Episode 140 - Black Tabby Games, Zelda Movie, And Game Awards Nominee Predictions

This week, Jason speaks with Tony Arias and Abby Howard of Black Tabby Games about their new hit Slay The Princess! He then gives his thoughts on the Legend Of Zelda live-action film announced this week, before ending with predictions for the Game Awards nominee announcement coming next week.

Episode Transcript

(00:26):
Hello, and welcome to episode numberone forty of the Chief Stations and Controllers
podcast presented by Fox PHL The Gambler, one of two point five FM fourteen
eighty AM Philadelphia plus all streaming servicesare where you can hear this podcast.
My name is Jason Finelli and Iam the esports and video games dude at
Fox PHL The Gambler. That's anofficial title. By the way. Thank

(00:49):
you for listening to episode one fourtoday. I got a good one for
you. We're going to talk toBlack Tabby Games. They're indie Darling Slay
the Princess that's going erring some ravereviews in this spooky Halloween season, so
we'll post Halloween season, I suppose. So we'll talk to them about their
success of their game and where theidea came from. Great interview, Very
excited for you to hear all ofthat. Then we'll get into the big

(01:12):
news of the week, one ofthe big news items of the week,
and that is the announcement of theLegend of Zelda Live Action movie. Miam
Mooto and Avio Rod getting together todo something there. We'll talk about that,
and then finally we'll try and choosesome Game Awards nominees. Those will
be coming live on Monday the thirteenth, and I have a couple of thoughts

(01:33):
as to what I would like tosee from the show this year, and
I'll try to predict the Game ofthe Year nominees, but this particular year,
I think that's going to prove prettydifficult. But before any of that,
we're gonna do something we haven't donefor a long time here on Cheese,
Daks and chief Stakes and Controllers,and that's our news segment. I
haven't had to do this. Ihaven't done this in a while just because

(01:56):
there hasn't been, you know,a lot of rapid fire news. So
I thought that I could be ableto do. But this week was an
absolute banger. And there's some thingshere that I am not going to talk
about. So without further ado,let's get into the six in sixty seconds
Grand Theft Auto six first trailer willbe shown in December as Rockstar finally breaks

(02:20):
its silence via social media, eamBierware celebrate N seven Day, the annual
Mass Effects celebration, by slow dripfeeding its fans a thirty second teaser of
what seems to be a new specterfrom the upcoming game. Sony is cutting
the number of PlayStation Live services gamesit aims to launch in half by March
twenty twenty six, going from twelveto six. The Steam Deck Oled was

(02:45):
announced by Valve for the better screen, better battery life, and more new
features. Spider Man two sells fivemillion copies in eleven days to become the
fastest selling PlayStation game of all time, and Braid Anniversary Edition, which was
first announced in twenty twenty before goingradio silent, is set for a April
thirtieth, twenty twenty four launch.Those are your six in sixty seconds?

(03:13):
All right? Yes, our firstguest on Chief Stakes AUVT Controllers Episode number
one forty this week. Coming tothat realization as I'm giving this intro,
that's the first thing I'm recording thisweek, So that's pretty cool. Indie
games are a big part of theexperience right now. If you're not playing
indie games alongside your Triple A titles, what are you doing? You're missing
out on a lot of great experiences, not the least of which one of

(03:35):
the hot new titles on the sceneright now, just in time for Halloween
two, A spooky game called Slaythe Princess and the athlete named Black Tabby
Games are here to talk about thisgame and the success that it has seen
so far. We have Tony Ariusand Abby Howard. How are you guys
today? Great? Right, Yeah, happy to hear this game. I

(03:58):
remember seeing this first Packs East thispast year. Did not get a chance
to play the demo myself was gettingpulled in forty million directions, but the
crowd seemed to be very substantial everytime I walked by your booth. Is
that when you first had the ideathat hey, maybe we're maybe we're onto
something here. That was the firsttime it felt real. So to talk

(04:21):
a little bit about our studio andhow we got started. We started work
on our first game in March oftwenty twenty, so like right when everything
shut down, which meant that thatthat Packs that we were all at was
the first time, after three yearsof work that we actually got to be

(04:42):
in person around other people playing ourstuff. So we have another title called
Scarlett Hollow. It's an ongoing episodichorror visual novel kind of similar in some
ways to Slay the Princess, butmuch more of a slow burn, and
that that's also gotten a pretty goodreception. The original announcement and demo for
The Princess got a great reception,But there's like this abstract component of it

(05:05):
where you just see numbers on socialmedia platforms or on your back end on
Steam. And there was something verypalpable about that show cool cool, Yeah,
and if he dadd to that abbyhe said it all. Yeah,

(05:26):
So talk to me about the majorLike you said, there's this is more
of a single isolated experience as opposedto Scarlett Hollow's more episodic. You continue
to build on that story. Talkto me about the differences in making those
two types of games and specifically doingit concurrently, Like do you find yourself
having ideas that could fit in eitherone and you have to choose, like,

(05:46):
oh, maybe this little story piececould go in this game, or
or something about like how we meetthe Princess over here might work in Scarlett
Hollow too, Like how do youdiscern or do you just have like a
clear vision for each of those twotitles? That makes sense, they're very
different games. I'd say we definitelyhave like a clear vision for each one,
and they're like Slay the princesses sofar outside of reality versus Slay the

(06:11):
Princess, which is quite grounded andhas like really complex characters versus this one
where you add the complexity ten charactersas you go. So yeah, ideas
for one would not work for theother. However, I will say that
I think the skills that we've gainedfrom having to write complicated stories overall like
just kind of builds on itself.So Scarlett Hollow helped us gain the skills

(06:35):
we needed to write Slay the Princess, which is now making Scarlet Hollow better.
So right, Yeah, it's afeedback loop where I feel like the
fourth episode of Scarlet Hollow benefited tremendouslyfrom the work we did on the first
demo for Slay the Princess, andthen say the Princess benefited tremendously from the
work on the fourth episode of ScarlettHollow, and ideally the fifth episode of

(06:57):
Scarlett Hollow will turn benefit and youknow, it goes on forever. I
started a conversation with Tony about aseven episode five and was like, I
can now write this complicated character inthe way that we wanted to because we
have had to deal with slay thePrincess h which is so complicated. Yeah,
there is a lot to take inwith this game. And I think
what really drew me in when Ifirst started researching this was it seems so

(07:23):
simple on the surface. It basicallygives you everything you have to do in
the first couple of minutes, goslay the princess or don't. Whatever you
decide to do is going to havean impact, and then it continues to
build from there. When you werefirst concocting this idea for slay the Princess,
was that like kind of turning thewhole princess rescue thing on its head.

(07:45):
Is that where that came from?Because normally you saved the princess.
Here, obviously you're slaying the princess. So what walk me through this sort
of like conceptual phase of this gameand how it got to where it is
now? Sure the princess part camepart way through the process. The original
starting point was brainstorming ideas that wouldbe easier to talk about and less complicated

(08:09):
than Scarlet Hollow. Like, oneof the issues that we've run into with,
you know, talking about Scarlett Hollowand marketing the game is it's It's
one of those things where you needlike two paragraphs to sell it, and
those paragraphs are just like adding plotdetails and adding plot details details, so
like, what's something where we canget it in a single line. The

(08:31):
initial premise didn't have a fantasy componentat all. It was you know,
you are sent to execute a prisonerwho is an actuality, like a supernatural
entity that takes on the form thatothers believe she would have. Abby was

(08:52):
the one who thought that Save thePrincess would be fun, like a title
a character locked away that power justspraying to mind. So yeah, Sleigh,
it sounds similar to save And therewas nothing on Google. Yah.
It was just like, wow,this is a very title. So I

(09:16):
find the most interesting part of thisgame the loop. We've been talking about
going back and doing the same thingsover and over again. How challenging was
it? Because I've played the gameslike this before where you start eventually it's
a very cyclical gameplay loop. Howdifficult is it? Would you say to
keep each loop interesting enough to keepthe player going because you want to advance

(09:41):
the story, but you don't wantto do it so much that like one
loop could add all of this narrativeat once, but you also don't want
to make the more soul. Idon't think small enough that they're they don't
feel like they're doing anything. Sowhere's that balance when you're trying to devise
how many loops you're going to gothrough and what you're going to add with
each one. I think something thathelps with this game is that each loop

(10:03):
is a self contained story in aself contained environment. Right, It's like
you're not just going through the exactsame scenario, but it's a different twist
on it every time that has thesame premise. So I'm going to assume
if you haven't played the game yet, stop listening to the podcast to play
it, and then come back andlisten to the rest of it. Yes,

(10:24):
so this is like we won't gosuper deep into spoilers, but we'll
go a little deep. Yeah.So, right, Like, the princess
changes what she is based on whatyou perceive her to be and is a
representation of your growing relationship. So, like, to give an example,

(10:46):
you go through chapter one and thenyou wind up fighting each other to the
death and mutually killing each other.That leads into a chapter two where she
now takes on this form called theadversary, which is the big buff demon
woman who really wants to fight you. And one of the things that's also
different in this game is we haveone character who is unaware of any looping,

(11:09):
but every other character, including theprincess, is aware of it.
So we're able to build on yourpast relationship with her. And then each
of these these side stories is theself contained narrative you know about your love
or your relationship with this character,but under the lens of what those first

(11:31):
impressions were. So are you combativebut equals? Are you both trying to
betray each other? Did you spendthe entire game at the beginning thinking that
she's a damsel in distress? Youwant to add things? Yeah, they're
just very different. So and thenof course the fact that the story ends

(11:52):
where it's supposed to end. Soif a story just reaches a logical conclusion
of and then from there and ournews story would have to start, that's
where it ends, right. Thatis kind of how that works for us,
because of course there's a story outsideof the story that we're also where
it goes back into that. Soit was a pretty interesting flow to design.

(12:16):
Yeah, oh yeah, I wasabout to say, dislike, it's
one of those things that I thinkcomparing our two games, Scarlett Hollow has
very much been about examining as writers, like the depth of player choice.
It's extremely long, the first fourepisodes or six hundred thousand words of writing.

(12:37):
Wow. Yeah, like some someoffhand remark that you might have said
an episode one might completely change somethingin episode three, which will in turn
completely change something in episode four,whereas INSI the Princess. Something that was
great about the simplicity of the premiseis we could examine the breadth of choice.

(13:00):
So like, here's the scenario.It's straightforward, so we can map
almost everything that someone would want todo there, and then we can explore
that to its logical conclusion, andif there's a subconclusion there, we can
explore that instead of unfinished business withher, the business continues exactly interesting,

(13:20):
whereas in our other game, it'slike there the branching branches out and it
comes back together, and there's allof these different things in the main through
line that change based off of yourdecisions, but the main through line remains
more linear because we want the depthof that cascade. Okay, that makes

(13:41):
sense. Yeah. Cool. Nextquestion here was this always was Slay the
Princess always designed as horror as ahorror title? Were you going in knowing
that you wanted this to be horror? Because I feel like, yes,
you're Slaying the Princess, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean it has to go into
the horror element. Uh. Definitelylends itself very well to it. But
I'm curious if this was always meantto be a scary game or if that

(14:07):
sort of presented itself further on indevelopment, Like how the Slay the Princess
idea did? That's a very Abbyquestion. Yeah, Sony came to me
with much more of a humor andromance game. That's the art, and

(14:28):
of course I got my little hooksinto it as well in other ways.
So yeah, it quickly became amix that became a lot more unsettling as
it went. Abby has been likea horror graphic novelist for the past decade
on top of our game's work,so it leads into everything. I'm happy

(14:48):
to go along on that ride.I also very much like horror, but
I think something that's special about ourstudio is the way we pull each other
into directions and the blending of thosethings. And there are even some horror
elements in the game that are notthings that I necessarily like. They are

(15:09):
in My Strong Suit, where Tonycame in and would give me a huge
paragraph that was a beautiful poem aboutlife and death and unending sorrow, and
then it was just like, nowdrop pictures to go with this. I
like the abstract existential. For yeah, I am the visceral. If you
need somebody swallowed alive and dissolved anacid, I got you. I can

(15:31):
absolutely do that, no problem.I'll love every second of it. But
yeah, try to figure out howto represent an abstract concept like that when
dealing with characters that are so faroutside of the real world and like sets
of symbols that I'm used to workingwith. That was the hardest part of
the game for me. They dida great job with that, thank you,
thank you. Based on the criticalreception, I would agree with that.

(15:54):
Now, one more question before weget into those reviews. Do you
ever find that those two ideas ofhorror would clash like if there was What
I mean by that is that therewas one scenario where Tony thought it would
be better this way, but thenyou Abby thought it would be better this
way. Now I'm if I'm assumingwhat goes on since Abby, you seem

(16:15):
to be the visceral, Like that'sa little more scary to me, I
think than being like the psychological person. So I wonder if Tony was just
like, yeah, I don't wantto know the depths of your imagination.
You could do what you want,just out to scar people for life.
But were there like times where youcould have gone either way and you had
to make a decision which way togo, or did each idea sort of

(16:38):
present itself as okay, this makesmore senses, more of a like a
slower psychological thing as opposed to thein your face sort of horror. I
think it's more the latter. Ithink it was definitely each given princess like
just felt sort of like they wouldnot touch the visceral versus they just want
to talk you into feeling really bad. Yeah, I mean, I think

(17:00):
also part of it is there's astudio we try and include every good idea
that we have, Like like there'sthere's a couple things that we pride ourselves
on, and that's we're very goodat cutting ideas that aren't working, and
we will always put in the extralegwork if we have an idea that we'd

(17:22):
really like to find a way toput it in the final cut. There
were entire separate chapters that we're notin the original draft of this game.
But I think that was usually youwho were like, it was like,
I want you should have a chapterwhere this happens that I was like,

(17:47):
and we still got the game outbefore Halloween, so it's all, yeah,
I imagine that was a big targetfor you guys. It's a big
target. Yeah, not only youknow, is it a horror based title,
but the name like Black Tabby Gamesjust makes perfect sense this time.
Yeah, you definitely nailed that.And like I said, critical reception has
been great. What were you wherewere you going? What were you expecting
going into launch last week or twentythird I think was your actual release state

(18:11):
of Memory service were you anticipating?Like when do you guys kind of like,
and I guess it's a general developerquestion. Do you sort of like
have an idea in your head whereyou think, like the metacritic is going
to be and then it either goesone way or the other, or did
you have some sort of hope orexpectation and what did the eventual outcome do,

(18:36):
Did it exceed it? How fardid it exceed it? That sort
of thing. I'll start by saying, I'm just happy that there is a
Metacritic score. Scarlett Hollows would said, I got three out of four reviews
for years now. Oh man,it's an early access, I get it.
I think this one definitely exceeded ourexpectations. This was a scenario where

(19:00):
we were very, very happy withthe end product. There weren't a lot
of tweaks that we would have wantedto make to it, but it was
also something that felt like it wouldbe a little more hit or miss.
There's a lot of areas where wegive people a lot of creative freedom with
their decision making within the narrative,and when you let people assemble their own

(19:22):
stories based off of their choices,that you always run the risk of some
people stumbling their way into what forthem is an unsatisfying ending. We've put
a lot of effort into making sureevery single ending in the game, like
thematically ties everything together across all ofthese combinations of playthroughs. But it's still

(19:45):
hard and it's going again to Ithink hit really well with some people and
not with others. Apparently it mostlyjust hit really well with most people,
which is a very pleasant surprise.Yes, especially in a year like this
which has been loaded with top titlesto see. I think Open Critic is
what I normally go on before wejoined on here. It was eighty nine

(20:10):
I think out of nine or tenreviews. That's fantastic. Easily going to
be remembered as one of the bestindie games of the year for sure,
and for some ken I imagine itcame completely out of left field, right
Do you think you really found away to get to people who maybe horror
fans but didn't even know about thisgame until they saw it at the top
of the Steam charts. Did yousee any of that sort of activity As

(20:32):
the game is launched, it definitelyconverted really well. Like I think the
general expectation is on week one youwill convert like ten to twenty percent of
your launch wish lists into sales.Those aren't even like direct conversions. That
has multiply your launch wish lists bypoint one, and that's how many units

(20:53):
you'll move. And I think bythe end of week one we'd moved like
sixty percent. Switch is excellent,so amazing word of mouth there. I
think, gosh, it's hard totell exactly where a lot of it came
from. It was definitely something thatclicked with a lot of content creators,

(21:14):
especially in the lead up to Halloween. I think something that we've managed to
successfully navigate as a studio that alot of other narrative focused studios haven't is
this common death sentence where it's like, if your game doesn't have enough breadth
to its branching and its experiences,someone will watch a playthrough and even if

(21:37):
they really like it, like that'sit. They have their experience with a
game. And I think in bothof our titles, there's enough self expression
in the decisions, and there's enoughinstances where somebody starts to wonder, oh,
but he picked something I didn't wantto pick, or she went on

(21:59):
this other path like what would whatwould I do? And then they pick
it up. So like I know, back when we were getting our start,
when we would run like regular surveysof our community, like fifteen percent
of the people who had found ScarlettHollow came directly from watching Gaps Molders play
it for like, say, thePrincess is like ten percent of them come

(22:19):
from Manly ratas hero in some capacity. So that was the thing that worked
out really well for us, andthen the seasonality just kind of set things
on fire. Do you have thoughtson this? I'm just very happy that
people are enjoying it. Yes,yes, sorry, I keep turning to
you being like you have thoughts.That's fine, that's excellent. And I

(22:42):
always love seeing I always love whena studio I had not heard of,
whether it's their first or second orfourth game or their third, great counting,
it comes out of the right fieldand just surprises me, and this
one really did. I'm finally goingto sit down and have a chance to
play with it now that I'm donereviewing forty million games that it's time make
sure Slay the Princess is on yourradar. If you're listening to this and

(23:03):
you have not played it yet,we barely scratch the surface of what this
game offers. If you like horror, if you like a good story,
if you like a little meta narrativein there too, Slay the Princess is
what you should be looking at.Black Tabby Games, Tony Arius and Abby
Howard here joining me. Thank youso much for your time. I'll let
you get back to it, andI look forward to seeing what is next

(23:25):
from you. More scarlet Hollow perhaps, and maybe who knows, we'll see
what you scary people can cook up. Thank you very much for your time.
Appreciate it. Yeah, of course, thanks, thank you so much.
Coming up after the break, we'lldive into the legend of Zelva live
action movie. Couple of things I'dlike to talk about, including how you

(23:45):
get around that whole Link doesn't talkbusiness. Stick around all right, Welcome
back to the Chief Sticks and Controllers, episode number one forty. Thank you
again to Black Tabby Games for comingon to the show and talking about Slay
the Prince. Horror not usually mything, but after playing Allen Wake two
this year, I think I mightbe getting back into it here. Maybe

(24:07):
I'll give Slay the Princess to try, finally say, we're nice enough to
come on to talk about it,and I can let the game scare the
crap out of me in the nearfuture. But let's move on to our
second topic of the show, andthat is Link's hitting the movies, y'all.
The legend of Zelda will have alive action game movie excuse me coming

(24:30):
at some point. They didn't reallyannounce the time frame for it. Nintendo
of America's Twitter account was the firstplace that I saw it. They were
going to be making a live actionfilm with Avio Rod, who has also
made a couple was pretty big inthe movie world. I would say.

(24:51):
The full statement reads as follows,I'm going to bring that up here right
for you while we are talking aboutit. Nintendo Company Limited Headquarters, Miami,
Minami ku Kyoto President Shutara Shantaro Fuukarais pleased to announce that it has
been begun planning and developing a liveaction movie based on the legend of Zelda.

(25:11):
The film will be produced jointly byShigero Miamoto, Nintendo representative director and
fellow and Avi Rod, president ofA Rod Productions, Inc. Who has
produced numerous blockbuster films. The filmwill be produced by Nintendo and our Rod
Productions, Inc. And directed byWes Ball. Additionally, Nintendo will finance
over fifty percent of the film's productioncosts, and so Many Pictures Entertainment Incorporated

(25:33):
will be responsible for worldwide distribution andco financing by working on visualizing Nintendo ip
ourselves. Nintendo is creating an opportunityfor people around the world to experience the
world of entertainment that Nintendo has cultivatedthrough a root other than dedicated game consoles
in this project as well, withthe goal of bringing smiles to everyone's faces
through entertainment cool, Nintendo itself willbe deeply involved in the production of the

(25:56):
movie, creating entertainment that is uniqueto Nintendo and bringing smiles to as many
people as possible. We will continueour efforts to do this. So west
Ball is at the forefront of thismovie. If you are not familiar with
west Ball, he directed the MayzeRunner trilogy, Kingdom of the Planet of
the Apes and a few other filmsare the big ones on his resume,

(26:21):
but it's gonna be a massive undertakingfor him. A lot of pressure comes
with making a Legend of Zelda movie, particularly a live action one, so
we'll have to see what he comesup with here. Now, there has
already been speculation as to who's gonnaplay who in this movie. Tom Howland
is Link was the first name thatcame to mind, which I find to

(26:42):
be a little silly, but hey, it's not the worst idea I've ever
heard. An actress was asked howshe would feel about playing Zelda if given
the chance. Her name eludes meat the moment, but she was asked
on the red carpet. She waslike, hey, how would you feel
about playing Elda? And she waslike, yeah, that would be awesome.
It was sorry. Hunter Schaeffer fromEuphoria was asked about fans casting her

(27:06):
as Zelda, and she was allabout it, because, of course you'd
be all about it. The iconic, the name role in an iconic franchise
making its transition to the to thelive action screen for the first time.
Of course you'd be excited about it. That's quite a payday. Heck,
I'd be excited to play I don'tknow a Goron just because I'd be in
a Zelda movie. I don't knowwhat else that would be qualified to play,

(27:29):
to be completely honest, just basedon appearance alone. But I want
to talk. I don't want toget into casting. I don't want to
get into who's going to play who? As I said on Game Mess Mornings
with Jeff grow but the only choicefor Link is Billy Crystal Us. So
I don't really want to get intoall that because I don't know, I
don't know enough right now about who'shot in Hollywood, who would be able

(27:52):
to pull off a role that ispotentially silent. I'm not quite sure.
But I did have an idea aboutthe story of this film. Now,
this is not something they're going todo, and it's gonna say this flat
out, this is not going tohappen. And I say this because the
idea, the more I think aboutit, is not really first movie in

(28:18):
this franchise fodder. Right, thereis a way to, like, you
know, introduce the franchise to thesilver screen and then maybe do this in
the future. But if there's onething in the Zelda franchise that has never
been fully explored, that is theorigin or the background of Gannendorf. Right,

(28:44):
Like, in every game he's everin, he's just already there.
Since his debut and Akarina of Time, he just is already the Grudo king.
He's already the you know, allyou know about him is he was
the first male born to the allfemale Garudo tribe in one hundred years,
and it makes automatically makes him theirking, and he acts accordingly. But

(29:04):
I feel like there is ripe storytellingopportunity in fleshing out, like clearly there
was time between when he was bornand when we first see him in Okarina
of Time. Why not develop thatstory a little bit. Why not flesh
out his upbringing? Maybe he wasAnd the idea I had when I first

(29:26):
thought of this was you, he'snot born inherently evil, Gadandorf, the
human Gavindorf the person, is notborn inherently evil. He that the spirit
of demise Skywrith's sword spoiler is eventuallyawakened in him in my idea, and

(29:47):
whether that be through a near deathexperience where the spirit of demise is what
saves him from being killed, orin you know, maybe there's a grand
battle and after the battle there scanningfor spoils and there's this room that he
goes into and it awakes and helike hits some artifact and it awakens there.

(30:07):
I haven't, you know, quitefigured out the pathway to how demise
awakens in him yet, but Ithink that would be a very interesting idea
because Ganendorf has his fans. He'sone of the best villains Nintendo has ever
concocted. Outside of a you know, Bowser he has there's a very interesting

(30:32):
backstory to Ganendorf that we don't know. Granted, reincarnation is a thing in
the Zelda franchise that's basically a wholepoint since Skywards Sword, So this might
be a different iteration that if theygo a if they turn this movie franchise
into another branch of the timeline,they could explore it. They could give

(30:55):
him another excuse to explore it becauseit wouldn't have to match up with anything
in the games. But I feellike you could also do both of these
projects in a way that they wouldmatch up with the games. The first
the first nes game way back when, while not the most technically sound game
in the entire world, there isenough story there to be able to build

(31:17):
or at least build a movie scriptwithin that world. Do they have to
go with Operative Time or Twilight Princessor any of those established stories. No,
they could they also make an entirelyoriginal story featuring Link and Zelda and
Gannendorf, the three pieces of theTry Force. That's probably what they're going

(31:38):
to do. I would not thinkthey're going to adapt one of the existing
games. However, if you wantedto set it in the original Zelda's world
and then maybe through a grand franchisingor sequels and stuff like that, then
branch off. Go for it.You could even end the game at a
spot where it would branch off intothree different places and then you can have
three different storylines going or what haveyou. Regardless, exploring the origins of

(32:01):
Gannendorf is a good It would bean interesting idea. I would watch that.
I want to see what Nintendo isthinking when it comes to that character.
Until now, all they've had todo is just make him show up
and be evil, right, There'sbeen no motivation other than you manifest estiny

(32:22):
and just conquering the kingdom and makingeverything his I'd like to feed a little
bit more into that. Is itjust Demise that's controlling him? Is the
human portion of him or the Iguess the Garudo portion of him in control
to a point? Or has hejust fully let himself be taken over?
Like? What did he always anotherthing? Did he always look like Demise?

(32:45):
Or did the corruption of Demise makehim into looking how he looks now?
There's a lot of options here,There's a lot to explore, and
I would like to see how Nintendowould go about that, considering, as
the statement said, they're developing whatoverhalf of the They're controlling the budget half
of the budget and developing the storylineand production and all that. So there

(33:07):
they have enough of their hands inthis pot they do so they can control
where the story goes or like themajor story beats to fit into whatever you
know, lower Bible. They havetucked away in the main office in Kyoto,
So if they're involved like this,it's not going to be that difficult

(33:28):
to be able to craft that story. However, the only thing I would
like to specifically recommend is a newand popular trope in movies today, and
that is the post credits scene.So in this framing of my idea,
I would like the first movie,in the first movie they're making, to

(33:49):
be, like I said, anoriginal storyline, but crafted in that NES
universe. Right, have monsters fromthe NES Games. A fight with a
CG. Lionel will be very verycool. And then you go into the
ganandor foragin story you tell that howeveryou want to. You you introduce the
garudo, you do may if youintroduced a shika, perhaps that's who the

(34:09):
grudo are fighting. The Shika somethinglike that, or whether they team together,
whatever the lore is. But atthe end, after, like I
would say, before the credits,is where his power awakens. Maybe he
even uses that to win the battleof the day. But then in the
post credits scene, I here's howI would do it. I would have
him sitting in his garudo throne orin his garudo chambers, whatever you want

(34:34):
to call it, and then asoldier comes in, maybe his right hand.
Maybe it's maybe you introduce a garudothat we already know, whether it's
Naburu from a quarin of time oror Bosa or something like that. I'm
going with Naburu here. But theBuru says, you know it's time,
We're ready to go, and thenhe leaves, and it shows a carriage
going through the desert, the Garudodesert. It shows uh perhaps passing Lake

(34:57):
Hailia, depending on how you wantto manipulate that you giography, maybe a
sign for Kakaigo, maybe the ranchLanlan Ranch off in the distance. And
then eventually it rides through the gatesof Highroyl Castle. We follow it up
the path it stops. He getsout of the carriage and he goes up
to the throne room and kneels infront of the throne in the Highrow Castle

(35:22):
throne. As he's kneeling the waythe camera is shot, there's a window
to his right side, and thecamera is shooting from his left side,
so we have his left side portfolioprofile, and there's a window in the
background that's blurry, and we seethings in the window that you know,
are moving, but they're not movingin such a way that they are too

(35:43):
much of a distraction. But youknow, as we have his profile,
something catches his eye and he turnshis head to the right, so away
from the camera. The camera thenfocuses on the window where we see two
children, one in a green hat, the other in a white veil or
whatever you call that headdress, suddenlygets shocked and hide underneath the window sill,

(36:07):
and then you fade to black.And that's your teas for Aquerina of
Time being a live action movie.First, it because it's Ganandorf's story that
this that this post credit scene iscoming from. It flips the perspective of
that iconic scene to his because inthe in the game where it first happened.

(36:29):
An Oquerina of Time, you're inthe window and he turns towards you.
He turns toward the camera because you'replaying his link, and he's looking
at Ganendorf. And then Gandorf turnsand you hide, and you see them
hiding here. You're Ganendorf, You'reThe perspective of the movie is from Ganandorf's
perspective. So he's kneeling at thethrown room in front of the king,
and he's in the room and hesees the them moving around in the window,

(36:54):
turns and they fall out a frame. They fall underneath the window sill
to high and that's where the shotends. That's basically I came up with
this post credits scene idea and thenwanted to make an entire origin story to
get to that point because that pointwould be hype as l But that's my

(37:15):
idea for a potential live action Zeldamovie in the future. Do I think
that's going to be the first one? No, I don't think that's the
that's the way to go. Peopleare gonna want a classic Zelda adventure and
I get that, but I wouldlike to see, eventually, should this
movie excel something different. There arenarrative threads that you can explore, be

(37:39):
it through full motion pictures or animatedfeatures that are a little bit shorter,
but then fill in the gaps.This would honestly, this idea could also
do as like an hour and twentyminute animated feature for Netflix or Paramount or
wherever it would go. I wouldlove to see it in full two hour,

(38:00):
you know, live action film,but it does lend itself well to
an animated backstory thing as well.But yeah, I think I think Gannendorf
in particular is an interesting narrative threadthat can be pulled. There are other
characters too, Like an impast storywould be fine, whether it's the Ocarina
of Time, Strong Warrior, Impaor one of the older iterations. You

(38:22):
could. You could get into thestory of Kokuirie Forest, you could.
There's a lot, There's a lotit. It makes sense that this is
now going into the film and potentiallytelevision realm if they haven't confirmed anything like
that, just the film to start. But I like it. I like
I like that they're doing it makessense. There are ways to expand on

(38:43):
it should the first one be successful, and as long as they don't retell
the story of Wanda Gamalan, everybodyis fine, So I'll be keeping my
eye on the Legend of Zelda movieas it as it comes up. I
imagine it's not anywhere near close tobeing a thing that we will be watching
in theaters. I would put atleast five years on it, perhaps more

(39:05):
because it sounds like they're just gettinginto pre production and planning. So don't
get too excited to see it,but get excited that it exists, and
hopefully we'll be talking about another greatmovie from Nintendo's back ground in the near
sort of near future. Coming upafter the break, let's get into Game
Awards nominees. I'll try and predictthe Game of the Year award, plus

(39:27):
some other things I would like tosee from the show this year. Jeff
Keeley's tenth annual Game Awards in thisnew iteration after it evolved from the Spike
Video Game Awards way back when onSpike TV. Let's talk about what's going
to get nominated this year? Stickaround? All right, Welcome back to
episode one of the Chief Stakes andControllers Podcast present by Fox PHL The Gambler.

(39:52):
Once again, once once once again, thank Black Tabby Games for coming
around. In the first segment ofthe show, talking about Slay the Princess
in Darling. That has really impressedsome folks in the last couple of weeks.
Also, hope you liked my ideafor the legitd of Zelda movie.
If you're skipping ahead, go backand check that out. I think I'm
onto something, but I'm probably wrong, and I'm sure people will be happy

(40:14):
to tell me why I'm an idioton my social media feeds. So,
without further ado, let's get tothe last segment of the show. Let's
talk about the Game Awards. Somister Jeff Keeley has said that the Game
Awards twenty twenty three nominees will beannounced this Monday the thirteenth in a pre

(40:36):
recorded special. Considering that that meansgames like Super Mario, RPG Avatar Frontiers
of Pandora will not be considered becausethey won't even be out yet, which
is an interesting choice. But hey, I don't make the rules, so
let's talk about it. Let's talkabout what will be the Game of the

(41:00):
Year nominees for this year's show.Now, I'm going to start right off
the bat and say I think therewill be more nominees for Game of the
Year than there were last year.I think that this year. A it's
the tenth anniversary of the show.B it's you know, a particularly loaded

(41:21):
year. So do not be surprisedif, instead of the six nominees that
we had last year, if thatgoes up to eight and potentially like the
Oscars to ten. There are enoughgames this year to warrant that, and
I think it's something that we willneed to consider going into this special on

(41:45):
Monday. So with that being said, I'm going to do this in a
couple of different ways. I'm goingto do it with the six if he
does remain at six, what Ithink those will be. If he expands
it to eight, what are like. I'm basically gonna treat this like bracketology
for you college basketball fans. There'sgonna be the six that are in no
questions asked, in my opinion,and then there's gonna be the first bubble

(42:08):
of if it's eight, and thenthe second bubble if it's ten. And
I think that will be the bestway to go about the Game of the
Year section in particular, and thenwe'll talk about some other categories as well,
getting into like the nitty gritty ofthe awards. I'm not gonna talk
about every category, A because hechanges them every single year, and B

(42:29):
because I don't have that much timeneed to do an entire episode on that
and see the esports categories. Whocares anymore? Because esports doesn't care about
esports unless you're riot games. Solet's start with that game of the year,
shall we. If we're talking aboutthe core six, the six that
will be in this conversation no matterwhat. In my opinion, it starts

(42:54):
with Balder's Gate three in Tiers ofthe Kingdom third. They are locks,
no question, those two games aregoing to be in consideration for Game of
the Year. Take it to thebank. They're They're there. They're the
absolute, like top of the linein a loaded year. Both of them

(43:15):
tied for the highest average score ofMenic Critic for twenty twenty three at ninety
six. A total coin flip interms of which will actually win, I
have no idea, uh it reallyit's going to be a very interesting fight
to the finish here, uh withthose two games. If I am,

(43:37):
you know, making these decisions.But those are the two games I think
are absolute one locks Resident Evil fourremake, even though it's not called that
uh is definitely up there as well. I think that's gonna be your third
one that's definitely in there no matterwhat. Just a phenomenal remake from earlier
this year. Uh. And Ithink that that that really had some legs

(44:00):
even still, even even with theSeparate Ways expansion that came later. If
you consider that a total package,that's gonna be in there, and it's
gonna it's gonna really surprise some people, I think, but I definitely think
it's worth it. I think thatAlan Wake too is a shoe in because
I think Allan Wake two, whilemaybe not in the same Metacritic area as

(44:21):
some of these games, not evenaveraging a ninety, I think it does
enough very weird, very different things, and the way it tells its story
and the way that it presents itself, I think it's gonna have to be
considered, uh in game of theYear. And remember these are coming from
the Jewelry. I don't know ifpeople know this, but Jeff doesn't choose

(44:42):
any of this, or if theydo know it as a as a reminder
he has a jury of peers andjournalists who do these things for him.
Uh. And they and they,you know, create the nominees and everything
like that. So he he isno, he has a team around him.
He's completely separate from all that,despite what people might want to think,
especially the ten four hat wearing folksamong us. So he's not this.

(45:04):
These are the journalists from across theworld who are making this decision.
So I'm kind of have to putin the metacritics, scores and stuff like
that into take those into account asI'm talking about these things. So so
far, we've said Zelda, we'vesaid Balder's Gate, and we've said Resident
Evil. Four. This is wherethings start to get a little weird.
Oh and aln wait too, Ido have Alan Way two. So there's

(45:25):
four. I think Mario Wonder isa definite shoe in for this for this
section, just because of how muchpeople were blown away by that game,
be some calling it the best Mariogame since Super Mario World, which is
a pretty lofty piece of praise forthat game. So those, that's five,

(45:46):
and then the last one. Thelast one's an interesting bubble. I
feel like it's an interesting It's gonnabe an indie slot, right. I
feel like that they need to havesome sort of indie game or some sort
of like smaller game in Game ofthe Year. Last year it was Stray
or the argument could be made forPlaguetail Requiem. So this I think that

(46:07):
slat's going to be filled again thisyear. And there's two contenders. There's
Cocoon by Geometric and Annapurna, andthere's the one that I think it's going
to be, and that's Sea ofStars. I think See If Stars is
going to sneak in there at thevery end, just you know, going
back to the throwback retro RPG formatthat it was very very Both games are

(46:31):
very very good, don't get mewrong, But I think See If Stars
is going to edge out Cocoon forthe six. So the six game of
the Year, if it's just six, I think are Zelda, Baldersgate,
Resident Evil four, Super Mario Wonder, Alan Wake two, and See If
Stars. Those are my six.If we then expand that to eight,

(46:52):
I think Cocun gets in, sothey're both in. And I also think
Street Fighter six makes it in onthe eighth because it is a you know,
a critical acclaimed fighting game, theleader of the fighting game genre this
year. No offense to Mortal Kombator any of the other games that came
out a revolution in that franchise inmost most aspects, So it would not

(47:17):
surprise me if the field should beexpanded, if it sneaks in to Game
of Year considerations, it could evensneak in to the six. I just
think that there are other games thatwill be chosen in front of it,
because fighting games, as much asI love them, are still considered semi
quote niche as opposed to things likeadventure games or platformers or at RPGs or

(47:39):
stuff like that. So that thefirst bubble is Cocoon and straight Fighter six.
The second bubble is where things getinteresting. Right If he were to
go all to eight all the wayto ten, would he put in something
like a Metrod Prime remastered, whichwas this year if you would believe it.
Would he give consideration to Diablo four? Am I overlooking Diablo four?

(48:04):
Right? So that's possible. There'salso Dave the Diver, another indie darling
came out of nowhere and really knockpeople's socks off. Spider Man two is
in consideration, and there are manygames that I'm forgetting. I am sure.
So if we're going to expand toten, I'm going to put in
Dave the Diver and I'm gonna putin Spider Man two. Sorry, Diablo.

(48:28):
I think Baldersgate kind of ate yourlunch. And I don't know if
although I guess Dave the Diver andDiablo if they want to go another indie
the David Diver, but Diablo isDiablo, so I'm probably overthinking that.
So yeah, I will switch fromDave the Diver to Diablo four in the
ten. I don't think it makesthe eight. I think it makes the
ten so for Game of the Yearto recap if they stick with the six

(48:52):
nominees, as there's been Balder's Gate, Tiers of the Kingdom, Allen Wake
two, Resident Evil four Remake,Super Mario Wonder, and Sea of Stars.
If that gets expanded to eight,I suspect Cocoon and Street Fighter six
will be the next two, andthen if it could expanded again to ten,

(49:12):
we'll talk about Spider Man two andDiablo four. Any of those ten
could make up the top six ifhe sticks with six nominees. But I
have this feeling that with it beingthe tenth version of the show starting it
started back in twenty fourteen, andwith this game having this year, having
been so famously loaded with stellar releasesfrom January to December, or I guess

(49:40):
from last December to this December,they could get away with expanding the Game
of the Year field. Now whatthat will do to voting is interesting,
but I don't think it'll have asmuch as an impact as people think,
because again it's still being decided bythe jury, mostly their weight. The
Jewelry's votes are weighted more than thepublic fan vote. That's why they have

(50:05):
that that one award where it's basicallyjust the fan voted award. I don't
remember the name of it off thetop of my head, but it's just
like the one they show it.They shoehorned in there, so pee player's
voice, that's what it is.Player's voice, a game voted by the
players, because why not? Gainshould impact won it last year? Sure,
it's it's a weird one, butso yeah, So that is what

(50:28):
I think is going to happen forthe UH for the Game of the Year
nominees. Those are my picks rightthere. Dabbling in some other nominees here.
I think most anticipated game is goingto be a final Fantasy seven rebirth,
and it's not particularly close just becauseoff the top of my head.

(50:49):
While I think other nominees could belike Tech and EID or like a Dragon
infinite wealth or or stuff like that, I think Rebirth has the most juice
going into twenty four, partially becauseit's so close February twenty ninth, but
also because it's Rebirth and it hasbeen previewing and crazy very well and remake

(51:09):
with such a success for what itdid that that to me, I think
is going to be most anticipated.Princess Pete's showtime as an outside chance,
but I think I think Rebirth runsaway with the most anticipated game. Best
debut indie game that will likely beCocoon because while I said See If Stars

(51:30):
will edge it out to be inthe top six, See If Stars is
not a debut game. Sabotage hasmade other games before, the Messenger among
them, so I think Cocun fromGeometry while the while the developers the people
are not new to the industry,the studio is. So I think Cocoon

(51:51):
is going to take that one.Outside of that best direction that I think
goes to Allen Wake two just becausethe things that it does with real,
real footage versus gameplay is phenomenal.I feel like that it's hard to really
explain the kind of weird stuff thatthey do in that game and how they

(52:12):
make it work, So that that'sthat's direction, baby, and they deserve
that award. Uh. Same withBest Narrative. I think Best Narrative is
going to go to Alan Wake twoas well, although there are other good
storied games this year. From youknow, Baldersgate three story is very good
and how it adapts to your uhow basically adapts how you play the game

(52:35):
residue before remake. It's the samestory, but it's still, you know,
a good story, so maybe they'llgive an edge there. Phantom Liberty
has a very good story, Davethe Diver has a very good story.
Heck, I could see a casefor Best Narrative being the making of Karaketta
Karatcha excuse me, just because it'sthe story of how that game was developed,

(52:55):
and not many people are doing that, so I could see that be
sneaking into that category as well.Best Art Direction, Oh that's tough,
right, That's a tough one becausethere has been some very very interesting art
this year and pretty art this yearas well. I might say that Mario

(53:16):
Wonder has a chance there just becauseit's saying it's familiar, but it's also
so wildly different with the way thatthe stage has come to life and and
the way the things out of thebox thinking in that game might give it
an edge in the art direction category. But then also, you know,
balder Skate is a beautiful game.The aforementioned down in way two does a

(53:38):
lot of art, has a lotof artistic decisions that are very cool.
So yeah, that I think itprobably would lean Balder's Gate there, but
I think the Wonder and Wake havea chance there. And then finally,
the last one I'm gonna try andpredict here is best score and music.
Best score the best or best musiccategory is one that I absolutely love.

(54:00):
Game music is how I got intowriting. Basically, I focused on music
for GamerNode dot com all the wayback in two thousand and nine, and
that's, you know, after Iwrote my first review in two thousand and
eight. I'm old, folks,I've been here fifteen years now. I've
been doing this video game journalism thing, oh boy. And you know,
game music has always meant a lotto me just because of that. And

(54:22):
I think that while this is onethat's a little more out in the open.
Tears of the Kingdom of Balder's Gatethree have great soundtracks, don't get
me wrong, but Street Fighter sixsoundtrack is amazing. See a Star's soundstrack
is amazing. Alan Wake again withthe way that he uses the rock music.

(54:43):
The problem is the problem with AlanWhite too, is it uses the
music from Poets of the Fall orthe Old Gods of Asgard wonderfully, but
the rest of the score is basicallyjust like sinister, undertone scary music,
which is fine, it's good.It's that's the mood. But it's not
like some other than those songs,those Poets of the Fall songs. It's
not something I'll be thinking about foryears to come. That being said,

(55:07):
though, if they wanted to performwe sing live from that game, or
a section of that song from thatgame. If Poets of the Fall can
make it out there and they wantto do the dance on stage, I'm
all for it. You should dothat, But I don't think it's enough
to win Best Score or Music.I would honestly put it put the winner

(55:27):
here as maybe a Mario Wonder becausethat soundtrack is very, very good.
As the Sea of Stars, maybeeven See of Stars. I might you
know, you know what, Yeah, let's be let's be frisky and go
see if stars. But we don'tknow exactly what to predict until those nominations
come out on Tuesday. I'm sorry, on Monday. When we find that
out, we will look back nextweek and see how close I was,

(55:49):
see if I was right about thewhole expansion of Game of the Year thing,
or if I was just a dumbdumb who was talking out of the
back of myss. So with that, we are at the end of episode
one of Cheese, Steaks and Controllers, presented as always by Fox PHL The
Gambler one O two point five FM, fourteen eighty AM, iHeartRadio and wherever
you get your podcasts. If youare listening to these words, that means

(56:13):
you've reached the end of the episode. And as I say every single week,
it means the world to me thatyou are here, that you have
listened, that you have given meyour time. I hope you were educated,
I hope you were entertained. Thankyou once again to Black Tabby for
coming out, Black Tabby Games forcoming out and talking about Slay the Princess,
Go play that game. It's onSteam right now. And that's it,
so until next week. I hopeyou have a fantastic weekend. I

(56:36):
hope you have an even better weekright behind it, and we will be
back next week with more of thelatest and greatest in video games. Here
on cheese, steaks and controllers.Until next week, goodbye, everybody,
Stay safe and have a good look