Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out Pete and the Poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard and I'm the Poet Gold, and we're
on the air with Calmin McGill from celebrating the African Spirit.
But before he get to Carmen and her poem, we're
going to go right to the poet Gold with her poem. Gol,
please let it.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Roll, Okay, this poem is called to be of service.
We only have one voice. May we use it to
inspire those who are seeking inspiration, To transform those whose
choice is willful ignorance, To guide those in their darkest moments,
To hold those that need to be held, To teach
patients when there seems to be none, To be righteous
(00:50):
with our cause, to lead in an exact manner, to
be fearless with our joy, and to use it all
as a form of resistance.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Beautiful, beautiful, that is marvelous. And that's for the present day.
And I just to start things off. As far as
I'm concerned, I want to do transitions thirteen by Anthony Browder.
And it's more about the past and coming to now.
(01:22):
We knew not we studied, We learned all there was
to know. We taught others, then we forgot what we
had learned, and then forgot that we had forgotten. Now
we are taught by by those who were once taught
(01:42):
by us, knowledge that we already had. So we study,
we learn all there is to know. We teach others.
Will we forget again?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Wow, be saying you know, none of this is rehearsed. Obviously,
we don't have that kind of lives that we have
time to rehearse anything. But both have gold used the
expression willful ignorance exactly and your home which has forgetfulness,
almost deliberate forget forgetfulness absolutely, And that's always our problem
(02:22):
as individuals and as community with dumber than we have
to be, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And even when we experience those things that happen, after
we experience them, we we want to put them in
the recesses of our of our we want to forget.
We forget very quickly. I mean that's evidenced by the
last by the last election. I don't want to be political,
(02:50):
but we have short memories, you know, and that's and
that is that's that's too bad. And we suffer. We
suffer from the lack of remembering what we do know
and when we have those moments of deja vous and
everything we tried to forget them to ignore instead of
(03:13):
paying attention to those instincts.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You were talking earlier before the show about as a
student at Howard University and doing lots of Marsham for.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Lots of protesting. That was in the sixties, and I've
given away my age, but that was in the early sixties. Yes,
we marched against Howard Johnson, the Howard Johnson chain. It
doesn't I don't think it exists anymore, but the Howard
Johnson chain, they had motels and restaurants, and we also
(03:50):
against Woolworths and Kresgi's, which were five and dime, which
do not exist anymore. But they were vibrant in their
activity at that time and they did not want to
sell to people of color, They did not hire people
of color. And we also marched. When Martin Luther King
(04:14):
came to Washington, d C. We would march with him,
but we were a myriad among the thousands. But it
was just it was wonderful and it was exhilarating to
be able to be of people of like mind and
like purpose, right, exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Very in between. Actually, sixty eight to now, we have
forgotten a lot. And it's not as if people stopped suffering,
But I think one of the things we've forgotten is
that it can be different, right, And I think.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think the closest thing to a movement we actually
have had in our time was the Black Lives Matter movement.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes, yes, that's the right, that's it now and hopefully
it can sustain itself through the UH over the next
four to five years. That it's its significance did not
die with George George Floyd's demise, and hopefully, UH that
(05:24):
will still be burned in our in our memories and
not just ours here in the United States, but around
the world. That was that was the most magnificent effort.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Absolutely in a way that doctor King expanded his message,
you know, with the Poor People's Campaign. You know, it
started to go beyond just African Americans, but the recognition
that that there was an economic you know, fight taking place,
and and he was really galvanizing community exactly before he
(06:02):
was murdered, right, and that's why he was murdered exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We all know that poor white people have a lot
more in common with poor black people than they do rich.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
White people, but they don't understand that, right.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I mean there has been uh what and the ones
who wanted with the rich people and who are predominantly white.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
And historically that's been strategic to keep you know, the separation,
and it works absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And you know, you know, I want to say parenthetically
when you say you don't want to be too political
on the show, but you know, with us celebrating Black
History Month month, you can't be an adult person uh
and not be political. You certainly can't be in an
adult black person uh and not be political because every
(06:52):
day is we still have oppression in America. And you know,
it's easy for uh, somebody like me who's white to
not remember that, but I think it's very difficult for
black people not to remember that, right.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think the crime is that it is not included
in the regular American curriculum. Black folks are are are
not a part, just not an ingredient in the normal everything. Now,
the publishers of the textbooks have a responsibility as far
(07:32):
as that concern because they use the Texas model, uh
you know for that. But so and Texas is excellent
at revisiting history, revising and and so, the and the publishers.
(07:53):
That's what they use as as their model. So you
can look at any textbook any school in Dutchess County,
and you will not find the ingredients of not just
African Americans, but Latina, the LATINX community, Asians, the Asians
who came over here and built the railroad system, and
(08:16):
those things are not included in the average American curriculum.
And I am just glad that my parents were bright enough.
One never graduated from high school, the other one just
graduated from high school. Every black publication that existed came
(08:36):
into our household at that time. They did not depend
on the American school system to educate us.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Like my mom. Well that thought one second. If you're
just tuning in, you're listening to finding out a Pete
and the poet Gold, and I'm the poet Gold, and
we're here having a conversation with Carmen mcguil, the coach
here of celebrating the African Spirit.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And celebrating the African spirit is an organization years towards
remembering right. In other words, the opposite of the system
you're saying that tries to not try successfully, I forgets
the contribution of African American people.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well that is That's the thing. The way we came
into existence is that I was the chair of the
Black History Project Committee and Lorraine Roberts was the chair
of that, and when she died, I took over as
the chair of that and we did educational things, you know,
lectures and bus trips and so forth. Then a Vasa
(09:44):
professor was a friend of one of our members, and
she brought a paper. She gave a paper to him
and said, well, you know, what do you think about this?
Can the Black History Project Committee use this? The paper
was about the Livingston slaves in Dutchess County and this
(10:05):
was a white woman from Wyoming who did this paper.
And the last paragraph said the people of Poughkeepsie should
do something to find out who these people were. That's
how it came to us at the Black History Project Committee,
and we looked at each other and we said, oh
my god, why not we should be Yes, this is
(10:27):
this is what This is an action kind of a thing,
you know, this is what we should be doing. Katie Height, yes, yes,
she was a professor, yes, and so that's when I
met her. And so that was in twenty nineteen. We said,
why not, you know, let's let's start getting people together,
(10:48):
find it out, to get a name of the organization.
There was enough of a core of us to be
able to do that, and so and we we did
not want although there was so much suffering and evil
as far as slavery was concerned enslaved people that they
went through, but we wanted to do their contributions and
(11:14):
what they did to overcome that. And that's why we
named it celebrating the African Spirit. And our mission is
to uncover the contributions of enslaved Africans in Poughkeepsie. And
somebody they said, well, why not the rest of Dutchess. Well,
there's so much, there's such a volume, and so few
people right now to do the research to do the work,
(11:37):
that we had to just limit it to Poughkeepsie. And
those people are the people who laid the foundation for
the economy all up and down the Eastern Seaboard and
the economy of Poughkeepsie. But you only find the names
of the slave owners, the rich people who did not
do the work. Livingston family owned more enslaved people than
(12:02):
any other people in Dutchess County, all up around Claremont, everywhere.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And you know, one of the points of celebrating the
African spirit is to remind us that or from a
lot of people teach for the first time, there's a
lot of slavery that happened in Pipsie.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Right, Well, that's the whole thing. Most people don't know
that there was slavery, that there were enslaved people, you know,
in Poughkeepsie. So if you don't have that connection with
your past, how can you succeed in your present and
your future. You have to have some you have to
have some ground. You have to know where you came
from in order to know where you're going. And that
(12:43):
is the reason why we find it necessary to reach
back and try.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And it's so going to what you're saying. You have
to know your background in order to know your history,
in order to know where you're going to happen. My mother,
you was talking earlier about the paper and the article
that your family would be My mom would do the
same thing. You know, we had we had we had representation,
especially considering I was in a predominantly white environment in
(13:10):
prep school, so we always had representation history, you know.
Third grade, I was studying African history at a community
center after school when I wanted to be watching television,
but you know, but it was after school, so straight
into the community center and I had African studies exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I grew up in Binghamton, New York, and at that
particular time, Binghamton, UH had a very low black population,
and I was one of three black students who graduated
out of two hundred and sixty three at Binghamton North
High School. So it was the same, that same, that
(13:50):
same concept, and you learn, uh, you learn how to
use your skills very early, yes, because it's a matter
of surviv and and it's a matter of survival not
but demanding respect, you know. And so we had to
work our mojo and we did it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And it was never it was never you know, taught
from a perspective of hate. You know, it was important
for you to understand your history. Is important for you
to understand your story, your lineage, so that you have
your well rounded in spaces and understand who you are,
what your influences are. Exactly, and I'll be honest with you.
(14:32):
You know, on some occasions it was very important for
me to have that base of knowledge, you know, and
when someone's telling me, know, the cott gin is not
invented by a black man, and I'm going, oh, right, right.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I beg the difference, Thomas Edison, I mean, come on
the filament and.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Right right right.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
So many both of you, uh, bicultural in the sense
that you're very comfortable in the black world and very
comfortable in the white world. And I think that that's rare, right,
you know, I mean that myself.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, I don't think it's I don't think it's that
rare because it's it is a matter of survival and
we are quote, they never forget to remind us that
we are the minority, you know, in this country. So
in most situations. Uh. I had a conversation with a
white woman the other day who was that she found
(15:28):
herself in a situation where she was in the minority,
and so she understood the feeling because whenever I go
into a thing that's mostly white situation, I'm always on guard. Yeah,
I mean, I just feel that I have to. And
(15:49):
sometimes I wonder if that being on guard that sometimes
I invite things and but but I'm ready for it,
you know, I'm ready for regardless. There are a couple
of times that I have because I thought that it
was familiar, and I thought that it was a positive
kind of a thing, and uh, and then I found
(16:11):
out there's always somebody in there, you know, that makes
it difficult.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I want to address that. But I want to say
once again to our audience, if you're just tuning in,
you're listening to finding out a Pete and the poet Gold,
and I'm the poet Gold and we're here with Carmen
Miguel the coach here celebrating the African spirit. Now, now
my experience has been the opposite of that. You know, uh, angle,
don't bother me. You know, I walk into this until
(16:37):
until you until you get that that individual where where
you can tell your presence is so bothering that they're projecting.
And then and then I go, oh, okay, I know
what this is. You're trying to figure out why this
why this black woman is in the room with all
of these white people, and and and then it then
(16:58):
I'm heightened to it. Right when I initially come into
the room, I'm just in.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
The room and I understand exactly what I understand exactly
what you're saying. And that's when I when I come
into the room, right, my presence is always very visible,
and but it's always one where I have to stay
on guard because there are many times that I wasn't
on guard and by the time that I got the message,
(17:28):
you know, it was too late, and I was so
pissed off at myself for not being able to rise
to that occasion.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right, gotcha, got you know, I hear you, you know,
and that I can relate to that.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's like, you know, and actually.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
You were ready for when I said, both of you
will bi cultural. And when I go into a room
that's predominantly black, I'm certainly aware of it, and I'm
not practiced that because uh, you know, uh does happen. Yes,
I live in a predominantly white world, in almost an
excruciably white world, and so I don't have the practice
(18:09):
of being in a in a room that I consider black.
So I'm on God in the sense that I know
my presence is noticed and I am and I'm not
comfortable with that, right, right, I think they are very
there are almost no white people that I just will
let me pray it. I know very few to no
(18:31):
white person who's comfortable in a white in a black
room through a gold is comfortable when she goes to
a white a white environment, right, And that's a huge thing.
And I have you know, through my life, I've had
more h dealing within fun and stuff with black people
(18:54):
the most white people my age. But still I'm not neutral.
So it's and we're so we're still as the point
where even in individual lives, we have to deal with
racial attitudes we ro own as well as the racial
attitudes of other people. It's rough, and having people who
(19:15):
are comfortable already to be in an integrated situation is
a huge community contribution.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And I'm going to address it, Okay, I was going to, Yeah,
when when it comes up in the space, you know,
I don't run from it. You know, I'm gonna I'm
going to address it, and we're going to have a
real quick conversation about it, depending upon the type of
space that we're in. But I'm going to invite you
to a conversation with me on why is my present
(19:47):
making you uncomfortable?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Right? Well, you have a much more uh you're much
more tolerable. I don't mean I don't mean tolerable. You
have your your patient and you are able to Uh.
I'm a very emotional person, up and down, up and down,
up and down, and you you're more more even tempered,
(20:15):
okay than I am. I get very excited some times,
to my detriment, and so I have to remember to
pull back and not fall into the trap. Not fall
into the trap.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I think that's you know, that is so important.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And what a great perspective of that is my observations
over the years. And I've said it before, so it's
nothing like a secret about it. And gold has well
almost like a disability that she's not able to be disrespectful,
which allows her to be very forthright and honest. So
(20:52):
when you say you, if racism comes up, you confront,
you deal with it, and you deal with it in
a graceful way, and.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And she can.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It's almost impossible for somebody to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And because she of the ilk, she always is clear headed,
you know, I can always think clearly when you get
like I'm passionate about some things, and and then then
almost to the point of can't not having the ability
to think, you know, and to be able to articulate
(21:24):
things the way that I would like to. And and yeah,
you gotta.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You gotta, you gotta be with me at home when
I have the moment. And that's where you have it.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
That's where you have your moments exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Exactly, but but where it's such a fundamental level in
terms of race relations in America that I mean, just
the fact that you and Katie height of friends is
not that people notice that, right, Like you know, for
a white woman and a black woman friends in a
(22:01):
conspicuous public way is different and good, right, you know,
gold and I go to things, and just the fact
that we're they are black and I'm white is not
everybody notices that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
But Peter, why all of this that we pay attention
to twenty four to seven is based on a social
construct that is absolutely absurd, absolutely absurd, And we have
to live our lives by this twenty four to seven.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, and this is what the goals phrase willful ignorance
when you're a poem about forgetting, I mean so well,
and you know, we have human beings who walk around
like regular adults saying racism is over in America. I mean,
how I mean, like, that's not wilful, you know, that's
wilful stupidity. You know, that's just not being aware of
(22:57):
their own feelings even never mind other people. But why.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It's unpacking.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And we have to be constantly aware of something that
really doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yes, yeah, your racial differences are completely made up. Yeah,
that's a real.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Item, and that's most unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And it gives us the hope that we can unmake
it and make something else. But you know, the history
of race in America is a rough one, and you
have some like the sixteen nineteen projects, which is you know,
when they talk about it in the radio, you think
it's a big scary bunch of lives. It's a very mild.
(23:42):
It's like just a regular history book is going to
give black people fair.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Shake, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And the antithesis of that is Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Right exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking. And how
many of us have read that have read that document
because they have had the last four years to prepare.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
For day one, and they were ready, right, and they've
been working on Projects twenty twenty five, you know, prior
to the Heritage Foundation for many years absolutely many years
and they and they found the person to be their
show piece. Absolutely well.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Politically, the thing's nine hundred pages, the products twenty five
and President Trump, when he was running for Rolfs said, oh,
I have nothing to deal with that. I read about
one hundred pages of it. And the one hundred pages
of the same is indicative of what the project's about.
It's always government's bad. We're going to cut government. So
we're going to called veterans benefits. We're gonna put veterans
(24:43):
for old people, sick people gave people we're cutting and
that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
But veterans, how can, I mean, how can you do
that to those people that you sent, that you asked,
and you sent young people that you have to give
their lives to fight for you, old folks setting policies
and setting policies and everything to their detriment. How can
and then when they when they leave, when they get
(25:09):
when they get out, or when they get shot up,
they're disabled, or whatever the case may be, then you
don't want to you don't want to give them anything.
You don't give them anything in return.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Veterans too, And that's the point.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, it's time for us to go.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Hunh.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
It is such a great conversation. It goes by so quickly.
I'll save the thought when you come back. Okay, but
thank you to our listeners for listening to finding Out
with Pete and the Poe with gold Karmen. It's always
wonderful having you here.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Thank you, I enjoy you.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
The African
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Family Partnership
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out Pete and the Poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard and I'm the Poet Gold, and we're
on the air with Calmin McGill from celebrating the African Spirit.
But before he get to Carmen and her poem, we're
going to go right to the poet Gold with her poem. Gol,
please let it.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Roll, Okay, this poem is called to be of service.
We only have one voice. May we use it to
inspire those who are seeking inspiration, To transform those whose
choice is willful ignorance, To guide those in their darkest moments,
To hold those that need to be held, To teach
patients when there seems to be none, To be righteous
(00:50):
with our cause, to lead in an exact manner, to
be fearless with our joy, and to use it all
as a form of resistance.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Beautiful, beautiful, that is marvelous. And that's for the present day.
And I just to start things off. As far as
I'm concerned, I want to do transitions thirteen by Anthony Browder.
And it's more about the past and coming to now.
(01:22):
We knew not we studied, We learned all there was
to know. We taught others, then we forgot what we
had learned, and then forgot that we had forgotten. Now
we are taught by by those who were once taught
(01:42):
by us, knowledge that we already had. So we study,
we learn all there is to know. We teach others.
Will we forget again?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Wow, be saying you know, none of this is rehearsed. Obviously,
we don't have that kind of lives that we have
time to rehearse anything. But both have gold used the
expression willful ignorance exactly and your home which has forgetfulness,
almost deliberate forget forgetfulness absolutely, And that's always our problem
(02:22):
as individuals and as community with dumber than we have
to be, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And even when we experience those things that happen, after
we experience them, we we want to put them in
the recesses of our of our we want to forget.
We forget very quickly. I mean that's evidenced by the
last by the last election. I don't want to be political,
(02:50):
but we have short memories, you know, and that's and
that is that's that's too bad. And we suffer. We
suffer from the lack of remembering what we do know
and when we have those moments of deja vous and
everything we tried to forget them to ignore instead of
(03:13):
paying attention to those instincts.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You were talking earlier before the show about as a
student at Howard University and doing lots of Marsham for.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Lots of protesting. That was in the sixties, and I've
given away my age, but that was in the early sixties. Yes,
we marched against Howard Johnson, the Howard Johnson chain. It
doesn't I don't think it exists anymore, but the Howard
Johnson chain, they had motels and restaurants, and we also
(03:50):
against Woolworths and Kresgi's, which were five and dime, which
do not exist anymore. But they were vibrant in their
activity at that time and they did not want to
sell to people of color, They did not hire people
of color. And we also marched. When Martin Luther King
(04:14):
came to Washington, d C. We would march with him,
but we were a myriad among the thousands. But it
was just it was wonderful and it was exhilarating to
be able to be of people of like mind and
like purpose, right, exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Very in between. Actually, sixty eight to now, we have
forgotten a lot. And it's not as if people stopped suffering,
But I think one of the things we've forgotten is
that it can be different, right, And I think.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think the closest thing to a movement we actually
have had in our time was the Black Lives Matter movement.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes, yes, that's the right, that's it now and hopefully
it can sustain itself through the UH over the next
four to five years. That it's its significance did not
die with George George Floyd's demise, and hopefully, UH that
(05:24):
will still be burned in our in our memories and
not just ours here in the United States, but around
the world. That was that was the most magnificent effort.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Absolutely in a way that doctor King expanded his message,
you know, with the Poor People's Campaign. You know, it
started to go beyond just African Americans, but the recognition
that that there was an economic you know, fight taking place,
and and he was really galvanizing community exactly before he
(06:02):
was murdered, right, and that's why he was murdered exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We all know that poor white people have a lot
more in common with poor black people than they do rich.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
White people, but they don't understand that, right.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I mean there has been uh what and the ones
who wanted with the rich people and who are predominantly white.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
And historically that's been strategic to keep you know, the separation,
and it works absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And you know, you know, I want to say parenthetically
when you say you don't want to be too political
on the show, but you know, with us celebrating Black
History Month month, you can't be an adult person uh
and not be political. You certainly can't be in an
adult black person uh and not be political because every
(06:52):
day is we still have oppression in America. And you know,
it's easy for uh, somebody like me who's white to
not remember that, but I think it's very difficult for
black people not to remember that, right.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think the crime is that it is not included
in the regular American curriculum. Black folks are are are
not a part, just not an ingredient in the normal everything. Now,
the publishers of the textbooks have a responsibility as far
(07:32):
as that concern because they use the Texas model, uh
you know for that. But so and Texas is excellent
at revisiting history, revising and and so, the and the publishers.
(07:53):
That's what they use as as their model. So you
can look at any textbook any school in Dutchess County,
and you will not find the ingredients of not just
African Americans, but Latina, the LATINX community, Asians, the Asians
who came over here and built the railroad system, and
(08:16):
those things are not included in the average American curriculum.
And I am just glad that my parents were bright enough.
One never graduated from high school, the other one just
graduated from high school. Every black publication that existed came
(08:36):
into our household at that time. They did not depend
on the American school system to educate us.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Like my mom. Well that thought one second. If you're
just tuning in, you're listening to finding out a Pete
and the poet Gold, and I'm the poet Gold, and
we're here having a conversation with Carmen mcguil, the coach
here of celebrating the African Spirit.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And celebrating the African spirit is an organization years towards
remembering right. In other words, the opposite of the system
you're saying that tries to not try successfully, I forgets
the contribution of African American people.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well that is That's the thing. The way we came
into existence is that I was the chair of the
Black History Project Committee and Lorraine Roberts was the chair
of that, and when she died, I took over as
the chair of that and we did educational things, you know,
lectures and bus trips and so forth. Then a Vasa
(09:44):
professor was a friend of one of our members, and
she brought a paper. She gave a paper to him
and said, well, you know, what do you think about this?
Can the Black History Project Committee use this? The paper
was about the Livingston slaves in Dutchess County and this
(10:05):
was a white woman from Wyoming who did this paper.
And the last paragraph said the people of Poughkeepsie should
do something to find out who these people were. That's
how it came to us at the Black History Project Committee,
and we looked at each other and we said, oh
my god, why not we should be Yes, this is
(10:27):
this is what This is an action kind of a thing,
you know, this is what we should be doing. Katie Height, yes, yes,
she was a professor, yes, and so that's when I
met her. And so that was in twenty nineteen. We said,
why not, you know, let's let's start getting people together,
(10:48):
find it out, to get a name of the organization.
There was enough of a core of us to be
able to do that, and so and we we did
not want although there was so much suffering and evil
as far as slavery was concerned enslaved people that they
went through, but we wanted to do their contributions and
(11:14):
what they did to overcome that. And that's why we
named it celebrating the African Spirit. And our mission is
to uncover the contributions of enslaved Africans in Poughkeepsie. And
somebody they said, well, why not the rest of Dutchess. Well,
there's so much, there's such a volume, and so few
people right now to do the research to do the work,
(11:37):
that we had to just limit it to Poughkeepsie. And
those people are the people who laid the foundation for
the economy all up and down the Eastern Seaboard and
the economy of Poughkeepsie. But you only find the names
of the slave owners, the rich people who did not
do the work. Livingston family owned more enslaved people than
(12:02):
any other people in Dutchess County, all up around Claremont, everywhere.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And you know, one of the points of celebrating the
African spirit is to remind us that or from a
lot of people teach for the first time, there's a
lot of slavery that happened in Pipsie.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Right, Well, that's the whole thing. Most people don't know
that there was slavery, that there were enslaved people, you know,
in Poughkeepsie. So if you don't have that connection with
your past, how can you succeed in your present and
your future. You have to have some you have to
have some ground. You have to know where you came
from in order to know where you're going. And that
(12:43):
is the reason why we find it necessary to reach
back and try.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And it's so going to what you're saying. You have
to know your background in order to know your history,
in order to know where you're going to happen. My mother,
you was talking earlier about the paper and the article
that your family would be My mom would do the
same thing. You know, we had we had we had representation,
especially considering I was in a predominantly white environment in
(13:10):
prep school, so we always had representation history, you know.
Third grade, I was studying African history at a community
center after school when I wanted to be watching television,
but you know, but it was after school, so straight
into the community center and I had African studies exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I grew up in Binghamton, New York, and at that
particular time, Binghamton, UH had a very low black population,
and I was one of three black students who graduated
out of two hundred and sixty three at Binghamton North
High School. So it was the same, that same, that
(13:50):
same concept, and you learn, uh, you learn how to
use your skills very early, yes, because it's a matter
of surviv and and it's a matter of survival not
but demanding respect, you know. And so we had to
work our mojo and we did it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And it was never it was never you know, taught
from a perspective of hate. You know, it was important
for you to understand your history. Is important for you
to understand your story, your lineage, so that you have
your well rounded in spaces and understand who you are,
what your influences are. Exactly, and I'll be honest with you.
(14:32):
You know, on some occasions it was very important for
me to have that base of knowledge, you know, and
when someone's telling me, know, the cott gin is not
invented by a black man, and I'm going, oh, right, right.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I beg the difference, Thomas Edison, I mean, come on
the filament and.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Right right right.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
So many both of you, uh, bicultural in the sense
that you're very comfortable in the black world and very
comfortable in the white world. And I think that that's rare, right,
you know, I mean that myself.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, I don't think it's I don't think it's that
rare because it's it is a matter of survival and
we are quote, they never forget to remind us that
we are the minority, you know, in this country. So
in most situations. Uh. I had a conversation with a
white woman the other day who was that she found
(15:28):
herself in a situation where she was in the minority,
and so she understood the feeling because whenever I go
into a thing that's mostly white situation, I'm always on guard. Yeah,
I mean, I just feel that I have to. And
(15:49):
sometimes I wonder if that being on guard that sometimes
I invite things and but but I'm ready for it,
you know, I'm ready for regardless. There are a couple
of times that I have because I thought that it
was familiar, and I thought that it was a positive
kind of a thing, and uh, and then I found
(16:11):
out there's always somebody in there, you know, that makes
it difficult.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I want to address that. But I want to say
once again to our audience, if you're just tuning in,
you're listening to finding out a Pete and the poet Gold,
and I'm the poet Gold and we're here with Carmen
Miguel the coach here celebrating the African spirit. Now, now
my experience has been the opposite of that. You know, uh, angle,
don't bother me. You know, I walk into this until
(16:37):
until you until you get that that individual where where
you can tell your presence is so bothering that they're projecting.
And then and then I go, oh, okay, I know
what this is. You're trying to figure out why this
why this black woman is in the room with all
of these white people, and and and then it then
(16:58):
I'm heightened to it. Right when I initially come into
the room, I'm just in.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
The room and I understand exactly what I understand exactly
what you're saying. And that's when I when I come
into the room, right, my presence is always very visible,
and but it's always one where I have to stay
on guard because there are many times that I wasn't
on guard and by the time that I got the message,
(17:28):
you know, it was too late, and I was so
pissed off at myself for not being able to rise
to that occasion.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right, gotcha, got you know, I hear you, you know,
and that I can relate to that.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's like, you know, and actually.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
You were ready for when I said, both of you
will bi cultural. And when I go into a room
that's predominantly black, I'm certainly aware of it, and I'm
not practiced that because uh, you know, uh does happen. Yes,
I live in a predominantly white world, in almost an
excruciably white world, and so I don't have the practice
(18:09):
of being in a in a room that I consider black.
So I'm on God in the sense that I know
my presence is noticed and I am and I'm not
comfortable with that, right, right, I think they are very
there are almost no white people that I just will
let me pray it. I know very few to no
(18:31):
white person who's comfortable in a white in a black
room through a gold is comfortable when she goes to
a white a white environment, right, And that's a huge thing.
And I have you know, through my life, I've had
more h dealing within fun and stuff with black people
(18:54):
the most white people my age. But still I'm not neutral.
So it's and we're so we're still as the point
where even in individual lives, we have to deal with
racial attitudes we ro own as well as the racial
attitudes of other people. It's rough, and having people who
(19:15):
are comfortable already to be in an integrated situation is
a huge community contribution.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And I'm going to address it, Okay, I was going to, Yeah,
when when it comes up in the space, you know,
I don't run from it. You know, I'm gonna I'm
going to address it, and we're going to have a
real quick conversation about it, depending upon the type of
space that we're in. But I'm going to invite you
to a conversation with me on why is my present
(19:47):
making you uncomfortable?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Right? Well, you have a much more uh you're much
more tolerable. I don't mean I don't mean tolerable. You
have your your patient and you are able to Uh.
I'm a very emotional person, up and down, up and down,
up and down, and you you're more more even tempered,
(20:15):
okay than I am. I get very excited some times,
to my detriment, and so I have to remember to
pull back and not fall into the trap. Not fall
into the trap.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I think that's you know, that is so important.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And what a great perspective of that is my observations
over the years. And I've said it before, so it's
nothing like a secret about it. And gold has well
almost like a disability that she's not able to be disrespectful,
which allows her to be very forthright and honest. So
(20:52):
when you say you, if racism comes up, you confront,
you deal with it, and you deal with it in
a graceful way, and.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And she can.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It's almost impossible for somebody to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And because she of the ilk, she always is clear headed,
you know, I can always think clearly when you get
like I'm passionate about some things, and and then then
almost to the point of can't not having the ability
to think, you know, and to be able to articulate
(21:24):
things the way that I would like to. And and yeah,
you gotta.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You gotta, you gotta be with me at home when
I have the moment. And that's where you have it.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
That's where you have your moments exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Exactly, but but where it's such a fundamental level in
terms of race relations in America that I mean, just
the fact that you and Katie height of friends is
not that people notice that, right, Like you know, for
a white woman and a black woman friends in a
(22:01):
conspicuous public way is different and good, right, you know,
gold and I go to things, and just the fact
that we're they are black and I'm white is not
everybody notices that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
But Peter, why all of this that we pay attention
to twenty four to seven is based on a social
construct that is absolutely absurd, absolutely absurd, And we have
to live our lives by this twenty four to seven.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, and this is what the goals phrase willful ignorance
when you're a poem about forgetting, I mean so well,
and you know, we have human beings who walk around
like regular adults saying racism is over in America. I mean,
how I mean, like, that's not wilful, you know, that's
wilful stupidity. You know, that's just not being aware of
(22:57):
their own feelings even never mind other people. But why.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It's unpacking.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And we have to be constantly aware of something that
really doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yes, yeah, your racial differences are completely made up. Yeah,
that's a real.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Item, and that's most unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And it gives us the hope that we can unmake
it and make something else. But you know, the history
of race in America is a rough one, and you
have some like the sixteen nineteen projects, which is you know,
when they talk about it in the radio, you think
it's a big scary bunch of lives. It's a very mild.
(23:42):
It's like just a regular history book is going to
give black people fair.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Shake, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And the antithesis of that is Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Right exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking. And how
many of us have read that have read that document
because they have had the last four years to prepare.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
For day one, and they were ready, right, and they've
been working on Projects twenty twenty five, you know, prior
to the Heritage Foundation for many years absolutely many years
and they and they found the person to be their
show piece. Absolutely well.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Politically, the thing's nine hundred pages, the products twenty five
and President Trump, when he was running for Rolfs said, oh,
I have nothing to deal with that. I read about
one hundred pages of it. And the one hundred pages
of the same is indicative of what the project's about.
It's always government's bad. We're going to cut government. So
we're going to called veterans benefits. We're gonna put veterans
(24:43):
for old people, sick people gave people we're cutting and
that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
But veterans, how can, I mean, how can you do
that to those people that you sent, that you asked,
and you sent young people that you have to give
their lives to fight for you, old folks setting policies
and setting policies and everything to their detriment. How can
and then when they when they leave, when they get
(25:09):
when they get out, or when they get shot up,
they're disabled, or whatever the case may be, then you
don't want to you don't want to give them anything.
You don't give them anything in return.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Veterans too, And that's the point.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, it's time for us to go.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Hunh.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
It is such a great conversation. It goes by so quickly.
I'll save the thought when you come back. Okay, but
thank you to our listeners for listening to finding Out
with Pete and the Poe with gold Karmen. It's always
wonderful having you here.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Thank you, I enjoy you.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
The African
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Family Partnership
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