August 23, 2024 • 29 mins
In 1988, 5-year-old Marcus Yates was caught in crossfire inside a corner store in Southwest Philadelphia. While the deaths of children to gun violence have become tragically commonplace, Marcus's death at that time galvanized the city and inspired me and many others to work to end gun violence. Over three decades later, the family took a courageous step toward healing by meeting with the men convicted in the shooting. In a surprising turn, the family concluded that while Ike Johnson admitted to being involved, citing self-defense, Michael Gainer was wrongfully convicted. The Yates family has committed to proving his innocence. I spoke to Marcus's mom, Shelly Yates Whittington, and her two sons, Tony and Malcolm Yates, about their journey of healing and reconciliation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Insight. I'm Lorraine Ballardmorrow. Right now, in
the next few minutes, we're going to have a very
important conversation. It's an important conversation not only to those
who are listening, but certainly for me as well, because
over thirty years ago, there is a young boy named
Marcus Yates who was killed in the crossfire of a
(00:21):
shooting that was in southwest Philadelphia. As a result of that,
I got to know the family very very well. Marcus
Yates was five years old. His brothers were there when
this incident happened. And you go three sixty full circle
and we're all here in the studio together. I'm here
with Shelley Yates Whittington, who is Marcus's mom, Tony Yates,
(00:43):
who is Marcus's brother, and his other brother, Malcolm Yates.
And I just want to say that I've known this
family for over thirty years, and in the course of
that knowledge that knowing this family, I have just seen
some remarkable people that have done so much good in
the commune and are doing so well on their own
despite the tremendous trauma of that incident, which galvanized a
(01:07):
city of Philadelphia sadly, as we look at twenty twenty four,
when we're doing this interview, the death of a child
by gun violence, people they barely pay attention because it's
so common. But when Marcus Yates was killed over thirty
years ago, the city took notice and it was devastating
for the city of Philadelphia. Well, here we are in
(01:29):
twenty twenty four, and there's a new story to tell,
and that is a story of healing and forgiveness. So
I just want to welcome to the studio Shelly Yates Whittington,
who is a pastor and teacher and an activist. Tony Yates,
who was actually one of my interns back in the
day and also worked for Power ninety nine back in
(01:49):
the day and now is a very successful DJ known
as DJ's sole controller. And Malcolm Yates, who again just
extraordinarily was injured during that gun fight and was told
that he may not be able to walk, and here
he is. Not only did he play football in college,
he is now the director of government relations for PHMC
(02:11):
Public Health Management Corporation and who knows he might be
the next mayor of the city Affilidah. Yeah, he is
on his way for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So I'm going to start with you, Shelley, and first
I want to remind folks what the circumstances were, what
brings us here today. Tell us about Marcus Yeates and
what happened.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Okay, thirty five years ago, my little baby boy, Marcus
Yeates was visiting his grandmother in the on sixty fent Springfield,
along with his two brothers. During that time, while me
and his father was working at the Navy yard. We
came home and our life changed forever. We found that
Marcus was shot in the head, Malcolm was shot twice,
(02:51):
and Tony was there to pick up the pieces to
try to save his brother's life by putting his fingers
in the hole of his brother's head. But unfortunately, Mark
has died in the hospital in my arms. And that's
been thirty six years ago that I've been on this
journey of forgiveness. I've been holding on to a lot
of anger and hurt and it was time to let
(03:12):
it go. Yeah, So I'm here now to tell you
about my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, we're gonna get back to you in a second.
Tony eights you were eleven and you were there. I
can't even begin to imagine how traumatic that had to
have been for you. And yet here you are. You're married,
you're a father, you're a husband, you have a successful business,
and you have managed to succeed in life despite the
(03:38):
tremendous trauma that you experienced.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, yeah, what is your memory of Marcus?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Oh, man, my brother was It was just funny man.
He was the life of all of us. He was
the jokester, the bully of us three if you will,
you know, because he whatever Marcus Win and Marcus got
it and he was just a joke that I just
remember a lot of laughter when it comes to him.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's as far as it goes.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, well, that's a wonderful memory to hold on to. Malcolm.
You were seven at the time that this occurred, and
you were injured pretty severely.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
I was shot once in my left hip and in
my right foot.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Right, and they thought you may not be able to
walk again.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Right, Yeah, that was you know, the assumption, because it
shattered my pelvis and exited about a few inches from
my spine and then also on my foot. So it
was a recovery process that took you know, two three
about two months to get recovered. I was in the
hospital from that day until like September, So from July
to September.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I was in the hospital, and yet you were able
to recover and you went on to play sports.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
So God is great man. It didn't slow it down.
I mean I still feel some effects of it today,
but I was able to play some football. I did
some collegiate football, did some arena football, and here I
am walking and talking and just active and still play sports.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah. I have been a full recovery.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
What is your memory of Marcus? You were only seven
at the time.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
But that's the challenging part, right, being so close in age,
the memories as time goes on, you kind of they
kind of fade a little bit, and that there is
the most challenging piece of it, because the memory that
I would love to have may have been lost because
of the gap of time and being so close in age.
(05:30):
So I always just remember he and I just you know,
being so close, always teaming up to try to beat
up Tony. You know, it was always hard to beat
up big bro, and you know, always just tagging along
with big brother to do whatever he was doing, you know,
because he was four years older, so it was always
looking up the tone, trying to russell you know, WWE
and all that good stuff. So we were always swearing
(05:52):
we were the you know, the tag team champions of
the world going against Hawgogan over there.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So it was always good yep, and MARKI was the
ring leader.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Well, my memory of Marcus was simply the picture of him,
that iconic picture with his little smiling face, five year
old Marcus Yates. Who would be thirty five, right or no?
Would he be a little bit forty forty? He would
be forty forty one. What do you want? Yeah, yeah, Well, Shelley,
anyone who's experienced the kind of devastating loss that you
(06:24):
and your family have experienced have to go through, you know,
the process of healing, overcoming the trauma. And of course
nothing will ever take away the pain completely because he's
always going to be in your heart, and that's a
loss that will never be completely healed. However, as we
look at thirty five years later, you made a decision
(06:45):
which is quite monumental, and that is to speak to
the two men who were convicted in Marcus's death, and
I want you to tell us what was on your
mind when you decided that you wanted to meet them,
you wanted to speak to them. What was your ago?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I needed to find out if I actually forgive them. See, I'm,
like I said, I'm an evangelist and I'm on the
road to forgiveness because Christ died for me, and he
forgave me for my sins, So how dare I not
forgive someone else? But even though during that journey, I
couldn't find it in my heart to forgive them because
the pain.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Was so great.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I lost so much and the memories don't go away now,
and I lost everything, even my dad. It was just
you know, he was Marcus's best friend. He died like
a couple of years later. I'm a broken heart. And
then his father died because he couldn't, you know, take
it because Marcus was born on his birthday, So to
(07:42):
know that he did it too towards the Vietnam to
come home and so watch his son die right in
my arms, it was just unbearable. And I just needed
to find some kind of healing. And I know on
his journey and forgiveness it was essential for my spiritual
and my physical health because I cannot no longer hold
on to that anger that I've been going through. And
(08:03):
people think that I go talk and the big places,
but inside I was dying every time, because nobody understands
to have a loss of a child that you've been there.
And because Marcus was my baby boy and only had three,
and then come to find out I was about to
give birth to a little girl nine months later.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I know that was a miracle, right.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It was a miracle, but it was sold. I can't
even give you the words cause I figured I didn't
deserve her, and all that time, I never felt like
I deserve to having another child because I couldn't take
care of the three I had, so too fast forward.
I just asked the Lord to help me, and so
I couldn't sleep. I stayed up. But it's just been
four or five years ago, and before COVID and the
(08:45):
Lord kept talking to me forgive these two forgive, forgive, forgive,
it's just been lay em bettered in my head every
single night. So I said, Lord, okay, I hear you,
and I said, I'm going to go on this journey
of forgiveness. And so during his journey has been very
healing for me as because forgiveness is not for them,
(09:07):
it's for me. I just kept wanted to make sure
that I did everything I can to forgive them, but
it wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So one day the lawyer said, called a prison. So
I called a prison.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And I said, I'm Marcus's mother and I'm the victim's mother,
and I want to make appointment for me to come
down to visit mister Michael Gaynor and mister Ike Johnson.
And he said what I said, Yes, I need to
come and visit them. He said, miss, we never heard
nothing like this before. So he transferred me to somebody else.
(09:41):
And so byttom line, I got to the victim Advocacy
program and Ken and Penny from the victim advocacy program said,
they'll work with me to set up arrangement for me
to meet these.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Two, the two men convicted of killing your son. Yes,
well you actually were able to do that. Yes, you
met with both of them individually. Yes, I did.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
And what happened, Well, when I met with mister Ike Johnson,
first I asked my son or do they mind being
with me? And we wanted. I wanted to go to
the prison, but I know Tony said no prison, kocome Tannisha.
They was open to do it, but I didn't. I
didn't really want to travel that far, and traveling in
that distance was a not for me to do.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, where are they were there? Incarcerated? They're incarcerated, I
don't remember.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Otherwise, that's kind of far.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
It was cold town or something like that. So they're upstate. Paid.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, that was quite a So I couldn't do it
on the same day, so I asked him, can we
do zoom?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And we did soon. Yeah, so you brought Malcolm with you?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yes, Malcolm was there and Tanisha was there. Tony wasn't
there at first. He wasn't there at either time.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So Malcolm, what was that like?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
At first?
Speaker 5 (10:55):
It was very emotional because for me, that was the
first time that I actually got the opportunity to lay
eyes on them as an adult. The last time that
I actually was in the same room or spoken to
either one was in nineteen ninety when I was nine
years old in court, and I never got the opportunity
to conceptualize it or even comprehended as an adult. And
(11:18):
now and as an adult being able to see and
speak to both of them was just like a full
circle moment. He knew everything, you know, He says, Malcolm
is good to see you, and who is that speaking
and this was like Johnson, this is the gentleman who
actually was in the store, who actually fired the weapons,
and amidst that he actually did this, and it was
really like wow, taken back, like you know me, he
(11:42):
knew the story. He knew I mean, of course he
knew it, but it was just you know, he followed us,
He followed us, you know, from what we were doing,
and understood where I was, you know, doing things politically
and through the community. And he knew Tuannisha, he knew Tony.
He called out you know, Micah and Shannon like all
of us, like I was in Grant in his mind
(12:03):
and it was just so like wow, and that really
kind of threw me through a loop. But also I've
been on this information gathering because I was only seven
years old, so I only know the accounts that was
told between the lawyers, between the court, between the media,
and then with my own account. But again, your account
is only from what you're your perspective. You don't know
(12:24):
the background, you don't know the other side of the story.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Finally, maybe in twenty eighteen, Tony, myself and Micah and Shannon,
we finally got together and gave our accounts for the
first time in thirty years. So now hearing it from
the other side of the gun, hearing him and what
he went through and his account through the day, and
he starts off and says, you know, you and I
was never supposed to meet. I didn't come into that
(12:49):
store for this. I was just getting a pineapple soda
on the hot July day. And hearing that piece of
it was just like, Okay, I can release some of
the anger or attention that was in my heart because
I thought they just was coming in there.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Just to just shut up the story.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So, Tony, you weren't able to be at the Zoom calls,
but you're certainly aware of everything that's going on, and
I wonder if you can tell us a little bit
about your own feeling. How do you relate to all
of this that's been unfolding.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
At first, when my mother brought it to my attention
and said that this is the path that she wants
to go down, at the first, I was just like,
I don't know, I don't think I really want to
be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I want to live my life. You know, I don't
want to.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Keep bringing it back and open up the wounds again
and again and again and again. But it seems like
every year the wounds keep open again and again because
every time we get to a milestone, there's something that
we have to do to remember that milestone.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
There's a trigger every year, right, right, right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
So then I thought about it and I was like,
you know, she's right. In order to move on, you
have to forgive. And in order to heal, you have
to forgive. So who am I to judge? And who
am I not to forgive?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Nobody?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And then on top of that, God has already done
blessed me with my son, who is named Marcus.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yes, and he looks so much like him, it's really crazy.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yet, if anyone has never believed in reincarnation, you need
to look at my brother. I mean, look at my son,
because my son is the reincarnation of my brother. God
has given me my brother to raise because the things
that he do, the things that he say, the birthmark,
(14:46):
the stork bite from one hit one side to the other,
the wings that he has on his back as a birthmark,
I mean, these are telltale signs of reincarnation. And when
he was given to me in my life, you know,
and I'm able to raise this my brother. You know,
(15:09):
I'm now looking at this whole thing like we need
to do this. We need to set a precedence for
anyone who's been dealing with the hurt and the pain
and can't get through it, who has the hate in
their heart because of someone that's did them wrong, but
they don't know the story behind the other person. And
then when I was able to hear the story to
(15:31):
get the idea of what happened, what led to this,
I'm looking at it like it could have been me.
It could be me now, especially the account that Michael
Gaynor has given, that could be any one of us
right now just walking and being in the crowd. And
then because I'm guilty by association, now I'm doing life.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
So let's talk about Michael Gaynor, Shelley. The other thing
that came out of this is your understanding that Michael
Gainor was actually wrongfully convicted of the murder of your son. Yes,
so he spent these thirty plus years behind the walls
of the prison where he's incarcerated as an innocent man. Yes,
(16:15):
And so tell us more about that okay.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So when I reached out to him and I finally
got a chance to meet both of them. But I
just met with Michael Gainor on Friday. I didn't know
any of this had happened because they put us out
the courtroom during that time. And so now I found
out that he was framed and he was set up.
The police detective that was supposed to have been really
close to my family, Paul Warrell. They have a whole
story about him framing a whole lot of young black
(16:39):
boys during the eighties, and they are sitting in jail
right now. So I said to him, Michael, I said,
I have to do whatever I can to get you free.
You should not be sitting there for thirty six years
for something you didn't do. Nobody should be in the
prison walls for thirty six years for something they didn't do.
I said, how loo was your She said eighty seven.
(17:01):
I said, I want to be there today that you
get out and give your mother a hug, because I
can't hug markets. But your mother's alive, and I pray
that you will get a chance to see her. And
so after he told me everything, he said, we're connected
as family you're my family, and he thinks about everything.
In nineteen eighty eight. He talks to me like he said,
(17:21):
you're my big sister.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I said, okay, so I'm just.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Like wow and everything. Even with a Johnson, he talks
to me like it was that same day. He put
me right back in the place, and he gave me
all the answers that I ever waited to hear. And
I never heard any of those things until Friday. And
so I told him, if God gives me that, give
me strength, and I get the people to help come
(17:47):
behind me, we're going to get you out of there.
But I told him I love him. I told him
I'm sorry because I didn't know. And if I knew
back then, I would have made sure that he would
we would have found the right.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Person mentioned when we were talking about this previously, that Ike,
the person who admittedly pulled the trigger. When he saw
Michael Gaynor, he said, that's not the guy, Yeah, he said,
but it's not him. That's not him. And yet they
went ahead and convicted him anyway. And that's not an
unfamiliar story.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
No, it's not. So many men are sitting behind bars
and I was looking at the exonerate the series as
on a radio series exam and then I try to
contact the dae yes, and I left messages from them.
I haven't heard back from them, but I guess the
urgency maybe it's not as there it is for me.
I don't want him to spend another day there.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
We're creating that urgency now, you know, now that we
got the story in their account, and then talking to
Michael Gainor and hearing what he has done on his side,
this is what we need to do next, because is wrong,
you know, and for him to sit and stealing in
prison for thirty five years is just unacceptable. So we
want to continue to do what we can do on
(18:56):
the outside and then what he's doing on the inside,
and using our platform and using our resources to say, Okay,
this was our brother and we lost them. Yes, this
happened to our family, but it also is a duality
to it, like, Okay, now we have someone who was
wrongfully convicted, so we have to get him the justice
that he deserves. So he needs to be released. So
my mom has helped reaching out to Larry Krasner. I
(19:18):
also send some emails to the District attorney office. Also
send an email to Lieutenant Governor's office to see what
we can do to hopefully get the sense of urgency
and the priority place higher on this because we definitely
have to do something right.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And just to close the circle, there was another person
who actually you believe is the shooter who has passed away.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Is it right?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, he was never arrested, no, but he's passed away.
And now we have two people, one who's been isolated
from the general population, Ike, because the death, the murder
of a child is the worst thing you can do
in prison. Right, absolutely, but ironically and very tellingly, right,
Michael Gaynor is in the general population. He's not considered
(20:02):
by his fellow inmates as being that person who was
the perpetrator of this murder. And so that's a very
interesting development, Tony. What would you like to see in
the best possible world.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
In the best possible world, I would love to see
Michael Gaynor be as hoonerated. I would like to see
Mike Johnson to be released. And the reason why I
say that is because, again, two sides of every story,
and when you hear his story, all he was doing
was protecting himself.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's all he was doing, was protecting himself, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And and again I sit and I think about it.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
It could have been anybody, any one of us, anybody
hearing him cross the street almost getting hit by a car.
This is like in words, was exchanged. Then he's in
the store and the person comes back into the store
behind him and say what did you say? And then
pull a weapon, And now he's defending himself and we
(21:02):
were just casualties. And for me that was a weight
lifted because this wasn't something between you know, him being reckless.
It was him defending himself. So the person who was
driving the car was the reckless one, and that person
got what he deserved. Still being in the streets, street justice,
street justice prevailed on him, right. But of course what
(21:23):
he was doing was wrong. He was in the streets,
and he had a weapon on him all that. But
still thirty five years with self defense. That's another thing
that we look at like wow.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, And honestly, after you get down the road, like
I said, this is thirty six years now. Yes, you know,
how long are you gonna hold his crutch? How long
are you going to continue to have hate in your heart?
You know, just let it go.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons why some of
us are physically and mentally sick is because of unforgiveness.
After speaking to them, it was not only was a
life changing for me, but it was emotional liberating.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I am no longer bound up the change on my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I'd been holding on those change was wrapped around my
mind for a long time because I didn't get a
chance to grief, as you really know, the newspeople followed
me everywhere I went. I worried about them boys because
they had to hit out on them. I had to
travel three hours to see them. I couldn't do half
the couldn't media half the time because her dad wasn't
ready to deal with it. My whole life changed. And
(22:27):
I'd just been, you know, psychologically so bonded. I was
in bondage. I'm not in bondage anymore. Five years ago
when I wrote him that letter, he read that letter
back to me, I tell you, and after he said,
you try to commit suicide, and I did because.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I couldn't take this.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Who wrote you a letter?
Speaker 4 (22:48):
She wrote a letter to Michael Gainor, actually to both
of them, I guess, and.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Michael Gainor kept that letter, not.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
All the original articles and read the letter verbatim right
back to her. Wo Man, you're talking about touching. It's
just can't fathom.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah. Wow. So I think we have to touch on
the fact that the media can traumatize and re traumatize
over and over, you know, first of all, bringing up
the details over and over again, being intrusive, you know,
probably following you and wanting to talk to you and
all that.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Remember, Malcolm and I was to post a child for
stop the violence and increase the peace. We've been paraded
around Senate d President Hasburg, We've been to post the child,
so they all for this. But also what that being
said is that yes, the media could re traumatize us,
(23:48):
but we've been through it. We've been through the woods,
we've been through the fire. We can speak to truth
to justice, right or it's truth to power, but also
be able to have solution based conversation absolute and that's
where we're at now. For those who are still stuck
in the trauma and angry, we understand we want to
be the mouthpiece and we want to continuously be the
(24:09):
representative to those who can't necessarily tell their story. But
also now on the road of healing, recovery and redumbant,
be there for someone who needs to be reared to
a different direction, because you know, not everyone has the
Lorraine balladmor And I told you every time I talk
to you, every time I have this conversation, regardless, I'm
(24:29):
gonna give you the flowers that you are rightfully given
because you took me from one place to change my life,
absolutely so, and that we need that how media portrays
and tells the story as you and I know we're
going to this sensible gun violence, how to report gun violence.
And the way that you are you've been telling the story,
(24:52):
the way you've been connected to us. We saw you
saw us go from literally from the children.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
You're not only are you grown men, but you're a
successful grown man. I mean you're a powerful man. You know,
you've got family, You've got love, You've you know, it's
my heart is so full just to see the two
of you, and you of course Shelley, and and Tunisia,
your daughter who was born nine months to the day
after Marcus.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
She has passed away doing the same thing. She's she
has own business as well. Cause wonderful taken off.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, well it's it's a beautiful thing, and it's all
about healing and forgiveness and justice. And that's what you
want to want justice. You want justice.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Absolutely, That's all we want is justice. We all, that's
all we've been crusading for.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
We want both of the men, release both of them,
not just one. There are certainly lots of folks out
there who are they've lost loved ones gun violence, because
that's Philly. You know, there's a lot of people who've
lost lost their children and may not see the path
to Absolutely what would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I know we went spoke quite a few different places.
It's Cheney State everywhere. We just was at an event
a week ago. And when I tell them that I'm
on this journey, I get those looks. My son can
tell you, they give me this gas for like, are
you crazy? Why would you forgive those people? And I say,
I'm thirty five years in and you're just a year,
a month's couple months, And I understand how you feel,
(26:25):
But I got to live my journey and I'm there
for you. I give them hugs and comfort and prayer
and whatever they need from me, I'll give it to them.
But I can't go back thirty five years ago. I
just got to move forward and I got to do
what God called me to do. They have to be freed.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
It's not right.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Justice is justice. I'm concerned about my boys, my daughters.
Every chance I don't hear from Is that because of markets, yes,
but also because they're black men in America?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And I feel the pain of these mothers who lost
their children, boys and girls and whoever. But I have
to work on end of the avenue now. I gotta
move forward, and like you said, the other part to this,
and I'm working on that part now.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Freedom. Thank you all so much for joining us here today.
Shelley Yates Whittington, who is the mother of Marcus Yates,
who was killed over thirty five years ago at the
age of five in an incident that has cascaded into
a journey of healing and forgiveness for the whole family.
(27:29):
Shelley Yates a pastor, a teacher, and on her path
to forgiveness and healing. Tony Yates successful. Dj A, Dad,
I think I saw some prom pictures of your daughter. Gorgeous, Oh, gorgeous. Yeah,
And I just love you, know, I follow you on
Facebook and I just love seeing what a great dad
(27:50):
and a great husband you are just a beautiful thing.
Tony Yates and Malcolm, I feel like you know, Congress,
send President President lives to God's ears. Definitely the path
is open for you. You're currently director of government relations for
Public Health Management Corporation. You were seven years old when
your brother was killed, Tony was eleven, and you're all
(28:13):
on this joint journey of forgiveness and healing and justice.
And I want to thank you so much for taking
the time with us today to share your story and
hopefully provide inspiration and solace to others who might be
in a similar situation. And also hopefully there will be
justice for the two men that were convicted in the
murder of five year old Marcut Yates, someone who certainly
(28:35):
made a huge impact on my life thirty five plus
years ago. We want to say thank you.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
We don't think thank you, Lorraine because you didn't have
to be there that you was there for us from
day one.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Day one, and I think you partners like.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
You and the media partners that provide their platform help
us continuously do the job, help the people that's necessary,
because we can't reach the ears without partners out like
you so well.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Thank you all for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
You can listen to all of today's interviews by going
to our station website and typing in keyword Community. You
can also listen on the iHeartRadio app Hey Words Philadelphia
Community Podcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Lorraine Ballard.
I'm Lorraine Ballard MOREL and I stand for service to
our community and media that empowers. What will you stand for?
(29:23):
You've been listening to Insight and thank you
You're listening to Insight. I'm Lorraine Ballardmorrow. Right now, in
the next few minutes, we're going to have a very
important conversation. It's an important conversation not only to those
who are listening, but certainly for me as well, because
over thirty years ago, there is a young boy named
Marcus Yates who was killed in the crossfire of a
(00:21):
shooting that was in southwest Philadelphia. As a result of that,
I got to know the family very very well. Marcus
Yates was five years old. His brothers were there when
this incident happened. And you go three sixty full circle
and we're all here in the studio together. I'm here
with Shelley Yates Whittington, who is Marcus's mom, Tony Yates,
(00:43):
who is Marcus's brother, and his other brother, Malcolm Yates.
And I just want to say that I've known this
family for over thirty years, and in the course of
that knowledge that knowing this family, I have just seen
some remarkable people that have done so much good in
the commune and are doing so well on their own
despite the tremendous trauma of that incident, which galvanized a
(01:07):
city of Philadelphia sadly, as we look at twenty twenty four,
when we're doing this interview, the death of a child
by gun violence, people they barely pay attention because it's
so common. But when Marcus Yates was killed over thirty
years ago, the city took notice and it was devastating
for the city of Philadelphia. Well, here we are in
(01:29):
twenty twenty four, and there's a new story to tell,
and that is a story of healing and forgiveness. So
I just want to welcome to the studio Shelly Yates Whittington,
who is a pastor and teacher and an activist. Tony Yates,
who was actually one of my interns back in the
day and also worked for Power ninety nine back in
(01:49):
the day and now is a very successful DJ known
as DJ's sole controller. And Malcolm Yates, who again just
extraordinarily was injured during that gun fight and was told
that he may not be able to walk, and here
he is. Not only did he play football in college,
he is now the director of government relations for PHMC
(02:11):
Public Health Management Corporation and who knows he might be
the next mayor of the city Affilidah. Yeah, he is
on his way for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So I'm going to start with you, Shelley, and first
I want to remind folks what the circumstances were, what
brings us here today. Tell us about Marcus Yeates and
what happened.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Okay, thirty five years ago, my little baby boy, Marcus
Yeates was visiting his grandmother in the on sixty fent Springfield,
along with his two brothers. During that time, while me
and his father was working at the Navy yard. We
came home and our life changed forever. We found that
Marcus was shot in the head, Malcolm was shot twice,
(02:51):
and Tony was there to pick up the pieces to
try to save his brother's life by putting his fingers
in the hole of his brother's head. But unfortunately, Mark
has died in the hospital in my arms. And that's
been thirty six years ago that I've been on this
journey of forgiveness. I've been holding on to a lot
of anger and hurt and it was time to let
(03:12):
it go. Yeah, So I'm here now to tell you
about my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, we're gonna get back to you in a second.
Tony eights you were eleven and you were there. I
can't even begin to imagine how traumatic that had to
have been for you. And yet here you are. You're married,
you're a father, you're a husband, you have a successful business,
and you have managed to succeed in life despite the
(03:38):
tremendous trauma that you experienced.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, yeah, what is your memory of Marcus?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Oh, man, my brother was It was just funny man.
He was the life of all of us. He was
the jokester, the bully of us three if you will,
you know, because he whatever Marcus Win and Marcus got
it and he was just a joke that I just
remember a lot of laughter when it comes to him.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's as far as it goes.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, well, that's a wonderful memory to hold on to. Malcolm.
You were seven at the time that this occurred, and
you were injured pretty severely.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
I was shot once in my left hip and in
my right foot.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Right, and they thought you may not be able to
walk again.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Right, Yeah, that was you know, the assumption, because it
shattered my pelvis and exited about a few inches from
my spine and then also on my foot. So it
was a recovery process that took you know, two three
about two months to get recovered. I was in the
hospital from that day until like September, So from July
to September.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I was in the hospital, and yet you were able
to recover and you went on to play sports.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
So God is great man. It didn't slow it down.
I mean I still feel some effects of it today,
but I was able to play some football. I did
some collegiate football, did some arena football, and here I
am walking and talking and just active and still play sports.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah. I have been a full recovery.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
What is your memory of Marcus? You were only seven
at the time.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
But that's the challenging part, right, being so close in age,
the memories as time goes on, you kind of they
kind of fade a little bit, and that there is
the most challenging piece of it, because the memory that
I would love to have may have been lost because
of the gap of time and being so close in age.
(05:30):
So I always just remember he and I just you know,
being so close, always teaming up to try to beat
up Tony. You know, it was always hard to beat
up big bro, and you know, always just tagging along
with big brother to do whatever he was doing, you know,
because he was four years older, so it was always
looking up the tone, trying to russell you know, WWE
and all that good stuff. So we were always swearing
(05:52):
we were the you know, the tag team champions of
the world going against Hawgogan over there.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So it was always good yep, and MARKI was the
ring leader.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Well, my memory of Marcus was simply the picture of him,
that iconic picture with his little smiling face, five year
old Marcus Yates. Who would be thirty five, right or no?
Would he be a little bit forty forty? He would
be forty forty one. What do you want? Yeah, yeah, Well, Shelley,
anyone who's experienced the kind of devastating loss that you
(06:24):
and your family have experienced have to go through, you know,
the process of healing, overcoming the trauma. And of course
nothing will ever take away the pain completely because he's
always going to be in your heart, and that's a
loss that will never be completely healed. However, as we
look at thirty five years later, you made a decision
(06:45):
which is quite monumental, and that is to speak to
the two men who were convicted in Marcus's death, and
I want you to tell us what was on your
mind when you decided that you wanted to meet them,
you wanted to speak to them. What was your ago?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I needed to find out if I actually forgive them. See, I'm,
like I said, I'm an evangelist and I'm on the
road to forgiveness because Christ died for me, and he
forgave me for my sins, So how dare I not
forgive someone else? But even though during that journey, I
couldn't find it in my heart to forgive them because
the pain.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Was so great.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I lost so much and the memories don't go away now,
and I lost everything, even my dad. It was just
you know, he was Marcus's best friend. He died like
a couple of years later. I'm a broken heart. And
then his father died because he couldn't, you know, take
it because Marcus was born on his birthday, So to
(07:42):
know that he did it too towards the Vietnam to
come home and so watch his son die right in
my arms, it was just unbearable. And I just needed
to find some kind of healing. And I know on
his journey and forgiveness it was essential for my spiritual
and my physical health because I cannot no longer hold
on to that anger that I've been going through. And
(08:03):
people think that I go talk and the big places,
but inside I was dying every time, because nobody understands
to have a loss of a child that you've been there.
And because Marcus was my baby boy and only had three,
and then come to find out I was about to
give birth to a little girl nine months later.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I know that was a miracle, right.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It was a miracle, but it was sold. I can't
even give you the words cause I figured I didn't
deserve her, and all that time, I never felt like
I deserve to having another child because I couldn't take
care of the three I had, so too fast forward.
I just asked the Lord to help me, and so
I couldn't sleep. I stayed up. But it's just been
four or five years ago, and before COVID and the
(08:45):
Lord kept talking to me forgive these two forgive, forgive, forgive,
it's just been lay em bettered in my head every
single night. So I said, Lord, okay, I hear you,
and I said, I'm going to go on this journey
of forgiveness. And so during his journey has been very
healing for me as because forgiveness is not for them,
(09:07):
it's for me. I just kept wanted to make sure
that I did everything I can to forgive them, but
it wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So one day the lawyer said, called a prison. So
I called a prison.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And I said, I'm Marcus's mother and I'm the victim's mother,
and I want to make appointment for me to come
down to visit mister Michael Gaynor and mister Ike Johnson.
And he said what I said, Yes, I need to
come and visit them. He said, miss, we never heard
nothing like this before. So he transferred me to somebody else.
(09:41):
And so byttom line, I got to the victim Advocacy
program and Ken and Penny from the victim advocacy program said,
they'll work with me to set up arrangement for me
to meet these.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Two, the two men convicted of killing your son. Yes,
well you actually were able to do that. Yes, you
met with both of them individually. Yes, I did.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
And what happened, Well, when I met with mister Ike Johnson,
first I asked my son or do they mind being
with me? And we wanted. I wanted to go to
the prison, but I know Tony said no prison, kocome Tannisha.
They was open to do it, but I didn't. I
didn't really want to travel that far, and traveling in
that distance was a not for me to do.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, where are they were there? Incarcerated? They're incarcerated, I
don't remember.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Otherwise, that's kind of far.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
It was cold town or something like that. So they're upstate. Paid.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, that was quite a So I couldn't do it
on the same day, so I asked him, can we
do zoom?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And we did soon. Yeah, so you brought Malcolm with you?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yes, Malcolm was there and Tanisha was there. Tony wasn't
there at first. He wasn't there at either time.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So Malcolm, what was that like?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
At first?
Speaker 5 (10:55):
It was very emotional because for me, that was the
first time that I actually got the opportunity to lay
eyes on them as an adult. The last time that
I actually was in the same room or spoken to
either one was in nineteen ninety when I was nine
years old in court, and I never got the opportunity
to conceptualize it or even comprehended as an adult. And
(11:18):
now and as an adult being able to see and
speak to both of them was just like a full
circle moment. He knew everything, you know, He says, Malcolm
is good to see you, and who is that speaking
and this was like Johnson, this is the gentleman who
actually was in the store, who actually fired the weapons,
and amidst that he actually did this, and it was
really like wow, taken back, like you know me, he
(11:42):
knew the story. He knew I mean, of course he
knew it, but it was just you know, he followed us,
He followed us, you know, from what we were doing,
and understood where I was, you know, doing things politically
and through the community. And he knew Tuannisha, he knew Tony.
He called out you know, Micah and Shannon like all
of us, like I was in Grant in his mind
(12:03):
and it was just so like wow, and that really
kind of threw me through a loop. But also I've
been on this information gathering because I was only seven
years old, so I only know the accounts that was
told between the lawyers, between the court, between the media,
and then with my own account. But again, your account
is only from what you're your perspective. You don't know
(12:24):
the background, you don't know the other side of the story.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Finally, maybe in twenty eighteen, Tony, myself and Micah and Shannon,
we finally got together and gave our accounts for the
first time in thirty years. So now hearing it from
the other side of the gun, hearing him and what
he went through and his account through the day, and
he starts off and says, you know, you and I
was never supposed to meet. I didn't come into that
(12:49):
store for this. I was just getting a pineapple soda
on the hot July day. And hearing that piece of
it was just like, Okay, I can release some of
the anger or attention that was in my heart because
I thought they just was coming in there.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Just to just shut up the story.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So, Tony, you weren't able to be at the Zoom calls,
but you're certainly aware of everything that's going on, and
I wonder if you can tell us a little bit
about your own feeling. How do you relate to all
of this that's been unfolding.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
At first, when my mother brought it to my attention
and said that this is the path that she wants
to go down, at the first, I was just like,
I don't know, I don't think I really want to
be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I want to live my life. You know, I don't
want to.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Keep bringing it back and open up the wounds again
and again and again and again. But it seems like
every year the wounds keep open again and again because
every time we get to a milestone, there's something that
we have to do to remember that milestone.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
There's a trigger every year, right, right, right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
So then I thought about it and I was like,
you know, she's right. In order to move on, you
have to forgive. And in order to heal, you have
to forgive. So who am I to judge? And who
am I not to forgive?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Nobody?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And then on top of that, God has already done
blessed me with my son, who is named Marcus.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yes, and he looks so much like him, it's really crazy.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yet, if anyone has never believed in reincarnation, you need
to look at my brother. I mean, look at my son,
because my son is the reincarnation of my brother. God
has given me my brother to raise because the things
that he do, the things that he say, the birthmark,
(14:46):
the stork bite from one hit one side to the other,
the wings that he has on his back as a birthmark,
I mean, these are telltale signs of reincarnation. And when
he was given to me in my life, you know,
and I'm able to raise this my brother. You know,
(15:09):
I'm now looking at this whole thing like we need
to do this. We need to set a precedence for
anyone who's been dealing with the hurt and the pain
and can't get through it, who has the hate in
their heart because of someone that's did them wrong, but
they don't know the story behind the other person. And
then when I was able to hear the story to
(15:31):
get the idea of what happened, what led to this,
I'm looking at it like it could have been me.
It could be me now, especially the account that Michael
Gaynor has given, that could be any one of us
right now just walking and being in the crowd. And
then because I'm guilty by association, now I'm doing life.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
So let's talk about Michael Gaynor, Shelley. The other thing
that came out of this is your understanding that Michael
Gainor was actually wrongfully convicted of the murder of your son. Yes,
so he spent these thirty plus years behind the walls
of the prison where he's incarcerated as an innocent man. Yes,
(16:15):
And so tell us more about that okay.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So when I reached out to him and I finally
got a chance to meet both of them. But I
just met with Michael Gainor on Friday. I didn't know
any of this had happened because they put us out
the courtroom during that time. And so now I found
out that he was framed and he was set up.
The police detective that was supposed to have been really
close to my family, Paul Warrell. They have a whole
story about him framing a whole lot of young black
(16:39):
boys during the eighties, and they are sitting in jail
right now. So I said to him, Michael, I said,
I have to do whatever I can to get you free.
You should not be sitting there for thirty six years
for something you didn't do. Nobody should be in the
prison walls for thirty six years for something they didn't do.
I said, how loo was your She said eighty seven.
(17:01):
I said, I want to be there today that you
get out and give your mother a hug, because I
can't hug markets. But your mother's alive, and I pray
that you will get a chance to see her. And
so after he told me everything, he said, we're connected
as family you're my family, and he thinks about everything.
In nineteen eighty eight. He talks to me like he said,
(17:21):
you're my big sister.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I said, okay, so I'm just.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Like wow and everything. Even with a Johnson, he talks
to me like it was that same day. He put
me right back in the place, and he gave me
all the answers that I ever waited to hear. And
I never heard any of those things until Friday. And
so I told him, if God gives me that, give
me strength, and I get the people to help come
(17:47):
behind me, we're going to get you out of there.
But I told him I love him. I told him
I'm sorry because I didn't know. And if I knew
back then, I would have made sure that he would
we would have found the right.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Person mentioned when we were talking about this previously, that Ike,
the person who admittedly pulled the trigger. When he saw
Michael Gaynor, he said, that's not the guy, Yeah, he said,
but it's not him. That's not him. And yet they
went ahead and convicted him anyway. And that's not an
unfamiliar story.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
No, it's not. So many men are sitting behind bars
and I was looking at the exonerate the series as
on a radio series exam and then I try to
contact the dae yes, and I left messages from them.
I haven't heard back from them, but I guess the
urgency maybe it's not as there it is for me.
I don't want him to spend another day there.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
We're creating that urgency now, you know, now that we
got the story in their account, and then talking to
Michael Gainor and hearing what he has done on his side,
this is what we need to do next, because is wrong,
you know, and for him to sit and stealing in
prison for thirty five years is just unacceptable. So we
want to continue to do what we can do on
(18:56):
the outside and then what he's doing on the inside,
and using our platform and using our resources to say, Okay,
this was our brother and we lost them. Yes, this
happened to our family, but it also is a duality
to it, like, Okay, now we have someone who was
wrongfully convicted, so we have to get him the justice
that he deserves. So he needs to be released. So
my mom has helped reaching out to Larry Krasner. I
(19:18):
also send some emails to the District attorney office. Also
send an email to Lieutenant Governor's office to see what
we can do to hopefully get the sense of urgency
and the priority place higher on this because we definitely
have to do something right.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And just to close the circle, there was another person
who actually you believe is the shooter who has passed away.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Is it right?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, he was never arrested, no, but he's passed away.
And now we have two people, one who's been isolated
from the general population, Ike, because the death, the murder
of a child is the worst thing you can do
in prison. Right, absolutely, but ironically and very tellingly, right,
Michael Gaynor is in the general population. He's not considered
(20:02):
by his fellow inmates as being that person who was
the perpetrator of this murder. And so that's a very
interesting development, Tony. What would you like to see in
the best possible world.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
In the best possible world, I would love to see
Michael Gaynor be as hoonerated. I would like to see
Mike Johnson to be released. And the reason why I
say that is because, again, two sides of every story,
and when you hear his story, all he was doing
was protecting himself.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's all he was doing, was protecting himself, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And and again I sit and I think about it.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
It could have been anybody, any one of us, anybody
hearing him cross the street almost getting hit by a car.
This is like in words, was exchanged. Then he's in
the store and the person comes back into the store
behind him and say what did you say? And then
pull a weapon, And now he's defending himself and we
(21:02):
were just casualties. And for me that was a weight
lifted because this wasn't something between you know, him being reckless.
It was him defending himself. So the person who was
driving the car was the reckless one, and that person
got what he deserved. Still being in the streets, street justice,
street justice prevailed on him, right. But of course what
(21:23):
he was doing was wrong. He was in the streets,
and he had a weapon on him all that. But
still thirty five years with self defense. That's another thing
that we look at like wow.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, And honestly, after you get down the road, like
I said, this is thirty six years now. Yes, you know,
how long are you gonna hold his crutch? How long
are you going to continue to have hate in your heart?
You know, just let it go.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons why some of
us are physically and mentally sick is because of unforgiveness.
After speaking to them, it was not only was a
life changing for me, but it was emotional liberating.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I am no longer bound up the change on my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I'd been holding on those change was wrapped around my
mind for a long time because I didn't get a
chance to grief, as you really know, the newspeople followed
me everywhere I went. I worried about them boys because
they had to hit out on them. I had to
travel three hours to see them. I couldn't do half
the couldn't media half the time because her dad wasn't
ready to deal with it. My whole life changed. And
(22:27):
I'd just been, you know, psychologically so bonded. I was
in bondage. I'm not in bondage anymore. Five years ago
when I wrote him that letter, he read that letter
back to me, I tell you, and after he said,
you try to commit suicide, and I did because.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I couldn't take this.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Who wrote you a letter?
Speaker 4 (22:48):
She wrote a letter to Michael Gainor, actually to both
of them, I guess, and.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Michael Gainor kept that letter, not.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
All the original articles and read the letter verbatim right
back to her. Wo Man, you're talking about touching. It's
just can't fathom.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah. Wow. So I think we have to touch on
the fact that the media can traumatize and re traumatize
over and over, you know, first of all, bringing up
the details over and over again, being intrusive, you know,
probably following you and wanting to talk to you and
all that.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Remember, Malcolm and I was to post a child for
stop the violence and increase the peace. We've been paraded
around Senate d President Hasburg, We've been to post the child,
so they all for this. But also what that being
said is that yes, the media could re traumatize us,
(23:48):
but we've been through it. We've been through the woods,
we've been through the fire. We can speak to truth
to justice, right or it's truth to power, but also
be able to have solution based conversation absolute and that's
where we're at now. For those who are still stuck
in the trauma and angry, we understand we want to
be the mouthpiece and we want to continuously be the
(24:09):
representative to those who can't necessarily tell their story. But
also now on the road of healing, recovery and redumbant,
be there for someone who needs to be reared to
a different direction, because you know, not everyone has the
Lorraine balladmor And I told you every time I talk
to you, every time I have this conversation, regardless, I'm
(24:29):
gonna give you the flowers that you are rightfully given
because you took me from one place to change my life,
absolutely so, and that we need that how media portrays
and tells the story as you and I know we're
going to this sensible gun violence, how to report gun violence.
And the way that you are you've been telling the story,
(24:52):
the way you've been connected to us. We saw you
saw us go from literally from the children.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
You're not only are you grown men, but you're a
successful grown man. I mean you're a powerful man. You know,
you've got family, You've got love, You've you know, it's
my heart is so full just to see the two
of you, and you of course Shelley, and and Tunisia,
your daughter who was born nine months to the day
after Marcus.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
She has passed away doing the same thing. She's she
has own business as well. Cause wonderful taken off.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, well it's it's a beautiful thing, and it's all
about healing and forgiveness and justice. And that's what you
want to want justice. You want justice.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Absolutely, That's all we want is justice. We all, that's
all we've been crusading for.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
We want both of the men, release both of them,
not just one. There are certainly lots of folks out
there who are they've lost loved ones gun violence, because
that's Philly. You know, there's a lot of people who've
lost lost their children and may not see the path
to Absolutely what would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I know we went spoke quite a few different places.
It's Cheney State everywhere. We just was at an event
a week ago. And when I tell them that I'm
on this journey, I get those looks. My son can
tell you, they give me this gas for like, are
you crazy? Why would you forgive those people? And I say,
I'm thirty five years in and you're just a year,
a month's couple months, And I understand how you feel,
(26:25):
But I got to live my journey and I'm there
for you. I give them hugs and comfort and prayer
and whatever they need from me, I'll give it to them.
But I can't go back thirty five years ago. I
just got to move forward and I got to do
what God called me to do. They have to be freed.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
It's not right.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Justice is justice. I'm concerned about my boys, my daughters.
Every chance I don't hear from Is that because of markets, yes,
but also because they're black men in America?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And I feel the pain of these mothers who lost
their children, boys and girls and whoever. But I have
to work on end of the avenue now. I gotta
move forward, and like you said, the other part to this,
and I'm working on that part now.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Freedom. Thank you all so much for joining us here today.
Shelley Yates Whittington, who is the mother of Marcus Yates,
who was killed over thirty five years ago at the
age of five in an incident that has cascaded into
a journey of healing and forgiveness for the whole family.
(27:29):
Shelley Yates a pastor, a teacher, and on her path
to forgiveness and healing. Tony Yates successful. Dj A, Dad,
I think I saw some prom pictures of your daughter. Gorgeous, Oh, gorgeous. Yeah,
And I just love you, know, I follow you on
Facebook and I just love seeing what a great dad
(27:50):
and a great husband you are just a beautiful thing.
Tony Yates and Malcolm, I feel like you know, Congress,
send President President lives to God's ears. Definitely the path
is open for you. You're currently director of government relations for
Public Health Management Corporation. You were seven years old when
your brother was killed, Tony was eleven, and you're all
(28:13):
on this joint journey of forgiveness and healing and justice.
And I want to thank you so much for taking
the time with us today to share your story and
hopefully provide inspiration and solace to others who might be
in a similar situation. And also hopefully there will be
justice for the two men that were convicted in the
murder of five year old Marcut Yates, someone who certainly
(28:35):
made a huge impact on my life thirty five plus
years ago. We want to say thank you.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
We don't think thank you, Lorraine because you didn't have
to be there that you was there for us from
day one.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Day one, and I think you partners like.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
You and the media partners that provide their platform help
us continuously do the job, help the people that's necessary,
because we can't reach the ears without partners out like
you so well.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Thank you all for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
You can listen to all of today's interviews by going
to our station website and typing in keyword Community. You
can also listen on the iHeartRadio app Hey Words Philadelphia
Community Podcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Lorraine Ballard.
I'm Lorraine Ballard MOREL and I stand for service to
our community and media that empowers. What will you stand for?
(29:23):
You've been listening to Insight and thank you
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