been a good
(04:43):
spot for coming out together and having protests. I mean
through the years, we had, uh, well, during the war
in Iraq, we had some great we had some great
protests out there with people coming from the community and
the college and sort of speaking out against that that time,
against that moment. And we've had you know, work practice
(05:09):
protests out on Raymond Avenue. It's a good you know,
it's a good spot because people drive by kind of
in a in a slow way and not it's not
it's not like you have long interactions, but you do
feel like you're engaging with people you might not meet otherwise. So,
but I think it came about after there was a
(05:29):
big protest in Kingston, the hands off protests, and a
lot of people there, and I saw a lot of
friends hadn't seen in a while, and we started saying,
you know, why, why can't we do this over in Poughkeepsie,
And so it kind of came out of that moment.
I think April.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
First springs a couple of thousand people showed to believe.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
In April fifth yeah, uh and go before we go
into the you know worthy agenda about Raymond Avenue resistance,
Judy is a part of almost every listener's life in
a way they don't know, and they would never have
(06:15):
picked up from her talking about Raymond Avenue being a
place where the drivers go sort of slowly but you
can engage with them because Judy uh spearheaded well in
my at least my view of it, single handedly made
Raymond Avenue from like a highway into the beautiful road
that is there.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
With the round I love roundabouts. I love roundabouts.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, I mean, how well what was that, Judy.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I think it was Let's see, I must have it
must have been about fifteen years ago, maybe, yeah, because
I used.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
To live on Raymond Avenue and it was like a highway.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
But Judy is the one who really made that project happen,
even because its politically like torpedo a couple of times,
and then you're able to resurrect it and everybody loves
around about then the trees being so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So I don't think it was me though. I mean,
I think it was the town of Poughkeepsie police who
were willing to give us their accident reports, and that
was compelling. You could just see that the road wasn't working,
it was dangerous road. And then I think it was
just getting people's voices pointing the same direction, and people realized,
you know, school kids walking would be safer, the you know,
(07:37):
the place where people try to go eat dinner could
be safer, and then the college and whole that whole
line down there would be a lot better place to live.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And they're nice. You know, it takes you a minute,
It takes a second out of your wherever you're trying
to get to pause, you know, just just pause and
get there safely. Bee pumps don't work. They're just enough challenge,
they're painful, you know, but the roundabout really says okay, pause, stop,
(08:10):
And in that process you don't realize that that that
something else is going on inside of you too. You know.
Most drivers will you know, look to the left, look
to the right to kind of see like, why is
this here? After they're after they're swearing about. You know,
I hate roundabouts, but I love them.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So it's I mean, and I think everybody likes the
way Reymond is noil compared to what it was in
the past. So many people will disagree with you these
current political positions. Virtually nobody will be mad about her
prior of visions about the way the traffic should be
handled on Raymond Avenue in the Poughkeepsie. So before you
(08:51):
go any further, thank you for that. And uh uh
and from there to the more controversial thoughts. I you know,
lots of people have different reasons or a different emphasis
for being out protesting. Now, you know, do you have
(09:13):
anything specific in mind that irks you, whether you think
is more dangerous than other items of the current administration.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, it's really hard to kind of focus and find
what the thing is that is most most troubling. But
you know, the big ones losing democracy, losing losing process,
due process, beginning to feel as if our civil liberties
are going to be eroding.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I think it's when you do when you think about
organizing together. We have this little group and you think
we may be doing this for a number of years.
You also want to think about, you know, when you
come together, how do you make a message that people
can hold on to and that people can talk to
each other about rather than just being overwhelmed, Because if
(10:06):
you go through like everything we've lost in the first
one hundred days, you just want to go back to bed,
you know. So you've got to sort of find something
to think about. What can we work on as a community.
You know, how are we going to protect our libraries,
how are we going to protect our head start programs?
And you have to think about changing up how you
(10:29):
how you present message as a group. So I mean,
I think that's kind of good for artists, for poets
to think about, you know, how do we get out
there and make a message that's readable and keeps us
all thinking about you know, what is what is it
that we're most concerned about and that we want to protect?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
If you're just tuning in, you're listening to finding out
with Pete and the poet Gold and I'm the poet
Gold and we're here today with Judy Nichols from the
Raymond Avenue Resistance Project. Is that correct? Okay? And then
you also have some artists for soup also, is that
do you have that as well?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
That's an organization I've been working on for about ten years.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Okay, and we want to talk about that as well. Okay,
But but I but I do want to pick up
on your thought about before we did the announcement about
the messaging you know, and and language it is? It
is very uh key because I think part of the
reason why we're here is because of the lack of
(11:27):
uh messaging and and and language use and you know,
and how do you how do you formulate that? But
I also think that finding different people's strength within the
construct of whatever teams that you have so that you
can take ideas further. So you said, what do we
do with the books?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
What do we do with the books?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So do you have someone that you know that has
maybe some library experience or some organizational experience where they
can say, let's gather out the books. This is where
the books are going to be. I know there's another
organization out that has been archiving all of the information
that was on the NIH website or some other websites,
and they took this project on. They saw this coming,
(12:11):
you know, so they were going through certain web pages
and and sort of grapping history so that it's there.
So who do you, you know, just a general question
out there in the world and in all these different silos,
who do you have in your group that could that
could sort of save information, you know, to execute a
certain plan for your community, for your town, you know,
(12:37):
for your county.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And I think what your points too, is your town
and your county politics? You say, well, politics is local,
and now the truth is politics is national. In other words,
every community has the same problem that they're not going
to have medicaid as much.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right right, So, but but then once again, you you're thinking,
you know, local, how do how do you work with
the people that are who are your allies locally politically?
And because because those even who who may be your
allies are up against a wall as well, and not
to consider that. You know, they may be a good person,
they may have certain political beliefs within the construct of
(13:18):
their party, but now they need those tools too, because
because they're going to their leadership, that's pointing them in
a different direction that they they might not want to
go in. And they have to make the hard choice
of well, what do you stand for? You know, are
you are you willing to change careers? You know and
(13:39):
and go out on the limb here? What do you
stand for? This is are you going to play politics?
So you're just going to stick with what's morally correct
when people are getting hurt, snatched off the streets right right?
You know, are you willing to lose the next election?
The people will be behind you.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's okay, I'm not willing to lose the next.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, not the large I'm talking local, I'm talking I'm not.
I'm not speaking nationally. You know, it'speacause if you if
you cannot One of the reasons why we're in this situation,
because it's a large part of the Democratic Party did
not come out and vote, you know, and then and
then a lot of it was purged. You know, whether
it's legal or not legal it was in other words,
and that never made it to the ballot booth. You know,
people legitimately put vote votes and did not make it.
(14:22):
It was thrown away. So so, but if you can't
get people out on a local level, you can't get
them mount nationally.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And uh.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
And the point where you know, goal pointing to who's
on the team is an interesting thing, and I think
that's a place where you know, with your experience with
redesigning Raymond Avenue, of having that implemented getting people to cooperate,
you feel that's one of the things that you do well.
You've had success within the past.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I don't know. I think I like, Uh, I'd like
to think that that you know that thinking back to
your poem, that I'm more interested in, you know, finding
common ground and building building across our different views than
I am in staying angry. Yet I also think either
(15:19):
there there have to be a number of things that
happened at once now, including the whole question you brought
up of joy. You know, how do you how do
you bring joy into this moment of great sort of
chaos and and you know where a lot of us
are frightened for our family members, for our friends who
are maybe undocumented, who are frightened, for our children who
(15:41):
are going to be coming up in a world where
there are fewer controls of of of the environment, uh,
the natural environment, and you know climate climate action is
is not happening. I think, so how do we how
do we build joy in a context of of everybody
being quite thrown and in order to keep coming together
(16:04):
and and and and thinking constructively in the ways that
you were describing of of you know, making tasks that
are doable and working to you know, build alliances, let.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Me let me go back and not. This is not
being hypercritical. It's the opposite. So when the question is
are you good at bringing people together on something, the
answer to that is yes. If anybody happens to ask
you that question. The last and interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
You don't think I got right, And I don't want
to brag, you know, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Time is fleeing and go for it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I don't want to break is not the most common political.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I'm good, I'm a good cook. I'm good at bringing
people to the table.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Okay, that's good, and that's the metaphorically, then that's that's fantastic.
You know. One of the things that that I think
is important for groups to do is we're living out
Project twenty twenty five, right and so, and it's what
a nine hundred page document, you know, depending upon how
many people are in the group, people should be assigned.
(17:14):
I mean, you know, I would like to say a
friend of mine said, there's no shuts. Okay, you're right.
A suggestion when you have these groups that no individual,
unless you're a reader like Peter, is going to sit
probably sit down and read all nine hundred pages. But
if each member can be assigned to a small part
of it, it's important to understand really what you're dealing with,
(17:37):
you know. You know, I think a lot of people
sort of flying blind, not knowing you know, what you're fighting,
you know, and it's like, okay, well what are you fighting? Well,
they they spent the time and the work to let
you know and have and have executed it. In the
process of executing it, you know, they put a lot
of they vested a lot of energy and time and
(17:58):
developing this plan, which which I agree with it. I
respect the work. It's a body of work, and so
we need to know the body of work. So that
you understand what you're doing well.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
If you want the body of work, the twenty twenty
five projects, which you know, the Conservative movement put together,
and President Trump said, I have nothing to do with that.
I don't, you know, he distanced himself from it. But
that's exactly what's being implemented now. And I didn't read
(18:32):
the whole thing, but it's about a one hundred pages.
I got over one hundred pages, and the pattern emerged
from it. I was a familiar one. So no matter
what the topic is, then they have it's well written
so it's easy to read. And the way they have
it set up, you know, veterans affairs, criminal justice, affairs, welfare, health,
(18:54):
and it's the theme is let's have less of all
of it. So it goes back to you know, Ronald
Reagan saying that the problem with the government is too
much of it. You know, if if your government out
of the way, it'll it'll be fine. So the Trump
A gender or the twenty twenty five gender is let's
(19:14):
have less government, you know, and that's clear, and they
make it go. If you're a veteran, let's have what's
veterans benefit? If you're old let's have what's uh.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
But that's not that's not the it's not the whole
piece of it. I mean, part of Project twenty twenty
five clearly comes out of the fear of of of
of white nationalists feeling as if they're being replaced. It's
a it's a real fear. It's a real reality. And
and this comes I mean, it's the underpinning of of
(19:46):
of that, and it's I wouldn't know, I don't you know,
and it's a part of my heart, and I mean
it's sincerely of I don't know what it's like to
live in that type of fear, you know, because because
it's it's it's it's deeply embedded. And to be so
frightened is certainly not a place where you're living in
(20:11):
your joy. And and when you're not in that place
and you're not dealing with the honesty of just being
able to say, our numbers are decreasing, and it frightens us,
you know, it frightens us, and your right gold.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
They don't have that in probably twenty five days. The
underpendings of recommendations let's have less government, the underpinnings which
you're pointing to, and I agree with. But it's interpretive
is let's have a few brown and black people is
also functions, I think, but you have to remind people
(20:48):
if you're.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Just tuning in, you're listening to finding out what the
poet gold and I'm the poet Gold. And we're here
today with Judy Nichols. Who is did you?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Were you the founder of it? Or you were part
of the LEADLeadership of the Raymond Avenue or the leadership
part of the leadership of the Raymond Avenue Resistance.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
And Judie, it's just give people a sense of who
you are in the sense and that you know when
I asked you before you go to something, you said, no,
I'm not good at it, but everybody else is really flying.
If you talk about the project artists for Soup for
a moment, I think that might give people a sense
of your commitments to other human beings.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Well. So in twenty fourteen, I worked with a group
of Nicaraguan women in starting a Basically it's an ongoing
nonprofit organization aimed at increasing food security and we work
with university trained agro ecologists. And I never heard that
(21:48):
word before. Agroc collogists, people who are I mean talking
about the whole agricultural system. So growing food in small
amounts of small bits of land, trying to think about
what you put into the earth, try to try to
keep try to keep it as as organic as possible,
and then also working with water systems, slow drip irrigation systems,
(22:11):
trying to produce a sustainable kind of agriculture that that
people can you know, bring to their communities and have
greater multi you know, more biodiverse meals. So we started
working with with really just a small group and it's
kind of grown to be, uh well, We've got five
(22:31):
regions of Nicaragua we work in and it's uh, you know,
mostly my work now is here and I do the
fundraising for it. And then there are like five well
five different women in Nicaragua who are in these different
areas that are sort of leading community work. And we
have two demonstration gardens that where people come in and
(22:53):
visit and get trained in these methods of growing food.
So that's what I started. I started that in twenty fourteen,
and art is part of it in that sort of
as part of because agriculture is it's hard, it's a
hard life and isolating life. We do art workshops to
bring people together. And so there are a couple of
(23:15):
Nicaraguan artists in the city Leone who come out and
do these workshops. And you know, we have a doll
making cooperative, we work with mural making. There are a
number of people in painting doing painting projects and it's
really just part of the programming, you know, whether you know,
one week we'll be doing programming in pest control, but
(23:38):
the next week will be in premative Easta paintings. So
you know, it's a part of in these places where
we're doing ongoing workshops. It's part of the work that.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It never occouraged me that I was always aware the
farming is a hard job. It was also isolating. It's
very nice, yeah, and art is something that brings them
and soul together.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Do you do you find that that the that the
art relates to the agriculture like is it is there
interpretation of plant life and organic life interpreted into the
art that when they're doing the art.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Well, I think we've deliberately tried to to use you know,
we've we've tried to we have workshops where painting plant
life is the focus or sometimes like one of the
things people work on is carving hikoro, which is a
kind of gored and and so the interest in in
(24:41):
natural shapes and animal forms is central to the It's
a kind of a craft that's gone on for a
long time, but those kinds of designs often make it
into the paintings. So there's there's a way in which
the kind of agricultural life informs the art as well.
So yes, I think I think you'd say it does,
(25:03):
and I think you know, children pick up on that
quickly and then their parents also, But it's definitely I
think the things reinforce each.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Other, and agriculture itself is art.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yes, yeah, you can think of the garden as a
kind of absolutely canvas. Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And the nutrition part, so artists for soup is uh,
the artists for good nutrition? That is that an interpretation?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, I mean I think you can go in go
into a place and have great designs on having you know,
greater biodiversity of diet. But part of it is also
bringing the joy of cooking, and because there are these
sort of set ways of cooking that are sometimes hard
to shift, so sort of convincing convincing groups that actually
(25:56):
do really well to have more greens in a diet
sometimes takes imagination. And so the groups, the women that
we work with are really good at sort of taking
what they learn when they go to Guatemalac's. Guatemalans indigenous
cultures are really good at getting a lot of different
greens into the foods that people eat, and that's real
(26:19):
important for brain development. And so one of the things
we've done is tried to make cooking a central part
of workshops. So even though you know the real focus
is growing the food, we also do a lot of
work with you know, sort of of learning new things
and sharing, you know, just knowledge sharing between groups and traditions.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So yeah, I've found, and it may be you know,
my lack of awareness that you speaking of greens, that
in a Latin American countries they don't use a lot
of greens in their food. And you know, being a
black woman in America, I'm big on greens. You know,
I like dark, green, leafy food, and but I've always
(27:04):
found that that to be scarce. I'm like places like Ayana,
you know, you have Kollloo and you still have the
green family. But but culturally I've I've always found that
there are a lot of greens.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yeah, so you get a bumper chalk, bumper crop of
bok choi, you have to know what to do with it.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And so from bokhoy and colin greens, the one way
from Raymond Avenue Resistance. The connection is UH that the
judy in particular and the people in Raymond Avenue Resistance
are concerned with human stuff. And certainly public life in
America has taken a dramatic change, and some people like
(27:43):
it and some people don't. But but I think, UH
to know that the people on Raymond Avenue or other
groups spread throughout the county are not just out there
screaming in your face and have nothing else going on
in their life. I mean, for you, the answer be
is sort of the red designer of Raymond Avenue, and
(28:05):
thank you again for that. And also being working with
the people and women in the Karagua to improve their
diet and their the quality of their life. That's all
that's at And it's uh, I think, because I think
that people have referred to you, if not personally in
general as a lulative lulat liberal communist. How do you
(28:31):
feel about it? Somebody saying that I.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Think I usually try to give it a good attribution.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Absolutely, you know. I take the translation of that is
that you're someone that cares about people other than yourself.
Thank you, you know, you know, I mean usually, and
I think I always say sometimes that people if we
listen to ourselves speak, we realize sometimes we have no
clue of what we're saying, you know. And that's one
of those points when people throw labels like that upon
(28:58):
someone because someone is hoping someone else they're not really
hearing themselves speak.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Or they're hearing themselves they wanted to see if you're
into thinking something different. I mean President Trump, you know,
refers to people as weren't a liberal, communist, socialist.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I don't count him.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
None of those things are true.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
You don't count no, I don't. I don't count him.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I'm talking about once in your community and you get
someone who thinks they're just on the other side and
they're just spewing, you know, the ideology, maybe because they
lost their way, but if they found their way, they
would sit in their couch or sit at home in
a chair watching a television be like you know that
that was a kind gesture that that person did. That
person gave that person a play of food. You know,
(29:44):
they're not crazy, they're not a lunatic, they're not a communist.
They just gave a person a play to food.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
So among the all the political national political stuff going on,
you want to keep an eye on people's individual humanity.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, and and and and locally we can't. He is
who he is. But but my neighbor I can have
a conversation with regardless if you're Republican, independent Democrat, what
you're doing across the street from my house, what you're
doing right here next door to me, If you're harming people,
(30:21):
you know, then I want to be involved in trying
to transform that.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
And on June thirteenth, this is you have any other
event coming up on Raymond Avenue? We are and uh,
that's what stated. It's a Friday, right Friday thirteenth, Friday
thirteenth at five o'clock, five o'clock, five o'clock a Raymond
in College Avenue. And I'm gonna beat I'll tell you
that to be part of the resistance. As people can tell,
(30:48):
Judy's are much more welcoming and accommodating.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And if you ever come back, I didn't get to
finding out why resistance, but in any event, thank you
for those listening to finding out with Pete the Polko
Old Judy, thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Thanks, appreciate you. Wonderful to talk to you both.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yes,
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