January 3, 2025 • 30 mins
We re-air an interview originally broadcast in August of 2024.
In 1988, 5-year-old Marcus Yates was caught in crossfire inside a corner store in Southwest Philadelphia. While the deaths of children to gun violence have become tragically commonplace, Marcus's death at that time galvanized the city and inspired me and many others to work to end gun violence. Over three decades later, the family took a courageous step toward healing by meeting with the men convicted in the shooting. In a surprising turn, the family concluded that while Ike Johnson admitted to being involved, citing self-defense, Michael Gaynor was wrongfully convicted. The Yates family has committed to proving his innocence. I spoke to Marcus's mom, Shelly Yates Whittington, and her two sons, Tony and Malcolm Yates, about their journey of healing and reconciliation. Here is a link to a follow up interview with Inquirer Reporter Barbara Laker who wrote a powerful six part series about evidence that Gaynor was not at the scene of Marcus Yates murder and the family's efforts to work for Gaynor's release.
In 1988, 5-year-old Marcus Yates was caught in crossfire inside a corner store in Southwest Philadelphia. While the deaths of children to gun violence have become tragically commonplace, Marcus's death at that time galvanized the city and inspired me and many others to work to end gun violence. Over three decades later, the family took a courageous step toward healing by meeting with the men convicted in the shooting. In a surprising turn, the family concluded that while Ike Johnson admitted to being involved, citing self-defense, Michael Gaynor was wrongfully convicted. The Yates family has committed to proving his innocence. I spoke to Marcus's mom, Shelly Yates Whittington, and her two sons, Tony and Malcolm Yates, about their journey of healing and reconciliation. Here is a link to a follow up interview with Inquirer Reporter Barbara Laker who wrote a powerful six part series about evidence that Gaynor was not at the scene of Marcus Yates murder and the family's efforts to work for Gaynor's release.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to What's going on, a show
about making a difference in our lives and our communities.
I'm Lorraine Balladmorrow. Last week I aired an interview with
Philadelphia Inquiry reporter Barbara Laker about her six part series
investigating the nineteen eighty eight murder of five year old
Marcus Yates and the compelling evidence suggesting that one of
(00:20):
the men serving a life sentence for the crime is innocent.
The series was inspired by the Yates family's remarkable journey
of healing, which included meeting with the two men serving
time for Marcus's death. Today, I'm re airing my original
August interview with the Yates family, offering deeper insight into
their powerful story. In the next few minutes, we're going
to have a very important conversation. It's an important conversation
(00:45):
not only to those who are listening, but certainly for
me as well, because over thirty years ago, there is
a young boy named Marcus Yates who was killed in
the crossfire of a drug shooting that was in Southwest Philadelphia.
As a result of that, I got to know the
family very very well. Marcus Yates was five years old.
His brothers were there when this incident happened, and you
(01:07):
go three sixty full circle and we're all here in
the studio together. I'm here with Shelley Yates Whittington, who
is Marcus's mom, Tony Yates, who is Marcus's brother, and
his other brother, Malcolm Yates, And I just want to
say that I've known this family for over thirty years,
and in the course of that knowledge that knowing this family,
(01:29):
I have just seen some remarkable people that have done
so much good in the community and are doing so
well on their own despite the tremendous trauma of that
incident which galvanized the city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Sadly, as we look.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
At twenty twenty four, when we're doing this interview, the
death of a child by gun violence, people they barely
pay attention because it's so common. But when Marcus Yates
was killed over thirty years ago, the city took notice
and it was devastating for the city of Philadelphia. Well,
here we are in twenty twenty four, and there's a
(02:05):
new story to tell, and that is a story of
healing and forgiveness. So I just want to welcome to
the studio Shelley Yates, Whittington, who is a pastor and
teacher and an activist. Tony Yates, who was actually one
of my interns back in the day and also worked
for Power ninety nine back in the day and now
is a very successful DJ known as DJ's sole Controller.
(02:29):
And Malcolm Yates, who again just extraordinarily was injured during
that gunfight and was told that he may not be
able to walk, and here he is. Not only did
he play football in college, he is now the director
of government relations for PHMC Public Health Management Corporation, and
who knows he might be the next mayor of.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
The city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
He is on his way for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So I'm going to start with you, Shelley, and first
I want to remind folks with a circumstance, this is
what brings us here today. Tell us about Marcus Yates
and what happened.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Okay, thirty five years ago, my little baby boy, Marcus
Yates was visiting his grandmother in the ad on sixtieth
in Springfield along with his two brothers. During that time,
while me and his father was working at the Navy Yard.
We came home and our life changed forever. We found
that Marcus was shot in the head. Malcolm was shot twice,
(03:26):
and Tony was there to pick up the pieces to
try to save his brother's life by putting his fingers
in the hole of his brother's head. But unfortunately, Marcus
died in the hospital in my arms. And that's been
thirty six years ago that I've been on this journey
of forgiveness. I've been holding on to a lot of
anger and hurt and it was time to let it go. Yeah,
(03:47):
So I'm here now to tell you about my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, we're gonna get back to you in a second,
Tony Yates. You were eleven and you were there. I
can't even begin to imagine how traumatic that had to
have been for you. And yet here you are. You're married,
you're a father, you're a husband, you have a successful business,
and you have managed to succeed in life despite the
(04:12):
tremendous trauma that you experienced.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, yeah, what is your memory of Marcus?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Oh? Man?
Speaker 6 (04:22):
My brother was It was just funny man. He was
the life of all of us. He was the jokester,
the bully of us three. If you will, you though,
because he whatever, Marcus went and Marcus got it and he.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Was just a jokes.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
I just remember a lot of laughter when it comes
to him. That's as far as it goes.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, well that's a wonderful memory to hold on to. Malcolm.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
You were seven at the time that this occurred, and
you were injured pretty severely.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Absolutely. I was shot once in my left hip in
my right foot.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right, and they thought you may not be able to
walk again, right.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Yeah, that was you know, the assumption, because it shattered
my pelvis and exited about a few inches from my
spine and then also on my foot. So it was
a recovery process that took you know, two three, about
two months to get recovered. I was in the hospital
from that day until like September, So from July to
September I was in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And yet you were able to recover and you went
on to play sports.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah. So God is great man. It didn't slow it down.
I mean I still feel some effects of it today,
but I was able to play some football. I did
some collegiate football, did some arena football, and now here
I am walking and talking and just active and still
play sports. Yeah. I have been a full recovery.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
What is your memory of Marcus you were only seven
at the time.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
But that's the challenging part, right, being so close in age.
The memories as time goes on, you kind of they
kind of fade a little bit, and that there is
the most challenging piece of it, because the memory that
I would love to have may have been lost because
of the gap of time and being so close in age.
(06:04):
So I always just remember he and I just you know,
being so close, always teaming up to try to beat
up Tony. You know, it was always hard to beat
up big Bro, and you know, always just tagging along
with big brother to do whatever he was doing, you know,
because he was four years older. So it was always
looking up the tone, trying to russell you know, WWE
and all that good stuff. So we were always swearing
(06:26):
we were the you know, the tag team champions of
the world, going against Hawkogan over there. So it was
always good yep, and MARKI was the ring leader.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, my memory of Marcus was simply the picture of
him with that iconic picture with his little smiling face.
My year old Marcus Yates, who would be thirty five,
right or no, would he be a little bit forty forty?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
He would be four forty one.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
What do you want?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, forty Yeah, Well, Shelley, anyone who's experienced the kind
of devastating loss that you and your family have experienced
have to go through the process of healing, overcoming the trauma.
And of course, nothing will ever take away the pain
completely because he's always going to be in your hearts,
(07:12):
and that's a loss that will never be completely healed. However,
as we look at thirty five years later, you made
a decision which is quite monumental, and that is to
speak to the two men who were convicted in Marcus's death.
And I want you to tell us what was on
your mind when you decided that you wanted to meet them.
(07:32):
You wanted to speak to them.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
What was your goal?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
I needed to find out if I actually forgive them. See, I'm,
like I said, I'm a bangelist and I'm one of
the road to forgiveness because Christ died for me and
he forgave me for my sins, So how dare I
not forgive someone else? But even though during that journey,
I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive them
because the pain.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Was so great.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
I lost so much and the memories don't go way
and I lost everything, even my dad. It was his
you know, he was Marcus's best friend. He died like
a couple of years later. I'm a broken heart. And
then his father died because he couldn't, you know, take it.
Because Marcus was born on his birthday, so to know
(08:16):
that he did two towards the Vietnam to come home
and so watch his son die right in my arms,
it was just unbearable and I just needed to find
some kind of healing. And I know on his journey
of forgiveness it was essential for my spiritual and my
physical health because I cannot no longer hold.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
On to that anger that I've been going through.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
And people think that I go talk and big places,
but inside I was dying every time because nobody understands
to have a loss of a child that you've been there,
and because Marcus was my baby boy and only had
three and then come to find out I have to
give birth to a little girl nine months later.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I know that a miracle.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
It was a miracle, but it was so I can't
even give you the words because I figured I didn't
deserve her, and all that time, it never felt like
I deserve to having another child because I couldn't take
care of the three I had, so.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Too fast forward. I just asked the Lord to help me,
and so I couldn't sleep. I stayed up.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
But it's it's been four or five years ago and
before the COVID and the Lord kept talking to me
forgive these two, forgive, forgive, forgive. It's just been was
like embedded in my head every single night. So I said, Lord, okay,
I hear you, and I said, I'm going to go
on this journey of forgiveness. And so during this journey
has been very healing for me as it because forgiveness
(09:40):
is not for them, it's for me. I just kept
wanted to make sure that I did everything I can
to forgive them, but it wasn't good enough.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So one day the Lord said, called the prison. So
I called a prison.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
And I said, I'm Marcus's mother and I'm the victim's mother,
and I want to make appointment for me to come
down to visit mister Michael Gainner and mister Ike Johnson.
And he said what I said, Yes, I need to
come and visit them. He said, miss, we never heard
nothing like this before. So he transferred me to somebody else,
(10:15):
and so bottom line, I got to the victim Advocacy
program and Ken and Penny from the Victim Advocacy Program said,
they'll work with me to set up arrangement for me
to meet these two.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
The two men convicted of killing your son. Yes, well
you actually were able to do that. Yes, we met
with both of them individually.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
And what happened, Well, when I met with mister Ike Johnson.
First I asked my son to or do they mind
being with me? And we want I wanted to go
to the prison, but I know Tony said no prison.
Malcolm and Tunisia they was open to do it, but
I didn't. I didn't really want to travel that far
and traveling in that distance was not for me to do.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, where are they? Were there?
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Incarcerat incarcerated inn SI Huntington.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I don't remember.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
It's kind of far.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
It was cold town or something like that. So were
their upstate page?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Yes, that was quite so I couldn't do it on
the same day, so I asked him could we do zoom?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And we did zoom.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, So you brought Malcolm, did you?
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Yes, Malcolm was there and Tanisha was there. Tony wasn't
there at first. He wasn't there at either time.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So Malcolm, what was that like?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
At first? It was very emotional because for me, that
was the first time that I actually got the opportunity
to lay eyes on them as an adult. The last
time that I actually was in the same room or
spoken to either one was in nineteen ninety when I
was nine years old in court, and I never got
the opportunity to conceptualize it or even comprehended as an adult.
(11:52):
And now and as an adult, being able to see
and speak to both of them was just like a
full circle moment. He knew everything, you know, he says, Malcolm,
is good to see you. And and and this was
like Johnson, this is the gentleman who actually was in
the store, who actually fired the weapons, and amidst that
he actually did this, and it was really like wow,
(12:14):
taken back, like you know me, he knew the story,
he knew I mean, of course he knew it, but
it was just you know, he followed us, He followed us,
you know, from what we were doing, and understood where
I was, you know, doing things politically and through the community.
And he knew Tunisia. He knew Tony. He called out,
you know, Micah and Shannon, like all of us, like
it was in grant in his mind, and it was
(12:37):
just so like wow, and that really kind of threw
me through a loop. But also, I've been on this
information gathering because I was only seven years old, so
I only know the accounts that was told between the lawyers,
between the court, between the media, and then with my
own account. But again, your account is only from what
you're your perspective. You don't know the background, you don't
(13:00):
know the other side of the story. You know. Finally,
maybe in twenty eighteen, Tony, myself and Micah and Shannon,
we finally got together and gave our accounts for the
first time in thirty years. So now hearing it from
the other side of the gun, hearing him and what
he went through and his account through the day, and
he starts off and says that you know, you and
(13:21):
I was never supposed to meet. I didn't come into
that store for this. I was just getting a pineapple
soda on the hot July day. And hearing that piece
of it was just like, Okay, I can release some
of the anger or tension that was in my heart.
Because I thought they just was coming in there just
to just.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Shut up the store.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, exactly, So, Tony, you weren't able to be at
the Zoom calls, but you're certainly aware of everything that's
going on, and I wonder if you can tell us
a little bit about your own feeling. How do you
relate to all of this that's been unfolding.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
At first, when my mother brought it to my attention,
said that this is the path that she wants to
go down. At the first, I was just like, I
don't know. I don't think I really want to be
a part of it. I want to live my life,
you know. I don't want to keep bringing back and
open up the wounds again and again and again and again.
(14:16):
But it seems like every year the wounds keep open
again and again because every time we get to a milestone,
there's something that we have to do to remember that milestone.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
There's a trigger every year, right right, right.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
So then I thought about it and I was like,
you know, she's right. In order to move on, you
have to forgive, and in order to heal, you have
to forgive. So who am I to judge and who
am I not to forgive?
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Nobody.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
And then on top of that, God has already done
blessed me with my son who is named Marcus.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yes, and he looks so much like him. It's really crazy,
really spitting of rich.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Yet if I have, if anyone had never believed in reincarnation,
you need to look at my brother. I mean, look
at my son, because my son is the reincarnation of
my brother. God has given me my brother to raise
because the things that he do, the things that he say,
(15:18):
the birthmark, the stork bite from one hit one side
to the other, the wings that he has on his
back as a birthmark, I mean, these are telltale signs
of reincarnation. And when he was given to me in
my life, you know, and I'm able to raise this
(15:40):
my brother. You know, I'm now looking at this whole
thing like we need to do this. We need to
set a precedence for anyone who's been dealing with the
hurt and the pain and can't get through it, who
has the hate in their heart because of someone that's
did them wrong, but they don't know the story by
behind of the person. Yes, and then when I was
(16:03):
able to hear the story to get the idea of
what happened, what led to this. I'm looking at it
like it could have been me. It could be me now,
especially the account that Michael Gaynor has given, That could
be any one of us right now just walking and
being in the crowd. And then because I'm guilty by association,
(16:25):
now I'm doing life.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So let's talk about Michael Gaynor, Shelley. The other thing
that came out of this is your understanding that Michael
Gaynor was actually wrongfully convicted of the murder of your son.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yes, so he.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Spent these thirty plus years behind the walls of the
prison where he's incarcerated as an innocent man. Yes, And
so tell us more about that.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
So when I reached out to him and I got
finally got a chance to meet both of them. But
I just met with Michael Gaynor on Friday. I didn't
know any of this it happened because they put us
out the courtroom during that time. And so now I
found out that he was framed, that he was set up.
The leict detective that was supposed to have been really
close to my family, Paul Worel. They have a whole
story about him framing, a whole lot of young black
(17:13):
boys during the eighties, and they are sitting in jail
right now. So I said to him, Michael, I said,
I have to do whatever I can to get you free.
You should not be sitting there for thirty six years
for something you didn't do. Nobody should be in the
prison walls for thirty six years for something they didn't do.
I said, how long was your mother? She said eighty seven.
(17:35):
I said, I want to be there today that you
get out and give your mother a hug, because I
can't hug markets. But your mother's alive, and I pray
that you will get a chance to see her. And
so after he told me everything, he said, we're connected
as family. You're my family, and he thinks about everything
in nineteen eighty eight. He talks to me like he said,
(17:56):
you're my big sister. I said, okay, I'm just like
wow and everything, even with a Johnson. He talks to
me like it was that same day. He put me
right back in the place, and he gave me all
the answers that I ever waited to hear. And I
never heard any of those things until Friday. And so
(18:16):
I told him God give me that, give me strength,
and I get the people to help come behind me.
We're going to get you out of there. But I
told him I love him. I told him I'm sorry
because I didn't know. And if I knew back then,
I would have made sure that he would we would
have found the right person.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Well, you mentioned when we were talking about this previously,
that Ike, the person who admittedly pulled the trigger. When
he saw Michael Gainer, he said, that's not the guy.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, he said, but it's not him.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's not him.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And yet they went ahead and convicted him anyway, And
that's not an unfamiliar story.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
No, it's not. So many men are sitting behind bars.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
And I was looking at the exonerated series as on
a radio series, exem and then I try to contact
the da uh yes, and I left message just for them.
I haven't heard back from them, but I guess the
urgency maybe it's not as there it is for me.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I don't want him to spend another day there.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
We're creating that urgency now, you know, now that we
got the story in their account and then talking to
Michael Gainor and hearing what he has done on his side,
this is what we need to do next, because is
wrong you know, and for him to sit and steering
in prison for thirty five years, it's just unacceptable. So
we want to continue to do what we can do
(19:30):
on the outside and then what he's doing on the inside,
and using our platforms and using our resources to say, Okay,
this was our brother and we lost them. Yes, this
has happened to our family. But it also is a
duality to it, like, Okay, now we have someone who
was wrongfully convicted, so we have to get him the
justice that he deserves. So he needs to be released.
So my mom has helped reaching out to Larry Krasner.
(19:52):
I also send some emails to the District attorney office,
also send an email to the Lieutenant Governor's office to
see what we can do hopefully get the sense of
urgency in the priority place higher on this because we definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Have to do something right and just to close the circle.
There was another person who actually you believe is the shooter.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Who has passed away. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yes? He was never arrested, No, but he's passed away.
And now we have two people, one who's been isolated
from the general population. Ike because the death, the murder
of a child is the worst thing you.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Can do in prison.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Rightly, but ironically and very tellingly, right Michael Gaynor is
in the general population, He's not considered by his fellow
inmates as being that person who was the perpetrator of
this murder. And so that's a very interesting development, Tony,
what would you like to see in the best possible world.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
In the best possible world, I would love to see
Michael Gaynor be as hoonerated. I would like to see
Mike Johnson to be released. And the reason why I
say that, it's because again his two sides of every story,
and when you hear his story, all he was doing
was protecting himself.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
That's all he was doing. He was protecting himself, you know.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
And and again I sit and I think about it.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It could have been anybody, any one of us, anybody
hearing him cross the street almost getting hit by a car.
This is like and words was exchanged. Then he's in
the store and the person comes back into the store
behind him and say what did you say? And then
pull a weapon. And then now he's defending himself and
we were just casualties. And and for me, that was
(21:39):
a weight lifted, because this wasn't something between you know,
him being reckless. It was him defending himself. So the
person who was driving the car was the reckless one,
like and that person got what he deserved, still being
in the streets, street street justice prevailed on him. But
of course what he was doing was wrong. He was
in the streets and he had a weapon on them.
(22:00):
All that, but still thirty five years with self defense.
That's another thing that we look at like wow.
Speaker 6 (22:06):
Yeah, And honestly, after you get down the road, like
I said, this is thirty six years now. Yes, you
know how long you want to hold this crutch? How
long are you going to continue to have hate in
your heart? You know, just let it go.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons why some of
us are physically and mentally sick is because of unforgiveness
they have to.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Speaking to them.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
It was not only was it life changing for me,
but it was emotional liberating. I am no longer bound
up in changed on my mind. I been holding on
those change was wrapped around my mind for a long
time because I didn't get a.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Chance to grief.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
As you really know, the newspeople followed me everywhere I went.
I worried about them, boys because they had to hit
out on them. I had to travel three hours to
see them. I couldn't do half the couldn't media half
the time. Because your dad wasn't ready to deal with it.
My whole life changed and I'd just been, you know,
psychologically so bonded. I was in bondage. I'm not in
(23:08):
bondage anymore. Five years ago when I wrote him that letter,
he read that letter back to me, I tell you,
and after he said, you try to commit suicide, and
I did because I couldn't take this. Who wrote you
a letter?
Speaker 6 (23:22):
She wrote a letter to Michael Gainer, actually to both
of them, I guess, and Michael Gainor kept that letter
all the original all the original articles, and read the
letter verbatim right back to her.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
WO.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Man, you talking about touching, It's just.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
So I think we have to touch on the fact
that the media can traumatize and re traumatize over and over,
you know, first of all, bringing up the details over
and over again, being intrusive, you know, probably following you
and wanting to talk to you, and all that.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
I remember, Malcolm, I was the post a child for
stop the violence and increase the peace. We've been paraded
around Senate President Harrisburg. We've been to post the child
for this. But also what that being said is that yes,
(24:20):
the media could re traumatize us, but we've been through it.
We've been through the woods, we've been through the fire.
We can speak to truth to justice right or is
truth to power, but also be able to have solution
based conversation. Absolutely, and that's where we're at now. Where
for those who are still stuck in the trauma and angry,
we understand we want to be the mouthpiece and we
(24:41):
want to continuously be the representative to those who can't
necessarily tell their story, but also now on the road
of healing, recovery and redombant, be there for someone who
needs to be reared to a different direction, because you know,
not everyone has the Lorraine balladmoral. I told you every
time I talk to you, every time I have this conversation, regardless,
(25:03):
I'm gonna give you the flowers that you are rightfully
given because you took me from one place to change
my life.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Absolutely so, and talking that we need that how media
portrays and tells the story right as you and I know,
we're going to this sensible gun violence, how to report
gun violence. Yes, yeah, yeah, and the way that you are,
you've been telling the story, the way you've been connected
to us. We saw you saw us go from literally
from the child.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So now you're not only are you grown men, but
you're a successful grown man. I mean, you're a powerful man.
You know, you've got family, You've got love, you've you know,
it's my heart is so full just to see the
two of you, and you of course Shelley and Tunisia,
your daughter who was born nine months to the day
after Marcus, she.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Has passed away doing the same thing. She's she has
her own business as well, cause she creates wonderful.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, it's it's a beautiful thing. And it's all about
healing and forgiveness and justice. And that's what you want
to do.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
You want justice.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You want justice.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Absolutely, That's all we want is justice. We all that's
all we've been crusading for.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
We want both of them, men, release both of them,
not just one.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
There's certainly lots of folks out there who are they've
lost loved ones to gun violence, because that's Philly. You know,
there's a lot of people who've lost lost their children
and may not see the path to healing.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Absolutely, what would you say to that?
Speaker 5 (26:36):
I know we went spoke quite a different places. It's
Cheneye State, everywhere. We just was at an event that
we could go. And when I tell them that I'm
on this journey, I get those looks.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
My son could tell you.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
They give me this gasp, but like, are you crazy?
Why would you forgive those people? And I said, I'm
thirty five years in and you're just a year, a month,
couple months, And I understand how you feel.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
But I got to live my journey and I'm there
for you.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
I give them hugs and comfort and prayer and whatever
they need from me, I'll give it to them. But
I can't go back thirty five years ago. I just
got to move forward, and I got to do what
God called me to do. They have to be freed.
It's not right. Justice is justice. I'm concerned about my boys,
my daughters. Every chance I don't hear from Is that
(27:22):
because of markets, yes, but also because they're black men
in America. And I feel the pain of these mothers
who lost their children and boys and girls and whoever.
But I have to work on another avenue now. I
gotta move forward, and like he said, the other part
to this and I'm working on that part now.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Freedom.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Thank you all so much for joining us here today.
Shelley Yates Whittington, who is the mother of Marcus Yates,
who is killed over thirty five years ago, Yes, at
the age of five, in an incident that has cascaded
into a journey of healing and forgiveness for the whole family.
Shelley Yates a pastor, a teacher, and on her path
(28:07):
to forgiveness and healing. Tony Yates successful DJ A dad.
I think I saw some prom pictures of yours daughter. Gorgeous, Oh, gorgeous. Yeah,
And I just love you, know. I follow you on
Facebook and I just love seeing what a great dad
and a great husband you are.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Just a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Tony Yates and Malcolm, I feel like you know, Congress.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Senate, President, President.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Definitely the path is open for you. You're currently director
of government relations for Public Health Management Corporation. You were
seven years old when your brother was killed. Tony was eleven,
and you're all on this joint journey of forgiveness and
healing and justice. And I want to thank you so
much for taking the time with us today to share
(28:55):
your story and hopefully provide inspiration and solace to others
who might be in a similar situation. And also hopefully
there will be justice for the two men that were
convicted in the murder of five year old marcut Siets,
someone who certainly made a huge impact on my life
thirty five plus years ago.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And we want to say thank you absolutely all.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Th Thank you, Lorraine, because you didn't have to be here,
did you was there for us from day one.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
From day one?
Speaker 3 (29:21):
And I thank you and partners like.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
You and the media partners that provide their platform help
us continuously do the job help the people that's necessary
because we can't reach the ears without partners out.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Well, thank you all for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Thank you all.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
You could listen to all of today's interviews by going
to our station website and typing in keyword Community. You
can also listen on the iHeartRadio app yy Words Philadelphia
Community Podcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Lorraine Ballard.
I'm Lorraine Ballard Morrow and I stand for service to
our community and media that empowers. What will you stand for?
(29:57):
You've been listening to Insight and thank you King
Good morning, and welcome to What's going on, a show
about making a difference in our lives and our communities.
I'm Lorraine Balladmorrow. Last week I aired an interview with
Philadelphia Inquiry reporter Barbara Laker about her six part series
investigating the nineteen eighty eight murder of five year old
Marcus Yates and the compelling evidence suggesting that one of
(00:20):
the men serving a life sentence for the crime is innocent.
The series was inspired by the Yates family's remarkable journey
of healing, which included meeting with the two men serving
time for Marcus's death. Today, I'm re airing my original
August interview with the Yates family, offering deeper insight into
their powerful story. In the next few minutes, we're going
to have a very important conversation. It's an important conversation
(00:45):
not only to those who are listening, but certainly for
me as well, because over thirty years ago, there is
a young boy named Marcus Yates who was killed in
the crossfire of a drug shooting that was in Southwest Philadelphia.
As a result of that, I got to know the
family very very well. Marcus Yates was five years old.
His brothers were there when this incident happened, and you
(01:07):
go three sixty full circle and we're all here in
the studio together. I'm here with Shelley Yates Whittington, who
is Marcus's mom, Tony Yates, who is Marcus's brother, and
his other brother, Malcolm Yates, And I just want to
say that I've known this family for over thirty years,
and in the course of that knowledge that knowing this family,
(01:29):
I have just seen some remarkable people that have done
so much good in the community and are doing so
well on their own despite the tremendous trauma of that
incident which galvanized the city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Sadly, as we look.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
At twenty twenty four, when we're doing this interview, the
death of a child by gun violence, people they barely
pay attention because it's so common. But when Marcus Yates
was killed over thirty years ago, the city took notice
and it was devastating for the city of Philadelphia. Well,
here we are in twenty twenty four, and there's a
(02:05):
new story to tell, and that is a story of
healing and forgiveness. So I just want to welcome to
the studio Shelley Yates, Whittington, who is a pastor and
teacher and an activist. Tony Yates, who was actually one
of my interns back in the day and also worked
for Power ninety nine back in the day and now
is a very successful DJ known as DJ's sole Controller.
(02:29):
And Malcolm Yates, who again just extraordinarily was injured during
that gunfight and was told that he may not be
able to walk, and here he is. Not only did
he play football in college, he is now the director
of government relations for PHMC Public Health Management Corporation, and
who knows he might be the next mayor of.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
The city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
He is on his way for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So I'm going to start with you, Shelley, and first
I want to remind folks with a circumstance, this is
what brings us here today. Tell us about Marcus Yates
and what happened.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Okay, thirty five years ago, my little baby boy, Marcus
Yates was visiting his grandmother in the ad on sixtieth
in Springfield along with his two brothers. During that time,
while me and his father was working at the Navy Yard.
We came home and our life changed forever. We found
that Marcus was shot in the head. Malcolm was shot twice,
(03:26):
and Tony was there to pick up the pieces to
try to save his brother's life by putting his fingers
in the hole of his brother's head. But unfortunately, Marcus
died in the hospital in my arms. And that's been
thirty six years ago that I've been on this journey
of forgiveness. I've been holding on to a lot of
anger and hurt and it was time to let it go. Yeah,
(03:47):
So I'm here now to tell you about my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, we're gonna get back to you in a second,
Tony Yates. You were eleven and you were there. I
can't even begin to imagine how traumatic that had to
have been for you. And yet here you are. You're married,
you're a father, you're a husband, you have a successful business,
and you have managed to succeed in life despite the
(04:12):
tremendous trauma that you experienced.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, yeah, what is your memory of Marcus?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Oh? Man?
Speaker 6 (04:22):
My brother was It was just funny man. He was
the life of all of us. He was the jokester,
the bully of us three. If you will, you though,
because he whatever, Marcus went and Marcus got it and he.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Was just a jokes.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
I just remember a lot of laughter when it comes
to him. That's as far as it goes.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, well that's a wonderful memory to hold on to. Malcolm.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
You were seven at the time that this occurred, and
you were injured pretty severely.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Absolutely. I was shot once in my left hip in
my right foot.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right, and they thought you may not be able to
walk again, right.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Yeah, that was you know, the assumption, because it shattered
my pelvis and exited about a few inches from my
spine and then also on my foot. So it was
a recovery process that took you know, two three, about
two months to get recovered. I was in the hospital
from that day until like September, So from July to
September I was in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And yet you were able to recover and you went
on to play sports.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah. So God is great man. It didn't slow it down.
I mean I still feel some effects of it today,
but I was able to play some football. I did
some collegiate football, did some arena football, and now here
I am walking and talking and just active and still
play sports. Yeah. I have been a full recovery.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
What is your memory of Marcus you were only seven
at the time.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
But that's the challenging part, right, being so close in age.
The memories as time goes on, you kind of they
kind of fade a little bit, and that there is
the most challenging piece of it, because the memory that
I would love to have may have been lost because
of the gap of time and being so close in age.
(06:04):
So I always just remember he and I just you know,
being so close, always teaming up to try to beat
up Tony. You know, it was always hard to beat
up big Bro, and you know, always just tagging along
with big brother to do whatever he was doing, you know,
because he was four years older. So it was always
looking up the tone, trying to russell you know, WWE
and all that good stuff. So we were always swearing
(06:26):
we were the you know, the tag team champions of
the world, going against Hawkogan over there. So it was
always good yep, and MARKI was the ring leader.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, my memory of Marcus was simply the picture of
him with that iconic picture with his little smiling face.
My year old Marcus Yates, who would be thirty five,
right or no, would he be a little bit forty forty?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
He would be four forty one.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
What do you want?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, forty Yeah, Well, Shelley, anyone who's experienced the kind
of devastating loss that you and your family have experienced
have to go through the process of healing, overcoming the trauma.
And of course, nothing will ever take away the pain
completely because he's always going to be in your hearts,
(07:12):
and that's a loss that will never be completely healed. However,
as we look at thirty five years later, you made
a decision which is quite monumental, and that is to
speak to the two men who were convicted in Marcus's death.
And I want you to tell us what was on
your mind when you decided that you wanted to meet them.
(07:32):
You wanted to speak to them.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
What was your goal?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
I needed to find out if I actually forgive them. See, I'm,
like I said, I'm a bangelist and I'm one of
the road to forgiveness because Christ died for me and
he forgave me for my sins, So how dare I
not forgive someone else? But even though during that journey,
I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive them
because the pain.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Was so great.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
I lost so much and the memories don't go way
and I lost everything, even my dad. It was his
you know, he was Marcus's best friend. He died like
a couple of years later. I'm a broken heart. And
then his father died because he couldn't, you know, take it.
Because Marcus was born on his birthday, so to know
(08:16):
that he did two towards the Vietnam to come home
and so watch his son die right in my arms,
it was just unbearable and I just needed to find
some kind of healing. And I know on his journey
of forgiveness it was essential for my spiritual and my
physical health because I cannot no longer hold.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
On to that anger that I've been going through.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
And people think that I go talk and big places,
but inside I was dying every time because nobody understands
to have a loss of a child that you've been there,
and because Marcus was my baby boy and only had
three and then come to find out I have to
give birth to a little girl nine months later.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I know that a miracle.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
It was a miracle, but it was so I can't
even give you the words because I figured I didn't
deserve her, and all that time, it never felt like
I deserve to having another child because I couldn't take
care of the three I had, so.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Too fast forward. I just asked the Lord to help me,
and so I couldn't sleep. I stayed up.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
But it's it's been four or five years ago and
before the COVID and the Lord kept talking to me
forgive these two, forgive, forgive, forgive. It's just been was
like embedded in my head every single night. So I said, Lord, okay,
I hear you, and I said, I'm going to go
on this journey of forgiveness. And so during this journey
has been very healing for me as it because forgiveness
(09:40):
is not for them, it's for me. I just kept
wanted to make sure that I did everything I can
to forgive them, but it wasn't good enough.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So one day the Lord said, called the prison. So
I called a prison.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
And I said, I'm Marcus's mother and I'm the victim's mother,
and I want to make appointment for me to come
down to visit mister Michael Gainner and mister Ike Johnson.
And he said what I said, Yes, I need to
come and visit them. He said, miss, we never heard
nothing like this before. So he transferred me to somebody else,
(10:15):
and so bottom line, I got to the victim Advocacy
program and Ken and Penny from the Victim Advocacy Program said,
they'll work with me to set up arrangement for me
to meet these two.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
The two men convicted of killing your son. Yes, well
you actually were able to do that. Yes, we met
with both of them individually.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
And what happened, Well, when I met with mister Ike Johnson.
First I asked my son to or do they mind
being with me? And we want I wanted to go
to the prison, but I know Tony said no prison.
Malcolm and Tunisia they was open to do it, but
I didn't. I didn't really want to travel that far
and traveling in that distance was not for me to do.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, where are they? Were there?
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Incarcerat incarcerated inn SI Huntington.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I don't remember.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
It's kind of far.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
It was cold town or something like that. So were
their upstate page?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Yes, that was quite so I couldn't do it on
the same day, so I asked him could we do zoom?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And we did zoom.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, So you brought Malcolm, did you?
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Yes, Malcolm was there and Tanisha was there. Tony wasn't
there at first. He wasn't there at either time.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So Malcolm, what was that like?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
At first? It was very emotional because for me, that
was the first time that I actually got the opportunity
to lay eyes on them as an adult. The last
time that I actually was in the same room or
spoken to either one was in nineteen ninety when I
was nine years old in court, and I never got
the opportunity to conceptualize it or even comprehended as an adult.
(11:52):
And now and as an adult, being able to see
and speak to both of them was just like a
full circle moment. He knew everything, you know, he says, Malcolm,
is good to see you. And and and this was
like Johnson, this is the gentleman who actually was in
the store, who actually fired the weapons, and amidst that
he actually did this, and it was really like wow,
(12:14):
taken back, like you know me, he knew the story,
he knew I mean, of course he knew it, but
it was just you know, he followed us, He followed us,
you know, from what we were doing, and understood where
I was, you know, doing things politically and through the community.
And he knew Tunisia. He knew Tony. He called out,
you know, Micah and Shannon, like all of us, like
it was in grant in his mind, and it was
(12:37):
just so like wow, and that really kind of threw
me through a loop. But also, I've been on this
information gathering because I was only seven years old, so
I only know the accounts that was told between the lawyers,
between the court, between the media, and then with my
own account. But again, your account is only from what
you're your perspective. You don't know the background, you don't
(13:00):
know the other side of the story. You know. Finally,
maybe in twenty eighteen, Tony, myself and Micah and Shannon,
we finally got together and gave our accounts for the
first time in thirty years. So now hearing it from
the other side of the gun, hearing him and what
he went through and his account through the day, and
he starts off and says that you know, you and
(13:21):
I was never supposed to meet. I didn't come into
that store for this. I was just getting a pineapple
soda on the hot July day. And hearing that piece
of it was just like, Okay, I can release some
of the anger or tension that was in my heart.
Because I thought they just was coming in there just
to just.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Shut up the store.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, exactly, So, Tony, you weren't able to be at
the Zoom calls, but you're certainly aware of everything that's
going on, and I wonder if you can tell us
a little bit about your own feeling. How do you
relate to all of this that's been unfolding.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
At first, when my mother brought it to my attention,
said that this is the path that she wants to
go down. At the first, I was just like, I
don't know. I don't think I really want to be
a part of it. I want to live my life,
you know. I don't want to keep bringing back and
open up the wounds again and again and again and again.
(14:16):
But it seems like every year the wounds keep open
again and again because every time we get to a milestone,
there's something that we have to do to remember that milestone.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
There's a trigger every year, right right, right.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
So then I thought about it and I was like,
you know, she's right. In order to move on, you
have to forgive, and in order to heal, you have
to forgive. So who am I to judge and who
am I not to forgive?
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Nobody.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
And then on top of that, God has already done
blessed me with my son who is named Marcus.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yes, and he looks so much like him. It's really crazy,
really spitting of rich.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Yet if I have, if anyone had never believed in reincarnation,
you need to look at my brother. I mean, look
at my son, because my son is the reincarnation of
my brother. God has given me my brother to raise
because the things that he do, the things that he say,
(15:18):
the birthmark, the stork bite from one hit one side
to the other, the wings that he has on his
back as a birthmark, I mean, these are telltale signs
of reincarnation. And when he was given to me in
my life, you know, and I'm able to raise this
(15:40):
my brother. You know, I'm now looking at this whole
thing like we need to do this. We need to
set a precedence for anyone who's been dealing with the
hurt and the pain and can't get through it, who
has the hate in their heart because of someone that's
did them wrong, but they don't know the story by
behind of the person. Yes, and then when I was
(16:03):
able to hear the story to get the idea of
what happened, what led to this. I'm looking at it
like it could have been me. It could be me now,
especially the account that Michael Gaynor has given, That could
be any one of us right now just walking and
being in the crowd. And then because I'm guilty by association,
(16:25):
now I'm doing life.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So let's talk about Michael Gaynor, Shelley. The other thing
that came out of this is your understanding that Michael
Gaynor was actually wrongfully convicted of the murder of your son.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yes, so he.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Spent these thirty plus years behind the walls of the
prison where he's incarcerated as an innocent man. Yes, And
so tell us more about that.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
So when I reached out to him and I got
finally got a chance to meet both of them. But
I just met with Michael Gaynor on Friday. I didn't
know any of this it happened because they put us
out the courtroom during that time. And so now I
found out that he was framed, that he was set up.
The leict detective that was supposed to have been really
close to my family, Paul Worel. They have a whole
story about him framing, a whole lot of young black
(17:13):
boys during the eighties, and they are sitting in jail
right now. So I said to him, Michael, I said,
I have to do whatever I can to get you free.
You should not be sitting there for thirty six years
for something you didn't do. Nobody should be in the
prison walls for thirty six years for something they didn't do.
I said, how long was your mother? She said eighty seven.
(17:35):
I said, I want to be there today that you
get out and give your mother a hug, because I
can't hug markets. But your mother's alive, and I pray
that you will get a chance to see her. And
so after he told me everything, he said, we're connected
as family. You're my family, and he thinks about everything
in nineteen eighty eight. He talks to me like he said,
(17:56):
you're my big sister. I said, okay, I'm just like
wow and everything, even with a Johnson. He talks to
me like it was that same day. He put me
right back in the place, and he gave me all
the answers that I ever waited to hear. And I
never heard any of those things until Friday. And so
(18:16):
I told him God give me that, give me strength,
and I get the people to help come behind me.
We're going to get you out of there. But I
told him I love him. I told him I'm sorry
because I didn't know. And if I knew back then,
I would have made sure that he would we would
have found the right person.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Well, you mentioned when we were talking about this previously,
that Ike, the person who admittedly pulled the trigger. When
he saw Michael Gainer, he said, that's not the guy.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, he said, but it's not him.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's not him.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And yet they went ahead and convicted him anyway, And
that's not an unfamiliar story.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
No, it's not. So many men are sitting behind bars.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
And I was looking at the exonerated series as on
a radio series, exem and then I try to contact
the da uh yes, and I left message just for them.
I haven't heard back from them, but I guess the
urgency maybe it's not as there it is for me.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I don't want him to spend another day there.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
We're creating that urgency now, you know, now that we
got the story in their account and then talking to
Michael Gainor and hearing what he has done on his side,
this is what we need to do next, because is
wrong you know, and for him to sit and steering
in prison for thirty five years, it's just unacceptable. So
we want to continue to do what we can do
(19:30):
on the outside and then what he's doing on the inside,
and using our platforms and using our resources to say, Okay,
this was our brother and we lost them. Yes, this
has happened to our family. But it also is a
duality to it, like, Okay, now we have someone who
was wrongfully convicted, so we have to get him the
justice that he deserves. So he needs to be released.
So my mom has helped reaching out to Larry Krasner.
(19:52):
I also send some emails to the District attorney office,
also send an email to the Lieutenant Governor's office to
see what we can do hopefully get the sense of
urgency in the priority place higher on this because we definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Have to do something right and just to close the circle.
There was another person who actually you believe is the shooter.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Who has passed away. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yes? He was never arrested, No, but he's passed away.
And now we have two people, one who's been isolated
from the general population. Ike because the death, the murder
of a child is the worst thing you.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Can do in prison.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Rightly, but ironically and very tellingly, right Michael Gaynor is
in the general population, He's not considered by his fellow
inmates as being that person who was the perpetrator of
this murder. And so that's a very interesting development, Tony,
what would you like to see in the best possible world.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
In the best possible world, I would love to see
Michael Gaynor be as hoonerated. I would like to see
Mike Johnson to be released. And the reason why I
say that, it's because again his two sides of every story,
and when you hear his story, all he was doing
was protecting himself.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
That's all he was doing. He was protecting himself, you know.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
And and again I sit and I think about it.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It could have been anybody, any one of us, anybody
hearing him cross the street almost getting hit by a car.
This is like and words was exchanged. Then he's in
the store and the person comes back into the store
behind him and say what did you say? And then
pull a weapon. And then now he's defending himself and
we were just casualties. And and for me, that was
(21:39):
a weight lifted, because this wasn't something between you know,
him being reckless. It was him defending himself. So the
person who was driving the car was the reckless one,
like and that person got what he deserved, still being
in the streets, street street justice prevailed on him. But
of course what he was doing was wrong. He was
in the streets and he had a weapon on them.
(22:00):
All that, but still thirty five years with self defense.
That's another thing that we look at like wow.
Speaker 6 (22:06):
Yeah, And honestly, after you get down the road, like
I said, this is thirty six years now. Yes, you
know how long you want to hold this crutch? How
long are you going to continue to have hate in
your heart? You know, just let it go.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons why some of
us are physically and mentally sick is because of unforgiveness
they have to.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Speaking to them.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
It was not only was it life changing for me,
but it was emotional liberating. I am no longer bound
up in changed on my mind. I been holding on
those change was wrapped around my mind for a long
time because I didn't get a.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Chance to grief.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
As you really know, the newspeople followed me everywhere I went.
I worried about them, boys because they had to hit
out on them. I had to travel three hours to
see them. I couldn't do half the couldn't media half
the time. Because your dad wasn't ready to deal with it.
My whole life changed and I'd just been, you know,
psychologically so bonded. I was in bondage. I'm not in
(23:08):
bondage anymore. Five years ago when I wrote him that letter,
he read that letter back to me, I tell you,
and after he said, you try to commit suicide, and
I did because I couldn't take this. Who wrote you
a letter?
Speaker 6 (23:22):
She wrote a letter to Michael Gainer, actually to both
of them, I guess, and Michael Gainor kept that letter
all the original all the original articles, and read the
letter verbatim right back to her.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
WO.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Man, you talking about touching, It's just.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
So I think we have to touch on the fact
that the media can traumatize and re traumatize over and over,
you know, first of all, bringing up the details over
and over again, being intrusive, you know, probably following you
and wanting to talk to you, and all that.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
I remember, Malcolm, I was the post a child for
stop the violence and increase the peace. We've been paraded
around Senate President Harrisburg. We've been to post the child
for this. But also what that being said is that yes,
(24:20):
the media could re traumatize us, but we've been through it.
We've been through the woods, we've been through the fire.
We can speak to truth to justice right or is
truth to power, but also be able to have solution
based conversation. Absolutely, and that's where we're at now. Where
for those who are still stuck in the trauma and angry,
we understand we want to be the mouthpiece and we
(24:41):
want to continuously be the representative to those who can't
necessarily tell their story, but also now on the road
of healing, recovery and redombant, be there for someone who
needs to be reared to a different direction, because you know,
not everyone has the Lorraine balladmoral. I told you every
time I talk to you, every time I have this conversation, regardless,
(25:03):
I'm gonna give you the flowers that you are rightfully
given because you took me from one place to change
my life.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Absolutely so, and talking that we need that how media
portrays and tells the story right as you and I know,
we're going to this sensible gun violence, how to report
gun violence. Yes, yeah, yeah, and the way that you are,
you've been telling the story, the way you've been connected
to us. We saw you saw us go from literally
from the child.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So now you're not only are you grown men, but
you're a successful grown man. I mean, you're a powerful man.
You know, you've got family, You've got love, you've you know,
it's my heart is so full just to see the
two of you, and you of course Shelley and Tunisia,
your daughter who was born nine months to the day
after Marcus, she.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Has passed away doing the same thing. She's she has
her own business as well, cause she creates wonderful.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, it's it's a beautiful thing. And it's all about
healing and forgiveness and justice. And that's what you want
to do.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
You want justice.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You want justice.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Absolutely, That's all we want is justice. We all that's
all we've been crusading for.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
We want both of them, men, release both of them,
not just one.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
There's certainly lots of folks out there who are they've
lost loved ones to gun violence, because that's Philly. You know,
there's a lot of people who've lost lost their children
and may not see the path to healing.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Absolutely, what would you say to that?
Speaker 5 (26:36):
I know we went spoke quite a different places. It's
Cheneye State, everywhere. We just was at an event that
we could go. And when I tell them that I'm
on this journey, I get those looks.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
My son could tell you.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
They give me this gasp, but like, are you crazy?
Why would you forgive those people? And I said, I'm
thirty five years in and you're just a year, a month,
couple months, And I understand how you feel.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
But I got to live my journey and I'm there
for you.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
I give them hugs and comfort and prayer and whatever
they need from me, I'll give it to them. But
I can't go back thirty five years ago. I just
got to move forward, and I got to do what
God called me to do. They have to be freed.
It's not right. Justice is justice. I'm concerned about my boys,
my daughters. Every chance I don't hear from Is that
(27:22):
because of markets, yes, but also because they're black men
in America. And I feel the pain of these mothers
who lost their children and boys and girls and whoever.
But I have to work on another avenue now. I
gotta move forward, and like he said, the other part
to this and I'm working on that part now.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Freedom.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Thank you all so much for joining us here today.
Shelley Yates Whittington, who is the mother of Marcus Yates,
who is killed over thirty five years ago, Yes, at
the age of five, in an incident that has cascaded
into a journey of healing and forgiveness for the whole family.
Shelley Yates a pastor, a teacher, and on her path
(28:07):
to forgiveness and healing. Tony Yates successful DJ A dad.
I think I saw some prom pictures of yours daughter. Gorgeous, Oh, gorgeous. Yeah,
And I just love you, know. I follow you on
Facebook and I just love seeing what a great dad
and a great husband you are.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Just a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Tony Yates and Malcolm, I feel like you know, Congress.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Senate, President, President.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Definitely the path is open for you. You're currently director
of government relations for Public Health Management Corporation. You were
seven years old when your brother was killed. Tony was eleven,
and you're all on this joint journey of forgiveness and
healing and justice. And I want to thank you so
much for taking the time with us today to share
(28:55):
your story and hopefully provide inspiration and solace to others
who might be in a similar situation. And also hopefully
there will be justice for the two men that were
convicted in the murder of five year old marcut Siets,
someone who certainly made a huge impact on my life
thirty five plus years ago.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And we want to say thank you absolutely all.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Th Thank you, Lorraine, because you didn't have to be here,
did you was there for us from day one.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
From day one?
Speaker 3 (29:21):
And I thank you and partners like.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
You and the media partners that provide their platform help
us continuously do the job help the people that's necessary
because we can't reach the ears without partners out.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Well, thank you all for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Thank you all.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
You could listen to all of today's interviews by going
to our station website and typing in keyword Community. You
can also listen on the iHeartRadio app yy Words Philadelphia
Community Podcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Lorraine Ballard.
I'm Lorraine Ballard Morrow and I stand for service to
our community and media that empowers. What will you stand for?
(29:57):
You've been listening to Insight and thank you King
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!