Episode 138 - Orange Cassidy, Japan, and Pokemon Unite Casters

This week on the return of Cheesesteaks And Controllers, Jason sits down with Orange Cassidy, AEW International Champion, ahead of AEW Dynamite at the Liacouras Center on Temple University's campus. He then recounts his trip to Japan in August, before ending the show with two Pokemon Unite casters, Spragels and Zoinks, to talk about the competitive Unite scene.

Episode Transcript

(00:26):
Hello, and welcome to episode numberone hundred and thirty eight of the Cheese,
Steaks and Controllers podcast presented by FoxPHL The Gambler one A two point
five FM fourteen eighty AM, iHeartRadiowherever you get your podcasts, coming at
you live from Philadelphia. I madethe mistake of waiting until after Game seven
of the NLCS to record this.I should have known better, so but

(00:50):
I'm going to try and keep theenergy up because this is a very good
episode that we have for you today. Recording this on Tuesday night, October
twenty fourth. Wednesday, October twentyfifth, All Elite Wrestling brings AW Dynamite
and Rampage back to Temple University's LeaKorus Center. Tickets are still available,
and we have a great talk withone of the current champions from AW at

(01:11):
the top of this episode, sostick around for that second segment of the
show. I'm going to talk aboutwhere I've been for the last two months,
the games I've reviewed, the placesI've gone, stuff like that.
Should be a very good segment there. And then finally I'm going to wrap
things up this week with two interviewsfrom one of the big places I have
been recently. We'll get into thattalking about a particular games competitive scene and

(01:36):
how they continues to grow in thefuture. But let's not waste any more
time, all right, our firstguest here today. I don't know if
you've noticed this, but we've talkedabout wrestling here before on the show,
and All Elite Wrestling AW coming backto Temple University at the Leah Korus Center
for the first time in thirteen months. I had not realized I had not

(01:57):
been in this city for that long, but I was at the last show,
and then I bought tickets to thisshow. I realized, oh,
it really has been a year.Very excited to see them come back.
Not the least reason because the guywe're about to talk to you right now
has been one of the foundations ofthe promotion since it started, and honestly
one of the steadiest performers this yearand a year that's been sort of tumultuous.

(02:22):
I think it's a light way ofputting it. This guy right here
has been one of the best towatch, and that is your current All
Elite Wrestling Wrestling International Champion Orange CassidyOrange. How are we today? You
know, a little less higher thanusual. That's good. I didn't do
anything this past dynamite, so I'mkilling Okay. That's good. Glad to

(02:46):
hear that. Nice to see you. Like I said before we started recording,
here, get that title back.How's it feeling? I have that
strap back around your ways? Doyour pants stay up better? No?
They don't still fall down? Iactually have it right here. I have
my back. I always keep itwith me. I have like the backpack
right here at home. I wouldI would never let go of it,

(03:07):
like even even while. Is thatis gorgeous? Look at that? Yeah,
nice to see you have that back. Like I was saying in the
intro. There your work in thesince you got that title in March up
until when you lost it in September. Uh in what was a rather strange

(03:29):
summer for your promotion, with allof the nonsense going on around you,
you kept it steady. You keptthe ships sailing, and I really did
appreciate that. Did you feel likeyou kind of had to take that on
just to be like the steady,like make give someone keep keep not not
so much keep to yourself, butkeep keep a low profile. Just do
your job and you know, leteverything else play out around you. It's

(03:52):
just funny that you just said that, because that's literally what I That's what
I do. I just I showup, I do my job. I'm
doing it. You know, Ido what I have to do because if
you know me, you know Ilived my life by a set of rules.
And the first rule is that thereare no rules, and then the

(04:13):
second rule is sometimes you got todo it. So sometimes you just got
to do it. And you know, I have been around with AW since
its beginning, and I care alot about this place, almost as much
as the International Championship. Well actuallythey're probably equal, And you know,
I just did whatever I had todo. Now, when you first earned

(04:38):
this title March of twenty twenty three, it was going through a name change.
Used to be all Atlantic, nowit's International, and it was sort
of, I don't want to sayit was considered a lesser title, because
no title is a lesser title inany promotion, but it wasn't like on
the level let's say, obviously notthe world title, and even tn T

(04:59):
was a little ahead of it,and you kind of legitimized it immediately with
the Lutrosaurus match and then Shabbata matchlater on, you do you take a
little bit of did you want todo that, Like when you won this
title, did you say, look, I'm gonna I want this to be
a long, healthy reign with asmany defenses as possible to put this title
on the map, or did thatkind of just happen naturally. I think

(05:24):
it just kind of happened because,you know, and I the goal was
always to beat pack and Packards atthat time, the current All Atlantic champion,
and the belt was the championship wascreated with him in mind to have
it and defend it while he couldn'tget back in the country. You know,

(05:46):
then once we had it and andI beat him, and I had
it, and it's like it didn'treally have an identity anymore, you know,
it was just the Atlantic. Wedidn't really know what that was.
And in a previous life for iWTV Independent Wrestling, I was there champion
for a while and I just whenI had it, I did the same

(06:10):
thing. I'm just gonna defend itwhenever I have to, against whoever,
wherever, because that's what I believethe champion should do. And it just
obviously you never want to lose thechampionship, right you know, like I
never have a I never have anend. I never have an end in
mind. It just so happened Ihad it for as long as I did.

(06:30):
Uh. Speaking of that loss,have you recovered? That was quite
a beating you? Are you goodnow? We were back? Were back
in in one hundred percent? Orwill you? Is that where there's matches
where you're never quite one hundred percentwhen it's over. Yeah, I physically
I think I have recovered, andbut you know, that match was that
match was really the culmination of howevermany months I had the championship the first

(06:57):
time, and I feel like thatmatch, I don't know if I've recovered
mentally. I don't know if that'sthe thing that can happen. But I
don't know if my head's in theright space with this championship that I have
in now after that match, Soyou know, it's obviously John Mosley is

(07:21):
obviously still on my mind a lot, So that's fair. Yeah, imagine
that's one of those matches you justcan't put behind you, especially now that
you have the title back. BecauseI was a couple of friends watching it,
and man, the things that youwent through were admirable and scary at

(07:42):
the same time, so glad tosee that you're getting back there. Let's
talk about the opponents you faced duringthat first reign, A who's who basically
of the of a strong aw midcardwith some guests sprinkled in. Is there
a particular match from that reign thatyou are particularly you think back fondly on,
like whether it's the Forbidden Door matchor any of the other opponents that
you face in that time. Youknow, I never like, you know,

(08:09):
is it is bizarre that I havehad so many matches because I just
I don't like to wrestle, Sohaving all these matches, you know,
I don't like any of them,but I would. It was a it
was an honor to be in thering with Cassio Shabata. It's I still

(08:35):
can't wrap my head around the factthat he is wrestling he wrestling me,
and the fact that he is wrestlingnow and Jennifer. Obviously, the the
Wheeler Uta matches had a little placethat were a little more personal, and
I I've had some time to thinkback because people would ask me these questions

(08:56):
while it was going on and thenright when it ended, and I didn't
really have to reflect. Obviously,the John Mossley match is still in my
brain, but there is another personthat the match that I had with Swerve
Strickling, Yeah, is still it'sstill that that one. I'm I'm still

(09:18):
surprised I got out of that withthe championship because Swerve is I'm I'm very
scared of who he targets next.Yes, uh, he has just every
time he comes out, he continuesto impress me. I honestly thought he
would make a good next opponent forthe world title. And then the the

(09:43):
Hangman Page feud story. Here's somebodygoes after the world title and not me.
I hope he doesn't hear the showeither. Now that you've said that,
now that you have the belt again, you've you're you're starting to think
about who you may defend against.I know collision recently happened. You have
defense there? Who is on yourradar? Who is someone that you would

(10:05):
like to wrestle for that title thatmaybe you did the first time and you
want to do it again, oryou haven't yet and you would like to
challenge yourself with that particular match.I don't know how many defenses I had.
I think it was over thirty something, and there were some repeats in
there. I take I took alot of pride in defending the championship against

(10:35):
a wide variety of wrestlers, andour roster is so big and there's so
many talented people that I want tocontinue that trend. I think there are
there's more room for more people toget in the spotlight, and I think

(11:00):
that's what I was trying to dowith the championship in the the first run,
and I don't see why I shouldstop that now. Now, would
you would you prefer if? When? If? If slash when you are?
If you would you prefer to losethe title? It's a weird thing
to say prefer to lose the titlebecause you never want to lose the title,

(11:20):
But last time you lost it toan established name in John Moxley,
Would you maybe, perhaps next time, prefer to be bested, which again
is a weird question. I know, by perhaps an upcomer or like someone
that you could maybe thrust into aspotlight that might not already be in.
Does that make sense? Uh?Well, I yes, it makes sense.

(11:41):
But I obviously I don't want tolose it. I never want to
lose it, right, but Ito your point, and to what I
was just saying, I think it'simportant that I give opportunities to everybody,
right sure, sure established names ornon established names, or however you want
to say that anybody on the roster. This championship was really a Hey,

(12:07):
anybody, anybody on the roster canget a shot at this. And I'm
going to keep it that way.So whoever can make me submit, I
quit, or pull my shoulders downfor three they can have it. That's
hey, that's that's the perfect wayto think about it, honestly, and

(12:28):
so we're I'm going to leave thediscussion about the International Championship right there.
I just want to remind everyone Dynamiteis coming to the lee Acorus Center at
Temple University Wednesday night tonight. Ifyou're listening to this, it is lot.
This episode's going live that morning,so if you need something to do,
the Philly should not be playing,even if they go to Game seven.
We are recording this early. Idon't know what the Phillies have ultimately

(12:48):
done, but Wednesday night is freeand clear, So go go up to
a Leacorse Center and check out OnlyWrestling's Dynamite and Rampage as well. Should
be a great show always is whenthat be down. We should definitely say
that. Being in Philadelphia, theyhave announced a person Rob Dam. Yes
we'll be We'll be teaming with Hookand if you know, come on Philly.

(13:11):
Amazing. Rob van Dam is wrestlingin Philadelphia at that place. Every
seat should be filled. That isa great point. I forgot that they
mentioned that on Dynamite Wednesday, andI also forgot that I immediately texted the
two people that I'm going with that, So thank you for saving my butt
there. I do want to switchgears a little bit to something a little

(13:31):
less uh not serious, but alittle less a little more fun. This
is a video game themed podcast orshow, after all, So I'd like
to talk about your appearances on Allilad Arcade. Your you're a bit of
rivalry with Adam Cole over that championshipthat he's hurt obviously at the moment.
So you guysn't been able to redefendthat based on what I'm seeing, do

(13:52):
you? Is he ducking you?You think I don't know the champion?
I don't know. At last Isaw it was him that held it,
but that that's that was what threemonths ago that he lost it or that
he beat you for it. AndI haven't seen any title changes since.
I'm not sure that title really,you know, fell off once he got

(14:13):
it. That's fine, So that'sfine. So I'm still upset about I
mean, if you're talking about theJohn Moxley stuff this, you know,
Adam Cole, just that I can'twait for my remeasure that guy. Ultimately,
I think it's unfair that you hadto defend that title playing his favorite
game in Halo, Like that's allit's the problem is Halo won, you

(14:35):
know, on the on the originalXbox, the first ever Halo. That's
my game. And so I crushedhim in that. But then he and
I said, you know, Ithought I was pretty good at the newer
Halo, but I guess I'm not. But yeah, I want to beat
him at his own game. Hedressed up like Master Chief for a A

(15:00):
and an entrance. Can you imagineI beat him in Halo crush them?
That's true. I think I likehim too much to do that. I
don't know, I don't know.Uh yeah, I could see that,
but also too, I mean,you'd have two belts for you need a
bigger backpack. Then what would youdo I fit multiple belts in there before.
Oh good, Oh I've tried.Oh that's good. That's good to

(15:24):
know. So what Uh No,I don't know how much time you have
to do some casual gaming at themoment. But are you playing anything interesting
right now? Uh not? Yeah, you know, I dabble with what
I can. Uh there is ayou're gonna get an exclusive? This is
I don't think. I don't thinkanybody. Well, I don't know if

(15:46):
I mentioned this before, but Inever said it. There's a lot of
us in the aw locker room thatplay uh FIFA, but now it's e
A f C twenty four. Thanks, so we we all. Sometimes Evil
Uno will bring a Xbox or somethingin the locker room, put on the
screen and it gets heated, thoughtpack and I go at it in the

(16:11):
ring. You should see us somewhere. And Eddie Kingston he just won't shut
up what he plays. That actuallythat that segues very nicely into a question
I had written down for this interviewwhen we got to this section. Is
there like I've always heard stories ofyou know, locker rooms with a lot
of gamers bringing in consoles and stuff. Like that, and having these tournaments

(16:33):
sounds like that's happening in aw lockerrooms across the country and FIFA is the
chosen battleground. Honestly, not whatI would have expected, but now that
I think about it, there area lot of international talent. FIFA does
make a lot of sense. Allthose those UK kids they come over and
it's just it's the only thing.They won't shut up us. So I
had to learn how to play it, and then you know, I'm actually

(16:55):
pretty good at it. So who'syour club of choice? Uh well,
it's always full of It's always fullof okay, just in case that Tony's
listening, and I do I doactually use I do actually use full of
them. But uh yeah, that'spretty much. Yeah, yeah, I'll
go with that. Nothing from nothingbut full of mirror matches. When he

(17:18):
walks by, you have two screensjust in Casey pops in. I mean,
there was one time where we wereplaying. It was me and Eddie
and it was like during the COVIDera of stuff, where we just we
had to isolate us. You know, we had a we were all stuck
in a room together. Yeah,and you know, Tony did walk you

(17:38):
we were we were something. Itwas like an off day and Tony walked
and he looked and he goes,you're going with a four three three like
he was upset, like he likehe he wanted me to change the formation
and I did. I changed.Did it work? Yeah? That's awesome.
And if and as you said,if Tony listens to this, if

(17:59):
Tony listen to this, first ofall, whoa And secondly, hi,
Tony, interesting, FIFA or FCtwenty four. As you said, now
is the game of choice. Ithought for sure it might have been,
you know, like forever for alittle while speaking of well, the thing
that's that was the thing when wehad it in the that was when the
game came out. It was wewould all be ourselves and play each other

(18:22):
a lot. Like we played thatgame a lot. I was very fortunate
to play a lot of the buildsleading up to it. They because they
know I'm into it and that Igot to see all the versions and what
it is now and the game isjust it was. We would play for
hours. It was so much fun. It was really really great. Is
there a particular mode that you enjoyor things that you like? I love

(18:44):
the the side missed the side likemini game part of it. I didn't
think there was enough. I thinkthey could have built on it a little
more because I really did enjoy justthat, like at the homes. Yeah,
I think there were slowly releasing morelike they're they're doing something that I
like where it's like releasing it inpieces, especially like the they're gonna they're

(19:07):
gonna add on to what I shouldsay because I like that because I don't
want to have too many options tostart. I like with that homework plan.
So but yeah, every open game, yes, exactly, h rit
Baker and uh, she's not goodat the actual wrestling part of the game,
but she is really good at themini games, so she was the
one that we would play against totry to be that's cool. I haven't

(19:30):
jumped into the Battle Royale mode yeteither, just hadn't so much. It
is. It's great. It's great. Yeah, for those who don't know,
they added a thirty player stadium stampedeBattle Royale essentially, so you're running
all through this big football stadium,weapons, golf carts, all that stuff,
and the last person course there isa horse and the last person standing

(19:53):
wins. I hate, like Isaid, I haven't had a chance to
jump into that update yet, butit does sound very very cool. So
I guess I'll leave you with onemore question here. When I told my
daughter that I was doing this,she I don't. She watches a little
bit of wrestling, and she knowswho you are from your pockets, right.

(20:15):
But she also knows your good friendDan Housen, who is her favorite.
Loves the guy love he thinks he'sthe coolest in the world. How
is Dan Housen? I see hehas promos, he's finally making his return.
How's he doing. I have noidea. I haven't. I haven't
heard from him. He would justsend us DHS tapes and it's like we're

(20:37):
supposed to play these, and alot of the time it's just like it's
it's him saying hello, not figuringout saying hello, adjusting the camera a
lot. And he definitely recorded overold like it's like family Matters episodes.
And I have no idea. Ihave no idea. Yeah, oh,

(21:00):
we have to teach him the waysof the of the modern technology very very
soon. But Orange, I willlet you go there. Thank you very
much for taking time with me todrop by the current All Elite Wrestling International
Champion, Orange Cassidy, all ofAll Elite Wrestling will be at the Leakor
Center at Temple University Wednesday night tonight. If you're listening to this and you

(21:22):
haven't gotten tickets yet, you shouldhead over there watch you watch some great
wrestling. Rob Van dam as wasmentioned, will be in action teaming up
against Hook against the team to bedetermined as of this recording, but we'll
hopefully see what's going on there.Hopefully we'll see you there as well.
Orange, one of Philly's native sons, very much appreciate that jersey technically,

(21:42):
but we're not gonna hold that againstyou. Well yeah, you know,
hey, Yeah, Philly is avery special place to me, and I'm
very I'm very lucky to be hereand very lucky to be in this city.
It's really really great and I'm definitelygonna be there Wednesday for sure.
Look for him. Look for theman in the great shades and his hands

(22:03):
in his pockets. Orange, thankyou so much for your time. Good
luck to you. Thank you.I'm gonna go lay down appreciate it.
Coming up after the break, I'lltalk about where the heck I've been the
last two months. Thank you againto Orange Cassidy for coming onto the show
today. But after the break,where's Jason been stick around? Oh right,

(22:23):
Welcome back to Cheez Takes and Control. This episode number one thirty eight
talking now about you know, wherethe heck I've been for the last two
months, So it's real simple.Last episode I recorded was episode one thirty
seven, end of July early August, talk to Rick the Hotdo fire from

(22:45):
EVO about the upcoming EVO event atthe time that went off without a hitch.
Was a great episode I watched,I'm a great episode, a great
weekend of action from them. Iwatched the entire Sunday Finals, all four
games from the Sunday Finals from aplane from an airplane with Wi Fi,
and I did that on my wayto a place that I have never been

(23:08):
before and one that I was veryexcited to visit, and that was Tokyo,
Japan. I spent a week inAugust in Japan, Tokyo and Yokohama
as a guest of the Pokemon CompanyInternational talking about I'm Sorry, covering the

(23:29):
twenty twenty three Pokemon World Championships.We got to do a lot of very
cool and fun things while we wereout there, see the sites of Japan
cover the Pokemon World Championships, whichwere very very cool. It was a
trip I will never ever forget.Highlights for me was going to the Shibuya
Scramble Crossing with the Hachiko statue andgetting my hatch Co statue and getting my

(23:53):
picture taken there with the statue,and at the crossing itself. Getting to
go to San Kayenne I believe itwas called a Japanese garden do it an
official tea ceremony with a tea brewingmethod that's been used for over eight hundred
years apparently in the country of Japan. Very very good tea, and I

(24:15):
don't normally do tea. Tea icedor hot tends to make me gag a
little bit. Not sure why thatis, but it does tend to do
that. This green Macha tea thatthey served us at this little ceremony,
oh boy that I loved every secondof it, So that was very cool.
Got to go see a China townin Japan, which sounds strange,
especially given their history of tension,but this particular China town in Yokohama,

(24:40):
the biggest in Japan, I'm toldwas very very cool. Great shops,
great food, great you know,nice sites to see and pictures to take.
That was very cool. If youever in Yokohama, I would suggest
checking that out as well. Butthe World Championships themselves, three days of
action in the card game Scarlet andViolet Go and Pokemon Unite. I mentioned

(25:04):
at the top of the show thatthere will be two interviews and the third
segment from this event, and thatwill be with two of the biggest casters
of Pokemon Unite. That there areZoinks and Spraggles. We're going to talk
to them, and it's my interviewfrom that show. So it was right
after the Pokemon Unit Finals had takenplace, a bit of a time capsule

(25:26):
to two months ago. I doacknowledge that, but you can hear the
way that they speak about how thosetournaments went down, where they see the
competitive scene and Pokemon Unite going inthe future. Very very cool conversation that
I have with them. But allin all, I thought that the trip
to Japan was a dream come true, and I am forever grateful to the

(25:48):
folks that made that happen. Oneof the things that really struck me about
the entire trip was how much Pokemonhad taken over the city of Yokohama while
I was there. I you know, I've always as a kid, I've
gained my entire life, right,I've been playing video games since I was
three years old, thirty three yearsnow, and I've always wondered what it

(26:11):
would be like to have, youknow, mainstream society for lack of a
better term, except the games theway that I do now. That has
happened to a point with certain games, but nothing like what I saw with
Pokemon in Japan. That Pokemon tookthat city over, absolutely took it over,

(26:33):
particularly Yokohama where the actual World Championshipswas taking place. Perfect example,
there was a shopping mall that wewent to walking distance from our hotel,
and on the third floor of thisshopping mall, because they build vertically as
opposed to horizontally like the US mallsthat I've been into, the entire third

(26:56):
floor featured an art walk where youcould walk and look at art, you
know, little art installations as youwalk down the pathway. But each each
section of this art walk was aPokemon card blown up to you know,
be larger than human size, andit wasn't just the art either. If
it was just the art, thatwould make sense too, right, But

(27:18):
this was like the entire card framewith the art inside and the writing in
Japanese. It looked like they justtook an actual Pokemon card and blew it
up in photoshop and stuck it onthis display in this mall. And there
were dozens of them all throughout thisfacility. I found that to be marvelous.
In the center court of the shoppingmall there was a giant Pikachu balloon

(27:41):
and a massive Pikachu card on thefloor that you could take a picture of
from one of the top balconies.That was awesome. In another section of
the city there was a massive blowup Pikachu that you could take pictures with,
plus other statues scattered throughout the city. At one point, the company
had rented out an actual cruise shipand turned it into the SSN from Red

(28:04):
and Blue, complete with trash cansthat I could search quote unquote search for
items, with the most of themsaying there's nothing but trash here, and
the last one giving me a greatball. It was amazing how much Pokemon
was able to do in this cityfor this week, and the and the

(28:26):
and Pokemon thanked them in kind becausethat event was a rip roorn good time
with a lot of awesome stuff betweencard game competitions and the game itself and
Unite which was a very very excitingexperience. Again. We'll talk about that
more in segment number three. Ialso found some very interesting little side foible

(28:47):
of this event. Uh So,there's the actual main hall where everything's happening
the pacifica Yokohama in this case,and that's where all the tournaments are being
played and the free play and stufflike that, outside of the main comfort
hall, but still in the building, Like still inside a building was like
a seating areas, vending machines andstuff like that. Well, attendees from

(29:10):
of the Pokemon World Championships turned thesegeneral seating areas into massive market places or
like street vendor bizarre sort of thingswhere they had sleeves from sets, box
sets or elite trainer boxes for tradeplaymats. They weren't using any more cards,

(29:33):
both packs and individual single cards fortrade or purchase. On the down
low, you weren't allowed to purchasethem that money was prohibited, but some
people were doing it on the slybecause you know that's usually what happens in
these sorts of things. But Ifound the whole thing fascinating. I could
just walk through and it wasn't justlike recent modern Pokemon. Some of these

(29:56):
things went back as far as likethe black and white era, maybe even
a little further. I didn't reallysee much in terms of like the original
Pokemon cards of the late nineties thatI grew up with. That stuff would
probably not do well in this particularsituation because there's so many people and you
don't know where things are coming fromand who's passing by and what they might

(30:17):
be able to reach for. Ikind of understand that I didn't see much
of that, but just seeing thesepeople like bartering and exchanging and trading it
was super super cool. Also,going back to the cruise ship turned s
S and that they had situated onthe dock there in Yokohama, there was
a section entire floor where there weretables that you could sit at that said

(30:41):
let's play or let's trade. Theywould have a little sign and you could,
you know, switch them at willto whatever you wanted to do,
and it was all about trading cardgames. So if you put up the
let's trade sign and you had abinder, you could barter and talk about
trades with anybody that walked by.If you said let's play or let's battle,
you would battle in the card gameright then and there. One of

(31:02):
the folks that was on the tripwith me had a great battle with someone
they had never met before on thiscruise ship. If you go to IGN
and look for I think it's aConfessions of a Pokemaniac as the name of
the blog. Joshua Yell, whowas on the trip and this, wrote
a great seven part blog diary,like an open diary travel diary of our

(31:25):
trip. There. Everything he describedthere is what I got to do too.
For the most part, he gotto do a couple of things that
I didn't. But it's a veryvery good read if you want to see
what went down with American contingent.I don't know if they're ever going to
listen to this. If they do, great, If not, you know,
I completely understand we're all very busy, but I really have to give

(31:47):
a shout to the entire North AmericanPress contingent that was with me on this
journey. This was a big tripfor me. This was a lifelong dreams
sort of trip for me. Youknow what I'm saying. This was something
I've wanted to do since I wasa kid. And the fact that I
was able to do it, youknow, in this manner, in this

(32:09):
method, is not lost on me. And you know, being grateful for
it is not lost on me,I should say, And to be able
to do it with such a greatgroup of people, Casey and Joshua from
IGN, Cody from why Can't IRemember what psite? He writes for I'm
so sorry, Cody, But Cody, you're great too. I will remind

(32:30):
myself before I finished this statement.Christian from Comic Book, Eric from the
Gamer Alex, the PR person whowas in charge of all of us as
we were there. It was justa wonderful, wonderful time. It was
really a really screen rant. That'swhere Cody writes, you dummy, it's

(32:52):
screen rant. So yeah, Codyfrom screen rant, Joshua and Casey from
IGN, Christian from the Gamer,Eric from Uh sorry, Christian from Comic
Book, Eric from the Gamer Alexr PR person and me, that's seven
right once you see, Yes,everyone was awesome and I am I was

(33:14):
very fortunate that I got to meetthese people and spend some time with them
and and grow to appreciate them professionallyand personally. They were all very very
great people. We are now connectedin a discord uh server, just the
seven of us, you know,sharing things that remind us of the trip
or or you know, just kindof keeping connected. I've already actually done

(33:36):
some work with Casey at IGN,which is really cool too. And I
just really again, I don't knowif they're ever going to listen to this.
I don't know if they're ever goingto you know, come back into
the archives or what have you.But I really, I really am grateful
that these are the people that Igot to spend this trip with. I
was going with strangers, I wasgoing in completely blind. I knew one

(34:00):
of these people before the trip,and they really made the trip better for
me just through their camaraderie and they'rebeing friendly and they're they're essentially hanging out
with a kid from Philly who gotto go to Japan by himself for the
first time ever and really lived adream. So I've just feel very fortunate

(34:21):
and thankful. The group was sogood, and I hope that everybody gets
together again soon somehow, some way, since we're all spread out all over
the country and Canada, all overthe continent. Even I really liked it.
I really liked the group that Iwas with. It helped. It
definitely helped being in a strange countrywithout my family, left to my own

(34:43):
devices at certain times, just havingthese people to hang out with it was
a big thing. But on allafter that, after I got home from
Japan, I dumped jump straight intobig reviews. I have reviews for Stray
Gods, Starfield, Lord's The Fallen, most recently Mortal Kombat one, I
did see if Stars I did,and just really really building on the absolute

(35:07):
mad rush of games that twenty twentythree has been in general. I was
gonna do a segment at the endof the show about like where it does
twenty twenty three rank in the bestyears of gaming, and then save the
interviews at the end for next week. But I feel like I should wait
because there's a pretty big title comingout this week, and then there's other

(35:30):
stuff still coming out between now andthe end of the year, So I
feel like I'm gonna pump the brakeson that a little bit and come back
next week or the week after withthe where does twenty twenty three rank on
the scale of best years for videogames ever? Because it's definitely it's definitely
up there now. Whether it ranksup with two thousand and seven, ninety

(35:52):
eight, ninety nine, all theother years I think of, we'll determine
that in a future segment, butfor now, it's been a crazy year
for game that it's only getting crazierbetween now and the end of the year.
Very much looking forward to seeing whatelse comes out. I know there's
Alan Wait two this week. Laterthis week, I think Friday is when
that actually launches Super Mario RPG remake, which I don't think I've had a

(36:14):
chance to talk about on this podcastat all, but yeah, maybe a
little bit because it was announced.It was announced in June, I think,
so we might have had a chanceto talk about that since then.
But there you go. That's whatI've been up to. I went to
Japan, and I've reviewed a bunchof games, doing family stuff. The
Phillies playoff run which ended tonight.I've been paying attention to that, and

(36:35):
now I can refocus on the thingsthat make me happy, not the Phillies
this podcast being a huge one,and then we will go from there.
So that is where I've been thelast two months. If you've been wondering
why Chiese Takes the Controllers was onthe back burner. But we are back,
hopefully in a more regular schedule nowthat things are starting to calm down,
and we'll take you into the newyear. We'll do the Golden spatuel

(36:57):
As, we'll cover the game Awards, all that good stuff that we normally
do at the end of each year. Coming up after the break my interviews
from the Pokemon World champion twenty twentythree with Zoinkes and Spraggos talking about Pokemon
Unite, where that game's going,where that game is, and everything in
between. Stick around, all right, Welcome back to Chee Stacks and Controllers,

(37:21):
Episode number one hundred and thirty eight, Wrapping things up this week with
two fantastic interviews recorded live in personat the Pokemon World Championships in Yokohama,
Japan. Before we get into that, I do want to thank Orange Cassidy
for coming onto the show. AllElite Wrestling, Dynamite and Rampage hitting the
Leea Course Center at Temple University tonightseven thirty pm. First bell eight o'clock

(37:43):
is when the live show starts onTV. Feel tickets should still be available
now on the Lee Course Center website. Should go down there because one of
the biggest Japanese wrestlers in the worldat the moment was confirmed to be coming
to the leea Coorse Center on Saturdayat Collie in the day after I recorded
my interview with Orange Cassidy. Andif he was holding out on out on

(38:05):
me and I find out about it, I'm just gonna shake my finger at
him because he is a wrestler andhe will beat me up. So I
don't want to poke that bear ifI don't have to. Moving on now
to our final segment of the show, Spragels and Zoins, two of the
premiere casters for Pokemon Unite, satdown with me back at the Pokemon World
Championships, talk about how that tournamentended, talk about the future of the

(38:30):
the game at the time, andmore. We're gonna start with Spragels and
move on to Zoinks. So withoutfurther ado, here is Spragels, one
of the top Unite commentators in theworld. If you watched any Pokemon Unite
at this Pokemon Worlds, and ifyou haven't, you should go back and
watch the odds. You definitely heardthis man's dulcet tones telling you all of

(38:52):
the everything that's going on and explainingit in great detail. I'm sitting with
Spragels. Spragels, how are youhi? How are you? Can you?
Have you have? You've remember himthe whole time? Yeah, Hi,
I'm doing great. That's his realvoice, A peak behind the curtain,
hear. So let's talk about Worldsthis year twenty twenty three out here
in Yokohama, Japan. Honestly,this is my first experience, so I

(39:15):
have nothing to compare it to you'vebeen. This is not your first rodeo,
I am assuming. So how doyou think Yokohama rated as a host
for Worlds this year? Oh,it's amazing. I've been to two now,
so I've been to London and I'vebeen to Yokohama. London was insane.
The stage at London was insane,and it feels like Yokohama they have

(39:36):
just leveled up everything, And Imean, what would you expect. It's
the birthplace of Pokemon here in Japan, so of course everything is just nuts.
You've seen the stage. All ofthe games are up on this massive
stage. They have literal bridges thatyou can walk over. They have houses
that open up, cherry blossom trees. It's gorgeous and everything's been really here.

(40:00):
It's been amazing. Yeah, Iconcur one hundred percent. We got
to go explore that stage a littlebit on the morning of day two.
And the attention to detail, evenin like places that people can't see,
like behind that Unite desk is awhat's it Frey Coco hanging out back there
something like that. I love that. So speaking of Unite this year,

(40:20):
a lot of people coming in thoughtthis was Luminosity's tournament to win, and
then by the end they kind ofsaid, yeah, we know that too.
Talk to me about this team,how they were able to become so
dominant and run through this tournament theway they did. Yeah, it's impressive
what they did. I think,if you know, not to argue with
you a little bit here, butI would say Luminosity was probably looked at

(40:43):
as one of the top teams.But I don't know if everyone thought that
they were going to do that.Well, Okay, you know, last
year a lot of people thought thisteam is it, They're gonna make it
happen, and they really did.Especially for North America, we thought,
yeah, this team is far andaway the best. This year, Luminosity
was really tested throughout the entire region. There were so many good teams in

(41:06):
NA. There are so many goodteams across the world. There were favorite
teams for EU that people thought weregoing to be amazing. Brazil had one
of the best teams in the world, and then Japan. Everyone knew they
were going to show up. ButI mean they really showed up. Home
field advantage, home field advantage,and man, they're so aggressive. They
are just they play a really inyour face style of Pokemon Unite that clearly

(41:30):
some teams could not adjust to.That being said, yeah, Luminosity,
I would say they shocked the worldonce again, and specifically with how impressive
their victory was. It wasn't lastyear. I felt like they had some
really close games. This year,the games were further away. It was

(41:51):
more impressive of the victory. Luminosityplayed better than I've ever seen them play,
and they are the former world champs, so they've already won the whole
thing. They played even better thisyear. Yeah, look, no further
than Game three of the Grand Finals, perfect example. We it almost made
me think that they were toying withAbyssian there for a little bit. Yeah,

(42:12):
and then you know, just said, you know what, we gotta
go home. It's time, we'redone with this. They knew they had
a ten minute timer. They're like, we're gonna run this thing all the
way down to the ten minutes.But you're right, it felt like one
of those games where they were fullyin play mode. You know, they
were just enjoying this. It wasa victory lap. It was already over
in their minds. And Amal Abyssinianan amazing team, they played so well,

(42:35):
but I think they felt the sameway. I think they felt like
it was over Luminosity's beating us.Sure, so talk to me about the
differences in the meta and how themeta has grown throughout the two years in
Pokemon. You now, we've seensome Pokemon come in and just completely you
know, take over the game,where we have some others that sometimes come
in in a sneaky position, likeTalent Flame showed up out and there.

(42:57):
It didn't really do much, buthey, it was worth a shot,
right, So what talk to meabout like the consistent champions versus like a
new I'm sorry Pokemon, this isn'tthat game. We'll talk about that in
a minute, versus like a newone trying to come in. Like New
two came in and shattered things.Yeah, Mew two was massive, Zashian
was insane. Comfe came into thegame a little underpowered, and then they

(43:21):
buffed it after release and then thatthing was just nuts. That's essentially this
game's you mei ye. So that'sjust that was a huge factor throughout the
year. You know, as witha lot of MOBAs, newer characters,
Pokemon champions, gods. If youplay smikee, newer characters always come in
and I feel like you want themto be pretty powerful, and they sometimes

(43:43):
range to like, eh, kindof underwhelming to really really good. And
Unite had a year of really reallygood Pokemon and they also had the addition
of draft. So last year atthe World Championships there was no draft.
You could have an entire mirror matchupagainst your opponents, and really it was
down to figuring out what actually isthe meta and then basically, if this

(44:06):
is the meta, what can actuallylegitimately counter it while still being top tier
so last year you saw so manyof the same Pokemon. I would say
it was less interesting once people seemto kind of crack the code. This
year, so many different pokemons,so many different strategies. Even if we
had what you would often see aslike the top five Pokemon, only you

(44:28):
know, you can get a couplehere, a couple there, a ban
on each side, and then you'vegot to fill out your rosters with other
great Pokemon, but maybe not stier choice. So do you think the
draft ban system was a smart Obviouslya smart addition for if nothing else,
match variety abs absolutely for match variety. And also you see teams lose in

(44:49):
the draft screen. Like the strategyof the game, it gets more intense.
You can't just be really really goodwith Serena anymore. You know,
you have to have a deeper rosterthat you have to at least have two
three things that you can pivot toin case your number one choice is not
available for you. And then also, if you get really good on a

(45:09):
Pokemon, you're gonna start to gettarget banned or counter paid. They're gonna
start taking that away from you.So yeah, you have to be a
better player. You have to bea better team, and it's so much
better for the game. So let'smove a little bit to the way that
you approach commentating. So you havea pretty difficult job for someone who maybe

(45:29):
not be watching Pokemon Unite as oftenas you know people like us who travel
around the world to come see it. Do you try to tailor your commentary
as a balance between like Unite veteranswho know everything and maybe like the dad
who's watching with them or the momis watching with them. That is almost
exactly what I think if for me, a show would be the best show

(45:52):
possible if someone who knew nothing aboutthe game and someone who knew everything about
the game both really enjoyed it.So I try to strike that balance throughout
it, And most of the timeI'm providing the story for what's happening inside
of these matches, a little bitof analysis of what's going on, making
some dumb jokes that nobody seems toyell at before, so I guess I

(46:14):
get to keep baking them. AndI really do want the broadcast as best
as possible to be something that isaccessible for everyone. I want everyone to
be able to turn this on andget something from it. If it's you're
in beginner rank and you're just startingthe game. You can grab something and
if you're like me and you playedtwelve thousand games of Unite, you can

(46:37):
still go, oh, yes,that was actually a really amazing moment,
and it's great to notice that andcall that out. Yeah, that's awesome.
So you said you played twelve thousandgames of You Night. Who are
your top three? My top threeI believe right now it's I think Dodrillo
has surpassed them all. So Ithink it's Dodrillo. Then Greedn't And I'm
wondering if number three is either TalentFlame Lucar. It's like Talent Flamer Lucaro

(47:01):
from like when the game first cameout. I love both of them.
One that's really climbing up the list, that is Intellian. I was gonna
say, so one you'd like tolearn, Oh my gosh, I love
Intellian. It's such a good releaseit And then you know what, as
a Pokemon I do not like Intelian. I thought it was like it was
not my favorite starter. I'm abig water Pokemon fan. I was actually

(47:22):
disappointed when I saw the evolution.But then you bring it into Unite and
all of a sudden, I lovethis thing. Yeah, it's like my
favorite. Now. How do youfeel about the Quaxley line? I love
quest. I'm a huge I'm sucha huge Quaxley fan. Yeah, my
spirit animal. You've been bouncing aroundhere all weekend long. It's been great.
Yeah. So one last question foryou. If someone plays other mobives
like you said earlier, and wantto try and dabble in Unite, what

(47:45):
would be the one piece of adviceyou would give them as far as the
transition. I take it that thisis not quite as That's what I'm trying
to say here, not quite as, not intense, because it can be
intense maybe in depth. I feellike there's a lot, a lot easier
of an entry point, let's sayin this game that opposed to other mobives.
Would you agree with that? Yeah? I think so. I think

(48:06):
it's very intentional. They want thematches. You know, they're ten minute
long games, so that's very accessible. You don't have to sit down and
play an hour long match of Leagueor something like that, and you don't
have item buying inside of a match. You could you prep your Pokemon's kit
before a match, so you don'thave that level of complexity inside the game
either. I just said complexity whereand they said complexity, So you don't

(48:28):
have that inside the game either.But I think a lot of what Pokemon
Unite gives you then is more timeinside of a match to focus on the
macro and more time inside of amatch to focus on how to play your
Pokemon. Unlike some other mobives nocharacter yet maybe there's one that's kind of
weird. You know, every everyPokemon's a little different, but no character

(48:50):
has like mona system or anything likethat. Everything's based around fool down.
So as a new player, Iwould go in there and just recognize,
you know, they want you toplay, they want you to fight,
they want you to use your moves, be aggressive. And the game is
called Pokemon Unite for a reason,it's not called Pokemon. Everyone go their
own way and just kind of figureit out. When you are with your

(49:14):
team showing up to objectives which thegame clearly indicates like this, just hit
the map, break ways to juststay out there, go, get go,
get that, show up with yoursquad. I think moments like that
are what I would look towards ifyou're new into Pokemon Unite. Just be
with your team, head to theobjectives Pokemon Unite, and use your moves

(49:35):
because there's no real reason not to, like, get out there and fight.
Sure, I agree, Spragels,Thank you so much for your time.
Enjoy the rest of worlds and peoplespeak to you soon hopefully. Thanks
Bob, absolutely man. Thanks forhaving me cool. All right, there
you go. Thank you Spragels forcoming on to the show. Very much
appreciated. Looking forward to seeing moreof Pokemon Unite from you, my friend.
Moving on now to the second interviewof the segment, let's talk to

(49:58):
Zoincs. We're sticking with Pokemon Unite. You just hurt Spragels, But there
is another commentator whose voice is justas iconic calling it being called over these
intense matches, and I, franklyI like to say his name a lot
because it brings me back to atime of innocence, and I'm sure that's
why he picked it. This isZoikes. Zoikes. How are you pal?
I'm doing really good. Thanks forthat great intro. Yeah, I

(50:20):
like the name too. Yeah,I appreciate that. Appreciate the high praise
there. So Unite year two hasended. We have our second world champion
looks very similar to our first worldchampion, if I do, If I
do, say, were you expectingthat sort of dominant performance from them or
were you expecting them to be toptier in the mix but still tested?
Oh? Absolutely not expecting to seean LG. That was last year as

(50:42):
well. I mean, their firstyear run was extremely dominant as well,
barely dropping. I don't think theydropped the game in that one. They
did drop one this year, butI mean this forum was like unheard of,
completely unexpected from them after a seasonthat was rocky. But I mean,
if any team's gonna turn up onstage, it's this team. A
few specific players just tell are differentplayers when they're in front of a crowd.
Yeah. I with Spragel's too.I went back to the third match

(51:08):
of that Grand Finals. It seemedlike after watching that, it seemed like
in the first two they were justkind of like letting them have their fun
and then being like, all right, no time to go. That team's
basically had that in them all year, but it's been a bit of a
challenge. As Spragel was saying toget here, would you agree with it?
Yeah, I do agree with that. They still had an average placement
overall of third place at all thetournaments, and it's a very competitive region

(51:30):
in North America, so it's notlike they were having an awful season.
I think the biggest, you know, mark on their season was a not
making a top eight in one ofthe tournaments, getting knocked out at the
qualification rounds. I definitely had alot of people turning their heads with surprise.
But I mean after that, definitelycoming back up. It was just
tough for them to find that actualwin. But they did come away with

(51:51):
two Cups this entire year leading upto World so matching another team that also
got to sure, were there anyteams in this tournament as it played out
that's surprise? I know there werea few, like one local to Japan
MJK really impressed a lot of folks, and then the team from the Philippines
that played LG and the Grand Filesat Omo Abyssinian. I keep getting that

(52:12):
wrong. There's a lot of syllablesin that is a lot more than it
seems like there should be. Butwere there any teams that stuck out to
you as like, hey, we'regoing to be seeing these guys for a
long time to come. Oh interesting, Okay. One the biggest surprise to
me is Team Act Jill from Korea. Oka. Korea as a region is
actually extremely small. In bookem onyou unit, it's one of our smallest
regions represented and therefore definitely gets kindof looked past by a lot of teams

(52:35):
leading up into it. And well, there's a couple of players that performed
very well in the world stage lastyear at s Foyl and Shobo, and
they're on that team again and actuallyhad in a crazy tournament, knocked out
a tournament favorite from North America andAlmatarasu in the group stage, and then
had a great bracket run, wenton at fifth, sixth. But still
that was a big surprise for me. Yeah. Now, conversely, was
there a team that you thought mighthave performed a little bit better than they

(52:57):
did? And what do you attributeto their I don't want to say subpar,
but maybe like the tournament turning outnot the way they expected. Well,
I mean, I'm sure Spregel's alreadybrought up tally Boba believers that European
team. I mean, they werethe favorites to win the tournament on paper,
but having such a tough group thatwas that was a tough one to
move into. Honestly, I thinkanother European team I'm gonna bring up is

(53:20):
Nouns Esports. They were the runnerups last year at Worlds. They also
had a very tough group, andI mean in their group was Omo Abyssinian
as well, so that team obviouslyhaving an amazing tournament run. But yeah,
Nowns Esports, I think a lotof people expected a bit more from
them, and I mean it evencame down to a match that neither one
of the teams making it out ofthe group were playing in, and depending

(53:40):
on what team won is what teammade it out of the group. So
Nowns Esports definitely, I think wecould have seen more from them this tournament.
A few unfortunate performances, and Idon't think they're done though. I
think in next year they're definitely gonnabe coming back with a venge. Sure.
Sure. Now we're also were talkingabout the match band I'm sorry,
the band draft that was put inthis year. We talked about how it's

(54:02):
a benefit to match variety and there'ssome strategic elements there. What did do
you would you say that it's aboon to United esports and what's specifically about
it do you like the most.Oh, it's incredible. I mean it
feels like we're actually on the esportsstage now like with everybody else. It's
an amazing thing. There is apart of me, I know, you
cover overwatched a bunch that. Likeback in the day when when Mirro comps
and stuff like that, we're justkind of picked all the time. It

(54:24):
was like, Hey, what teamhas the better skill in this situation?
But draft just really sets this gameapart. Having another layer of strategy preparation
becomes that much more important to understandyour tea, other opponents' strategies and kind
of their tendencies. It's pretty big. Even Luminosity was talking about an interview
about how they were studying not evennot only what pokemon are picked, but

(54:45):
the order in which they are pickedso they can try to make other teams
uncomfortable. So it's been huge,So just in that it's been able to
have good teams have more skill expression, and I think because of Draft face
we're actually seeing just more competitive teamsat the top consistently. We're having a
lot better results that way, andthe whole Like, yeah, the powerhouses
in each region are starting to reallyshow themselves and cement themselves at the top

(55:07):
of the of the chain. Thatmakes sense, So let me get you
out of here on this one's easyone. Two easy ones actually. First
of all, who are your topthree in unit? I imagine you play
just as much as you guess whoare Who are your top three most chosen?
If I was playing against you,who am I drafting to make sure
that you don't get them? Well, one, we need to add draft
a rank, so hopefully that happens. Hope that happens. But if I'm

(55:30):
most played was definitely Snorlax when thegame released, I was a one trick
Snorlax to relate that pokemon, butrecently it has all been Chandler and Gudra.
I have a love in those twopokemon right now? Is there one
you'd like to try and start learning? Like one that's whether just released or
or don't say YouTube can't same youtwonever but like or one that evnt had

(55:51):
a chance to really dig into.Well, not for lack of trying with
my talent, definitely having a toughtime. But every time I watch Overlord,
I just want to play Sorarc sobad. I mean watching that Pokemon
on stage is just ridiculous. AndI mean having these teams have a chance
to prove how good and how highof a skill ceiling it is on a
world stage is amazing. So zorArc for sure, but I mean maybe

(56:12):
my eyes are a little too highon that prize. When I'm looking at
Overlord playing that boe, you havea feeling that's gonna take a lot of
preparation. And then finally, thecity of Yokohama. Have you been to
Japan before? No, first time? First time? How did you?
How do you feel it serve itspurpose as the host of Worlds this year
compared to London or any other worldsthat you've been previously? Pretty incredible?
I mean Pokemon pulls out all thestops this time. And actually, I

(56:34):
think today was my first time toreally soak in how much it means to
be in Japan, just because Iwas so involved with the event the last
two days. But today I wasable to go to a park that was
all Pokemon theme but tried magic carpfishing. I mean, there's the ss
han is like out on the water, but this place is so cool.
I mean, this happens in everyworld, but I think this one in
particular it's surprising because how big anevent it is and how wide and spread

(56:57):
out it is. However, theattention to detail and just the are incredible,
credible. Well, it's so coolto see. I agree with that
one hundred percent of zoinks. Thankyou so much for your time. Pokemon
Unite coming back strong. You betterwatch every single match this upcoming season.
You're gonna hear that voice. Andif you haven't watched Worlds yet, please
go back and watch the odds thematches are incredible. Zoints. Thank you
so much for your time. Thankyou, and there you have it.

(57:19):
Spraygels and Zoints talking Pokemon Unite atthe Pokemon World Championships from a couple of
months ago. I do like watchingthat game a lot. It was one
of the more entertaining games at theentire event. They hea you have a
chance to dip into it. Yetit's on your phone, it's on your
tablet, and it's on your switchand it's free to play, so you
can definitely jump in and start enjoyingit at your leisure. But with that,

(57:39):
that is the end of episode numberone hundred and thirty eight of the
Chief Takes the ConTroll Horse podcast,presented as always by Fox Pho The Gambler,
Philadelphia, one of two point fiveFM fourteen eighty AM. I Heart
Radio. Wherever you get your podcastsis where you can hear this voice.
As I say every single time Irecord an episode, if you are listening
to this part, that means we'vegotten to the end, and I appreciate

(58:00):
you for doing so. Means alot to me that you would spend some
time with me, even after mylong unintended hiatus. But I am back
in the saddle, baby, andI am ready to talk about video games,
E sports and anything else that comesup between now and you know,
the next unintended hiatus that I mighttake. I just need life to slow
down for a little bit. Iwould very much appreciate that, indeed,

(58:22):
But thank you for listening. Asalways, I always, like I said,
appreciate that you are here. Ihope you have a fantastic weekend.
I hope you have an even betterweek right behind it. And we will
back me back next week with moreof the latest and greatest video games on
Cheese, Steaks and Controllers. Seeyou later clearly out of practice with that

(59:00):
catchphrase at the end. There