Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer, Those
are the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station, gets, staff,
management or ownership. Good morning, you'll find out Pete and
poel Cold. I'm Peter Leonard and poblic Cold is not
with us today, but she's going to be back next
week for sure. And in the meantime, we have a student,
(00:22):
a student who has been the inter in this ship,
and his name is Luca.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm Luca Frears. I'm a vaster student class of twenty
twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Okay, now even the phrase class of I mean you're
going to graduate in two years. No faster, people, Sometimes
it's just the way. Look he did in the here
identified himself with numbers that nobody else actually cares about.
But I know you've been working on communications as an interest.
(00:53):
What's actually your major? What are you studying? Faster?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm I'm an English major with a film corel it,
which I think also no one really cares about. When
I say correlate, people are like, what does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, well explain it. I'm taking question.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm taking a couple of classes in the film department.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, and what does it mean to have a course
in film? People we think we know what it means
to have an English course, but well, I think most
of us don't really have an idea of what it
means to take a course in film.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, I think mostly film analysis. So we're watching films
on like a screening day and then we come in
on regular class and discuss and analyze kind of the
cinematography and the messaging of the film.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So, do you you name a film you will dealt
with this semester?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
The film Happy Together, Okay, it's a it's a film
about two men in Argentina who moved from Hong Kong
and kind of have this tension filled relationship and shipped
about their journey through through that relationship.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Okay, So that's sort of a you know, it's not
Tom Cruise running around. It's it's it's sort of an
exotic kind of thing you know about you guys from
Hong Kong. That's uh. And so, but what I'm trying
to get you work on, like what's the story, or
(02:23):
you work on how we shot, like from what angles
is shot?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I think the initial step is deciding kind of discerning
what the story is and then you get into the details,
how is that story portrayed, What are the types of
shots that the director is using, coloring all that kind.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Of stuff, And I would imagine now I'm imagining, and
I'm looking for a validation on this that when you
see how something is shot, you know, okay, let's say
even the color or the angles that the camera is,
that that would reinforce the story so that you know,
it's a story about environmental changes, and you have shots
(03:08):
from way up in the sky to give a broad
view of the the playing field or the action, that
the broad view would undermine what would undergird the theme.
That was a terrible sentence.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I think I think that's true. I think the
shots are building the story.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just the way traditional literature
or music, the you know what we might call the
background musical. Mike is right here, he really knows about music,
what uh uh, the instrumental music somehow supports the lyrics.
(03:55):
And so so you study film, you studying and you're
also interested in radio and specifically podcasting, right.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, And I think that that's kind of my main
focus for this episode is to talk about kind of
this new wave of news and how politicians are using
kind of this shift and attention away from the traditional
newsroom to kind of the podcast studio. I think in
(04:28):
the most recent presidential election, Trump appeared on i think
twenty different podcasts Over the course of his campaign, he
was reaching something like twenty three million Americans per week
through podcasting alone. And when we look at like traditional
media and kind of a traditional interview like sixty minutes,
(04:53):
you have a very polished and kind of presented look
about you. But you get an the podcast studio and
it's this kind of free form conversation between maybe a
funny host, like a comedian and the president. You kind
of break down this wall and it becomes a lot
more accessible.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And that's the theory behind it. And most President Trump
is unusually gifted at that format, I mean, because in
one sense, he's the opposite of the traditional politician, Let's
say Barack Obama, who can get up and give a
very grand and rousing speech, whereas Donald Trump's. President Trump's
(05:44):
amazing ability is even when he's giving a speech to
a thousand with ten thousand people, he seems to be
talking to them individually. So when you put him in
a studio, one to one, he's uh, he's not something
that seems to be authentic there, and now you know,
whether it's authentic or not, it doesn't matter. It seems
(06:06):
to be authentic. Whereas most of us and you better
when we're performing something that's authentic but not our personal selves.
Donald Trump has a way of being interesting about his
personal self even though he might not be that interesting.
(06:28):
I mean, hey man, it was unbelievable what they're doing
out there. Nobody ever say anything like you know, he
has these phrases that if anybody else said them, it'd
be empty headed. But with him, his talents as his
art is, I think the ability to be interesting when
not saying things that specific. Yeah, is that sort it
(06:49):
related to what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I completely. I also think. I mean, I watched
theovonn who's a comedian. I watched his episode with Trump
in preparation for this episode, and what struck me as
really interesting was, like you said, Trump does say a
lot of kind of empty things that that do connect
(07:12):
with people, but it's always kind of in line with
this agenda. He's making big claims. Sometimes they're funny, but
they're always kind of in the same Vein. But in
this episode with with Theovonn, he took an interest in
theo Vonn's personal story. He asked questions about another person.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
It's different.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Something that you never see Trump do is take interest
in another person. But in this kind of conversational setting
of the podcast, he was able to acknowledge Theovonne's kind
of perspective end story. I think that that really really
humanized him for especially a lot of younger voters.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And he did that with that the Mayor of New
York mandame like MANDOMI went to the Oval Office and
Donald Trump seemed to have a very good time with him,
and he and President Trump was never more engaging because
he was sort of in on the fund rather than
(08:18):
controlling it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting the comparison between the two.
Trump I think said during kind of the press conference
after their meeting that a lot of MAGA supporters were
going to be surprised by Mandani, and I think there
is a weird similarity between the two.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
What's that.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I think Zoron has kind of garnered this attention through
the use of social media. His social media presence is
extremely engaging and very personable. He's talking directly to the camera.
There's action, he's moving around the city, he's engaging with
the city that he wants to run. It's similar in
(09:01):
a way to Trump, who is like breaking down these
formal rules of politics and directly speaking to the people
you are going to represent.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yes, and you you put. I think what you said
is accurate the way my spend a lot of time.
But I've seen clips of it of President Trump's social
media stuff. He doesn't in person too, but he has
in my opinion, and you know, I'm of a fling Democrats,
so I'm not an objective observer on this then. But
(09:37):
Donald Trump has very bad manners in his social media
and people find that to be exciting. I don't know
if they think it's funny or what they're saying, but
it's certainly exciting to see an adult, the most powerful
man in the world, have bad manners and and that
that works for him. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I mean, you see constantly kind of like these edits
of Trump's funniest moments on Instagram, and it's it's an
alarming thing to see the president doing that. But then
on the flip side, people are extremely entertained by it,
and these videos are garnering millions of views.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Entertain there's one word inspired by some people. I want
to remind people they're finding out with Pete and the
poet called And I'm Peter Leonard and we're on the
air this morning. Poet cald is not with us today,
but we're on the air with Luca Fierer. Well, how
you say your last name?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Frears?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Fears? Okay, Lucas, hard enough, but we're on with Luca
Frears and Lucas. Talking about the nature of podcasting is
focusing specifically on President Trump's experience with that, which is
(10:52):
a very good place to lookas Trump is good at
a fellow Joe Rogan, who is probably the most famous
or the best, he gets the biggest audience of anybody.
You know, Trump was great on those shows, it seems.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I think I think it's it's it's important that we
acknowledge that this is kind of where the trends in
media are going, Like we are moving towards podcasting as
a form of actual news. I think the alarming thing
is you have people like Joe Rogan who are now
(11:29):
influencing elections with very minimal to know research at all.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well, it's not his jump to his job is asked
the questions. I mean, he's any he know, I've seen
clips of him, and he seems like an easy person
to talk two and he seems he has a social presence.
That is good. I mean, uh yeah, I mean, you know,
the the art of being the interview I think is
(11:58):
not necessarily to be informed, is to be interested. And
he seems interested in his guests.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I think that's true. But but also.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
If I'm going to accuse you of being too traditional,
you don't want that, I know, but that's what I'm
applying here. If if you're studious and all, it will work.
And so you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Well, I just I just want to say that I think, yes,
the interviewer's job is to be is to be interested
in the questions they're asking. But I also think if
someone has such a large platform like Joe Rogan and
is interviewing people with an immense amount of power and influence,
(12:52):
you then owe your audience some sort of fact checking
or basic research and also, like I would say, asking
questions that are that are meaningful and push your interview.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Which sounds very traditional newscast I mean, in an other
Mike you might have a perspective. Uncle Mike Kes I.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Was fascinated listening. I thought I'd jump in here because,
first of all, when you talk about podcasting, Charlie Kirk
influenced the last election. He got all the young people
and he did it through not only his rallies, but
he has a podcast that was very successful. I think
the difference between podcasting and the newscast. The newscast are
very structured and they're they're held hostage to their advertisers.
(13:41):
There's some things they won't talk about on newscasts because
they'll lose their advertisers. Podcasters you know, you know yourself.
Podcasting is was very hard to monetize and unless you're
a known quantity or you build up something like Joe
Rogan has. If you're a Chevy Chase for somebody who's known,
you know people, you have a following when you to
that podcast. Building a following out a podcast is very
(14:03):
difficult and it's really hard to monetize to convince advertisers.
But the other side of that is with podcasting, you
do have a way of getting the numbers of who's
listening to you. The rating system in TV and radio
is absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't makes no sense whatsoever. You know,
the island of Manhattan has eight million people on it,
they send out six thousand books, and based on a
(14:25):
response to those six thousand books, that's how they do
the ratings. And that's that's stupid.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
No way.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
I don't care what any kind of statistics course you
take that that's going to be a suitable you know,
a democrat, you know a section of people to say it.
But that's what it's been for all these years. And
then when you add to it, Nielsen will send a
book Like if he said, if I was a Nielsen family,
I would get paid whatever. It's not a lot, but
they pay you whatever they pay you. I would mod
(14:51):
of them will fill out the first line and give
it to the kid and say hey, I'll give you
twenty bucks. Fill this out the rest of the way
and we'll mail it in. So it's not accurate. But podcasting,
there is a way to monitor who's listening. You can
get the numbers through the internet who's listening. So that's
another difference. But that never seemed to really help because
it took it. It's taken a long time for podcasting
to catch on.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
By the way, it is great having an actual professional
perspective on this. Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I have a couple of podcasts that you know, basically
we were you know, we were doing of the radio show,
like my Saturday show. I try to I do a
lot of interviews and maybe you missed an interview. So
it's very effective to be able to put the interview
on in the podcast. You don't have to listen to
the whole five hour radio show. I can highlight the
interviews and tell people, hey, if you miss the interview,
(15:40):
go to the podcast, and that works. And I think podcasting,
like a lot of things that have been developed over
the last couple of years, will be a major medium
at some point. Media, you know, outlet at some point.
But it's still a long way off. I mean, unless
you have a following or a known quantity. There's there's
thousands of podcasts out there, and some of them have
twelve people listening to whom and some of them have thousands.
(16:01):
But there's more often there's more of them with twelve
listening there are with thousands. I'd be honest with you,
there's only a couple of really big podcasts.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, I mean, even our podcasts here yeah, is something
that we uh, we liked doing it, and some you know,
some really great stuff happened. But Mike's points ought to
build an audience for it.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah, well your broadcast, Peter used to rebroadcast to the
radio program is what it is, and which is very
effective because again, if if somebody missed an interview with
Luca or whoever you had on here, you could say, well,
if you go to the podcast, you can hear the
whole thing. So it's not going forever, you know what
I mean. You have a way of doing it. But
I was fascinated this past election that you know, Charlie
(16:45):
Kirk had a big influence and it was the first
time that I can ever remember that an election was
actually influenced by the younger voters, because usually the younger
voters don't vote, and this time they did have They
had a big influence on it this time, and I
think the podcast was a big part of that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I know you have a perspective on younger voters. Well,
what do you think of what Mike says there about it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I think it's true. I think when you look at
people like Zoron as well in New York City, he
i mean, he built his entire campaign off of the
young support. I think by activating younger voters through social media,
politicians are having a lot more success. I think what's
(17:27):
important for younger voters is kind of for politicians to
acknowledge them and again feel like they're getting talked to,
not talked at, which I think a lot of people
feel with a more traditional politician like you look at
Gavin Newsom in California, I think he's really struggling to
(17:50):
build up a kind of a younger base because he
seems very much like a traditional, kind of cookie cutter politician.
But then you have people like zor On and even
now Jack Schlosberg in New York, who who's related to
the Kennedy's is setting these grandsons. He's starting up a
(18:11):
campaign for a house seat in New York and is
following kind of similar paths as Zoron, building on kind
of this social media presence.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Different social media and podcasting is essential. I mean social
media you're able to control the two or three minutes
of the action, whereas if you have a half holse
podcast there's something different to that.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well. I think a big part of successful podcasts is
the social media aspect, Like a lot of people are
promoting their podcast by clipping segments of the podcast and
posting it onto the internet.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And you do that for the Finding Out show.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, and so if you are able to then clip
these podcast episodes put them up online. I think that's
actually where you're getting the most reach. It's not it's
not exactly people sitting down and listening to the hour
long interview. It's them seeing maybe like on Instagram a
thirty second clip.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Of the NFL highlights, Yeah, NFL films.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Right. He was so successful for years when zoron, you know,
I was fascinated because he's he's very smart and he's
very intuitive when it comes to social media. So the
Democratic Party over the last several years has built built
a more of a a socialist direction for the government,
(19:40):
and he capitalized on that, saying he was going to
turn New York into something like that, and all the
young people who didn't really understand socialism at first and
got a quick education through the Democratic Party of the
good of the good aspects of it. He capitalized on
that and through the podcasting, it's mainly young people watching
(20:01):
the podcast. How many podcasts do you watch Peter, be honest,
and I don't watch a lot of them either. But
the younger people, because of their first of all attachment
to their phones. Any downtime you have, you can watch
podcasts on your phone. I mean any downtime. You can
watch ten minutes here and ten minutes there in between classes.
If you got ten minutes you could, you could, you know,
(20:22):
So in the course of a day they may watch
three or four different podcasts what they're interested in.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
There's a New Yorker article that said the podcast is
the Internet for the years, like you are constantly getting
some sort of stimulation. So if politicians are reaching you
when you're on your phone scrolling on Instagram and then
also reaching you when you're walking and listening to a podcast,
I mean their reach has expanded tenfold from where it
(20:48):
was twelve fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And they might even listen to find the Out with
Pete and Poear Cold because and they would be told
if they were listening, so they all find the Out
with Pola Cold on. Luca Frez is with us today
and he is, and I'm Peter Leonard, and we have
Uncle Mike Hanson with us, our resident and producer expert
(21:12):
on radio personality. But I have a comment Luca made
me think of when they in twenty fifteen when Donald
Trump was running for president and Ted Cruz was also
a major candidate, and you know, they were saying, you know,
all the Trump is capitalizing on the anger and stuff
(21:35):
like that. I know called Trump. Cruise is a guy
who you know, he's angry too. I mean, you can't
be more angry than Ted Cruz. But what I thought
at the time, I think it's wound up being untrue.
Ted Cruz was telling people why they should be angry.
President the current president. He would say to people would
(21:56):
have a few It's fine, I agree with you, you're right.
He would tell them why they should be angry. They
were already angry and he was confirming it, where say
Cruise wanted to bust them around. And I think that
obviously Trump had the right beat on that.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
I think Donald Trump is probably the first candidate and
now two time president that was actually I don't know
how to say it, and I'm not trying to insult
all our presidents, but he was a personality. Most of
them aren't. Most of them are just based on what
their career path has been, whether they were congress or astronauts,
or you know, some of them actually successful football players,
(22:33):
things like that. That was what they Trump was a
bona fide personality with huge ratings with The Apprentice, and
a lot of people knew who he was and were
entertained by him. Now, all of a sudden, you have
a guy running for president who's actually entertaining. I think
that caught a lot of people by surprise.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
That's really a big insight. Yeah, because he is a
I mean, I don't like what he says, but when
he was on television, I listened to it. He's compelling,
his magic.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
I would not want to be one of his handlers,
for lack of a better word, because some of the
things he says, I'm sure they're off cameras just cringing
what he's saying them. But the beauty of that is
his persona is transparency, and what you see is what
you get is kind of and a lot of people
like that, even New Yorkers, hardcore New Yorkers love that.
(23:22):
Even though they don't like Trump, they love the fact
that somebody is up there just saying it like it is,
and that carried him a long way.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I think that's similar to what Zoron is doing. Yeah,
he's extremely reachable, he's honest and is not doesn't feel
like he's hiding some big secret.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I have a different perspective on that. For both of them,
they both seem to be authentic on one to one
conversation and in large grads they can do it too.
But my sense is, and it's more extreme in Trump's case,
and maybe it's also meanings or on Mondamini's case, the
(24:03):
authenticity is itself an autistic creation. It's sort of like
Mark Twain tonight. You know, it's I'm just going to
speak from the heart. Speaking from the heart is actually
an art. And you know, the Barack Obama model of
being inspirational, big ideas, full of information, passionate person that's
(24:26):
clearly art. And when you hear what's the name Obama?
Obama interviewed on a way, Obama's pretty dull. He's like,
he's not a personality. And Mike's pointed, politicians are like
their their resume and Donald Trump is actually a personality.
And I would love it if you would just stay
(24:47):
on page six in the New York Post.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
You know, with entertainment, you find that you really want
to have an audience listening because they what's he going
to say next, what's he going You know, it's like Nascar.
If you're a Nascar fan, a lot of people don't
watch for the race. They watched for the recks. They're
waiting for the big wreck to happen. With Donald Trump,
you're waiting for that big wreck to happen, and that's
why you stay. But no matter how he's doing it,
(25:12):
he's got him engaged, you know. With Zoron, I thought,
I thought that was amazing to me. The two parties
that ran he they put Cuomo up there, who was
who had to leave office? And he was obviously a crook.
I'm sorry, but it was pretty obvious that he did
some things he shouldn't love. And they had the incoming
mayor who just kind of sat down for some reason,
(25:33):
he gave up, you know, I mean, he he was
inferred that he had done a lot of things wrong,
and he did get acquitted. But still, but it was
out there and and and Zoron, even though he had
some of the wild socialist ideas that he portrayed, they
never caught him doing something he wasn't supposed to. And
the other two parties should have thought it, you know,
(25:54):
the candidates they were in. It was it was pretty
obvious halfway through he was gonna win. I mean, he
won everybody over and he won by landslide.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah. I also think it'll be interesting to see what
Zoron does now. I mean we're having a bit of
an inclination into what he's going to be like as
a mayor in his transition period. He It's interesting because
he did campaign on like very radical ideas, but is
now kind of walking them back a little bit. I
(26:23):
mean he didn't he didn't endorse, oh say, for a
challenge against Hakim Jeffries. He's supporting Hakim Jeffries, which I
think a lot of his younger base is not super
pleased with. Such interesting to see Zoron kind of conform
to the Democratic the Democratic kind of main party.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
But the aught of being a guest is the key.
Watch a lot of left wing political figures on MSNBC,
and they have podcasts. So my favorite one is Nicole Wallace.
She's a great interview. I love when she says she's firing.
She's really smart in a traditional way and she's politically
(27:10):
adapt at fighting. But when she has a podcast, and
the podcast sort of stinks, you know, like when she
gets to talk to people who are good politically but
don't have personalities, it's a mess.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Donald Trump and Mandami they know how to appear to
have actual personalities.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
When you're doing any kind of interview show, I declar
you for years, it's really And I've done a lot
of live radio when you're on live radio, So Peter,
you know, I have this question, and the key is
as an interviewer, you want to ask the question and
get out of the way and let the guests talk.
Some interviewers, like someone we know, always wanted to show
how smart they were and they would ask a question
and answer it before the guests got a chance. What's
(27:53):
the point of happening to guests there? You have to
learn that. But sometimes, you know, I go through this
question and Peter says, yeah, I agree with you, and
now you're in trouble because you've got it all of
ten minutes you got to fill and Peter's finished, He's
given his you know not I'm just I'm not saying
you do that, but I've had that happen with guess
when you're interviewing somebody and to give you a oh yeah,
well did you expand on that? I mean, what do
(28:14):
you mean? Yeah, well, I agree with it, you know,
but you have to be able as the interviewer, only
know enough to get out of the way, but be
ready to carry the rest of the show, because sometimes
the guests just don't want to contribute.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
And that would go back to your idea of having
a knowledgeable and through yours to help.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Yeah, you have to research.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I mean, yeah, I'm wondering. We kind of talked about
the influenced podcast has been having on politics and these
kind of bigger podcasts taking I think a large portion
of the viewership from mainstay news sources. Peter, Mike, do
(28:53):
you think that there should be a responsibility with the
host or even the production team to research and kind
of take take a responsibility from the newsroom and produce
factual information not just opinion.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
But when you do that, if you don't do it,
if you if you're talented, it's getting the other persons
to talk.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Now we're running out of time, but it's only it's
amazing to me the regial, regular broadcast media are scared
to death of podcasts because podcasts has such freedom that
they don't have and they don't have any you know,
near newscasts are pretty structured. I mean, before they go
into the new they know what they're going to say,
and most of them are reading from teleprompters. They don't
(29:37):
have their own original thoughts. Well, the most of the podcasters,
you're sitting in a room with somebody and you don't
have a teleprompter. You've got to be able to have
the research done and interact with the guests. So I
think the news media broadcast are scared to death to
podcast because they are showing another side of the medium
and it's gonna I think it will be successful, really
successful one day. It's getting there, but it's going to
(29:58):
take a while.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
And look, do you have fifteen seconds worth of things
to say to us?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Well, I think it's funny because we're talking on a
podcast and we're talking about podcasts. Pretty pretty meadow over
here finding out.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
And we appreciate you not only being a guest today
but helping out with the production. We'll wait, Will, Semessa
and Mike. We really appreciate you jumping in to help
with the content. It was a real lift for us.
We need it right, we need it, you know it.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Okay, I just thank you, as.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Public call says to the audience, and we appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Thank you, Peter
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer, Those
are the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station, gets, staff,
management or ownership. Good morning, you'll find out Pete and
poel Cold. I'm Peter Leonard and poblic Cold is not
with us today, but she's going to be back next
week for sure. And in the meantime, we have a student,
(00:22):
a student who has been the inter in this ship,
and his name is Luca.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm Luca Frears. I'm a vaster student class of twenty
twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Okay, now even the phrase class of I mean you're
going to graduate in two years. No faster, people, Sometimes
it's just the way. Look he did in the here
identified himself with numbers that nobody else actually cares about.
But I know you've been working on communications as an interest.
(00:53):
What's actually your major? What are you studying? Faster?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm I'm an English major with a film corel it,
which I think also no one really cares about. When
I say correlate, people are like, what does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, well explain it. I'm taking question.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm taking a couple of classes in the film department.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, and what does it mean to have a course
in film? People we think we know what it means
to have an English course, but well, I think most
of us don't really have an idea of what it
means to take a course in film.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, I think mostly film analysis. So we're watching films
on like a screening day and then we come in
on regular class and discuss and analyze kind of the
cinematography and the messaging of the film.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So, do you you name a film you will dealt
with this semester?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
The film Happy Together, Okay, it's a it's a film
about two men in Argentina who moved from Hong Kong
and kind of have this tension filled relationship and shipped
about their journey through through that relationship.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Okay, So that's sort of a you know, it's not
Tom Cruise running around. It's it's it's sort of an
exotic kind of thing you know about you guys from
Hong Kong. That's uh. And so, but what I'm trying
to get you work on, like what's the story, or
(02:23):
you work on how we shot, like from what angles
is shot?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I think the initial step is deciding kind of discerning
what the story is and then you get into the details,
how is that story portrayed, What are the types of
shots that the director is using, coloring all that kind.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Of stuff, And I would imagine now I'm imagining, and
I'm looking for a validation on this that when you
see how something is shot, you know, okay, let's say
even the color or the angles that the camera is,
that that would reinforce the story so that you know,
it's a story about environmental changes, and you have shots
(03:08):
from way up in the sky to give a broad
view of the the playing field or the action, that
the broad view would undermine what would undergird the theme.
That was a terrible sentence.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I think I think that's true. I think the
shots are building the story.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just the way traditional literature
or music, the you know what we might call the
background musical. Mike is right here, he really knows about music,
what uh uh, the instrumental music somehow supports the lyrics.
(03:55):
And so so you study film, you studying and you're
also interested in radio and specifically podcasting, right.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, And I think that that's kind of my main
focus for this episode is to talk about kind of
this new wave of news and how politicians are using
kind of this shift and attention away from the traditional
newsroom to kind of the podcast studio. I think in
(04:28):
the most recent presidential election, Trump appeared on i think
twenty different podcasts Over the course of his campaign, he
was reaching something like twenty three million Americans per week
through podcasting alone. And when we look at like traditional
media and kind of a traditional interview like sixty minutes,
(04:53):
you have a very polished and kind of presented look
about you. But you get an the podcast studio and
it's this kind of free form conversation between maybe a
funny host, like a comedian and the president. You kind
of break down this wall and it becomes a lot
more accessible.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And that's the theory behind it. And most President Trump
is unusually gifted at that format, I mean, because in
one sense, he's the opposite of the traditional politician, Let's
say Barack Obama, who can get up and give a
very grand and rousing speech, whereas Donald Trump's. President Trump's
(05:44):
amazing ability is even when he's giving a speech to
a thousand with ten thousand people, he seems to be
talking to them individually. So when you put him in
a studio, one to one, he's uh, he's not something
that seems to be authentic there, and now you know,
whether it's authentic or not, it doesn't matter. It seems
(06:06):
to be authentic. Whereas most of us and you better
when we're performing something that's authentic but not our personal selves.
Donald Trump has a way of being interesting about his
personal self even though he might not be that interesting.
(06:28):
I mean, hey man, it was unbelievable what they're doing
out there. Nobody ever say anything like you know, he
has these phrases that if anybody else said them, it'd
be empty headed. But with him, his talents as his
art is, I think the ability to be interesting when
not saying things that specific. Yeah, is that sort it
(06:49):
related to what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I completely. I also think. I mean, I watched
theovonn who's a comedian. I watched his episode with Trump
in preparation for this episode, and what struck me as
really interesting was, like you said, Trump does say a
lot of kind of empty things that that do connect
(07:12):
with people, but it's always kind of in line with
this agenda. He's making big claims. Sometimes they're funny, but
they're always kind of in the same Vein. But in
this episode with with Theovonn, he took an interest in
theo Vonn's personal story. He asked questions about another person.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
It's different.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Something that you never see Trump do is take interest
in another person. But in this kind of conversational setting
of the podcast, he was able to acknowledge Theovonne's kind
of perspective end story. I think that that really really
humanized him for especially a lot of younger voters.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And he did that with that the Mayor of New
York mandame like MANDOMI went to the Oval Office and
Donald Trump seemed to have a very good time with him,
and he and President Trump was never more engaging because
he was sort of in on the fund rather than
(08:18):
controlling it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting the comparison between the two.
Trump I think said during kind of the press conference
after their meeting that a lot of MAGA supporters were
going to be surprised by Mandani, and I think there
is a weird similarity between the two.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
What's that.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I think Zoron has kind of garnered this attention through
the use of social media. His social media presence is
extremely engaging and very personable. He's talking directly to the camera.
There's action, he's moving around the city, he's engaging with
the city that he wants to run. It's similar in
(09:01):
a way to Trump, who is like breaking down these
formal rules of politics and directly speaking to the people
you are going to represent.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yes, and you you put. I think what you said
is accurate the way my spend a lot of time.
But I've seen clips of it of President Trump's social
media stuff. He doesn't in person too, but he has
in my opinion, and you know, I'm of a fling Democrats,
so I'm not an objective observer on this then. But
(09:37):
Donald Trump has very bad manners in his social media
and people find that to be exciting. I don't know
if they think it's funny or what they're saying, but
it's certainly exciting to see an adult, the most powerful
man in the world, have bad manners and and that
that works for him. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I mean, you see constantly kind of like these edits
of Trump's funniest moments on Instagram, and it's it's an
alarming thing to see the president doing that. But then
on the flip side, people are extremely entertained by it,
and these videos are garnering millions of views.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Entertain there's one word inspired by some people. I want
to remind people they're finding out with Pete and the
poet called And I'm Peter Leonard and we're on the
air this morning. Poet cald is not with us today,
but we're on the air with Luca Fierer. Well, how
you say your last name?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Frears?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Fears? Okay, Lucas, hard enough, but we're on with Luca
Frears and Lucas. Talking about the nature of podcasting is
focusing specifically on President Trump's experience with that, which is
(10:52):
a very good place to lookas Trump is good at
a fellow Joe Rogan, who is probably the most famous
or the best, he gets the biggest audience of anybody.
You know, Trump was great on those shows, it seems.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I think I think it's it's it's important that we
acknowledge that this is kind of where the trends in
media are going, Like we are moving towards podcasting as
a form of actual news. I think the alarming thing
is you have people like Joe Rogan who are now
(11:29):
influencing elections with very minimal to know research at all.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well, it's not his jump to his job is asked
the questions. I mean, he's any he know, I've seen
clips of him, and he seems like an easy person
to talk two and he seems he has a social presence.
That is good. I mean, uh yeah, I mean, you know,
the the art of being the interview I think is
(11:58):
not necessarily to be informed, is to be interested. And
he seems interested in his guests.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I think that's true. But but also.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
If I'm going to accuse you of being too traditional,
you don't want that, I know, but that's what I'm
applying here. If if you're studious and all, it will work.
And so you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Well, I just I just want to say that I think, yes,
the interviewer's job is to be is to be interested
in the questions they're asking. But I also think if
someone has such a large platform like Joe Rogan and
is interviewing people with an immense amount of power and influence,
(12:52):
you then owe your audience some sort of fact checking
or basic research and also, like I would say, asking
questions that are that are meaningful and push your interview.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Which sounds very traditional newscast I mean, in an other
Mike you might have a perspective. Uncle Mike Kes I.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Was fascinated listening. I thought I'd jump in here because,
first of all, when you talk about podcasting, Charlie Kirk
influenced the last election. He got all the young people
and he did it through not only his rallies, but
he has a podcast that was very successful. I think
the difference between podcasting and the newscast. The newscast are
very structured and they're they're held hostage to their advertisers.
(13:41):
There's some things they won't talk about on newscasts because
they'll lose their advertisers. Podcasters you know, you know yourself.
Podcasting is was very hard to monetize and unless you're
a known quantity or you build up something like Joe
Rogan has. If you're a Chevy Chase for somebody who's known,
you know people, you have a following when you to
that podcast. Building a following out a podcast is very
(14:03):
difficult and it's really hard to monetize to convince advertisers.
But the other side of that is with podcasting, you
do have a way of getting the numbers of who's
listening to you. The rating system in TV and radio
is absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't makes no sense whatsoever. You know,
the island of Manhattan has eight million people on it,
they send out six thousand books, and based on a
(14:25):
response to those six thousand books, that's how they do
the ratings. And that's that's stupid.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
No way.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
I don't care what any kind of statistics course you
take that that's going to be a suitable you know,
a democrat, you know a section of people to say it.
But that's what it's been for all these years. And
then when you add to it, Nielsen will send a
book Like if he said, if I was a Nielsen family,
I would get paid whatever. It's not a lot, but
they pay you whatever they pay you. I would mod
(14:51):
of them will fill out the first line and give
it to the kid and say hey, I'll give you
twenty bucks. Fill this out the rest of the way
and we'll mail it in. So it's not accurate. But podcasting,
there is a way to monitor who's listening. You can
get the numbers through the internet who's listening. So that's
another difference. But that never seemed to really help because
it took it. It's taken a long time for podcasting
to catch on.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
By the way, it is great having an actual professional
perspective on this. Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I have a couple of podcasts that you know, basically
we were you know, we were doing of the radio show,
like my Saturday show. I try to I do a
lot of interviews and maybe you missed an interview. So
it's very effective to be able to put the interview
on in the podcast. You don't have to listen to
the whole five hour radio show. I can highlight the
interviews and tell people, hey, if you miss the interview,
(15:40):
go to the podcast, and that works. And I think podcasting,
like a lot of things that have been developed over
the last couple of years, will be a major medium
at some point. Media, you know, outlet at some point.
But it's still a long way off. I mean, unless
you have a following or a known quantity. There's there's
thousands of podcasts out there, and some of them have
twelve people listening to whom and some of them have thousands.
(16:01):
But there's more often there's more of them with twelve
listening there are with thousands. I'd be honest with you,
there's only a couple of really big podcasts.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, I mean, even our podcasts here yeah, is something
that we uh, we liked doing it, and some you know,
some really great stuff happened. But Mike's points ought to
build an audience for it.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah, well your broadcast, Peter used to rebroadcast to the
radio program is what it is, and which is very
effective because again, if if somebody missed an interview with
Luca or whoever you had on here, you could say, well,
if you go to the podcast, you can hear the
whole thing. So it's not going forever, you know what
I mean. You have a way of doing it. But
I was fascinated this past election that you know, Charlie
(16:45):
Kirk had a big influence and it was the first
time that I can ever remember that an election was
actually influenced by the younger voters, because usually the younger
voters don't vote, and this time they did have They
had a big influence on it this time, and I
think the podcast was a big part of that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I know you have a perspective on younger voters. Well,
what do you think of what Mike says there about it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I think it's true. I think when you look at
people like Zoron as well in New York City, he
i mean, he built his entire campaign off of the
young support. I think by activating younger voters through social media,
politicians are having a lot more success. I think what's
(17:27):
important for younger voters is kind of for politicians to
acknowledge them and again feel like they're getting talked to,
not talked at, which I think a lot of people
feel with a more traditional politician like you look at
Gavin Newsom in California, I think he's really struggling to
(17:50):
build up a kind of a younger base because he
seems very much like a traditional, kind of cookie cutter politician.
But then you have people like zor On and even
now Jack Schlosberg in New York, who who's related to
the Kennedy's is setting these grandsons. He's starting up a
(18:11):
campaign for a house seat in New York and is
following kind of similar paths as Zoron, building on kind
of this social media presence.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Different social media and podcasting is essential. I mean social
media you're able to control the two or three minutes
of the action, whereas if you have a half holse
podcast there's something different to that.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well. I think a big part of successful podcasts is
the social media aspect, Like a lot of people are
promoting their podcast by clipping segments of the podcast and
posting it onto the internet.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And you do that for the Finding Out show.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, and so if you are able to then clip
these podcast episodes put them up online. I think that's
actually where you're getting the most reach. It's not it's
not exactly people sitting down and listening to the hour
long interview. It's them seeing maybe like on Instagram a
thirty second clip.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Of the NFL highlights, Yeah, NFL films.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Right. He was so successful for years when zoron, you know,
I was fascinated because he's he's very smart and he's
very intuitive when it comes to social media. So the
Democratic Party over the last several years has built built
a more of a a socialist direction for the government,
(19:40):
and he capitalized on that, saying he was going to
turn New York into something like that, and all the
young people who didn't really understand socialism at first and
got a quick education through the Democratic Party of the
good of the good aspects of it. He capitalized on
that and through the podcasting, it's mainly young people watching
(20:01):
the podcast. How many podcasts do you watch Peter, be honest,
and I don't watch a lot of them either. But
the younger people, because of their first of all attachment
to their phones. Any downtime you have, you can watch
podcasts on your phone. I mean any downtime. You can
watch ten minutes here and ten minutes there in between classes.
If you got ten minutes you could, you could, you know,
(20:22):
So in the course of a day they may watch
three or four different podcasts what they're interested in.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
There's a New Yorker article that said the podcast is
the Internet for the years, like you are constantly getting
some sort of stimulation. So if politicians are reaching you
when you're on your phone scrolling on Instagram and then
also reaching you when you're walking and listening to a podcast,
I mean their reach has expanded tenfold from where it
(20:48):
was twelve fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And they might even listen to find the Out with
Pete and Poear Cold because and they would be told
if they were listening, so they all find the Out
with Pola Cold on. Luca Frez is with us today
and he is, and I'm Peter Leonard, and we have
Uncle Mike Hanson with us, our resident and producer expert
(21:12):
on radio personality. But I have a comment Luca made
me think of when they in twenty fifteen when Donald
Trump was running for president and Ted Cruz was also
a major candidate, and you know, they were saying, you know,
all the Trump is capitalizing on the anger and stuff
(21:35):
like that. I know called Trump. Cruise is a guy
who you know, he's angry too. I mean, you can't
be more angry than Ted Cruz. But what I thought
at the time, I think it's wound up being untrue.
Ted Cruz was telling people why they should be angry.
President the current president. He would say to people would
(21:56):
have a few It's fine, I agree with you, you're right.
He would tell them why they should be angry. They
were already angry and he was confirming it, where say
Cruise wanted to bust them around. And I think that
obviously Trump had the right beat on that.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
I think Donald Trump is probably the first candidate and
now two time president that was actually I don't know
how to say it, and I'm not trying to insult
all our presidents, but he was a personality. Most of
them aren't. Most of them are just based on what
their career path has been, whether they were congress or astronauts,
or you know, some of them actually successful football players,
(22:33):
things like that. That was what they Trump was a
bona fide personality with huge ratings with The Apprentice, and
a lot of people knew who he was and were
entertained by him. Now, all of a sudden, you have
a guy running for president who's actually entertaining. I think
that caught a lot of people by surprise.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
That's really a big insight. Yeah, because he is a
I mean, I don't like what he says, but when
he was on television, I listened to it. He's compelling,
his magic.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
I would not want to be one of his handlers,
for lack of a better word, because some of the
things he says, I'm sure they're off cameras just cringing
what he's saying them. But the beauty of that is
his persona is transparency, and what you see is what
you get is kind of and a lot of people
like that, even New Yorkers, hardcore New Yorkers love that.
(23:22):
Even though they don't like Trump, they love the fact
that somebody is up there just saying it like it is,
and that carried him a long way.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I think that's similar to what Zoron is doing. Yeah,
he's extremely reachable, he's honest and is not doesn't feel
like he's hiding some big secret.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I have a different perspective on that. For both of them,
they both seem to be authentic on one to one
conversation and in large grads they can do it too.
But my sense is, and it's more extreme in Trump's case,
and maybe it's also meanings or on Mondamini's case, the
(24:03):
authenticity is itself an autistic creation. It's sort of like
Mark Twain tonight. You know, it's I'm just going to
speak from the heart. Speaking from the heart is actually
an art. And you know, the Barack Obama model of
being inspirational, big ideas, full of information, passionate person that's
(24:26):
clearly art. And when you hear what's the name Obama?
Obama interviewed on a way, Obama's pretty dull. He's like,
he's not a personality. And Mike's pointed, politicians are like
their their resume and Donald Trump is actually a personality.
And I would love it if you would just stay
(24:47):
on page six in the New York Post.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
You know, with entertainment, you find that you really want
to have an audience listening because they what's he going
to say next, what's he going You know, it's like Nascar.
If you're a Nascar fan, a lot of people don't
watch for the race. They watched for the recks. They're
waiting for the big wreck to happen. With Donald Trump,
you're waiting for that big wreck to happen, and that's
why you stay. But no matter how he's doing it,
(25:12):
he's got him engaged, you know. With Zoron, I thought,
I thought that was amazing to me. The two parties
that ran he they put Cuomo up there, who was
who had to leave office? And he was obviously a crook.
I'm sorry, but it was pretty obvious that he did
some things he shouldn't love. And they had the incoming
mayor who just kind of sat down for some reason,
(25:33):
he gave up, you know, I mean, he he was
inferred that he had done a lot of things wrong,
and he did get acquitted. But still, but it was
out there and and and Zoron, even though he had
some of the wild socialist ideas that he portrayed, they
never caught him doing something he wasn't supposed to. And
the other two parties should have thought it, you know,
(25:54):
the candidates they were in. It was it was pretty
obvious halfway through he was gonna win. I mean, he
won everybody over and he won by landslide.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah. I also think it'll be interesting to see what
Zoron does now. I mean we're having a bit of
an inclination into what he's going to be like as
a mayor in his transition period. He It's interesting because
he did campaign on like very radical ideas, but is
now kind of walking them back a little bit. I
(26:23):
mean he didn't he didn't endorse, oh say, for a
challenge against Hakim Jeffries. He's supporting Hakim Jeffries, which I
think a lot of his younger base is not super
pleased with. Such interesting to see Zoron kind of conform
to the Democratic the Democratic kind of main party.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
But the aught of being a guest is the key.
Watch a lot of left wing political figures on MSNBC,
and they have podcasts. So my favorite one is Nicole Wallace.
She's a great interview. I love when she says she's firing.
She's really smart in a traditional way and she's politically
(27:10):
adapt at fighting. But when she has a podcast, and
the podcast sort of stinks, you know, like when she
gets to talk to people who are good politically but
don't have personalities, it's a mess.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Donald Trump and Mandami they know how to appear to
have actual personalities.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
When you're doing any kind of interview show, I declar
you for years, it's really And I've done a lot
of live radio when you're on live radio, So Peter,
you know, I have this question, and the key is
as an interviewer, you want to ask the question and
get out of the way and let the guests talk.
Some interviewers, like someone we know, always wanted to show
how smart they were and they would ask a question
and answer it before the guests got a chance. What's
(27:53):
the point of happening to guests there? You have to
learn that. But sometimes, you know, I go through this
question and Peter says, yeah, I agree with you, and
now you're in trouble because you've got it all of
ten minutes you got to fill and Peter's finished, He's
given his you know not I'm just I'm not saying
you do that, but I've had that happen with guess
when you're interviewing somebody and to give you a oh yeah,
well did you expand on that? I mean, what do
(28:14):
you mean? Yeah, well, I agree with it, you know,
but you have to be able as the interviewer, only
know enough to get out of the way, but be
ready to carry the rest of the show, because sometimes
the guests just don't want to contribute.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
And that would go back to your idea of having
a knowledgeable and through yours to help.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Yeah, you have to research.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I mean, yeah, I'm wondering. We kind of talked about
the influenced podcast has been having on politics and these
kind of bigger podcasts taking I think a large portion
of the viewership from mainstay news sources. Peter, Mike, do
(28:53):
you think that there should be a responsibility with the
host or even the production team to research and kind
of take take a responsibility from the newsroom and produce
factual information not just opinion.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
But when you do that, if you don't do it,
if you if you're talented, it's getting the other persons
to talk.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Now we're running out of time, but it's only it's
amazing to me the regial, regular broadcast media are scared
to death of podcasts because podcasts has such freedom that
they don't have and they don't have any you know,
near newscasts are pretty structured. I mean, before they go
into the new they know what they're going to say,
and most of them are reading from teleprompters. They don't
(29:37):
have their own original thoughts. Well, the most of the podcasters,
you're sitting in a room with somebody and you don't
have a teleprompter. You've got to be able to have
the research done and interact with the guests. So I
think the news media broadcast are scared to death to
podcast because they are showing another side of the medium
and it's gonna I think it will be successful, really
successful one day. It's getting there, but it's going to
(29:58):
take a while.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
And look, do you have fifteen seconds worth of things
to say to us?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Well, I think it's funny because we're talking on a
podcast and we're talking about podcasts. Pretty pretty meadow over
here finding out.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
And we appreciate you not only being a guest today
but helping out with the production. We'll wait, Will, Semessa
and Mike. We really appreciate you jumping in to help
with the content. It was a real lift for us.
We need it right, we need it, you know it.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Okay, I just thank you, as.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Public call says to the audience, and we appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Thank you, Peter
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