Has this happened to you? Your partner showers you with affection and gifts. But once the relationship is established, those euphoric first weeks or months go dark and compliments turn to criticisms, the warmth and affection you enjoyed at the beginning evaporates and before you know it, you’re in an emotionally abusive and in some cases physically and you don’t know how you got there. It can happen to anyone, and it happened to successful radio personality and music business maven Erin Riley who writes about her journey to self-love and survival in a book called A Dark Force 20 Years with a Covert Narcissist. https://www.erinriley.com/
How do we support the health of our animal companions without breaking the bank? Emancipet is a nonprofit organization on a mission to provide access to affordable veterinary care for everyone. Emancipet clinics provide access to preventative care office exams, vaccines,
spay/neuter surgeries, heartworm treatments, dental and special surgeries, and more at low and
discounted prices for those that need it most. I speak to Kate Kocienski, Senior Director of Marketing and Brand, Emancipet about the service and the two locations in Philadelphia which include special surgery services at its Adams Avenue Location. www.Emancipet.org
@ Emancipet on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, LinkedIn
How do we support the health of our animal companions without breaking the bank? Emancipet is a nonprofit organization on a mission to provide access to affordable veterinary care for everyone. Emancipet clinics provide access to preventative care office exams, vaccines,
spay/neuter surgeries, heartworm treatments, dental and special surgeries, and more at low and
discounted prices for those that need it most. I speak to Kate Kocienski, Senior Director of Marketing and Brand, Emancipet about the service and the two locations in Philadelphia which include special surgery services at its Adams Avenue Location. www.Emancipet.org
@ Emancipet on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Good morning, Welcome to What's goingOn? A show about making a difference
in our lives and our communities.I'm Lorraine Ballard Morral. Have you ever
been in a relationship that started incrediblyYour partner showers you with affection and gifts,
But once the relationship is established,gradually those your foic first weeks or
months go dark, and compliments turnto criticism. The warmth and affection you
(00:24):
enjoyed at the beginning evaporates, andbefore you know it, you're in an
emotionally or even physically abusive relationship.It can happen to anyone, and it
happened to successful radio personality and musicbusiness Mathan Aaron Riley, who writes about
her relationship with a narcissist, anemotional abuser, and her journey to self
(00:44):
love and survival in a book calledDark Force. But first, how do
we support the health of our animalcompanions without breaking the bank? We love
our animal companions, sometimes making surethat they're healthy and hearty can be expensive.
But there is an organization emansa petnonprofit. They're on a mission to
provide access to affordable veterinary care foreveryone. To tell us more about what
(01:10):
they provide. Joining us right nowis Kate Kazinski. She is senior director
of Marketing and Brand for Emansa Pet. Thank you so much for joining us
today. Thanks so much for havingme. Well, let's talk about this.
For so many people, we loveour animal companions, but sometimes making
sure that they're healthy, doing thepreventative care, getting also care for them
(01:32):
when they're not feeling so well canbe expensive. Tell us how emansa Pet
works. Oh, absolutely so.Emansa Pet is the largest nonprofit in the
US that's providing affordable and accessible veterinaryhealthcare. And we have been around since
nineteen ninety nine and we're in theprocess of building a network of local veterinary
(01:53):
clinics that are right within neighborhoods andthey're all designed, as you said,
to reduce that barrier to cost,which oftentimes prevents pet families from accessing veterinary
care for their beloved dogs and cats. What kind of pet care do you
provide? Absolutely so. We providepreventative services, things like vaccines and shots,
(02:15):
office visits, checkups, that sortof sort of thing, as well
as span neuter surgeries, and ourclinics they provide different services depending on the
neighborhood. So some of our clinics. We have three different regional locations.
We're in Central Texas, in Houston, and in Philadelphia, and our clinics
(02:37):
provide services that meet the needs inthe neighborhood. So we have some new
services that have just rolled out inPhiladelphia, which we're excited about. But
we have certain services such as inTexas we provide heartworm treatments since that is
such a thing down in the southernpart of the US that folks have to
deal with. So lots of differenttypes of services again for dogs and cats,
(02:59):
heartwork testing. A full list ofall of our services can be found
on our website, right, AndI guess so what you do is you
also tailor the services to reflect theneeds of that particular community. Now you
have locations in Philadelphia, tell usmore about that. Yeah, absolutely,
So we have two locations in Philadelphia. The first is on Adams Avenue.
(03:21):
On that location, it was ourfirst location in Philadelphia. And then last
year we opened up a location onRoosevelt Boulevard and that's right within a Pet
Smart retail store, and so thatlocation is newer to us and is providing
the same services all of our locations, it should say, do provide what
we call our healthy pet services,so things like vaccines, heartworm testing as
(03:46):
well as feline leukemia testing and spayand neuter surgeries, and then some of
the clinics that, as you said, the services are tailored. Yeah,
let's talk about something new. You'readding new special surgery services at your Adams
Avenue location. What exactly is that? Absolutely? So the new surgery services
located there are what we call softtissue surgery. So these are going to
(04:10):
be things like mass removals, lacerationrepairs, things that do cost a little
bit more at a regular veterinary clinicprovider, and these are services that we're
happy to be able to provide ata much lower cost. And in order
to be seen for a special surgerylike this, we will have folks come
in for a consultation. Our veterinarystaff will take a look at whatever the
(04:34):
issue might be going on and determineif it's something that our staff can take
care of right there at the clinic, and then they'll be scheduled for the
surgery. Tell Us in general,what the procedure is if you have an
animal companion, a pet, acat, or a dog and you want
to either get preventative care or more, what exactly are the steps you need
(04:57):
to take. Absolutely, that's sucha great question. So one of the
great things about a Manca pet isthat any of those preventative care treatments as
I talked about, or needs thata pet family might have, are completely
walk in. So you can comeinto a clinic when we're open, and
you can check our website for thedates and times that our clinics are open
and be seen in most cases thatday. And we do get a little
(05:21):
bit busier on weekends and during thewarmer months, so keep that in mind.
But that is something we're really happyto be able to provide, is
that walk in service. For thingslike stay and neuter surgeries and these new
soft tissue surgeries, those do requirescheduling, so you'll have to call our
phone number and we'll be happy toschedule that for folks. And depending on
(05:43):
where you're located and what you're lookingfor and what type of pet you have,
weights and things like that, thetime might be a little bit different
for those, but for the mostpart in Philadelphia, we can probably get
you in. If you're listening tothis relatively soon. Our wait list is
not long in Philadelphia. Okay,well that's good news. Now tell us,
(06:03):
is there anything else you want toadd that you think that our listeners
might want to know about a Mansipet before we close? Oh? Absolutely,
So we did just launch another newsservice at our Roosevelt clinic. We
are now offering what we call skinand ear services, and so these are
diagnosing and treating ear and skin conditionssuch as bacterial or ear infections, fungal
(06:29):
and skin infections, and those wecan have folks come on in and as
part of that healthy pet services ona walk in basis and we'll be able
to treat those as well. Andthen yeah, to wrap up, I
would just encourage folks to check outour website and mansapat dot org for a
list of all of our services.But a big thing to mention is that
we could not provide the low costservices that we have and the accessibility that
(06:54):
we're working to provide without supportive donors. So a lot of our work is
funded through the contributions of donors andwe're so thankful for that. So if
you're listening to this and are interestedin getting involved to support Amanzi pet.
You can learn how at our website, which is just a mansapat dot org.
That is fantastic. A Mansi petworks to support and strengthen some of
(07:15):
the most powerful bonds in life,those between people and the pets that they
love, providing low cost preventative andalso other types of surgeries and treatments,
making veterinary care accessible to all ofus. We appreciate the fact that you
are there for us, and wethank you so much for joining us today.
Kate Kazinski, who is Senior directorof Marketing and Brand for Emanzipet,
(07:40):
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(10:20):
going on. I'm very pleased tointroduce our next guest. She is a
legend in the radio business, workingfor a rock radio and also in the
music business, having hung out withsome of the top acts in the rock
genre. And she's written a bookthat I think has a lot of connections
(10:41):
with so many of us, andit is called Dark Force Twenty Years with
a Covert Narcissist, and it hasa lot to talk about relationships and how
sometimes they can go wrong and whatwe need to know in order to see
the red flags and perhaps walk awaywith our souls. Intact. Aaron Riley
is the author, and thank youso much for joining us here today.
(11:05):
Thank you so much for having meLorraine. And that is exactly the point
of my book. I wrote mybook in the form of a memoir to
sort of illustrate my own personal experiencesin a relationship long term marriage to a
narcissist, because I felt as though, you know, sort of describing the
patterns of behaviors and the tactics theyuse in a real life setting would help
(11:28):
others to recognize those behaviors in theirown relationships, and like you said,
perhaps free themselves before it gets awhole lot worse, because it does.
You know, any abusive, psychologicallyor physically abusive relationship has a cycle,
as they talk about the cycle ofabuse, and so they're nice and then
(11:48):
they're not so nice, and thenthey're you know, they call hoovering or
bringing flowers. It will never happenagain, but it does. So if
you could see these behaviors or knowwhat they know what to look for before
you met somebody, wouldn't that bea whole lot better than having to go
through it. One of the dangersof being with a narcissist is they'll love
(12:09):
bomb you and pull you in,and then once they've got you in their
clutches, then that's when the psychologicalabuse and maybe in some cases physical abuse
can occur. But let's talk aboutthe specifics of how did you meet this
person? Well, I met thisgentleman onmatch dot com and it's about twenty
five years ago when it first started, So twenty five years later, you
(12:31):
can go to Netflix and see theTinder Swindler and you go, oh,
I got that. But I meta very unassuming, very quiet, seemingly
very polite, not much of atalker, kind of a low key gentleman.
Always showed up on time, flowersevery date. Once he brought me
a Tiffany bracelet for nothing was mybirthday, wasn't Valentine's Day, And I
(12:52):
thought, oh, I love beingtreated like this. I've never been treated
like this before. So yeah,that's something to watch out for. And
that's what they call the love bombing. The next step in a narcissistic relationship
will be usually mirroring. Once theyidentify somebody they think would be a good,
you know, target or a sourceof supply for them, they start
(13:16):
to mirror you, which means thatthey sort of match up with everything that
you like, like, oh that'smy favorite movie too, and oh I
love sushi, and oh my dadwas like whatever. They just sort of
match up with everything you stay.So you start to believe you've met your
perfect match and your soulmate, andthat is a tactic, and it's all
intentional. And if somebody tells youthat you know you're they're soulmate and they've
(13:41):
never met anybody like you ever,I would say, just take a little
step back and watch with a morediscerning eye. I wonder if you can
talk about the time when you startedto realize that things weren't exactly the way
that you would and originally perceived themto be. Well, I would say,
Lorraine, that I started to noticethat the man that I had chosen
(14:03):
to be my partner, and we'dmoved in together before we even got married.
We were married for fifteen years andtogether twenty years. I started to
see once we moved in together somearrogance, you know, sort of like
arrogant comments and quotes, or abad mouthing other people, or just a
negative sense of the world, youknow, and it felt very toxic,
(14:26):
and I could feel like, oh, like I'm not like this, Like
I can't really, I can't reallyrelate to this. But the only way
I could relate to my husband wasto kind of go along with him and
kind of trash other people and becamelike a little game like oh yeah,
he is like that or she islike that or whatever, and I realized,
I don't even really like myself anymore. You know, that's not who
(14:48):
I am. And I'm suddenly goingdown this path because I can't figure out
any other way to connect with thisperson. So that happened early in the
relationship. And I want to tellyour listeners tune into your feelings, you
know, because I could feel somethingwas wrong. I could even tell something
was wrong on the first date.You know, you can tell when something
is off with a person. Youhave like instincts or you know, like
(15:11):
they say, trust your gut.Your gut is specifically designed for you to
tell you what's really happening. Becauseyour brain is so powerful and so strong
it'll override it. So that's whatI did. I overrode that negative feeling
that I had about that relationship foreighteen years. Eighteen years. Wow.
So but the thing is that,you know, sometimes people on the outside
(15:35):
will question or judge and say,you know, why is she with this
guy? Why doesn't she leave him, not understanding what the true dynamics of
an abusive relationship is. And Iwonder if you can maybe break it down
for us, because we know thatrelationships cross every demographic. You can be
(15:56):
rich, you can be poor,you can be in any neighborhood. It
happens. It can happen to thesmartest people. And so sometimes people don't
truly understand what the dynamics is andI wonder if you can kind of break
it down, why it wasn't thateasy just to walk away? Well,
I will tell you that it mostoften happens to the smartest people. Narcissists
(16:18):
are pretty smart, and they're goingto identify somebody that has a lot to
offer, right whether you have moneyor possessions, or whether you have a
lot of friends or a big familyor a big personality or career, they
want a piece of that. Generally, a narcissist internally has a very low
self esteem and deep self hatred,and so if they can connect up with
(16:40):
another person that makes them feel betterabout themselves, they're like, oh,
you have all these things I want. Well, at some point they're going
to realize that you're human and you'reflawed, and suddenly you're not fixing everything
for them. So then the waythat they feel powerful is to belittle you
and put you down. Now,this does not happen in public. This
happened behind closed doors. So thepeople you're talking about that are saying,
(17:03):
why don't you leave him? Ididn't really experience that because on the outside
they just thought, well, heseems like a quiet guy. They don't
seem to be a good match.She's very outgoing, but you know,
opposites attract, you know, andthey just leave it at that. And
I don't even think I was awareof how bad the relationship was. I
(17:25):
knew it wasn't a good relationship,but because he didn't hit me, i'd
have to say, well, youknow, he has a good job and
he does visit. And this iswhat we call cognitive dissonance. There are
people in the world, much likemyself, who as a survival method.
You know, if you grow upand have any kind of childhood trauma in
your life or young experiences that aretraumatic, your brain learns to protect you
(17:49):
from that. So I would rationalizeto tell myself that I'm safe and everything
is okay, And that's what keptit going for a long long period of
time. On the outside, mostpeople can't really see this, and that's
why it's so insidious and dangerous.And I think you point out something that
I think is very important that aswe grow up and we model our relationships
(18:12):
on how we're raised, sometimes wedevelop ways of protecting ourselves or strategies that
work at that time, but maybeare not so productive when you're actually a
grown up and trying to have arelationship. Right, So these behaviors that
maybe we're very successful as a kid, you know that helped you survive whatever
(18:34):
it is that you experienced. Youkind of tend to keep on doing those
things, right, You tend toget into a groove, and then those
behaviors don't really serve you in termsof your own well being. If people
have unresolved trauma in their lives,they're going to repeat over and over again
those types of connections and relationships withothers. One it's a familiar place to
(18:59):
be or somebody you know who's experiencedtrauma or neglect as a child, to
be neglected in a relationship, youjust go, oh, that's the way
it is. You know, mymother used to stonewall me and she wouldn't
respond to me when I needed her, and so I would tolerate that from
my husband, you know, stonewallingcompletely. So yes, those patterns of
behavior do not serve you. Youmust break them. You must come to
(19:23):
the realization that there are two peoplehere. We can't just sit around and
talk about how narcissists are so bad, right, they can be themselves?
Do you just go over there?And the rest of us have to take
a deep dive and a look inthe mirror to see what it is about
us that either attracts or tolerates acceptsthat kind of behavior that is less than
(19:45):
what we deserve. And once yourealize you know who we really are inside
and that you need to take careof yourself first in the world. Until
that happens, you are susceptible topredatory people think transactionally, and that could
take advantage of you. So that'severybody's job in life, right, Find
(20:06):
the true you, the thing thatmakes you happy, the thing that makes
you tick, and go with thatand stay with that. And it sounds
as though that's exactly what you did. You found a time in your own
life and in your own heart whereyou weren't willing to accept the behavior and
this relationship. What was the turningpoint for you? You know, I
have to say, Lorraine, you'regiving me more credit than I deserve.
(20:30):
I was just you know, tellingmyself that I could fix it. You
know, I can fix it.I can make it work. I'm strong,
I'm smart, I have the desireand the passion to fix it.
I can turn this around. Andreally, you can't change anybody. Yeah,
everybody hears that all the time,but you know, some people just
don't really, I guess, reallyfully understand that if somebody isn't changing,
(20:52):
it's let go and go somewhere else. So he said something one day that
was so ridiculous. It's like havingsomebody hit me over the head with a
hammer, And I went, okay, ridiculous. I realized I was being
gamed intentionally and that I had tokind of go over and reprocess everything in
the relationship and think to myself,Okay, so this is kind of how
(21:14):
it's been the whole time. Butyeah, I was very stubbornly hanging on
for a very long time. AndI think a lot of people do that.
So I'm here to encourage you tothink about yourself first, people,
because it does not change. Itdoesn't change. You know, a relationship
with a narcissist is about the narcissist, and if you are a person that
(21:34):
has a tendency toward codependency. Youare other thinking, you are thinking outside
of yourself, and a narcissist isthinking about themselves. So if you put
a codependent and a narcissist together,everybody's thinking about the narcissist. But who
doesn't get their needs Matt, thecodependent, the person that maybe really needs
the love and is looking for thelove and the wrong place right. So,
(21:56):
Aaron Riley, it seems as thoughyou wrote this book that it probably
was a very healing process to beable to go through and re examine all
the things that went into this relationshipand how you eventually were able to extricate
yourself from it, but also tolearn so much about what it is to
(22:18):
be in a relationship with a narcissistso that you can share that with other
people so that they can recognize itas well. Tell us where you're at
right now? Well, I feelgreat, Lorraine, Thank you so much
for asking. It's been about fouryears since my husband and I split.
Some pretty traumatic things happened at theend. I will just say that any
narcissist who's getting ready to discard youis going to escalate their really bad behavior,
(22:41):
and they're trying to get you toleave them so that they can play
the victim to their next person,like, oh, he left me,
she left me, she cheated onme, whatever. But really the behavior
of my husband was so frightening.At the very end, we were supposed
to move to Panama together, supposedto move to an island where we had
built a beautiful retirement home, andat the very end of our relationship,
(23:06):
I was really frightened to go becausehis behavior had really escalated. So we
went into marriage counseling and the marriagecounselor said, don't go, it could
hurt you. And that's when Ididn't go. So it was a big
traumatic blow up at the end,and it was quite terrifying. So I'm
one of those people was actually gratefulfor the pandemic because it gave me a
(23:26):
lot of time to stay home bymyself and like you say, reprocess it,
learn about narcissism and learn about myselfand write. I started writing journaling
and notes and whatnot, and that'skind of what turned into the book.
And as I continued to write,I realized that there are a lot of
people that get themselves into these situationsand can't figure out what's going on because
(23:51):
it is so, like I said, covert and insidious. Not all narcissists
are obvious from the outside. Theyall have the same disordered thinking. They're
all thinking me first, and howdo I get what I want at the
expense of you? Right while youand I are probably thinking, oh,
what can I do to help youor make your day better or whatever?
(24:11):
Empathetically right, And it's naive tothink that everybody thinks like you. So
that's all. I just want tomake sure that people know that there are
people out there that don't always haveyour best interests in mind. So I'm
smarter, I'm more aware. I'mvery happy. I got myself a little
puppy. We take walks and stuff, and I'm enjoying meeting people all over
the world that have been through someof these types of relationships and sharing knowledge
(24:36):
with others and sharing compassion, becausethat's what being a human is about,
right, sharing empathy and compassion.Well, it's an important book for those
who are in relationships that perhaps theyneed to find out how to extricate themselves
from it. It's also a goodway of looking at some of the warning
signs the red flags that might helpyou prevent yourself getting involved in a relationship
(25:02):
with a narcissist. The book isDarkforce twenty Years with a Covert Narcissist.
If people would like to get acopy of the book, how do they
do that? Well, my bookis available everywhere, so it's on Amazon
dot com and Barnes and Noble dotcom. You can go into a bookstore
and order it, and you canalso get an autographed copy on my website,
which is a Darkforce dot com whereI also sell Voodoo dolls. I
(25:26):
know this is radio, but holdon a second. I'll show Lorraine.
Lorraine, we have voodoo Dolls's adorabledoll, isn't he Cube's right? So
if you want a Vodoo doll togo along with it, I feel like
everybody needs to have at least onevoodoo dollar. Is adorable stickpins in it,
and yeah, it's wonderful. Ifeel better, Solid, show insolid.
(25:48):
You have to be able to laughat these things because it's not funny
at all. But if you don'tlike, just have some brevity and lightness
in your life, this will reallytake you down. You know, people
who have been discarded or abused bya narcissist. It's years of recovery and
understanding of yourself and what happened toyou. And that's not fair because usually
(26:11):
the narcissist seems to walk away scottfree. The truth of the matter is
they don't. They're deeply disturbed andunhappy inside. But it sure looks like
that on the outside. They're justwithout a thought. They're just often see
you later. Yeah, well,listen to the next. Thank you so
much for writing this book, DarkForest Twenty Years with a Covert Narcissist,
(26:32):
Aaron Riley, Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me
today, Lorraine Pleasure. You canlisten to all of today's interviews by going
to our station website and typing inkeyword Community. You can also listen on
the iHeartRadio app Keywords Philadelphia Community Podcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at
Lorraine Ballard. I'm Lorraine Ballard Morrowand I stand for service to our community
(26:53):
and media that empowers. What willyou stand for? You've been listening to
what's going on, and thank you
Good morning, Welcome to What's goingOn? A show about making a difference
in our lives and our communities.I'm Lorraine Ballard Morral. Have you ever
been in a relationship that started incrediblyYour partner showers you with affection and gifts,
But once the relationship is established,gradually those your foic first weeks or
months go dark, and compliments turnto criticism. The warmth and affection you
(00:24):
enjoyed at the beginning evaporates, andbefore you know it, you're in an
emotionally or even physically abusive relationship.It can happen to anyone, and it
happened to successful radio personality and musicbusiness Mathan Aaron Riley, who writes about
her relationship with a narcissist, anemotional abuser, and her journey to self
(00:44):
love and survival in a book calledDark Force. But first, how do
we support the health of our animalcompanions without breaking the bank? We love
our animal companions, sometimes making surethat they're healthy and hearty can be expensive.
But there is an organization emansa petnonprofit. They're on a mission to
provide access to affordable veterinary care foreveryone. To tell us more about what
(01:10):
they provide. Joining us right nowis Kate Kazinski. She is senior director
of Marketing and Brand for Emansa Pet. Thank you so much for joining us
today. Thanks so much for havingme. Well, let's talk about this.
For so many people, we loveour animal companions, but sometimes making
sure that they're healthy, doing thepreventative care, getting also care for them
(01:32):
when they're not feeling so well canbe expensive. Tell us how emansa Pet
works. Oh, absolutely so.Emansa Pet is the largest nonprofit in the
US that's providing affordable and accessible veterinaryhealthcare. And we have been around since
nineteen ninety nine and we're in theprocess of building a network of local veterinary
(01:53):
clinics that are right within neighborhoods andthey're all designed, as you said,
to reduce that barrier to cost,which oftentimes prevents pet families from accessing veterinary
care for their beloved dogs and cats. What kind of pet care do you
provide? Absolutely so. We providepreventative services, things like vaccines and shots,
(02:15):
office visits, checkups, that sortof sort of thing, as well
as span neuter surgeries, and ourclinics they provide different services depending on the
neighborhood. So some of our clinics. We have three different regional locations.
We're in Central Texas, in Houston, and in Philadelphia, and our clinics
(02:37):
provide services that meet the needs inthe neighborhood. So we have some new
services that have just rolled out inPhiladelphia, which we're excited about. But
we have certain services such as inTexas we provide heartworm treatments since that is
such a thing down in the southernpart of the US that folks have to
deal with. So lots of differenttypes of services again for dogs and cats,
(02:59):
heartwork testing. A full list ofall of our services can be found
on our website, right, AndI guess so what you do is you
also tailor the services to reflect theneeds of that particular community. Now you
have locations in Philadelphia, tell usmore about that. Yeah, absolutely,
So we have two locations in Philadelphia. The first is on Adams Avenue.
(03:21):
On that location, it was ourfirst location in Philadelphia. And then last
year we opened up a location onRoosevelt Boulevard and that's right within a Pet
Smart retail store, and so thatlocation is newer to us and is providing
the same services all of our locations, it should say, do provide what
we call our healthy pet services,so things like vaccines, heartworm testing as
(03:46):
well as feline leukemia testing and spayand neuter surgeries, and then some of
the clinics that, as you said, the services are tailored. Yeah,
let's talk about something new. You'readding new special surgery services at your Adams
Avenue location. What exactly is that? Absolutely? So the new surgery services
located there are what we call softtissue surgery. So these are going to
(04:10):
be things like mass removals, lacerationrepairs, things that do cost a little
bit more at a regular veterinary clinicprovider, and these are services that we're
happy to be able to provide ata much lower cost. And in order
to be seen for a special surgerylike this, we will have folks come
in for a consultation. Our veterinarystaff will take a look at whatever the
(04:34):
issue might be going on and determineif it's something that our staff can take
care of right there at the clinic, and then they'll be scheduled for the
surgery. Tell Us in general,what the procedure is if you have an
animal companion, a pet, acat, or a dog and you want
to either get preventative care or more, what exactly are the steps you need
(04:57):
to take. Absolutely, that's sucha great question. So one of the
great things about a Manca pet isthat any of those preventative care treatments as
I talked about, or needs thata pet family might have, are completely
walk in. So you can comeinto a clinic when we're open, and
you can check our website for thedates and times that our clinics are open
and be seen in most cases thatday. And we do get a little
(05:21):
bit busier on weekends and during thewarmer months, so keep that in mind.
But that is something we're really happyto be able to provide, is
that walk in service. For thingslike stay and neuter surgeries and these new
soft tissue surgeries, those do requirescheduling, so you'll have to call our
phone number and we'll be happy toschedule that for folks. And depending on
(05:43):
where you're located and what you're lookingfor and what type of pet you have,
weights and things like that, thetime might be a little bit different
for those, but for the mostpart in Philadelphia, we can probably get
you in. If you're listening tothis relatively soon. Our wait list is
not long in Philadelphia. Okay,well that's good news. Now tell us,
(06:03):
is there anything else you want toadd that you think that our listeners
might want to know about a Mansipet before we close? Oh? Absolutely,
So we did just launch another newsservice at our Roosevelt clinic. We
are now offering what we call skinand ear services, and so these are
diagnosing and treating ear and skin conditionssuch as bacterial or ear infections, fungal
(06:29):
and skin infections, and those wecan have folks come on in and as
part of that healthy pet services ona walk in basis and we'll be able
to treat those as well. Andthen yeah, to wrap up, I
would just encourage folks to check outour website and mansapat dot org for a
list of all of our services.But a big thing to mention is that
we could not provide the low costservices that we have and the accessibility that
(06:54):
we're working to provide without supportive donors. So a lot of our work is
funded through the contributions of donors andwe're so thankful for that. So if
you're listening to this and are interestedin getting involved to support Amanzi pet.
You can learn how at our website, which is just a mansapat dot org.
That is fantastic. A Mansi petworks to support and strengthen some of
(07:15):
the most powerful bonds in life,those between people and the pets that they
love, providing low cost preventative andalso other types of surgeries and treatments,
making veterinary care accessible to all ofus. We appreciate the fact that you
are there for us, and wethank you so much for joining us today.
Kate Kazinski, who is Senior directorof Marketing and Brand for Emanzipet,
(07:40):
thanks again, thanks so much.Have you ever wanted to go above and
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(10:20):
going on. I'm very pleased tointroduce our next guest. She is a
legend in the radio business, workingfor a rock radio and also in the
music business, having hung out withsome of the top acts in the rock
genre. And she's written a bookthat I think has a lot of connections
(10:41):
with so many of us, andit is called Dark Force Twenty Years with
a Covert Narcissist, and it hasa lot to talk about relationships and how
sometimes they can go wrong and whatwe need to know in order to see
the red flags and perhaps walk awaywith our souls. Intact. Aaron Riley
is the author, and thank youso much for joining us here today.
(11:05):
Thank you so much for having meLorraine. And that is exactly the point
of my book. I wrote mybook in the form of a memoir to
sort of illustrate my own personal experiencesin a relationship long term marriage to a
narcissist, because I felt as though, you know, sort of describing the
patterns of behaviors and the tactics theyuse in a real life setting would help
(11:28):
others to recognize those behaviors in theirown relationships, and like you said,
perhaps free themselves before it gets awhole lot worse, because it does.
You know, any abusive, psychologicallyor physically abusive relationship has a cycle,
as they talk about the cycle ofabuse, and so they're nice and then
(11:48):
they're not so nice, and thenthey're you know, they call hoovering or
bringing flowers. It will never happenagain, but it does. So if
you could see these behaviors or knowwhat they know what to look for before
you met somebody, wouldn't that bea whole lot better than having to go
through it. One of the dangersof being with a narcissist is they'll love
(12:09):
bomb you and pull you in,and then once they've got you in their
clutches, then that's when the psychologicalabuse and maybe in some cases physical abuse
can occur. But let's talk aboutthe specifics of how did you meet this
person? Well, I met thisgentleman onmatch dot com and it's about twenty
five years ago when it first started, So twenty five years later, you
(12:31):
can go to Netflix and see theTinder Swindler and you go, oh,
I got that. But I meta very unassuming, very quiet, seemingly
very polite, not much of atalker, kind of a low key gentleman.
Always showed up on time, flowersevery date. Once he brought me
a Tiffany bracelet for nothing was mybirthday, wasn't Valentine's Day, And I
(12:52):
thought, oh, I love beingtreated like this. I've never been treated
like this before. So yeah,that's something to watch out for. And
that's what they call the love bombing. The next step in a narcissistic relationship
will be usually mirroring. Once theyidentify somebody they think would be a good,
you know, target or a sourceof supply for them, they start
(13:16):
to mirror you, which means thatthey sort of match up with everything that
you like, like, oh that'smy favorite movie too, and oh I
love sushi, and oh my dadwas like whatever. They just sort of
match up with everything you stay.So you start to believe you've met your
perfect match and your soulmate, andthat is a tactic, and it's all
intentional. And if somebody tells youthat you know you're they're soulmate and they've
(13:41):
never met anybody like you ever,I would say, just take a little
step back and watch with a morediscerning eye. I wonder if you can
talk about the time when you startedto realize that things weren't exactly the way
that you would and originally perceived themto be. Well, I would say,
Lorraine, that I started to noticethat the man that I had chosen
(14:03):
to be my partner, and we'dmoved in together before we even got married.
We were married for fifteen years andtogether twenty years. I started to
see once we moved in together somearrogance, you know, sort of like
arrogant comments and quotes, or abad mouthing other people, or just a
negative sense of the world, youknow, and it felt very toxic,
(14:26):
and I could feel like, oh, like I'm not like this, Like
I can't really, I can't reallyrelate to this. But the only way
I could relate to my husband wasto kind of go along with him and
kind of trash other people and becamelike a little game like oh yeah,
he is like that or she islike that or whatever, and I realized,
I don't even really like myself anymore. You know, that's not who
(14:48):
I am. And I'm suddenly goingdown this path because I can't figure out
any other way to connect with thisperson. So that happened early in the
relationship. And I want to tellyour listeners tune into your feelings, you
know, because I could feel somethingwas wrong. I could even tell something
was wrong on the first date.You know, you can tell when something
is off with a person. Youhave like instincts or you know, like
(15:11):
they say, trust your gut.Your gut is specifically designed for you to
tell you what's really happening. Becauseyour brain is so powerful and so strong
it'll override it. So that's whatI did. I overrode that negative feeling
that I had about that relationship foreighteen years. Eighteen years. Wow.
So but the thing is that,you know, sometimes people on the outside
(15:35):
will question or judge and say,you know, why is she with this
guy? Why doesn't she leave him, not understanding what the true dynamics of
an abusive relationship is. And Iwonder if you can maybe break it down
for us, because we know thatrelationships cross every demographic. You can be
(15:56):
rich, you can be poor,you can be in any neighborhood. It
happens. It can happen to thesmartest people. And so sometimes people don't
truly understand what the dynamics is andI wonder if you can kind of break
it down, why it wasn't thateasy just to walk away? Well,
I will tell you that it mostoften happens to the smartest people. Narcissists
(16:18):
are pretty smart, and they're goingto identify somebody that has a lot to
offer, right whether you have moneyor possessions, or whether you have a
lot of friends or a big familyor a big personality or career, they
want a piece of that. Generally, a narcissist internally has a very low
self esteem and deep self hatred,and so if they can connect up with
(16:40):
another person that makes them feel betterabout themselves, they're like, oh,
you have all these things I want. Well, at some point they're going
to realize that you're human and you'reflawed, and suddenly you're not fixing everything
for them. So then the waythat they feel powerful is to belittle you
and put you down. Now,this does not happen in public. This
happened behind closed doors. So thepeople you're talking about that are saying,
(17:03):
why don't you leave him? Ididn't really experience that because on the outside
they just thought, well, heseems like a quiet guy. They don't
seem to be a good match.She's very outgoing, but you know,
opposites attract, you know, andthey just leave it at that. And
I don't even think I was awareof how bad the relationship was. I
(17:25):
knew it wasn't a good relationship,but because he didn't hit me, i'd
have to say, well, youknow, he has a good job and
he does visit. And this iswhat we call cognitive dissonance. There are
people in the world, much likemyself, who as a survival method.
You know, if you grow upand have any kind of childhood trauma in
your life or young experiences that aretraumatic, your brain learns to protect you
(17:49):
from that. So I would rationalizeto tell myself that I'm safe and everything
is okay, And that's what keptit going for a long long period of
time. On the outside, mostpeople can't really see this, and that's
why it's so insidious and dangerous.And I think you point out something that
I think is very important that aswe grow up and we model our relationships
(18:12):
on how we're raised, sometimes wedevelop ways of protecting ourselves or strategies that
work at that time, but maybeare not so productive when you're actually a
grown up and trying to have arelationship. Right, So these behaviors that
maybe we're very successful as a kid, you know that helped you survive whatever
(18:34):
it is that you experienced. Youkind of tend to keep on doing those
things, right, You tend toget into a groove, and then those
behaviors don't really serve you in termsof your own well being. If people
have unresolved trauma in their lives,they're going to repeat over and over again
those types of connections and relationships withothers. One it's a familiar place to
(18:59):
be or somebody you know who's experiencedtrauma or neglect as a child, to
be neglected in a relationship, youjust go, oh, that's the way
it is. You know, mymother used to stonewall me and she wouldn't
respond to me when I needed her, and so I would tolerate that from
my husband, you know, stonewallingcompletely. So yes, those patterns of
behavior do not serve you. Youmust break them. You must come to
(19:23):
the realization that there are two peoplehere. We can't just sit around and
talk about how narcissists are so bad, right, they can be themselves?
Do you just go over there?And the rest of us have to take
a deep dive and a look inthe mirror to see what it is about
us that either attracts or tolerates acceptsthat kind of behavior that is less than
(19:45):
what we deserve. And once yourealize you know who we really are inside
and that you need to take careof yourself first in the world. Until
that happens, you are susceptible topredatory people think transactionally, and that could
take advantage of you. So that'severybody's job in life, right, Find
(20:06):
the true you, the thing thatmakes you happy, the thing that makes
you tick, and go with thatand stay with that. And it sounds
as though that's exactly what you did. You found a time in your own
life and in your own heart whereyou weren't willing to accept the behavior and
this relationship. What was the turningpoint for you? You know, I
have to say, Lorraine, you'regiving me more credit than I deserve.
(20:30):
I was just you know, tellingmyself that I could fix it. You
know, I can fix it.I can make it work. I'm strong,
I'm smart, I have the desireand the passion to fix it.
I can turn this around. Andreally, you can't change anybody. Yeah,
everybody hears that all the time,but you know, some people just
don't really, I guess, reallyfully understand that if somebody isn't changing,
(20:52):
it's let go and go somewhere else. So he said something one day that
was so ridiculous. It's like havingsomebody hit me over the head with a
hammer, And I went, okay, ridiculous. I realized I was being
gamed intentionally and that I had tokind of go over and reprocess everything in
the relationship and think to myself,Okay, so this is kind of how
(21:14):
it's been the whole time. Butyeah, I was very stubbornly hanging on
for a very long time. AndI think a lot of people do that.
So I'm here to encourage you tothink about yourself first, people,
because it does not change. Itdoesn't change. You know, a relationship
with a narcissist is about the narcissist, and if you are a person that
(21:34):
has a tendency toward codependency. Youare other thinking, you are thinking outside
of yourself, and a narcissist isthinking about themselves. So if you put
a codependent and a narcissist together,everybody's thinking about the narcissist. But who
doesn't get their needs Matt, thecodependent, the person that maybe really needs
the love and is looking for thelove and the wrong place right. So,
(21:56):
Aaron Riley, it seems as thoughyou wrote this book that it probably
was a very healing process to beable to go through and re examine all
the things that went into this relationshipand how you eventually were able to extricate
yourself from it, but also tolearn so much about what it is to
(22:18):
be in a relationship with a narcissistso that you can share that with other
people so that they can recognize itas well. Tell us where you're at
right now? Well, I feelgreat, Lorraine, Thank you so much
for asking. It's been about fouryears since my husband and I split.
Some pretty traumatic things happened at theend. I will just say that any
narcissist who's getting ready to discard youis going to escalate their really bad behavior,
(22:41):
and they're trying to get you toleave them so that they can play
the victim to their next person,like, oh, he left me,
she left me, she cheated onme, whatever. But really the behavior
of my husband was so frightening.At the very end, we were supposed
to move to Panama together, supposedto move to an island where we had
built a beautiful retirement home, andat the very end of our relationship,
(23:06):
I was really frightened to go becausehis behavior had really escalated. So we
went into marriage counseling and the marriagecounselor said, don't go, it could
hurt you. And that's when Ididn't go. So it was a big
traumatic blow up at the end,and it was quite terrifying. So I'm
one of those people was actually gratefulfor the pandemic because it gave me a
(23:26):
lot of time to stay home bymyself and like you say, reprocess it,
learn about narcissism and learn about myselfand write. I started writing journaling
and notes and whatnot, and that'skind of what turned into the book.
And as I continued to write,I realized that there are a lot of
people that get themselves into these situationsand can't figure out what's going on because
(23:51):
it is so, like I said, covert and insidious. Not all narcissists
are obvious from the outside. Theyall have the same disordered thinking. They're
all thinking me first, and howdo I get what I want at the
expense of you? Right while youand I are probably thinking, oh,
what can I do to help youor make your day better or whatever?
(24:11):
Empathetically right, And it's naive tothink that everybody thinks like you. So
that's all. I just want tomake sure that people know that there are
people out there that don't always haveyour best interests in mind. So I'm
smarter, I'm more aware. I'mvery happy. I got myself a little
puppy. We take walks and stuff, and I'm enjoying meeting people all over
the world that have been through someof these types of relationships and sharing knowledge
(24:36):
with others and sharing compassion, becausethat's what being a human is about,
right, sharing empathy and compassion.Well, it's an important book for those
who are in relationships that perhaps theyneed to find out how to extricate themselves
from it. It's also a goodway of looking at some of the warning
signs the red flags that might helpyou prevent yourself getting involved in a relationship
(25:02):
with a narcissist. The book isDarkforce twenty Years with a Covert Narcissist.
If people would like to get acopy of the book, how do they
do that? Well, my bookis available everywhere, so it's on Amazon
dot com and Barnes and Noble dotcom. You can go into a bookstore
and order it, and you canalso get an autographed copy on my website,
which is a Darkforce dot com whereI also sell Voodoo dolls. I
(25:26):
know this is radio, but holdon a second. I'll show Lorraine.
Lorraine, we have voodoo Dolls's adorabledoll, isn't he Cube's right? So
if you want a Vodoo doll togo along with it, I feel like
everybody needs to have at least onevoodoo dollar. Is adorable stickpins in it,
and yeah, it's wonderful. Ifeel better, Solid, show insolid.
(25:48):
You have to be able to laughat these things because it's not funny
at all. But if you don'tlike, just have some brevity and lightness
in your life, this will reallytake you down. You know, people
who have been discarded or abused bya narcissist. It's years of recovery and
understanding of yourself and what happened toyou. And that's not fair because usually
(26:11):
the narcissist seems to walk away scottfree. The truth of the matter is
they don't. They're deeply disturbed andunhappy inside. But it sure looks like
that on the outside. They're justwithout a thought. They're just often see
you later. Yeah, well,listen to the next. Thank you so
much for writing this book, DarkForest Twenty Years with a Covert Narcissist,
(26:32):
Aaron Riley, Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me
today, Lorraine Pleasure. You canlisten to all of today's interviews by going
to our station website and typing inkeyword Community. You can also listen on
the iHeartRadio app Keywords Philadelphia Community Podcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at
Lorraine Ballard. I'm Lorraine Ballard Morrowand I stand for service to our community
(26:53):
and media that empowers. What willyou stand for? You've been listening to
what's going on, and thank you
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